Guild Wars 2

Hey, I am on SoR since last november when it was a T2 server but I played on Darkhaven and EBay before… I remember that there were always zergs in all tiers I have passed but lately T1 is a little too much zergy, maybe it is because of culling fix and now I can really see it as it is… but I feel that now people on T1 are even more likely to follow big groups than roam in small ones.

My question is how is it now on other tiers? Is that so different from T1 I see people from all tiers complaining about zergs… would be cool if we could have some reports about the behavior of zergs in each tier here.

PS: I would like to add that I am not completely against zergs, although I prefer small groups fights and avoid zergs I know that they are needed sometimes.

T2 is also zergfest

It’s exactly the same as it was,despite what people say.Now you can just actually See the people,that’s the only thing that is changed.The zergs are not bigger,they were always this big,and people suddenly get scared from seeing those numbers,and always assuming "were outmanned ! "..while its the exact same case for your opponent.So no,the zergs hasn’t grown larger,we are just able to see them all now.

Caedmon.6798:

It’s exactly the same as it was,despite what people say.Now you can just actually See the people,that’s the only thing that is changed.The zergs are not bigger,they were always this big,and people suddenly get scared from seeing those numbers,and always assuming "were outmanned ! "..while its the exact same case for your opponent.So no,the zergs hasn’t grown larger,we are just able to see them all now.

That’s untrue. From AoN’s point of view, we’ve never seen less small-man action than there has been since the patch. Yes, there used to be 50 man zergs before. But now, instead of a 50 man zerg plus 10, 10 or another 10, it’s just a 80 man zerg.

it really makes a big difference how you play and who you play with.

Take RIOT from Blackgate. Before I started zerging hard I spent a lot of time hanging out with those guys doing small group stuff. They rarely run with groups larger than 10 or so and have a lot of fun.

I know SF from JQ has groups that do this kind of play. Its a bit harder to learn how to play small group stuff in this game but the groups that know how do well.

I’m not saying it won’t be better or easier for you to have fun in T8 on Ferguson’s Crossing or something like that. But the possibility is still there in T1/T2.

The problem, is that there isn’t any downside to zerging. Zergs can move so fast that they can get across the map before another Zerg takes their tower. (As long as you have 1giy in the tower giving out information quickly and a commander willing to interrupt the Zerg train.

Now, it would be better and more efficient to have two 40 man zergs than one 80 man, but people don’t really coordinate that well, especially when most of them are pubs.

I believe there should be a disincentive to zerging, but at the same time, why should people be punished for playing the way they want?

If you’re on SOR then you will notice it even more. Many guilds in SOR have admitted in the past on the forum that they insisted on clumping everyone together in 70+ zergballs since it helps them win open field fights.

If I recall, some even say that they will never split up to defend objectives since they play to win open field fights and having these 70+ zergballs is the most effective way to fight. Their strategy with these 70+ zergballs is that it allows them to overwhelm their opponents in numbers for every fight, especially if the other server run multiple havoc groups or split up to take multiple objectives.

A few guilds from other servers have requested SOR to split up on the forums due to the skill lag issue but SOR basically rejected the idea of splitting up their 70+ zergballs.

I still can find some rare small groups on T1, even some lone roamers… but it is very rare and usually it is a thief… and for me as a Necro, my opinion, it is very boring to fight thieves…

I almost always survive their first burst, but then it is like cat and rat fight, they keep vanishing all the time, they run like crazy, and all that mobility skills… and I dont have all that damage to kill it very fast… and so he goes far enough heals and comes back, vanhishes, goes away and comes back… boring like hell… so usually I just decide to move away.

All tiers have big zergs.

Even T8. Just the zergs at T8 level probably aren’t quite as big as T1 zergs and there probably aren’t as many of them. So there are still opportunities for small man teams to succeed.

The way WvW is implemented, zergs will always be around because it is the most efficient way to flip targets and gain karma/exp.

If you are looking for smaller group opportunities, I would think T8 and T7 would be a good place to look.

I think T5 might actually be a great place for roaming. Tier 8 does not have many people NOT in the Zerg.

jojojoon.8607:

If you’re on SOR then you will notice it even more. Many guilds in SOR have admitted in the past on the forum that they insisted on clumping everyone together in 70+ zergballs since it helps them win open field fights.

If I recall, some even say that they will never split up to defend objectives since they play to win open field fights and having these 70+ zergballs is the most effective way to fight. Their strategy with these 70+ zergballs is that it allows them to overwhelm their opponents in numbers for every fight, especially if the other server run multiple havoc groups or split up to take multiple objectives.

