Guild Wars 2

And be done with it.
Or give the players in bottom tier the option to transfer up for free.

Please for the love of the gods don’t do this

sirflamesword.3896:

Please split the zerg servers and be done with it.
Or give the “top” tier servers the option to transfer to any lower server for free.

MOM STRIKES AGAIN.

btw love that guild name.

Hell….no. T6/7 NA has been the most fun I’ve had in WvW. Not dead, (usually) not ridiculously zergy.

For so long before S2 started, I believed the comments that low tier WvW is dead. I guess it’s dead if your definition of dead is not being able to load into any map and find a 50+ omniblob of morons on a dorito. The funny thing is though, I transferred here from SoS, and there’s more small scale borderland activity than there is in T2…

I don’t know about the very bottom tier in NA and EU though. That’s always been a tier for the recently tanked, and further punished by the crummy ratings system that makes it difficult to climb out.

If you gave the top tier the option to go to the bottom for free, how many would take that option?
So few you wouldn’t notice.
People don’t join hopelessly outnumbered teams, they join the winning teams, the ones with the numbers.

Bo Van Swill.7619:

Please for the love of the gods don’t do this

I would love to hear the reason…

Gravox the Terrible.2157:

If you gave the top tier the option to go to the bottom for free, how many would take that option?
So few you wouldn’t notice.
People don’t join hopelessly outnumbered teams, they join the winning teams, the ones with the numbers.

A lot of players took advantage of the free transfers to lower tiers before S2 started, although the majority did bandwagon on HoD.

If the bottom tier servers got a small number of of free transfers (read, not unlimited), I guarantee roamers, players looking for something different, or maybe a small guild would use them.

In lue of that, the cost of transferring could be more equitable by further stratifying the cost from top to bottom based on ladder rank rather than the fuzzy population metric.

Just break up the top servers. And be done with it.

Jeknar.6184:

Bo Van Swill.7619:

Please for the love of the gods don’t do this

I would love to hear the reason…

There’s a vocal minority in the low tiers that think it’s awesome to have empty borderlands and no off hours coverage.

Even in tier 1 there are usually 1-2 maps with nothing going on. There’s a reason why higher tier servers have more people: more people find it fun when there’s actual enemies to fight.

did the megaserver stuff fix guild unlocks going with the transfer yet? I haven’t actually been paying attention lately but initially the megaserver stuff I thought was going to happen over months then ended up complete after a couple weeks and the guild unlocks transferring to new worlds was going to be in the last batch of things to happen. Anyone know what the status is on that? It might be something that is still keeping a lot of the smaller casual guilds tied to the overpopulated worlds they started out on . . . maybe?

I expect ANET has the numbers and can tell if they should be closing the bottom 3 worlds down or not. I hope now with EotM and the megaserver tech it would be less painful for everyone involved. I certainly don’t feel like there is any PvE reason left to worry about at least. I wouldn’t mind having a few PvE maps be a little less full sometimes but maybe that is just me. As for WvW, hasn’t the communities all suffered so much at this point that there really isn’t that much left to try and preserve? Sad but kind of how it feels lately. Maybe it is time to bite the bullet for the good of the game as a whole for a change.

Blix.8021:

Jeknar.6184:

Bo Van Swill.7619:

Please for the love of the gods don’t do this

I would love to hear the reason…

There’s a vocal minority in the low tiers that think it’s awesome to have empty borderlands and no off hours coverage.

Even in tier 1 there are usually 1-2 maps with nothing going on. There’s a reason why higher tier servers have more people: more people find it fun when there’s actual enemies to fight.

That’s the minority. If Anet caters to that population, wvw will die. There is just too many servers(especially in eu). Population is declining each day and new games continue to come out with Anet ignoring wvw all together. Except for waste of time leagues.

People play on bottom tier servers, because they want to. I’ve played in T3 and i’ve played in T9 and i have to say i much prefer the latter one.

Iavra.8510:

People play on bottom tier servers, because they want to. I’ve played in T3 and i’ve played in T9 and i have to say i much prefer the latter one.

I would love to hear why…

At this point, they need to merge the bottom 6 into the higher servers.

Why?

- Look at Season 2 rewards, it promotes server stacking.

What effect will this have on WvW?

- A large portion of players are going to stack the top 3 servers from here on out, for Season 3 and beyond.

Why?

- So they can actually get a small reward for their time involved in an overly long and broken tournament.

What effect will this have on lower tiers?

- The bottom servers will be even less populated, and just be a blowout free win match.

Look at PvE, its loot rainbows and candy canes all day long, all day every day.

Yet after 9 WEEKS of WvW, only the 5 most populated servers in their league get a small reward, 6th and below gets literally nothing. They can’t even give 1 skin to the less populated servers after 9 weeks, its pathetic.

What’s the incentive? Skill and effort aren’t being rewarded. Super omniblob server stacking zerging mash is rewarded.

Its pathetic, but its true.

thaooo.5320:

At this point, they need to merge the bottom 6 into the higher servers.

Why?

- Look at Season 2 rewards, it promotes server stacking.

What effect will this have on WvW?

- A large portion of players are going to stack the top 3 servers from here on out, for Season 3 and beyond.

Why?

- So they can actually get a small reward for their time involved in an overly long and broken tournament.

What effect will this have on lower tiers?

- The bottom servers will be even less populated, and just be a blowout free win match.

---

Look at PvE, its loot rainbows and candy canes all day long, all day every day.

Yet after 9 WEEKS of WvW, only the 5 most populated servers in their league get a small reward, 6th and below gets literally nothing. They can’t even give 1 skin to the less populated servers after 9 weeks, its pathetic.

