Guild Wars 2

Im Basically at my wits end with this havoc group setup and I want to know what other people often run. We usually have 5-8 players and our main 5 group is Warrior, Guard, Engi, Thief and Ele. Builds are:

Engi – http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQFAUlUUpErlcxdLseNCbBNyx0GR2xq85DEgkC-T1SDABvp+TPKx4+CAcwBEIBlgVcgA6S5BP7PAnOCAMxJxDAgUAwsFA-w

Guard – http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQJASWlsApVo1CxYI8DNRCRl9M8fBI2fQIkCXFAA-TRTDABO8AA6UlieUiNj6KPpsIBlgVpUIEdAMt/wAHBAAMxJxlAIFNBkCIixAA-e

Warrior – http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fJAQNBiYDbkpjyO7CxxDORDUFUoX8HIAUeDNeyN4FA-TFCHABveBAA4gAoy+D9p+zTKBBS5XY6eG4JAEAAB4m3Mb2mBH9oH9oH9odzbezbezbWKAmUGB-w

Thief – http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAsYVlsMp0pdPx3J8PNBNh4d4vl1KQ3RL2E-TlDEABaqCxiqMQwDAwgTAATKT6SJoUKNYRNgmUC1h+gc2fAgjAwDHCAXUFhQACmAA-w

Ele – http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fFAQJAoYhcM6cW4wxBf0APAC5fv2JKQ5qJfC-TFSHAB4pEkj9HISpXQKDWU9nCeQAgpnAgTIQAAEgbWnBduzgMALbB-w

We get rolled over every fight even in 5v3’s sometimes and it’s kitten embarrassing. Should our builds be devoted to DPS and less sustain, armor, condi removal and cc ? Im very interested in feedback toward warrior (stun worth having at all? shout heals better? Straight dps?), guard (passive healing worth having? Medi better? medi doesnt offer much to the party), I think Ele is decent as is cause it does good dps and drops good burst heals, Engi get focus fired right through our melee and goes down first always but we also cant down someone with our 4 ppl while he gear shields, Thief seems ok to me but i don’t play thief, is that build ok?

We basically roam the map flipping camps, towers, keeps if the main blob is distracted and take on other groups or tail end of zergs but we literally lose matched fights 80% of the time. Any help would be appreciated because we have fun playing together but its frustrating and bad for our servers points if we die EVERY time.

TLDR: theres the builds to our average Havoc group, We get REKT like 80% of the time, is this a build problem or a l2p situation? Might be a bit of both.

I will try to help but this is might long post. I understand ur problem coz “Havoc” itself is somewhat new term for GW2 even thou GW2 age is old enough. Famous PVP Game mode in GW2 are only Zerging, Solo roaming and SPVP. Not many people like 5man squad compared those game Modes.

Ok let’s start…
1. Choose ur ROLE
RPG game has 3 Roles, Tank – Support/ Utility – Hitter/ Carry.
Tank = A role that has really nice DEF but weak ATK. Their job is to take enemy attention and eat damage from enemy important CD.
Support/Utility = Support. Having support will make thing easier. Like healing or set up kill. So u can kill faster and Live longer
Carry/ DPS/ Hitter =A Role that has highest offensive stat but in exchange of weak DEF. Their role is to KILL. This is teamfight. Not SPVP Room where u can win without killing. U win if u kill. U win if all of ur enemies are DEAD.

2. Balance Ur role
U already pick the Role? Then balance it. Get a fair amount of Carry – Tank – Support in ur team.
All Tank = No damage. Enemy can kite you then u will die eventually
All Carries = Bunch of Squisies. 1x CC will kill them.
All Support = Support needs Carry and Tank to work =="

Every role has risk.
Carry = Always get focused fire. If u are dead = Ur team lose DPS and somewhat Carry always easy target coz they have less Armor.
Tank = Being ignored all the time. U are tanky but u deal no damage alone.
Support = If u got Bad Tank and Bad Carry. Nothing much u can do to make ur Team win.

