Guild Wars 2

Caedmon.6798:

+ the rendering issue when they are able to attack you while being invis

This is the root of all the problems with thieves, IMO. If the rendering worked half as well as it should and thieves showed up right after stealth none of this would be a problem.
They wouldn’t be able to go full zerkers so the dmg would drop a lot. They wouldn’t be able to get into enemy back lines and drop a squishy target while having a a good chance to escape if they fail. Their builds would have to change so they can be of help to their server, unless they stay solo roamers picking off single targets, which would lessen a lot of the peopling complaining about thieves.
But since the rendering issue doesn’t seem like it will get any better it seems like we will be stuck with the QQ’ing from both sides. My advice: get a stress ball or exercise or something when getting to upset at the BS, avoid the forums (as much as possible cause we all love drama), and remember its just a (relatively new) game. It’ll either get fixed and people will be happy or it wont and people will leave, Anet just needs to decide which they want.

I can careless if thieves get nerf. Even if thieves get nerf… the people that cry about thieves still going to get face roll by thieves. Why? Because now they are facing with a new dilemma. I’m not going to ruin it for others. BUT when you guys figure it out. GJ

Endure pain suggestion is just dumb. 5 seconds or slightly more with trait and 90s cooldown. Even players without stealth will just walk away much less a thief that can stealth.

People don’t make a hundred threads complaining about thief in spvp because they don’t need to spend time building a character just to find out they’re better off playing a thief in wvw. Don’t like your choice in pvp? 5 minutes and you can play a new class, as evident by the warrior population in pvp.

I’d also like it if everyone rolled more cookie-cutter thiefs, ele d/d, and the sort, the more popular a build is the faster they nerf it :)

Eshei.6803:

I can careless if thieves get nerf. Even if thieves get nerf… the people that cry about thieves still going to get face roll by thieves. Why? Because now they are facing with a new dilemma. I’m not going to ruin it for others. BUT when you guys figure it out. GJ

Most of us had never even posted in these threads until the rendering issue.
Thieves are not as strong as they think, its just that a glitch with the game that temporarily gives them a crutch :P
So many of us feel they should get a slight handicap till rendering is fixed to even it out. After that (either the handicap or the rendering issue fixed) im sure the forums will die down.

Doomdesire.9365:

I challenge everyone who thinks glass cannon thieves are OP. Sincerely, a non glass cannon thief who has never been killed by them in a 1v1. Spvp, you name the date, ill be there

This is true. A non glass cannon thief usually has no problem killing a glass cannon thief. Once they wasted their burst because it was dodged they are done.

Also, kind of like that video posted about glass cannon thieves, it is definitly not a build for WVW. They will die more so than not. The only use they have is to kill one straggler in an open field. That is about it. How does that benefit in WVW?

ViRuE.3612:

I’m also pretty tired about Thief QQ. It is literally beyond a joke. I’m not going to type L2P for people but seriously, if you DON’T know here are some tips:

1. Stealth is NOT invulnerability. So here is the thing, you can use AoE when a thief stealths or you can (if you have one) just swing whatever weapon around. You won’t see the damage but you will likely kill the thief, they do tend to stealth at the last moment. Thieves get targetted by other theives ALL THE TIME, and I can’t count how many of them I’ve finished as they lay downed after coming out of stealth.

2. Stealth is NOT a get out of jail free card. So here is the second thing, you can use channeled skills that as long as you start when you CAN target the thief will continue to hit them when they go in to stealth. Same applies for your pets. Buggy game, but hey that is the way it is.

3. Insane damage per second DOES mean “glass cannon”. I don’t care what you say, if you are hitting what some poster on here laughably called a “bunker guardian” for 4-7k (I say laughably because the poster doesn’t play sPvP and doesn’t actually know the specs and traits for a bunker guardian) then you as the thief are specced all out assault and made of glass. Thief does not have any fancy defensive cool downs other than stealth, and I already pointed out how weak that actually is. So if you can survive the “coming out of stealth burst”, just like most MMOs, and know how to play YOUR class you can likely win because if you don’t know the thief shares the lowest HP pool.

4. WvWvW is a team game with team objectives. I suggest you learn to live with it, your server also has good/bad/excellent thieves running around too. If you think WvWvW is all about just what happens in your tiny bubble you are playing it all wrong. Learn your class, roll a thief for sPVP, learn to use defensive cool downs, roll/dodge and use YOUR skills appropriately.

5. Rock paper scissors STILL applies, to every MMO but more so in GW2, so many ways to spec within one class. If you can beat some thieves with a particular spec don’t be surprised if another thief can destroy you. So many choices for most classes, less so for thieves however.

