Guild Wars 2

The WvW situation right now is basically this: you have k-train supporters, those who want more fights and some roamers. You have those who care about ppt and those who don’t.

Satisfying everyone requires an insanely complex system which keeps a balance of all these different playstyles, gives them equal importance, fixes nightcap, doesn’t make k-train too attractive yet keeps the rewards high enaugh, has many different rewards so that every playstyle gets enaugh, makes things hard enaugh so that it’s a challenge for big groups yet easy enaugh that low pop servers can achieve something but not too easy for very small roaming parties, gives smaller servers a working comeback system and keeps a good balance between attackers and defenders.
Or to sum it up: everything people have been asking for in the past.

But many people in these forums don’t understand that only picking the things that will encourage their playstyle and asking for updates on this only won’t “fix WvW” as every second thread nowadays claims. Building a system like this is an enormous project and making all these ideas work together takes a hell lot of time. Yes one could say they had 3 years until now and I guess they should just admit that their previous ideas didn’t work out very well. But you can’t deny they worked on something. I don’t know how many devs they have for WvW, but they don’t get payed for laughing at the forums even if it’s hard to believe for some of you.

Right now I’d say that since it’s mostly impossible to satisfy everyone it would be pretty much pointless to talk to the players about many (maybe besides 2-3) mechanics because it will always be 50% yes and 50% no. And now it’s pretty much guaranteed that one side would start insulting the devs for not doing what they want.
So instead they do as they think and give us all at least something to work with in the first place. I don’t say the maps are perfect, and they most likely imagined it very differently but it’s something to begin with. If ANet wouldn’t give us the content we’d always be discussing ideas instead of having something to work with.
They did some questionable descisions with this map but many of you agree that it’s mostly the small things like some useless PvE mechanics that keep us from playing and that it could be very possible to play there with some tweaks.

We did tell them what we don’t like about the new map (more or less friendly and constructive…) and now it’s their turn. But opening 20 new QQ threads every day repeating the same kitten over and over again won’t make them work faster or more motivated. Just imagine what it feels like to work on something and no matter what you do thousands of people will insult you and call you incompetent. Would you like to work with that in mind? Those devs that actually read the forums and recieve the insults probably don’t have influence on the design choices/priorites anyways. So just say something nice to them here and there.

And in the meantime just go play the map look for the positive things and tell the devs what you like, not only what you dislike. Everyone complains that the maps are empty. But nobody knows how they’d be played when full. And if everyone keeps thinking it’s pointless to join because the borders are empty they aren’t going to fill up. Find some friends on your enemy server for example, get some fights with them and test the new mechanics with them.

My guild is having 2-3 raids a week with ~10-15 guys and guess what-we have fun. And I know many people who like the new map. Not everyone abandoned WvW and cursed ANet after the HoT release.

Go ahead. Call me a white knight. Tell me that I have no idea, because you know everything 10x better.
Give constructive feedback and try to live with what we have right now or write your QQ threads threatening to leave WvW for ever bla bla bla. If you are not able to work in a constructive environment – there’s the door. Goodbye, this game doesn’t need you. And neither does this community.

^good post.

And it is not a being white knigh thing, most people are just blind to see it the new BL issues, since Anet took away their free and easy Alpine borderland karma train they are mad, and cant give good feedback besides “want my easy cap back”.

Ok…sounds great

Entenkommando.5208:

Goodbye, this game doesn’t need you. And neither does this community.

Actually, we do. WvW population is dropping. Anet has lowered the caps on servers as a way to artificially inflate our assessment of the situation, but for the most part anything other than t1 NA (not sure about EU) has no queues outside of EB. We can all sit here and pretend that there aren’t any population issues, but there really are. I’d wager that 90% of people still playing are aware of that. People are quitting left and right, so encouraging more people to leave makes you almost as toxic as the ones who you’ve labeled as toxic.

Melanion.4892:

Entenkommando.5208:

Goodbye, this game doesn’t need you. And neither does this community.

