Guild Wars 2

“Reduced the nonsiege weapon damage reduction granted by Hardened Gates from 100% to 50%.”

Why would you ever want to bring back PvD? PvD is everything that’s wrong with WvW, as it means a large skillless blob can take everything away from small groups with no counterplay. I’ve been on both sides of PvD and it’s not fun for anyone, so I have to ask: who wanted this change?

I was a little surprised by this to, 100% was to much basically giving full damage immunity to gates, I mean we already cant damage walls with regular skills. But 50% seems like a pretty big nerf.

Cake.4920:

a large skillless blob can take everything away from small groups with no counterplay. I’ve been on both sides of PvD and it’s not fun for anyone, so I have to ask: who wanted this change?

Presumably large low-skill blobs. Welcome to WvW.

I felt hardened gates was good the way it was. The nerf encourages zerging even more. I personally thought hardened gates was fun. Nothing is worse for outnumbered defenders than successfully countering all of the attacking siege and then losing it because the attackers sit there and PvD it for a really long time. I think this will create for more boring game play because PvD is not fun.

I thought the hardened gates were fine as well. Some of the most epic moments can be earned when you and two to three others are holding a tower against an enemy zerg.

I don’t get this approach, to whom is the benfactor, I’m trying to understand if this is better for small groups who are having trouble taking a tower, and require pvd power to finish it? Or if its meant to deter defensive scouts? Or some how try to add more defensive scouts? I am trying to understand this, does anyone have any information why they made the change?

“Highly skilled” PvE arrow cart heroes who like to hide behind siege are upset, what a surprise.

As for it helping small groups, hardened gates at 100% was another example of making the gameplay worse with band-aid fixes that don’t work rather than addressing the actual issues like coverage imbalances, what “helps” a small group defend against a larger group, becomes completely broken when a large group defends.

This is great !! You can cry all you like siege huggers this is just the start…..

There are other means to accomplish the same. PvDoor should not impact a hardened gate period. You want that gate down faster? Drop another sup ram/cata

You seriously think its fun to scratch at doors? Yeah pretty epic skill bro

That is saying that your sword, bow or fire magic can destroy a iron gate if you hit enough, well, ok.

Offensive sieging has never been easier thanks to HoT. If you need PvD in order to take stuff, you’re not as skilled as you think.

If a large group is defending, if they were any good you wouldn’t be able to pvdoor anyway, so you should have no trouble taking down the gate/wall by other means.

Honestly, cannot agree with this. Gates and walls should only be destructible by siege… period. No guild upgrades. No tactics. If you want to siege a keep or castle, be prepared to fight for it, but meh, we fix one thing and break another.

Face rubbers rejoice! You can PvD whatever you want now. Anet devs must run with blobby [deleted] who enjoy that sort of thing. Removing shield generators or reducing AC damage by 15% would have been a better change but what do I know I just attack and defend in equal parts.

Nightingale.8364:

This is great !! You can cry all you like siege huggers this is just the start…..

Every time you call a defender a siege hugger I will kill 5 of your zerglings trying to get back to the blob. This is just the start.

bloodletting wolf.2837:

Nightingale.8364:

This is great !! You can cry all you like siege huggers this is just the start…..

Every time you call a defender a siege hugger I will kill 5 of your zerglings trying to get back to the blob. This is just the start.

Typical reply from a no skilled siege hugger. I dont run in blobs cause my server doesnt have them in my timezone….. you will have difficulty killing 5 “zerglings” as that is almost the entire “zerg”…

Nightingale.8364:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

Nightingale.8364:

This is great !! You can cry all you like siege huggers this is just the start…..

Every time you call a defender a siege hugger I will kill 5 of your zerglings trying to get back to the blob. This is just the start.

Typical reply from a no skilled siege hugger. I dont run in blobs cause my server doesnt have them in my timezone….. you will have difficulty killing 5 “zerglings” as that is almost the entire “zerg”…

Someone learned a new term.. your last 4 posts have included “siege hugger” Was this the secret phrase of the day from Pee Wees Playhouse or something?

people that complain about siege in objectives just want easy objectives to take IMO. EoTM has that for players just like you

Nightingale.8364:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

Nightingale.8364:

This is great !! You can cry all you like siege huggers this is just the start…..

