Guild Wars 2

A little thing that I have learnt playing mostly wvw with thiefs running around is that you should not complain about being beaten in a 1v1 unless you are lvl 80 and full exotics . Any skilled lvl 80 of any class should be able to take out a scaled player and even at 80 the difference in greens to exotics is a lot. Once you get to 80 and full exotics then it becomes more a even playing field where you can win vs any other classed based on skill and build ( if I play support build I never expect to win a 1v1 agains a person traited for a 1v1’s as most theifs appear to be ). Am I saying some things are not over powered, No im not. But it is only when your gear is maxed out vs another maxed out player that you can start to assess the balance of a class . Also note I have never played a thief past lvl 7 and main a shatter mesmer and just had 10 great 1v1’s with a skilled thief where any one of us made a mistake and we were both dead with it 50/50 wins to each .
Just my 2c

How to kill the thief in WvW scenario

Jump from stonemist and hope he jumps too

Grischu.3869:

How to kill the thief in WvW scenario

Jump from stonemist and hope he jumps too

Wait that might actually work BRB going jumping

jportell.2197:

Okay seriously? Warrior 100blades can do 28k Damage… No one is calling for a nerf. I have gotten burned down by a warrior faster than any thief… Mesmers MW with illusionary persona and blurred frenzy will also destroy you. Engineers have supply drop plus a bagillion weapon skills with their kits. Necros have those fiend thingys and can throw a bagillion conditions at once plus FEAR you right off a cliff to your doom. guardians can pass EVERY single boon available to their allies. Ele’s like engineers can have a bagillion weapon skills and D/D have insane burst dmg as well. Thieves have stealth (the base mechanic of the class) Rangers have the LONGEST range weapon in the game plus insane damage with the GS.

Stealth is not the base mechanic of the thief profession, Steal and Initiative are. Of the weapon sets accessible to the thief, nearly half don’t have organic access to stealth (the vast majority if you count non-viable weapon sets). Stealth is a play style choice and an excellent specialization option for thieves, but it is not a base profession mechanic.

Yes, all professions can burst people down in a couple seconds with the right gear/spec, the main difference is that thieves can be more mobile when doing so. If anything is overpowered in WvW, it is mobility, not stealth.

The time to kill or burst on a thief in wvw combined with stealth and culling gives them an unfair advantage over other players.

If they want to have stealth then they should have to sacrifice some burst. It just seems the profession is a little unbalanced atm.

Drew.1865:

If they want to have stealth then they should have to sacrifice some burst.

How would you propose this be accomplished?

Tulisin.6945:

Drew.1865:

If they want to have stealth then they should have to sacrifice some burst.

How would you propose this be accomplished?

I have no idea because I think if it happened it would break the class so I just let them burst my toon if I can’t escape or get lucky and get a bad thief.

It’s just frustrating because they can burst you down so quickly.

Drew.1865:

Tulisin.6945:

Drew.1865:

If they want to have stealth then they should have to sacrifice some burst.

How would you propose this be accomplished?

I have no idea because I think if it happened it would break the class so I just let them burst my toon if I can’t escape or get lucky and get a bad thief.

It’s just frustrating because they can burst you down so quickly.

I’m sorry, but again, if you are playing Elementalist and you cannot escape a thief, or outheal and kill a thief in a straight 1 on 1, then you’re doing something wrong. There are bunker dagger + dagger Ele specs that are nearly impossible for a thief to kill unless caught already hurt.

Because it’s WvW, is it possible you are fighting at a gear disadvantage?

“How to kill a Thief in WvW?”

1. Be a beserker glass cannon Warrior
2. Have endure pain and frenzy up
3. Let thief attack you
4. Pop endure pain and frenzy
5. Cripple and melt Theif

Spartyr.6795:

Drew.1865:

Tulisin.6945:

Drew.1865:

If they want to have stealth then they should have to sacrifice some burst.

How would you propose this be accomplished?

I have no idea because I think if it happened it would break the class so I just let them burst my toon if I can’t escape or get lucky and get a bad thief.

It’s just frustrating because they can burst you down so quickly.

I’m sorry, but again, if you are playing Elementalist and you cannot escape a thief, or outheal and kill a thief in a straight 1 on 1, then you’re doing something wrong. There are bunker dagger + dagger Ele specs that are nearly impossible for a thief to kill unless caught already hurt.

Because it’s WvW, is it possible you are fighting at a gear disadvantage?

Who said I was dying to them on my elementalist? Actually one killed me on my Mesmer but my Mesmer is level 60 and even though I am scaled to 80 and my Mesmer is in all rares this thief was level 80 and in exotic gear.

If I was playing dagger dagger on my ele he wouldn’t have killed me or at least not easily. The thief burst damage combined with the traiting for permanent stealth and initiative is a little OP.

Many of you claimed to know how to kill thief, I would say that is bull crap because you haven’t even scratch the surface of a powerful thief. I myself have killed many thief, the bad to decent one that is. Against a thief that know what to do, sorry you are out of luck. Not all thief goes dagger, the good one know this. Good thief will go for pistols and can still do plenty of dps with rendering assistance. If you’re a warrior that go pure dps? Well all they have to do is wait for your measly 5 second balance stance to go off and you’ll die in probably 5 seconds or less. Want to do a tank build? Sorry to disappoint but you will not be able to take him down with low dps, even if you managed to stop his bursts, your HP at this point is down to probably 2/10 of your 30k HP so it wont be long before he finishes you off while you’re still trying to look for him.

Again, for those of you that claimed to know how to kill thief? You are probably killing the bad-decent thief

Tulisin.6945:

Drew.1865:

If they want to have stealth then they should have to sacrifice some burst.

How would you propose this be accomplished?