Actually, we do. WvW population is dropping. Anet has lowered the caps on servers as a way to artificially inflate our assessment of the situation, but for the most part anything other than t1 NA (not sure about EU) has no queues outside of EB. We can all sit here and pretend that there aren’t any population issues, but there really are. I’d wager that 90% of people still playing are aware of that. People are quitting left and right, so encouraging more people to leave makes you almost as toxic as the ones who you’ve labeled as toxic.

I have no real comment on the rest of your post, but why is it that so many people see queues as a good thing? I personally like being able to hop to any map I want without having to sit in a queue.

Nate.3927:

Melanion.4892:

Entenkommando.5208:

Goodbye, this game doesn’t need you. And neither does this community.

Actually, we do. WvW population is dropping. Anet has lowered the caps on servers as a way to artificially inflate our assessment of the situation, but for the most part anything other than t1 NA (not sure about EU) has no queues outside of EB. We can all sit here and pretend that there aren’t any population issues, but there really are. I’d wager that 90% of people still playing are aware of that. People are quitting left and right, so encouraging more people to leave makes you almost as toxic as the ones who you’ve labeled as toxic.

I have no real comment on the rest of your post, but why is it that so many people see queues as a good thing? I personally like being able to hop to any map I want without having to sit in a queue.

Queues represent a certain number of players. Tonight, for example, there is a 50 man queue on EB, which normally suggests that a lot of players are here, but on every map other than EB my server has no more than 10 people. Some of us like to at least have 20-30 on a map in order for it to be interesting.

Its hypocritical, self contradicting, condescending, self righteous, and insulting threads like these that the community and game doesn’t need, not posts with relevant feedback and frustrations over recent changes that actually affect peoples gaming.

List of changes that I like

(1) The new sentry detection system is great. It mades sentry more useful and allows players to not lose time going where the ennemy is not (it goes well with point 2). This new sentry was also suposed to kill yaks and get people to go flip the sentries… sadly… yaks are useless so on that part it failed to hit the mark.

(2) The map calls when a structure is taken by X server is also great. It might only be a solo roamer, but it will still improve the information network. This combined with a sentry that scouted a group of players earlier allows you to walk directly to where you think the group will be in the next few seconds.

(3) I like the fact that lord HP scales up with the number of players. It gives people a better response time to gather enough folks to get a good fight instead of getting structures flipped without a good brawl in the lord room.

Here is a list of things that needs a little tweak before being things that I would like.

(1) Auto upgrades seems awesome on paper… But I think simply making it so upgrades are forced to be in a specific order would of solved the troll problem. Make it so yaks count! Yaks are useless now. Also, waypoint on T0 keep makes WvW lose its touch. I remember when we did map calls on every map to get our people to defend our T3 keep with a waypoint. Those were fun fights in the lord room. Now? Keep flips and it doesn’t matter since we will grab it back while gaining access to the only upgrade which truly did matters as a welcome gift. Also, removing Bay and Hills waypoint on the new map just bring less fights (less incentive to actually go defend it since it will never get a waypoint).

(2) The new event in the Desert bordeland map. This event seems great and all. But I still think that a big area with a cap point could of been a better choice than to kill those PVE monsters. Imagine a large cap where there is a timer ticking down for every second your server control the point. I feel like it would be more appropriate for a players vs players environnement. King of the hills kind of tournament would of been amazing I think. Atleast the event as it is is not so fun, it’s just that those Dinos don’t really belong to WvW if you ask me (my opinion, sorry if some people love those Dinos XD). A king of the hill tournament could of been one big platform or up to 3 big platform where each platform control gives you -1 second on the total timer. Once it reachs 0 the canon is yours.

