Every time my guild fights on the new borderlands I find myself wanting to post rage on this forum. ArenaNet do not seem to notice that they have a great mode of gameplay with WvW that is going to fade away if they do not start responding to players.
The gimmicks went to far. To much nonsense with shrines, jump pads and events that destroy all your gates.
You got to admit, the dog is cool. I am motivated to take the fire keep just for the dog.
But seriously. I believe that once a viable competitor arrives, improvements will be made and if not, well, we won’t care because we will be playing that game.
Never attribute to malice what can be attributed to incompetence.
Players make pvp not the maps or even the game type. If you can fight another player that is pvp and its up to players on both side to keep it active not the game makers.
Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA
Players make pvp not the maps or even the game type. If you can fight another player that is pvp and its up to players on both side to keep it active not the game makers.
It’s up to developers to encourage this pvp. Too few people spread too thin will only result in everyone failing to find the pvp. EBG has constant pvp because it’s more populated. Why? People are lazy and don’t want to try the new map, sure. But why is it the player’s responsibility to try something new and different when more likely than not it’s going to be empty.
If the devs take out EBG for a week, people will be forced onto the other maps. They will learn the maps. They will find fights on the maps. It will be more fun. Most of the people I hear complaining about the new map say “I don’t like the new map, there are never any maps.” That’s got nothing to do with the map. That’s a lack of people to fight. It’s being dumped on the map because that’s an easy out. In reality, it’s the lack of people on the map that is the issue and if Anet really wants us to get on board with the new map, they need to find a way of forcing us to go there. Otherwise any guild that says “where should we go tonight” will immediately queue for EBG. It’s simply easier.
Players make pvp not the maps or even the game type. If you can fight another player that is pvp and its up to players on both side to keep it active not the game makers.
A lot of the aspects and design features essentially removed the motivation for a lot of serious WvW players. Auto upgrading and insta-WPs remove the incentive to hold things or scout things. The lazerbeemz actually tips the balance even more to the favor of the dominant server. I don’t disagree with what you are saying, but for me personally (on Maguma) now the borderlands are mostly PvD karma training, or getting 1 pushed by opposing blogs 2-4 times our numbers… neither of those “game modes” are particularly fun or interesting to me. WvW is a chore these days with almost nothing positive to show for time spent…
It’s up to developers to encourage this pvp. Too few people spread too thin will only result in everyone failing to find the pvp. EBG has constant pvp because it’s more populated. Why? People are lazy and don’t want to try the new map, sure. But why is it the player’s responsibility to try something new and different when more likely than not it’s going to be empty.
If the devs take out EBG for a week, people will be forced onto the other maps. They will learn the maps. They will find fights on the maps. It will be more fun. Most of the people I hear complaining about the new map say “I don’t like the new map, there are never any maps.” That’s got nothing to do with the map. That’s a lack of people to fight. It’s being dumped on the map because that’s an easy out. In reality, it’s the lack of people on the map that is the issue and if Anet really wants us to get on board with the new map, they need to find a way of forcing us to go there. Otherwise any guild that says “where should we go tonight” will immediately queue for EBG. It’s simply easier.
I assure you that the new map is just not fun. Shutting down EBG would be a horrible mistake that would invoke an extraordinary amount of rage.
Players make pvp not the maps or even the game type. If you can fight another player that is pvp and its up to players on both side to keep it active not the game makers.
It’s both the players and the map. I spent a lot of time last night, too much time TBH, during my rally trying to encourage an opposing guild that had roughly equal numbers to us out into an open field fight by trying to lay siege to the air keep from a distance where they could not counter-siege and had to come out to fight us open field.
The new map took away the ability of an attacker to sit inside a tower and treb a nearby keep in order to encourage open field. But there are almost no spots where an attacker can force defenders into an open field fight. That was easier to do when you could treb from a tower on Alpine. When we found a spot, the defenders didn’t come out to fight us. Instead they found a spot to counter-siege again. That was their player choice yes, but the map design forces those kinds of choices because of the very small number of spots an attacker can open field siege from. And forget about trying to open field siege inner.
We left the map and returned when that same guild came to attack our garrison. Our player choice was to have the courtesy to give them a fight and not put siege down.
The whole rally turned into a boring long siege with an amount of siege resources spent that we’ll never see back in rewards for the time spent in WvW or actual capture of the keep. That’s boring. That’s why everyone is piling into EB to get fights. One of the guys in my guild actually complained about getting only two WvW ranks all night. He would have gotten more if we had real fights (or ktrained a bunch of camps).