Every time you call a defender a siege hugger I will kill 5 of your zerglings trying to get back to the blob. This is just the start.

Typical reply from a no skilled siege hugger. I dont run in blobs cause my server doesnt have them in my timezone….. you will have difficulty killing 5 “zerglings” as that is almost the entire “zerg”…

Typical reply from a commander too cheap to supply the siege required to take something.

Nightingale.8364:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

Nightingale.8364:

This is great !! You can cry all you like siege huggers this is just the start…..

Every time you call a defender a siege hugger I will kill 5 of your zerglings trying to get back to the blob. This is just the start.

Typical reply from a no skilled siege hugger. I dont run in blobs cause my server doesnt have them in my timezone….. you will have difficulty killing 5 “zerglings” as that is almost the entire “zerg”…

This reply makes no sense. If you don’t run in a huge zerg, why would you even care about hardened gates? 5 people can’t PVD a gate open in a reasonable amount of time.

Nightingale.8364:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

Nightingale.8364:

This is great !! You can cry all you like siege huggers this is just the start…..

Every time you call a defender a siege hugger I will kill 5 of your zerglings trying to get back to the blob. This is just the start.

Typical reply from a no skilled siege hugger. I dont run in blobs cause my server doesnt have them in my timezone….. you will have difficulty killing 5 “zerglings” as that is almost the entire “zerg”…

What server and time zone do you play? I will come show you how to not face rub an objective to feel good about yourself. For the record I kill zerglings all the time trying to run back to their precious pin trying to get a worthless champ bag.

Nightingale.8364:

This is great !! You can cry all you like siege huggers this is just the start…..

I am curious. Why do you play a siege based game mode if you don’t like siege?

Wouldn’t sPvP be a better fit for this mindset?

Nightingale.8364:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

Nightingale.8364:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

Nightingale.8364:

This is great !! You can cry all you like siege huggers this is just the start…..

Every time you call a defender a siege hugger I will kill 5 of your zerglings trying to get back to the blob. This is just the start.

Typical reply from a no skilled siege hugger. I dont run in blobs cause my server doesnt have them in my timezone….. you will have difficulty killing 5 “zerglings” as that is almost the entire “zerg”…

What server and time zone do you play? I will come show you how to not face rub an objective to feel good about yourself. For the record I kill zerglings all the time trying to run back to their precious pin trying to get a worthless champ bag.

I think your mom would be reading you bedtime stories in the timezone I play, maybe if you ask her nice she will let you stay up late?

I work 50-60 hours a week. I’m pretty sure that my mom would laugh at your thinly veiled attacks at me instead of discussing the subject at hand. Maybe you should call your mom and talk about it.

Apparently if you post a message like this: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Time-to-nerf-some-Guild-Buffs-Scribing/first#post6180122

On the forums and start with: I’M A COMMANDER AND I’VE BEEN PLAYING SINCE THE START AND ME AND EVERYYYYYYYYYONE ELSE I PLAY WITH WANTS TO PVD EVERYTHING CAUSE WE FIND IT FUN.

And then you get all ur friends to come on the forums and like it…
Then they will listen and fix it for you. SO you know….maybe I’ll start doing that too. Forget logic, forget common sense. Whining = winning when it comes to anet these days…..a sad day indeed. There isn’t going to be a gamemode left if you keep doing things for the sake of fun…..speaking of fun you went out of ur way to prevent transformations while using banners. THAT WAS MY DEFINITION OF FUN AND NOW ITS GONE. Taking away fun for the sake of being mean, and adding fun for the sake of ruining game mechanics……its not really a good policy. If ur transformed while using a banner ur easier to kill…ALOT easier to kill…it was there for fun….it doesn’t ruin or affect anything in a negative way.