What’s the incentive? Skill and effort aren’t being rewarded. Super omniblob server stacking zerging mash is rewarded.

Its pathetic, but its true.

Throughout this whole post you really don’t give a reason why people should be forced into a higher tier server…

Yes some people will transfer up for a better chance and a “good”(lol) reward, but there are other people who play to have fun that won’t transfer up. You can have your zergy blob that is only playing for the rewards, while those of us that play to have fun can play on the lower tiered servers. So what if the servers filled with zerglings can get a free ppt win off of them? Doesn’t mean you can force people to play the way YOU want by merging their server with another. Honestly I feel really sorry for those of you on BG, JQ, and SOS; it’s gotta be a very unfun way to play the game, but you don’t see me forcing my fun play style onto you.

People in low tier servers are there for a reason.
If they were that hung up about population and coverage (what coverage is there to even complain about, they all equally lack coverage) they would have transferred up ages ago.
Those that are there choose to be there and are attached to their communities.
Don’t take that away from them.

sirflamesword.3896:

Throughout this whole post you really don’t give a reason why people should be forced into a higher tier server…

Yes some people will transfer up for a better chance and a “good”(lol) reward, but there are other people who play to have fun that won’t transfer up. You can have your zergy blob that is only playing for the rewards, while those of us that play to have fun can play on the lower tiered servers. So what if the servers filled with zerglings can get a free ppt win off of them? Doesn’t mean you can force people to play the way YOU want by merging their server with another. Honestly I feel really sorry for those of you on BG, JQ, and SOS; it’s gotta be a very unfun way to play the game, but you don’t see me forcing my fun play style onto you.

Do you ever been on bronze dude? I remember having a Matchup with YB while on ET… It was SF/YB/ET... Do you remember how big were our population? Even if SF and ET both tried to push YB, we would just be overwhelmed by far superior numbers…

Now most people consider YB to be a low populated server (Since we’re basing it on the T1 and T2 populations). If YB is low pop, what should we call the servers YB was able to beat by 5x its score? (And I’ll not even mention that ET had another exodus)

Bronze league servers need to go… There is too much empty space that no one will ever fill. I bet that even if we merge each bronze with 1 silver (making 9 servers disapear) we’ll still have a lot of empty spaces (No queues, and prolly outnumbered buff at certain times of the day).

And don’t come with that response of “we play for fun”. Unless you like doing PvDoor or being severely outnumbered by the enemy, because these are the only two options that happen in most matchups, and then I can’t argue with your “fun”.

Deli.1302:

People in low tier servers are there for a reason.
If they were that hung up about population and coverage (what coverage is there to even complain about, they all equally lack coverage) they would have transferred up ages ago.
Those that are there choose to be there and are attached to their communities.
Don’t take that away from them.

And then why these same people keep complaining that they never get competitive matchups? If they like so bad of being roflstomped every single week just because they can hang with their community?

Disband and scatter the stacked server’s population randomly. The bulk of those people (in WvW, anyway) came from the others in the first place. Don’t punish bronze league servers by mashing them together because you can’t imagine zergless play.

ANet, put in a zerg debuff and watch the puffed up servers pay you to move to lesser populated servers. Cash AND the average skill level of WvW players goes up when they can’t band close enough together to 1 1 1 1 1 their way to victory.

The goal of a merge isn’t to make a brand new omegablob server and force anyone to play T1Wars2, rather the experience at the bottom is SO FAR from actual WvW that it really needs a fix. Spending all day soloing supply camps on a borderland isn’t WvW, it is PvE (with fewer waypoints, no heart rewards, no boss spawns, a narrow variety of loot…). There is a medium available, a place where it isn’t All Blob, All The Time 99.Blob FM, yet you still see other players.

@ Sirflamesword and Deli

There’s only so long people will put up with being shafted repeatedly by the company, even the ones ‘enjoying’ tumbleweed central.

I don’t want to take their community and server pride away. ANet does. Season 2 reward failure is just a small step in their obvious plan to break down the morale.

And:

I’m not suggesting a merge with T1-3, there are plenty of servers below them.

And:

T2 NA is all about fights and GvG culture, not PPT blobbing and karma trains, so don’t group NA T2 in with T1 and T3 etc. T2 servers will blob if they are versing a blob server, but won’t actively blob themselves.

Example season 1, SOS v BG v 3rd server.

SoS runs 20 man group, continually wipes 30-40 man BG guild groups (lol 40 man guild group what a joke). BG brings in 2 more guild groups to help them, it now becomes 20 v 60-80. BG wipes the 20 man. SOS says, alright fine, and brings in 2 small guilds, it is now 40-50 v 60-80, and SOS continually wipes BG blob. Oh and don’t forget BG’s map queues on the other 3 maps, while SOS might not even have 1 queued even if they abandoned the other 3 maps entirely.

Where SOS would normally have 3 guilds doing their own guild raids, they had to team up to fight the endless BG blobs. T2 guilds will always beat T1 blobs/guilds as long as the numbers are relatively close. But by no means do they need even numbers or number advantages to win.

Aside from the general pug zerg, which isn’t very big, all of T2 run small groups compared to T1 and T3, they’re just superior fighters.

Jeknar.6184:

Do you ever been on bronze dude? I remember having a Matchup with YB while on ET…

~ snipped for brevity ~

And then why these same people keep complaining that they never get competitive matchups? If they like so bad of being roflstomped every single week just because they can hang with their community?