Chaba Tangnu
Founding member of [NERF] Fort Engineer and driver for [TLC] The Legion of Charrs
RIP [SIC] Strident Iconoclast
It’s up to developers to encourage this pvp. Too few people spread too thin will only result in everyone failing to find the pvp. EBG has constant pvp because it’s more populated. Why? People are lazy and don’t want to try the new map, sure. But why is it the player’s responsibility to try something new and different when more likely than not it’s going to be empty.
If the devs take out EBG for a week, people will be forced onto the other maps. They will learn the maps. They will find fights on the maps. It will be more fun. Most of the people I hear complaining about the new map say “I don’t like the new map, there are never any maps.” That’s got nothing to do with the map. That’s a lack of people to fight. It’s being dumped on the map because that’s an easy out. In reality, it’s the lack of people on the map that is the issue and if Anet really wants us to get on board with the new map, they need to find a way of forcing us to go there. Otherwise any guild that says “where should we go tonight” will immediately queue for EBG. It’s simply easier.
I assure you that the new map is just not fun. Shutting down EBG would be a horrible mistake that would invoke an extraordinary amount of rage.
How can you know? Have you played the new map when there are more than 10 people on it? Everyone’s hiding in EBG because they don’t want to try an empty map. I’m not saying take EBG away forever. Just try a week without it. People will go to the other maps and play around a little. Maybe they’ll have fun. Maybe they won’t. The point is that we’d actually know rather than have people saying “I hate the new map. It’s no fun. I don’t know what’s happening and there’s nobody to fight.”
It’s up to developers to encourage this pvp. Too few people spread too thin will only result in everyone failing to find the pvp. EBG has constant pvp because it’s more populated. Why? People are lazy and don’t want to try the new map, sure. But why is it the player’s responsibility to try something new and different when more likely than not it’s going to be empty.
If the devs take out EBG for a week, people will be forced onto the other maps. They will learn the maps. They will find fights on the maps. It will be more fun. Most of the people I hear complaining about the new map say “I don’t like the new map, there are never any maps.” That’s got nothing to do with the map. That’s a lack of people to fight. It’s being dumped on the map because that’s an easy out. In reality, it’s the lack of people on the map that is the issue and if Anet really wants us to get on board with the new map, they need to find a way of forcing us to go there. Otherwise any guild that says “where should we go tonight” will immediately queue for EBG. It’s simply easier.
I assure you that the new map is just not fun. Shutting down EBG would be a horrible mistake that would invoke an extraordinary amount of rage.
How can you know? Have you played the new map when there are more than 10 people on it? Everyone’s hiding in EBG because they don’t want to try an empty map. I’m not saying take EBG away forever. Just try a week without it. People will go to the other maps and play around a little. Maybe they’ll have fun. Maybe they won’t. The point is that we’d actually know rather than have people saying “I hate the new map. It’s no fun. I don’t know what’s happening and there’s nobody to fight.”
They take out EBG and no one will log into WvW other then to grab dailies that would be the finial steak in the heart of WvW..you cant force people to play a map they do not enjoy on any level..before you go at me for “not giving it a chance” I was one of the 1st ones on those dam maps the night it opened and I stayed there for a good two weeks end of the day just dident like that much pve in my pvp….but yeah take away EBG and I think I would just remove gw2 from my pc all together as there would just be no point and I woulden’t think im alone on that..
How can you know? Have you played the new map when there are more than 10 people on it? Everyone’s hiding in EBG because they don’t want to try an empty map. I’m not saying take EBG away forever. Just try a week without it. People will go to the other maps and play around a little. Maybe they’ll have fun. Maybe they won’t. The point is that we’d actually know rather than have people saying “I hate the new map. It’s no fun. I don’t know what’s happening and there’s nobody to fight.”
I did.
We had guildraids there. Enemy had 3-4 guilds there. We had Q on the map. Enemy probably did, too. We were attacking keeps. We were defending keeps.
As of now, it’s not so fun as old BLs.
The WP-system makes defending not important, the Upgrade/Dolly-system makes draining supply a lot harder/more time consuming.
The “complex terrain” makes fights more static as a lot of groups are just waiting for the other one to push into your choke instead of you pushing into their choke.
The “complex keeps” makes scouting alone almost impossible, you just can’t check every gate/cataspot/trebspot before a blob can take down a paper gate/wall if it’s not trebs.