A few guilds from other servers have requested SOR to split up on the forums due to the skill lag issue but SOR basically rejected the idea of splitting up their 70+ zergballs.

Never heard of that… but I will not deny it, I see a lot of big zergs on SoR, but it is not different from BG and JQ. Both have incredible large zergs that I dont see spliting up in any moment.

albotelho.2931:

jojojoon.8607:

If you’re on SOR then you will notice it even more. Many guilds in SOR have admitted in the past on the forum that they insisted on clumping everyone together in 70+ zergballs since it helps them win open field fights.

If I recall, some even say that they will never split up to defend objectives since they play to win open field fights and having these 70+ zergballs is the most effective way to fight. Their strategy with these 70+ zergballs is that it allows them to overwhelm their opponents in numbers for every fight, especially if the other server run multiple havoc groups or split up to take multiple objectives.

A few guilds from other servers have requested SOR to split up on the forums due to the skill lag issue but SOR basically rejected the idea of splitting up their 70+ zergballs.

Never heard of that… but I will not deny it, I see a lot of big zergs on SoR, but it is not different from BG and JQ. Both have incredible large zergs that I dont see spliting up in any moment.

I saw it in some of the old weekly update threads. Some guilds from BG and JQ were requesting SOR to split up due the massive skill lag whenever large forces clash. SOR’s response was: We only play for the fight so we won’t split up our 70+ zergballs.

If you read other forums other than here, SOR is actually known to be the “zergiest” server in tier 1. I’m not talking about coverage. I’m talking about massing everyone on the map to one area for a fight.

The zerg in tier 5 is delicious thx for asking!

T8 is currently zergier than T7 was when Gates of Madness moved down. Zergier than I like, but I have no experience with higher tiers. I take it that SF has brought the big zerg to T7, but cannot speak from experience.

jojojoon.8607:

If you’re on SOR then you will notice it even more. Many guilds in SOR have admitted in the past on the forum that they insisted on clumping everyone together in 70+ zergballs since it helps them win open field fights.

If I recall, some even say that they will never split up to defend objectives since they play to win open field fights and having these 70+ zergballs is the most effective way to fight. Their strategy with these 70+ zergballs is that it allows them to overwhelm their opponents in numbers for every fight, especially if the other server run multiple havoc groups or split up to take multiple objectives.

A few guilds from other servers have requested SOR to split up on the forums due to the skill lag issue but SOR basically rejected the idea of splitting up their 70+ zergballs.

That is how you lose when servers are even numbers. A server splitting forming in example four 20 man groups will cap more than one 80 man group. The server with the 80 man group is probably not defending as well.

I know on my server the times we split and had multiple commanders with decent groups we did a whole lot better than the whole server follow one icon.

Our situation is so bad that we don’t call it zerging anymore because zerg is just too tiny word, it’s called ironing nowadays.

It’d be cool if people posted actual number counts instead of “zerg”.

Iron is +60 and zerg is 30-60.

Debois Guilbert.6413:

T8 is currently zergier than T7 was when Gates of Madness moved down. Zergier than I like, but I have no experience with higher tiers. I take it that SF has brought the big zerg to T7, but cannot speak from experience.

Yes, we brought our zerg (and all our other kickkittengroups) to T7.

T4 is zergy in EB. Zerg balls roll anywhere from 30-50 deep. The borderland fights are typically in the 15-20’s from what I have seen. Great match up with SBI, CD, SOS. BSW and LX like to run in smaller groups on SBI. Always lots of kittening fun. Can’t see how running in a 70-80 man zerg is enjoyable in any way.

I remember when zergs were called armies.

Zergs were never called armies don’t try to legitimize it more than the game already does.

In T5 you see mostly small groups of 5-10 players roaming. If you see 10-15 here, it means somebody’s aiming for a tower. If you see more than 15+ people in a zerg, somebody’s keep is being aimed at. Though sometimes it gets really ugly and you see zergs of 50+ people (not even kidding, that’s when you KNOW kitten’s going down).

Jeda.5209:

jojojoon.8607:

If you’re on SOR then you will notice it even more. Many guilds in SOR have admitted in the past on the forum that they insisted on clumping everyone together in 70+ zergballs since it helps them win open field fights.