Look here for starters:

My personal vote is not to kill thief burst/stealth builds, but to just make it harder to pull off so its not just a matter of spamming a few buttons for a 2-3 second kill. It should take several rapid, various attacks, multiple CCs mixed in, key positioning (at least BS requires this), and timing (NOT SPAMMING) to down someone in several (5-6) seconds. But hey, I think most burst builds are OP in this game from many professions. I’d rather see lower damage skills with lower CDs across the board.

It’s really not a hard concept, and applying it to the thief would mean lowering damage on certain skills (mostly auto attacks including stealth skills, but also probably CnD and HS too), while giving their weapons skills (especially melee weapons) better CC and defensive tools (weakness, daze, and vigor come to mind), so they don’t get blown up when their burst doesn’t instakill everyone with less than 2000 T/V.

Drew.1865:

Spartyr.6795:

Drew.1865:

Tulisin.6945:

Drew.1865:

If they want to have stealth then they should have to sacrifice some burst.

How would you propose this be accomplished?

I have no idea because I think if it happened it would break the class so I just let them burst my toon if I can’t escape or get lucky and get a bad thief.

It’s just frustrating because they can burst you down so quickly.

I’m sorry, but again, if you are playing Elementalist and you cannot escape a thief, or outheal and kill a thief in a straight 1 on 1, then you’re doing something wrong. There are bunker dagger + dagger Ele specs that are nearly impossible for a thief to kill unless caught already hurt.

Because it’s WvW, is it possible you are fighting at a gear disadvantage?

Who said I was dying to them on my elementalist? Actually one killed me on my Mesmer but my Mesmer is level 60 and even though I am scaled to 80 and my Mesmer is in all rares this thief was level 80 and in exotic gear.

If I was playing dagger dagger on my ele he wouldn’t have killed me or at least not easily. The thief burst damage combined with the traiting for permanent stealth and initiative is a little OP.

Just to clear up though, there is no build that does all of these things.

Perma stealth requires points into the Toughness, Vitality, and Condition damage lines. It’s possible to trait for perma stealth, but you trade your burst potential.

It’s the same with burst and initiative regen. The uber backstab instagib build requires 30 points in Crit, and 25+ points in Power. It’s possible you can trait for 3 extra initiative points in total, but nothing to regen initiative or give you permanent initiative.

There’s just so much misinformation. It really feels like a witch hunt.

Why do people think they should be able to 1v1 a thief?

I play a GC thief and I can’t do kitten when I’m in a ZvZ situation unless I find some poor dude who got lost from his allies. Do you see me complain about this? No.

Every class has their strengths and weaknesses, and that is how it should be. Look at WoW. They gradually changed the classes to the point where every one of them was pretty much equal, and it was terrible. From the start all of the classes had really unique and interesting mechanics, they had signature abilities that you had to take in mind when fighting them and stuff like that. They no longer do, and the PvP has suffered a lot for it.

You guys complaining about being ganked 1v1 by a thief might not realize it, but what you seem to want for the game, a situation where every class is equal, will actually ruin the game, not help it.

vinasu.8952:

Many of you claimed to know how to kill thief, I would say that is bull crap because you haven’t even scratch the surface of a powerful thief. I myself have killed many thief, the bad to decent one that is. Against a thief that know what to do, sorry you are out of luck. Not all thief goes dagger, the good one know this. Good thief will go for pistols and can still do plenty of dps with rendering assistance. If you’re a warrior that go pure dps? Well all they have to do is wait for your measly 5 second balance stance to go off and you’ll die in probably 5 seconds or less. Want to do a tank build? Sorry to disappoint but you will not be able to take him down with low dps, even if you managed to stop his bursts, your HP at this point is down to probably 2/10 of your 30k HP so it wont be long before he finishes you off while you’re still trying to look for him.

Again, for those of you that claimed to know how to kill thief? You are probably killing the bad-decent thief

Did you just say that a Thief will take off 30k HP from a Warrior in under 5 seconds using Pistols? I think that Thief’s name was William Wallace.

jportell.2197:

Stop blaming skilled players.

not sure why but i am skilled too !!! only on my thief
i can troll to death an full party of 5 players with my thief , and i will kill them all , by turn at the first mistake.
but i am not skilled on my warrior and guardian cause i got 0 chances to fight vs an 5 players group , ah in fact i got 30% chance to surive vs 2 players with 1 of those classes and 95% with my thief vs 5 players
Must be skill related

Gab Superstar.4059:

Why do people think they should be able to 1v1 a thief?

I play a GC thief and I can’t do kitten when I’m in a ZvZ situation unless I find some poor dude who got lost from his allies. Do you see me complain about this? No.

Every class has their strengths and weaknesses, and that is how it should be. Look at WoW. They gradually changed the classes to the point where every one of them was pretty much equal, and it was terrible. From the start all of the classes had really unique and interesting mechanics, they had signature abilities that you had to take in mind when fighting them and stuff like that. They no longer do, and the PvP has suffered a lot for it.

You guys complaining about being ganked 1v1 by a thief might not realize it, but what you seem to want for the game, a situation where every class is equal, will actually ruin the game, not help it.

i saw on thief forum, an boy who made arround 150 kills in 7 min video with shortbow, ZvZ
He wass GC thief, with 11 k hp and 7k aoe clusters

Gab Superstar.4059:

Why do people think they should be able to 1v1 a thief?

I play a GC thief and I can’t do kitten when I’m in a ZvZ situation unless I find some poor dude who got lost from his allies. Do you see me complain about this? No.

Every class has their strengths and weaknesses, and that is how it should be. Look at WoW. They gradually changed the classes to the point where every one of them was pretty much equal, and it was terrible. From the start all of the classes had really unique and interesting mechanics, they had signature abilities that you had to take in mind when fighting them and stuff like that. They no longer do, and the PvP has suffered a lot for it.