To counter that risk normally people become hybrid. Tank needs some damage and Carry needs some DEF.
There’s also additional role called “Bruiser” u are half Carry and Half Tank. This good for flexible playstyle.

3. No best Team Comp
GW2 is really flexible aka Every class can choose any role he/she wants. There’s no best Team comp. It’s how u play ur team.

4. Checking ur Friends Class.
Enginer = Standard Nades. AOE damager. Very strong vs Downies. Soso when there’s no Downies. Enginer problem in team fight is lack of stun break so ur enemy gonna abuse it. They will chase ur enginer until he die. If he squishy. Then it becomes easier.

Thief = A nice duelist role. Insane single target damage. But i dunno how to utilize Sword MH in Team fight. Coz spamming #1 won’t make a kill in team fight. Thief weakness is AOE. So when u are fighting outnumbered and there’s tons of Red circle from enemy side. Ur thief performance will go down = Less damage from ur Team.

Guardian = Stab share is really important for team fight. This class is slow, can’t chase, all damage is PB AOE. GOt countered badly by HIGH Mobility Enemies. But it still have price for team fight coz Stab Sharing. Also Staff Empower is good to strengthen ur damage. A nice Support Role and somewhat flexible to mix with other Role.

Warrior = Hammer Stun!! Role is to stun enemies to make easier to kill or peeling ur allies. Selfish playstyle but i find it’s good to keep pressure at enemy side.

DD EL = The Swiss ARMY knife of GW2. Can be played to any Role. Nice mobility, Nice gap closer, Not boring playstyle, Etc etc. This class has so many potential to bring to team fight. this class is weak at begining of the fight coz no Might. But when got might. Started to shine.

5. Countering Mechanic for ur friends
Counter mechanic is basically a mechanic that gonna put ur friend/ team to disadvantage. It’s normal in team fight to abuse enemy weak point so u can win easier.
- Engine doesn’;t have Stun BReak and squishy
Enemy will aim at ur Engine. If ur engine is down u might want to protect him/her with ur Theif house to cancel the stomp. Coz stability can ensure a safe stomp vs Engine.
- Thief is weak vs AOE damage
Coz Thief is melee. Depending on his heal/ Armor how long he can endure the AOE damage.
- Warrior Hammer countered by Stability
Standard counter mechanic. But Warrior can ensure set up kill with Sword F1 immob
- DD EL somewhat a Safe pick. No counter but boon removal will lwoer their damage.

If u still need more advice. Feel free to ask. You can also check my Youtube Channel. Normally i do teamfight with my friends. Thou lately i only do 4Members max. Rarely can get 5man T_T

Change to: 1 guard, 1 warrior, 1 mesmer, 1 thief and then 1 extra. You need more healing in your group. Maybe a good D/D ele can fill that role but an engi can do well too.

You need a healthy mix of bunker and dps roles in a small group with enough sustain to pick up your downed players and enough escape to get away when things go south

So, Nevhie posted one of the two possible ways to successfully havoc. Group como is often important, but sometimes, you don’t necessarily need to fill the roles. The havoc groups I run in, we are mostly roaming builds with mild tweaks to give out a bit more group support. Understanding your class in a solo scenario is invaluable for personal sustain in a group fight. If every class can self sustain while giving off passive AoE heals, your group will be putting out a lot of DPS.
Things such as ApE stability, area projectile deflection/block, in combat field blasts are things you should be focusing on coordinating in your group more so than class and build. Having a roaning build with self-support that has some group boons and healing, as well as good dps is how your havoc group will excel. If you cannot win most 1v1s, you will have a lot of work. If you cannot solo a tower, you will have a lot of work.
Other things to focus on: calling a target. AoEing the target rather than single target damage. Group boons.
Group composition is one way to go and is best for heavily outmanned fighting. My way is easier and allows you to break into solo when ur group disbands
To touch on what reverence said, a D/D ele is VERY useful for the extra aoe boons while maintaining high AoE burst and AoE heals. Engi is also good. I wouldn’t recommend thief in that group personally. I am a main thief, but they lose usefulness with larger groups.

Experience: Havoced since launch. Successfully done 1v5, 2v17, and countless 5v15+.