Things that I truly do not like

(1) The non players automated things in the Desert borderland map. I’m talking about those slow turrets, those flame turrets, those winds turrets and those earth walls. They are annoying more than anything. As to replace those things, I would simply take them off and get the blessing of the element when near that area (no more need to actually go and click the shrine to get the move speed boost). I would also take back the combat boost that those elemental buffs gives, environement should not give such a potent stats boost which vary depending on the region you are playing on (same with the imune to burning in fire keep). Also, invisible zergs is simply a bad concept, but I got no idea how to replace that buff without imbalacing the fights (need help finding a solution so I can edit that part later on).Finally, since earth keep have 2 automated things, (turrets and walls). I would simply give them a detector (like a sentry would if it spotted an ennemy) all over the keep so it can detect any hiding ennemies inside that keep and in the close periphery of that keep.

(2) Fortified gate… Those are new and they are slow to take down. Also guild catapults got nerfed to the ground so breaking a fortified wall takes an army or will simply take forever if you are a roaming squad. But gate is now also fortified… So it just means more time raming or catapulting those objectives…which in the end me and my roaming friends just leave them be since it’s too much of a chore.

(3) The pathing of the map seems to be worse than what Alpine borderland offered. Zigzaging and going up and down makes the map that is slightly larger to feel like walking from point A to point B to take much more time than what it used to be on Alpine borderland. Or atleast it feels less straightfoward and more about dodging the ennemy than to engage them. Those keeps are just so vast with so many pathway. Keeping it simple is not always a bad thing.

(4) Reset on saturday morning… Bring back friday night reset. This night was crazy, even more than saturday night reset. Get back from work, install yourself and play with your friends on a friday night was amazing.
———————————————————————————————————————————————————————-
Basically, I think a tweaked Alpine would be better. Alpine had its flaws, but people still loved that map after 3 years (sure they asked some fix there and there, but a total revamp of the map doesn’t seem to get us to a better place, fixed some problems only to make new ones arise).

Map good, players bad.

I still want a giant 100- floor tower that you have to fight up the stairs to conquer in mid map. Lord on top.

I’m discovering some really sweet siege placements that holds off blobs.

Navigation I’m still learning, but I see tons of open space for brawls, tons of strategic choke points, tons of new puzzles to figure out.

Couple that with time to actually respond to sword call outs, I think they addressed a good number of defenders wish lists.

For fights, go explore, tons of cool open spaces, especially upper bay sand dunes to scrap it out. Towers and keeps require a bit of strategy to flip. I don’t think that’s a bad thing.

Paying customers have right to complain. I completely disagree with the original post.

My own full time work gets evaluated, lots of anonymous feedback is gathered and some of it is also negative, maybe even down right harsh. Arenanet developers should be able to handle the same. The lack of communication (notice almost zero dev posts in these forums) is also inexcusable and will continue to insult the player base.

The problem of designing is that you need to know your subject material extremely well. You simply cannot make great design by just asking people if your own knowledge on the matter is lacking. Otherwise people who make queries would be the greatest designers of all time, but of course they are not. A great developer tries many ideas, but abandons most of them. Even the greatest designers make mistakes. Bad designers have trouble admitting their mistakes and stick to them, even when it is sure that their ideas didn’t work. The most typical excuse you hear then is “let’s give more time for users to adopt to …”

The big problem of WvWvW is that Arenanet developers simply don’t know the game mode well enough. They also went too far with the changes. A lot of players complained about EotM, Skyhammer etc. What did Arenanet give us, more of that!!!

Let’s compare with Counter Strike, since that is a game I am sure most of you are also familiar with. It has remained extremely popular already for over 15 years. Many of it’s map have remained more or less the same already for over a decade and people still flock to CS! Now imagine if the favorite CS maps would be removed and replaced with an landscape, where it takes a very long time to travel and actually see enemy players and where they would be massive chasms to fall into and have winds to blow you into the chasm. No more dying to enemy bullets, but dying against environment. You would need to defeat simplistic NPCs to activate some shrines which would give you things like ability to take no falling damage, become invisible and so on. CS gamers would be rightfully aggravated and beg to reinstate their old favorite maps and have simpler game mechanisms which favor player-vs-player, not pve. Now same thing is happening in GW2 WvWvW. Players have every right to be angry!