If I recall, some even say that they will never split up to defend objectives since they play to win open field fights and having these 70+ zergballs is the most effective way to fight. Their strategy with these 70+ zergballs is that it allows them to overwhelm their opponents in numbers for every fight, especially if the other server run multiple havoc groups or split up to take multiple objectives.

A few guilds from other servers have requested SOR to split up on the forums due to the skill lag issue but SOR basically rejected the idea of splitting up their 70+ zergballs.

That is how you lose when servers are even numbers. A server splitting forming in example four 20 man groups will cap more than one 80 man group. The server with the 80 man group is probably not defending as well.

I know on my server the times we split and had multiple commanders with decent groups we did a whole lot better than the whole server follow one icon.

this is wrong. With server teamspeak and scouts a 60-80 man zerg can quick cap points and crush attacks faster than a 20 man group can cap a point. 20 man groups aren’t capping much when they are spawn walking. They also aren’t capping much when a 70 man zerg is knocking on your keeps inner. When someone dies in a 20 man group, they are dead. When someone dies in a 70 man group they are instantly back up

T3 has become the home of the monsterblobs…!

We have seen enemy zergs of 100+ players regularly… after the patch.

AR always had zergs of 50-80 players but since RS moved up into our tier theyve created zergs of epic proprtions of around 100 players, this means we must all blob up to compete against it.

The zerging is so bad that u lag CONSTANTLY on some maps because 2 zergs r in the same place on the map somewhere. Basically u dont even have to be close to the zerg for the map to lag like crazy.

Im on Piken btw.

Edit: here is a little vid from a couple of weeks ago for your viewing pleasure… its worth watching!

The zergs are just as big in every tier.

There are just more of them the higher you go in tiers.

Gab Superstar.4059:

The zergs are just as big in every tier.

There are just more of them the higher you go in tiers.

Thats exactly the kind of information I want to confirm, that it is not that different in the lower tiers, I am not planning to move out of t1 now but if there were a great difference in the middle or lower tiers I could consider the idea. I understand that zergs are the most effective way to win fast, and sometimes it even can be fun, but it is not my favorite playstyle.

RyuDragnier.9476:

In T5 you see mostly small groups of 5-10 players roaming. If you see 10-15 here, it means somebody’s aiming for a tower. If you see more than 15+ people in a zerg, somebody’s keep is being aimed at. Though sometimes it gets really ugly and you see zergs of 50+ people (not even kidding, that’s when you KNOW kitten’s going down).

According to this it seems t5 is your least zergy tier (maybe t6). T8 easily rolls about 50 man zergs on an hourly basis.

Gab Superstar.4059:

The zergs are just as big in every tier.

There are just more of them the higher you go in tiers.

It’s not necessarily that there are more of them, since maps should hold the same number of people, but as you move up through the tiers zergs do seem to become more and more massive, and it gets harder and harder to find a timezone when you won’t be facing groups of 60-80 roaming every map. In lower tiers with less coverage, you’ll at least find times where there may only be 20 people on an entire map from each server, so even if they decide to “zerg” together it’s nothing like the standard, 24/7 zerging that you see in tier 1.

But yeah, I’ve played since beta, and been in tiers 4 through 1, and the scouting reports for each tier tend to sound like this:

Tier 4: “inc to Lowlands Supply camp, camp-flipping group, 10+”

Tier 3: “inc to Lowlands Supply camp, zerg of 30+”

Tier 2: “inc to Lowlands Supply camp, huge zerg, 50+!”

Tier 1: “inc to Lowlands Supply camp, SoR zerg”
“How many?”
“uuhhh… all of them”

That’s not a shot at SoR, btw, you could substitute any current Tier 1 server name there. And I know that there are sizable zergs in every tier now, but in Tier 1 it does seem much more common for groups to full-zerg everything , all the time…

This whole WXP thing isn’t helping the pure-zerg entality either.

You do not get WXP for sentrying.
You do not get WXP for running yaks.
You do not get WXP for ticking siege.
You do not get WXP for building siege.
You do not get WXP for repairing when not under attack.

So, what’s left? Run around with the big zerg. Pfffft.

Thanks for making this post, albotelho. My friends and I have been wondering the same thing. We have been on SoR since the first day of the headstart. We prefer small group skirmish game play (that isn’t spent babysitting a node) and are finding it harder to do so in Tier 1. The random (yet frequent) skill lag is making it even worse and some have talked about quitting GW2 all together because of it.

Tallis.5607:

This whole WXP thing isn’t helping the pure-zerg entality either.

