Guild Wars 2

First off, the ESo vs GW2 argument is pure stupidity, some of you will prefer ESO and some of you will prefer GW2, your not going to convince each other that one is superior to the other so why argue ?

EotM has hurt WvW participation, LS has hurt participation, ESO WILL hurt participation not because its better but if your foolish enough to believe people won’t leave to try it out for at least the free month then your blind. And finally the Dev’s more so then any other reason have hurt WvW participation by continually ignoring bugs, hacks, imbalances, and in general ignoring their community and treating us like a bunch of morons that have never played an MMO before.

Its hard to say if numbers will pick up for season 2 because as someone else stated ESO head start is March 30, Season 2 begins March 28, its going to be hard to see the numbers when many people leave to try ESO.

Fuzzion.2504:

Except for the implosion of SoR , BG still can still field 50 to 70 man blobs on atleast 3 maps at any given time.

So the guy on JQ tells us what BG can do. Good one!
Your propaganda is just bad.

Yes, it seems like WvW population/participation is down.

Servers like BG, JQ, and now TC have no reason to complain. Many guilds have gone to those servers either in the past or recently. Any server below rank 8 or so is basically dead in WvW comparatively.

Some observations:

1. EOTM has stolen some players…not as much as some people think, but its definitely happened.

2. Many hardcore WvW players have over 2k hours in WvW…and they just don’t play as much as they used to. Some play less, some take breaks and will come back, and some have gone from the game forever.

3. PPT/coverage hurt WvW. Guilds leave for more populated servers, leaving smaller servers and other guilds with hard choices.

4. #3 is a multiple server problem, if a bunch of guilds leave from rank 6 server, and rank 7 guilds don’t have anyone to fight anymore, then they may wish to make a change also.

Edit:

A note about TESO: Please remember it will be $15/month+cash shop. Couple that with some wonky RvR, and I really don’t think it will be stealing that many players away.

CU: Isn’t out until 2015 at least….thats assuming its not a mess.

etrigan.4213:

A note about TESO: Please remember it will be $15/month+cash shop. Couple that with some wonky RvR, and I really don’t think it will be stealing that many players away.

There is no cash shop. And wonky RvR? The RvR is far better designed than WvW as is to be expected from having devs experienced in the mode, unlike anet. Plus it is far better optimised.

The issues with the game are more general: the graphics are not as attractive as GW2, but thats a rather shallow criticism. The combat isn’t as fluid but they are listening to feedback and making changes eg. making combat more weighty, starting PvE at the main city instead of the islands. AOE is less damaging but this is a good thing. Lastly there is the cost which may be something of a noose around its neck I admit.

etrigan.4213:

CU: Isn’t out until 2015 at least….thats assuming its not a mess.

Its a far more focused game so there’s less chance of that than there was say on Warhammer (for which Marc Jacobs seems to be unjustly blamed).

morrolan.9608:

There is no cash shop. And wonky RvR? The RvR is far better designed than WvW as is to be expected from having devs experienced in the mode, unlike anet. Plus it is far better optimised.

The issues with the game are more general: the graphics are not as attractive as GW2, but thats a rather shallow criticism. The combat isn’t as fluid but they are listening to feedback and making changes eg. making combat more weighty, starting PvE at the main city instead of the islands. AOE is less damaging but this is a good thing. Lastly there is the cost which may be something of a noose around its neck I admit.

etrigan.4213:

CU: Isn’t out until 2015 at least….thats assuming its not a mess.

Its a far more focused game so there’s less chance of that than there was say on Warhammer (for which Marc Jacobs seems to be unjustly blamed).

We are completely straying off topic, so I likely won’t reply again to this particular thread.

BUT….

ESO will definitely have a cash shop items. That doesn’t mean they will be necessary to be competitive in game, but still a cash shop. This has been reported numerous times. You seem like you enjoy ESO RvR a bit. I have not played it, I have six friends who have and they told me they liked it less than WvW. They told me its wonky(and gave me a bunch of reasons, we are off topic though so I was just making some quick points), but understood its still beta.