You guys complaining about being ganked 1v1 by a thief might not realize it, but what you seem to want for the game, a situation where every class is equal, will actually ruin the game, not help it.

There’s so much wrong in your post.

First you assume that only the thief is built around 1v1, that is not the case.

Second, if that was the case, then there’s something wrong in the game design where only one class can be built around 1v1 significantly more efficiently than other classes.

Third, Balance does not make the game dull, and I can’t change from WoW cause I didn’t play it. but listen, this seems to be beyond the understanding of most people, but extremes (e.g. glass canon builds, perma invis build, bunker build etc…) are an excuse for variation. When you bring numbers closers where people can’t build for extremes, then you have to make up that by making unique mechanics. Extremes give the illusion of variety.

Fourth, and finally, people want all classes to be balanced effectively for both large battles and skirmishes so everyone can have options to build their class as they desire. No, I do not agree with you saying thieves are useless in zerg vs zerg, shortbow deals awesome AoE damage and you also have dagger storm for nasty situations. But that is not the point, whether thieves are useless in large battles is irrelevant to it’s balance in small scale battles. All classes should be equally effective in both depending on their build. Saying the strength of this class is 1v1 and the strength of that class is ZvZ is another excuse for the lack of variety. Being good for 1v1 or ZvZ should depend on your build not your class choice; all classes should have builds that make them able to do either or (or balanced build for both). And again, I disagree that thieves are no good for that, they might not be the best at it, but they are not the worst either. Cluster is one of the highest DPS spells for the size of it’s AoE…and it has no cooldown. It does have a crappy animation though depending on the angle. Dagger Storm is still one of the best AoE spells on the game despite it’s nerfed damage…the projectile reflection still makes up for that big time.

And to all the people who are giving guidelines for not losing against a thief, this thread was about “killing” a thief. I rarely lose to a thief on my mesmer, ele or necro…I almost never get to kill one that is level 80 though because their escape mechanisms are ridiculous. People complain about D/D ele escape mechanisms and they really have 2 major escape abilities with obvious medium length cooldown forcing ele’s to make a decision to use them offensively or defensively. You can never track how many escapes a thief has to save your stuns for when they are on cooldown, and some thieves can have a permanent cycle of those spamming them offensively and defensively without worrying about cooldowns like a D/D ele would….and best of all you can’t chase a thief like you can chase a D/D ele if you are built for speed/mobility.

Spartyr.6795:

vinasu.8952:

Many of you claimed to know how to kill thief, I would say that is bull crap because you haven’t even scratch the surface of a powerful thief. I myself have killed many thief, the bad to decent one that is. Against a thief that know what to do, sorry you are out of luck. Not all thief goes dagger, the good one know this. Good thief will go for pistols and can still do plenty of dps with rendering assistance. If you’re a warrior that go pure dps? Well all they have to do is wait for your measly 5 second balance stance to go off and you’ll die in probably 5 seconds or less. Want to do a tank build? Sorry to disappoint but you will not be able to take him down with low dps, even if you managed to stop his bursts, your HP at this point is down to probably 2/10 of your 30k HP so it wont be long before he finishes you off while you’re still trying to look for him.

Again, for those of you that claimed to know how to kill thief? You are probably killing the bad-decent thief

Did you just say that a Thief will take off 30k HP from a Warrior in under 5 seconds using Pistols? I think that Thief’s name was William Wallace.

I think he is haha

The issue is with culling and stealth, it allows for near constant exploitation of the culling bug using stealth.

Until this can be fixed they’ll need to adjust the stealth mechanic. It is not working as intended.

As for the OP, many thieves can strike and already be out of the immediate area by the time a person sees them and starts to react, making aoe very hit and miss.

Ekove.4586:

Gab Superstar.4059:

Why do people think they should be able to 1v1 a thief?

I play a GC thief and I can’t do kitten when I’m in a ZvZ situation unless I find some poor dude who got lost from his allies. Do you see me complain about this? No.

Every class has their strengths and weaknesses, and that is how it should be. Look at WoW. They gradually changed the classes to the point where every one of them was pretty much equal, and it was terrible. From the start all of the classes had really unique and interesting mechanics, they had signature abilities that you had to take in mind when fighting them and stuff like that. They no longer do, and the PvP has suffered a lot for it.

You guys complaining about being ganked 1v1 by a thief might not realize it, but what you seem to want for the game, a situation where every class is equal, will actually ruin the game, not help it.

There’s so much wrong in your post.

First you assume that only the thief is built around 1v1, that is not the case.

Second, if that was the case, then there’s something wrong in the game design where only one class can be built around 1v1 significantly more efficiently than other classes.

Third, Balance does not make the game dull, and I can’t change from WoW cause I didn’t play it. but listen, this seems to be beyond the understanding of most people, but extremes (e.g. glass canon builds, perma invis build, bunker build etc…) are an excuse for variation. When you bring numbers closers where people can’t build for extremes, then you have to make up that by making unique mechanics. Extremes give the illusion of variety.

Fourth, and finally, people want all classes to be balanced effectively for both large battles and skirmishes so everyone can have options to build their class as they desire. No, I do not agree with you saying thieves are useless in zerg vs zerg, shortbow deals awesome AoE damage and you also have dagger storm for nasty situations. But that is not the point, whether thieves are useless in large battles is irrelevant to it’s balance in small scale battles. All classes should be equally effective in both depending on their build. Saying the strength of this class is 1v1 and the strength of that class is ZvZ is another excuse for the lack of variety. Being good for 1v1 or ZvZ should depend on your build not your class choice; all classes should have builds that make them able to do either or (or balanced build for both). And again, I disagree that thieves are no good for that, they might not be the best at it, but they are not the worst either. Cluster is one of the highest DPS spells for the size of it’s AoE…and it has no cooldown. It does have a crappy animation though depending on the angle. Dagger Storm is still one of the best AoE spells on the game despite it’s nerfed damage…the projectile reflection still makes up for that big time.

