Guild Wars 2

Stealth is a kitten mechanic and highly overused in the state of abuse. I don’t mind the stealth of the mesmer (just a small trick from time to time). But perma stealth? Just no! Its not fair for the rest classes. Its not a matter of skill dealing with this mechanic. Its annoying, its trolling and…well its kitten.

I know, unfortunately, that stealth cannot be removed from gameplay, but it is essential to be toned down. This will allow some players to learn how to actually fight instead of hiding for ever :P

So, I agree with the OP, but the reveal should last overall a LOT more.

Envy.1679:

Archon.6481:

Why are you guys suggesting stealth traps as a counter to thieves? Are forgetting how incredible thief mobility is? Nothing short of a warrior (specced for it) or another thief will catch me.

Shadowstep + 4 Heartseekers = 3120 distance.

as i said before

no one cares if you run
you arent hurting anyone when you run
running = losing

youre wasting nobody’s but your own time if you run.

I wasted 15 badges and 500 of your karma.
I also wasted 10 supply from your server.
Since I escaped I can go kill more dolyaks
Since I escaped I can go tag more keep doors

I think I won.

Archon.6481:

Envy.1679:

Archon.6481:

Why are you guys suggesting stealth traps as a counter to thieves? Are forgetting how incredible thief mobility is? Nothing short of a warrior (specced for it) or another thief will catch me.

Shadowstep + 4 Heartseekers = 3120 distance.

as i said before

no one cares if you run
you arent hurting anyone when you run
running = losing

youre wasting nobody’s but your own time if you run.

I wasted 15 badges and 500 of your karma.
I also wasted 10 supply from your server.
Since I escaped I can go kill more dolyaks
Since I escaped I can go tag more keep doors

I think I won.

Honestly, a Warrior with Sword/Warhorn can run just as well as any thief could.
My kit build can run just as well as any thief.
An Ele can rund just as well as any thief.

Don’t flatter yourself, Stealth traps weren’t aimed at thieves, they were aimed at Mesmer’s Veil (you know, that class that can turn the tides of battle by itself, and has a security routine specifically devoted to it whenever you take a keep.) All the other classes are off taking real objectives, you’re killing defenseless npcs and playing nicky nicky nine doors, real impressive.

Dual.8953:

Archon.6481:

Envy.1679:

Archon.6481:

Why are you guys suggesting stealth traps as a counter to thieves? Are forgetting how incredible thief mobility is? Nothing short of a warrior (specced for it) or another thief will catch me.

Shadowstep + 4 Heartseekers = 3120 distance.

as i said before

no one cares if you run
you arent hurting anyone when you run
running = losing

youre wasting nobody’s but your own time if you run.

I wasted 15 badges and 500 of your karma.
I also wasted 10 supply from your server.
Since I escaped I can go kill more dolyaks
Since I escaped I can go tag more keep doors

I think I won.

Honestly, a Warrior with Sword/Warhorn can run just as well as any thief could.
My kit build can run just as well as any thief.
An Ele can rund just as well as any thief.

Don’t flatter yourself, Stealth traps weren’t aimed at thieves, they were aimed at Mesmer’s Veil (you know, that class that can turn the tides of battle by itself, and has a security routine specifically devoted to it whenever you take a keep.) All the other classes are off taking real objectives, you’re killing defenseless npcs and playing nicky nicky nine doors, real impressive.

Elementalists have low mobility compared to a thief or warrior. A sword/warhorn warrior can’t do nearly as much dps as a thief can. Thief also has better disengagability than both eles and warriors because of stealth.

Using stealth trap to counter veil is laughable. Veil gives 3 seconds of stealth. The trap takes 4 seconds to cast. What? Just throw the trap and pray no one sees you and no one triggers it prematurely? The trap is incredibly unreliable to stop a veil Mesmer. The Mesmer can turn tides by himself? What about a perma stealth thief who can perma stealth a Mesmer in a keep so they can port everyone up? And FYI: I never claimed stealth traps were made to counter thieves.

While the “real” classes hide behind a zerg, I’m off roaming with a few friends capping camps and killing dolyaks. At the same time, taking far more skill and being far more efficient than a 50 man zerg wailing on a tower door. Do you think I care at all if my server wins? I just want good fights and to have fun.

I guarantee you me keeping a keep door tagged and killing dolyaks is contributing far more than anyone save a mesmer, could do by themselves.

@OP. Thieves are already weak.

