Guild Wars 2

Jeknar.6184:

7am server time… We’re on ocx prime right now if i’m not mistaken. Look on my minimap how many green dots we have on our only keep. Not even the Kaineng zerg is impressive (10-15ish maybe?)

Also, the camps on AR BL were taken by 1 person, that never got interrupted (which lead me to belive that there is no AR on that map).

Super healthy isn’t?

I feel your pain – I woke up and had a look at the scores today (Wednesday morning, 0600 when I looked) and Ehmry Bay was ticking at +15. DH had thought that our BL would look better in blue, so as to match our eyes. But we always forget to pick up Visene, so we’re going back to red.

Regardless of what tier you’re in, WvW population and overall coverage (determined by population) is what is the deciding factor (but not the only one) in who wins.

So what happens? After this week the matchups go back to being determined by our server rating, and we get the servers that are closest to our own again. While it won’t be perfectly even, you won’t get the AR hordes karma-training the BLs.

The week after, if our rating keeps going up and AR’s keeps dropping? Maybe they’ll be back. ET and Kaineng will have to work together to blunt AR’s numbers, and EB will hone its skill at squirreling DH and SoL zergs in interesting directions.

It’ll be fine.

Porter.2830:

Merge Ehmry into SoS so Rimmy and Grav can come here plis. (It’s actually quite fun 82.5% of the time…)

(Bonus: There are Red Pancakes and sirrup.)

Well well well, look at who’s posting!

Instead, why not come here where we also have pancakes (in a variety of colours), the finest syrup this side of a mythological syrup-source, AND no lineups.

Or just wait – when we get another 850 or so points on our rating, we’ll come to you and have a big Red Wedding style fry-up. It’ll be great!

Jim Hunter.6821:

Arius.7031:

Reverence.6915:

Arius.7031:

Reverence claims only 50 BG players are on during oceanic. How does he even know that? Do all guilds run tagged? Do all havoc squads report their numbers? I have a feeling be means to say 50+ players in eb and home bl or something… but bg/jq/tc are constantly capping each other’s bls in oceanic/sea. As I look at gw2score right now, I see TC recently retook 2 keeps in their bl from BG, JQ owns 2 keeps in BG BL, and BG owns 1 keep in JQ BL. And BG only has 50 people on in total right now? Don’t buy it. Don’t buy it at all.

This is the other big difference – organisation.
At the time of my last post, we had a main zerg of around 25-30 and two 5 man groups. Give an upper estimation of those not in teamspeak, and you get 50. Tagged or untagged doensn’t matter. We know they’re there.

An undefended keep can be taken by 3 people (least amount of people I’ve successfully done it with). How many things get flipped really isn’t an indication of numbers on a borderland.

Lol you need to come to low tier. 2 manning a keep is easy if both players are competent.

Anyways, okay, fine. That’s a side topic regardless. You’re right, there is a big difference, organization. That’s why Darkhaven couldn’t survive against you in sea/oceanic, or even CD. We’re pugs, bad ones at that, we’d get rolled and quit almost immediately. However, if you REALLY only have 50 people on, we’re not far behind in player count (as I speak, 20 man main zerg, 1 havoc group of 6, multiple roamers, and bl defenders which I do not know the exact count of, but at least 5).

I’ve actually soloed several keeps. I just usually wait until our zerg is attacking hills or bay to keep everyone distracted. Although it is fun to take them without the distraction as long as they don’t have waypoints built in hills or bay, I usually get to kill 1 or 2 people at a time that come running to defend.

If I wanted to blob I would transfer, I like roaming solo or in a small group and killing other roamers. I like taking an enemy keep or camp, sieging it up and farming people.

I couldn’t care less about PPT or crappy rewards. I’m on AR and we come for the fight.

You’re better than me. I have the sustain on my guard, but not really the dps to solo the keep in anything less than half an hour rofl. My ele is really risky, I can solo if it if everything goes right but it never does with bad timings on weakness/stuns from the adds etc… :/

Arius.7031:

Blix.8021:

Take a look at this, in particular, the Borderland Focus section.

