Guild Wars 2

Valik Shin.9027:

U may be right. But if so anet has a very messed up and clouded view

The point of my thread.

See this is just another gvg thread labeled as something else, @op if they have the tech for wvw and the tech for custom arenas then its not to hard to think that tdm maps for guilds would be that hard to do. If that will happen is up to anet. Also everyone who plays gvg assumes it has a huge following in this game, I literally never here anything about gvg besides they same people on these forums saying everyone loves and watches it. I tried watching it, hammer warriors and blast combos hide any nuances of the game behind a wall of particle effects. As for the stat buff from orb meh what ever, it has as much of a chance to kill my unsupported meta (5 man roaming) as it does yours (gvg) its a bonus but so is the passive health from PPT and buffs from wvw rank, or the wild swings you get in stats from builds, gear, foods and on kill sigils, you just deal with it and be the better player.

the only thing I really agree with is that wvw is to reliant on siege and taking keeps then it is on defeating your enemy in battle, that’s why I like the addition of the point for spiking from the orb buff.

Ok so going back and reading some more I can see that a lot of people hear never were on the receiving end of a beat down because of the other team getting a massive stat boost. Trust me its not fun

Samhayn.2385:

See this is just another gvg thread labeled as something else, @op if they have the tech for wvw and the tech for custom arenas then its not to hard to think that tdm maps for guilds would be that hard to do. If that will happen is up to anet. Also everyone who plays gvg assumes it has a huge following in this game, I literally never here anything about gvg besides they same people on these forums saying everyone loves and watches it. I tried watching it, hammer warriors and blast combos hide any nuances of the game behind a wall of particle effects. As for the stat buff from orb meh what ever, it has as much of a chance to kill my unsupported meta (5 man roaming) as it does yours (gvg) its a bonus but so is the passive health from PPT and buffs from wvw rank, or the wild swings you get in stats from builds, gear, foods and on kill sigils, you just deal with it and be the better player.

the only thing I really agree with is that wvw is to reliant on siege and taking keeps then it is on defeating your enemy in battle, that’s why I like the addition of the point for spiking from the orb buff.

This isn’t about gvg but about letting us play how we want. It’s about supporting WvW w/ the proper amount of resources.

Honestly its about allowing your 5man roaming game to flourish in WvW.

ps. what server u play on?

Samhayn.2385:

See this is just another gvg thread labeled as something else, @op if they have the tech for wvw and the tech for custom arenas then its not to hard to think that tdm maps for guilds would be that hard to do. If that will happen is up to anet. Also everyone who plays gvg assumes it has a huge following in this game, I literally never here anything about gvg besides they same people on these forums saying everyone loves and watches it. I tried watching it, hammer warriors and blast combos hide any nuances of the game behind a wall of particle effects. As for the stat buff from orb meh what ever, it has as much of a chance to kill my unsupported meta (5 man roaming) as it does yours (gvg) its a bonus but so is the passive health from PPT and buffs from wvw rank, or the wild swings you get in stats from builds, gear, foods and on kill sigils, you just deal with it and be the better player.

the only thing I really agree with is that wvw is to reliant on siege and taking keeps then it is on defeating your enemy in battle, that’s why I like the addition of the point for spiking from the orb buff.

Ironic since GvG has nothing to do with the topic. But ya…. lets go back to that!

All forms of small fights and even fights are going to be harmed by bloodlust, ascended weps, and ascended armor due to be coming out. His point is that all of the additional content we are getting isnt anything anyone wants. But were still getting it.

What we do want is actual balance and a sense that they care what is going on with a market that is far larger than their esport pipe dream (4k viewers at PAX hooray!)

Jinks.2057:

The fact that you refuse to see that WvW is a week long competition is rather amusing. Do 3 servers compete for points in WvW? Is there a winner and loser? It’s a fact that WvW is a competition….can’t refute that.

Rock – paper – scissors has a winner and loser, but cannot be considered a competitive game. Simply by chance one side wins the match. The outcome is not based on actual skill, there is no real competition. In the context of WvW coverage decides the winner of the match-up. Most WvW’ers on my server have to work on the next day, therefore the night coverage is low. During the night our opponents can accumuluate points without resistance. How can you call a gamemode that lacks opponents competitive?! Competitive games are built one the idea of equal numbers, equal starting positions, equal gear, … . WvW is the opposite of competitive.

Jinks.2057:

I am simply here stating even though GW2 WvW is fraught w/ all those horrible issues its VASTLY more popular than any sPvP/tPvP venue. So logically as a company you would allocate man hours and resources to the bigger portion of your player base.

Do you know the numbers? No, you don’t. In WvW the players form a zerg and rush from door to door, leaving the rest of the map unpopulated. In sPvP, however, with the server structure you will never encounter a zerg or skilllag. Your individual observation cannot measure the popularity, neither of sPvP nor of WvW. The most “popular”, popular means 80 viewers on average, WvW/GvG streamer is the elementalist from Second Law. The sPvP/tPvP streams average 200 – 300. That’s still a low number, but definetly more than WvW. The hardcore WvW/GvG community lacks numbers, but is egocentric and vocal.

FirstBlood.7359:

Jinks.2057:

The fact that you refuse to see that WvW is a week long competition is rather amusing. Do 3 servers compete for points in WvW? Is there a winner and loser? It’s a fact that WvW is a competition….can’t refute that.