Cannons/Oils are still unusable deathtraps against competent enemies, a lot of mortars are… dunno, not so usable as on old BLs (There you could use a lot of mortars to defend keeps, even if S defended N gate. Now I just can’t find a lot of use for mortars, only as “free” counter-trebs.)
“Fun to fight bosses” and “mechanics” (like wind turrets) makes fights more annoying than tactical, you simply can’t see f.e. the wind turrets inside a particle-boom GW2 have during combat.
It just feels like (and my guild agreed) a HoT pve-map which was dropped mid-development and was made into a wvw map.
And the enormous secret-quaggan-kitten room just salt into my wound, as it clearly was made with a lot of love, it’s awesome. Too bad I can’t say the same for the rest of the borderland from a WvW viewpoint.
“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
How can you know? Have you played the new map when there are more than 10 people on it? Everyone’s hiding in EBG because they don’t want to try an empty map. I’m not saying take EBG away forever. Just try a week without it. People will go to the other maps and play around a little. Maybe they’ll have fun. Maybe they won’t. The point is that we’d actually know rather than have people saying “I hate the new map. It’s no fun. I don’t know what’s happening and there’s nobody to fight.”
I agree with what Bubi said.
I’ve also been on the BL with “enough” people some times as a zerg, or a full grown blob. As a zerg it was kind of nice to fight, as a blob we chased the enemies (blob as well) around a pillar for 30 mins.
As a zerg you have no real advantage/disadvantage with a pillar/chokes, as a blob you do.
After anet had the adopt a dev programm it semed as if they wanted to split up blobs which they’re “doing” on the BLs as half the blob is killed by the map alone – problem is, at least on EU (I have now been bronze,silver and gold) there’s solo roamers, havoc groups, zergs and blobs on each and every server – and they all want to play. You can’t really force them to adopt a different size/playstyle “You’re a solo roamer? Too bad! – Oh, you’re a blob, well you can’t play.” The new BL is perfect for roaming groups and small zergs, other than that you shouldn’t really play on it.
That’s my impression for now – I’m kind of put off of wvw in general for now; too many annoying things, so maybe I’m wrong.
they wont, they’ve got pvp league now with 200k in rewards ;d – wvw? pff obsolete
They were going to pay a team of devs to work on wvw, but then someone suggested they should spend the money on their ‘e-sport’…
This is something that bugs me as well. Take money that they could spend marketing the game to a wider audience to market it to a tiny audience.
If they don’t want to spend that money on marketing then hire a concept guy to get WvW back on track. The numbers that a fun, working WvW mode can bring/bring back to the game are huge.
So far that’s 2 people on the thread that say they’ve been on the map when it’s been queued or closer to full. Of everyone complaining, that’s 2.
I don’t think everyone would ignore WvW if they took out EBG, by the way. And I didn’t say take it out forever, just take it out for a week to see. There’s really no harm in trying these things. People didn’t quit for golem week any quicker than they’re quitting for the current state of WvW.
So far that’s 2 people on the thread that say they’ve been on the map when it’s been queued or closer to full. Of everyone complaining, that’s 2.
I don’t think everyone would ignore WvW if they took out EBG, by the way. And I didn’t say take it out forever, just take it out for a week to see. There’s really no harm in trying these things. People didn’t quit for golem week any quicker than they’re quitting for the current state of WvW.
Probably no harm done, but players would still complain a kittenton. Remeber golem week…
So far that’s 2 people on the thread that say they’ve been on the map when it’s been queued or closer to full. Of everyone complaining, that’s 2.
I don’t think everyone would ignore WvW if they took out EBG, by the way. And I didn’t say take it out forever, just take it out for a week to see. There’s really no harm in trying these things. People didn’t quit for golem week any quicker than they’re quitting for the current state of WvW.
The map gets worse the fuller it is – or you need 3 guild groups a 20 to play it properly. And hope that the attackers are also 3 groups a 20 and not a blob.
So far that’s 2 people on the thread that say they’ve been on the map when it’s been queued or closer to full. Of everyone complaining, that’s 2.
I don’t think everyone would ignore WvW if they took out EBG, by the way. And I didn’t say take it out forever, just take it out for a week to see. There’s really no harm in trying these things. People didn’t quit for golem week any quicker than they’re quitting for the current state of WvW.
Probably no harm done, but players would still complain a kittenton. Remeber golem week…
Not that this would change much nowadays, though.
But you see how much complaining there is already?
So far that’s 2 people on the thread that say they’ve been on the map when it’s been queued or closer to full. Of everyone complaining, that’s 2.