I know ET is having a tough time of it, you and I have even spoken about it. But we’re not all ET.

This past reset, with the tournament over, I saw more faces (and many unknown names) on than I’ve seen since we had our last big exodus. A few are transfers, but a fair number are PvErs who dipped their toes in during the tournament, and are now playing with a vengeance now that there are no stakes. We’re pretty happy about it.

I have no idea how long this will last, but I’m hoping that some retain their taste for it. It’s actually possible that in two weeks time our Glicko score will pass AR’s and you’ll have them instead of us in T8 for at least a week.

We definitely wouldn’t want a merge. Even if there was no increase in our WvW players I don’t think we’d want a merge, frankly. However, I hope you don’t mind if I say this:

Public Service Announcement: Denizens of upper tier servers! If you’re looking for a server to transfer to with no queue times and less boring zerg play, please consider Eredon Terrace. They seem like good people and plenty of them are very solid players – all they lack is numbers.

We on Ehmry Bay have thoroughly enjoyed our matches with them, and despite a bit of forum trolling we speak well of them on our own forums, by and large. We were worried that when we sank from T4 to T8 there would be no fights to be had, but they (and Kaineng) showed us that wasn’t the case.

The people that ET have left are scarred and grizzled veterans, and with just a few more bodies in their barracks would be vying with us to see who gets to T7 first.

They’ve had transfers in the past who left because there wasn’t enough easy reward – if you want to zerg your way to PPT then this is the wrong tier for you anyway. But if you want a tier and server where your individual efforts make a tangible difference – Eredon Terrace.

Cowards need not apply.

Jeknar.6184:

Bo Van Swill.7619:

Please for the love of the gods don’t do this

I would love to hear the reason…

Well for the simple reason i do not find it fun running in a blob pressing w and 1 a lot is not fun for me at all i like having to work for a win not just blobing over everything.

Again, the T1 Nightmare you describe isn’t the case on the many servers between rock bottom and T2. There is a medium.

I think some people are trying to say that low numbers against low numbers are fine, big numbers against big numbers are fine which is true but the problem is when you face servers that you know that you are outnumbered wherever you go, you will be like…

“I’m here to beat em up”
The reality “I am going to get zerged big time” you would log out in few minutes.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Please-Merge-NA-Tier-3-8-into-Tier-1-2/first

Virtute.8251:

• Rank 6 receives Rank 7-9
• Rank 5 receives Rank 10-12
• Rank 4 receives Rank 13-15
• Rank 3 receives Rank 16-18
• Rank 2 receives Rank 19-21
• Rank 1 receives Rank 22-24

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Nerf-the-domination-of-Coverage/page/5#post3913131

Virtute.8251:

Variable PPT is a silly idea.

6 hour frames is the sweet spot.

…

That doesn’t mean that framing and splitting the matches will not lead to significantly improved balance of matches. It means that the improvement is relative to the fact that we just have too many servers on the board, creating too much distance between relative team populations.

“Small mans” can stop being small men and enjoy a target rich environment with the rest of us around to potentially mess it up.

Blix.8021:

Jeknar.6184:

Bo Van Swill.7619:

Please for the love of the gods don’t do this

I would love to hear the reason…

There’s a vocal minority in the low tiers that think it’s awesome to have empty borderlands and no off hours coverage.

Even in tier 1 there are usually 1-2 maps with nothing going on. There’s a reason why higher tier servers have more people: more people find it fun when there’s actual enemies to fight.

Are you actually in the low tiers? This is only REMOTELY true for t8. T7 and up (and even the top t8 server, whether or not that turns out to be AR or Ebay it doesn’t matter) do have off hour coverage. Darkhaven, for example, hits 40+ zergs during oceanic and sea, during sea we hit 40+ and have a guild of 20+ frequently, on week days. Darkhaven, Devona’s Rest, and Kaineng all have large night crews like this. Ferguson’s Crossing, Ehmry Bay, Anvil Rock, and Gates of Madness all have solid oceanic/sea (GoM has the strongest Oceanic in all of bronze, hitting massive numbers with 1-2 large zergs often, Ehmry bay is passable but can disappear easily though). Eredon Terrace and Sorrow’s Furnace are the only servers with no off oceanic/sea coverage.

Again, idk if you just aren’t a low tier server player, or a day time only person. I’m from Darkhaven, I play all time zones as I have a rotating schedule through the week (particularly, I play a LOT of SEA/EU/NA with some oceanic thrown in). I have fought ALL of these servers over the past 10 weeks, each of them at least once, many of them far more than once. I know what I’m talking about, and will get pictures of it right now if needed (it’s 12:50 AM, I can get pictures over the course of the next few hours if anyone requires me to prove my point).

Zerg penalties are ridiculous. Its saying that a bigger army should lose because its big. That’s completely flies in the face of logic. Only people who live in fantasy land where huge armies of trained from birth storm troopers lose to rodents armed with rocks believe that. Get over it. Drop the ego fueled desire for small fights where _everyone _ will see you for the amazing player you think you are. The 111 argument is completely cooked up. You use all of your skills in a zerg fight that’s even remotely close. If there is such a blob that just 111 and doesn’t use fields and utils and elites please point them out. Free bags are always appreciated!

Jeknar.6184:

Bo Van Swill.7619:

Please for the love of the gods don’t do this

I would love to hear the reason…

1. Not all of us want to be in a larger populated server than we currently are. I like my server’s population, if say ET were added into my server, we’d have far too many people for my tastes.