And to all the people who are giving guidelines for not losing against a thief, this thread was about “killing” a thief. I rarely lose to a thief on my mesmer, ele or necro…I almost never get to kill one that is level 80 though because their escape mechanisms are ridiculous. People complain about D/D ele escape mechanisms and they really have 2 major escape abilities with obvious medium length cooldown forcing ele’s to make a decision to use them offensively or defensively. You can never track how many escapes a thief has to save your stuns for when they are on cooldown, and some thieves can have a permanent cycle of those spamming them offensively and defensively without worrying about cooldowns like a D/D ele would….and best of all you can’t chase a thief like you can chase a D/D ele if you are built for speed/mobility.

It’s not wrong. What class you choose SHOULD effect what your role is on the battlefield, or the game will be VERY dull. Let me help you. This is the thief description when you are creating a new character:

“Thieves are adept at the art of stealth. They utilize surprise and shadow to get close to their enemies, and they’re deadly in one-on-one combat. They have an affinity for setting traps and going where they were never meant to go.

I think the game states very clear what thieves are about, does it not? If you were attracted to one-on-one combat and roaming around picking off people behind enemy lines then you should have created a thief, not something else.

And regarding the cluster bomb / D-storm argument. First of all, cluster bomb travels slower than a snail. Anyone getting hit by it deserves it. And D-storm requires you to go up close and personal in a zerg does it not? Whenever I see a GC thief do that I just press 5 -> F1 -> 1 -> 2 and that D-storm is reduced from an 8 second one to a 2 second one and the thief is promptly asked to waypoint back after being stomped by an entire zerg.

Rayya.2591:

jportell.2197:

Stop blaming skilled players.

not sure why but i am skilled too !!! only on my thief
i can troll to death an full party of 5 players with my thief , and i will kill them all , by turn at the first mistake.
but i am not skilled on my warrior and guardian cause i got 0 chances to fight vs an 5 players group , ah in fact i got 30% chance to surive vs 2 players with 1 of those classes and 95% with my thief vs 5 players
Must be skill related

Maybe you haven’t tried Elementalist?

Gab Superstar.4059:

It’s not wrong. What class you choose SHOULD effect what your role is on the battlefield, or the game will be VERY dull. Let me help you. This is the thief description when you are creating a new character:

“Thieves are adept at the art of stealth. They utilize surprise and shadow to get close to their enemies, and they’re deadly in one-on-one combat. They have an affinity for setting traps and going where they were never meant to go.

I think the game states very clear what thieves are about, does it not? If you were attracted to one-on-one combat and roaming around picking off people behind enemy lines then you should have created a thief, not something else.

And regarding the cluster bomb / D-storm argument. First of all, cluster bomb travels slower than a snail. Anyone getting hit by it deserves it. And D-storm requires you to go up close and personal in a zerg does it not? Whenever I see a GC thief do that I just press 5 -> F1 -> 1 -> 2 and that D-storm is reduced from an 8 second one to a 2 second one and the thief is promptly asked to waypoint back after being stomped by an entire zerg.

Do you understand what the word deadly means? Deadly =/= dominant. It means you kill fast in 1v1’s…not be immortal and either win or have a tie but never lose.

Besides, if you are going by class description..you know they are just marketing nonsense and thus have to be there and are rarely accurate. Classes are loosely balanced around their description.

Spartyr.6795:

Rayya.2591:

jportell.2197:

Stop blaming skilled players.

not sure why but i am skilled too !!! only on my thief
i can troll to death an full party of 5 players with my thief , and i will kill them all , by turn at the first mistake.
but i am not skilled on my warrior and guardian cause i got 0 chances to fight vs an 5 players group , ah in fact i got 30% chance to surive vs 2 players with 1 of those classes and 95% with my thief vs 5 players
Must be skill related

Maybe you haven’t tried Elementalist?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wfq5nsj4lfs

I play elementalist also, but vs a good thief, theres barely a thing you can do.

As for the vid, these people just panic and jam buttons, I didnt see one person use any effective cc. Also the thieves I see in this vid… well.. I can see them.

The exploiters attack before rendering, appear only for half a second or less and stealth/dodge away. There is no way to hit them aside from a very well timed occassional aoe. This video doesnt show fights against any thieves that have a clue.

edit: Also I should mention thieves can catch me just fine playing d/d elementalist, and I have no problem with that. The culling/stealth exploit has to stop however.

Spartyr.6795:

Rayya.2591:

jportell.2197:

Stop blaming skilled players.

not sure why but i am skilled too !!! only on my thief
i can troll to death an full party of 5 players with my thief , and i will kill them all , by turn at the first mistake.
but i am not skilled on my warrior and guardian cause i got 0 chances to fight vs an 5 players group , ah in fact i got 30% chance to surive vs 2 players with 1 of those classes and 95% with my thief vs 5 players
Must be skill related

Maybe you haven’t tried Elementalist?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wfq5nsj4lfs

bunker ele, can engage and disengage fast. check 4.05 – 4.09 – he drop the thief to 35% hp then another thief do the finish blow
2 vs 1 situations.
nothing special , can be followed , unlike thief who stealth and run in other direction. he hit for 1000 damage when thief hit 11.000

You claimed in your earlier post that your “skill” went up when playing thief because you could 1 v 5 which you couldn’t do on your Warrior or Guardian. I just showed you an Ele that could 1 v 5, and survive so does that make them overpowered too?

