Guild Wars 2

I just skimmed through multiple sections of the legal stuff, and I didn’t quite interpret anything to cover WvW spying conduct. I discovered my formerly favorite commander has resorted to spying with an alternate account, and I don’t know if I’m supposed to report that or tolerate it.

It’s not against TOS to own and play on more than one account. There is nothing In TOS that says the accounts must be on the same server and only one used to access WvW.

Michael Henninger.7451:

Match manipulation is a no-no.

So how do we report such cheaters, when it’s happening at all tier levels, all the time?

Edit – Stuff like Commander tag watching, Keep Supply draining, Commander/Driver “call target” with a spy in a party with their friends on the other server, etc.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

It’s not against TOS to own and play on more than one account. There is nothing In TOS that says the accounts must be on the same server and only one used to access WvW.

No one asked a word about having accounts on different servers. They asked about spying. Meaning feeding information. Which is match manipulation. Which also violates the rule in ToS about intentionally degrading other players experience. There are 5 rules a reasonable person could interpret as being broken by spying. many more if you count supply trolling, or siege trolling.

None of that has anything to do with having accounts on different servers. Malicious behavior is a problem. There are plenty of players who have accounts on different servers for benign reasons.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Michael Henninger.7451:

Match manipulation is a no-no.

So how do we report such cheaters, when it’s happening at all tier levels, all the time?

Edit – Stuff like Commander tag watching, Keep Supply draining, Commander/Driver “call target” with a spy in a party with their friends on the other server, etc.

Seems to me you need reasonable evidence to support a report first. That would strike me as difficult in most cases.

coglin.1867:

Seems to me you need reasonable evidence to support a report first. That would strike me as difficult in most cases.

I know. It’s blatantly obvious that it’s happening, and we’re pretty much powerless to stop it because we can’t offer hard proof. ProHeals does what he can, but that’s when he’s seeing it happen live. He can’t be on all servers all the time.

coglin.1867:

Which also violates the rule in ToS about intentionally degrading other players experience.

Well if you want to talk about intentionally degrading the experience for other players, the list can go on and on until every player is banned.

I can tell you my guild no longer has much fun, we log on, 25-30 players, we run around the maps. We run into an enemy zerg of maybe 50-60 players, we fight, we win.

We run around looking for them again, we find them, they see us and run, they run like there is no tomorrow, they follow the saying Whoever falls behind gets left behind. They wont fight at all, they just want PvD and PPT.

They continue to play chicken for the rest of the night, or wait for us to go offline so they can PvD with little to no resistance.

So I ask you where is the fun for us?!
We want fights yet even being outnumbered by the enemy zerg doesnt give us enough fun cos they are a mindless zerg with no skill at all!
We’ll run into a serious WvW guild once in a while, but even then we win most of our fights to the point that the enemy WvW guild gets their mindless zerg to come help them defeat us!

We’ve even had enemy zergs move to other maps due to us wiping them so much! They simply refuse to fight at all!

So is this against the ToS? Match manipulation? Working as intended? Players playing how they want?
Because it seems the first answer from anet is they cannot control the way a player plays; but if enough people complain it becomes against the ToS and a bannable offense!

TBH I am getting sick with the state of WvW, and this game, and the constant reserve opinions of the mods.
It’s making the game worse and worse to the point that we cannot be bothered playing anymore!

My guild used to raid until 2am every single day!
Now we’re all logging off or playing other games by 11pm!!!!

Michael Henninger.7451:

Match manipulation is a no-no.

I’d really like to know what defines match manipulation in a WvW setting.

Chaba.5410:

Michael Henninger.7451:

Match manipulation is a no-no.

I’d really like to know what defines match manipulation in a WvW setting.

Me too. It’s never been made clear to us. What about WvW guilds that span multiple servers in the same tier/matchup? There’s obviously no way to prove they’re engaging in match manipulation without being a part of them. There are simply a lot of things that we don’t know.

Chaba.5410:

Michael Henninger.7451:

Match manipulation is a no-no.

I’d really like to know what defines match manipulation in a WvW setting.

Seconded.

It seems like a vague thing to say that could mean pretty much anything. Does planning to capture a tower so that you get points count as “manipulating” the match? How about using TeamSpeak to coordinate with other guilds?

Same for “degrading another player’s experience”, I could say that the thief who killed the dolyak I was escorting, followed by killing my character degraded my player experience.

