Guild Wars 2

DevonCarver.5370:

Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054:

It has come to the point that as WvW has not received real updates since launch that we ourselves would not mind doing the testing.

I can appreciate that many people don’t like EotM, but don’t conflate a lack of updates that you personally like with a lack of updates. WvW has added a great deal of content and rewards over just the last calendar year.

Hopefully you will find more you like in future updates and we’ll continue to add to the game.

See, this irks me. Mr. Carter, I appreciate that this is your job, so you are close to this topic. Appreciate the fact that so am I and so are many others. Just to validate my position a little: been on Blackgate since launch. Over 6000 hours and 1500 war points. An avid WvWer.

Lets look at the “updates” WvW has gotten; and yes, “updates” is meant to be in quotations. Maybe I will leave some out by accident, as I am just writing this in response to you.

Culling. Do you guys consider this an update? I don’t. Not one bit. I conscider it a bug fix. People were leaving the game because of this. Y’all released a game that can have 80 people on a map but not see eachother? This is a pure matter of the game wasn’t ready at launch and it took a super long time to rectify the situation. So, no, not an update.

Skill lag. Same as above. Bug fixes, not an update. Your servers were sub-par, or the code wasn’t right, or whatever. It doesn’t matter. What matters is, for me, it only got truly fixed a few months ago. That’s how long we’ve been playing with major skill lag. A year and a half. Not an update. This is still a problem for some, but I think it well into the minority now. However, because it did take so long to finally address, many have left. Those of us who stayed learned to live with it. But again, this is not an update, this is Anet fixing the game. Big difference.

Here’s an analogy (by all means, skip if you like). It’s like buying a new house with no woindows. Well, you thought there was going to be windows, but there wasn’t. You’re money is already gone and the movers already put your stuff in the house. Rather than go through the major hassle of moving out and suing the contracter, he assures you he’ll fix it asap. Well, he doesn’t. Over the course of a year, he installs one window at a time on the 2nd floor. Meanwhile, you learn to live with the leaks when it rains, and the cold in the winter by huddling around the fireplace and the heat in the summer by using fans (you’re AC is useless with these windows open). Then, one day, a year and a half later, the contractor installs all the windows in the 1st floor. At this point, you’re jumping for joy. But really, shouldn’t those windows have been there in the first place? Are they really “updates.”

Continued in the next post.

Orbs. Meh. Sort of. The game came out with orbs. But due to the hacking, instead of trying to figure out how to stop it, which I’m sure you guys were trying, but just couldn’t do it, you got rid of the orbs. This removed a very dynamic aspect of WvW. Whether it was a good or bad dynamic is not at stake. It was there and you removed it. A year later, we got the lake filled in. So, now, no more mercinaries. We have a new aspect to WvW now. (I personally really like it). So update? hard to say. You removed 2 things and replaced it with something else. I think it is better, so…. maybe.

WvW rankings. Yes, an update. Some people asked for something like this, so, I guess y’all felt this would solve the feeling of progression. If you remember, however, it was an absolute fiasco with the arrow cart crap. I personally know people who left just because of that. Now, however, it’s is rather meaningless, especially since y’all merged the rankings to all characters. We have so many points now…. I’m digressing. Yes, it is an update.

Moving the jumping puzzle to a seperate map? Update, very minor. Something we’ve been asking for since launch.

The arena in the samctum. Yes, an update. One that sort of soved the GvG problem, but I really don’t know many guilds who use it.

More rewards for badges. Yes, an update. It wasn’t much when it came out, as it still costs some gold and not all the stats were available (why?), but now, absolutely worthless as we can’t salvage them. Who is going to put runes of strength or Melandru or Bloodlust in WvW gear? No one, unless they are ignorant. New skins? Nope, not an update. Sorry. You loose. These are just karma skins. Nothing new was done. Do you think WvWers are starving for karma?

Thinking… What else….

EotM Close, but no cigar. Real shame, though, the map is gorgeous. As others have said, this doesn’t effect WvW at all (the supply is minor, only effects one map, and is often overlooked). It is a megaserver map, so no RvR. It isn’t an overflow map, so you can go to it seperately. This could have been fantastic, and still can. It would need some balance changes and reworking (just one example, red is totally op with the worm tunnels.).

Que system. Yeah, I’ll give this one as an update.