Ekove.4586:

Gab Superstar.4059:

It’s not wrong. What class you choose SHOULD effect what your role is on the battlefield, or the game will be VERY dull. Let me help you. This is the thief description when you are creating a new character:

“Thieves are adept at the art of stealth. They utilize surprise and shadow to get close to their enemies, and they’re deadly in one-on-one combat. They have an affinity for setting traps and going where they were never meant to go.

I think the game states very clear what thieves are about, does it not? If you were attracted to one-on-one combat and roaming around picking off people behind enemy lines then you should have created a thief, not something else.

And regarding the cluster bomb / D-storm argument. First of all, cluster bomb travels slower than a snail. Anyone getting hit by it deserves it. And D-storm requires you to go up close and personal in a zerg does it not? Whenever I see a GC thief do that I just press 5 -> F1 -> 1 -> 2 and that D-storm is reduced from an 8 second one to a 2 second one and the thief is promptly asked to waypoint back after being stomped by an entire zerg.

Do you understand what the word deadly means? Deadly =/= dominant. It means you kill fast in 1v1’s…not be immortal and either win or have a tie but never lose.

Besides, if you are going by class description..you know they are just marketing nonsense and thus have to be there and are rarely accurate. Classes are loosely balanced around their description.

“They are just marketing nonsense”. Right. So guardians are not strong in terms of defense and support? Warriors are not strong martial fighters? Elementalists don’t use a wide variety of elemental skills to kill their enemies?

You didn’t read your class description when creating it, thinking you can 1v1 anything on whatever class you play, and then got owned by a thief and now you come to forums to complain while completely ignoring anyone who would tell you otherwise. I know your story.

The facts are there clear as day, stop being so stubborn and play your profession to the best of its capability instead of forcing it into a role it was not designed for and you will enjoy the game much more.

If this is a 1 v 1 scenario, unless the thief player sucks, you’ll never kill it. Either one of you will need to run, in other words, it’s a stalemate. Don’t expect players to stay on one spot and wait for your last skill to drop them to the ground. If both aren’t reckless and not inexperienced, there will always one that will escape. With the invi spam, you could only hit them 2 -3 times max while visible. Blindly auto attacking only works on inexperienced thief users. This is similar to those 1 v 1 cases in PvP if you run into a thief while travelling to another capture point.

Unless ANet increases the cooldown for invi skills so they can’t use it over and over in a such a short time (by time, i meant time you need to bring drop the thief to the ground), there’s no way to kill a decent thief in 1 v 1. As a guardian user, debuffs aren’t really much problem to me. I’ll just remove all my debuffs and choose to either escape or chase the thief off.

If you’re referring to X vs 1 thief, (where x is any positive number greater than 1 :P ) then just spam immobilize, cripple or knockdown. This is easy in PvP maps where it’s pretty cramped and hard to escape. If you see them going for a group invi and you know you’re pretty tanky and got good damage, just run to the invi location and auto attack using a staff or a decent aoe skill.

When you do land a hit and see the hp drop is pretty good, you can try to land 2-4 more hits while keeping a close watch on your hp and debuffs. Enough damage figure out if the thief is using a glass cannon, non-glass cannon or just plain below average build.

Spartyr.6795:

You claimed in your earlier post that your “skill” went up when playing thief because you could 1 v 5 which you couldn’t do on your Warrior or Guardian. I just showed you an Ele that could 1 v 5, and survive so does that make them overpowered too?

he was in 2 vs 5, since he had an big bad thief that you missed . Maybe because he was stealthed?
He runned betwen 5 enemy’s with invulnerability and teleport , without making any damage. While he was on back chased by 2 enemy’s , thief from his party was holding 4 enemy’s. Check what i had writed : i can go vs an party, troll them to death and kill them by turn. He did that ? He wasn’t even alone

I play thief and I usually know how to counter one when I’m rolling another class, I really suggest to those having trouble dealing with thief start one and understand it better, you will see how to beat stealth, atleast that’s what I did when I couldn’t beat d/d eles, now I know which skills are important for them, you can find out how stealth actually works, btw never AoE when u have a thief around that’s just stupid, try to immobilize or knockdown, even if he goes on stealth you know he/she stills there, another good way to find out if you are hitting it is to pay close attention to any chain skill you have, usually #1 skill works this way, if you’re actually triggering every sub-skill (I don’t know how to call it) well you’re hitting something then :P

oh and for “perma stealth” thieves just don’t let them touch, save your evades when you’re actually seeing them, you will have a lot fun watching now they are trying to hit you with CnD XD

Art.9820:

I play thief and I usually know how to counter one when I’m rolling another class, I really suggest to those having trouble dealing with thief start one and understand it better, you will see how to beat stealth, atleast that’s what I did when I couldn’t beat d/d eles, now I know which skills are important for them, you can find out how stealth actually works, btw never AoE when u have a thief around that’s just stupid, try to immobilize or knockdown, even if he goes on stealth you know he/she stills there, another good way to find out if you are hitting it is to pay close attention to any chain skill you have, usually #1 skill works this way, if you’re actually triggering every sub-skill (I don’t know how to call it) well you’re hitting something then :P

oh and for “perma stealth” thieves just don’t let them touch, save your evades when you’re actually seeing them, you will have a lot fun watching now they are trying to hit you with CnD XD

and what if they C&d on mobs arround you and safe backstabs for you ?
And how you counter an thief who stealth and leave the combat? , cause this happen on 50% of my fights vs thieves they fail initial combo, they start to lose, they walk away then come back 40 sec latter

Spartyr.6795:

You claimed in your earlier post that your “skill” went up when playing thief because you could 1 v 5 which you couldn’t do on your Warrior or Guardian. I just showed you an Ele that could 1 v 5, and survive so does that make them overpowered too?