Also, I always LOL when someone comes on here claiming to be a thief asking for a nerf. No profession asks for nerfs on itself. Just be honest with your intentions and you’d have more credibility.

style.6173:

@OP. Thieves are already weak.

Also, I always LOL when someone comes on here claiming to be a thief asking for a nerf. No profession asks for nerfs on itself. Just be honest with your intentions and you’d have more credibility.

I’m a thief. I think perma stealth needs a change. I don’t think perma stealth should be the only option for survivability for d/p. I don’t mind it being nerfed so long as we get some sort of survivability to make up for it.

Dual.8953:

Cactus.2710:

Dual.8953:

I’m against Aegis droping stealth, for two reasons; one Aegis is already a warning in and of itself, you hear the “pong” and dodge roll away, let them screw up and destealth on the miss of the second try; two, because the Guardian has perma aegis, I play a Guardian and they already can practically faceroll most content in this game, they don’t need anymore freebies, however, they could add a 13 millisecond aftercast to Backstab. The average person takes about 12 milliseconds to react to sound, I’ve clocked myself between 11 and 14.

It appears that you don’t know what a millisecond is. No way you react to sound in 12 msec.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_chronometry

http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime/stats.php

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2006/reactiontime.shtml

http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Reaction+Time+Human

http://www.colorado.edu/eeb/courses/1230jbasey/abstracts%202005/5.htm

My bad, I was out a decimal point. Yes 120 milliseconds, add that to Backstab’s 250 ms cast time for a total of 370 ms. How do I know I’m 110 to 140 ms? A reaction game I used to play clocked me at it.

Ahh … that makes sense. And 110 msec reaction time to a sound is quite respectable.

Op

You speak as Dev who believes and cares about class balance; I wished you were though.

Because

You would’ve end Elitism, Favoritism, Self-Righteous, Self-Centered,Grandiosity, Egpoitic Superiority Mindset of class balance, especially being Intentionally given to a Thief class, who in no way shouldn’t, to begin with.

Unfortunately the one we have, Fully Embraces them and Promotes them to the Fullest; having no desire for class Balance whatsoever.

Also don’t forget

Thief is the only Nerf-Reawarding class among the classes..

You get the picture,

Archon.6481:

Envy.1679:

Archon.6481:

Why are you guys suggesting stealth traps as a counter to thieves? Are forgetting how incredible thief mobility is? Nothing short of a warrior (specced for it) or another thief will catch me.

Shadowstep + 4 Heartseekers = 3120 distance.

as i said before

no one cares if you run
you arent hurting anyone when you run
running = losing

youre wasting nobody’s but your own time if you run.

I wasted 15 badges and 500 of your karma.
I also wasted 10 supply from your server.
Since I escaped I can go kill more dolyaks
Since I escaped I can go tag more keep doors

I think I won.

you didnt win.
Just because i spent a measly amount of badges/karma just to swat some fly doesnt mean you won. and killing dolyaks and tagging doors isnt the issue anyones talking about with thieves. anyone can kill dolyaks or tag doors.

now again, have fun “running” since you think “running = winning”

lol.

Ommu.1649:

Revealed debuff should be 60s. If you start a fight, finish it.

Bam.

Right here.

You can take stealth heavy thieves down with conditions. It just takes 10 minutes of them not leaving you alone. Ten long minutes.

Amins.3710:

Ommu.1649:

Revealed debuff should be 60s. If you start a fight, finish it.

Bam.

Right here.

Whoever heard of a control spec that can only control set that can only CC once, or a condition spec tha can only apply a decent bleed once? That’d be S/D and P/D. This is why thieves oppose ludacrice ideas like this. People make suggesting how to balance one spec, and in the process utterly destroy 2 other specs.

D/P build is clearly the issue. Its survivability is fine, but the problem is you don’t have to sacrifice enough DPS for the level of survivability you get. I don’t really care if they nerf them or not. Outside of what they do well they are sub par at everything else. But if they are going to nerf it, they need to look at the kit. Nerfing traits etc is just going to nerf other builds that aren’t so bad.

Archon.6481:

Envy.1679:

Archon.6481:

Envy.1679:

Archon.6481:

Why are you guys suggesting stealth traps as a counter to thieves? Are forgetting how incredible thief mobility is? Nothing short of a warrior (specced for it) or another thief will catch me.

Shadowstep + 4 Heartseekers = 3120 distance.

as i said before

no one cares if you run
you arent hurting anyone when you run
running = losing

youre wasting nobody’s but your own time if you run.

