Guild Wars 2

So can we have better walls that doesnt block your arrows instead?

Now i have to stand on the edge to even hit someone, but this will get you pulled from it.
Also more walls need a small below wall so people wont hide in the blind spot. (we see this on some walls)

look my great paint skills:

Alpine hills and bay walls had edges that prevented you from falling off.

Gunner Morton.8340:

Alpine hills and bay walls had edges that prevented you from falling off.

I even remember Devs saying they would improve the walls even more.. but than somehow they made it even worse in the desert maps.. Anet.. why?

It is easy to defend now – jeez. Arrow carts that don’t have to be able to see to hit people?

Shield Generators, chilling fog, NPC’s who are buffed, Walls that are harder to knock down(more HP) and T3 gates you can’t man mode, and I could go on.

How easy do you want it to defend? It is harder to actually take a keep now.

Y’all have no idea what y’all are talking about.

I would like to see the walls fixed up, but I’d also like to see AC’s removed entirely.

Dusty Moon.4382:

It is easy to defend now – jeez. Arrow carts that don’t have to be able to see to hit people?

Shield Generators, chilling fog, NPC’s who are buffed, Walls that are harder to knock down(more HP) and T3 gates you can’t man mode, and I could go on.

How easy do you want it to defend? It is harder to actually take a keep now.

Y’all have no idea what y’all are talking about.

well i want to be effective even without siege..
right now you either getting pulled or you have to completely ignore using your own skills because they dont hit.

so in the end they force us to use siege equipments right now. does that sounds good for you? that your longbow/range stuff is just completely trash because a design fail?

The walls need to be thicker. Player weapon AoEs can just engulf the whole depth of the wall, making it a death trap and one of the reasons why I defend far less than I used to. It’s especially bad with the power creep.

The issue is the power creep.

Most places are fairly easy to defend. There are a few locations where catas can hit fire keeps outer wall with virtual impunity but even if attackers get inside the inner wall and gates will stop them if there are enough defenders.

A properly buffed and defended keep is almost impossible to take.

The keeps are buffed enough – no need to buff them any more. As I said, when keeps go T3, the only way to get in them is through the walls and that takes many superior catas or trebs to do as gates are impossible.

We have been talking about all the ‘Tactivators’ which make keeps almost impossible to take and now you want to make even easier to defend? Sorry – NO.

Well my personal preference, which will never happen because it would require a major game rework, is that defending using your actual skills were more effective because the ground is better defensive so actually fight while defending instead of spamming siege.

Stability, dodge, block, or just dont stay in one place the whole time? Putting in something like that to prevent pulls complete negates proper strategic counterplay and gives all advantage to defenders. Why should defenders be able to mindlessly stand around and hit attacking players and siege without fear of getting pulled off?

X T D.6458:

Stability, dodge, block, or just dont stay in one place the whole time? Putting in something like that to prevent pulls complete negates proper strategic counterplay and gives all advantage to defenders. Why should defenders be able to mindlessly stand around and hit attacking players and siege without fear of getting pulled off?

Why should eles be able to mindlessly stand around and clear all siege from the walls? Being able to clear siege without counter siege negates proper strategic counterplay and gives all the advantage to the attacker.

bloodletting wolf.2837:

X T D.6458:

Stability, dodge, block, or just dont stay in one place the whole time? Putting in something like that to prevent pulls complete negates proper strategic counterplay and gives all advantage to defenders. Why should defenders be able to mindlessly stand around and hit attacking players and siege without fear of getting pulled off?

Why should eles be able to mindlessly stand around and clear all siege from the walls? Being able to clear siege without counter siege negates proper strategic counterplay and gives all the advantage to the attacker.

What? You do understand what AoE skills are right? You do know players can hit siege with their own skills right?

X T D.6458:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

X T D.6458:

Stability, dodge, block, or just dont stay in one place the whole time? Putting in something like that to prevent pulls complete negates proper strategic counterplay and gives all advantage to defenders. Why should defenders be able to mindlessly stand around and hit attacking players and siege without fear of getting pulled off?

Why should eles be able to mindlessly stand around and clear all siege from the walls? Being able to clear siege without counter siege negates proper strategic counterplay and gives all the advantage to the attacker.

What? You do understand what AoE skills are right? You do know players can hit siege with their own skills right?

It is far too easy for attackers to clear wall siege with player skills. Fine your zerg killed my siege with eles. Ok I guess I’ll go AoE them from the wall. Sorry I have to jump up on the ledge so I can get yanked into the attackers. So pretty much my only option is siege disablers.