Lol, funny how you’re ignoring all the responses to your video.

And let me state some obvious problems with that video. The video is EDITED. He isn’t going to show video of him dying in 2v1 or 1v1 situations. he is only showing him vs X idiots. Did you notice that every person would stand in his big giant red churning earth (our deadliest attack)? Did you also notice how NOBODY used not even 1 single CC!?

That video proves nothing at all. I can put a couple of people who barely can work a fuel pump, on level 5 characters and destroy them with my d/d ele. Does that really prove anything?

The fact is, I run a 20k health bunker ele and still get bursted down by the occassional thief. Does that mean I cannot kill a thief? Not at all. I killed two last night with a buddy of mine at the same time.

But when majority of players can roll X class and dominate the field with little to no effort than something is wrong.

And before you say, “your glass cannon or l2p vs thiefs”. I am a BUNKER built d/d elementalist with 20k health. The ONLY thing I do on GW2 is WvW, majority of the time I am rolling solo taking camps. I have even taken towers by myself! And my d/d Elementalist is the ONLY class I have and play. So its safe to assume I know how to play my class well, and how to counter other classes.

I honestly don’t care that thiefs can burst so hard but their ability to burst and miss you than go perma stealth, come back and retry is an issue. Even if you knock them down, they teleport a few feet away to get back on their feet, keep their distance, and stealth to regain CD’s.

What needs to be done is if the thief has a condition on them than show a visual representation of it. So if they have bleed stacks= blood gushing out, etc etc. This visual should be seen while they are stealthed. This will give thiefs their precious ability to drop players in less than a second but give others a higher chance to kill that stealthed thief.

DivineBeing.2086:

Spartyr.6795:

You claimed in your earlier post that your “skill” went up when playing thief because you could 1 v 5 which you couldn’t do on your Warrior or Guardian. I just showed you an Ele that could 1 v 5, and survive so does that make them overpowered too?

Lol, funny how you’re ignoring all the responses to your video.

And let me state some obvious problems with that video. The video is EDITED. He isn’t going to show video of him dying in 2v1 or 1v1 situations. he is only showing him vs X idiots. Did you notice that every person would stand in his big giant red churning earth (our deadliest attack)? Did you also notice how NOBODY used not even 1 single CC!?

That video proves nothing at all. I can put a couple of people who barely can work a fuel pump, on level 5 characters and destroy them with my d/d ele. Does that really prove anything?

The fact is, I run a 20k health bunker ele and still get bursted down by the occassional thief. Does that mean I cannot kill a thief? Not at all. I killed two last night with a buddy of mine at the same time.

But when majority of players can roll X class and dominate the field with little to no effort than something is wrong.

And before you say, “your glass cannon or l2p vs thiefs”. I am a BUNKER built d/d elementalist with 20k health. The ONLY thing I do on GW2 is WvW, majority of the time I am rolling solo taking camps. I have even taken towers by myself! And my d/d Elementalist is the ONLY class I have and play. So its safe to assume I know how to play my class well, and how to counter other classes.

I honestly don’t care that thiefs can burst so hard but their ability to burst and miss you than go perma stealth, come back and retry is an issue. Even if you knock them down, they teleport a few feet away to get back on their feet, keep their distance, and stealth to regain CD’s.

What needs to be done is if the thief has a condition on them than show a visual representation of it. So if they have bleed stacks= blood gushing out, etc etc. This visual should be seen while they are stealthed. This will give thiefs their precious ability to drop players in less than a second but give others a higher chance to kill that stealthed thief.

with 10 points on shadow arts they will remove an condition when they enter stealth and ever 3 seconds another 1
maybe to show numbers on screen when you attack them even if they are stealthed would be an better solution

Mighty Ice Arrow.9268:

Musty.3148:

irishhaf.1692:

Ive asked this in every one of these threads Ive seen… my main is a Ranger… WHAT can I do to extend a fight let alone win a fight 1 on 1 with a thief?

For every single move I have to gain distance thieves have a move to close the gap almost instantly… on and if its an unload spamming monkey I just die…
So give me a clue here.

Edit: as it stands I do not see a single downside to a thief in WvW, if there is please let me know for curiosity sake.

Well, in all honesty, I have (see below) toons. Unfortunately Rangers are walking pinatas of crests for each of them.

You guys need some love.

Mate you nailed !!! I keep playing Ranger because my ojective in WWW ins’t 1v1 and it’s my main since the start of GW1.
Arena listen to this guy!!!
We need your love, please fix us a bit:)

If you’re fighting vs a GS thief and you can’t win, L2P.

If you’re fighting a p/d condition thief then just run away with swoop and laugh.

What’s so kittening hard?

Sifu.6527:

Mighty Ice Arrow.9268:

Musty.3148:

irishhaf.1692:

Ive asked this in every one of these threads Ive seen… my main is a Ranger… WHAT can I do to extend a fight let alone win a fight 1 on 1 with a thief?

For every single move I have to gain distance thieves have a move to close the gap almost instantly… on and if its an unload spamming monkey I just die…
So give me a clue here.

Edit: as it stands I do not see a single downside to a thief in WvW, if there is please let me know for curiosity sake.

Well, in all honesty, I have (see below) toons. Unfortunately Rangers are walking pinatas of crests for each of them.

You guys need some love.

Mate you nailed !!! I keep playing Ranger because my ojective in WWW ins’t 1v1 and it’s my main since the start of GW1.
Arena listen to this guy!!!
We need your love, please fix us a bit:)

If you’re fighting vs a GS thief and you can’t win, L2P.

If you’re fighting a p/d condition thief then just run away with swoop and laugh.

What’s so kittening hard?