We have had some good things happen in HoT patch:
- faster dolyaks
- sentries which finally make sense
- condition duration food capped to +/- 20 %
- synthesizer nodes
- no money required for upgrades
- removal of ruins of power and bloodlust

But I feel that ALL the other changes were bad and just alienated the core player base.

PS. One thing I actually agree with OP. Balancing and designing WvWvW is the most difficult task in this game as this game mode can be played in so many ways. I really hope Arenanet will hire somebody who knows WvWvW inside and out, lives and breathes this game mode and has a game design background as well (both are essential).

Well, the game is made for players to be played, not for developers to admire. It really does not matter what the developers planned, imagined, thought or dreamed about the game. What matters is if the players like the game and want to play it. What matters is how the game IS, not how it COULD BE.

Perhaps the many-many customers complaining about the game is the sign that your content is really bad and perhaps you are not good at desinging content. Maybe it would be better to let someone else design the game in the future.

Saying that game does not need players is foolish. The game can not exist without the players and when players do not want to play it, they first complain and suggest things to change and improve. When nothing gets improved, players leave and eventually game is shut down.

Maybe the OP gets free gems for each of these garbage posts. It’s the only explanation.

I dont get the point of this discussions, while it is so easy to analyze the situation.

1. Did players warn Developers that they do NOT want another eotm disapointment in WvW?
2. Did players tell A-Net that WvW needs fixings on technical sides first, lag, map cap issue aso?
3. Did we have a WvW CDI where we told them what the problems are?
4. Did A-Net respect our feedback given to them in the CDI’s?
5. Didint wee make it clear enough that a map full with eotm esque mechanics and looks and feel will make players feel like beeing FORCED into eotm esque map and mechanics?
6. After 3 Weeks of brain of grind on mode pve do players come back and enjoy the new eotm 2.0 maps?

7. Will A-Net give a statement tho this fiasco soon?

For me its clear, i was in the German wvw cdi and i could give direct feedback to Mr. Domke. Me and many others told him that eotm was, is and always will be an disappointment and has nothing to do with wvw. Sad that this feedback never got any attention. So for me this game ()only WvW) is dying and at the moment no one at A-Net seems to care. Giving feedback would be the minimum. But for the moment it feels like they do the lets wait and see what happens game.
It feels like a-net is thinking:
“sooner or later we will have broken them and they will accept their new home on the desert bl and finally start playing the EOTM game, Hahahahaha”

Every other day I meet someone who’s in WvW for the first time. I party them and we go on a havoc field trip flipping camps/sentries/towers and defending w/e needs defending. Without fail, they’ve been totally smitten with WvW.

So, we might lose some people who poo-poo the new map, but there’ll be fresh blood to replace them. Unfortunate, but fine by me.

The WvW situation right now is basically this: you have k-train supporters, those who want more fights and some roamers. You have those who care about ppt and those who don’t.

There are 3 types of players that engage in the wvw mode: blobers, roamers and ppt/scouts.
K-train support don’t play wvw, they farm and they are a byproduct of dumb decisions implemented in the wvw game mode. Easy fix to eliminate them is to separate the wvw environment from the pve one by allowing wvw players to sustain themselves by only playing wvw. This could mean armor/weapons only available in wvw like we have for spvp and no loot drops at all, only wvw currency. Basically like spvp has it.
But as you all know arena.net doesn’t know what to do with this game mode so they keep bringing pve elements and force wvw players to grind guild materials for +5 supply. So you have PVE players farming WvW for badges and WvW player farming Karka for mats. Wonderful!!

I could also be very wrong about K-train farmers. Maybe this game mode was all about pawning people with your grinded legendaries and ascended armor and very expensive food buffs. This would mean that the WvW mode is just a tacked-on mode, very little thought put into it, just to get people to pvp on mass. Sure looks like a poorly thought out game mode and getting like 2-3 bug fixes once every 3 months sure helps this ideea a lot. There’s so many issues with wvw right now and they fixed farming of harvest nodes, aka the farming aspect of WvW which is the most important, not to ruin the PVE mode where their focus is 90%, the other 10% is sPvP.