I never understood the complaints against siege unless it’s open field or shield generators.

bloodletting wolf.2837:

X T D.6458:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

X T D.6458:

Stability, dodge, block, or just dont stay in one place the whole time? Putting in something like that to prevent pulls complete negates proper strategic counterplay and gives all advantage to defenders. Why should defenders be able to mindlessly stand around and hit attacking players and siege without fear of getting pulled off?

Why should eles be able to mindlessly stand around and clear all siege from the walls? Being able to clear siege without counter siege negates proper strategic counterplay and gives all the advantage to the attacker.

What? You do understand what AoE skills are right? You do know players can hit siege with their own skills right?

It is far too easy for attackers to clear wall siege with player skills. Fine your zerg killed my siege with eles. Ok I guess I’ll go AoE them from the wall. Sorry I have to jump up on the ledge so I can get yanked into the attackers. So pretty much my only option is siege disablers.

I never understood the complaints against siege unless it’s open field or shield generators.

So block, dodge, stability, hit and runs, better siege placements. I mean I do this all the time rather successfully, I just dont stand there the whole time auto attacking giving them a chance hit me. Sometimes it comes down to smarter more patient play on our end. Are you going to succeed everytime, ofc not but that doesnt mean we cant play smarter.

Since the June specialisation update, as a zerker staff ele you can completely clear a wall of players and siege with a single Meteor shower. Large AoE radius and very high damage (7-8.5K meteors – more than pre-ferocity) for almost 10 seconds. The random nature of the meteor landing and long cast time are superfluous now that each meteor hits so hard. It used to be a strong large AoE radius denial skill that put pressure on people defending (was balanced) but now, it just destroys everything and you can easily down low-medium health pool classes with just 2-3 meteors.

When/if Anet ever get around to addressing damage inflation in WvW, then it will be substantially easier to defend in a traditional way, that is to say, without tactivator nonsense and other associated buffs that make sieges tedious.

it’s not just a wall problem. Sometime I can’t ever hit people out in the open with ranged attacks, they get called “obstructed” and there is nothing around, maybe a very small tree stump at the most, it’s sort of a pain. that or its lag, and I’m not or they are not where I think they are.

X T D.6458:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

X T D.6458:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

X T D.6458:

Stability, dodge, block, or just dont stay in one place the whole time? Putting in something like that to prevent pulls complete negates proper strategic counterplay and gives all advantage to defenders. Why should defenders be able to mindlessly stand around and hit attacking players and siege without fear of getting pulled off?

Why should eles be able to mindlessly stand around and clear all siege from the walls? Being able to clear siege without counter siege negates proper strategic counterplay and gives all the advantage to the attacker.

What? You do understand what AoE skills are right? You do know players can hit siege with their own skills right?

It is far too easy for attackers to clear wall siege with player skills. Fine your zerg killed my siege with eles. Ok I guess I’ll go AoE them from the wall. Sorry I have to jump up on the ledge so I can get yanked into the attackers. So pretty much my only option is siege disablers.

I never understood the complaints against siege unless it’s open field or shield generators.

So block, dodge, stability, hit and runs, better siege placements. I mean I do this all the time rather successfully, I just dont stand there the whole time auto attacking giving them a chance hit me. Sometimes it comes down to smarter more patient play on our end. Are you going to succeed everytime, ofc not but that doesnt mean we cant play smarter.

I’m not asking to stand there auto attacking but I would like to be able to toss my grenades over the 6 inch lip at my feet. Why should an ele be able to hit the back of my wall if I can’t drop my aoe’s at the base.

Uh.. Yeah. Thing is, this is 2016.

Has anyone told you how adorable it is that you still think there’s a point in defending something on the DBL?

I think someone needs to teach people how to place siege on walls so it doesnt get hit

Ele meteor shower is the main culprit. Not only they do a very high amount of damage but covers the whole area + a bit further. Either allow the ranged AoE skills to NOT hit outside a certain radius over the wall or drastically increase walls’ width. I wouldn’t suggest reducing meteor shower radius simply because it’ll greatly affect PvE and eles who play as a backline in ZvZ fights.