You do not get WXP for sentrying.
You do not get WXP for running yaks.
You do not get WXP for ticking siege.
You do not get WXP for building siege.
You do not get WXP for repairing when not under attack.

So, what’s left? Run around with the big zerg. Pfffft.

I dont think all these actions should give you WXP, imagine those “spies” that build rams just to drain our supplies he would gain WXP for that… dont think it would work well.

I really did not paid attention to WXP quantity, but probably you gain more for attacking than defending… they could change this… give more WXP for defense.

I am not sure if I understood what you meant about sentrying, but getting sentries spots does give you WXP.

Goblin Beet Farmer.3045:

Thanks for making this post, albotelho. My friends and I have been wondering the same thing. We have been on SoR since the first day of the headstart. We prefer small group skirmish game play (that isn’t spent babysitting a node) and are finding it harder to do so in Tier 1. The random (yet frequent) skill lag is making it even worse and some have talked about quitting GW2 all together because of it.

No problem.

Hope you guys do not give up from the game.

Convenant.7092:

Caedmon.6798:

It’s exactly the same as it was,despite what people say.Now you can just actually See the people,that’s the only thing that is changed.The zergs are not bigger,they were always this big,and people suddenly get scared from seeing those numbers,and always assuming "were outmanned ! "..while its the exact same case for your opponent.So no,the zergs hasn’t grown larger,we are just able to see them all now.

That’s untrue. From AoN’s point of view, we’ve never seen less small-man action than there has been since the patch. Yes, there used to be 50 man zergs before. But now, instead of a 50 man zerg plus 10, 10 or another 10, it’s just a 80 man zerg.

This is exactly what we see in T3 since the patch

As everyone has stated, the zergs are on every tier. However, the quantity and quality of small man groups differs a lot throughout the tiers. On T3/4 we were finding that we became the main zerg after prime time with just two groups! The pugs would start to follow us, and if we didn’t PvDoor our team would lose everything on a map.

The second problem that we experienced in T3/4 was that after prime time the competition really dwindled. We can easily take twice our numbers. This created a problem for us because it forced the enemy to either quit or bring more people. Our small skirmishing group became the reason the enemy zerged! So as evenings went on the small groups would either log off or they would ball up in a zerg to beat us. Either way wasn’t very much fun.

T1/2 doesn’t have these particular problems usually. The constant zerging allows small skirmish groups to do what they want. It’s actually quite nice as long as you can kite those massive zergs (which isn’t hard, and often entertaining). The more people in general on a map, the more chances of finding smaller groups, even with this game rewarding the zergs in every way possible. All we need is a little good luck in finding each other!

I do agree completely that there have been a lot less small groups since the patch.

Acelerion.6820:

Zergs were never called armies don’t try to legitimize it more than the game already does.

Dear fool, I am not speaking just about this game. Armies are masses of people gathered together for the same belligerent purpose. kitten like you use the term as some sort of pejorative to describe enemies who have more numbers than you causing you to lose. Call it a zerg if you want but it’s a stupid and overused term used by people who are angry that they are outnumbered..

Spoken like a true zergling

Otokomae.9356:

Gab Superstar.4059:

The zergs are just as big in every tier.

There are just more of them the higher you go in tiers.

It’s not necessarily that there are more of them, since maps should hold the same number of people, but as you move up through the tiers zergs do seem to become more and more massive, and it gets harder and harder to find a timezone when you won’t be facing groups of 60-80 roaming every map. In lower tiers with less coverage, you’ll at least find times where there may only be 20 people on an entire map from each server, so even if they decide to “zerg” together it’s nothing like the standard, 24/7 zerging that you see in tier 1.

But yeah, I’ve played since beta, and been in tiers 4 through 1, and the scouting reports for each tier tend to sound like this:

Tier 4: “inc to Lowlands Supply camp, camp-flipping group, 10+”

Tier 3: “inc to Lowlands Supply camp, zerg of 30+”

Tier 2: “inc to Lowlands Supply camp, huge zerg, 50+!”

Tier 1: “inc to Lowlands Supply camp, SoR zerg”
“How many?”
“uuhhh… all of them”

That’s not a shot at SoR, btw, you could substitute any current Tier 1 server name there. And I know that there are sizable zergs in every tier now, but in Tier 1 it does seem much more common for groups to full-zerg everything , all the time…

Interesting coming from a T1 player. Have you played anything but T1 since culling fix? I think it speaks for itself that with less coverage the zergs are less of a nuisance since you can’t have 50+ zergs around the clock, hence why I said there are less of them in lower tiers.