On a very serious note: I would very much be interested in the REASONING they used for justifying this massive change. I mean 100 to 50%!?!??!?!?!! I can’t see any rationale at all other than the one I outlined at the start….please enlighten me anet as to the ‘real’ reason….cause all I can see is the reason i came up with above. There is no justification for this at all even when it comes to encouraging smaller groups sieges.

CHOOO CHOOOOOOOO the karma train empire wins yet again!

I don’t think I have ever heard or read anyone comment on the hardened gates in a bad way. If anything it gives the less populated a chance to stave off a larger force. Now we are going to be back to big forces just powering down gates.

Well the skill floor just dropped again in wvw. Pretty soon all you’ll ever need is to have more numbers pressing 1.

Oh wait.

Do people really spend their time on stuff like pvdooring a fortified gate? I can generally think of better things to waste my life on.

Anyhow, the change seems a bit random.

Straegen.2938:

I don’t think I have ever heard or read anyone comment on the hardened gates in a bad way. If anything it gives the less populated a chance to stave off a larger force. Now we are going to be back to big forces just powering down gates.

Bigger forces have no issue with powering down anything really.

It only takes a few minutes for a 30+ zerg to drop 5 – 7 sup catas and drop walls before anyone can respond.

By the time the commander has a chance to get the defense core to the objective, that zerg has usually breached already and cleared the siege. You might catch them at the inner of a keep, but most of the time it is the melee combat that pushes them out, certainly not the defensive siege because the walls are death traps.

Time is precious in WvW and small groups on low population servers have gross amounts of it.

If I had to make a guess, its probably to get people to use Invulnerable fortifications more often to replace emergency waypoints as a tactivator option.

X T D.6458:

If I had to make a guess, its probably to get people to use Invulnerable fortifications more often to replace emergency waypoints as a tactivator option.

Not gonna happen

Deli.1302:

X T D.6458:

If I had to make a guess, its probably to get people to use Invulnerable fortifications more often to replace emergency waypoints as a tactivator option.

Not gonna happen

If it was a tier 1 tactivator, it might be more useful to replace chilling fog. Otherwise I am not really sure why this change was made. I mean I can understand reducing it from 100%, but halving it seems a bit much.

What? Why? I simply cannot understand the reason behind this unless it is only to reduce the scribing cost at the expensive of the buff which seems redundant anyway.

Hardened Gates isn’t the problem, players have been asking for years for a way to help put a stop into the ktrains and PvD’s. It was a step into the right direction to add such feature, even if in form of a guild buff.

Please revise the Hardened Gates change and take a look into the Shield Generator which is the problematic one currently.

Why???

Stupid change.

I agree with almost everyone here (certainly the mature players) that we really didn’t need hardened gates reducing from negating 100% to 50% player damage.

I understand hardened siege took forever to take out without a ballista and it was a bit much but hardened gates was the only thing driving away the blobs my server faced. Now they know that even if their Rams are destroyed they can sit there spamming necromancer marks, elementalist meteors and lava fonts on the walls while everyone else eventually brings the door down.

Please revert hardened gates to 100% negation of player damage.

If anything,they should make these immune to non siege damage.

These siege huggers should be happier, not angry. Now your ACs will be able to farm people who try to PvD thinking the 50% damage reduction is easy mode. The hardened t3 gate is best bait for AC heroes.

SkyShroud.2865:

That is saying that your sword, bow or fire magic can destroy a iron gate if you hit enough, well, ok.

If you hit cast iron hard enough it shatters like glass.
If you heat it with fire it melts.
If you shot enough arrows at it, it would erode.

LetoII.3782:

SkyShroud.2865:

That is saying that your sword, bow or fire magic can destroy a iron gate if you hit enough, well, ok.

If you hit cast iron hard enough it shatters like glass.
If you heat it with fire it melts.
If you shot enough arrows at it, it would erode.

I’d like to see the size of the quivers needed to hold that many arrows…Rangers better have good chiropractic insurance…

Coverage is your problem, not PvD.

I think the expectation that 3 or 4 few players should be able to stop a “large skilless blob” is unrealistic and the developers should not build overpowered defences to facilitate this.

If you had proper coverage (say 30 people?) then you should be able to come out and wipe the “large skilless blob” off the door.