I wasted 15 badges and 500 of your karma.
I also wasted 10 supply from your server.
Since I escaped I can go kill more dolyaks
Since I escaped I can go tag more keep doors

I think I won.

you didnt win.
Just because i spent a measly amount of badges/karma just to swat some fly doesnt mean you won. and killing dolyaks and tagging doors isnt the issue anyones talking about with thieves. anyone can kill dolyaks or tag doors.

now again, have fun “running” since you think “running = winning”

lol.

You could have spent those badges on blueprints. You chose instead to waste in a trap to “swat a fly”.

You could’ve spent that supply on building siege and repairs. You chose instead to use to “swat a fly”.

You accomplished nothing in using the trap except delaying me from killing your dolyak. I would you like to see you try and kill a dolyak with 3 skilled players escorting it using a non thief. Maybe a Mesmer could do it but they’d surely die afterwards.

I also never claimed that “running = winning”. Stop trying to put words in my mouth.

You can’t win using a stealth trap. You don’t spend $1000 just to kill a fly and then say you “won”. If anything you’re an idiot. There are much better ways to spend $1000…

you said since you made me waste karma, badges and supply and escaped (running) "I think I won. "

so how am i putting words in your mouth. BTW whatever man im not here to argue. all im saying is thieves are just annoying flies at best and dont help their side more than any other class can. Less so, if anything.

Thieves are only OP if you let them be. Let them backstab you and you’ve put yourself in a sticky situation. However if you keep moving, doing attacks and know what you’re or what they’re doing it won’t matter if they have stealth.

Envy.1679:

Archon.6481:

Envy.1679:

Archon.6481:

Envy.1679:

Archon.6481:

Why are you guys suggesting stealth traps as a counter to thieves? Are forgetting how incredible thief mobility is? Nothing short of a warrior (specced for it) or another thief will catch me.

Shadowstep + 4 Heartseekers = 3120 distance.

as i said before

no one cares if you run
you arent hurting anyone when you run
running = losing

youre wasting nobody’s but your own time if you run.

I wasted 15 badges and 500 of your karma.
I also wasted 10 supply from your server.
Since I escaped I can go kill more dolyaks
Since I escaped I can go tag more keep doors

I think I won.

you didnt win.
Just because i spent a measly amount of badges/karma just to swat some fly doesnt mean you won. and killing dolyaks and tagging doors isnt the issue anyones talking about with thieves. anyone can kill dolyaks or tag doors.

now again, have fun “running” since you think “running = winning”

lol.

You could have spent those badges on blueprints. You chose instead to waste in a trap to “swat a fly”.

You could’ve spent that supply on building siege and repairs. You chose instead to use to “swat a fly”.

You accomplished nothing in using the trap except delaying me from killing your dolyak. I would you like to see you try and kill a dolyak with 3 skilled players escorting it using a non thief. Maybe a Mesmer could do it but they’d surely die afterwards.

I also never claimed that “running = winning”. Stop trying to put words in my mouth.

You can’t win using a stealth trap. You don’t spend $1000 just to kill a fly and then say you “won”. If anything you’re an idiot. There are much better ways to spend $1000…

you said since you made me waste karma, badges and supply and escaped (running) "I think I won. "

so how am i putting words in your mouth. BTW whatever man im not here to argue. all im saying is thieves are just annoying flies at best and dont help their side more than any other class can. Less so, if anything.

I did win. A personal victory. Knowing that you wasted that much and still didnt kill me is quite warming. I can still come back later and kill your dolyak. You didn’t accomplish anything.

Did you ever consider that some people don’t care about winning? Some people couldn’t care any less about PPT and just want to fight and have fun.

JJBigs.8456:

Zephyrus.9680:

it is almost impossible to kill even 1v2 or 1v3….. Particularly in 1v3s, 1v4s, 1v5s, 1v2s in enemy supply camps, etc….

This is such a small part of WvW i dont see why anyone would care. No changes needed.

Just came out of some WvW play last night (first time in a long time), you know what I saw in the area where you get ported to out of WvW?

Thief, Thief, Thief, Thief, Thief, Thief, Thief, Thief, Thief, Thief…

Nothing but dozens of thieves, and in WvW nobody playing outside a zerg unless a thief themself. This is not a small problem, and more players are abusing this petty childish, no counter, no-consequence, no-skill playstyle every day.

I have an 80 thief that is not my main, and I agree with OP 100%.

I found it absurd that I can sit and spam backstab and not be revealed if I am blinded, blocked, etc. It just continues to give the thief the advantage and does not punish poor gameplay decisions.