I don’t condone or support spying and think people who spy are jerks that ultimately make matches boring, but I would rather have spies than a vague ill-defined “rule”.

Chaba.5410:

Michael Henninger.7451:

Match manipulation is a no-no.

I’d really like to know what defines match manipulation in a WvW setting.

When the “spy” is doing something that negativly affect the outcome of the matchup (large or small scale doesnt matter)?

The problem here is that Anet cannot stop people having multiple accounts. And its going to be difficult to prove matchup manipulation or simply playing on another account. I mean, technically a commander on server A which is fighting server B and C could decide that tuesday, he’s commanding on server B because he has an alt account there. Is that match manipulation? I dont think so. But at the same time you could argue that him not being on server A will make it loose, thus he is manipulating the matchup. I dont think that is Anets intention with this though.

Its when you directly do something with the intent to disrupt the server you are on, such as spamming rams everywhere to drain supply so that the enemy server can cap it easy, that’s their target for this type of ToS breach.

But that’s just a guess.

Match manipulation maybe a no-no but that fact remains its been going on since game release and not much can be done to stop people giving info to other sides. From ingame party/privte chat, Team Speak and other type of software.

Michael Henninger.7451:

Match manipulation is a no-no.

So where does match manipulation start? Are GvGs outside of the Obsidian Sanctum match manipulation? Is “wasting” supplies to advance repair achievement match manipulation? Is using a 2nd account to trebuchet objectives to repair on your main account match manipulation? (there are people doing this) Is wasting slots on the map by afking, waiting in spawn or roleplaying match manipulation? The list could go on and on.

coglin.1867:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

It’s not against TOS to own and play on more than one account. There is nothing In TOS that says the accounts must be on the same server and only one used to access WvW.

No one asked a word about having accounts on different servers. They asked about spying. Meaning feeding information. Which is match manipulation. Which also violates the rule in ToS about intentionally degrading other players experience. There are 5 rules a reasonable person could interpret as being broken by spying. many more if you count supply trolling, or siege trolling.

None of that has anything to do with having accounts on different servers. Malicious behavior is a problem. There are plenty of players who have accounts on different servers for benign reasons.

I don’t do much WvW but I don’t think I’ve ever heard of anyone getting in trouble for spying on another side in all the almost 3 years I’ve been playing. If ANet is now saying it’s match manipulation, then this is a new thing and maybe they should make an announcement. If they haven’t enforced this in almost 3 years, people can reasonably think it’s allowable.

If they can’t enforce it, then there is no point is saying it’s not allowed. Rules that can’t be enforced are not good rules.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

coglin.1867:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

It’s not against TOS to own and play on more than one account. There is nothing In TOS that says the accounts must be on the same server and only one used to access WvW.

No one asked a word about having accounts on different servers. They asked about spying. Meaning feeding information. Which is match manipulation. Which also violates the rule in ToS about intentionally degrading other players experience. There are 5 rules a reasonable person could interpret as being broken by spying. many more if you count supply trolling, or siege trolling.

None of that has anything to do with having accounts on different servers. Malicious behavior is a problem. There are plenty of players who have accounts on different servers for benign reasons.

I don’t do much WvW but I don’t think I’ve ever heard of anyone getting in trouble for spying on another side in all the almost 3 years I’ve been playing. If ANet is now saying it’s match manipulation, then this is a new thing and maybe they should make an announcement. If they haven’t enforced this in almost 3 years, people can reasonably think it’s allowable.

If they can’t enforce it, then there is no point is saying it’s not allowed. Rules that can’t be enforced are not good rules.

I can guarantee at least one account has been banned for match manipulation in this manner.

A player I whispered accidentally whispered me back with the message meant for his pals on the opposing server.

I PMed a dev here on the forums with the account name, server, and time. He Pulled the logs of that account. Which I gather means allowing them to see all messages in say, guild, map, group, as well as damage logs and so on. He replied to us that the “issue was solved” and I never saw that player log on again.

Streamers such as myself have audio recording and video of our chat logs, so sending a copy of that as evidence of my suspicion was enough to warrant an investigation.

Now, I admit, someone breaking the rules in that manner need to make a mistake to tip you off as to who they are, and create evidence for investigating. Which is likely very few and far between at best.

Welp, time to ban all of T1 for match manipulation right?

Come on Michael, you’ve got to be more specific than that

Michael Henninger.7451:

Match manipulation is a no-no.

Match manipulation is contingent on the match itself being competitive. How exactly do you define match manipulation when there’s no competition?