CU won’t be out until December 2015(ie basically 2016)…I can’t even begin to think about what I will be playing in 2016…thats two years away lol.

etrigan.4213:

ESO will definitely have a cash shop items. That doesn’t mean they will be necessary to be competitive in game, but still a cash shop.

Players can pay for some account services like say transferring from 1 RvR campaign to another, thats all. Its not what is typically called a cash shop.

The $15 monthly for ESO means devs are constantly under pressure to provide/enhance content and bug fixes.

After the screw up with the season 1 rewards, or lack there of… I haven’t logged back on. Obviously, this game has failed to appeal to me so I move on. Before, you get to excited my realm didn’t win, I am more upset the winning realms got jack for their efforts.

Are they actually going to give a decent reward for season 2 ?

NargofWoV.4267:

Are they actually going to give a decent reward for season 2 ?

For participating, maybe. For winning, unlikely — winning is directly correlated to coverage and so giving good rewards would really anger servers with less coverage.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Poxheart.2845:

I haven’t logged into GW2 since I started playing ESO. Aside from having three opposing sides there really is no comparison between the two games. ESO’s PvP is everything that GW2’s isn’t.

Too bad the actual combat in that game isn’t that good. It’s not worth a subscription.

That may be your opinion, but it’s not mine.

My initial impression of the game was not favorable, but now that I’ve spent more than just a weekend playing the game I feel differently. The actual PvP is really good.

The negligence show by anet to balance issues in wvw will cause many people to try ESO. Once they pay the sub, they will stay a while. Even if players return, it’s unlikely they will buy gems.

If there are more like myself who were never serious with wvwvw we have moved to the new map to satisfy our small pvp needs. More action in a shorter period of time and I feel that it is possible for me to effect the outcome. Three hours is something I can be interested in not seven days.

When I get the mass wisper I do try and come help you guys for an hour or so. I love a super sexy karma train. Water field water field please. Sometimes he gets what he asked for but usually not.

Props to you dedicated wvwvw’s who have not jumped ship to a higher pop server. You guys amaze me.

I can’t see Season 2 halting the decline. I think it’s gone too far now.

I’ve no doubt that the projected start date was set to offset the impact of ESO but people are already leaving WvW for many other reasons and for dedicated WvW players, that means quitting the game.

Individuals are quitting, guilds are breaking up, server WvW populations are falling and we still have a month to the release date.

The Golden Goose is dead. It died of starvation.

Lord Kuru.3685:

The $15 monthly for ESO means devs are constantly under pressure to provide/enhance content and bug fixes.

Not really true. Company based content development can NEVER keep up with customer consumption, people get bored and leave. That $15 that promised new content becomes a weight on the quitting side of the subscription scale. Once people leave it’s a game of balancing profit, new content, and not pushing your current player base towards quitting. That means no huge changes outside the current scope of play. Even if the big changes would make the awesome for those who quit you now have the $15 hurdle once again keeping people from playing it because who wants to spend $15 just to see if the game is now better?

Subscriptions are the exact opposite of what you believe they are. They don’t pressure devs into making big changes to keep the game fresh, they pressure the devs into stagnating the game so they don’t lose their customer base, because once lost it’s hard to get them back due to the subscription fee.

Don’t get me wrong, I certainly think ArenaNet is developing this game at an absolutely glacial pace, even going backwards on several fronts. However subscriptions are not a beacon of hope, they are merely a flame meant to lure people into a monetary trap.

Distaste.4801:

Lord Kuru.3685:

The $15 monthly for ESO means devs are constantly under pressure to provide/enhance content and bug fixes.

Not really true. Company based content development can NEVER keep up with customer consumption, people get bored and leave. That $15 that promised new content becomes a weight on the quitting side of the subscription scale. Once people leave it’s a game of balancing profit, new content, and not pushing your current player base towards quitting. That means no huge changes outside the current scope of play. Even if the big changes would make the awesome for those who quit you now have the $15 hurdle once again keeping people from playing it because who wants to spend $15 just to see if the game is now better?

Subscriptions are the exact opposite of what you believe they are. They don’t pressure devs into making big changes to keep the game fresh, they pressure the devs into stagnating the game so they don’t lose their customer base, because once lost it’s hard to get them back due to the subscription fee.