The main problem with walls is how targeting and AoE fields work.
e.g.
A person attacking a wall can always cast an AoE on the edge of the wall above and the AoE circle will extend to the battlement above (= Meter Shower / Necro Well problem).
The person on the wall, casting the same AoE skill will cover the side of the wall (not extruding out to hit any attackers standing close to the wall) with his semi-circle not on top of the wall.
Therefore the AoE fields will always benefit the one at the bottom. On top of that bias, the person on top is also the one not being able to get a line of sight at the attacker below, making standing right next to the wall the safest spot for the attacker (contradicting historical & logical aspects).
Since non of the above problems will ever be solved, the only way to address the problem is to give people on top “pulsing benefits” and attackers at the base some sort of de-buff.

Some ideas could be:
>> apply Aegis to defenders every 10 seconds & cleanse one condition every 10 sec.
This would allow being at the rim of the wall with less danger of being pulled off or condi bombed.
>> the blind spot at the base of the wall (360 range perhaps?) could be a field that applies cripple for 10 sec and rips a boon every 10 sec. Forcing attackes to be either a slower, more vulnerable target in their “comfort zone” or to actively protect themselves (cleansing, stability etc.)

its pretty ridiculous. walking up to a wall edge is a death sentence, cuz if you dont get pulled you will get bursted down in a few secs by random aoes.

would be really nice if this wasnt the case. defenders need not only incentives but actual mechanics that work in their favor.

Lol, is this thread for real? Walls are fine, stability exists as a thing in the game, as does reflect and block. If you’re not running any of those when you run up to an edge in WvW you probably need to re-evaluate your build and/or the choices that brought you there.

/thread.

Stand The Wall.6987:

its pretty ridiculous. walking up to a wall edge is a death sentence, cuz if you dont get pulled you will get bursted down in a few secs by random aoes.

would be really nice if this wasnt the case. defenders need not only incentives but actual mechanics that work in their favor.

I’m all for changes to the wall so you can fight back without being pulled off easily but I’m going to disagree with getting burst down. I don’t know about you but when there are red circles I press dodge.

Stand The Wall.6987:

its pretty ridiculous. walking up to a wall edge is a death sentence, cuz if you dont get pulled you will get bursted down in a few secs by random aoes.

would be really nice if this wasnt the case. defenders need not only incentives but actual mechanics that work in their favor.

What is ridiculous about it? Should attackers just politely stand there and let defenders attack them? Its just a ridiculous argument to make, if something doesn’t work for you, use better strategy. If you are in an exposed position do you honestly expect enemies not to use skills to attack you? What game mode are you playing exactly?

whats ridiculous about it is its impossible to attack the enemy as a defender. you are forced into siege to quell the enemy. if you can pull off 1500 range and spend 75% of the time kiting great, but anything short of that is likely to get caught. do you disagree? i would love to hear your response.

Stand The Wall.6987:

whats ridiculous about it is its impossible to attack the enemy as a defender. you are forced into siege to quell the enemy. if you can pull off 1500 range and spend 75% of the time kiting great, but anything short of that is likely to get caught. do you disagree? i would love to hear your response.

Yes I do disagree, you have people here basically complaining they cant just attack people w/o any consequences to themselves, its absolutely ridiculous. As if its not bad enough how HoT threw off the entire balance between defending and attacking in favor of defending with all the garbage gimmicks they added and siege buffs. And here you are asking why it cant be made easier to attack an enemy so they cant attack you, what nonsense is this, what game mode are you people playing???

Sometimes I get pulled, nuked, or trip, but I don’t go around saying, geez I wish the walls were changed so I can just freely attack an enemy without them being able to do anything back…

X T D.6458:

Stand The Wall.6987:

whats ridiculous about it is its impossible to attack the enemy as a defender. you are forced into siege to quell the enemy. if you can pull off 1500 range and spend 75% of the time kiting great, but anything short of that is likely to get caught. do you disagree? i would love to hear your response.

Yes I do disagree, you have people here basically complaining they cant just attack people w/o any consequences to themselves, its absolutely ridiculous. As if its not bad enough how HoT threw off the entire balance between defending and attacking in favor of defending with all the garbage gimmicks they added and siege buffs. And here you are asking why it cant be made easier to attack an enemy so they cant attack you, what nonsense is this, what game mode are you people playing???

Sometimes I get pulled, nuked, or trip, but I don’t go around saying, geez I wish the walls were changed so I can just freely attack an enemy without them being able to do anything back…

Who said anything about attacking without consequences?

Stand The Wall.6987:

whats ridiculous about it is its impossible to attack the enemy as a defender. you are forced into siege to quell the enemy. if you can pull off 1500 range and spend 75% of the time kiting great, but anything short of that is likely to get caught. do you disagree? i would love to hear your response.