6. After three rounds of nerfs to thieves the last major balance patch pushed MORE of us in to backstab builds. You may as well forget Anet riding to your rescue and dumbing down the game to suit your limited knowledge of other classes. Seriously. The next major balance change will likely put soft caps or limit crit damage overall, that means to everyone. I will personally have a rueful smile the day that happens as my thief won’t be taking 14k kill shots and other enormous spikes. But I will still be causing people to run crying to the forums on my thief

And finally, from every dev interviewer of Arenanet I can recall the classes played by them in WvWvW were predominantly Ele and Warrior. Some mesmer. Any Anet tag I’ve seen on a class in WvWvW in my personal experience has been Warrior. interestingly I don’t see any devs QQing, just getting on and playing the game.

quoting so more people read this intelligent man’s thoughts on the subject. there’s too much QQing, this post needs more attention

There’s an easy solution for people that get killed by thieves and believe they are op:
If you just want to kitten around in WvW, stay in one place when you’re attacked, spam/click skills, then roll a bunker build guardian. You’ll never complain about thieves again.

Disclaimer: The above advice may not work for people that are completely terrible in the game.

The only problem I have with Thieves is that maybe 5% of them are even fun to fight. Either they try heartseeker spam and die horribly, or they perma stealth and just really aren’t fun to fight. The game mechanics aren’t fun. It isn’t about annoying in a good/anticipatory way, it’s about spending an entire fight basically waiting. The window of opportunity to fight a stealth-hungry Thief is about 5-10% it seems, and it just feels like poor design. Not necessarily poor design I suppose, but like the game isn’t designed around it, even though it exists.

In my opinion, anyway. Definitely fixable, but perhaps that’s just how they want the class to play.

Since this is a troll topic on thieves r not OP, n those that got killed by a permanent invis thief are obviously noob, here is my contribution:

I play a level 80 ranger, n since I started going in wvw only at level 80, I have never gotten killed by a thief. It is so easy to spot a thief coming in, especially in an open space. You just have to spot a slight change in pixelation on ur screen. Which is why when I move in an open space, I will take 3 steps, rotate 360 degrees for a few min to see if there r any thieves trying to backstab me, then take another 3 steps. Hmmm, that might explain why I have nv been killed by thief before as I have not moved out of my spawn area yet.

Honestly since i started running a hammer build on my warrior I pretty much just laugh at thieves as I stun lock then to death.

pigtaro.2749:

Hmmm, that might explain why I have nv been killed by thief before as I have not moved out of my spawn area yet.

At first I was like, ’wow…never been killed by a thief on your ranger?" Then I read the last sentence. LoL

Foss.4830:

Honestly since i started running a hammer build on my warrior I pretty much just laugh at thieves as I stun lock then to death.

Want to duel? I haven’t had any issues beating hammer warriors

Hurts pretty bad if the warr connects with anything though :P

FourTwenty.4268:

quoting so more people read this intelligent man’s thoughts on the subject. there’s too much QQing, this post needs more attention

I can sum up his post in more compact view.
1) Stay here and swing your weapon, thief surely will be stay infront of you and die from laugh. And if you trow some aoe, you instagib him in no time, regardless of his position. Thief still alive? U bad bro, go roll bunker guardian.
2) Use channeled skills. Even melee weapons have ton of them, just launch some 100b combo, thief will be automatically pulled and slaughtered. Thief still alive? U very bad bro, go roll bunker guardian.
3) Survive initial burst and bam, autowin. And you better be bunker guardian, just in case.
4) Go somewhere else, with less thieves around. And take bubble of bunker guardians with you, this game is all about teamplay. Also, you can roll a thief.
5) If some thief kill you regardless of your class, build and skill, it’s fine, he just run with some very clever spec. Try to roll bunker guardian.
6) Still losing? It’s all Anet fault, blame them, not thief. Anyway, bunker Guardian still available.

RedOwl.7496:

pigtaro.2749:

Hmmm, that might explain why I have nv been killed by thief before as I have not moved out of my spawn area yet.

At first I was like, ’wow…never been killed by a thief on your ranger?" Then I read the last sentence. LoL

Nay, my ranger got kitten by thieves countless times most of e times, I was looking on e chat. But would not make any difference even if I saw thieves coming.

I am tired of this kind of inmoral threads, you are trying to defend the undefendable, thiefs are op and even if is an anet issue it is affecting us, the players who dont play as thieves. An action need to be made to make the game fair for everyone.

I’m sick of thieves claiming there’s nothing OP about the biggest burst in the game, constant stealth, and the ability to spam a single skill 5 times in 2 seconds.

of COURSE they’re broken.