Don’t get me wrong, I certainly think ArenaNet is developing this game at an absolutely glacial pace, even going backwards on several fronts. However subscriptions are not a beacon of hope, they are merely a flame meant to lure people into a monetary trap.

The way I see it, everyone paying $15 a month makes the game more “democratic.” If you’re, say, primarily a WvW player, or dungeon/fractal runner, would you pay $15 a month for the dilapidated, stale, bug-ridden, hack-ridden, griefer-ridden versions that Anet provides? No way. For $15 a month, you better give me something or I quit. For $15 a month, the company has to at least provide basic maintenance for each major aspect of the game.

However, with the gemstore as primary source of income, Anet just needs to focus on the whales and what they want (apparently, LS zergers). Everyone else only need to be satisfied at a bare minimum level — just enough that the whales will have some play companions. And bare minimum is exactly what many aspects of the game are getting under Anet’s model.

My guess is the removal of mathup forums. I’m pretty sure Anet already regrets doing so.

Contiguous.1345:

I can’t see Season 2 halting the decline. I think it’s gone too far now.

Yep especially when you look at the latest CDI and realise what it means about their priorities.

morrolan.9608:

Contiguous.1345:

I can’t see Season 2 halting the decline. I think it’s gone too far now.

Yep especially when you look at the latest CDI and realise what it means about their priorities.

Yes, I just read that. It’s just a list of changes they think would be ‘nice’ and an invitation to pick the ones we prefer. None of them are even vaguely related to what we’ve been pleading for since the start of last year.

Well, I had fun for a while. So long, and thanks for all the fish.

Dying game is dying (in terms of WvW)….I always laugh at the people that get all nerdraged about when someone says that…The fact is there is a decline in players, there is a decline in interest and there is a decline in faith that anything largely significant will be changed.

Playing for PPT only sustains interest for so long, once players realized that its all about coverage, server stacking, population, etc then all the PPT talk/interest goes out the window. Playing for fights is ok, but its largely dependent on too many variables week-in-week-out.

Will the game(mode) die completely? Obviously not, but it is on its way out. (And that is coming from someone who WvWs 7 days a week….) There will always be boons that boost gameplay (leagues, EoTM, major map releases etc)….But unless something changes at the base level of WvW it will not be sustainable beyond casual players or new players who have to run through the cycle of realizing what it really is all about.

Plain and simple, WvW really has no MEANING beyond chasing an asinine metric, that is better served to give population related data, than “competitive performance” data. Once you realize this, it is simply all downhill from there.

ANET: You need to find a way of making competitive play (be it on a scoreboard or on the battlefield) worth something, and not so reliant on “who has more people”.

Everything Amadaeus said. Coverage Wars must be fixed.

nothing says “meh, i dont feel like logging in to play cause they blew up the place where i idle” like blowing up the place people afk…

I just dont see people logging in to play people who ***ALWAYS*** played every day, and i think that’s ^^ why. eotm and la destruction have killed it for most i think. just time to move on to better things for most people.

Speaking to BP directly, I think it is the frequency of crap matches we have seen the last 6 months. We seem to get stuck in tiers with significantly stronger servers and routinely get “bad rolls” which promotes us into tiers we cannot effectively compete with.

Then there is all the complaining about our handful of popular commanders. As soon as we have a commander hat up, map chat goes in the toilet talking crap about them. I know we are a small guild server, but the open negativity from a vocal minority quickly drives off the non-hardcore.

I have considered leaving over the last few weeks and I am on the fence to stay or go.

Lord Kuru.3685:

The way I see it, everyone paying $15 a month makes the game more “democratic.” If you’re, say, primarily a WvW player, or dungeon/fractal runner, would you pay $15 a month for the dilapidated, stale, bug-ridden, hack-ridden, griefer-ridden versions that Anet provides? No way. For $15 a month, you better give me something or I quit. For $15 a month, the company has to at least provide basic maintenance for each major aspect of the game.

However, with the gemstore as primary source of income, Anet just needs to focus on the whales and what they want (apparently, LS zergers). Everyone else only need to be satisfied at a bare minimum level — just enough that the whales will have some play companions. And bare minimum is exactly what many aspects of the game are getting under Anet’s model.