WvW walls are there as a secondary means to breach an objective. The more upgraded they are, the longer it will take to breach, which means that defenders have longer to assemble the troops inside so that PvP between the two forces can happen. Sometimes the defending force will push outside, sometimes they will try to hold inside.

Standing on the wall and shooting outside doesnt really have anything to do with it. Its possible yes, but its not the purpose of the walls. They could remove the ability to even get up to the walls and they would still function the same.

TL;DR “Improving” the walls is pointless. Nothing is gained. The higher more “defensible” DBL walls proves this. They are kitten compared to regular old alpine/EB walls.

gennyt.3428:

The walls need to be thicker. Player weapon AoEs can just engulf the whole depth of the wall, making it a death trap and one of the reasons why I defend far less than I used to. It’s especially bad with the power creep.

Exactly. I’ve been saying this for ages any time defense threads come up.

Since OP did a nice job with paint, I thought I’d make my own example of how wall thickness should look.

How it should be on the left and how it is on the right. As you can see AOE’s represented by the red circle can cover almost the entire wall. Where as on the left it only covers half of it.

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Stand The Wall.6987:

its pretty ridiculous. walking up to a wall edge is a death sentence, cuz if you dont get pulled you will get bursted down in a few secs by random aoes.

would be really nice if this wasnt the case. defenders need not only incentives but actual mechanics that work in their favor.

What is ridiculous about it? Should attackers just politely stand there and let defenders attack them? Its just a ridiculous argument to make, if something doesn’t work for you, use better strategy. If you are in an exposed position do you honestly expect enemies not to use skills to attack you? What game mode are you playing exactly?

Lmfao, you and anyone else that think this isn’t an issue are just the karma farming tools that can’t peel through a gate fast enough.

Attackers have the advantage of resources and time. Defenders have nothing but what they’ve pre-built and back up defenders if there are enough people on the map/able to come to their aid.

If walls were made thicker or if AOE’s were changed or what ever solution were put in to place, it would not make attacking any more difficult. Find a hill, build a ballista, use a trebuchet, etc. Once that structure is drained of supplies or the defenders inside don’t have blueprints, there’s nothing more they can do to prevent the attackers from pushing through.

That’s the difference between attacker and defender. Defender can turtle all they want and hug all the siege they want but if the attackers are patient and smart, they can either kill all the siege with properly placed counter siege or they can continue to pressure the structure until there are no more supplies to sustain it.

Yes it takes time but why is that a problem? Some of the best fights are had trying to capture something from a defending onslaught. If you want fast karma and XP go to EOTM or develop some patience for actual strategy.

EDIT: Also on the note of “defending being made easy” as you’ve been saying about post HoT, so what? PPT doesn’t matter anymore right? That’s what everyone’s always saying? Then why does it matter if things are hard to take or not?

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

gennyt.3428:

The walls need to be thicker. Player weapon AoEs can just engulf the whole depth of the wall, making it a death trap and one of the reasons why I defend far less than I used to. It’s especially bad with the power creep.

Exactly. I’ve been saying this for ages any time defense threads come up.

Since OP did a nice job with paint, I thought I’d make my own example of how wall thickness should look.

How it should be on the left and how it is on the right. As you can see AOE’s represented by the red circle can cover almost the entire wall. Where as on the left it only covers half of it.

As a defender it would sure be nice but as an attacker it would be terribly boring.

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SpellOfIniquity.1780:

X T D.6458:

Stand The Wall.6987:

its pretty ridiculous. walking up to a wall edge is a death sentence, cuz if you dont get pulled you will get bursted down in a few secs by random aoes.

would be really nice if this wasnt the case. defenders need not only incentives but actual mechanics that work in their favor.

What is ridiculous about it? Should attackers just politely stand there and let defenders attack them? Its just a ridiculous argument to make, if something doesn’t work for you, use better strategy. If you are in an exposed position do you honestly expect enemies not to use skills to attack you? What game mode are you playing exactly?

Lmfao, you and anyone else that think this isn’t an issue are just the karma farming tools that can’t peel through a gate fast enough.

Attackers have the advantage of resources and time. Defenders have nothing but what they’ve pre-built and back up defenders if there are enough people on the map/able to come to their aid.