But don’t mistake that for the fact that 90% of the players on a map will blob up regardless of tier.

Bloodlet.1427:

Acelerion.6820:

Zergs were never called armies don’t try to legitimize it more than the game already does.

Dear fool, I am not speaking just about this game. Armies are masses of people gathered together for the same belligerent purpose. kitten like you use the term as some sort of pejorative to describe enemies who have more numbers than you causing you to lose. Call it a zerg if you want but it’s a stupid and overused term used by people who are angry that they are outnumbered..

Technically I think “Army” implies some sort of organization is involved. Zerg is a more accurate term to describe the mindless 80 man masses that we see in WvW. Either way, a zerg is a zerg. If I’m rolling with 70 friendlies and stomping enemies, it’s still a zerg. And still boring.

Even when I’m winning in a zerg I find it so boring that I’d prefer to go solo, throwing myself into groups of 5 and seeing how many I can down before they kill me. Even that’s more interesting to me than rolling around mindlessly spamming skills and hoping you hit something.

The Rooster.2615:

Bloodlet.1427:

Acelerion.6820:

Zergs were never called armies don’t try to legitimize it more than the game already does.

Dear fool, I am not speaking just about this game. Armies are masses of people gathered together for the same belligerent purpose. kitten like you use the term as some sort of pejorative to describe enemies who have more numbers than you causing you to lose. Call it a zerg if you want but it’s a stupid and overused term used by people who are angry that they are outnumbered..

Technically I think “Army” implies some sort of organization is involved. Zerg is a more accurate term to describe the mindless 80 man masses that we see in WvW. Either way, a zerg is a zerg. If I’m rolling with 70 friendlies and stomping enemies, it’s still a zerg. And still boring.

Even when I’m winning in a zerg I find it so boring that I’d prefer to go solo, throwing myself into groups of 5 and seeing how many I can down before they kill me. Even that’s more interesting to me than rolling around mindlessly spamming skills and hoping you hit something.

Here’s the thing about people who call others “zergers”; they tend to have no idea how much organization and coordination is involved in the enemies movements because you can’t get close enough without becoming a target and have no idea about what is going on in their ventrilo/teamspeak/mumble comms. People who die to a mass of enemies just call it a zerg as a pejorative to make themselves feels better about losing as if somehow it makes it better because at least they and not the enemy was playing in an organized manner when they really don’t know.

Anyway I’m done arguing semantics. The purpose of my original post wasn’t to derail the thread.

I’ve seen a lot of people Bragg about their zergin acumen. Stories of positioning and omg its so hard to stick up and spam wells ect to justify the massive zerg balls.

When these people run into 5 of us with anything resembling even numbers they get flat stroked. And I’m sure there are much better 5 mans than us out there.

So I’m going to disagree about skill requirements.

The zergs are awesome on T1, loads of fun! Bring on the bags!!

I just like the greater variables in large conflicts. Though I enjoy spvp too, just doesnt hold my interest as long.

It is almost an entirely different way of gaming though, so wvwvw just might not be for everybody.

T7 used to be a great place for small mans…not so much apparently.

T8 is zergy around NA primetime, other parts of the day are awesome, biggest groups are 20 people.

Darkjoy.3092:

Jeda.5209:

jojojoon.8607:

If you’re on SOR then you will notice it even more. Many guilds in SOR have admitted in the past on the forum that they insisted on clumping everyone together in 70+ zergballs since it helps them win open field fights.

If I recall, some even say that they will never split up to defend objectives since they play to win open field fights and having these 70+ zergballs is the most effective way to fight. Their strategy with these 70+ zergballs is that it allows them to overwhelm their opponents in numbers for every fight, especially if the other server run multiple havoc groups or split up to take multiple objectives.

A few guilds from other servers have requested SOR to split up on the forums due to the skill lag issue but SOR basically rejected the idea of splitting up their 70+ zergballs.

That is how you lose when servers are even numbers. A server splitting forming in example four 20 man groups will cap more than one 80 man group. The server with the 80 man group is probably not defending as well.

I know on my server the times we split and had multiple commanders with decent groups we did a whole lot better than the whole server follow one icon.

this is wrong. With server teamspeak and scouts a 60-80 man zerg can quick cap points and crush attacks faster than a 20 man group can cap a point. 20 man groups aren’t capping much when they are spawn walking. They also aren’t capping much when a 70 man zerg is knocking on your keeps inner. When someone dies in a 20 man group, they are dead. When someone dies in a 70 man group they are instantly back up

This is an overly simplistic view that assumes that the 20 man groups are less able to use teamspeak and scouts. Your post speaks of a profound lack of creativity in the game. The zerg ball meta is just simple and easy and that is why is it popular, that does not mean it is the only way to play, nor does it mean it has no counter for those willing to play better rather then just get bigger.