Edit: NO ZERKER!!! Zerk builds are only for PvE. I didn’t have time to look at your builds because my phone is wierd with links, but never have any zerker.
Also, AoE Condi cleanse is very, VERY important when fighting 5v5!!!

Leader in PRAE, the biggest roaming guild on SoS, ill give some tips. First you need to decide if you want your group to be agile or not, it sucks getting run over by zergs constantly if you are using slow classes. Your running a staff/hammer gaurdian so thats about as slow as it gets. Group stability isn’t important in roaming at all, however if your going slow group condi clear can be important. If your going staff on gaurdian id pick up AH for that group healing, its too good to pass up, period. Hollowed ground is bad, switch for purging flames if anything.

Cele stats are great in pvp, and less great in wvw, not enough spike damage at all. The thing about d/d ele’s is they are geat for the aoe damage and some group support but they dont provide the spike damage needed, and they are still weak vs spike.

That engi build kinda just looks like an easy kill, maybe switch to a full condi build to do more damage and be tankier, same thing tho engis cant hit for 10k+ if your using cele stuff.

Warrior hammer is very slow, often too slow for havoc fights, warrior greatsword is incredibly quick and good damage still. Both killshot and evis do the spike damage you need and if your running a super glassy warrior im not sure why your not setting up for either of those. I’d still probably run warbanner also.

General tips, even if your running a group with support guardian, you might wanna run builds that just tank up really well, and it seems like your running support guardian with glassy stuff which doesn’t make too much sense. If you wanna run support guardian in your comp, practice shadow refuge to retreat or your gonna get run over. All havoc groups need SPIKE damage, people hitting for 10k+ within a second, you know how you even the odds of an outnumbered fight? Kill 1-2 people super quick.

tldr: AH on gaurdian, id take greatsword>hammer, greatsword/rifle or greatsword,axe/shield for warrior and get warbanner, ditch the engi or make them go full dire condi perplex maybe swap in a necro instead, keep the thief thats fine, d/d ele is alright, maybe swap that out for something tankier also if your using a support guardian. practice spiking people down and killing them out of stealth, blast stealths with thief shortbow and engi smokefield or just start fights with shadow refuge.

4 lb rangers and a venom share thief…

Ty for all the feedback guys, its nice to be able to talk this out cause I was literally pulling my hair out trying to get this to work. From what has been said this is what i’m taking or have questions on…

Warrior: – Not tanky enough for hammer and hammer < GS burst/mobility? It does have 3k toughness. I thought 3k toughness was enough but its 2.3k power made it hit hard too.

- We have to run X/Horn for perma swiftness for group + a blast finisher

– should I swap zerk on warrior for say, knights? Or more important to stay zerk but go GS + Axe/Horn for evis focus fires?

- Our warrior runs SoR elite because “I need the might” i say thats bs. I will make him swap for banner cause it can turn a fight.

Guardian: This class seems to make and break us…The group stab + toughness is heavenly and when we don’t have it then its noticeable. Our guard has played for over 2 years roaming, he’s very comfortable in w/e we put him in. It just seems that we cant nail down a good trait setup for this profession. NEED HELP HERE MOST

- worth being shout at all? I can knights armor/zerk trinkets medi guard all over someones face in 5-8 secs from 100-0 but that 1 of the 5 ppl coming at us and then im on CD. =/

-Change Hammer to GS? (i hate hammer but was using it for Blast Finisher, Banish to deny stomp and RoW to deny area’s. GS can clump enemies and good AoE)

-Then the golden question, staff worth having? I see alot of havoc groups have a guard with hammer/GS. idk if they shout or medi with this. Our guard says they prob running jinnpa build.

- Armor…I just don’t know. Guild leader wanted some dmg but 3k toughness (with strength in numbers it is). Should it be all cleric for heals? all solider for tank? so many options and i don’t have to gold to test them all.

- Utilities – Shouts seem to work well but im good with medi guard dps burst too. Im slow but group has perma swiftness. I will swap HG to SY or PF.