Rock – paper – scissors has a winner and loser, but cannot be considered a competitive game. Simply by chance one side wins the match. The outcome is not based on actual skill, there is no real competition. In the context of WvW coverage decides the winner of the match-up. Most WvW’ers on my server have to work on the next day, therefore the night coverage is low. During the night our opponents can accumuluate points without resistance. How can you call a gamemode that lacks opponents competitive?! Competitive games are built one the idea of equal numbers, equal starting positions, equal gear, … . WvW is the opposite of competitive.

Jinks.2057:

I am simply here stating even though GW2 WvW is fraught w/ all those horrible issues its VASTLY more popular than any sPvP/tPvP venue. So logically as a company you would allocate man hours and resources to the bigger portion of your player base.

Do you know the numbers? No, you don’t. In WvW the players form a zerg and rush from door to door, leaving the rest of the map unpopulated. In sPvP, however, with the server structure you will never encounter a zerg or skilllag. Your individual observation cannot measure the popularity, neither of sPvP nor of WvW. The most “popular”, popular means 80 viewers on average, WvW/GvG streamer is the elementalist from Second Law. The sPvP/tPvP streams average 200 – 300. That’s still a low number, but definetly more than WvW. The hardcore WvW/GvG community is small, egocentric and vocal.

Wow. and yet again another person who just simply doesnt get it. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH GVG. The entire debate about that can be delegated to other threads and other reasons. EVEN FIGHTS AND ACTUAL BALANCE CHANGES ARE THE CORE. caps are fun!

this has nothing to do with guilds that like to fight each other, the few egotistical ones who apparently soured the responses of every other person who constantly posts on gvg and the scene as a whole. The even fights there are only a reaction to the terrible mechanics and outright avoidance of any semblance of balance that WvW has. Whether it be population, class balance, population balance you name it. This has led to problems and these problems arent even being looked at.

WvW is meant to be imbalanced. Yay. sooooo time to stop playing then?

Valik Shin.9027:

I’m looking at it from a money aspect. If people don’t play it actually lifts pressure from the servers. Unless those people were buying stuff with real money anet is actually helped by people quitting

Not true. People who don’t buy stuff with real money are critical to GW2:

Those who do spend money need people to play with or they will leave the game. In a way, “freeloaders” are not freeloaders at all but “employees” of Anet who keep the “real customers” (those who spend real money) coming back for more.

@jinks, I play on SoR, moved there after the crash of HoD back when SoR was a middleing tier (tier 6?), played when the orbs where in the game too, orbs didn’t bother me then either, the fact that they could be exploited by a single thief was the real problem.

as for balance in wvw, its never going to happen, be it numbers or just a gimmikie game mechanic that enters the meta, I mean look right now, hammer warriors or bunker condition necros are not op as a build, but if you stack multiples of the same build/class together they become stupidly difficult to deal with. That is why wvw is not the place to try and balance around.

the best balance I would ever hope for in wvw is the ability to acquire gear on par and at a comparable rate to our pve brethren, this way I could log in and play the parts of the game I like playing with out having to do the parts that bore me.

Jinks.2057:

SpehssMehreen.5897:

Perception =/= Reality, go to the pvp forums and post this topic, Pvp is definetly not the focus, might have the “publicity” but not the focus, its been stated many times already, all game modes especially wvw are the focus.

and fyi, Pvp is not a “dead” game mode

No WvW is not the focus.

We don’t want orb bonuses

We don’t want siegewars

PvP is dead. When PAX only gets that many subscribers for a major tourney and the comments are from ppl who don’t play…its dead. When I step into the mists and am the ONLY person there b/c I’m waiting on a WvW queue….its dead.

If WvW was the focus we’d have Devs listening to us…….they are ignoring what WvW players are telling them and continuing to focus on a dead (yes you can’t prove otherwise) gametype.

thank you

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/members/SpehssMehreen-5897/showposts

Can anyone confirm this fella as Anet employee b/c just reading through his post history is pretty lulz

Hhmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I watch Starcraft 2 NASL tournaments but I only play SC2 on occasion.

I don’t understand statements like “pvp is dead” or “this game is dead”. As long as the servers are running this game is alive.

Honestly why is anyone playing this game if they think it is utter crap?

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

Jinks.2057:

SpehssMehreen.5897:

Perception =/= Reality, go to the pvp forums and post this topic, Pvp is definetly not the focus, might have the “publicity” but not the focus, its been stated many times already, all game modes especially wvw are the focus.

and fyi, Pvp is not a “dead” game mode

No WvW is not the focus.

We don’t want orb bonuses

We don’t want siegewars

PvP is dead. When PAX only gets that many subscribers for a major tourney and the comments are from ppl who don’t play…its dead. When I step into the mists and am the ONLY person there b/c I’m waiting on a WvW queue….its dead.

If WvW was the focus we’d have Devs listening to us…….they are ignoring what WvW players are telling them and continuing to focus on a dead (yes you can’t prove otherwise) gametype.

thank you

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/members/SpehssMehreen-5897/showposts

Can anyone confirm this fella as Anet employee b/c just reading through his post history is pretty lulz

Hhmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I watch Starcraft 2 NASL tournaments but I only play SC2 on occasion.