Hmm… What else…. (Yes, I’m literally just typing as I’m thinking, so forgive)

Tournaments? Yeah, ok, that’s an update. Not much to it though, really.

Alright, so to summerize (by all means, if i’m forgetting something, correct me):

THESE THINGS ARE NOT UPDATES, THEY ARE FIXES TO THE GAME:

Culling
Skill lag
Orbs (putting this in both)

THESE ARE THINGS THAT YOU THINK ARE UPDATES, BUT REALLY ARE NOT

EotM

THESE ARE UPDATES

Orbs
Que interface
Badges Vendor (Worthless now)
Tournaments
Obsidium Sanctum (super minor)
Arena (small, but an update, none the less)
WvW Progression
Siege Abilities

So, looking at that list above, seems pretty paltry, huh? Now, compare that to Living story updates. Think about the effort and money that goes into that. Voice acting (there’s a lot to that). Programming all this stuff. Dungeons that were only out a month or less. Tons of instances. Major, huge, map updates. Tons of new skins. Writers. Lots of new monsters with brand new mechanics. It’s just really hard for me to imagine all the time, effort, money, personell, etc. that goes into all that, compared to orbs, que interface, and badges of honor vendor.

Updates.

rooney.7968:

DevonCarver.5370:

Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054:

It has come to the point that as WvW has not received real updates since launch that we ourselves would not mind doing the testing.

I can appreciate that many people don’t like EotM, but don’t conflate a lack of updates that you personally like with a lack of updates. WvW has added a great deal of content and rewards over just the last calendar year.

Hopefully you will find more you like in future updates and we’ll continue to add to the game.

Talking about EotM being a WvW update is just silly. Dont get me wrong, but EotM have NOTHING to do with WvW.

EotM have close to non existent impact in real matchups. Actually, EotM drain players from the game mode to a big and pointless free for all.

EotM have nothing to do with the weekly matchup. No server rivalry, no real score system to the real matchup… EotM means close to nothing to WvW scene.

How can you say that “World vs World vs World” has added a great deal of content when you drain players from the game mode to a map where the “worlds” (AkA servers) are not there?

Seriously.. when I see a comment like this it just makes clear how ANET deals with wvw scene.
And what to say about megaservers and how it hurts the recruitment scene in general?
And the lack of support to GvGs on the game called GUILD WARS? (dont try to fool anyone with Obsidiam Sanctum, we need a real game mode that allows guilds to fight across tiers)

seriously………

really… i was thinking the same, how can you talk of wvwvw map with this map out PPT? out of the system? its a FFA pve map. if so , put that in the PPT and we will start see what change. At least you can say you are working on PTT tweaking.

the new map is not needed. Just need to alter existing

PvE converted maps would be interesting to test out.

But when it comes to balance, I guess you are trying to balance each BL. But if you have an unbalanced map, but then each BL has that map, isnt that balanced?
I mean even if one map is unbalanced, on one BL Green will have the advantage, in another Red, and in the third Blue, so each server has the same advantage on their own map, which balances itself out.
You might argue that people will stick to their own BL to take advantage of their own map, but then those player who want a challenge will go to other maps.

But as you can see, players want new maps, and they do not care if they are unbalanced, they just want something new to keep them interested in this game.

Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054:

PvE converted maps would be interesting to test out.

But when it comes to balance, I guess you are trying to balance each BL. But if you have an unbalanced map, but then each BL has that map, isnt that balanced?
I mean even if one map is unbalanced, on one BL Green will have the advantage, in another Red, and in the third Blue, so each server has the same advantage on their own map, which balances itself out.
You might argue that people will stick to their own BL to take advantage of their own map, but then those player who want a challenge will go to other maps.

But as you can see, players want new maps, and they do not care if they are unbalanced, they just want something new to keep them interested in this game.

Hmmm, that is true. Even if the PvE map is unbalanced, if there are three copies of it and each server has different starting positions on each map, then its at least equally unbalanced.

So no need to worry about balanced maps – terrain wise.

Although from what Devon said it doesn’t sound like they have the ability to put new maps into WvW even if they had new maps ready. So sad.

Speaking of EotM and WvW, it occurs to me that, like the environs of the three regions have some significant differences, perhaps the three borderlands maps could be significantly different too. Only fear would be that some maps would be more advantageous to some sides than others.