- Traits – AH was said should be taken for heals, I was under the impression it only healed me? Also is Absolute resolution worth having? PoV + Trooper runes good from this kinda setup? the group condi clear’s seem to work nice but its also not great to waste amazing utility skills for a simple condi clear.

Elementalist: The build works and there’s no feedback on this class. Our elementalist often do their job well group healing and applying boons. They have no problem stacking might.

Engineer: You guys are saying Condi tank > Celestial? we were using celestial for downed poison (dont happen often, cause he goes down b4 this. albeit the thief does SR him), group heals (water fields) and condi clear on EG.

- im genuinely afraid to tell our engi to rebuy the sigil of torment he just sold cause he’s a rash guy xD

- one guy said replace engi with necro. I was under the impression necro suffered from lack of mobility and was focus fired to great effect than engi

Thief: Our thief is used for SR heals on downed, SR disengages and focus fire. He does die alot and I don’t thief so Idk about the build. Is S/D not typical for a havoc thief? can someone link a build they would use to havoc with?

- Some mentioned staying away from thief because they to squishy for small scale fights. Sometimes we run with a mesmer instead but often thief. I do find they go down alot in 5v2-3 (in our favor) but I assumed it was a l2p issue cause they dont hit and run (he’s still learning thief tactics)

Other notes: we are training a new driver atm and some calls are questionable. Thats fine and we do wipe because of him probably 10%-20% of the time but it apart of learning. other 60%-70% of the time it’s our build composition or lack of dps or lack of defense for our squishier guys.

TY for all your help so far but I need some more help with the stuff above. I gotta hammer out a decent build composition for this main 5 man group. Main spots is Guardian (seems to be the pillar of this whole group along with ele) and Warrior (you guys were more concerned with the build than I was so something must be up)

The stats on the warrior are pretty good. If your friend really wants to run hammer, I would recommend to put the Intelligence sigil on the hammer. Hammer is a slow weapon and it benefits from the int sigil because it has 3 hard hitting attacks, #2 + #5 + F1.

I don’t really see the point in using bulls charge with his weapon combo. It is still buggy and mainly used for hundred blades.

As far as the guardian is concerned, I would ditch hallowed ground for save yourselves or purging flames. SY is one of the strongest utility skills in the game and purging flames removes 3 conditions upon entering, where as for hallowed ground you have to stay inside the circle to get the full benefit. GS/staff is great.

Redid the warrior build. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fJAQNBiODbkpjqQ7CxxD6QDUFUoX8HIAUeENeyQ4FA-TVCBABd8AAw4CAI0+DQcQAqU9nzUCilyPAOCA5p7JAACwNvZYzgje0je0je0u5Nv5Nv5NLFATKjA-w

Warriors main problems were being condi bombed or put in a stun dps train so 2 stances fix this problem cause when it happens no amount of healing will save him. Also kept his Dolyak sig cause it gives same amount of stab as balanced stance and he wants the 3k toughness. Took banner and swapped some sigils to intel/Leeching on hammer and Accuracy (unsure but more crit on axe seems good for evis and AA plus 2x intel will overlap with fast swapping) and Air. Swapped 2 traits to vigor on stance use and more dmg per boon. Any feedback on this warrior build? also about my previous comment with a bunch of questions. Mostly related to Guardian.

Also, thinking about keeping 1h sword instead of axe. Evis is nice but we use the adrenaline for earthshaker most of the time. Plus Final thrust can b OP at times and sword has more mobility to stick on target but at a loss of AA dmg compared to axe.

Think outside of the box, you don’t have to fit into the meta. Everyone should just run the class and the build they are most comfortable with, but still try to keep the group synergy in mind. My group is built to be mobile, hit and run style, so taking classes that are slow or have no escapes is a no go (or they will just get sacrificed for the greater good). Build your group setup smartly and plan ahead.

Knowing when to engage and when to run away is important, but the ress managment and stomp duty are key things in succesful roaming as well. Also calling certain skills out in TS such as knockbacks, immob, downstates, who is going for a stomp and so on helps a lot. Try recording your fights, it’s easier to spot what you need to improve that way too.