Sviel.7493:

Every other day I meet someone who’s in WvW for the first time. I party them and we go on a havoc field trip flipping camps/sentries/towers and defending w/e needs defending. Without fail, they’ve been totally smitten with WvW.

So, we might lose some people who poo-poo the new map, but there’ll be fresh blood to replace them. Unfortunate, but fine by me.

And then once they discover that most people dislike borders and queue EB or EoTM instead, they will also queue EB or EoTM so that they can play together with other players. There will be no fresh blood to replace anyone.

Not gonna lie but WvW is not a complex gametype and most certainly isn’t hard to fix if you actually pay attention to your community and put the effort in, funny how most other games can achieve a considerably better balance than this company.

Dawdler.8521:

Sviel.7493:

Every other day I meet someone who’s in WvW for the first time. I party them and we go on a havoc field trip flipping camps/sentries/towers and defending w/e needs defending. Without fail, they’ve been totally smitten with WvW.

So, we might lose some people who poo-poo the new map, but there’ll be fresh blood to replace them. Unfortunate, but fine by me.

And then once they discover that most people dislike borders and queue EB or EoTM instead, they will also queue EB or EoTM so that they can play together with other players. There will be no fresh blood to replace anyone.

I feel that is a poor assumption. Many people do not blindly dislike something purely because they discover others dislike it. Many people try things for themselves and make thier own discussions.

@OP : it’s a very good post. You are NOT a white knight, but someone with a brain. Yes, constant negative feedback won’t improve the things. Yes, devs are humans who worked hard on these maps and did an amazing job but it’s obviously not what the players wanted/needed.

Just few remarks :

• There is no answer from devs so far, which isn’t a good thing in such case.
  They could simply say “We are reading the forum, and we know that the new maps have good and not-so-good points. We are gathering your feedback, but please stay constructive.” Is it so hard ?
  To be honest, your post could be a dev post too. It explains very well the current situation

• You said that some players, like you, actually like the new maps. Yes, I believe you. But I’ve been several time on our BLs (almost every evening, before switching to EB) and I’ve never found anyone from my server. It’s not a forum-only problem. A vast majority of the players doesn’t like the new maps, it’s a fact…

• I’m surprised they didn’t see the problems that we are discussing on this forum (size of the map, auto-upgrade, etc..). I mean, it’s not like an invulnerability spot hidden somewhere on the map, or an small unbalance between the 3 factions (the keep of air being easier to defend for example).
  Maybe this map needed more feedback before release ? More betas ? I mean REAL betas, not like the one we had for several weekend just to tease us…

I am ready for all the constructive feedback needed, but in the end does it really matter ?
During the 3 years of WvW, there were tons of useless negative threads I agree, but there were tons of good thread, with good constructive feedback too and after all these good threads we have this map…

coglin.1867:

Dawdler.8521:

Sviel.7493:

Every other day I meet someone who’s in WvW for the first time. I party them and we go on a havoc field trip flipping camps/sentries/towers and defending w/e needs defending. Without fail, they’ve been totally smitten with WvW.

So, we might lose some people who poo-poo the new map, but there’ll be fresh blood to replace them. Unfortunate, but fine by me.

And then once they discover that most people dislike borders and queue EB or EoTM instead, they will also queue EB or EoTM so that they can play together with other players. There will be no fresh blood to replace anyone.

I feel that is a poor assumption. Many people do not blindly dislike something purely because they discover others dislike it. Many people try things for themselves and make thier own discussions.

Assuming new players will love playing on a mostly empty border that WvW players generally dislike is an equally poor assumption, so it balances out.

Catalin.5341:

The WvW situation right now is basically this: you have k-train supporters, those who want more fights and some roamers. You have those who care about ppt and those who don’t.

There are 3 types of players that engage in the wvw mode: blobers, roamers and ppt/scouts.