Coldtart.4785:

Michael Henninger.7451:

Match manipulation is a no-no.

Match manipulation is contingent on the match itself being competitive. How exactly do you define match manipulation when there’s no competition?

it doesn’t require a competitive score to maliciously manipulate it.

Michael Henninger.7451:

Match manipulation is a no-no.

And is spying considered match manipulation?

Lord Kuru.3685:

Michael Henninger.7451:

Match manipulation is a no-no.

And is spying considered match manipulation?

No it’s tactics

But what are they gonna do about TS spies? It’s the same thing but a 3rd party program.

Orochimaru.4730:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Michael Henninger.7451:

Match manipulation is a no-no.

And is spying considered match manipulation?

No it’s tactics

But what are they gonna do about TS spies? It’s the same thing but a 3rd party program.

Be a grown up and police your TS

Reverence.6915:

Welp, time to ban all of T1 for match manipulation right?

Come on Michael, you’ve got to be more specific than that

They probably should tbh. Perhaps not all, but a significant chunk? Sure.

T1 na is a poor example to use because match fixing of all kinds is rampant there.

Michael Henninger.7451:

Match manipulation is a no-no.

Does this include eotm? Because it is rampant in there. I know it’s not wvw for all intents and purposes but I am curious if the cross tier guilds/players that communicate with one another to avoid crossing paths and keep the ktrain going strong are violating the rules?

Edit: And to be honest simply saying “Match manipulation is a no-no” is a little too broad without defining what you mean. I could pose scenarios all day long but here’s a quick example

Player has accounts on server A and server C. Player is on server A’s community TS helping them build golems in preparation for a rush on server C’s BL in 1.5 hours. In 1 hour he is switching accounts to server C and is going to be tagged up and defending home BL as part of a pre-planned guild event. He knows that server A is going to be doing golem rush, knows approximately how many golems will be involved, and knows what time it will happen. So is he manipulating the match if he defends?

Reverence.6915:

Welp, time to ban all of T1 for match manipulation right?

Come on Michael, you’ve got to be more specific than that

By being intentionally aloof it allows Anet to define “match manipulation” on the fly and look at things on a case by case basis instead of having a rigid set of do’s and don’ts but I do agree it’s a little too broad

Kanebrake.6192:

Reverence.6915:

Welp, time to ban all of T1 for match manipulation right?

Come on Michael, you’ve got to be more specific than that

By being intentionally aloof it allows Anet to define “match manipulation” on the fly and look at things on a case by case basis instead of having a rigid set of do’s and don’ts but I do agree it’s a little too broad

Yeah, the basic problem of a rigid definition is that you create a nice, accessible list of Things To Not Do Otherwise We’re Fine.

If certain guilds don’t seem to think partying up with enemy commanders in order to avoid combat counts as “match manipulation,” though, it’d sure be nice for Mr. GM ProHeals to chime in. In fact, I’ll make it easy.

Does partying with the enemy to track them for the purposes of finding or avoiding combat in WvW or EOTM count as match manipulation?

And then Mr. GM Proheals can just copy/paste this… You’ll just need to add the first [ and the last [. It’s only two characters to type, so I saved you half of the keystrokes! :-)

quote]Does partying with the enemy to track them for the purposes of finding or avoiding combat in WvW or EOTM count as match manipulation? /quote]

Yes.

Tera GX.8149:

I just skimmed through multiple sections of the legal stuff, and I didn’t quite interpret anything to cover WvW spying conduct. I discovered my formerly favorite commander has resorted to spying with an alternate account, and I don’t know if I’m supposed to report that or tolerate it.

That it is legal or not is pretty irrelevant to me. You don’t need to hire an entire firm of lawyers to know that doing this is seriously taking the fun away from a lot of players. You are a kitten if you spy like that period. That others do it is no reason to justify you doing it. It’s merely yet another logical fallacy to reason in those lines (2 wrongs don’t make a right) .

As for reporting your commander I’d first talk to him to try and sway him away from that practice. If he continues fire away. f I know we have ppl on my server that does this I’ll do the exact same.

Chaba.5410:

Michael Henninger.7451:

Match manipulation is a no-no.

I’d really like to know what defines match manipulation in a WvW setting.

Intentionally building siege to drain supply and hit the cap would be manipulation.
I believe there was a infamous flying enemy recently – cheating is manipulation.
Spying… which some have said is a tactic is spying. Cheating is also a tactic… and draining supply by building useless siege.