If you play a thief and you don’t think they’re broken then you’re bad at being a thief.

Miku.7156:

I am tired of this kind of inmoral threads, you are trying to defend the undefendable, thiefs are op and even if is an anet issue it is affecting us, the players who dont play as thieves. An action need to be made to make the game fair for everyone.

Can you make a valid argument instead of just saying thieves are OP? As in, a REAL valid argument, not just a picture of chat log with high numbers. Any class can do high numbers. Btw, if you’re alone in WvW, look behind your back every now and then. No thief approaches from behind in stealth. They save that for the engagement.

I love how people blame thief OPness on “stealth” while I go around killing players *WITHOUT even USING stealth on them on my thief.

Stealth is NOT the problem with Thieves. The problem is MMORPG players are NOT *used to fighting a melee class with mass utility.

Now, read my signature.

Crawford.4135:

I love how people blame thief OPness on “stealth” while I go around killing players *WITHOUT even USING stealth on them on my thiekittenStealth is NOT the problem with Thieves. The problem is MMORPG players are NOT *used to fighting a melee class with mass utility.

Now, read my signature.

So, stealth can be removed from thieves and it will be ok? Oh, it’s nice to hear that. Hey, Anet, are you reading this thread? Remove stealth from thieves for balance sake, they agree with that, and we all stop our complaining!
BTW, good troll attempt.

It surprises me Anet ignores every post there has ever been made about the thief and these issues.

Beachead.4127:

All I am reading is “I am trying to defend my overpowered class from getting nerfed so everyone else should l2p. I am scared so i will lash out at everyone else and call them nubs”

Get over it. Thevies are one of the most overpowered classes i have ever seen in the many mmos i have played.

This.

It’s like thieves are playing an entirely different game than the rest of us.

Rednik.3809:

FourTwenty.4268:

quoting so more people read this intelligent man’s thoughts on the subject. there’s too much QQing, this post needs more attention

I can sum up his post in more compact view.
1) Stay here and swing your weapon, thief surely will be stay infront of you and die from laugh. And if you trow some aoe, you instagib him in no time, regardless of his position. Thief still alive? U bad bro, go roll bunker guardian.
2) Use channeled skills. Even melee weapons have ton of them, just launch some 100b combo, thief will be automatically pulled and slaughtered. Thief still alive? U very bad bro, go roll bunker guardian.
3) Survive initial burst and bam, autowin. And you better be bunker guardian, just in case.
4) Go somewhere else, with less thieves around. And take bubble of bunker guardians with you, this game is all about teamplay. Also, you can roll a thief.
5) If some thief kill you regardless of your class, build and skill, it’s fine, he just run with some very clever spec. Try to roll bunker guardian.
6) Still losing? It’s all Anet fault, blame them, not thief. Anyway, bunker Guardian still available.

That is too funny! And it perfectly sums up what most thieves say in response to criticism of their class. Except for the NON delusional ones who can admit the class is has issues and it needs to be fixed.

Crawford.4135:

I love how people blame thief OPness on “stealth” while I go around killing players *WITHOUT even USING stealth on them on my thiekittenStealth is NOT the problem with Thieves. The problem is MMORPG players are NOT *used to fighting a melee class with mass utility.

Now, read my signature.

I agree.

Rednik.3809:

I can sum up his post in more compact view.
1) Stay here and swing your weapon, thief surely will be stay infront of you and die from laugh. And if you trow some aoe, you instagib him in no time, regardless of his position. Thief still alive? U bad bro, go roll bunker guardian.
2) Use channeled skills. Even melee weapons have ton of them, just launch some 100b combo, thief will be automatically pulled and slaughtered. Thief still alive? U very bad bro, go roll bunker guardian.
3) Survive initial burst and bam, autowin. And you better be bunker guardian, just in case.
4) Go somewhere else, with less thieves around. And take bubble of bunker guardians with you, this game is all about teamplay. Also, you can roll a thief.
5) If some thief kill you regardless of your class, build and skill, it’s fine, he just run with some very clever spec. Try to roll bunker guardian.
6) Still losing? It’s all Anet fault, blame them, not thief. Anyway, bunker Guardian still available.

It is true, you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink. Not that it will make the slightest difference but here goes…

1. Thief is either doing 2 things if backstab thief, running or getting behind you. If running it is harder but STILL counterable but assume they aren’t running yet so they are getting BEHIND you. They have 3s to get there if traited, so even the slow witted should be able to work out where they are going. Sword/dagger is also going to try being behind you for the daze. Not rocket science right?

2. GW2 is an interesting game where you don’t need a target to actually attack something. You might not have noticed. Channeled skills and pets will still hit. Don’t have any on your favorite weapon set? Not running with a pet? This point isn’t for you.