The problem is that each month they WON’T provide to all area’s of the game, no MMO ever has. Each patch is usually targeted at 1 or 2 areas and that comes once every 1-2 months with it get longer the lower the subscribers get. Even Blizzard the king of subscription MMO’s never did PvP, open world, dungeons, and raids in the same patch every 1-2 months. It took like 9 months to get WSG/AV in WoW. You’re going to get the same bare minimum each patch, but the majority of content will be developed towards whatever area of the game holds the most subscribers because they want to please the most people at a minimal development cost.

The $15 vote you think you have is exactly why that $15 quickly becomes a reason to quit. You’re area of the game didn’t get developed this month and it will be 1-2 months before it does so why pay $15-$30 to wait? Then it becomes why pay $15 to see if anything changed?

The biggest problem you’ll find will be PvP in ESO will tank very quickly. People get bored(I got bored just testing it) and quit and they won’t come back over the $15 hurdle to play again. The WvW in GW2 at least has resurgences of players because there is no sub, they can come back anytime with the only hurdle being patching.

Also don’t forget that ESO will have a cash shop as well, so you better believe zenimax will be catering to “whales” as well. Given that they’ve already shown they are willing to sell out lore/game mechanics via the pre-purchasing I truly dread what they will do with a cash shop. Emperor only $500!

In the end, ESO won’t really matter because Anet is already doing a great job of killing WvW all by itself anyway.

People who think ESO has a Cash shop clearly don’t know what an actual Cash Shop is.

GW2 has a Cash Shop.

ESO has Account Services (Character Transfers for example)

As for the Comparison between WvW and AvA in ESO..

There is no contest, ESO AvA is far far superior.

Not only does it run way way better….(Zero lag…and I mean that..Zero..I have never seen an MMO to date have the performance that ESO has in PvP)

It doesn’t have crappy gimmicks like GW2, There is no Down System, If you want to Res someone, You have to walk up to them, and cast a Res Spell, that takes like 10 seconds almost to cast…If someone interrupts you, You have to start over with the cast.

It also doesn’t have an AOE Cap, Countless times in beta I’ve seen 8 People absolutely Blow the Hell out of Large Groups of Players trying to Zerg something…

If you bunch up in ESO, you will die… Like you’re suppose to.

The Map is also vastly superior to GW2 as well…I mean its not even close… Not only its it bigger then all the Borderlands,EB,EOTM combined…It actually pushes you not to zerg objectives…

You get more for killing someone Solo, Then you do for taking an Undefended Keep..

There is no contest..It is the better PvP Game.

Distaste.4801:

Also don’t forget that ESO will have a cash shop as well,

There seems to be a concerted campaign to discredit ESO on this basis. It won’t have a cash shop it will offer account services for sale like changing RvR campaigns, no different to other mmos offering services like changing server.

Terravos.4059:

People who think ESO has a Cash shop clearly don’t know what an actual Cash Shop is.

GW2 has a Cash Shop.

ESO has Account Services (Character Transfers for example)

As for the Comparison between WvW and AvA in ESO..

There is no contest, ESO AvA is far far superior.

Not only does it run way way better….(Zero lag…and I mean that..Zero..I have never seen an MMO to date have the performance that ESO has in PvP)

It doesn’t have crappy gimmicks like GW2, There is no Down System, If you want to Res someone, You have to walk up to them, and cast a Res Spell, that takes like 10 seconds almost to cast…If someone interrupts you, You have to start over with the cast.

It also doesn’t have an AOE Cap, Countless times in beta I’ve seen 8 People absolutely Blow the Hell out of Large Groups of Players trying to Zerg something…

If you bunch up in ESO, you will die… Like you’re suppose to.

The Map is also vastly superior to GW2 as well…I mean its not even close… Not only its it bigger then all the Borderlands,EB,EOTM combined…It actually pushes you not to zerg objectives…

You get more for killing someone Solo, Then you do for taking an Undefended Keep..

There is no contest..It is the better PvP Game.