2. Community. I don’t like the communities of various servers, and same with many people. I don’t like, for example, Sorrow’s Furnace as a general rule. They’re jerks, everyone in bronze knows it, and they prove it every matchup they participate in. Nobody likes them, would you want to fuse with them? A lot of us have similar problems with lower ranked servers.

3. There’s a better solution, scaling transfer costs. That is, t8 = free, t7 = 200 gems, t6 = 500 and so on. These numbers need not be set in stone, but you get the idea.

4. Even if we don’t do anything, what will happen is better than what would happen if we did server merges. To elaborate, servers rise and fall CONSTANTLY. Look at Dh, we were t5, even t4, for a long time. We sank to t7, then rose to be the king of t6 for AGES. Now we’re in t7, will we suddenly never rise again? Look at Devona’s Rest, they were t8 forever, now they’re one of the strongest t6 servers. Look at GoM, t8, now t5 and may go higher. This goes on and on. Servers rise and fall constantly, that’s the beauty of WvW.

5. Finally, it decreases the variety of communities in WvW. I like having many distinct communities. The Community on Ferguson’s Crossing is drastically different from the community on Sorrow’s Furnace for example. FC emphasizes small scale, duels, multiple small guild groups (15-25). SF emphasizes large scale, anything to win, a few massive guild groups (the legendary 40-50 CoSA and LORD blobs). Every single community has some distinct identity like this, and I’m willing to list each one to demonstrate my point if needed.

tl;dr

fite me irl bro

Arius.7031:

Blix.8021:

Jeknar.6184:

Bo Van Swill.7619:

Please for the love of the gods don’t do this

I would love to hear the reason…

There’s a vocal minority in the low tiers that think it’s awesome to have empty borderlands and no off hours coverage.

Even in tier 1 there are usually 1-2 maps with nothing going on. There’s a reason why higher tier servers have more people: more people find it fun when there’s actual enemies to fight.

Are you actually in the low tiers? This is only REMOTELY true for t8. T7 and up (and even the top t8 server, whether or not that turns out to be AR or Ebay it doesn’t matter) do have off hour coverage. Darkhaven, for example, hits 40+ zergs during oceanic and sea, during sea we hit 40+ and have a guild of 20+ frequently, on week days. Darkhaven, Devona’s Rest, and Kaineng all have large night crews like this. Ferguson’s Crossing, Ehmry Bay, Anvil Rock, and Gates of Madness all have solid oceanic/sea (GoM has the strongest Oceanic in all of bronze, hitting massive numbers with 1-2 large zergs often, Ehmry bay is passable but can disappear easily though). Eredon Terrace and Sorrow’s Furnace are the only servers with no off oceanic/sea coverage.

Again, idk if you just aren’t a low tier server player, or a day time only person. I’m from Darkhaven, I play all time zones as I have a rotating schedule through the week (particularly, I play a LOT of SEA/EU/NA with some oceanic thrown in). I have fought ALL of these servers over the past 10 weeks, each of them at least once, many of them far more than once. I know what I’m talking about, and will get pictures of it right now if needed (it’s 12:50 AM, I can get pictures over the course of the next few hours if anyone requires me to prove my point).

Seems like T6 and T7 have more Oceanic than T1 and T2 from what you’re saying. Stop spouting BS. T1 can barely get more than 60 players into WvW during an average weeknight during Oceanic prime. We PvDoor keeps down with 5 players. This is Tier 1 I’m talking about. T2 is even worse, with DB having non-existent forces and Mag fielding maybe 30 on a good night and only SoS fielding a sizable force. SEA is only marginally better, but that’s usually JQ PvDooring down everything in sight.

If T2 can just barely match T6 or T7 for numbers, then why the hell is there such a big gap in “coverage”.

Reverence.6915:

Arius.7031:

Blix.8021:

Jeknar.6184:

Bo Van Swill.7619:

Please for the love of the gods don’t do this

I would love to hear the reason…

There’s a vocal minority in the low tiers that think it’s awesome to have empty borderlands and no off hours coverage.

Even in tier 1 there are usually 1-2 maps with nothing going on. There’s a reason why higher tier servers have more people: more people find it fun when there’s actual enemies to fight.

Are you actually in the low tiers? This is only REMOTELY true for t8. T7 and up (and even the top t8 server, whether or not that turns out to be AR or Ebay it doesn’t matter) do have off hour coverage. Darkhaven, for example, hits 40+ zergs during oceanic and sea, during sea we hit 40+ and have a guild of 20+ frequently, on week days. Darkhaven, Devona’s Rest, and Kaineng all have large night crews like this. Ferguson’s Crossing, Ehmry Bay, Anvil Rock, and Gates of Madness all have solid oceanic/sea (GoM has the strongest Oceanic in all of bronze, hitting massive numbers with 1-2 large zergs often, Ehmry bay is passable but can disappear easily though). Eredon Terrace and Sorrow’s Furnace are the only servers with no off oceanic/sea coverage.

Again, idk if you just aren’t a low tier server player, or a day time only person. I’m from Darkhaven, I play all time zones as I have a rotating schedule through the week (particularly, I play a LOT of SEA/EU/NA with some oceanic thrown in). I have fought ALL of these servers over the past 10 weeks, each of them at least once, many of them far more than once. I know what I’m talking about, and will get pictures of it right now if needed (it’s 12:50 AM, I can get pictures over the course of the next few hours if anyone requires me to prove my point).