My fault. Let’s replace k-trains with blobbers. I’m on sfr myself, and I prefer to fight in small organized groups but I think any of those playstyles is 100% legit. Even though blobs don’t have the best reputation. I don’t care if I fight 5v5, 10v10, 30v30 or 80v80 as long as it’s a fair fight. The difference is k-train with 80 guys.
You have to respect the different preferences and give everyone a fair chance to win their way.

Deniara Devious.3948:

Paying customers have right to complain.

My own full time work gets evaluated, lots of anonymous feedback is gathered and some of it is also negative, maybe even down right harsh. Arenanet developers should be able to handle the same.

Yes and no.
You pay for the product you get, not for what you want it to be. If you don’t like it you don’t need to pay for it.
And complaining doesn’t involve personal insults, but constructive feedback.

Your personal story basically desribes the current situation. Do you feel any duty to have a dialogue about the negative feedback? No. You gather it and try to improve it the way your company thinks is the best. And I assume you also don’t share any progress until it’s finished or at least ready to be shown.

Deniara Devious.3948:

The big problem of WvWvW is that Arenanet developers simply don’t know the game mode well enough. They also went too far with the changes. A lot of players complained about EotM, Skyhammer etc. What did Arenanet give us, more of that!!!

Agreed. But it is relatively easily possible to change these small things if they want.

Deniara Devious.3948:

Let’s compare with Counter Strike, Many of it’s map have remained more or less the same already for over a decade and people still flock to CS! Now imagine if the favorite CS maps would be removed and replaced with something different. CS gamers would be rightfully aggravated and beg to reinstate their old favorite maps and have simpler game mechanisms which favor player-vs-player, not pve.

You mean like they destroyed the beautiful GW1 PvP (which existed almost 8 years) for this so called “espoarts” thing that will never happen? I am angry about it, and will always be. But I’m still playing PvP and try to make the best out of it. And I manage to have fun as well. I didn’t fully boycot PvP and made 400 QQ threads in the forums. I told them I don’t like it, how it can be improved in my eyes and at some point it may be heard. But if the majority of players don’t think like that there is hardly something I can do about it. I also liked Courtyard because it had none of those stupid circles.
But I simply don’t see a point in raging around like that. I can try to have fun, if I don’t I give the feedback and if it doesn’t work at all I go and have fun somewhere else. I don’t want to spend all my free time crying about changes instead of simply having fun. Even if it’s in another game.

msalakka.4653:

Maybe the OP gets free gems for each of these garbage posts. It’s the only explanation.

That would be great since I’m always low on money as a WvW player

GROMIT.7829:

Not gonna lie but WvW is not a complex gametype and most certainly isn’t hard to fix if you actually pay attention to your community and put the effort in, funny how most other games can achieve a considerably better balance than this company.

What games are you referring to if I might ask? The only actual game which could be comparable is ESO. And we all know the stories…

So please tell me who does better or where from you know how complex WvW is if there are no real examples out there. Guess why Camelot Unchained takes an eternity to be finished – because it’s an insane amout of time you need to create an almost perfect huge scale PvP mode. Time developers of a casual MMO that are beeing pushed to a release simply don’t have.

Once again: I’m not very happy with WvW overall either. But I give my constructive feedback (which you don’t see on this account) and try to have fun with what is left until something changes. I don’t spend 12hrs per day spamming the same QQ over and over again in this section and threaten to leave Guild Wars 2 for months while still talking here all the time.
And neither would I get even close to the idea of insulting the people who delivered me 3 years and thousands of hours of fun in WvW for far less money than I would have payed for 99.9% of the games out there.

Found this NPC in pve land.. Pretty sure he is talking about upcoming wvw updates

Yes it will be a long journey

Your title seems a little misleading. You say it will be a long journey like it is just starting. Maybe that is why you can write such an optimistic post. For a portion of the wvw, it HAS BEEN a long journey. HoT was looked forward to as a chance to revive wvw. Not a chance to say oh well when we finish with pve we will get around to you. HoT was looked forward to as the end of the journey. At this rate it is turning into a Peter Jackson movie. Lots of half endings that seem to continue on and on so things no one wanted to see can be added on.