At the end of the day, I think that’s the biggest issue with the thief. You can spam backstab from stealth the practically no real decision making. You can spam heartseeker and still deal decent enough damage. There needs to be more give and take with the thief, IMO.

I’m pretty sure thief nerfs are coming, atleast I hope so. Builds with other classes that had too many benefits and not enough negatives were nerfed into the ground forcing people to use other builds. It’s only a matter of time before the high reward, no risk, permastealth thief takes a much deserved hit. Although at this point I don’t have much confidence in Anet to do it properly. Unfortunately they would try to nerf permastealth thief and end up destroying other niche builds instead while barely even touching the main problem. Just look at what they did with elementalist. They wanted to balance the bunker build but instead nerfed the wrong things and utterly destroyed several other niche builds in the process making them completely useless and forcing more people to go bunker as a result, which they then nerfed again making the class weaker overall. As much as I dislike thieves, I don’t want to see that same thing happen to them. They’ll try to balance it and destroy other builds and we’ll see even more permastealth thieves because it will be the only option they have left. Let’s face it, Anet sucks at balancing things.

Envy.1679:

Terrahero.9358:

Envy.1679:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stealth_Disruptor_Trap

fixed

Because countering a thief should totally cost 15 badges, 10 supply, exposing yourself for 4 seconds and praying to all the higher powers he actually triggers it.

Just so he then has to run away, and you can pat yourself on the back because there is no way those 15badges and 10 supply couldve been better spend….

the thing is countering a thief is completely voluntary. youre not winning any keeps and towers by roaming alone and fighting thieves. .youre the one who wants to go fight thieves in wvw. if youre off fighting thieves then you have no right to complain about needing to use your supply for something thats actually useful.

Wow way to have no logic at all…you must play a thief.

So you’re saying is that if I just zone in and I want to catch up with my zerg, I just have to deal with three thieves laying in wait, perma stealthed, for my solo self to come running by, insta-gibbing me? I have no right to complain because I am not winning any keeps at that moment?
How about when a full group or two can’t kill one thief? I mean, is your point that thieves are the only ones who should fairly be allowed to run solo and live…with insane survivability and get-away skills?
I could go on but I won’t. Your point is full of holes and self serving.

Norseman.4280:

Envy.1679:

Terrahero.9358:

Envy.1679:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stealth_Disruptor_Trap

fixed

Because countering a thief should totally cost 15 badges, 10 supply, exposing yourself for 4 seconds and praying to all the higher powers he actually triggers it.

Just so he then has to run away, and you can pat yourself on the back because there is no way those 15badges and 10 supply couldve been better spend….

the thing is countering a thief is completely voluntary. youre not winning any keeps and towers by roaming alone and fighting thieves. .youre the one who wants to go fight thieves in wvw. if youre off fighting thieves then you have no right to complain about needing to use your supply for something thats actually useful.

Wow way to have no logic at all…you must play a thief.

So you’re saying is that if I just zone in and I want to catch up with my zerg, I just have to deal with three thieves laying in wait, perma stealthed, for my solo self to come running by, insta-gibbing me? I have no right to complain because I am not winning any keeps at that moment?
How about when a full group or two can’t kill one thief? I mean, is your point that thieves are the only ones who should fairly be allowed to run solo and live…with insane survivability and get-away skills?
I could go on but I won’t. Your point is full of holes and self serving.

No, you shouldn’t be griefed trying to play WvW by any class. The issue is you have people who have no idea how to play the Thief class (often those who haven’t even bothered trying to make one) trying to post suggestions on how to fix a perceived problem.

Fact of the matter is that perma stealth isn’t an issue. The issue is that the build doesn’t sacrifice enough damage (next to none) for the amount of utility it gains (AE pulsing blind, increased stealth uptime which results in higher condition removal, passive regen, burst). So if we want to be fools and nerf one thing at a time, the easiest solution would be to simply remove what makes perma-stealth possible and that’s the smoke field. Since the weapon sets that use pistol offhand are considered high utility builds, then the leap finishers should be adjusted to some other form of utility… like granting aegis or protection boon.

But really, what would this solve other than quieting the masses until the next thing crops up? Once perma stealth is gone is there another area people perceive thieves to be overpowered?

It can’t be burst because Warriors and Elementalists are capable of much more.
It can’t be survivability because the Thief has none outside of stealth and when in the open they are shut down quick.
It can’t be group utility because the Thief is useless in PvE and Zergs.
It can’t be roaming because you just removed the one trump card left.