But that being the case, I think it would be cool.

Edited my post to reflect the summary of the body of my post.

Devon:

Thank you for explaining the length of time it takes to create new maps and content. I for one was unaware. I suppose my having seen large custom software projects move a bit faster outside of gaming, makes it harder to relate.

I agree there has been updates and content to WvW.

A few questions which I think the community would love to hear ANET’s views on and I suspect ANET might value the communities views on.

1) Do you believe the updates you provided WvW worked as intended?
2) What do you think was the best received?
3) What missed?
4) Why?
5) How would you change the approach?

My answers:

1) Somewhat. The Seasons did add quite a bit of purpose to WvW even if the implementation had challenges (as anything that involves predicting how thousands of gamers will act can). EOTM largely missed.

2) WvW ranks really worked well. They were not OP and they really anchored a number of key people and commanders creating server leadership (at least on my server). Seasons worked better than not. There was passion around WvW even if a bit of frustration.

3) EOTM (and if talking about PvP) Skyhammer missed. EOTM was designed to be about WvW conflict mechanics and it became more an extension of PvE than really PvP/WvW. Skyhammer was just about the most clever map I have seen in a MMO but became quickly exploitable.

4) ANET seems to have extremely good creativity and frankly the execution of new content really works much better (on whole) than most games. What is missing seems to be an understanding of the player and how they will actually use content (or abuse it). Likewise, the focus on BIG changes in WvW/PvP while focusing on minor (and more frequent) content in PvE (Living Story) gives the impression to gamers (right or wrong) that PvE is more “top of mind”.

5) First, it would be great to have a test server to see exactly how players might exploit or use content. Secondly, having a series of balance improvements (focus on a class at a time or some manageable chunk) with each LS patch would create a perception of balanced effort.

1. In general, I’m glad someone gives us finally at least a little response to our issues and thoughts. I think, I can speak for the community when I say: Thank you!

DevonCarver.5370:

Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054:

It has come to the point that as WvW has not received real updates since launch that we ourselves would not mind doing the testing.

I can appreciate that many people don’t like EotM, but don’t conflate a lack of updates that you personally like with a lack of updates. WvW has added a great deal of content and rewards over just the last calendar year.

Hopefully you will find more you like in future updates and we’ll continue to add to the game.

2. EotM is a pure PvE-based map. Of course, people from WvW don’t like it. You run your rounds and in most cases you don’t need a strategy or skills or good equip to achieve something. Moreover, it has stolen the resources for the real WvW-content.

I mean it’s not a bad map at all, but it’s just not true when someone says: “this is wvw”

DevonCarver.5370:

I’ll make a couple of points here to hopefully clarify this issue.

1) It takes a very large amount of time and effort to make a new map. It’s definitely more than a 6 month process from start to finish. Especially if we are talking about building a new borderlands taking all the thing we’ve learned since the game came out into account. With that in mind it’s a big task. It took us a little under a year to get EotM built and shipped from conception to release. So that is a more reasonable timeline for a new map.

2) The area we added to Obsidian Sanctum was in progress prior to the incident mentioned above and, while it didn’t take a particularly large amount of time, was still a process of over a month. We don’t release map changes without thorough testing. Keep in mind that was just a small change to an existing map, not a completely new map.

3) We currently, unfortunately, don’t have the ability to rotate maps in and out of the game in the manner discussed above. We have talked about this concept many times and it is something we’d like to be able to do long term, but it is not a small task given the technical structure of our game.

All of those things being true, we absolutely want to make new maps for WvW and when we have them ready to talk about and show off, believe me we will. It’s very important to us that when we do release a new WvW map it is a clear example of what we think the ideal WvW map would be. That means we will test the heck out of it and do everything we can to make sure it is even more awesome than the current maps. I realize this isn’t a timeline or an answer to where are more maps, but it’s as much as we can give you right now and it hopefully gives some insight to the size of the task. As I said, as soon as we have more to talk about or show, you will hear it.

Thanks for the info. This is the kind of developer feedback we need more of!

If ONE map takes more than 6 months to gets done, I wonder how much time u guys spent just making maps before release the game. Must have been decades.

most high end players need/want in wvw, competitive area which should be FAIR..

briefly something as Tpvp with larger scale grouping (not only 5 players)
with wvw customizations,

• OFFICAL ranks,
• can not be interupted places to fight..
  etc etc..
  u already know what all means..