Seems like T6 and T7 have more Oceanic than T1 and T2 from what you’re saying. Stop spouting BS. T1 can barely get more than 60 players into WvW during an average weeknight during Oceanic prime. We PvDoor keeps down with 5 players. This is Tier 1 I’m talking about. T2 is even worse, with DB having non-existent forces and Mag fielding maybe 30 on a good night and only SoS fielding a sizable force. SEA is only marginally better, but that’s usually JQ PvDooring down everything in sight.

If T2 can just barely match T6 or T7 for numbers, then why the hell is there such a big gap in “coverage”.

Ugh, today happened to be a slow day unfortunately so my point can’t be adequately demonstrated that we almost always have very large numbers in WvW during oceanic/sea. We’re a server where SEA is our strength, on a week day, in oceanic, we have 20+ currently in our zerg. Check my attached image, pay closer attention to the mini map as this pic was rushed. You should be able to clearly tell that’s 20+, and we have multiple havoc groups (e.g. DM) currently going, as well as home BL defenders/pugs running around randomly.

One huge difference is in organization. Dh doesn’t do great in Oceanic even though we generally outnumber everyone cus we’re just pugs. But, when SEA comes along, we have a large (for our tier/time zone) SEA zerg busting ppt guild that generally catapults us way up on the ppt. Organization is that big of a deal, any server that has it will have a huge advantage in off hours. Another general note is that night crews are notoriously easy to scare off, one wipe diminishes your zerg largely. Thus, if one server has a slight advantage in coverage during this time, you can easily see them scare off their would-be competition.

Ask a bronze league person how many people GoM can have on during their oceanic omega rushes. Ask a bronze league person how many Dh has on during SEA. They might not agree with my exact numbers, but they’ll tell you the same thing, it’s not insignificant.

I would endorse reduce reverse tier transfers. The server that has fallen or been crushed down to tier 8 needs a hand in refitting and reinforcing their population. We experienced multiple exodus’s off of Devonas Rest and ended up in 24th place. We rebuilt the server from the remnant of dedicated players. I wouldn’t trade the people we have on server for any other. Win or lose they have fought by our side, together to climb out of the hole. We don’t need to be number one or the ultimate victor in tier one to enjoy the game. The value in our game play comes from the coordination and teamwork within the community. Sucking the lower tiers up into a higher tier would be just like the mega server with a bunch of people you don’t know filling the map and reducing the effectiveness of the force. Lower cost transfers allow for a new force to move and integrate into the community. If you pull the trigger on a merge there will be major disruption and the elimination of the value of a core community.

Lorelei.3918:

Zerg penalties are ridiculous. Its saying that a bigger army should lose because its big. That’s completely flies in the face of logic. Only people who live in fantasy land where huge armies of trained from birth storm troopers lose to rodents armed with rocks believe that. Get over it. Drop the ego fueled desire for small fights where _everyone _ will see you for the amazing player you think you are. The 111 argument is completely cooked up. You use all of your skills in a zerg fight that’s even remotely close. If there is such a blob that just 111 and doesn’t use fields and utils and elites please point them out. Free bags are always appreciated!

Well, Tyria is a fantasy land.

And it doesn’t fly in the face of logic – people are forever talking about wanting expansions so that there’s something new: playable species, maps, story, new skills, whatever.

Blobbing (which is what zerging really is) is old and boring. I don’t have an ego-fueled desire for small fights, because I don’t advocate small fights. I just think that zerging by and large does the players in a disservice – when I am roaming solo or with one or two others, and we find a group of five or ten so people running from their spawn back to where the zerg action is, and we mop the floor with them… that’s a sign that the zerg has carried them and they aren’t developing as players.

I’m not talking about new players either – when this happens, and it occurs all the time when my server is matched against higher tier ones, these are players of silver rank. It’s clear they’ve been carried for a long time.

If you aren’t carrying condition removal because you’ve never felt a condition because the zerg clears it for you, if you can’t manage to react to what your opponents are doing because all you do is heap fire on them with your forty friends, you’re not a great player.

And this isn’t an elitist rant – I’m saying that zerging is GW2’s version of No Child Left Behind… and has given us a crop of illiterate WvWers. It’s not elitist to want people to be able to read.

A gentle debuff (think along the lines of the opposite of the outnumbered buff) on x players in y area might nudge some of our poorer spellers to play differently. I think it wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world for ANet to experiment with this, and other mixups, between tournaments just to see what happens.

Who knows? Maybe we’ll end up with a different WvW meta. Aren’t you ready for something new and less predictable?

Until then:

Arius.7031:

Reverence.6915:

Arius.7031:

Blix.8021:

Jeknar.6184:

Bo Van Swill.7619:

Please for the love of the gods don’t do this

I would love to hear the reason…

There’s a vocal minority in the low tiers that think it’s awesome to have empty borderlands and no off hours coverage.

Even in tier 1 there are usually 1-2 maps with nothing going on. There’s a reason why higher tier servers have more people: more people find it fun when there’s actual enemies to fight.

Are you actually in the low tiers? This is only REMOTELY true for t8. T7 and up (and even the top t8 server, whether or not that turns out to be AR or Ebay it doesn’t matter) do have off hour coverage. Darkhaven, for example, hits 40+ zergs during oceanic and sea, during sea we hit 40+ and have a guild of 20+ frequently, on week days. Darkhaven, Devona’s Rest, and Kaineng all have large night crews like this. Ferguson’s Crossing, Ehmry Bay, Anvil Rock, and Gates of Madness all have solid oceanic/sea (GoM has the strongest Oceanic in all of bronze, hitting massive numbers with 1-2 large zergs often, Ehmry bay is passable but can disappear easily though). Eredon Terrace and Sorrow’s Furnace are the only servers with no off oceanic/sea coverage.