My issue with alot of the complaints about the Thief class is, even though stealth is very powerful, it doesn’t elevate the Thief class into a category all it’s own. Instead, the Thief is generally regarded as no more or less powerful than Mesmers, Guardians, Rangers, or Elementalists in overall power. And that’s with the insane initiative regen (which is the real problem behind all of this that none of you recognize because you clearly don’t play the class) the way it is now.

Can’t nerf stealth because the Thief barely holds on as it is. You can’t nerf intiative regen for the same reason unless you’re prepared to increase other areas of the class at the same time. The only thing you can do is change the leap finishers on smoke fields which will remove an entire build option from the class which already has about 2 total options to choose from after the last patch.

Envy.1679:

Master of Timespace.2548:

Envy.1679:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stealth_Disruptor_Trap

fixed

I can’t count on how many of those I’ve stepped and still gotten away. :P

no one cares if you run

if you are running you arent doing anyone any harm youre just waisting your own time

Oh but if they don’t care, then why do they chase me across the map ? Many thieves out there, myself included, play the game to troll. I don’t destroy dolyaks unless someone is defending them, I never flip camps. (lol why would I care who owns them) I don’t even stomp you in most cases and I will not chase. But oh, I will troll you if you are one of the chaser monkeys!

This is not a small problem, and more players are abusing this petty childish, no counter, no-consequence, no-skill playstyle every day.

In this game the larger group has a ridiculous advantage over the smaller ones due to certain artificial rules. In addition the maps are very small and pale which makes it difficult to avoid groups. Thus everyone who likes to roam solo or duo is forced to play thief.

Conncept.7638:

Thief, Thief, Thief, Thief, Thief, Thief, Thief, Thief, Thief, Thief…

Nothing but dozens of thieves, and in WvW nobody playing outside a zerg unless a thief themself. This is not a small problem, and more players are abusing this petty childish, no counter, no-consequence, no-skill playstyle every day.

Hmm… One of my guildies mentioned something similar happening to him! I don’t think it’s an everyday occurrence but he certainly was pretty mad that day. He couldn’t kill a single one but as soon as he started to “ignore” them they just chased after him relentlessly. He’s a kitten good duelist but all that skill is kinda pointless when your enemy can just run away. That’s why I rolled Thief. I could see this coming from miles away. Same story in every game.

This is actually a very good thing. I encourage everyone to roll Thief to roam WvW. The more Thieves there are, the more evidence Anet has that stealth abuse is ridiculous. Maybe when the developers all get tired of getting surprise buttsecks from Thieves in WvW they’ll be tempted to do something about it.

I’ve never been a fan of stealth mechanics in any game. It always just seemed like a cowardly way to fight to me. I mainly used S/D and P/P for the short amount of time I used thief before becoming incredibly bored with it. I tried to come up with some sort of build that doesn’t use any stealth at all. I was hoping I could create some sort of super evasive ninja of death build but thief is so heavily tied to the stealth mechanic in this game. I really wish they would change all the thief’s traitlines and abilities so that stuff like that would be possible and there would be a wider variety of builds for people like me who don’t like stealth and would rather have a super evasive speedy character. It sucks that the majority of the thief’s abilities are tied into stealth and you’re pretty much forced to play that way. They really need to completely rework the entire class. Most of the non stealth stuff is so bad though. They need to bring down the stealth stuff and buff the other aspects of thief.

It always just seemed like a cowardly way to fight to me

If there is anything cowardly in this game, then it’s the zerger monkeys. Basically they feel they are entitled to stomp everything because they have numbers, and then when they can’t stomp a thief, they come here to cry for nerfs.

Why not do what WoW does with stealth and make distance a factor. When rouges get too close or stay still too long they just become hazed and non-auto targetable (as in you can still target them, but you have to click on them). Keep all stealth abilities the same, just change how stealth works.

Krikr.2094:

Why not do what WoW does with stealth and make distance a factor. When rouges get too close or stay still too long they just become hazed and non-auto targetable (as in you can still target them, but you have to click on them). Keep all stealth abilities the same, just change how stealth works.

Wonder if it’s do able. D/P only maintains stealth because it constantly refreshes it. The distance thing could be problematic for sets that need sustain to kill like S/D, but diminishing returns for stealth that hasn’t triggered revealed in over 2.5 seconds could be interesting.

Roll a thief/mesmer. Fixed.

XII.9401:

Roll a thief/mesmer. Fixed.