Us: Is it legal to drive after having had some alcohol?

Possible helpful answer 1: If your BAC is over 0.08% it is illegal.
Possible helpful answer 2: If your driving abilities are impaired it is illegal.

Anet’s answer: It’s illegal to drive drunk.

One Prarie Outpost.4860:

Chaba.5410:

Michael Henninger.7451:

Match manipulation is a no-no.

I’d really like to know what defines match manipulation in a WvW setting.

Intentionally building siege to drain supply and hit the cap would be manipulation.
I believe there was a infamous flying enemy recently – cheating is manipulation.
Spying… which some have said is a tactic is spying. Cheating is also a tactic… and draining supply by building useless siege.

It’s only match manipulation if it affects the outcome of the match. How can you tell if one incident has an affect on a matchup that lasts 7 days?

Deli.1302:

One Prarie Outpost.4860:

Chaba.5410:

Michael Henninger.7451:

Match manipulation is a no-no.

I’d really like to know what defines match manipulation in a WvW setting.

Intentionally building siege to drain supply and hit the cap would be manipulation.
I believe there was a infamous flying enemy recently – cheating is manipulation.
Spying… which some have said is a tactic is spying. Cheating is also a tactic… and draining supply by building useless siege.

It’s only match manipulation if it affects the outcome of the match. How can you tell if one incident has an affect on a matchup that lasts 7 days?

I do believe they are suggesting that maliciously acting to manipulate a match is against the rules.

coglin.1867:

I do believe they are suggesting that maliciously acting to manipulate a match is against the rules.

I would hope so! Because I’d really like to be ensured that whispering my friends on an opposing server to tell them where we are so we can get some awesome fights is not accidentally interpreted as malicious match manipulation.

Michael Henninger.7451:

Match manipulation is a no-no.

How is match manipulation defined? If I know someone on another server and tell them where our group is for fights is that match manipulation?

coglin.1867:

Deli.1302:

One Prarie Outpost.4860:

Chaba.5410:

Michael Henninger.7451:

Match manipulation is a no-no.

I’d really like to know what defines match manipulation in a WvW setting.

Intentionally building siege to drain supply and hit the cap would be manipulation.
I believe there was a infamous flying enemy recently – cheating is manipulation.
Spying… which some have said is a tactic is spying. Cheating is also a tactic… and draining supply by building useless siege.

It’s only match manipulation if it affects the outcome of the match. How can you tell if one incident has an affect on a matchup that lasts 7 days?

I do believe they are suggesting that maliciously acting to manipulate a match is against the rules.

And how exactly can it be proven when no physical evidence could ever exist in game?

Michael Henninger.7451:

Match manipulation is a no-no.

Have you been to EotM?

And how do we report match manipulation?

Deli.1302:

coglin.1867:

Deli.1302:

One Prarie Outpost.4860:

Chaba.5410:

Michael Henninger.7451:

Match manipulation is a no-no.

I’d really like to know what defines match manipulation in a WvW setting.

Intentionally building siege to drain supply and hit the cap would be manipulation.
I believe there was a infamous flying enemy recently – cheating is manipulation.
Spying… which some have said is a tactic is spying. Cheating is also a tactic… and draining supply by building useless siege.

It’s only match manipulation if it affects the outcome of the match. How can you tell if one incident has an affect on a matchup that lasts 7 days?

I do believe they are suggesting that maliciously acting to manipulate a match is against the rules.

And how exactly can it be proven when no physical evidence could ever exist in game?

Who said you can? Although in this very thread I explained a specific case where aquiring evidence panned out.

This war, spies are to be expected. If it is against the ToS, how do you prove it?

So your saying your t1 sever is doing something that a no no and yet Proheal done noting to fix the match manipulation going on in there t-1 sever Proheal all talk no action.

Julie Yann.5379:

This war, spies are to be expected. If it is against the ToS, how do you prove it?

The comparison to spies is foolish.

In real life, spies can be captured or killed. In this game, spies appear as allies and we are without recourse.

You should know better and probably do.

Chaba.5410:

Michael Henninger.7451:

Match manipulation is a no-no.

I’d really like to know what defines match manipulation in a WvW setting.

I would like a TOS defined ruling on this. (Amend the TOS please).

Personally I don’t play to break the game, but I have no problem with someone deciding they want to spy on me playing, it’s a given actually, and I believe it is part of the game mode that you should prepare yourself against. My entire time outside of GW as an online player is in games that put together large number of players in a war style setting, and a key tactic is to gather enemy intelligence as many different ways as possible.