It also helps if your teammates roam solo time to time (you could even try dueling each other in spvp), this way they can learn to balance out their own builds, find the weaknessess, balance their stats, which skills/traits works best for them. By doing this they will learn to be more aware of their surroundings and they will be less likely end up doing stupid things.

Support:
– Clerics Staff Ele – http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFAQFAWhMM6cW9wyBf0AiAB5skqRBlnHTB-T1RDAB4o+jhKBr4BAklyPAuAA0s/QK6AIDAzWA-w
– Staff/Hammer Shout Guard – http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQJAWSlsApVo1CxXI8DNRCRl9M8fBI2fwJkCXFAA-T1CEABaq+CDHBgnUSYwDAoJlb4oCRH6CSa/BAuEADYCqBlgkCgJlRA-w

Damage:
– Destroyer Warrior – http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fJAQNAneRjMdUGaVIehQHagqgC9iHANgyjoxTuBfAA-TlCEABaq+DDPAgU0H8kSDDOCANpMDgTBwAmgaQJYM7PEAABghO0duzdmUAMJMC-w
– S/D Thief – http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAV8Yl0Mp0plPx7J8PRBNhwXNvD/tsWB6LKA-TVCEABaq+DBHBADeAANp8Ln9H6Q3wAmgA4iA0gSQCBIYLA-w
– Shatter Mesmer – http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAR8flknpMtNqxWNcrNSrxg6wOrMSGQBlciqB-TlCEABaq+zTKFM4JAIlSimUm1huhc2fAgLCwAmgaQJYAAEAu5O35O3ZSBonwI-w

I suggest to rethink your team. You need tons of mobility, cc. Venom share d/p thief is a monster in a 5 men team. I also suggest analyze for the engi because there are a lot of thievs/mesmers out of there. For the warrior use something gs/axe-shield and maybe with bola and/or bulls charge. Gua should be medi guard and for the ele i suggest dd cele

Honestly it’s more about team chemistry than anything. I’ve been small group roaming with the same players for around a year now, and I couldn’t ask for anyone better. We all been playing with each other for so long. We know our strengths and weaknesses, how each of us are going to react and we just mesh well together.

As long as you have the basic roles covered (support, dps, and etc), you do just fine. It just takes sometime to really build group synergy. When it comes to comps it depends. Ideally we like to run; two support guards, shatter mesmer, power necro, and a dd ele. However, this doesn’t always happen and we run many other comps too.

For example, last night we ran a comp that probably wasn’t really ideal, two support guards, dd ele, thief, and warrior. The damage was lacking, however we still got the job done.

Just keep at it! Not enough small groups imo.

You don’t need much damage Run every class as tanky as can be & coordinate your spikes in TS. Your thief is your snare and with the amount of regen you can stack onto Stealth not to mention the 1/2 damage while Stealthed trait. I’d go opposite of almost every build anyone will mention and go VIT/Healing Power/Cond Dam on a thief & use him for fat regen/group stealth/snare.

Stop being lamer, buy berserker armors.

Have your gurdian run more of a support role than dps. Have him try running something like this. He won’t be hitting hard but he’ll be keeping everyone in the party alive and able to stomp/revive people. You can switch out GS for hammer if you want.

Also, conditions are a lot stronger for small man groups. Having a condition necro helps a lot, but they have to know what they are doing because they will be focused first.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQJARWlsApWotCxfH8DNRCRldREg/H2fQIkCXFAA-TFSDwAZV6FVZgedB4U/h5+DKUCC4QAI5JAQKAmUGB-w

Here’s a video of me running the build, I do have more dps gear on, but the clerics gear is a good way to start and get a feel for just trying to support your team.

Harbinger.8637:

Turn camera shake off man.

McWolfy.5924:

I suggest to rethink your team. You need tons of mobility, cc. Venom share d/p thief is a monster in a 5 men team. I also suggest analyze for the engi because there are a lot of thievs/mesmers out of there. For the warrior use something gs/axe-shield and maybe with bola and/or bulls charge. Gua should be medi guard and for the ele i suggest dd cele

If you use up utility slots for Venoms, it would be better to use up those slots up with better utilities, even if it helps to keep you alive – for your own sake.