If walls were made thicker or if AOE’s were changed or what ever solution were put in to place, it would not make attacking any more difficult. Find a hill, build a ballista, use a trebuchet, etc. Once that structure is drained of supplies or the defenders inside don’t have blueprints, there’s nothing more they can do to prevent the attackers from pushing through.

That’s the difference between attacker and defender. Defender can turtle all they want and hug all the siege they want but if the attackers are patient and smart, they can either kill all the siege with properly placed counter siege or they can continue to pressure the structure until there are no more supplies to sustain it.

Yes it takes time but why is that a problem? Some of the best fights are had trying to capture something from a defending onslaught. If you want fast karma and XP go to EOTM or develop some patience for actual strategy.

EDIT: Also on the note of “defending being made easy” as you’ve been saying about post HoT, so what? PPT doesn’t matter anymore right? That’s what everyone’s always saying? Then why does it matter if things are hard to take or not?

Maybe try reading the thread, before making ridiculous assumptions. Always love when someone who knows nothing about a person tries to point out their playstyle.

Considering that you want siege damage against players heavily nerfed and ac’s removed from the game altogether I would say that their assumptions about your play style are pretty spot on.

Wow – clueless people here. You can place a ARC BEHIND the wall and hit the attackers and they can’t put an ARC down to hit yours. How fair is that.

It is already TOO easy to defend with: Chilling Fog, Dragon and Turtle Banners, Emergency WP’s, Enhanced buffs to defenders, etc. How is it hard to defend? Now you want to sit on the wall with impunity? That is ridiculous.

Defending has never been more OP. 1 person can simultaneously disable, man a door shield gen and a door treb at the same time, that + hardened doors and 1 person can stop a group of 40 people from hitting a gate.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Wow – clueless people here. You can place a ARC BEHIND the wall and hit the attackers and they can’t put an ARC down to hit yours. How fair is that.

It is already TOO easy to defend with: Chilling Fog, Dragon and Turtle Banners, Emergency WP’s, Enhanced buffs to defenders, etc. How is it hard to defend? Now you want to sit on the wall with impunity? That is ridiculous.

As far as I’m concerned they can get rid of everything in your second paragraph and shield generators too. I refuse to use that sort of cheese.

What tower are you able to use your “place an ac behind the wall to hit outside”? How far back from the wall do you have to toss it?

I don’t know what WvW is like for you guys who are saying defending is easy but it’s about the same as it’s always been where I am…

The only time I complain about siege is when it’s open field. Otherwise, I expect there to be siege in anything we’re attacking. Does it bother me? Not really. That’s why it’s there, so attackers can’t blob everything down with no resistance.

If the blob is big enough, it doesn’t matter how much siege or how many guild buffs the structure has, they’ll still plow straight on through. If it’s only a small group? Then yeah, it’s more of an issue because there are a lot of things you have to work around. Is it impossible though? Not even close… Just don’t go “okay screw this” as soon as your rams or catas die. Can’t tell you how many people I’ve seen just give up as soon as their siege is killed. Like I said earlier, attackers have the advantage of time and resources. Go re-supply, keep pressuring. By quitting as soon as your siege dies all you’re doing is allowing time for that structure to refill, repair and re-prepare for attacks.

Anyway I can pretty much tell I won’t talk any sense in to the zerglings here. Probably have never defended or done strategic small group roaming in their lives, it’d be a waste of my time so… Keep QQ’ing about how easy it is to defend. I’ll be over here enjoying the engagements that come from the attacker and defender roles instead of getting my panties in a knot because it takes more than 3 minutes to capture something.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

I don’t know what WvW is like for you guys who are saying defending is easy but it’s about the same as it’s always been where I am…

The only time I complain about siege is when it’s open field. Otherwise, I expect there to be siege in anything we’re attacking. Does it bother me? Not really. That’s why it’s there, so attackers can’t blob everything down with no resistance.

If the blob is big enough, it doesn’t matter how much siege or how many guild buffs the structure has, they’ll still plow straight on through. If it’s only a small group? Then yeah, it’s more of an issue because there are a lot of things you have to work around. Is it impossible though? Not even close… Just don’t go “okay screw this” as soon as your rams or catas die. Can’t tell you how many people I’ve seen just give up as soon as their siege is killed. Like I said earlier, attackers have the advantage of time and resources. Go re-supply, keep pressuring. By quitting as soon as your siege dies all you’re doing is allowing time for that structure to refill, repair and re-prepare for attacks.