Also under this could fall the diplomacy of two servers working together to stack their tier. This I believe is also a part of the game that should be allowed even though it is in some view entirely wrong. Again I hate running into such a situation but there is a reason there are 3 teams on a map and not just 2.

To start limiting the rules of war you change the game mode. I enjoy 5v5 arena but WvW is not 5v5 arena less rules as long as you are not doing something along real illegal lines such as ddos, then anything else goes, learn from it, plan for it, and adjust your method.

Spies can be feed wrong information. 2 v 1 settings force you to think about negotiating diplomacy between your server and another.

I am sure the community can think of other things that may fall under match manipulation and I would enjoy seeing more of that. But definitely TOS should be updated, if anet is going to suddenly start banning for spying.

timmyf.1490:

Julie Yann.5379:

This war, spies are to be expected. If it is against the ToS, how do you prove it?

The comparison to spies is foolish.

In real life, spies can be captured or killed. In this game, spies appear as allies and we are without recourse.

You should know better and probably do.

Of course I do, and I don’t approve of the practice but it is what it is. I just don’t see what the big deal is. If the game is going to be played dirty just send your own spies to do the same. Like I said, How do you prove it?

Deli.1302:

One Prarie Outpost.4860:

Chaba.5410:

Michael Henninger.7451:

Match manipulation is a no-no.

I’d really like to know what defines match manipulation in a WvW setting.

Intentionally building siege to drain supply and hit the cap would be manipulation.
I believe there was a infamous flying enemy recently – cheating is manipulation.
Spying… which some have said is a tactic is spying. Cheating is also a tactic… and draining supply by building useless siege.

It’s only match manipulation if it affects the outcome of the match. How can you tell if one incident has an affect on a matchup that lasts 7 days?

I’m going to assume that it only matters if it could potentially affect the outcome not that is in fact did.

I don’t post on these forums much. Because these forums are hindered by the rule sets and principles ArenaNet places on them. Because of this most people use other forums for better debates and communication. My account I’m posting from is my alt account. My main account is MaLeVoLenT.8129. I’m the leader of Onslaught and Onslaught Legacy, a Cross-Realm guild on both BG and TC. About 3 weeks ago I was Blackgates Server leader. I’ve dealt with countless issues of spying and Cross Realm players and guilds. I’ve seen servers destroyed and communities ruined.

I have one simple question FOR ArenaNet. What is Match Manipulation? Is this when During Season 2, JQ and TC coordinated an extreme amount to Cripple BG? Where as they shared information like commander names and plans. Where as they were in direction communication? Or is Match manipulation, Where BG and JQ’s goals align and a guild plays on both BG and JQ with the sole intent of destroying TC? How will you react when entire communities plot to destroy one another through spying and other forms of “War Tactics”. Is spying just sitting on a enemy map on a secondary account feeding information to the other side? If it is how do you proceed. How do you determine if that individual is actually a spy?

Julie Yann.5379:

This war, spies are to be expected. If it is against the ToS, how do you prove it?

They don’t need to prove it. This is a video game not real life. The level of proof required is pretty much zilch in comparison.

Kanebrake.6192:

Julie Yann.5379:

This war, spies are to be expected. If it is against the ToS, how do you prove it?

They don’t need to prove it. This is a video game not real life. The level of proof required is pretty much zilch in comparison.

So are they supposed to start banning everyone being reported without finding any evidence? I think that would severely hurt their player base.

Ultron.5734:

I don’t post on these forums much. Because these forums are hindered by the rule sets and principles ArenaNet places on them. Because of this most people use other forums for better debates and communication. My account I’m posting from is my alt account. My main account is MaLeVoLenT.8129. I’m the leader of Onslaught and Onslaught Legacy, a Cross-Realm guild on both BG and TC. About 3 weeks ago I was Blackgates Server leader. I’ve dealt with countless issues of spying and Cross Realm players and guilds. I’ve seen servers destroyed and communities ruined.

I have one simple question FOR ArenaNet. What is Match Manipulation? Is this when During Season 2, JQ and TC coordinated an extreme amount to Cripple BG? Where as they shared information like commander names and plans. Where as they were in direction communication? Or is Match manipulation, Where BG and JQ’s goals align and a guild plays on both BG and JQ with the sole intent of destroying TC? How will you react when entire communities plot to destroy one another through spying and other forms of “War Tactics”. Is spying just sitting on a enemy map on a secondary account feeding information to the other side? If it is how do you proceed. How do you determine if that individual is actually a spy?