If you want good burst, DPS, Group Stealth and CC, play 6/0/2/0/6. – Panic Strike/Trickery D/P. All without gimping your survivability, just for a gimmick that works okay in as small groups.

Dueling is good practice to some degree, but they are playing different builds for running solo. You can’t duel or solo roam with venom share, you will get rekt.

Havoc is for skilless chumps!

Ok ty for all your help guys. Im done changing the builds around now. We Havoc’d last night and cleaned up in a 5v8, 5v5, 5v zerg tail and a couple 5v4’s. I appreciate all the help I got from the community. Main changes was swapping engi to condi tank, Guardian to full support tank (nomad’s/Cleric +Hammer/Staff with shouts), Warrior build is above, Thief is a bit more tanky with venom share + SR, Cele Ele is listed above and we have a shatter mesmer. So much easier to engage with engi stealth field and only people that can go down kinda fast is our mesmer/Ele but with SR and guardian traited rezz it’s not a problem. My guild also sends its regards to the forum community as they are know having fun playing havoc.

1 D/D Ele
1 Support Guard
All Zerker glass focused on Escape and Mobility.

We do fine just enough.

People who say no zerker, i question. Seriously. /cough PRAE.

Havoc groups are about mobility. Hit and run. Get in, get out. You can trail the zerg and eventually whipe them. You can ambush other groups.

But mainly, out of everything that has been said… Harbringer is correct – the more you play together, the more it becomes instinctual. This is just Time factor.

And no, at that level, you do not need voice-coms…. most of the time its just laughing at that point (at your teammates getting downed or some other silly bs) Our guys rarely run w/ voice. Property target management and focus is all that matters.

Group Dynamics & Build make up only really matter when you start doing 15 vs 30’s and there’s just soooo much aoe spam that the GWEN really changes the game and allow you to eat up that much spam.

Amins.3710:

Havoc groups are about mobility. Hit and run. Get in, get out. You can trail the zerg and eventually whipe them. You can ambush other groups.

I think we have diff meaning of Havoc? Ur desc is “Ganker(s)” for me. Havoc is small group that fliping Camp and maybe Tower or Keep if possible and defending stuff. Havoc will force enemy main zerg to make decision like “Should i send 5man to kill 5 enemy Havoc?” Or “Should i send main force to wipe them” when Havoc fliping Camp/ Tower.

Fighting over objective is like SPVP. U need to Cap and sometimes it worse coz u are “Forced” to play in small place like Inside a Tower/ tight place which bring huge disadvantage to Squishy and give advantage to melee cleave.

Nevhie.6079:

Amins.3710:

Havoc groups are about mobility. Hit and run. Get in, get out. You can trail the zerg and eventually whipe them. You can ambush other groups.

I think we have diff meaning of Havoc.

No, you have the definition of Havoc correct.

Another thing about havoc groups that should be mentioned is that IF you opt for having a dedicated healer, then make the group tanky, if not that healer will not heal fast enough, not enough hp and most importantly, if you got slippery squishies, they will just nuke the healer and then kill the ones who cannot sustain themselves.

Prysin.8542:

Another thing about havoc groups that should be mentioned is that IF you opt for having a dedicated healer, then make the group tanky, if not that healer will not heal fast enough, not enough hp and most importantly, if you got slippery squishies, they will just nuke the healer and then kill the ones who cannot sustain themselves.

At least in NA this isn’t so.

The biggest threat to my damage dealers is CC (chill, immobilize, stun, etc). So when building for support, condition removal is paramount with outright damage denial from blocks and blinds rather than recovery (actual healing). So long as they are kept mobile most classes/builds have ways to manage their own health pool… Untill we end up in a GWEN-type area control slugfest.

AOE condi removal is easy, chill immob, stun, fear, KD/KB is easy too.