Anyway I can pretty much tell I won’t talk any sense in to the zerglings here. Probably have never defended or done strategic small group roaming in their lives, it’d be a waste of my time so… Keep QQ’ing about how easy it is to defend. I’ll be over here enjoying the engagements that come from the attacker and defender roles instead of getting my panties in a knot because it takes more than 3 minutes to capture something.

When a 3-40 man group gets prevented from taking a keep because of 5 people on shield gens, arcs, etc. then it becomes too easy. Then pull the Emergency WP just when your foes are on the lord and Rick Roll them.

esll of text and browser crash gg so again in short

l@p defending was way to easy before all this new cheesemaps/guildbuffs/new shiled gens and now it´s just broken how easy you can siegebunkering all keeps. atm no server 100% tryhard defending like iin a season but if they would you cannot get any sieged t3 keep with a full zone blob vs 10 defenders manning the right siege.

there counterspots for all gates and walls from inside a keep you cannot reach with aoe and often not even with attacking siege cause of los. lone range trebs wars they counter with trebs from differents spots you often cannot control all or they just yolo die on your trebs until they´re down.

the only old attack way without counterplay was trashopen all gates even fully upgraded while under tons of ac´s hitting you. impossible with new guildupgrade.

if you are ountnumberd by the attackers or just suck at fighting and get 1 pushed every fight open field there is no reason you should be able to hold any keep vs them.

siege/defending should be able to slow atackers down and give you a advantage when both side are around same power but don´t ask for more easy defending because you loose your stuff to a zerg that is just way bigger/ play better than yours. that is a population issue and no siege/defending balacne issue.

if you are not able to push out after you get some time whle attackers open outer and inner walls/gates becasue you doesn´t have numbers or skill to fight them than you deserve to loose it.

siege bunkering with low numbers/skill is1. way to easy and rewarding.

i see you zone blobs most time national server get 1. push every open field fight and if you attack a single keep they just are able to stop you only with siege without any need for them to wipe you even with they´re masssive advantage in siege and terrain for them. if you cannot wipe the enmy you shouldn´t be able to defend your keep just with cheesy siege without counterplay.

Dusty Moon.4382:

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

I don’t know what WvW is like for you guys who are saying defending is easy but it’s about the same as it’s always been where I am…

The only time I complain about siege is when it’s open field. Otherwise, I expect there to be siege in anything we’re attacking. Does it bother me? Not really. That’s why it’s there, so attackers can’t blob everything down with no resistance.

If the blob is big enough, it doesn’t matter how much siege or how many guild buffs the structure has, they’ll still plow straight on through. If it’s only a small group? Then yeah, it’s more of an issue because there are a lot of things you have to work around. Is it impossible though? Not even close… Just don’t go “okay screw this” as soon as your rams or catas die. Can’t tell you how many people I’ve seen just give up as soon as their siege is killed. Like I said earlier, attackers have the advantage of time and resources. Go re-supply, keep pressuring. By quitting as soon as your siege dies all you’re doing is allowing time for that structure to refill, repair and re-prepare for attacks.

Anyway I can pretty much tell I won’t talk any sense in to the zerglings here. Probably have never defended or done strategic small group roaming in their lives, it’d be a waste of my time so… Keep QQ’ing about how easy it is to defend. I’ll be over here enjoying the engagements that come from the attacker and defender roles instead of getting my panties in a knot because it takes more than 3 minutes to capture something.

When a 3-40 man group gets prevented from taking a keep because of 5 people on shield gens, arcs, etc. then it becomes too easy. Then pull the Emergency WP just when your foes are on the lord and Rick Roll them.

If a 40-man group gets bounced because of 5 people, they are really, really bad at the game. They could hit 8 locations without thinning themselves so low that they couldn’t defend their siege. Honestly, if they hit so much as 2 places they should prevail—or they could hit 1 place and stagger cata boulders.

bloodletting wolf.2837:

X T D.6458:

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

X T D.6458:

Stand The Wall.6987:

its pretty ridiculous. walking up to a wall edge is a death sentence, cuz if you dont get pulled you will get bursted down in a few secs by random aoes.

would be really nice if this wasnt the case. defenders need not only incentives but actual mechanics that work in their favor.

What is ridiculous about it? Should attackers just politely stand there and let defenders attack them? Its just a ridiculous argument to make, if something doesn’t work for you, use better strategy. If you are in an exposed position do you honestly expect enemies not to use skills to attack you? What game mode are you playing exactly?