I don’t understand statements like “pvp is dead” or “this game is dead”. As long as the servers are running this game is alive.

Honestly why is anyone playing this game if they think it is utter crap?

OMG u looked kewl until u realized SC2 has a huge following while sPvP does not.

Thank you for playing PvF with Jinks

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

Jinks.2057:

SpehssMehreen.5897:

Perception =/= Reality, go to the pvp forums and post this topic, Pvp is definetly not the focus, might have the “publicity” but not the focus, its been stated many times already, all game modes especially wvw are the focus.

and fyi, Pvp is not a “dead” game mode

No WvW is not the focus.

We don’t want orb bonuses

We don’t want siegewars

PvP is dead. When PAX only gets that many subscribers for a major tourney and the comments are from ppl who don’t play…its dead. When I step into the mists and am the ONLY person there b/c I’m waiting on a WvW queue….its dead.

If WvW was the focus we’d have Devs listening to us…….they are ignoring what WvW players are telling them and continuing to focus on a dead (yes you can’t prove otherwise) gametype.

thank you

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/members/SpehssMehreen-5897/showposts

Can anyone confirm this fella as Anet employee b/c just reading through his post history is pretty lulz

Hhmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I watch Starcraft 2 NASL tournaments but I only play SC2 on occasion.

I don’t understand statements like “pvp is dead” or “this game is dead”. As long as the servers are running this game is alive.

Honestly why is anyone playing this game if they think it is utter crap?

You must have never pressed the crossed swords icon on the upper left corner because if you did, you would have known that no one cares for PvP. The precious teams that Anet gave all their attention to have fled.

People are playing the game because it has a good foundation that everyone can love, it’s not a grind fest to level your toon, crafting is not impossible, has a great PvE side, a large following in WvW, and has potential to be a great game, but Anet does nothing to capitalize on it. The flaws in this game are able to be fixed, and when fixed, it could be a great game. That’s why we still play, why we’re in the forums, and keep at it.

imo this league and orb kitten is gonna really hurt wvw, your gonna have servers with more coverage cap everything, forcing smaller servers to have even less ppl in wvw. Now that everything is capped ,you would normally have small scales battles still(roamers) or even GvGs/Duels, and other community driven stuff that would make the matches a little less – boring , but now the Larger servers will have this buff making even thos battles tainted.

Again this isnt about GvG/dueling or anything like that, its just an example. I know leagues r short term, but i think the damage will be done and ppl will be over it.

And it keeps coming back to them trying to force us out of WvW and into Spvp, like that is the answer. Lets face it Spvp is small scale WvW where if you avoid combat and PVD you win

SykkoB.9465:

imo this league and orb kitten is gonna really hurt wvw, your gonna have servers with more coverage cap everything, forcing smaller servers to have even less ppl in wvw. Now that everything is capped ,you would normally have small scales battles still(roamers) or even GvGs/Duels, and other community driven stuff that would make the matches a little kitten ring , but now the Larger servers will have this buff making even thos battles tainted.

Again this isnt about GvG/dueling or anything like that, its just an example. I know leagues r short term, but i think the damage will be done and ppl will be over it.

And it keeps coming back to them trying to force us out of WvW and into Spvp, like that is the answer. Lets face it Spvp is small scale WvW where if you avoid combat and PVD you win

…and people don’t avoid player combat to go and capture points/kill the lord in sPvP to win?

In my opinion sPvP is quite bored.

FirstBlood.7359:

Rock – paper – scissors has a winner and loser, but cannot be considered a competitive game. Simply by chance one side wins the match. The outcome is not based on actual skill, there is no real competition. In the context of WvW coverage decides the winner of the match-up. Most WvW’ers on my server have to work on the next day, therefore the night coverage is low. During the night our opponents can accumuluate points without resistance. How can you call a gamemode that lacks opponents competitive?! Competitive games are built one the idea of equal numbers, equal starting positions, equal gear, … . WvW is the opposite of competitive.

I must have been on drugs when i saw rock paper scissors world championship on eurosports a few years ago. It was fun to watch thou. And i guess there is some sort of skill involved because you always try to find out what your opponent is doing next and try to find a pattern to predict his next action.
In the end WvW is as competitive as every other sport. If might be not a fair competition at most times but that doesn’t change the competitive aspect of the game. It just questions if the competition makes any sence for the low populated servers. And that’s why the small servers play most of the time for the fun and not for the competition.
However on our server kodash we can see what gvg guilds do to the server because they left us and we are now much weaker then we are a few months before. However that doesn’t stop us from having fun and our small scale guild groups still have their competition.

Seigfried.5938:

I don’t spvp because of the imbalance. if we were allowed more variety of builds, like we can in wvw, i would def do it.

actually with my mes i feel i have wayyyy more options in spvp then in wvw. in wvw im forced to either roam or be a kitten support veilbot. the balance around a 1v1 based gamemode hurts the mesmers and rangers badly as most of our mechanics are only dueling based and not viable in a zerg fight.spvp is ruining the fun foe me!

selan.8354:

Seigfried.5938:

I don’t spvp because of the imbalance. if we were allowed more variety of builds, like we can in wvw, i would def do it.

actually with my mes i feel i have wayyyy more options in spvp then in wvw. in wvw im forced to either roam or be a kitten support veilbot. the balance around a 1v1 based gamemode hurts the mesmers and rangers badly as most of our mechanics are only dueling based and not viable in a zerg fight.spvp is ruining the fun foe me!