Niim.9260:

Darkjoy.3092:

Jeda.5209:

jojojoon.8607:

If you’re on SOR then you will notice it even more. Many guilds in SOR have admitted in the past on the forum that they insisted on clumping everyone together in 70+ zergballs since it helps them win open field fights.

If I recall, some even say that they will never split up to defend objectives since they play to win open field fights and having these 70+ zergballs is the most effective way to fight. Their strategy with these 70+ zergballs is that it allows them to overwhelm their opponents in numbers for every fight, especially if the other server run multiple havoc groups or split up to take multiple objectives.

A few guilds from other servers have requested SOR to split up on the forums due to the skill lag issue but SOR basically rejected the idea of splitting up their 70+ zergballs.

That is how you lose when servers are even numbers. A server splitting forming in example four 20 man groups will cap more than one 80 man group. The server with the 80 man group is probably not defending as well.

I know on my server the times we split and had multiple commanders with decent groups we did a whole lot better than the whole server follow one icon.

this is wrong. With server teamspeak and scouts a 60-80 man zerg can quick cap points and crush attacks faster than a 20 man group can cap a point. 20 man groups aren’t capping much when they are spawn walking. They also aren’t capping much when a 70 man zerg is knocking on your keeps inner. When someone dies in a 20 man group, they are dead. When someone dies in a 70 man group they are instantly back up

This is an overly simplistic view that assumes that the 20 man groups are less able to use teamspeak and scouts. Your post speaks of a profound lack of creativity in the game. The zerg ball meta is just simple and easy and that is why is it popular, that does not mean it is the only way to play, nor does it mean it has no counter for those willing to play better rather then just get bigger.

I agree with this, numerous times this week we have run into larger numbers, we were able to wipe them on numerous occasions because we had better strategies and more coordination. Although it does make it much harder to take a keep when you are outnumbered, it is totally possible if you have a good group.

Boulderbolg.3460:

As everyone has stated, the zergs are on every tier. However, the quantity and quality of small man groups differs a lot throughout the tiers. On T3/4 we were finding that we became the main zerg after prime time with just two groups! The pugs would start to follow us, and if we didn’t PvDoor our team would lose everything on a map.

The second problem that we experienced in T3/4 was that after prime time the competition really dwindled. We can easily take twice our numbers. This created a problem for us because it forced the enemy to either quit or bring more people. Our small skirmishing group became the reason the enemy zerged! So as evenings went on the small groups would either log off or they would ball up in a zerg to beat us. Either way wasn’t very much fun.

T1/2 doesn’t have these particular problems usually. The constant zerging allows small skirmish groups to do what they want. It’s actually quite nice as long as you can kite those massive zergs (which isn’t hard, and often entertaining). The more people in general on a map, the more chances of finding smaller groups, even with this game rewarding the zergs in every way possible. All we need is a little good luck in finding each other!

I do agree completely that there have been a lot less small groups since the patch.

This has been our experience on T2 as well, though it seems to work better in EB, with the maze-like map.

I like your optimism. I hope you never have the miss fortune to face Sanctum of Rall to see im right

Darkjoy.3092:

I like your optimism. I hope you never have the miss fortune to face Sanctum of Rall to see im right

Already done on a number of occasions and I have fought with and against many of the guilds on SoR in past games.

pre culling fix /yawn . come to T1 now with your 20 man and have fun maybe killing yaks

The Rooster.2615:

Technically I think “Army” implies some sort of organization is involved. Zerg is a more accurate term to describe the mindless 80 man masses that we see in WvW.

According to this though all the large groups in tier 1 would be “armies” as they all have some sort of organization. All of the T1 servers have commanders leading the maps and communication both voice and across /t and /m chat.

I don’t care what anyone calls it, but that is technically some sort of organization.

I feel people too often look at a massive group of organized individuals and call them a mindless zerg. Large groups in WvW very often have leadership and some degree of organization. Its usually the group of 10 fighting at stonemist gate for 3 hours at a time achieving nothing that are unorganized.

At times on some servers there are no commanders on the map and there is noone in voice comms and there is no real organization but on every T1 server that happens much less often than not.