3. A glass cannon thief is likely running with 14k health (zerker gear with some vit on trinkets) or less and no defensive cooldowns. Compare that to, say, a 25k necro with “two” health bars and high toughness. Seriously, the thief has probably been hit by AoE already unless you are 1v1 in the wide open or you played well and got a hit or two in or used reflection or whatever else you have. Can’t deal with that? No one here can help you.

4. No. Take your own thieves with you, nothing excels at beating thieves like other thieves – particularly good at beating glass cannon thieves are any other type of thief. Again, not exactly string theory is it?

5. Again, no. Game is extremely well designed, even a guardian (which I mentioned once in reference to another poster but you like to bring up all the time) can spec in a dozen different ways. Key point is that going all or nothing in to one spec leaves you vulnerable, so thieves just like any other class have multiple vulnerabilities whatever spec they are running. Crucially though they are even MORE vulnerable than other classes because they don’t possess defensive cool downs and have a very low health pool. Your current spec might be ideal to beat some of them… or not.

6. Actually it is more than likely to be your fault, not Anet.

A well played s/d thief is harder to catch and kill, very good ones who have played a lot of sPvP will destroy you as easily as a backstab thief. Most of you don’t know it yet but I guess in time you will – backstab thieves are just so popular because Anet most recent balance changes pushed more of them to the simplest build. I run duo with a guardian all the time. Only time we EVER got frustrated was a good s/d thief who ran rings round us. Fortunately he was nice enough to beat us over and over again during an hour or so which gave us a few clues on how to beat that spec.

Honestly, you need to learn and adapt OR take the rough with the smooth. If you are really struggling that bad, post your class and link your spec – unless you are a ranger in which case no one can help you as that class needs buffed.

WvW in my experience is not 1:1 but x vs y with x usually being larger than 10. In this situation you have a lot of cooldowns going on because you fight OTHER people. And that is where thieves come in … they usually bypass the larger battle, infiltrate the backline where the soft armor types are, where those are that are already low on health, etc. and it is THERE that they slaughter their prey without ANY fear of consequences.

An warrior might dash into the backline as well and cause havok but he’ll pay for it. The thief simply sneaks in, pulls off a few kills and disappears without being harmed. A few moments later he pays the next visit.

All this tall talk of being able to counter thieves are useless in the situation I described because it would mean to NOT fight the other 10+ players but keep all your skills ready in case a thief comes by. And THIS – from my point of view – shows just how unbalanced thieves are in WvW.

Add to that that MANY thieves I have encountered use hack tools as well because the players know it’d be easily spottet if a Necro ran that but most hack tools blend in seamlessly with the thief.

@ViRuE.3612

1. You cant strike if you cant see where is target. Blow up you AOE and long CD into thin air? Right, thief just laugh, run away, and return, this time to deal with you without your long CD. Not rocket science right?

2. Sure, everyone run with channeled ranged weapon all day every day. And all whose channeled skill always instagib poor thief on sight.

3. So everyone must play necro or pray for “thief probably been hit by AoE already”. Can’t deal with that? No one here can help you.

4. Yay. The thief is so well balanced that you just need another thief to defeat him.

5. Game is extremely well designed, so you must have exact counterspec to this thief. Or die.

6. Sure, everyone on this threads are just plain bad and cannot deal with oh-so-well-balanced-and-clearly-not-op thief. By a strange coincidence, no other class does not cause such problems, but this does not mean anything, right? People just unreasonably hate these brave and skilled guys who jump on them from stealth, all games with stealth have this hatred. Envious scrubs.

Honestly I can kill most people with my thief by pressing two buttons. The class isn’t overpowered if rendering worked right BUT the bar is set really low in regards to skill level required to be successful. Basically a monkey can play a thief.

Unfortunately unless I am drunk or stupid, stealth in this game is a get out of jail free card and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. regardless though, no nerfs needed … Culling and rendering just needs to get fixed.

My ele is vastly more capable and versatile overall, and even it isn’t op

The way I see it those who play the class that is doing the best since they have the most advantage will never see faults in wvw system if one class is overpowered combat wise.

erm just saying….u think our dodging is off?!?!. believe me i am good at dodging, but a thiefthat is only 2 sec visible and 30 secs invisible and backstabs u and u MAYBE get away from that attack with 1.5 k health left…..there is no way to dodge when the thief goes right invisible after that only to attack u again with backstab.the only thieves im complaining about is the ones where the thief stays 90 percent of the fight invisible and kills a ton of enemies by only pushing 5 buttons over and over. that needs to change!
the thieves that use a different build are definitely killable and a fair 1v1 duel!