Thieves have it worse off than mes/ranger in this regard imo…

Aberrant.6749:

selan.8354:

Seigfried.5938:

I don’t spvp because of the imbalance. if we were allowed more variety of builds, like we can in wvw, i would def do it.

actually with my mes i feel i have wayyyy more options in spvp then in wvw. in wvw im forced to either roam or be a kitten support veilbot. the balance around a 1v1 based gamemode hurts the mesmers and rangers badly as most of our mechanics are only dueling based and not viable in a zerg fight.spvp is ruining the fun foe me!

Thieves have it worse off than mes/ranger in this regard imo…

yep thieves are indeed forced to be gankers and killing dolys. at least u still see them in wvw.rangers are dissapearing. i think this wvw balance has to change quickly.
mesmers are only part of ergs due to veil/portal/tw and nullfield and thieves have to pick on stragelers, but it is dominated by warriors and necros atm….ugh this is boring

Aberrant.6749:

SykkoB.9465:

imo this league and orb kitten is gonna really hurt wvw, your gonna have servers with more coverage cap everything, forcing smaller servers to have even less ppl in wvw. Now that everything is capped ,you would normally have small scales battles still(roamers) or even GvGs/Duels, and other community driven stuff that would make the matches a little kitten ring , but now the Larger servers will have this buff making even thos battles tainted.

Again this isnt about GvG/dueling or anything like that, its just an example. I know leagues r short term, but i think the damage will be done and ppl will be over it.

And it keeps coming back to them trying to force us out of WvW and into Spvp, like that is the answer. Lets face it Spvp is small scale WvW where if you avoid combat and PVD you win

…and people don’t avoid player combat to go and capture points/kill the lord in sPvP to win?

Unlike sPvP you can do so much more than defend/attack points

Also there are ppl who enjoy smashing those blobs with a small amount of ppl ^^

Jinks.2057:

Not in sPvP.

Please give us the dev time and let sPvP get life support dev focus for once…..I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised.

You going to be like the other chumps and start accusing spvp? Sac propaganda get to you?

The populations for wvw and spvp are fairly similar, if there are around 18k players ranked in solo queue, then if all servers in the world had all BLs full capped on the map, thats 20k players. Obviously some servers get queue overflows but then other servers never get queues. And if you are going to argue about timezones so there are more players, I can easily argue that a lot of spvpers still dont solo queue (myself included even though I team queue).

What you want to realize is that the pvp population, both wvw and spvp, is an incredibly minority with respect to the pve population.

+1 to Jinks on this thread.

Jackie.1829:

Jinks.2057:

Not in sPvP.

Please give us the dev time and let sPvP get life support dev focus for once…..I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised.

You going to be like the other chumps and start accusing spvp? Sac propaganda get to you?

The populations for wvw and spvp are fairly similar

Stopped reading right there. Take this as an invite to come back down to reality.

ps. I’ll give ya a hint…..Devs have already hinted at WvW populations

WvW is the one thing that GW2 has above other games. Up and coming is Everquest Next, now this game has some big promises and some big ideas, if they come through with what they say, it may draw many away from GW2 PvE player base, WvW is the one thing that could keep GW2 going for some time. PvE gets old and stale quickly for some of us, and some of us bought GW2 for WvW mostly.

kelman.9451:

WvW is the one thing that GW2 has above other games. Up and coming is Everquest Next, now this game has some big promises and some big ideas, if they come through with what they say, it may draw many away from GW2 PvE player base, WvW is the one thing that could keep GW2 going for some time. PvE gets old and stale quickly for some of us, and some of us bought GW2 for WvW mostly.

Every post like this just makes me smile

kelman.9451:

WvW is the one thing that GW2 has above other games. Up and coming is Everquest Next, now this game has some big promises and some big ideas, if they come through with what they say, it may draw many away from GW2 PvE player base, WvW is the one thing that could keep GW2 going for some time. PvE gets old and stale quickly for some of us, and some of us bought GW2 for WvW mostly.

This. Exactly. Anet just refuses to accept that WvW has turned out to be the PvP that players want, not sPvP. It’s time to devote more resources and dev time to WvW.

Forget it OP. Anet will never take WvW seriously. Main reason for their kittened addiction with sPvP is as you mentioned, to make it as an eSport(like League of Legends). Thus, making them to get sponsorship(every eSport will have it) resulting in money. What do they gain from WvW? Nothing.

I’ve lost faith with Anet and I would like to call on every WvWers(especially GvGers) to just accept this fact and stop wasting your money on this game. If Anet going to break their manifesto then why bother spending any more dime on them.

Im not spending an extra cent on this game until they start catering to me.

In fact we all should do just this

Monsoon.2589:

I used to care now I don t anymore since Elder Scrolls Online is coming out soon.

I left wow for GW2 and now wvw is unplayable in T1 due to constant and map wide skill lag…its virtually unplayable now as servers purposefully use giant groups to slow the server to a crawl. I haven t spend money on gem cards for two months because Anet is not addressing the skill lag issue and won t until they do.