Lmfao, you and anyone else that think this isn’t an issue are just the karma farming tools that can’t peel through a gate fast enough.

Attackers have the advantage of resources and time. Defenders have nothing but what they’ve pre-built and back up defenders if there are enough people on the map/able to come to their aid.

If walls were made thicker or if AOE’s were changed or what ever solution were put in to place, it would not make attacking any more difficult. Find a hill, build a ballista, use a trebuchet, etc. Once that structure is drained of supplies or the defenders inside don’t have blueprints, there’s nothing more they can do to prevent the attackers from pushing through.

That’s the difference between attacker and defender. Defender can turtle all they want and hug all the siege they want but if the attackers are patient and smart, they can either kill all the siege with properly placed counter siege or they can continue to pressure the structure until there are no more supplies to sustain it.

Yes it takes time but why is that a problem? Some of the best fights are had trying to capture something from a defending onslaught. If you want fast karma and XP go to EOTM or develop some patience for actual strategy.

EDIT: Also on the note of “defending being made easy” as you’ve been saying about post HoT, so what? PPT doesn’t matter anymore right? That’s what everyone’s always saying? Then why does it matter if things are hard to take or not?

Maybe try reading the thread, before making ridiculous assumptions. Always love when someone who knows nothing about a person tries to point out their playstyle.

Considering that you want siege damage against players heavily nerfed and ac’s removed from the game altogether I would say that their assumptions about your play style are pretty spot on.

Yea I know it sounds insane, for someone to say players should be able to actually use their skills to hit players and defenders’ siege. Of course those who cant get off their ac’s and trebs hiding somewhere inside a structure that’s also unhittable will automatically resort to calling those that disagree oh just ktrainers, because well, why make a logical objective argument when you can insult people and feel better about yourself right?

When you have people saying it should be easier to just attack people from walls w/o risk, and taking away attackers ability to counter. Like someone already mentioned, with all the garbage they added with HoT, you have defensive options out the you know what, and on top of that you want terrain to be changed to make it easier for you to attack people w/o risk…gg

Dusty Moon.4382:

Wow – clueless people here. You can place a ARC BEHIND the wall and hit the attackers and they can’t put an ARC down to hit yours. How fair is that.

It is already TOO easy to defend with: Chilling Fog, Dragon and Turtle Banners, Emergency WP’s, Enhanced buffs to defenders, etc. How is it hard to defend? Now you want to sit on the wall with impunity? That is ridiculous.

yep…but hey we see this imbalance so we must be ktrainers right? Because capping objectives is’nt a big part of wvw right? How about give them immunity anytime they get targeted, think they will be happy then?

X T D.6458:

Stand The Wall.6987:

whats ridiculous about it is its impossible to attack the enemy as a defender. you are forced into siege to quell the enemy. if you can pull off 1500 range and spend 75% of the time kiting great, but anything short of that is likely to get caught. do you disagree? i would love to hear your response.

Yes I do disagree, you have people here basically complaining they cant just attack people w/o any consequences to themselves, its absolutely ridiculous. As if its not bad enough how HoT threw off the entire balance between defending and attacking in favor of defending with all the garbage gimmicks they added and siege buffs. And here you are asking why it cant be made easier to attack an enemy so they cant attack you, what nonsense is this, what game mode are you people playing???

Sometimes I get pulled, nuked, or trip, but I don’t go around saying, geez I wish the walls were changed so I can just freely attack an enemy without them being able to do anything back…

im not saying there should be no consequences. im saying that if walls were better, as well as some other basic mechanics, then there wouldnt be a need to have HoT gimmicks and siege spam. im all for getting rid of the gimmicks and limiting the amount of siege for both sides. i think they dont address the underlying problem.

Too many people in this thread have zero attention span and lose their patience as soon as they have to use their brains to develop a plan of action.

Seriously it shouldn’t surprise me with how many blobs are around and how few roamers/small groups still exist but actually seeing people complain about structure defense just makes me lol. I mean some of the post HoT buffs are definitely broken like Airship defense or Cloaking Waters but otherwise? It’s absolutely fine that things are difficult to capture. It means less face v gate and more “hm, how can we take this” while having lots of fights in the process.

I just can’t put myself in the shoes of someone who thinks like this:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Wow – clueless people here. You can place a ARC BEHIND the wall and hit the attackers and they can’t put an ARC down to hit yours. How fair is that.