The answer is too many scrub rangers packing LB as main weapon and SB as secondary weapon. They think barrage and rapid fire are the answer to their problem even when the the thief is dagger storming….

Rayya.2591:

Art.9820:

I play thief and I usually know how to counter one when I’m rolling another class, I really suggest to those having trouble dealing with thief start one and understand it better, you will see how to beat stealth, atleast that’s what I did when I couldn’t beat d/d eles, now I know which skills are important for them, you can find out how stealth actually works, btw never AoE when u have a thief around that’s just stupid, try to immobilize or knockdown, even if he goes on stealth you know he/she stills there, another good way to find out if you are hitting it is to pay close attention to any chain skill you have, usually #1 skill works this way, if you’re actually triggering every sub-skill (I don’t know how to call it) well you’re hitting something then :P

oh and for “perma stealth” thieves just don’t let them touch, save your evades when you’re actually seeing them, you will have a lot fun watching now they are trying to hit you with CnD XD

and what if they C&d on mobs arround you and safe backstabs for you ?
And how you counter an thief who stealth and leave the combat? , cause this happen on 50% of my fights vs thieves they fail initial combo, they start to lose, they walk away then come back 40 sec latter

Just remember no one is forcing you to fight lol, you could easily move to a safer area if a thief is trying to kill you, if you are soloing with a necro then I’m sorry that’s your fault, thief focuses on 1v1, they are pretty useful at downing and killing players, just like a d/d ele, another thing just because a thief started to attack it dosen’t mean you have to stand right there and fight him…. you can change the fight stage, if he runs away that’s a victory for you, this is how you will learn how to deal with a thief, even if he comes back your skils will be over with cooldown too, hes not the only one with a skillbar you know :P, you have no idea how useful I feel by playing ele and not thief in wvw, I do help A LOT more than just killing randoms or downing players, trust me when I say this, in the big picture of WvW thief is really small compared to other classes like mesmer or elemenalist, 1v1 are meaningless stop taking it personal and actually focus on why you are in WvW

Rayya.2591:

Art.9820:

I play thief and I usually know how to counter one when I’m rolling another class, I really suggest to those having trouble dealing with thief start one and understand it better, you will see how to beat stealth, atleast that’s what I did when I couldn’t beat d/d eles, now I know which skills are important for them, you can find out how stealth actually works, btw never AoE when u have a thief around that’s just stupid, try to immobilize or knockdown, even if he goes on stealth you know he/she stills there, another good way to find out if you are hitting it is to pay close attention to any chain skill you have, usually #1 skill works this way, if you’re actually triggering every sub-skill (I don’t know how to call it) well you’re hitting something then :P

oh and for “perma stealth” thieves just don’t let them touch, save your evades when you’re actually seeing them, you will have a lot fun watching now they are trying to hit you with CnD XD

and what if they C&d on mobs arround you and safe backstabs for you ?
And how you counter an thief who stealth and leave the combat? , cause this happen on 50% of my fights vs thieves they fail initial combo, they start to lose, they walk away then come back 40 sec latter

This.

Rayya.2591:

Spartyr.6795:

You claimed in your earlier post that your “skill” went up when playing thief because you could 1 v 5 which you couldn’t do on your Warrior or Guardian. I just showed you an Ele that could 1 v 5, and survive so does that make them overpowered too?

he was in 2 vs 5, since he had an big bad thief that you missed . Maybe because he was stealthed?
He runned betwen 5 enemy’s with invulnerability and teleport , without making any damage. While he was on back chased by 2 enemy’s , thief from his party was holding 4 enemy’s. Check what i had writed : i can go vs an party, troll them to death and kill them by turn. He did that ? He wasn’t even alone

I’ll be looking forward to that video.

Just setup a basic P/D heavy heal/condition damage build on my thief.

Using yellow/green gear.

Already pulling in kills and getting away virtually unscathed.

I think the main problem here is culling. They either need to redesign the way this interacts with stealth. or stealth needs to be redesigned.

Roll an engineer. Spec to TANKCAT build. Smack them in the face with a prybar and watch the noob thieves kill themselves by spamming attacks on you. The good ones will invis and try again later so you just block them until they burn through their cooldowns. Glass cannon thieves are the easiest class to beat.

Or roll a necro with greater marks and spam staff AOE rings until they die or find someone else to stalk.

Tulisin.6945:

Drew.1865:

If they want to have stealth then they should have to sacrifice some burst.

How would you propose this be accomplished?

I have a good counter to it. And I actually think this is viable. If a thief goes stealth for too long fighting an NPC and actually just a few seconds the NPC leaves combat mode and starts to regain health… Same should happen with players… Thereby countering SOME of the burst and so on.

Stealth is not the base mechanic of the thief profession, Steal and Initiative are. Of the weapon sets accessible to the thief, nearly half don’t have organic access to stealth (the vast majority if you count non-viable weapon sets). Stealth is a play style choice and an excellent specialization option for thieves, but it is not a base profession mechanic.

Yes, all professions can burst people down in a couple seconds with the right gear/spec, the main difference is that thieves can be more mobile when doing so. If anything is overpowered in WvW, it is mobility, not stealth.
[/quote]

Stealth Skills
Thieves have access to skills that allow them to enter stealth mode, which renders them invisible to enemies. When in stealth, their first weapon skill slot is replaced by a powerful stealth skill. For instance, when thieves equipped with daggers enter stealth, they receive a skill called Backstab, which does more damage when thieves strike from behind.

That was taken straight from The profession description ON THIS WEBSITE… And it is not a base mechanic for the class? Hmmmm…..

Gaiawolf.8261:

Tulisin.6945:

Drew.1865:

If they want to have stealth then they should have to sacrifice some burst.

How would you propose this be accomplished?