About 1 year for a new set of WvW maps… they really need to give you some more help and/or a bigger budget Mr. Carver.

Hope you can give us an update somewhat soon, this game has already lost a lot of active players and many others are losing interest in the current stagnation.

It’s not really an issue of people here enjoying EOTM or not, it’s that EOTM doesn’t promote the long term health of WvWvW. And EOTM isn’t really WvWvW but seems to have taken WvWvW resources. Regardless of our opinions of EOTM’s quality, it’s not WvWvW so no one in this community is going to think of it as a WvWvW update. I think the issue here is a big disconnect.

DevonCarver.5370:

The area we added to Obsidian Sanctum was in progress prior to the incident mentioned above

lol, I’m not buying that.

DevonCarver.5370:

Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054:

It has come to the point that as WvW has not received real updates since launch that we ourselves would not mind doing the testing.

I can appreciate that many people don’t like EotM, but don’t conflate a lack of updates that you personally like with a lack of updates. WvW has added a great deal of content and rewards over just the last calendar year.

Hopefully you will find more you like in future updates and we’ll continue to add to the game.

This is depressing. Clearly, a huge chunk of WvW development resources went into EotM which turned out to be PVE content where PVEers could get their WvW achievment points… it actually hurts WvW and exacerbates server population disparities.
So now, the WvW cookie jar is empty. I interpret this type of response with the comment it takes a year to do a map as expectation setting for us not to expect anything significant added to WvW this year… that sucks. Spoon

We need a Steam-Workshop for GW2, let the community design some stuff, have it gain votes, then let the devs and QA comb over it….

and of course, you know, a Public Test Server >.>

No really. Change the objectives on the current maps. Look at the words written in the past: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/big-changes-coming-to-wvw-matchups/

“when you fight the same worlds with the same tactics you never really get to learn anything new and adapt your strategy. "

The same principle applies to the current maps.

They’re only human, much like the players who just bash the devs.

Really would like some redesigning of Bay, Hills, Garrison, other towers, etc. It would probably take less resources than whole new maps.

Yea, the year count of each map is funny, but absurd. No business operates that way. The design phase of a product is given more resources for design than when the product enters the production phase.

DevonCarver.5370:

Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054:

It has come to the point that as WvW has not received real updates since launch that we ourselves would not mind doing the testing.

I can appreciate that many people don’t like EotM, but don’t conflate a lack of updates that you personally like with a lack of updates. WvW has added a great deal of content and rewards over just the last calendar year.

Hopefully you will find more you like in future updates and we’ll continue to add to the game.

I think most people love EOTM, the fun fights we can have there and the beautiful design. The only problem with it is that it doesn’t affect the WvW score therefore doesn’t encourage defence.

As for your previous post, if it is that long to develop a new map I hope you’ve been working on something for many months already, I can’t really see people playing the same 2 WvW maps for another year…

I just wanted to thank Devon Carter for responding to the comments made
(Whether they were nice or not…. <.<)

Jhawk.1360:

I just wanted to thank Devon Carter for responding to the comments made
(Whether they were nice or not…. <.<)

This isn’t the Devon Carter you’re looking for.

Note to everyone:

Development on a product doesn’t start when you/the public is told about the product. You normally don’t know it exists until it is almost finished. Quit acting like a bunch of self-entitled whiners and be thankful that you get as much content/updates as you get. Compare this game and these devs to any others from any other MMO and you’ll realize how lucky you are that they care this much.

Lol the devs are feisty tonight.

Xillllix.3485:

DevonCarver.5370:

Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054:

It has come to the point that as WvW has not received real updates since launch that we ourselves would not mind doing the testing.

I can appreciate that many people don’t like EotM, but don’t conflate a lack of updates that you personally like with a lack of updates. WvW has added a great deal of content and rewards over just the last calendar year.

Hopefully you will find more you like in future updates and we’ll continue to add to the game.

I think most people love EOTM, the fun fights we can have there and the beautiful design. The only problem with it is that it doesn’t affect the WvW score therefore doesn’t encourage defence.

As for your previous post, if it is that long to develop a new map I hope you’ve been working on something for many months already, I can’t really see people playing the same 2 WvW maps for another year…

EoTM’s problem is the lack of community. Red-Green-Blue means you’re playing with people you don’t know; people you’ll never see again after you log out. So you don’t care about winning or losing.