Spvp? roflmao

Move servers

T1 has no one but themselves to blame for the skill lag there

@OP: As a player who regularly plays all 3 aspects of the game, from one side I can understand where you are coming from.. On the other hand it seems I have to point out that your own argument can be easily turned around on you with regards to PvE community which far outnumbers both WvW and PvP communities combined…

Furthermore, I think that if there is enough support among the population for any mode, whether it is “dead” or not (in your humble opinion), ANet should work on that mode and try to improve it. Stating otherwise only reduces the weight of your complaints, regardless of how well founded they are.

Fact of the matter is that, like PvE crew, vast majority (I see this term thrown all around without any basis so might as well use it) of WvW players don’t visit forums, don’t know and/or don’t care about orb buffs, sPvP mechanic being introduced or pretty much anything as long as they get to follow that blue badge and kill some stuffs.

Now to the point:
Will the buffs make WvW even more imbalanced ? Quite probably.
Will the buffs encourage de-zerging and de-melee-training ? Maybe, if the server with lower coverage can get organized enough… highly doubtful tho, simply because of the nature of the game and players.
Does any of this have to do anything with sPvP resources ? Not at all, in fact I have no idea why anyone would draw parallel between introduction of new WvW mechanic and funding for a completely different game mode..

Jinks.2057:

T1 has no one but themselves to blame for the skill lag there

T1 has themselves to blame? Are you kittening kidding me? WvW favours big blobs.

It’s GAME DESIGN. If it weren’t more powerful people wouldn’t do it.

Joni.6830:

Jinks.2057:

T1 has no one but themselves to blame for the skill lag there

T1 has themselves to blame? Are you kittening kidding me? WvW favours big blobs.

It’s GAME DESIGN. If it weren’t more powerful people wouldn’t do it.

No! T1 servers have themselves to blame simply because they can go to t2/3 and fill those servers up for more fair tier match, but instead they bandwagon to t1 in order to get the full benefit of WvW(karma train/WxP) and the future rewards(League winners). However, they are a complete joke. Why? Everyone knows WvW rewards are complete kitten, you might as well just PvE to get a better “rewards”.

Jinks.2057:

Honestly its about allowing your 5man roaming game to flourish in WvW.

What allows my 5man roaming group to flourish is not having a 20+ guildblob arrive at every decent fight (friend or enemy).

This is pretty much a thinly veiled GvG thread once again, if people want to do 20v20 TDM why not go to a game that already has it instead of trying to change every other game to become it. If ANet want eSports – success or not – that’s their choice as the developers of the product. Back before games started to have patches no one would ever buy one and then demand it be changed, if they didn’t like what it was at launch they left. The game has been known to be about sieges since long before it launched but still people bought it, and proceeded to whine.

Oh look, eSports: http://www.esl.eu/eu/guildwars2/

The WvW community know ANet poured the majority of their resources into SPvP. Every “State of the Game” had only SPvP people on there to dictate how all classes should be. “Why don’t you ask to appear on up coming State of the Game?” No WvW players will make it on simply because they pick and choose who they will allow on. Judging by the Pax experience, where they dodged all questions, aka red herring, related to WvW, it would still be pointless if a brave WvW soul made it on. Speaking of Pax, their stream had even less viewers than AGG’s, RG’s, and BT’s (was a big guild but majority quit) streams. Their videos have even more viewers also. If the people who wanted to SPvP in an eSport sense, they would go DOTA or LoL because they structure there is better and more fun.

I watched the Pax stream and it was so boring. People avoided each other the majority of the time to capture points to win. What happened to player vs. player? I thought pvp was about one person/team trying to beat the crap out of another through combat/skills.

We all agree that PvE population is much bigger than WvW or SPvP. The question here is, how did it get that big? I can guarantee at least 40% of the current PvE population came from WvW. They all left the WvW scene due to lack of developments and balance. Big scale fight was what drew players from all sort of game to GW2 because it was the only game that offered it. That was WvW. If people wanted to SPvP they would go LoL or DOTA, I know I would. If they wanted PvE they would go play Hello Kitty Online (hehe).

The whole point of the OP was stop catering to SPvP because that’s not where the majority of your active players are. We also don’t want our classes’ traits and skills in WvW or PvE to be dictated by what the SPvP minority wants. There are three game modes to this game so it’s very ignorant and ridiculous to have a single structure.

xTiMeBoMBx.2863:

The WvW community know ANet poured the majority of their resources into SPvP. Every “State of the Game” had only SPvP people on there to dictate how all classes should be. “Why don’t you ask to appear on up coming State of the Game?” No WvW players will make it on simply because they pick and choose who they will allow on. Judging by the Pax experience, where they dodged all questions, aka red herring, related to WvW, it would still be pointless if a brave WvW soul made it on. Speaking of Pax, their stream had even less viewers than AGG’s, RG’s, and BT’s (was a big guild but majority quit) streams. Their videos have even more viewers also. If the people who wanted to SPvP in an eSport sense, they would go DOTA or LoL because they structure there is better and more fun.

I watched the Pax stream and it was so boring. People avoided each other the majority of the time to capture points to win. What happened to player vs. player? I thought pvp was about one person/team trying to beat the crap out of another through combat/skills.