Good post, it actually points out a lot of the issues in WvW today. People used to complain about DAOC’s AOE’s and how smaller roaming groups could kill a zerg blob. But yet you look at WvW in GW2 today, it’s either you run a bigger blob or you die. This is a direct result of the lack of aoe CC and having an aoe cap. GW2 WvW rewards blob zergs, the bigger the better, no questions about it.

You mentioned stacking, yup, with a proper cc and aoe combat system, stacking will get you killed together. In this game, WvW again encourages you to stack as many people into the blob as possible. I never understood how stacking and following the train encourages tactical play. To me it simply encourages zerg blobs, which as we see today, is the case in WvW.

I always had a mixed feelings about the downed system. But now that you mentioned it, I do find it lame that downed people could rally up. Personally I think dead people should be dead, unless resurrected otherwise. There are times you simply can’t kill off a blob because they just keep rallying back up. Again, the system encourages large blobs.

I’m sure ESO will have its own problems, but I do think with Anet’s lack of attention to WvW, a lot of the GW2 players will at least try ESO for a few months. This isn’t to say GW2 is bad or Anet won’t do something to counter the release of ESO. It’s simple facts that people will find a new game exciting to try, a game that offers a bit different gameplay styles in PvP. WvW participation will definitely go down even more, which may just prompt Anet to actually do something to help WvW.

Right now as long as Anet is making a lot of money off server transfers, I don’t think it gives them any incentive to balance things. And as long as Anet can keep making money selling fluff to PvE players, or pull stunts like nuking a perfectly good hub to make people buy tickets to access the same hub as before, well then Anet is encouraged to continue doing such things rather than spend resources taking care of WvW problems. To GW2 players, you should view ESO’s success (if it’s successful) a good thing. Because every company needs a kick in the balls every once in awhile to remind them that they’re in a competitive market, and that they need to please their customers or they’ll find better.

cortin.9174:

I’m sure ESO will have its own problems, but I do think with Anet’s lack of attention to WvW, a lot of the GW2 players will at least try ESO for a few months. This isn’t to say GW2 is bad or Anet won’t do something to counter the release of ESO.

They already are, spring tournament launches just before TESO early start and presumably account bound WXP will be implemented then as well even though its ready now. Funny thing is that the season will be a turn off for many WvW players and isn’t an enticement to stay.

cortin.9174:

It’s simple facts that people will find a new game exciting to try, a game that offers a bit different gameplay styles in PvP. WvW participation will definitely go down even more, which may just prompt Anet to actually do something to help WvW.

We can only hope, but some of the things that need improving like aoe, downed state and probably skill lag never will be because they are either fundamental parts of teh game and locked in due to engine limitations.

cortin.9174:

Terravos.4059:

People who think ESO has a Cash shop clearly don’t know what an actual Cash Shop is.

GW2 has a Cash Shop.

ESO has Account Services (Character Transfers for example)

As for the Comparison between WvW and AvA in ESO..

There is no contest, ESO AvA is far far superior.

Not only does it run way way better….(Zero lag…and I mean that..Zero..I have never seen an MMO to date have the performance that ESO has in PvP)

It doesn’t have crappy gimmicks like GW2, There is no Down System, If you want to Res someone, You have to walk up to them, and cast a Res Spell, that takes like 10 seconds almost to cast…If someone interrupts you, You have to start over with the cast.

It also doesn’t have an AOE Cap, Countless times in beta I’ve seen 8 People absolutely Blow the Hell out of Large Groups of Players trying to Zerg something…

If you bunch up in ESO, you will die… Like you’re suppose to.

The Map is also vastly superior to GW2 as well…I mean its not even close… Not only its it bigger then all the Borderlands,EB,EOTM combined…It actually pushes you not to zerg objectives…

You get more for killing someone Solo, Then you do for taking an Undefended Keep..

There is no contest..It is the better PvP Game.

You mentioned stacking, yup, with a proper cc and aoe combat system, stacking will get you killed together. In this game, WvW again encourages you to stack as many people into the blob as possible. I never understood how stacking and following the train encourages tactical play. To me it simply encourages zerg blobs, which as we see today, is the case in WvW.

This one has always baffled me….“stack on me!!”

I still take heat for not stacking with 10+other people. I come from Daoc and that’s the last thing you would ever do….which also seem like common sense for any game.

no down system and no aoe cap is reason enough for me to try ESO.