Don’t expect Anet to learn anything from its failure. They already had a chance: EoTM was basically a megaserver trial run — and Anet didn’t address the community issue at all before introducing megaservers.

DevonCarver.5370:

Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054:

It has come to the point that as WvW has not received real updates since launch that we ourselves would not mind doing the testing.

I can appreciate that many people don’t like EotM, but don’t conflate a lack of updates that you personally like with a lack of updates. WvW has added a great deal of content and rewards over just the last calendar year.

Hopefully you will find more you like in future updates and we’ll continue to add to the game.

It seems like a lot more people like eotm than dislike it. Also seems like a lot more people like eotm than borderlands. Seems like there’s at least a few packed eotm instances 24/7 while borderlands even in t1 feels like a ghost town 90% of the day. It even feels like people who prefer organized wvw over champ farming are in eotm more often now. I seem to be following commanders who are setting up AC defense points and trying to jump enemy groups just as often as champ farming lately.

Eotm has a lot of interesting design elements and actually has the loot and xp gains to keep a stable playing population even at off hours. There’s so many little disparities between eotm and borderlands that don’t help. In borderlands most of the objectives only offer one loot chest while in eotm they all offer two except generators and and guard posts which offer one and zero. The borderlands achievements are patently impossible to complete, there isn’t even a point trying. The numbers are set so high that it should be considered a game bug. You guys say there’s technical issues and you don’t want to wipe everyone’s current credit. But how hard can it really be to write a script that harvests the current AP data from an account and applies it towards a new achievement? Rubbish if you ask me.

There’s a lot going wrong with borderlands and it’s not just map design, which isn’t even that bad if you ask me. You’re not going to draw in long term wvw players with DAoC nostalgia alone. The loot, XP, and APs need to be there too even if that’s not what the most hardcore WvWers care about. If all you want in borderlands is the most hardcore 2% of players then mission is already accomplished and we can we can stop talking about it anyway.

Asgaeroth.6427:

DevonCarver.5370:

Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054:

It has come to the point that as WvW has not received real updates since launch that we ourselves would not mind doing the testing.

I can appreciate that many people don’t like EotM, but don’t conflate a lack of updates that you personally like with a lack of updates. WvW has added a great deal of content and rewards over just the last calendar year.

Hopefully you will find more you like in future updates and we’ll continue to add to the game.

It seems like a lot more people like eotm than dislike it. Also seems like a lot more people like eotm than borderlands. Seems like there’s at least a few packed eotm instances 24/7 while borderlands even in t1 feels like a ghost town 90% of the day. It even feels like people who prefer organized wvw over champ farming are in eotm more often now. I seem to be following commanders who are setting up AC defense points and trying to jump enemy groups just as often as champ farming lately.

Eotm has a lot of interesting design elements and actually has the loot and xp gains to keep a stable playing population even at off hours. There’s so many little disparities between eotm and borderlands that don’t help. In borderlands most of the objectives only offer one loot chest while in eotm they all offer two except generators and and guard posts which offer one and zero. The borderlands achievements are patently impossible to complete, there isn’t even a point trying. The numbers are set so high that it should be considered a game bug. You guys say there’s technical issues and you don’t want to wipe everyone’s current credit. But how hard can it really be to write a script that harvests the current AP data from an account and applies it towards a new achievement? Rubbish if you ask me.

There’s a lot going wrong with borderlands and it’s not just map design, which isn’t even that bad if you ask me. You’re not going to draw in long term wvw players with DAoC nostalgia alone. The loot, XP, and APs need to be there too even if that’s not what the most hardcore WvWers care about. If all you want in borderlands is the most hardcore 2% of players then mission is already accomplished and we can we can stop talking about it anyway.

That is exactly what EotM has over the borderlands, it is basically WvW, without the PPT, with much better loot. They need to make the objectives in the borderlands less stagnant, offer better rewards for defending, and offer more areas in corners of the maps for small roaming groups to aid the server.

I’d just like to point out that while EotM while technically was not an update for WvW, it did take a huge amount of pressure off the queues of top tiers and whines about about barren waste lands in the lower tiers. The WvW community was also very vocal more than a year ago about needing new maps so ANET tried to fix everything at once in one shot.