We all agree that PvE population is much bigger than WvW or SPvP. The question here is, how did it get that big? I can guarantee at least 40% of the current PvE population came from WvW. They all left the WvW scene due to lack of developments and balance. Big scale fight was what drew players from all sort of game to GW2 because it was the only game that offered it. That was WvW. If people wanted to SPvP they would go LoL or DOTA, I know I would. If they wanted PvE they would go play Hello Kitty Online (hehe).

The whole point of the OP was stop catering to SPvP because that’s not where the majority of your active players are. We also don’t want our classes’ traits and skills in WvW or PvE to be dictated by what the SPvP minority wants. There are three game modes to this game so it’s very ignorant and ridiculous to have a single structure.

well said. i agree 100 percent with u. im tired of not getting buffs for my wvw mesmer, because it does well in spvp. now im stuck as a veilbot or a roamer.

anet make a balance patch for wvw only. have wvw players(guildleaders/or commanders that play different classes be on the stream and talk about balance). look at this terrible meta!

xTiMeBoMBx.2863:

The WvW community know ANet poured the majority of their resources into SPvP. Every “State of the Game” had only SPvP people on there to dictate how all classes should be. “Why don’t you ask to appear on up coming State of the Game?” No WvW players will make it on simply because they pick and choose who they will allow on.

WvW is not a competitive part of the game. If you want to talk about balance you need all participants to be on equal footing. WvW with its upscaling, lack of equipment restrictions, uneven teams, different coverages etc. has no such thing as balance… It’s as simple as that, and I really don’t understand why that is so hard to grasp…
Or would you rather that devs talk in SotG how they are removing stability, retaliation and water fields and nerfing all control skills and AoE’s to the ground ?

xTiMeBoMBx.2863:

We all agree that PvE population is much bigger than WvW or SPvP. The question here is, how did it get that big? I can guarantee at least 40% of the current PvE population came from WvW. They all left the WvW scene due to lack of developments and balance. Big scale fight was what drew players from all sort of game to GW2 because it was the only game that offered it. That was WvW. If people wanted to SPvP they would go LoL or DOTA, I know I would. If they wanted PvE they would go play Hello Kitty Online (hehe).

I like throwing random numbers as well, so I’ll guarantee that 107% of the PvE population came from PvP… The sad truth is that my statement sounds less ridiculous then yours since GW2 was actually advertized as a game with new and original combat system that allowed people to jump right into the eSports scene. In fact the group of people I bought the game with did so specifically for the sPvP.

But where the population came from (and I think PvE is played by the people who actually like to play PvE, but that’s just me) doesn’t really matter… What does matter is that going by the faulty (selfish, maybe even childish ?) logic that WvW is more popular then PvP therefore PvP shouldn’t be supported anymore will most definitely backfire once PvE guys hear about it… After all, why invest resources into unbalanced and “dead” mess that is WvW when you could throw money at new cinematics, revamped dungeons, better story, more legendaries and shiny particles.

selan.8354:

well said. i agree 100 percent with u. im tired of not getting buffs for my wvw mesmer, because it does well in spvp. now im stuck as a veilbot or a roamer.

What ? Everyone knows WvW has tons of more build choices compared to PvP h/erp d\erp.

EDIT: I actually thought about deleting my replies on this topic since I’m thinking more and more about how ridiculous it is, but then I thought that maybe one of the dev team is actually reading, so I might as well leave them, just in case…

Monsoon.2589:

Jinks.2057:

Move servers

T1 has no one but themselves to blame for the skill lag there

NO!

I started this game on Blackgate a year ago and now I am proud of my server and the fact that it is number 1. The skill lag is 100% due to Anet’s hardware unable to handle the limit of players Anet themselves has set.

This is not a reason for moving to another server which means losing my friends, guilds etc… simply because Anet is not willing to at least upgrade their top servers. Then what? lets say that we move down 3 servers and then the same thing happens because that server is then saturated in wvw then what?

It is not only T1 that has skill lag and recommending to move servers when the problem lies in Anet’s hardware is not a solution whatsoever

The servers are likely top end already.

They did once lower the caps to try reduce lag, the result was queues and a lot of player complaining – people weren’t willing to move just because of queue’s. They put the cap back up, and players (different or same doesn’t matter) complain about lag.

It’s the same in every game, there is lag when there is big fights, and yet in every game there is zergs – whether the game benefits them or not (the key reason is safety in numbers, only way to remove that is direct PUNISHMENT of zergs but that would just create other problems). Players need to understand you cannot have mass-scale pvp without mass-scale lag, or at least not with mass-scale AoE involved.

xTiMeBoMBx.2863:

[…]

We all agree that PvE population is much bigger than WvW or SPvP. The question here is, how did it get that big? I can guarantee at least 40% of the current PvE population came from WvW. They all left the WvW scene due to lack of developments and balance. Big scale fight was what drew players from all sort of game to GW2 because it was the only game that offered it. That was WvW. If people wanted to SPvP they would go LoL or DOTA, I know I would. If they wanted PvE they would go play Hello Kitty Online (hehe).

[…]

I can remember pre-launch and even afterwards when WvW was the most dynamic part of the game.

Forum posters had to say they were PvE’ers when asking for advice, because it was just assumed everyone was here for the WvW. WvW’ers were by far too the most ahead in terms of theory-crafting and understanding the game.