Again, idk if you just aren’t a low tier server player, or a day time only person. I’m from Darkhaven, I play all time zones as I have a rotating schedule through the week (particularly, I play a LOT of SEA/EU/NA with some oceanic thrown in). I have fought ALL of these servers over the past 10 weeks, each of them at least once, many of them far more than once. I know what I’m talking about, and will get pictures of it right now if needed (it’s 12:50 AM, I can get pictures over the course of the next few hours if anyone requires me to prove my point).

Seems like T6 and T7 have more Oceanic than T1 and T2 from what you’re saying. Stop spouting BS. T1 can barely get more than 60 players into WvW during an average weeknight during Oceanic prime. We PvDoor keeps down with 5 players. This is Tier 1 I’m talking about. T2 is even worse, with DB having non-existent forces and Mag fielding maybe 30 on a good night and only SoS fielding a sizable force. SEA is only marginally better, but that’s usually JQ PvDooring down everything in sight.

If T2 can just barely match T6 or T7 for numbers, then why the hell is there such a big gap in “coverage”.

Ugh, today happened to be a slow day unfortunately so my point can’t be adequately demonstrated that we almost always have very large numbers in WvW during oceanic/sea. We’re a server where SEA is our strength, on a week day, in oceanic, we have 20+ currently in our zerg. Check my attached image, pay closer attention to the mini map as this pic was rushed. You should be able to clearly tell that’s 20+, and we have multiple havoc groups (e.g. DM) currently going, as well as home BL defenders/pugs running around randomly.

One huge difference is in organization. Dh doesn’t do great in Oceanic even though we generally outnumber everyone cus we’re just pugs. But, when SEA comes along, we have a large (for our tier/time zone) SEA zerg busting ppt guild that generally catapults us way up on the ppt. Organization is that big of a deal, any server that has it will have a huge advantage in off hours. Another general note is that night crews are notoriously easy to scare off, one wipe diminishes your zerg largely. Thus, if one server has a slight advantage in coverage during this time, you can easily see them scare off their would-be competition.

Ask a bronze league person how many people GoM can have on during their oceanic omega rushes. Ask a bronze league person how many Dh has on during SEA. They might not agree with my exact numbers, but they’ll tell you the same thing, it’s not insignificant.

If you moved to tier 1 or 2 you would have actual players to fight instead of omega rushing poorly defended low tier keeps. In tier 1-2 oceanic pvding actually has a chance to met with resistance, from defenders or map hopping groups communicating on server TS or whispering commanders on other maps. It’s a completely different (i.e. better) game at the higher tiers. It’s an actual 24 hour war, like it should be. That’s why people come to the higher tiers, and that’s why they stay.

There really is no reason to have 24 NA servers…That was needed at launch, this game has a declining population that is probably about to level off, and that level is not enough people to populate 24 servers….

thaooo.5320:

@ Sirflamesword and Deli

There’s only so long people will put up with being shafted repeatedly by the company, even the ones ‘enjoying’ tumbleweed central.

I don’t want to take their community and server pride away. ANet does. Season 2 reward failure is just a small step in their obvious plan to break down the morale.

And:

I’m not suggesting a merge with T1-3, there are plenty of servers below them.

And:

T2 NA is all about fights and GvG culture, not PPT blobbing and karma trains, so don’t group NA T2 in with T1 and T3 etc. T2 servers will blob if they are versing a blob server, but won’t actively blob themselves.

Example season 1, SOS v BG v 3rd server.

SoS runs 20 man group, continually wipes 30-40 man BG guild groups (lol 40 man guild group what a joke). BG brings in 2 more guild groups to help them, it now becomes 20 v 60-80. BG wipes the 20 man. SOS says, alright fine, and brings in 2 small guilds, it is now 40-50 v 60-80, and SOS continually wipes BG blob. Oh and don’t forget BG’s map queues on the other 3 maps, while SOS might not even have 1 queued even if they abandoned the other 3 maps entirely.

Where SOS would normally have 3 guilds doing their own guild raids, they had to team up to fight the endless BG blobs. T2 guilds will always beat T1 blobs/guilds as long as the numbers are relatively close. But by no means do they need even numbers or number advantages to win.

Aside from the general pug zerg, which isn’t very big, all of T2 run small groups compared to T1 and T3, they’re just superior fighters.

This is actually not true.
Db is a fairweather server and sos t1 blobs the heck out of everything. Mag is the gvg server there.

Blix.8021:

Arius.7031:

Reverence.6915:

Arius.7031:

Blix.8021:

Jeknar.6184:

Bo Van Swill.7619:

Please for the love of the gods don’t do this

I would love to hear the reason…

There’s a vocal minority in the low tiers that think it’s awesome to have empty borderlands and no off hours coverage.

Even in tier 1 there are usually 1-2 maps with nothing going on. There’s a reason why higher tier servers have more people: more people find it fun when there’s actual enemies to fight.

Are you actually in the low tiers? This is only REMOTELY true for t8. T7 and up (and even the top t8 server, whether or not that turns out to be AR or Ebay it doesn’t matter) do have off hour coverage. Darkhaven, for example, hits 40+ zergs during oceanic and sea, during sea we hit 40+ and have a guild of 20+ frequently, on week days. Darkhaven, Devona’s Rest, and Kaineng all have large night crews like this. Ferguson’s Crossing, Ehmry Bay, Anvil Rock, and Gates of Madness all have solid oceanic/sea (GoM has the strongest Oceanic in all of bronze, hitting massive numbers with 1-2 large zergs often, Ehmry bay is passable but can disappear easily though). Eredon Terrace and Sorrow’s Furnace are the only servers with no off oceanic/sea coverage.