It is already TOO easy to defend with: Chilling Fog, Dragon and Turtle Banners, Emergency WP’s, Enhanced buffs to defenders, etc. How is it hard to defend? Now you want to sit on the wall with impunity? That is ridiculous.

Wouldn’t it be crazy if these towers had no roofs, or if higher ground existed to build ballistas, or if trebuchets existed, or if there were multiple breakable walls, or if you could re-build siege that has been killed, or if you could build shield generators outside to prevent AC’s on your catas/rams, or if you could use a distraction group while another captures, or if there was something called using your brain instead of going full blob zombie?

Stand The Wall.6987:

X T D.6458:

Stand The Wall.6987:

whats ridiculous about it is its impossible to attack the enemy as a defender. you are forced into siege to quell the enemy. if you can pull off 1500 range and spend 75% of the time kiting great, but anything short of that is likely to get caught. do you disagree? i would love to hear your response.

Yes I do disagree, you have people here basically complaining they cant just attack people w/o any consequences to themselves, its absolutely ridiculous. As if its not bad enough how HoT threw off the entire balance between defending and attacking in favor of defending with all the garbage gimmicks they added and siege buffs. And here you are asking why it cant be made easier to attack an enemy so they cant attack you, what nonsense is this, what game mode are you people playing???

Sometimes I get pulled, nuked, or trip, but I don’t go around saying, geez I wish the walls were changed so I can just freely attack an enemy without them being able to do anything back…

im not saying there should be no consequences. im saying that if walls were better, as well as some other basic mechanics, then there wouldnt be a need to have HoT gimmicks and siege spam. im all for getting rid of the gimmicks and limiting the amount of siege for both sides. i think they dont address the underlying problem.

Well take for example the wall in fire keep inner, now that’s kind of an extreme case because of its height and its basically the only way to attack fire keep inner is to face that wall, there is no other way to break into fire keep’s lords room. Now from up there people can plant acs all along the edge overlooking the area below and spam red circles all over the place, with very little that players can do to counter it, I just find this to be bad design. I know about the cata, and ballista spots but that’s kind of irrelevant, my comment is on the design itself. People will still abuse siege and other gimmicks because its easy to, and I think wvw needs to move towards a path that encourages players to fight each other, not siege and doors.

X T D.6458:

People will still abuse siege and other gimmicks because its easy to, and I think wvw needs to move towards a path that encourages players to fight each other, not siege and doors.

Amen. Your word the anets ears.

Well, regarding the elementalists meteor shower. As far as I can remember when playing this profession long time ago, a zerker ele is very squishy. Under an attack he won’t cast long enough for the full power, the cd is high. Simple solution, don’t let him to come near to the wall, chill him for example. Usually there is lack of ele’s in zergs.

Anet has changed some skills, that this profession doesn’t make fun in wvw to me like it does before. I’m still mourning about the old meteor shower (10 players, unblockable) and old dragon tooth. But every time I found a new fun making build, they have nerf’d it to the ground shortly after. Thanks to those players who don’t know the advantage of this profession, but cry a lot about it how much damage the ele does.

I would also look forward to have heavy projetiles with parabolas like that at least one for each proffesion.

X T D.6458:

Well take for example the wall in fire keep inner, now that’s kind of an extreme case because of its height and its basically the only way to attack fire keep inner is to face that wall, there is no other way to break into fire keep’s lords room.

… thats not entirely true…

You can cata the south door from a completely safe location on the top of the south stairs. Its possible you can reach the wall as well, havent really tried all spots.

When you see it you will go “DOH!”.

And now that I have said that, a million arrowcart users will cry.

X T D.6458:

… and I think wvw needs to move towards a path that encourages players to fight each other, not siege and doors.

An there is a problem in the discussion here:
XTD wants a plain battleground to fight other people everywhere?
I think he can still have that (e.g. in the Oasis ruin, all of the sand area on top of Fire keep and most of the south of the BL).

Others, including me, want strategy on placement of scouts and siege to cover and defend / lay siege to – and that should be a good part of WvW.
It is always great to place siege, either offensively or defensively where enemies can’t reach it just because they can move (shoot there) there without effort.

This leads us back to the problem with the low walls on the “common towers”. This natural defense is without function when it can be dominated by two people with AoE rings standing at the bottom of the wall (miss-)using a game mechanic.

The new towers made a lot of things better in their design compared to their Alpine counterparts (e.g. a back door, some parts that could not be destroyed etc.), but the basic wall still is a problem (+ the canons which are a zone of death to the defender and not for the attacker.