What happened?

The penny dropped. It became apparent WvW was designed (either intentionally or through poor execution) as an Arena for zergs. Culling was a major, major issue. Other fundamental game designs like the downed state and the AoE limit reduced skilled play, and made things frustrating.

In my opinion the real drop-off happened about late spring. The WvW forums went totally south, with most of the smart, theory-crafters disappearing, leaving mostly feeble posters. I can only assume it was tied to the AC buff, that gutted any PvP or GvG competition in objective-taking (the central focus of the game). Randomized match-ups were just another nail in that particular coffin.

The Ascended bait-and-switch had its effect too. Most MMO PvP does have some kind of gear grind, and it would have been fine if GW2 had that too. If it had launched with it. But doing a 180 two months in just makes your playerbase not trust you. This just compounded the rash of unfulfilled promises in WvW. (People waiting for WXP were completely underwhelmed when it was introduced).

Interesting point too about driving people to PvE. Guilds have to keep their people active, or else they fall apart. Many, many have in GW2. But for WvW’ers there aren’t many options until next year. So you do some WvW, and go through the motions in other parts of the game until you can jump ship.

Neandramathal.9536:

The servers are likely top end already.

They did once lower the caps to try reduce lag, the result was queues and a lot of player complaining – people weren’t willing to move just because of queue’s. They put the cap back up, and players (different or same doesn’t matter) complain about lag.

It’s the same in every game, there is lag when there is big fights, and yet in every game there is zergs – whether the game benefits them or not (the key reason is safety in numbers, only way to remove that is direct PUNISHMENT of zergs but that would just create other problems). Players need to understand you cannot have mass-scale pvp without mass-scale lag, or at least not with mass-scale AoE involved.

You think servers are unable to get upgraded again because they are already top end? Do you think all MMORPG infrastructure is just “put some servers up – done”? The company has to DEVELOP the relevant infrastructure solutions to support their game!

Did you play Daoc or Warhammer? Daoc was in bloody 2001. 2001. This was when consumer CPUs were below 1GHz. Daoc did NOT have skill lag like Guild Wars 2 WvW has.

There was general normal lag in Daoc obviously, remember 2001 where internet connection speeds were a fraction of today’s. But there was not systematic skill lag that made playing your character impossible in large fights. Neither did Warhammer suffer from this systemic lag issue.

Please don’t tell me Arena.net is doing everything they can. They are not. Skill lag is solvable because other companies were able to have such large scale WvW (RvRvR) over 10 years ago.

GW2 fights may be more taxing on servers than DaoC fights, but please don’t tell me 12 years of hardware/software evolution aren’t enough to support dodging. That’s laughable.

@Freeelancer.2860

Yeh, if you had followed this WvW forum from the start of the game, even further, in beta, you would know that suggestions were made in regards to population imbalances. How they have no tools to measure the amount of WvW population specifically. We suggested ideas such as splitting the time zones, 2 different battles where scores were separated, adjusting the scores off hours of servers, and buffs that actually benefit outmanned server while in battle. We suggested hard cap per map at around 30-ish for each sides so they wouldn’t even need a queue system or stress out the server to the point where you can’t use skills. We wanted zergs to end! It’s been more than a year and the zerg has only gotten bigger.

You seem to be part of the smallest population in this game, SPvP. How can i make that claim? Well I saw the viewer count during Pax, which was recent, and it was not impressive. It was less than 500 during the stream. An event at Pax must have cost at least 100k! However, everything they change to classes that people play in WvW or PvE were made around you, SPvP! How would you like it if they did the reverse?

Joni.6830:

Neandramathal.9536:

The servers are likely top end already.

They did once lower the caps to try reduce lag, the result was queues and a lot of player complaining – people weren’t willing to move just because of queue’s. They put the cap back up, and players (different or same doesn’t matter) complain about lag.

It’s the same in every game, there is lag when there is big fights, and yet in every game there is zergs – whether the game benefits them or not (the key reason is safety in numbers, only way to remove that is direct PUNISHMENT of zergs but that would just create other problems). Players need to understand you cannot have mass-scale pvp without mass-scale lag, or at least not with mass-scale AoE involved.

You think servers are unable to get upgraded again because they are already top end? Do you think all MMORPG infrastructure is just “put some servers up – done”? The company has to DEVELOP the relevant infrastructure solutions to support their game!

Did you play Daoc or Warhammer? Daoc was in bloody 2001. 2001. This was when consumer CPUs were below 1GHz. Daoc did NOT have skill lag like Guild Wars 2 WvW has.

There was general normal lag in Daoc obviously, remember 2001 where internet connection speeds were a fraction of today’s. But there was not systematic skill lag that made playing your character impossible in large fights. Neither did Warhammer suffer from this systemic lag issue.

Please don’t tell me Arena.net is doing everything they can. They are not. Skill lag is solvable because other companies were able to have such large scale WvW (RvRvR) over 10 years ago.

GW2 fights may be more taxing on servers than DaoC fights, but please don’t tell me 12 years of hardware/software evolution aren’t enough to support dodging. That’s laughable.

Does any game major game company use Amazon’s Elastic Cloud Computing? That’s possibly a viable solution.