Actually I think it is something like a new beginning. Because they finally start working on the important things

I’d say it looked mostly like this: the game released on the 28th August 2012. In the first half year they had to make sure all the existing mechanics are working, created WXP, and fixed culling releasing March 2013. After that they reworked the map with ruins, releasing September 2013. Crossing timescale a bit they created eotm which surely took an insane amout of time, releasing February 2014. And from there on 1 year for the development of the dessert border for the hot announcement early this year and continued beta testing sounds fair. (I’m sure there have been many many alpha versions for new maps)

The new borders is how WvW will be like. Nothing will change about it overall until the next expansion probably. They still need to work on some gimmicks like the PvE events and maybe tweak some things like auto upgrades, but the general WvW will be what we see now.
So after 3 years there isn’t really any more needs for more content (ruins and eotm didn’t work out the best but were a good idea at least), they aren’t beeing pushed by the next expansion and can finally focus on the most complex problems like population balance, nightcap etc.

So yeah, I’m more optimistic than I’ve ever been before in terms of WvW.

I feel like this needs be said.

I appreciate the sentiment but many players come on here to vent frustration as they have no where else to go. Others come on here to try and help improve the game mode. This post reads like players that try to tell other player how to play.

WvW is dying, not just because of the new map but because small WvW guilds have lost all claiming and buff clout, and have to sink ENORMOUS resources into PVE just to get a few scraps of that clout back.

I don’t see how it is even possible for say a 20 person WvW guild to get their War Room upgrades accomplished within a reasonable time frame, and then add in the costs of the upgrades themselves? We are talking thousands and thousands in gold here.

ANet has a built-in restriction that’s similar to those signs posted next to all carnival roller coaster rides.

You must be this tall to ride this ride.

Guilds must be this big to ride WvW.

Edit…

Players can still play…but new BL requires a higher critical mass of players to happen before it triggers the fun…in my opinion.

It’s like having a huge soccer field. There’s an awesome sound & light system going, but all the players are in the stadium bleacher seats…if everybody just got down and starting dancing on the soccer field…it would be an awesome party.

Ok…who wants to go down first & get that party going?

At first…everybody will watch & see…and over time…if the party doesn’t get going…people will start to leave the stadium.

Some will stay and hit the soccer field dance floor every so often…there’s no cover charge once you get in…that’s the good part at least in my opinion.

Edit2…

Don’t misunderstand this post.

I Do Not Support Server Merging as a solution.

This option will destroy many unique & well established WvW Communities that are motivated by server identity & pride.

The Base Map Mechanic’s Match-Up is the flaw that ANet needs to correct for a long term solution that encourages WvW Communities to survive & thrive…in my opinion.

Dawdler.8521:

coglin.1867:

Dawdler.8521:

Sviel.7493:

Every other day I meet someone who’s in WvW for the first time. I party them and we go on a havoc field trip flipping camps/sentries/towers and defending w/e needs defending. Without fail, they’ve been totally smitten with WvW.

So, we might lose some people who poo-poo the new map, but there’ll be fresh blood to replace them. Unfortunate, but fine by me.

And then once they discover that most people dislike borders and queue EB or EoTM instead, they will also queue EB or EoTM so that they can play together with other players. There will be no fresh blood to replace anyone.

I feel that is a poor assumption. Many people do not blindly dislike something purely because they discover others dislike it. Many people try things for themselves and make thier own discussions.

Assuming new players will love playing on a mostly empty border that WvW players generally dislike is an equally poor assumption, so it balances out.

Except I’m not assuming, but stating things that actually happened. Though, to be fair, the borderlands were not empty when I was showing them around, nor are they empty any more than they were on alpine. Lower population for sure, but flat out empty? Nope.

X T D.6458:

Its hypocritical, self contradicting, condescending, self righteous, and insulting threads like these that the community and game doesn’t need, not posts with relevant feedback and frustrations over recent changes that actually affect peoples gaming.

THis.