Again, idk if you just aren’t a low tier server player, or a day time only person. I’m from Darkhaven, I play all time zones as I have a rotating schedule through the week (particularly, I play a LOT of SEA/EU/NA with some oceanic thrown in). I have fought ALL of these servers over the past 10 weeks, each of them at least once, many of them far more than once. I know what I’m talking about, and will get pictures of it right now if needed (it’s 12:50 AM, I can get pictures over the course of the next few hours if anyone requires me to prove my point).

Seems like T6 and T7 have more Oceanic than T1 and T2 from what you’re saying. Stop spouting BS. T1 can barely get more than 60 players into WvW during an average weeknight during Oceanic prime. We PvDoor keeps down with 5 players. This is Tier 1 I’m talking about. T2 is even worse, with DB having non-existent forces and Mag fielding maybe 30 on a good night and only SoS fielding a sizable force. SEA is only marginally better, but that’s usually JQ PvDooring down everything in sight.

If T2 can just barely match T6 or T7 for numbers, then why the hell is there such a big gap in “coverage”.

Ugh, today happened to be a slow day unfortunately so my point can’t be adequately demonstrated that we almost always have very large numbers in WvW during oceanic/sea. We’re a server where SEA is our strength, on a week day, in oceanic, we have 20+ currently in our zerg. Check my attached image, pay closer attention to the mini map as this pic was rushed. You should be able to clearly tell that’s 20+, and we have multiple havoc groups (e.g. DM) currently going, as well as home BL defenders/pugs running around randomly.

One huge difference is in organization. Dh doesn’t do great in Oceanic even though we generally outnumber everyone cus we’re just pugs. But, when SEA comes along, we have a large (for our tier/time zone) SEA zerg busting ppt guild that generally catapults us way up on the ppt. Organization is that big of a deal, any server that has it will have a huge advantage in off hours. Another general note is that night crews are notoriously easy to scare off, one wipe diminishes your zerg largely. Thus, if one server has a slight advantage in coverage during this time, you can easily see them scare off their would-be competition.

Ask a bronze league person how many people GoM can have on during their oceanic omega rushes. Ask a bronze league person how many Dh has on during SEA. They might not agree with my exact numbers, but they’ll tell you the same thing, it’s not insignificant.

If you moved to tier 1 or 2 you would have actual players to fight instead of omega rushing poorly defended low tier keeps. In tier 1-2 oceanic pvding actually has a chance to met with resistance, from defenders or map hopping groups communicating on server TS or whispering commanders on other maps. It’s a completely different (i.e. better) game at the higher tiers. It’s an actual 24 hour war, like it should be. That’s why people come to the higher tiers, and that’s why they stay.

That’s just, like, your opinion man.

Everyone likes different stuff. Some like the major warfare of high-tier servers. Others suffer through the blobs there because they get fights.

Some like small-scale stuff.

Some just don’t want to move servers.

Stop trying to make other people play how you want.

I find it funny that you people say you would hate having your server merged with another because you don’t want the people from these other servers with you. What would you do if these people trasferred to your server then? Would you leave it? No, I know you wouldn’t (you would need to be a cyber-xenophobic idiot to do so)… You problably would find a way to either avoid them (by constantly avoiding the map where these people are) or you would try make up with them.

Also, stop talking like if a merge would make everyone from your server disapear… They would be there, but there would be more people too. Don’t you welcome new transfers to your server? Why you would hate people from other servers then when actually that’s what transfers are?

And Arius, please stop…. You know there are only 3 servers in bronze that have a reasonable all-round coverage (GoM, DR and DH) and even these have holes which people could pretty much fill. Omega rushing empty keeps isn’t fighting. As I’m posting your server have 450ppt and is already almost 30k ahead of the 2nd. How can you come here and say SoR and EBay have coverage to fight your server?

Someone once posted on these forums:

• High ppt means no enemies = PvDoor empty towers/keeps
• Low ppt means no allies = Severely outnumbered
• Balanced ppt means, well, balance = Enemies to fight while having allies

All they really need to do is put a cap on the max players the servers can hold.
For example:

Server1 has 30k players (8k players have logged in the past 30 days)

Put a cap on the server where max is 9k.
Any accounts that do not log in the game for 30 days, automatically are forced to pick a server again after their inactivity.
When these players log back in, they will find that Server1 was full and they will have to pick a new server – this will spread the population to other servers and also will prevent additional players from stacking the number 1 server.

Jeknar.6184:

I find it funny that you people say you would hate having your server merged with another because you don’t want the people from these other servers with you. What would you do if these people trasferred to your server then? Would you leave it? No, I know you wouldn’t (you would need to be a cyber-xenophobic idiot to do so)… You problably would find a way to either avoid them (by constantly avoiding the map where these people are) or you would try make up with them.

Also, stop talking like if a merge would make everyone from your server disapear… They would be there, but there would be more people too. Don’t you welcome new transfers to your server? Why you would hate people from other servers then when actually that’s what transfers are?

And Arius, please stop…. You know there are only 3 servers in bronze that have a reasonable all-round coverage (GoM, DR and DH) and even these have holes which people could pretty much fill. Omega rushing empty keeps isn’t fighting. As I’m posting your server have 450ppt and is already almost 30k ahead of the 2nd. How can you come here and say SoR and EBay have coverage to fight your server?