I don’t think everyone would ignore WvW if they took out EBG, by the way. And I didn’t say take it out forever, just take it out for a week to see. There’s really no harm in trying these things. People didn’t quit for golem week any quicker than they’re quitting for the current state of WvW.
First you say that we don’t have the right to complain ‘cos we did not even tried it.
When we complain after we tried it, you say if it’s just a few ppl complaining, the map is fine?
It is not. It’s a quaggan pve-map forced to be a wvw-pve-mix. It’s not fun for wvw.
And fun > everything else.
I repeat.
IT.
IS.
NOT.
FUN.
Not even with Qs on the map.
Okay, true, it’s more fun than watching esportz gw2 spvp, but that still doesn’t make it so enjoyable as the old BLs.
You can try to force ppl into it. Ppl will play it. Will they have so much fun that they never want to go back to EB? I doubt it. The map is flawed, and you can’t change that with more ppl there.
“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
So far that’s 2 people on the thread that say they’ve been on the map when it’s been queued or closer to full. Of everyone complaining, that’s 2.
I don’t think everyone would ignore WvW if they took out EBG, by the way. And I didn’t say take it out forever, just take it out for a week to see. There’s really no harm in trying these things. People didn’t quit for golem week any quicker than they’re quitting for the current state of WvW.
If you watched a bad movie, i mean a really bad movie at home, would it be way better if you watched it in a full cinema? Yeah, i dont think so, same goes for this map. It is flawed and being there on your own or with a full queue wont make a difference.
Edit: horrible typos.
Big Babou, Ranger for life.
Madness Rises [Rise] – Banners Hold.
Don’t argue with idiots, they pull you down their level and own you with experience.
Melanion, the players have voted with their feet and the result is clear as day: The new borderlands have been rejected and that’s the bottom line. Force me to get there and I won’t just be estranged from the game mode but gone for good.
A PvP map should be the hidden star of a game mode, the foundation on which the gameplay unfolds. The new borderlands have been designed with a similar mindset as the HoT PvE maps: The map is the star and what you do there unfolds around its obstacles and challenges and therein lies the rub.
So far that’s 2 people on the thread that say they’ve been on the map when it’s been queued or closer to full. Of everyone complaining, that’s 2.
I don’t think everyone would ignore WvW if they took out EBG, by the way. And I didn’t say take it out forever, just take it out for a week to see. There’s really no harm in trying these things. People didn’t quit for golem week any quicker than they’re quitting for the current state of WvW.
I didn’t log onto GW2 other than the 30 seconds it takes to get the dailies during the entire golem week. About have my guild did the same. I’m curious now 19 days later if you still have the same view about just closing EB and hoping for the best. LOL
A lot of people play in WvW because they like the big fights.
The problem with the desert bl is that it is too big, has way too much pve crap.
In EB and the old bls you could get into a fight within minutes. In the desert bl you can be roaming around looking for the enemy for more than 30 minutes!
Because most people dont like the new bl, you rarely get orange swords. And when you do, it takes you so long to get there that by the time you arrive, the enemy have left.
All the new BLs have done have reduced fights and increased PvD!
Complained about WvW before it became cool.
I used to be a PvE player like you, then I played Guild Wars 2
They were going to pay a team of devs to work on wvw, but then someone suggested they should spend the money on their ‘e-sport’…
200k doesn’t buy much development work and very little design or graphics work. I don’t know what the new map cost to build but it is probably a very large number.
Sarcasm For Hire [SFH]
“Youre lips are movin and youre complaining about something thats wingeing.”
So far that’s 2 people on the thread that say they’ve been on the map when it’s been queued or closer to full. Of everyone complaining, that’s 2.
I don’t think everyone would ignore WvW if they took out EBG, by the way. And I didn’t say take it out forever, just take it out for a week to see. There’s really no harm in trying these things. People didn’t quit for golem week any quicker than they’re quitting for the current state of WvW.
I’ve been on the map when it has people on it.
First problem was simply getting to the enemy to engage them with the extreme multi-tiers there it wasn’t fun.
Second problem was that once you got to them they simply port, or if they’re close enough run into a structure. They have almost no incentive to come out to fight us, and with the tower/keep already fortified it would take forever and a day just to get in.
Third problem was that when they would engage us there was an extreme amount of PvE elements around to interfere with the fight.