I like to think of EotM as the fix they had to implement first before they could address the hard stuff (map caps and population imbalance) but I am just a little confused about what is taking phase II so long. Gonna guess it has something to do with seasons and China launch.

Just a reminder to be careful what you wish for. And for goodness sake, stop asking for more maps until we get some of the other stuff fixed. ><

Fear.6358:

Mark Katzbach.9084:

nothing.7941:

DevonCarver.5370:

The area we added to Obsidian Sanctum was in progress prior to the incident mentioned above

lol, I’m not buying that.

Much like science, you don’t have to believe it for it to be true.

lol I love how anet just bashes people and you guys still play the game. sad story

Not the most tactful, but being a flesh and blood human some annoyance is to be expected especially when having to repeat the same thing several times and being called a liar.

Mark Katzbach.9084:

nothing.7941:

DevonCarver.5370:

The area we added to Obsidian Sanctum was in progress prior to the incident mentioned above

lol, I’m not buying that.

Much like science, you don’t have to believe it for it to be true.

Please convert even 1 of the existing maps you have, doesnt have to have towers camps keeps or anything, just allow us to play and fight on it, WvW has stagnated so hard

Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054:

But those arent WvW maps, they are PvE maps.
And dont forget that most of the devs are working on PvE stuff, hence why they get biweekly updates called the Living Story. PvE actually has a TEAM working on things.

They even have 4 teams working on Living Story! TO THE PITCHFOIRKS!

Seriously guys, just embrace Anet hasnt decided to put EotM mechanics onto our beloved Borderlands. EotM just showed us why we should be happy with what we have.

DevonCarver.5370:

Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054:

It has come to the point that as WvW has not received real updates since launch that we ourselves would not mind doing the testing.

I can appreciate that many people don’t like EotM, but don’t conflate a lack of updates that you personally like with a lack of updates. WvW has added a great deal of content and rewards over just the last calendar year.

Hopefully you will find more you like in future updates and we’ll continue to add to the game.

I think that some people (like me) could think they are a lack of updates in WvW.
Added EotM is a great things since we asked for this map since the beta (nearly 3 years now).
Don’t forget that at the start, like Eotn, each Borderlands would be different, and today it still not the case.

Of course, separate the Obsidian was a good thing, like EotN and the news Borderlands. But for the WvW’s players, do u disagree with the fact that they could have a taste of a lack of contents ?

I read u last sentence, and i pray for this new contents

I wish to point my point here as we are getting some response from WvW developers. We all know that the new maps takes a lot a lot of time but at the mean time wvw is bleeding out from players and guilds that everyone knows how much wvw players it had at the start. However you should put a suggestion for a day or 2 to everyone point out his ideas for wvw and you will see what really wvw players wants in this game.

sounds like we need a map where we can build our own maps in a mine craft’ish way!

now, instead of just laying down siege, and gathering wood……you gather wood and build destructible villages on the go!!

Just one large open map – like the original warcraft /ultima online games! ^.^

we build it, we break it! anet stops getting blamed for maps!

Done!

maps are such a big part of the fun with WvW, tho. I hope the dev team can invest in some new ones or creative expansions. I love the EB map, I just wish it could be bigger somehow, maybe more than one castle or similar structure, and another set of towers, camps and stuff.

Just a question about map testing……

For EoTM, you had a list of players that wanted to test and they were allowed to enter the test server with the map.

Could you do something similar but with rewards chests so that players in a tier match, get the same matchup the next week but get a reward invitation for playing the past week to test a map?

And do it for every tier, not just T1, especially not just T1.

Reading between the lines:

No new maps are currently in development for wvw due to lack of any resources devoted to it.

If they do decide to have a new map, it will be at least 6-12 months away.

GvG 5,10,15,20 man maps will never happen despite being Anet’s best chance of making a decent esport out of it and re energising guilds.

the EotM maps are great… don’t confuse map design with game play.

The problem is not the EotM map… the problem is the way in which players have chosen to play the map because they don’t really have anything to play for other than boh and karma.

This is why points and thus defending are important to wvw… without them then the game would just become a big pvd karma train.

Well I think a lot of it stems back to not giving players something to fight for. Do I care if my server loses: Yes but I do realize its out of my hands pretty much, so I don’t put as much stock into it and it loses it competitiveness. There is no pride involved, while I’m proud of my server wining, it’s my server that is wining. I’m getting no recognition for my server winning, no mater how much I do there are plenty of people doing the same.