Joni.6830:

Neandramathal.9536:

The servers are likely top end already.

They did once lower the caps to try reduce lag, the result was queues and a lot of player complaining – people weren’t willing to move just because of queue’s. They put the cap back up, and players (different or same doesn’t matter) complain about lag.

It’s the same in every game, there is lag when there is big fights, and yet in every game there is zergs – whether the game benefits them or not (the key reason is safety in numbers, only way to remove that is direct PUNISHMENT of zergs but that would just create other problems). Players need to understand you cannot have mass-scale pvp without mass-scale lag, or at least not with mass-scale AoE involved.

You think servers are unable to get upgraded again because they are already top end? Do you think all MMORPG infrastructure is just “put some servers up – done”? The company has to DEVELOP the relevant infrastructure solutions to support their game!

Did you play Daoc or Warhammer? Daoc was in bloody 2001. 2001. This was when consumer CPUs were below 1GHz. Daoc did NOT have skill lag like Guild Wars 2 WvW has.

There was general normal lag in Daoc obviously, remember 2001 where internet connection speeds were a fraction of today’s. But there was not systematic skill lag that made playing your character impossible in large fights. Neither did Warhammer suffer from this systemic lag issue.

Please don’t tell me Arena.net is doing everything they can. They are not. Skill lag is solvable because other companies were able to have such large scale WvW (RvRvR) over 10 years ago.

GW2 fights may be more taxing on servers than DaoC fights, but please don’t tell me 12 years of hardware/software evolution aren’t enough to support dodging. That’s laughable.

I didn’t play DaoC, but I played warhammer, and I remember going to defend a keep only to die and wonder why, then find 50 people fade in around me at the gate.

Daoc and Warhammer – as every world pvp game – had the same problems as GW2. For example, Warhammer had the culling problem with players disappearing in large battles. Mythic fixed it after several months. During fortress and city raids the lag was insane. Sometimes the server crashed.

There will be no fix for skill lag. The only solution is to discourage blobbing and spread players over the maps.

Having played both DaoC and Warhammer, I want to point out some people have poor memories, both games had culling and lag, sometimes both at the same time, daoc even had load lag and you could use that as an indicator of where the zerg was hehe.

Buzzcrave.6197:

Joni.6830:

Jinks.2057:

T1 has no one but themselves to blame for the skill lag there

T1 has themselves to blame? Are you kittening kidding me? WvW favours big blobs.

It’s GAME DESIGN. If it weren’t more powerful people wouldn’t do it.

No! T1 servers have themselves to blame simply because they can go to t2/3 and fill those servers up for more fair tier match, but instead they bandwagon to t1 in order to get the full benefit of WvW(karma train/WxP) and the future rewards(League winners). However, they are a complete joke. Why? Everyone knows WvW rewards are complete kitten, you might as well just PvE to get a better “rewards”.

this is such a silly argument. SO blame t1 for anet failing to test there servers/engine properly? if the servers cant handle the QUE sizes they have now, then its anet fault, and they need to adjust the que to a cap size there dam engines/servers can handle.

the lag in this game is not just a t1 problem, it happens in all tiers. I also get that the players have the fault in stacking, but that again is not just a t1 problem, t2 is far more stacked then t3 and t3 from t4.

But we weren’t talking about culling and load lag. Both of that exists (existed) in GW2. Well now you have a slider. That’s all acceptable to me.

We were talking about SKILL lag. Lag that makes you completely unable to play your character at all. That did not happen in DaoC and WAR like it does in GW2.

GW2 lag is systemic. You can be in a large fight and not be able to do anything. Then 2 minutes later you’re outside and suddenly your abilities work normally again.

That’s not just normal lag or latency. That means the servers are just completely unable to ever process large fights. No matter the circumstances.

They don’t cater to WvW because the truth of the matter is they put all thier money into sPvP / PvE and their Technology cannot handle WvW…

It’s a sad fact.

Those chose wrong, w/o doing their homework. They didn’t even know what they had, they still don’t… they’re soo kitten on promoting Living World and eSport, that they can’t see what they have in front of them…

Did you know that some people who played DAOC never cancelled thier monthly subscription until it was done for them, even though they stopped playing 10+yrs ago?

Now that’s customer loyalty..

Anet will ~never~ come close to having that.

Joni.6830:

We were talking about SKILL lag. Lag that makes you completely unable to play your character at all. That did not happen in DaoC and WAR like it does in GW2.

You must have been absent at major sieges in WAR, kitten brightwizard death fields that lagged everyone into inactivity till death.

Vena.8436:

Joni.6830:

We were talking about SKILL lag. Lag that makes you completely unable to play your character at all. That did not happen in DaoC and WAR like it does in GW2.

You must have been absent at major sieges in WAR, kitten brightwizard death fields that lagged everyone into inactivity till death.

Or that chosen/knight aura that did damage each tick.. and would do nothing for 30 seconds only to suddenly apply all the ticks in 1 go, instagibbing everyone within 150ft.

Or in daoc when it was a thing to have everyone use aoe buffs during a relic raid to crash the server, yeah no skill lag but if you flooded the server with to much to process it just crashed.

not to justify skill lag, its infuriating and I want it to go away, but lets not use old games that also had issues as a bench mark. I want it to be better then what we had and right now its not, its just different.