To get all of that:
Ranger (MT + Entangle + Alpine Wolf + Wolf)
Guard with hammer
Shout warr with hammer an axe/sword + Warhorn

There you go, massive condi removal + CC. Add a thief for blindfield spam and perhaps venoms for lulz (more chill, stun and immob).

one of the reasons i love gw2 that players cannot be DIVIDED BY ROLES.

“I heal i heal i heal”
“i tank tank tank”
that stupid structure is in another games, go play wow dungeuons for it

for engi build, try going with elixir S if he gets focused so hard

ele, thief builds are good.
for guardian u can just take normal raiding build and it will work fine, especially change hallowed ground to purging flames or wall of relfection – situationally.

war should go shoutheal or dps normal war with 60206 or 20606
try to coordinate your cc and dps chains together.

Map awarness is your friend.
Try to pick a good fights where u have escapes.
Use terrain smart.
Don’t go straight forward on larger groups in open field.
0 downstate must stay long on ground, so res/stomp ASAP.

Play some pvp together, not a bad comp for that, tbh

Hvaran.6327:

one of the reasons i love gw2 that players cannot be DIVIDED BY ROLES.

“I heal i heal i heal”
“i tank tank tank”
that stupid structure is in another games, go play wow dungeuons for it

for engi build, try going with elixir S if he gets focused so hard

ele, thief builds are good.
for guardian u can just take normal raiding build and it will work fine, especially change hallowed ground to purging flames or wall of relfection – situationally.

war should go shoutheal or dps normal war with 60206 or 20606
try to coordinate your cc and dps chains together.

Map awarness is your friend.
Try to pick a good fights where u have escapes.
Use terrain smart.
Don’t go straight forward on larger groups in open field.
0 downstate must stay long on ground, so res/stomp ASAP.

Play some pvp together, not a bad comp for that, tbh

Depending on group size, once over 8-10 players you should consider taking a banner regen warrior or regen spirit ranger. Both offer revives, both can grant unique buffs (i run cleric on either if i use those builds. warrior is 00464 and ranger is 00365). Both can deal medium damage (hammer F1/Maul with intelligence sigil hits for around 4-5k on a cele ele).
The ranger can provide burning on attack, protection on attack, flat out 10% more damage (do not be fooled, the frost spirit has been fixed and is once again 70% chance on EVERY attack to deal 10% more damage. That is a lot over time)
Warrior got flat stat boosts, which can be very nice. different banners also give different boons from their “banner skills”. In terms of CC, regen spirit ranger and warrior is almost tied. Warrior got shorter durations but shorter CD<s, while ranger got longer durations and longer CDs. Warrior can give stuns and KB/KD while ranger specializes in AOE immob, chill, cripple etc…

i agree “size matters” ( that’s what she said).
composition basically tied to size and avaliable classes, cause u don’t want player that never played engi, on engi in your havoc group for sure.

banner regen, quit tricky build for havoc, i would say shout heal>banner regen, because of it’s condi cleanse ablities, mobility and boons that they give.

Hvaran.6327:

i agree “size matters” ( that’s what she said).
composition basically tied to size and avaliable classes, cause u don’t want player that never played engi, on engi in your havoc group for sure.

banner regen, quit tricky build for havoc, i would say shout heal>banner regen, because of it’s condi cleanse ablities, mobility and boons that they give.

Most ideal is to have one of each. Banner regen is there to lessen the need for non critical hp maintenance. Example, aoe chewing away 4-5k very slowly, thus heal is needed, then you get spiked by meteor shower + frostbow 3 sec later. Regen help you power through slow pulsing aoe, such as necro wells, lava font or simply reduce the impact of condition ticks.

You still need a burst healer such as engi medkit/water fields blasting.

Think of a havoc group as a machine, and constant regeneration uptime as oil. Without it, the machinery will eventually stop. With it, you can keep going for a long time. Especially if you run ranger with elite spirit out. 620 hp/second heal and 60% protection uptime (not counting prot from guard/necro/ele) is not something you want to pass up on without a reason.

medkit sucks, healint turret is just best for that =)
+ele can give some burst heals and additional blasts.
to OP
If u’re serious about guild etc, specially for it then just gather roamers/pvpeers/multiclassers and tryout different things, starting from what u’re best at, but do not make strict ROLES.
it’s ….honestly, it’s very kitten, because as i said previously, this game is awesome for this combinations that u can have those roles divided upon other players and be more selfsustainable (“I only DPS I CAN”T HEAL MYSELFE") while bringing something to group fight.