ESO sounds a lot like the game I had hoped GW2 would be, but after over a year of basically nothing but complete disappointment with WvW development, it really won’t take much convincing to leave for a different game

Forzani.2584:

This one has always baffled me….“stack on me!!”

I still take heat for not stacking with 10+other people. I come from Daoc and that’s the last thing you would ever do….which also seem like common sense for any game.

The reason why commanders call for stack (those that know anything about combat in this game) is to control boon timers and for blast finisher effects to spread over more players. If you’re not within range of those boons and combo effect finishers, you’re missing out in vital boons such as Protection, Regeneration and Might.

Spreading out and not moving in a stack is actually the best way to combat a hammer train. Restack when boons run out.

Some most commanders are just bad.

Reverence.6915:

Forzani.2584:

This one has always baffled me….“stack on me!!”

I still take heat for not stacking with 10+other people. I come from Daoc and that’s the last thing you would ever do….which also seem like common sense for any game.

The reason why commanders call for stack (those that know anything about combat in this game) is to control boon timers and for blast finisher effects to spread over more players. If you’re not within range of those boons and combo effect finishers, you’re missing out in vital boons such as Protection, Regeneration and Might.

Spreading out and not moving in a stack is actually the best way to combat a hammer train. Restack when boons run out.

Some most commanders are just bad.

oh I understand why it happens, it just feels very wrong to do it. Also when I watch 2 groups fight I find it amusing they both stack up…do their little blasts…then charge each other..pass through each other…then blob up again for heals. Rinse repeat. Like two Rams fighting or something….or like the movie Braveheart where the two blobs run at each other screaming and clash in the middle. The fights are completely different than daoc and just seem a little counter intuitive.

Population problems are making WvW very close to being beyond repair. From the looks of the CDI topic, it doesn’t seem like Anet is even aware of this.

Forzani.2584:

oh I understand why it happens, it just feels very wrong to do it. Also when I watch 2 groups fight I find it amusing they both stack up…do their little blasts…then charge each other..pass through each other…then blob up again for heals. Rinse repeat. Like two Rams fighting or something….or like the movie Braveheart where the two blobs run at each other screaming and clash in the middle. The fights are completely different than daoc and just seem a little counter intuitive.

using game mechanics like combo fields + finishers, a group setup to spread the buffs equally and coordinated movement + the right skills at the right time feels wrong and counter intuitive? thats an interesting point of view

[quote=3675923;Dabrixmgp.4758:]

ESO has something similar to Combo Fields, they’re called synergies…

Players can activate area’s basically do things.

You still got to be careful about clumping up though, can very easily be wiped by AOE.

Terravos.4059:

ESO has something similar to Combo Fields, they’re called synergies…

Players can activate area’s basically do things.

You still got to be careful about clumping up though, can very easily be wiped by AOE.

That’s cool — stacking being a double edged sword makes gameplay more interesting.

ESO PvP? You mean stunlock → dead?

Terkov.4138:

ESO PvP? You mean stunlock -> dead?

I guess you don’t know that everybody can break being stunned as long as they have enough endurance.

ESO has a sub. After the first month or two most people will come back.

Seems a massive drop on Vizunah as well, outmanned nearly all day. low rewards, low loots, low cash… anet really needs to do something very quickly

Actually the biggest reason for “stacking” (beyond buffs) is to mitigate AoE dmg by manipulating the AoE cap.

Even a roamer like me knows that….You ball up to mitigate dmg during a fight. (Assuming you are running enough, wouldn’t work so well with a 5man) It is a flaw in the design of this game, ANET can’t (Read: says they can’t) change it due to technical limitations on their end.

It will not change, hell it has become so entrenched in the style of play in this game half the people can’t even remember why they do it, just that “it’s how it’s done”.