Tier 1: http://www.gw2score.com/server/Blackgate
Tier 4: http://www.gw2score.com/server/Isle-of-Janthir
Tier 8: http://www.gw2score.com/server/Eredon-Terrace

Notice how blackgate’s differs from the lower tiers? See how little % of low tier ppt comes from enemy borderlands, while for BG it’s a substantial? It’s because they don’t have a healthy enough population to have presence on all 4 maps, so people congregate on their home BL and EB. Which means enemy servers are also not invading THEIR bl, which means less wvw action all around. In tier 1, people actually take and hold keeps in enemy BLs, upgrade them to waypoints, and have people map hop to save them.

The fact of the matter is, for your casual or new player, it IS important to have people on all the time in WvW, on multiple maps. Imagine buying GW2 and your first impression of it is the 1 person on the map flipping camps telling you “yeah we can’t play real wvw now because server x has a 15 man australian guild and we don’t.” You’d probably never log in again, you would definitely not pay anet the ridiculous transfer fee to a non dead realm, because you would have no frame of reference for wvw being any actual fun. People log in, see if there are people to play with, and if not, they log out. That’s just how it works. It wasn’t an issue at launch, because there were people on all the realms. It is an issue now.

I actually agreed with you up until your last paragraph. I think you draw an incorrect conclusion. Having players on ALL maps is relatively unimportant, any noob knows if one map is empty to check the others. As you say, people congregate in EB and home bl in lower tiers. This gives generally quite substantial populations in these 2 maps. I don’t think this is any problem whatsoever, and this explains why even lower population servers tend to have a zerg going in at least one map 90% of the day (ET and SF are the only strong, noticeable exceptions to this, who both 99% up and vanish at oceanic/sea generally).

This is a great post by Blix and one that I think gets to the crux of the issue for those that like larger scale fights.

The point is that when the servers in a match are concentrated in BG and their Home BL there are less fights. I think that’s indisputable.

If you take the site he listed (great site btw, thanks) and look at the IoJ/BP/Yaks matchup – they all focus on BG and their home BL. And so when a casual player – or even a regular WvW’er – logs on and sees maps that look like that there’s really only one choice to go for consistent fights – and that’s EB.

And when EB gets queued some either just PvE until EB pops or even log off. I know I’ve done that.

But in the T1 match there’s action on every map. Not just EB. So a player logging in to check out the situation has more choices, more places to find fights.

Johje Holan.4607:

Arius.7031:

Blix.8021:

Take a look at this, in particular, the Borderland Focus section.

Tier 1: http://www.gw2score.com/server/Blackgate
Tier 4: http://www.gw2score.com/server/Isle-of-Janthir
Tier 8: http://www.gw2score.com/server/Eredon-Terrace

Notice how blackgate’s differs from the lower tiers? See how little % of low tier ppt comes from enemy borderlands, while for BG it’s a substantial? It’s because they don’t have a healthy enough population to have presence on all 4 maps, so people congregate on their home BL and EB. Which means enemy servers are also not invading THEIR bl, which means less wvw action all around. In tier 1, people actually take and hold keeps in enemy BLs, upgrade them to waypoints, and have people map hop to save them.

The fact of the matter is, for your casual or new player, it IS important to have people on all the time in WvW, on multiple maps. Imagine buying GW2 and your first impression of it is the 1 person on the map flipping camps telling you “yeah we can’t play real wvw now because server x has a 15 man australian guild and we don’t.” You’d probably never log in again, you would definitely not pay anet the ridiculous transfer fee to a non dead realm, because you would have no frame of reference for wvw being any actual fun. People log in, see if there are people to play with, and if not, they log out. That’s just how it works. It wasn’t an issue at launch, because there were people on all the realms. It is an issue now.

I actually agreed with you up until your last paragraph. I think you draw an incorrect conclusion. Having players on ALL maps is relatively unimportant, any noob knows if one map is empty to check the others. As you say, people congregate in EB and home bl in lower tiers. This gives generally quite substantial populations in these 2 maps. I don’t think this is any problem whatsoever, and this explains why even lower population servers tend to have a zerg going in at least one map 90% of the day (ET and SF are the only strong, noticeable exceptions to this, who both 99% up and vanish at oceanic/sea generally).