Even more feedback than I thought I’d get. Our guild is roaming with more success lately (prob because of the builds that mesh together now) but Thief still has it issues and i’m thinking of simply taking the advice of “play how you play best, we will die and then you can mold your build from there”. I’m also trying to get the whole tank, healer, dps trinity out of the guilds mind because i’ve noticed mid fight someone yells “Help guard i need heals!” and im thinking, I remove condi’s dude, use your heal skill? or call for water from engi? Anyways its still a work in progress but thats an improvement from the mass train wreck we were.

No one starts off the best so don’t feel bad!

Here are a few videos I would recommend.

This video teaches how to 1v2 (EXTREMELY HELPFUL)
http://youtu.be/F1nr5IpngTg

This one teaches you how to ambush enemies (Situational but fun)
http://youtu.be/-mfCpdj8Sno

This one improves flexibilty within a given class
http://youtu.be/JZl6XOxmKPQ

This one is a tutorial on how to buildcraft
http://youtu.be/uj-tJJ5hGas

And lastly this is about efficiency
http://youtu.be/eeED14SaSL8

If you have additional questions pm me

:)

I warned you about Venom Share, might aswell go back to bread and Butter d/p 2/6//0/0/6 or 0/6/2/0/0/6, go Trickery for Boon Steal and Interrupt – and 2 in SA, depending if the thief needs to cleanse condis on his own.

CrimsonNeonite.1048:

I warned you about Venom Share, might aswell go back to bread and Butter d/p 2/6//0/0/6 or 0/6/2/0/0/6, go Trickery for Boon Steal and Interrupt – and 2 in SA, depending if the thief needs to cleanse condis on his own.

Yea i find the thief in the group with venom share to be fairly lackluster but tbh he is a new gw2 player and a guild member. First and only toon is a thief and with active survivability utilities and a close range weapon set he dies immediately, Its not even funny how quick he dies but I won’t deny him a position in our group because of skill level. At least the venom share build allows him to aid us while he learns. I’ve encouraged him to swap to a power based build with skills like shadowstep, infiltrators signet, etc when he solo roams or if he groups with us outside reset night until he becomes comfortable with how thief operates. I’ve also noticed from a player who doesnt play thief that anything besides pistol main hand takes exceptional skill to play because it seems like a major up hill battle.

If anyone has a build that is power based that my thief can use while still LEARNING the class and all its abilities (basically more survivablity that doesnt revolve around reading enemy animations) then please provide the build because I don’t really even want to encourage him to use P/D venom share because I fear it may create bad habits but I also cant have him go down 2 secs into every fight or rally bait the whole group.

oscuro.9720:

Edit: NO ZERKER!!! Zerk builds are only for PvE. I didn’t have time to look at your builds because my phone is wierd with links, but never have any zerker.
Also, AoE Condi cleanse is very, VERY important when fighting 5v5!!!

I beg your pardon? The meta wvw havoc players and roamers run roughly five stat set-ups, sometimes mixed: zerk, knight, cele, dire, rabid.

Berserker is a must for basically every group if you have a thief, a warrior, a mesmer or a guardian. I personally run berserker on each of those classes with great success. I don’t lose 5v3 like OP, to the contrary… the glorious times of 3v10 will always stay in my mind. ;D

Playing venom share takes a bit to get right, u have to play defensively, just C’n’Díng as soon as stealth drops if you get some focus and id suggest a Dire set. The poisons will be up every 32 seconds which isnt too bad for the group, generally if the target cannot clear the long immob hes in serious trouble.

This is 1 of the main reasons i switched from elixir gun on my engi to rocket boots for groups. The burst generally comes on the end of a decent immob, shatter mesmer iLeap(usually running condi duration for the extended immob), warrior flurry, or venomshare.