Someone once posted on these forums:

• High ppt means no enemies = PvDoor empty towers/keeps
• Low ppt means no allies = Severely outnumbered
• Balanced ppt means, well, balance = Enemies to fight while having allies

It’s true, DH far outnumber us. SoR also has more people, but they seem to be playing for second place rather than pushing for first.

And both of these zergmonkeys spend way too much time on our BL instead of each others lol

But Jeknar, EB is still enjoying this matchup. We really are. We are under no illusions that we’re going to win, but it’s a nice change of pace. Plus, there’s no consequences for the results, so we can ignore PPT and, when we find 10-15 of these guys separated from their blobs, we can chew them up like they’re food for people who’ve just had their tonsils out.

Also, they fall for the kind of feints that ET and Kaineng never would – it’s hilarious watching them form up for, and then chase, a lone player. The times we’ve moved their zergs off course for our own benefit would astound you.

There’s fun to be had, hopefully for all of the servers involved. It would be interesting to see if Dork Shaven feels that they could relax and experiment with something other than overwhelming numbers, just to see what they can take back to T7 and surprise the status quo with, though.

But don’t worry, DH and SoL – EB will eventually supplant AR and we’ll teach you these things.

/pipingbluster

On a tier 7 server, I had over 150 in the server TS, plus a decent sized guild running in raidcall on reset this week. If we were to merge with another server, how many of us are going to get locked out in queues on the weekend? We queued 2 maps, and I would expect that any 2 servers from the lowest tier would still queue all 4 maps for several hours at NA prime time during the weekend. When I was in T1, if I wanted to play on the weekend, the queues would be long, sometimes hours, during NA primetime. If we got merged, my choices at reset are to jam my buttons and hope I get in fast enough, or go play another game on friday nights. I can tell you quickly I would stop jamming buttons to try and get in, and just play another game.

sscripko.5387:

On a tier 7 server, I had over 150 in the server TS, plus a decent sized guild running in raidcall on reset this week. If we were to merge with another server, how many of us are going to get locked out in queues on the weekend? We queued 2 maps, and I would expect that any 2 servers from the lowest tier would still queue all 4 maps for several hours at NA prime time during the weekend. When I was in T1, if I wanted to play on the weekend, the queues would be long, sometimes hours, during NA primetime. If we got merged, my choices at reset are to jam my buttons and hope I get in fast enough, or go play another game on friday nights. I can tell you quickly I would stop jamming buttons to try and get in, and just play another game.

we don’t even have queues in tier 1 after friday night anymore.

There are only two options I would ever consider:
1. Reduced transfer fees. Not by the tier, but by the rank. Rank 24 = Free, Rank 23 = 200 Gems, Rank 22 = 400 Gems. Something like that.

2. A complete server merge. I can only speak for myself, but I will not leave my ET family. I. Will. Not. Leave. My. ET. Family. With that being said, merging us into another lowish population server will allow the entire family to stay together and I think (hope?) we would not lose our entire sense of identity/community since we’ll all still be together. To draw an “IRL” parallel, it would be like an American woman marrying a Japanese man and then both extended families getting together for a holiday. Two very different cultures, but blended together as one bigger family with many traditions that everyone can enjoy.

People questioning why you want to be in a bronze league server need to realize that at peak times these servers have healthy populations, but aren’t crazy zergy, and they generally don’t have many servers with crazy off hour coverage wars.

It’s not 3 guys on a borderland map chasing each other around.

Roe.3679:

It’s not 3 guys on a borderland map chasing each other around.

Although you DO sometimes get the endless circle of you flipping camps, and them being three camps behind you flipping them back. You could run like that for hours if you don’t change it up.

So, you ambush them then party with them to talk about whatever while you go about your WvW business.

Roe.3679:

People questioning why you want to be in a bronze league server need to realize that at peak times these servers have healthy populations, but aren’t crazy zergy, and they generally don’t have many servers with crazy off hour coverage wars.

It’s not 3 guys on a borderland map chasing each other around.

2 maps with constant outnumbered buff doesn’t sound healthy to me…

Honestly, the time I have the most fun is when I am the only driver on our 4 maps, normally you have 25-35 following you, a few scouts, and you know that the opposing sides also generally have 1 driver, a few scouts, and 25-35 in the maps. You are playing a huge game of Risk, guessing where they are going to go next, trading a paper tower while you go take down a waypointed keep, hoping you can get through it before they realize that you are taking a waypoint. Even if the zerg agrees that PPT is important, you are playing a constant math game of how many people are going to leave because the action is not/enough/no ktrain/no openfield, how many are going to come on because you are making a push to eliminate enemy waypoints, and how many you can get into TS and possibly take turns as a scout.

I think the 4-map strategy is harder and more rewarding in the lower tiers than it was when I was in T1. I wouldn’t go back to T1, in fact the only reason I might jump off my server is if we were back in that QQ potatohole.

Roe.3679:

People questioning why you want to be in a bronze league server need to realize that at peak times these servers have healthy populations, but aren’t crazy zergy, and they generally don’t have many servers with crazy off hour coverage wars.

It’s not 3 guys on a borderland map chasing each other around.

You just described BPBL last night. Was just me and one thief from BP and a engineer from YB, flipping and re-flipping camps. We had all our BL, and there was noone from any of the other servers trying to take any of it, except for that lonely engineer.

All 10 people not wanting them merged will all be fighting each other (and no one else) in a year or so….

Well from what i have seen from the silver servers so far i am glad i am in bronze Spawn camping with siege from our own keep and when one of them does come out they run back in as soon as its going bad for them. Every bronze server be proud of your place getting higher up just makes you zerg happy cowards.