I want battles were I feel there is something at stake, and in a virtual world, there is only one thing you can really put at stake: My pride

Find a way to do that and matches will be fun again.

Victory.2879:

Reading between the lines:

No new maps are currently in development for wvw due to lack of any resources devoted to it.

If they do decide to have a new map, it will be at least 6-12 months away.

GvG 5,10,15,20 man maps will never happen despite being Anet’s best chance of making a decent esport out of it and re energising guilds.

This makes me so kittening sad. I guess I’m moving to the next game that offers WvW….

grifflyman.8102:

Victory.2879:

Reading between the lines:

No new maps are currently in development for wvw due to lack of any resources devoted to it.

If they do decide to have a new map, it will be at least 6-12 months away.

GvG 5,10,15,20 man maps will never happen despite being Anet’s best chance of making a decent esport out of it and re energising guilds.

This makes me so kittening sad. I guess I’m moving to the next game that offers WvW….

Camelot is still years away unfortunately.

Nymph of Meliai.6739:

the EotM maps are great… don’t confuse map design with game play.

The problem is not the EotM map… the problem is the way in which players have chosen to play the map because they don’t really have anything to play for other than boh and karma.

This is why points and thus defending are important to wvw… without them then the game would just become a big pvd karma train.

That’s like saying Big Rigs isn’t objectively a kitten game because it’s your job as players to just approach it with the right mindset (check out YT).

why make new ones? why not just adjust the maps we already have? for example we change the towers and keeps locations, move parts of the map around, remove the citadel or the big respawn place in the middle no need for it to be big it can be small, and put it close to the enemy’s WP so I wouldn’t have to run to fight them. its just an idea and more can be added . that will be easier and fun to see.

new maps for wvw? no thanks, unless they dont put more vistas or pois inside enemy castles.New players, especialy on low servers will need +999999999 years if luck to complete map.

CureForLiving.5360:

Fear.6358:

Mark Katzbach.9084:

nothing.7941:

DevonCarver.5370:

The area we added to Obsidian Sanctum was in progress prior to the incident mentioned above

lol, I’m not buying that.

Much like science, you don’t have to believe it for it to be true.

lol I love how anet just bashes people and you guys still play the game. sad story

Not the most tactful, but being a flesh and blood human some annoyance is to be expected especially when having to repeat the same thing several times and being called a liar.

I hardly consider that ‘bashing’. A little snarky, perhaps, but also deserved. Being a customer doesn’t entitle one to also be an kitten. I’ll gladly devote more time to GW2 for every time an kitten gets called out by a dev. Besides, Katzbach does make an excellent point about science.

Onwards and upwards to more important matters, I was in a guild that helped beta test the EotM map. Even early on, we saw some awesome potential for open field fights, potential that was never really realized. Was it because of a poor map design? No. EotM actually is cool map. What ruined it was lack of cohesion with the main WvW game mode and, as mentioned in other posts, easy rewards. It’s funny, really. Few nights back a handful of people in my guild were running around EotM ganking the pug mobs, and we were being called out in map chat for actually wanting to — gasp! — fight. Hell, I had one guy whisper me in detail on how Edge is purely for karma training and that if we wanted to kill people, we should go to the main WvW maps. Much like Ron Burgundy, I wasn’t even mad, I was just impressed that such an interesting map had devolved to such a point. No fights? Just karma? Jeeeeesus. It’s like going into a tpvp match and being told not to fight the other team, just run around capping and decapping points. No thanks.

I guess they better get started on a new borderland map, because if they wait any longer there wont be a WvW community.

grifflyman.8102:

I guess they better get started on a new borderland map, because if they wait any longer there wont be a WvW community.

Yeah… this

DevonCarver.5370:

1) It takes a very large amount of time and effort to make a new map. It’s definitely more than a 6 month process from start to finish. Especially if we are talking about building a new borderlands taking all the thing we’ve learned since the game came out into account. With that in mind it’s a big task. It took us a little under a year to get EotM built and shipped from conception to release. So that is a more reasonable timeline for a new map.

Given how poorly setup your maps are, the fact that it takes you a year is just sad. EotM is a bunch of floating islands, how does that take a year to develop? Seems like your system is flawed.