You forgot guard/eng… they’ll also beat a thief in a 1v1. Yet thief is OP and stealth needs to get nerfed. Yea… ok…

Block causes revealed? You kidding me? Does my guard not have an easy enough time vs. thieves as it is? o.O

The big problem with thieves in WvW is that they take advantage of new/bad players. There are a LOT of these in WvW. Does that mean they should balance based upon new/bad players? Nah, because that would kill depth in the game.

They should fix the C&D off of walls etc. though. That’s unintended.

Envy.1679:

Archon.6481:

Why are you guys suggesting stealth traps as a counter to thieves? Are forgetting how incredible thief mobility is? Nothing short of a warrior (specced for it) or another thief will catch me.

Shadowstep + 4 Heartseekers = 3120 distance.

as i said before

no one cares if you run
you arent hurting anyone when you run
running = losing

youre wasting nobody’s but your own time if you run.

Anybody vs thief = Fight and Lose / Run and Lose.

I prefer to run away because there’s a small chance of coming across friendlies.

Aberrant.6749:

XII.9401:

Roll a thief/mesmer. Fixed.

You forgot guard/eng… they’ll also beat a thief in a 1v1.

I call BS.

Stealth does not need to be fixed. What needs to be fixed is all your gear! Seriously, the only reason I get my kitten kicked so much as a thief is because so many people are running around wvw with legendary weapons and gear worth dozens of gold. If my (and your) stuff had stats as high as everyone else’s (like PvP) no one would complain. Besides, is it really so hard to see a ring of black powder on the ground and run to it, knowing the thief will be in that spot for several seconds? Even after that the stealth lasts an extra 2 seconds, leaving no time to run away as you have to top up stealth again.

It’s hard enough as a thief as it is. If stealth gets ‘fixed’ I would delete the game in despair

Kuja.2503:

If stealth gets ‘fixed’ I would delete the game in despair

threatening to quit a game because your OP class gets nerfed, if i had a nickle for everytime i heard that. lol

the only actual real problem i see with the thief if the insane amount of mobility + master of stealth + the insane amount of regen a thief can get while STILL going full berszerker. 500 health a second while in stealth while clearing conditions is pretty overpowered, by a long shot. not to mention they can reset fights at the flick of a wrist, go from 20% hp to 100% hp after some cheesy stealth healing, and still pump out 10k cnd+backstab combos. (not to mention heartseeker). if you are still defending this class after this reply, you do not have brain.

The Game Slayer.7632:

Kuja.2503:

If stealth gets ‘fixed’ I would delete the game in despair

threatening to quit a game because your OP class gets nerfed, if i had a nickle for everytime i heard that. lol

the only actual real problem i see with the thief if the insane amount of mobility + master of stealth + the insane amount of regen a thief can get while STILL going full berszerker. 500 health a second while in stealth while clearing conditions is pretty overpowered, by a long shot. not to mention they can reset fights at the flick of a wrist, go from 20% hp to 100% hp after some cheesy stealth healing, and still pump out 10k cnd+backstab combos. (not to mention heartseeker). if you are still defending this class after this reply, you do not have brain.

Thieves are hardly op and are so reliant on stealth that any adjustment to it without vast improvements elsewhere will result in this game only having 7 classes instead of 8.

Seriously though… Thieves are no more or less powerful than Elementalists, Mesmers, Guardians, or Rangers in overall power even with stealth and the remaining 2 classes have little difficulty beating thieves on a regular basis despite their overall handicap in WvW/PvP.

Everyone will acknowledge that Stealth is powerful. But is the Thief class as a whole? Apparently not given its ranking in sPvP and how no one wants them in the current WvW meta.

Thief stealth is so overpowered is because the stealth mechanic prevents you from capturing nodes. This is the Achilles heel to the mechanic. In tPvP, node capture is essential to winning.

I think the correct course of action is to allow players to capture nodes while in stealth. Then you will see all the skills, traits and utilities rebalanced for wvw as well as tPvP.

Atherakhia.4086:

Thieves are hardly op and are so reliant on stealth that any adjustment to it without vast improvements elsewhere will result in this game only having 7 classes instead of 8.

Seriously though… Thieves are no more or less powerful than Elementalists, Mesmers, Guardians, or Rangers in overall power even with stealth and the remaining 2 classes have little difficulty beating thieves on a regular basis despite their overall handicap in WvW/PvP.