@Kaiser I call it annoying and disappointing. Some of it is actually fun, most of it isn’t… I’m looking at you southeast Desert BL corner… looking at you real hard…
[AIR] Henge of Denravi aka Pink Abu, [BAMA] RollTide
chopping wood one day, dropped a piece,
all I could say was, “…fell…foot…”
New map too BIG!!!! Why you make so biiiig! New content not working cuz too big! Shrink da map!
The Alpine borderlands was bigger. 2/3 of the Alpine borderlands was never used, making it feel smaller. It is unfamiliarity with the map that makes you think it’s bigger.
That being said, the Desert Borderlands are still absolute poop. There’s absolutely no incentive to PvP on that map.
Expac sucks for WvW players. Asura master race
Beastgate | Faerie Law
Currently residing on SBI
New map too BIG!!!! Why you make so biiiig! New content not working cuz too big! Shrink da map!
The Alpine borderlands was bigger. 2/3 of the Alpine borderlands was never used, making it feel smaller. It is unfamiliarity with the map that makes you think it’s bigger.
That being said, the Desert Borderlands are still absolute poop. There’s absolutely no incentive to PvP on that map.
Actually it wasnt bigger. It was a rectangle slightly taller than desert, but also thinner.
When I get home I think I might post a thread with an overlay comparison of the two maps I did, complete with a 3D line representations of rough alpine tower/keep layout on top of desert border. The difference of the much, much tighter alpine border is quite noticable.
I quit the game due to WvW changes… It was the only aspect that I loved and they ruined it… Now I see that they are ignoring community( They even delete FB posts about some words from devs regarding WvW problems!)… And then they are surprised why exp isn’t going out as much as it should… Wehn those maps were in beta we told them countless times that it is kitten and shouldn’t be changed, but they still didn’t change their minds… ehhhh, but basically I’m happy that I quit the game, have time for other mmos, that are over better now, after HoT’s release… mmos like: WoW, BD, Skyforge, EC, CU. And they are all in beta state, but still better than live version of current GW2… I will just pass and wait for GW3… If they don’t run out of money till then…
I don’t think everyone would ignore WvW if they took out EBG, by the way.
No, many of them would ignore the game entirely.
You don’t incentivize one type of play by removing another. It didn’t work with nerfing dungeons to ‘force’ people into Fractals, and it will not work by removing EBG to ‘force’ people into the BL. What it will ‘force’ people to do is find something else to do that they enjoy, which will most likely be outside of this game. The new BL is not an acquired taste, it’s not ‘Little Johnny eat your peas,’ it’s a map and an activity that many people actively choose not to take part in. Removing the choice of EBG or BL is effectively amending the choice to BL or play another game.
New map too BIG!!!! Why you make so biiiig! New content not working cuz too big! Shrink da map!
The Alpine borderlands was bigger. 2/3 of the Alpine borderlands was never used, making it feel smaller. It is unfamiliarity with the map that makes you think it’s bigger.
That being said, the Desert Borderlands are still absolute poop. There’s absolutely no incentive to PvP on that map.
Actually it wasnt bigger. It was a rectangle slightly taller than desert, but also thinner.
When I get home I think I might post a thread with an overlay comparison of the two maps I did, complete with a 3D line representations of rough alpine tower/keep layout on top of desert border. The difference of the much, much tighter alpine border is quite noticable.
I doubt he’s talking about land area; he’s likely referring to actual useful play space, of which there was more in the Alpine BL. Much of the Desert BL is cordoned off into zones that present no useful play space. The new map and its mechanics destroyed the counterplay between keeps, towers, and camps, and removed most of the incentive to hold these things that could be used to bait fights. Most open areas provide too minimal a threat to structure to make them useful to the PPT crowd. They are also are too far or geographically separated from spawn points for fights, which means no one will actually fight there unless they trip over each other. These areas provide no tactical or strategic value on their own, and are therefore effectively meaningless; you may as well be wandering around the arena in OS.
New map too BIG!!!! Why you make so biiiig! New content not working cuz too big! Shrink da map!
The Alpine borderlands was bigger. 2/3 of the Alpine borderlands was never used, making it feel smaller. It is unfamiliarity with the map that makes you think it’s bigger.
That being said, the Desert Borderlands are still absolute poop. There’s absolutely no incentive to PvP on that map.
When talking about relative size you have to take into account the verticality of the new map as well. Sort of like looking at a 2-story house versus a 1-story house.
I’ve gone to the new maps, and run around them just to check it out. They are much larger when verticality is taken into account. But it’s more than that. The old Alpine maps were far easier to navigate than the new maps. Most people don’t like having 1/2 their playtime spent navigating, they just want to play.