Look here for starters:

My personal vote is not to kill thief burst/stealth builds, but to just make it harder to pull off so its not just a matter of spamming a few buttons for a 2-3 second kill. It should take several rapid, various attacks, multiple CCs mixed in, key positioning (at least BS requires this), and timing (NOT SPAMMING) to down someone in several (5-6) seconds. But hey, I think most burst builds are OP in this game from many professions. I’d rather see lower damage skills with lower CDs across the board.

It’s really not a hard concept, and applying it to the thief would mean lowering damage on certain skills (mostly auto attacks including stealth skills, but also probably CnD and HS too), while giving their weapons skills (especially melee weapons) better CC and defensive tools (weakness, daze, and vigor come to mind), so they don’t get blown up when their burst doesn’t instakill everyone with less than 2000 T/V.

That is a solution to a separate issue though. Increasing TTK across the board is an idea worth considering, but it doesn’t have much to do with stealth or thieves “sacrificing burst”. If the new paradigm for a burst kill becomes 5 seconds for all professions instead of 3 seconds for all professions and the thief can still do 5 second kills, then the thief hasn’t sacrificed anything.

jportell.2197:

Tulisin.6945:

Drew.1865:

If they want to have stealth then they should have to sacrifice some burst.

How would you propose this be accomplished?

I have a good counter to it. And I actually think this is viable. If a thief goes stealth for too long fighting an NPC and actually just a few seconds the NPC leaves combat mode and starts to regain health… Same should happen with players… Thereby countering SOME of the burst and so on.

Stealth usually only lasts 3 seconds, either the timer for the person to leave combat is over 3 seconds, in which case it won’t affect the thief, or the timer for the person to leave combat is under 3 seconds and it is totally broken. And it’d still only work in 1v1 scenarios with no mobs around, since any other enemies engaged would keep someone in combat mode. Furthermore, it’d break combat off for the thief too, which would be utterly broken for hiding/escaping.

jportell.2197:

Stealth Skills
Thieves have access to skills that allow them to enter stealth mode, which renders them invisible to enemies. When in stealth, their first weapon skill slot is replaced by a powerful stealth skill. For instance, when thieves equipped with daggers enter stealth, they receive a skill called Backstab, which does more damage when thieves strike from behind.

That was taken straight from The profession description ON THIS WEBSITE… And it is not a base mechanic for the class? Hmmmm…..

No more than traps or signets, no. Stealth skills are a skill type, but they are not a base mechanic. They’re a type of skill you can specialize in, not an omnipresent feature of the profession that is ingrained regardless of skill choice. It’d be similar to calling banners a “base mechanic” of all warriors.

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

Spam ground targetted AoE on self (Usually thieves like to sit right next to you when they are stealthed)

no good thief just sits there in AoE, they reposition themselves to attack again or gain distance to escape. Thanks to the culling bug and the limit to the camera distance they can get a few attacks off before you can even target them and disappear again.

honestly against a good thief you really have a small chance of winning, against a stupid thief you can burst them down without too much trouble. Luckily because of the how OP thieves are you will see a lot of dumb players playing them right now.

its the stupid amount of stealth abilities thieves have in combination with the culling bug that gives them a massive advantage in any fight. A good thief can pop in and out of stealth before you even have a chance to hit them. They need to increase the revealed debuff to counter the culling issue. 3 seconds is not even close to being long enough, also AoE should knock them out of stealth if you are lucky enough to guess where they are. (most AoE abilities are on a long cooldown so its a fair trade)

Thobek.1730:

its the stupid amount of stealth abilities thieves have in combination with the culling bug that gives them a massive advantage in any fight. A good thief can pop in and out of stealth before you even have a chance to hit them. They need to increase the revealed debuff to counter the culling issue. 3 seconds is not even close to being long enough, also AoE should knock them out of stealth if you are lucky enough to guess where they are. (most AoE abilities are on a long cooldown so its a fair trade)

1. You don’t need to target the thief to hit them with the exception of a few abilities (necro skills mostly).
2. You can target the thief while they’re being culled. Stealth does drop immediately, allowing tab targeting even before the model is visible.

If you’re relying on being able to both see and target a stealthed enemy to fight them, you’re going to be at a huge disadvantage to people that combat them without those requirements.

There are a number of problems with AE unliterally knocking thieves out of stealth, not the least of which are what you define as AE.

Tulisin.6945:

…
2. You can target the thief while they’re being culled. Stealth does drop immediately, allowing tab targeting even before the model is visible.
…

Being able to target what can’t be seen is considered a bug. The main purpose of stealth is to keep you safe from being targetted/spotted and from being attacked directly by a non-aoe attack.

With regards to the stealth part of this topic, Yes, I think it needs to be reworked. Same as a couple of you suggested.

bahamut.3204:

Tulisin.6945:

…
2. You can target the thief while they’re being culled. Stealth does drop immediately, allowing tab targeting even before the model is visible.
…

Being able to target what can’t be seen is considered a bug. The main purpose of stealth is to keep you safe from being targetted/spotted and from being attacked directly by a non-aoe attack.

Not when it comes to culling it isn’t. You should be (and are) able to target people who are under the effects of culling since a culled player is not under the effect of any mechanic which should prevent it. Culling is not stealth and does not grant the benefits of stealth beyond no model being present.

And the only non-AE attacks that stealth prevents are some unique target-required skills like necromancers have. Most non-AE attacks work just fine against stealthed targets, stealth isn’t intended to stop attacks or reduce damage, just get rid of the ability to autotarget things with the game’s locking system. The distinction is subtle, but important, and far too many players still don’t understand the difference.

Tulisin.6945:

get rid of the ability to autotarget things with the game’s locking system. The distinction is subtle, but important, and far too many players still don’t understand the difference.

they should make just make thiefs visible but untargetable then.