Everyone will acknowledge that Stealth is powerful. But is the Thief class as a whole? Apparently not given its ranking in sPvP and how no one wants them in the current WvW meta.

This link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kupkZLVQ5XY >>> your argument.

Overpowered and needs a nerf.

Perma tealth or majority stealth is a problem. Distribute power from the Shadow Arts traitline to make others more attractive is a good start. Sucks how all condition removal/defends is in this line at no offensive loss whatsoever, in fact actually promotes constant stealth to gain power. Hopefully a shuffle happens so you’re not deliberately torturing yourself by going 0 SA.

Seems to me any issues with perma stealth thief’s could be fixed with one gameplay change, revealed when crit. If a stealthed player receives a critical hit while in stealth they are revealed. Done.

I would say 80% of the players who get ganked 1on1 by thief’s are either straight glass cannons and shouldn’t be by them self’s anyway. Or are new/badly built characters who would likely be killed 1on1 by a skilled/well build character no matter the class.

Everyone that say’s thief is fine in wvw need to get a high five in the face with and 18 wheeler. No other class comes even close to what a thief can do and the hardest part of that is that there is no counter to it.
Perma thiefs needs a hard nerf. Because how can you defend your siege against a perma thief running through an entire zerg do his thing and runs back with is perma stealth.

How to play a thief and become unkillable.

1 stealth
2 attack
3 dodge
4 see step 1.

Svarty.8019:

Envy.1679:

Archon.6481:

Why are you guys suggesting stealth traps as a counter to thieves? Are forgetting how incredible thief mobility is? Nothing short of a warrior (specced for it) or another thief will catch me.

Shadowstep + 4 Heartseekers = 3120 distance.

as i said before

no one cares if you run
you arent hurting anyone when you run
running = losing

youre wasting nobody’s but your own time if you run.

Anybody vs thief = Fight and Lose / Run and Lose.

I prefer to run away because there’s a small chance of coming across friendlies.

Aberrant.6749:

XII.9401:

Roll a thief/mesmer. Fixed.

You forgot guard/eng… they’ll also beat a thief in a 1v1.

I call BS.

Really? They all counter thief pretty easy man… have a lot of survival and CC… that’s the bane of a thief.

I wreck thieves on my eng so hard it’s not even funny.

The people that complain about thieves generally are running zerg builds… and thieves run roaming builds. Regardless of class 1v1 roaming will beat a zerg build. It’s not a stealth/thief issue. If you build for roaming you can beat a thief on multiple classes with few issues. On top of that thieves aren’t the best in groups (why so many roam). Thieves need some diversity love if anything.

When a Dev runs havok with 2 Thieves and 2 Mesmers, that tell’s you something is fishy with balancing and stealth.

I’d love if damage removed stealth. Like most game designers knew to do.

My actual counter balance for stealth would be, Ranger pet’s ignore or see through stealth. Because Thieves should share in our “Oh… F” moments in the game too

This is if Ranger Pet’s could actually hit anyone in WvW

Thedenofsin.7340:

Atherakhia.4086:

Thieves are hardly op and are so reliant on stealth that any adjustment to it without vast improvements elsewhere will result in this game only having 7 classes instead of 8.

Seriously though… Thieves are no more or less powerful than Elementalists, Mesmers, Guardians, or Rangers in overall power even with stealth and the remaining 2 classes have little difficulty beating thieves on a regular basis despite their overall handicap in WvW/PvP.

Everyone will acknowledge that Stealth is powerful. But is the Thief class as a whole? Apparently not given its ranking in sPvP and how no one wants them in the current WvW meta.

This link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kupkZLVQ5XY >>> your argument.

Overpowered and needs a nerf.

I fail to see how a video of some of the worst players I’ve ever seen proves anything. “The thief went invisible, I’ll just stand here not moving maybe he won’t see me” protip, thief vision is not based on movement, we can still see you when you stand still. That video is the definition of l2p.

DeWolfe.2174:

When a Dev runs havok with 2 Thieves and 2 Mesmers, that tell’s you something is fishy with balancing and stealth.

I’d love if damage removed stealth. Like most game designers knew to do.

My actual counter balance for stealth would be, Ranger pet’s ignore or see through stealth. Because Thieves should share in our “Oh… F” moments in the game too

This is if Ranger Pet’s could actually hit anyone in WvW

That could be one interesting counter mechanic against stealth. Guardians could have “true seeing” which would give visibility through stealth for a short time. Necro could maybe cause revealed with the veil of doom. Warrior could reveal nearby stealthed players with “fear me”, that would make sense, etc.
Stealth does need some meaningful counter play. Currently there is none.