Whether your intent in having two major forces on two competing servers is to manipulate the matchup or not it just looks bad. There’s appearance of impropriety at work. I was on BG when TW formed TWL and started propping up JQ. Did they manipulate matchups? Well… let’s be perfectly honest the matchup in t1 has been manipulated for a long time with all 3 servers working in agreement to keep them in that tier. Push weeks and all that. I don’t know maybe that’s not done anymore but I know a fair number of people thought it was a shabby thing to do.

Regardless, even if Anet says that cross server guilds on two competing servers is a-ok there’s still going to be players on each server scratching their heads and saying/thinking “something about this stinks”

Julie Yann.5379:

Kanebrake.6192:

Julie Yann.5379:

This war, spies are to be expected. If it is against the ToS, how do you prove it?

They don’t need to prove it. This is a video game not real life. The level of proof required is pretty much zilch in comparison.

So are they supposed to start banning everyone being reported without finding any evidence? I think that would severely hurt their player base.

No. I’m sure they require evidence but they get to determine how much evidence is required, the quality of evidence, and care in handling the evidence isn’t going to be near the level required in a legal proceeding.

Kanebrake.6192:

Ultron.5734:

I don’t post on these forums much. Because these forums are hindered by the rule sets and principles ArenaNet places on them. Because of this most people use other forums for better debates and communication. My account I’m posting from is my alt account. My main account is MaLeVoLenT.8129. I’m the leader of Onslaught and Onslaught Legacy, a Cross-Realm guild on both BG and TC. About 3 weeks ago I was Blackgates Server leader. I’ve dealt with countless issues of spying and Cross Realm players and guilds. I’ve seen servers destroyed and communities ruined.

I have one simple question FOR ArenaNet. What is Match Manipulation? Is this when During Season 2, JQ and TC coordinated an extreme amount to Cripple BG? Where as they shared information like commander names and plans. Where as they were in direction communication? Or is Match manipulation, Where BG and JQ’s goals align and a guild plays on both BG and JQ with the sole intent of destroying TC? How will you react when entire communities plot to destroy one another through spying and other forms of “War Tactics”. Is spying just sitting on a enemy map on a secondary account feeding information to the other side? If it is how do you proceed. How do you determine if that individual is actually a spy?

Whether your intent in having two major forces on two competing servers is to manipulate the matchup or not it just looks bad. There’s appearance of impropriety at work. I was on BG when TW formed TWL and started propping up JQ. Did they manipulate matchups? Well… let’s be perfectly honest the matchup in t1 has been manipulated for a long time with all 3 servers working in agreement to keep them in that tier. Push weeks and all that. I don’t know maybe that’s not done anymore but I know a fair number of people thought it was a shabby thing to do.

Regardless, even if Anet says that cross server guilds on two competing servers is a-ok there’s still going to be players on each server scratching their heads and saying/thinking “something about this stinks”

Is push weeks to secure ones server position, Match manipulation? There has never been a point in time where it was agreed upon the Tier 1 servers to see each other stay in Tier. TW went to JQ because the state of the game was making people very bored. They decided to have alt accounts instead because they didn’t want to leave BG.

Push weeks happened since the very start of this game. I’ve been in Tier 1 for 2 years now and I was once on Sea of Sorrows who also coordinated pushes. Push weeks do not equate to Match Manipulation by any means..

Kanebrake.6192:

Whether your intent in having two major forces on two competing servers is to manipulate the matchup or not it just looks bad. There’s appearance of impropriety at work. I was on BG when TW formed TWL and started propping up JQ. Did they manipulate matchups? Well… let’s be perfectly honest the matchup in t1 has been manipulated for a long time with all 3 servers working in agreement to keep them in that tier. Push weeks and all that. I don’t know maybe that’s not done anymore but I know a fair number of people thought it was a shabby thing to do.

Still done now ONS from BG is doing it on TC as well as BG with accounts on both servers.

Wait, people care about spies still? Yikes.

A guildmate and I discussed this subject tonight. We considered the terms “Spy”, “Saboteur”, and “Agent Provocateur”.

We didn’t feel that “Spy” was enough to warrant being called match manipulation. Too many players jokingly use the term about each other and engage in some form of information feeding without malicious intent. “Saboteur” and “Agent Provocateur” on the other hand could be used to define types of match manipulation behavior.