You need to post about the match up algorithms instead so they optimise the coverage for each skirmish.

This change is so lame and only promotes PvD. There are plenty of ways to get in a keep specially with all the ‘broken’ cata splash damage spots that this really was not needed. Now its again just “the biggest blob wins”

WvW has some strategy in it, play with it. For example let main group keep defenders busy while you let a small team break an other gate/wall and then take it. Do not degrade WvW down to “just attack a door” for 5-10 min with a mega blob (again).

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

I think the expectation that 3 or 4 few players should be able to stop a “large skilless blob” is unrealistic and the developers should not build overpowered defences to facilitate this.

I don’t think 5 people should be able to defend against 30+, but the 30+ should do it with actual siege, not autoattacking a gate.

If the 30+ can only get the gate down via PvDoor, there’s either something wrong with them (aka, they’re baddies), or there’s something wrong with siege wars that drastically tilts the game in favor of the defenders. The latter is very untrue, especially since HoT, but even if it was, finding out that problem and fixing it is a much better idea than allowing PvDoor again.

Basically, if a group can’t take down a gate/wall via regular means, why should they be allowed to PvDoor it down?

Just another reason to not come back in game….
This upgrade is now totally useless…. Hardened gates should be by default on T3 without any guild upgrade, and now they nerf it… srsly ?

PvD is love, PvD is life.

Heimlich.3065:

Cake.4920:

a large skillless blob can take everything away from small groups with no counterplay. I’ve been on both sides of PvD and it’s not fun for anyone, so I have to ask: who wanted this change?

Presumably large low-skill blobs. Welcome to WvW.

Some guild leader was posting about it last week, moaning that t3 took too long to flip and they couldn’t just facerub the doors down.

Guess he got what he wanted, now they can run their 30 or 40 man guild blob up to a door and not have to worry about pesky things like skill or tactics, just spam 1 until the door has melted.

Bad change, catering to the low skilled insta karma train types.

I think gates should have permanent retaliation. Bring the DvP to PvD!

What is with all these low skill PvE players trying to bring PvE into WvW. Find some friends, get some skill, go out off your siege and fight your attackers.

My guess is that BG/ET voted for the PvD change as they can out vote everyone else.

ITT: people pretend that siege wars involves actual strategy.

Scouts should not be able to completely stop assault with bigger numbers. Scouts should be able to slow assault for enough time to gather same numbers to defend objective. So update is good.

Coldtart.4785:

ITT: people pretend that siege wars involves actual strategy.

I’m pretty sure there is more strategy involved in setting up defensive siege in spots where it will be effective and wont instantly be destroyed by zerg aoe, and knowing how to launch an attack on a defended structure using terrain, counter siege and long range siege, rather than just blobbing up and auto attacking a gate.

Ultra Hades.4691:

What is with all these low skill PvE players trying to bring PvE into WvW. Find some friends, get some skill, go out off your siege and fight your attackers.

sounds like you never defended anything.. defenders are becoming rare and usually its a few people defending against a larger force, buying time, till more show up to help if any even come. i’d like to see you jump out of a tower against a group 2 to 3 times your size. you seem to be a pro wvw so i’m guessing you’d be able to defend something and kill a zerg all by yourself with no siege..

also how is defending your stuff considered pve? are npcs or the environment attacking the towers? no its players

I find it rather unfortunate …

It facilitates the direct assault of the doors by a zerg and it seems to diminish interest to organize the siege: choice of a place to build machines, organisation of the supply line to feed that place (specially against guerilla tactics of harassment in case of a low number opponent), and its defense against the counter attack…

This seems to reduce the substance of the game in its strategic side.

chefdiablo.6791:

Bigger forces have no issue with powering down anything really.

It only takes a few minutes for a 30+ zerg to drop 5 – 7 sup catas and drop walls before anyone can respond.

I have used disablers and siege to completely frustrate zergs on numerous occasions. Now big zergs will pound on the gate between disablers until it drops just like they used to.

As the OP noted, this is a “fix” that wasn’t needed or asked for best I can tell.