Zephyrus.9680:

Shadow’s Embrace trait (condition removal in stealth): way overpowered because it almost makes thief immune to condition damage but I can’t think of how to nerf it without overnerfing.

How about just remove it, and give the Thief some real condition removal that isn’t tied to Shadow Arts. We Thieves that don’t use Shadow Arts are just begging for some condition removal.

Surbrus.6942:

Zephyrus.9680:

Shadow’s Embrace trait (condition removal in stealth): way overpowered because it almost makes thief immune to condition damage but I can’t think of how to nerf it without overnerfing.

How about just remove it, and give the Thief some real condition removal that isn’t tied to Shadow Arts. We Thieves that don’t use Shadow Arts are just begging for some condition removal.

I’m sure eles that don’t want to spec into water want good condition removal too. Ohh, maybe rangers want to do it too without taking healing spring or speccing into wilderness survival? Or perhaps guardians who dont want to spec into honor?

Honestly it’s pathetic that this kitten still exhists.

Shemsu.8721:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Atherakhia.4086:

Thieves are hardly op and are so reliant on stealth that any adjustment to it without vast improvements elsewhere will result in this game only having 7 classes instead of 8.

Seriously though… Thieves are no more or less powerful than Elementalists, Mesmers, Guardians, or Rangers in overall power even with stealth and the remaining 2 classes have little difficulty beating thieves on a regular basis despite their overall handicap in WvW/PvP.

Everyone will acknowledge that Stealth is powerful. But is the Thief class as a whole? Apparently not given its ranking in sPvP and how no one wants them in the current WvW meta.

This link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kupkZLVQ5XY >>> your argument.

Overpowered and needs a nerf.

I fail to see how a video of some of the worst players I’ve ever seen proves anything. “The thief went invisible, I’ll just stand here not moving maybe he won’t see me” protip, thief vision is not based on movement, we can still see you when you stand still. That video is the definition of l2p.

Dude everyone know thieves are like Jurassic park raptors…

That clip is also from January… thieves have been nerfed multiple times since then… despite not needing it.

Let them Stealth all day, i don’t care, i have a thief as main Char. Im telling you the Blind is the bigger Issue, its easy enough to predict movement patterns, but it’s really annoying to land hits with all that blinding going on.

Remove that Blind after 1 miss, and for crying out loud don’t let blind stack up.

Noob thiefs go around in packs now, even if you predict where they are you still hit air, due to blind.

Blind + Stealth is to Potent a combo to be spamable.

Arena Net you reading this ?

I can still kill those FOTM easy on my thief but it’s becomming a nuisance for other classes that dont have as good conditon removeal.

I’ll repeat it again, the correct way to fix this is for damage to remove stealth. You could add 1-2 sec of invulnerability when you enter stealth, but after that it’s removed by any damage except conditions that were already present. So any new skill that hits you, reveals you. It would still be pretty hard to find the thief, since you can’t target him with most skills, apart from ground AoE. Considering the insane mobility thieves have, a thief could still disengage and port to the horizon whenever he wanted.

zerospin.8604:

I’ll repeat it again, the correct way to fix this is for damage to remove stealth. You could add 1-2 sec of invulnerability when you enter stealth, but after that it’s removed by any damage except conditions that were already present. So any new skill that hits you, reveals you. It would still be pretty hard to find the thief, since you can’t target him with most skills, apart from ground AoE. Considering the insane mobility thieves have, a thief could still disengage and port to the horizon whenever he wanted.

I’ve been against the revealed on damage since the first time it was suggested in beta, because of how much of thief defense is tied to shadow arts, and that our only direct stealth from a weapon skill is melee. However, if stealth provided 2 seconds of invulnerability, I would LOVE this idea. I’d prefer access to protection and stability but i’ll take invulnerability (or some form of distortion tied to stealth)

zerospin.8604:

I’ll repeat it again, the correct way to fix this is for damage to remove stealth. You could add 1-2 sec of invulnerability when you enter stealth, but after that it’s removed by any damage except conditions that were already present. So any new skill that hits you, reveals you. It would still be pretty hard to find the thief, since you can’t target him with most skills, apart from ground AoE. Considering the insane mobility thieves have, a thief could still disengage and port to the horizon whenever he wanted.

…or just hit him with any mele attack… or the auto targeting binding blade that doesn’t care about stealth… on top of the fact that multiple classes have spammable aoe… it would destroy the entire class.