Edge of the mist.

yiishing.9057:

Forzani.2584:

oh I understand why it happens, it just feels very wrong to do it. Also when I watch 2 groups fight I find it amusing they both stack up…do their little blasts…then charge each other..pass through each other…then blob up again for heals. Rinse repeat. Like two Rams fighting or something….or like the movie Braveheart where the two blobs run at each other screaming and clash in the middle. The fights are completely different than daoc and just seem a little counter intuitive.

using game mechanics like combo fields + finishers, a group setup to spread the buffs equally and coordinated movement + the right skills at the right time feels wrong and counter intuitive? thats an interesting point of view

You don’t get it because you never played a good wvw game like DAoC. It is completely counter intuitive to ball up before a good fight. At tactic like balling does not exist in any other game or battle filed it is purely a result of the aoe limit and rally mechanic.

Terravos.4059:

As for the Comparison between WvW and AvA in ESO..

There is no contest, ESO AvA is far far superior.

Not only does it run way way better….(Zero lag…and I mean that..Zero..I have never seen an MMO to date have the performance that ESO has in PvP)

It doesn’t have crappy gimmicks like GW2, There is no Down System, If you want to Res someone, You have to walk up to them, and cast a Res Spell, that takes like 10 seconds almost to cast…If someone interrupts you, You have to start over with the cast.

It also doesn’t have an AOE Cap, Countless times in beta I’ve seen 8 People absolutely Blow the Hell out of Large Groups of Players trying to Zerg something…

If you bunch up in ESO, you will die… Like you’re suppose to.

The Map is also vastly superior to GW2 as well…I mean its not even close… Not only its it bigger then all the Borderlands,EB,EOTM combined…It actually pushes you not to zerg objectives…

You get more for killing someone Solo, Then you do for taking an Undefended Keep..

There is no contest..It is the better PvP Game.

This sums up perfectly why ESO AvA will pwn GW2 WvW in every way, when it comes to mechanics and gameplay.

Add to that they are making an (apparently pretty successful) design effort to head off the eternal population balancing / stacking issues with instanced maps and forced balance within instances. This alone will have an enormous impact on making AvA not suck the way WvW does.

The big question is whether ESO can draw and sustain a strong population given that they have hobbled themselves with an asinine pricing model and the PvE is horrendously bad. If the game succeeds despite Bethesda’s every effort to strangle it in the crib, then it will be the go-to for players that want to do nothing but AvA all day.

If it fails generally, AvA won’t matter because it will be a ghost town. Which, let’s face it, has happened often enough to games that did this mode well in the past.

One thing is sure, the game will go either F2P or B2P within 90 days of launch. At that point we’ll see whether it actually can compete with GW2.

Either way, great AvA alone will not be enough to maintain a large enough paying playerbase to sustain it. The game has to succeed generally with the carebear masses to be viable, and it’s not at all clear that it has any chance of that.

King Amadaeus.8619:

Actually the biggest reason for “stacking” (beyond buffs) is to mitigate AoE dmg by manipulating the AoE cap.

It is a flaw in the design of this game, ANET can’t (Read: says they can’t) change it due to technical limitations on their end.

Wasn’t there a time when there was no AOE cap? What was happening back then that made them add it?

Terravos.4059:

I have never seen an MMO to date have the performance that ESO has in PvP

Given that the game has only been experienced in limited beta.. that’s not really saying much is it?

WvW ran pretty fantastic too during the BWE when there was only a few thousand ppl connecting to the servers.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

Terravos.4059:

I have never seen an MMO to date have the performance that ESO has in PvP

Given that the game has only been experienced in limited beta.. that’s not really saying much is it?

WvW ran pretty fantastic too during the BWE when there was only a few thousand ppl connecting to the servers.

Last beta weekend in TESO had over 500k participants afaik. Granted not all of them reached the lvl to participate in pvp, but still.

Heezdedjim.8902:

Wasn’t there a time when there was no AOE cap? What was happening back then that made them add it?

Horrendous skill lag?

People seem to be forgetting that the WvW we have today is extremely smooth compared to early WvW, where people ran around and just lolled at 30v30+ engagements because of anywhere from 5 to 50 seconds skill lag. And its still not perfect.

Seigfried.5938:

My guess is the removal of mathup forums. I’m pretty sure Anet already regrets doing so.

No doubt is was a very bad move from Anet, the matchup forum was part of wvw content, no matter how dumb many posts there could be.

Without the matchup forum the wvw matches feels empty.