This is a great post by Blix and one that I think gets to the crux of the issue for those that like larger scale fights.

The point is that when the servers in a match are concentrated in BG and their Home BL there are less fights. I think that’s indisputable.

If you take the site he listed (great site btw, thanks) and look at the IoJ/BP/Yaks matchup – they all focus on BG and their home BL. And so when a casual player – or even a regular WvW’er – logs on and sees maps that look like that there’s really only one choice to go for consistent fights – and that’s EB.

And when EB gets queued some either just PvE until EB pops or even log off. I know I’ve done that.

But in the T1 match there’s action on every map. Not just EB. So a player logging in to check out the situation has more choices, more places to find fights.

But here’s the thing, a player only has the opportunity to be in one fight at a time. So, say I’m logging into get some action. Say there are two scenarios, in one scenario, there’s guaranteed action in EB. In another scenario, there’s guaranteed action in every borderland. If I am looking for large scale action, in both scenarios I have the option to get it if I want it. If I’m getting action in the map I’m in, it does not matter if there is action in other maps. If I can get my fights in EB, I can go to EB to get fights. It doesn’t matter if there are fights elsewhere, because if I’m fighting in one place, knowing there are fights in other places doesn’t enhance my experience. If I’m there for the fights, I have that option on either scenario.

Further, even if you argue that “well, you’re right, you may be able to get action regardless, but having more options is still better!” I can quickly reply that your option also has an inherent downside. That is, with every single BL having significant forces (ie zergs), there is no room for super small scale ninjaing. If you haven’t experienced the thrill of very, very small scale ninja ops (ie 2 manning a keep/tower) then you’re missing a really fun aspect of WvW. It may not be for you, but a lot of us actually like that.

At best this is a minor point in favor of your side, and it does have its faults as well. I don’t think, however, this is quite as critical an issue as people are making it out to be. I know that any time I log in, I can go to EB (or wherever the main zerg happens to be, because contrary to popular beliefs about t6-8 on the forums, we don’t always stay in EB lol) and I will get large scale fights (40+ generally speaking). IDC if there’s a fight going on in an enemy BL as well, because I’m getting my fights in EB.

Rimmy.9217:

I feel your pain – I woke up and had a look at the scores today (Wednesday morning, 0600 when I looked) and Ehmry Bay was ticking at +15. DH had thought that our BL would look better in blue, so as to match our eyes. But we always forget to pick up Visene, so we’re going back to red.

Regardless of what tier you’re in, WvW population and overall coverage (determined by population) is what is the deciding factor (but not the only one) in who wins.

So what happens? After this week the matchups go back to being determined by our server rating, and we get the servers that are closest to our own again. While it won’t be perfectly even, you won’t get the AR hordes karma-training the BLs.

The week after, if our rating keeps going up and AR’s keeps dropping? Maybe they’ll be back. ET and Kaineng will have to work together to blunt AR’s numbers, and EB will hone its skill at squirreling DH and SoL zergs in interesting directions.

It’ll be fine.

Dude… Red is Kaineng, not AR… They are taking the entire place with 15 people simply because there is no one to stop them (Neither ET nor AR). And if you check on the live map for how much time every objective was owned, you’ll see that the highest timers are 7h, which was the time when Kaineng was able to take everything with the exception of AR garrison (Kaineng even had a tick of 620ppt this night). Getting EBay won’t change much… We’ll have EBay zerging us at day, and Kaineng zerging us at night, pretty much like this matchup.

The paper keep I posted on my screenshot was taken by us with 4 people where 1 was a uplevel who said that he was new to the game… When he asked “Where is my team?” I almost said him to delete his character and get a free transfer elsewhere because any hopes that he will find a good wvw experience in his timezone in ET are null. He’s lucky he logged out before our group got rolled by the 15man Kaineng group which ended with the other 2 logging out and me being the only one that remained in the map.

Arius.7031:

I actually agreed with you up until your last paragraph. I think you draw an incorrect conclusion. Having players on ALL maps is relatively unimportant, any noob knows if one map is empty to check the others. As you say, people congregate in EB and home bl in lower tiers. This gives generally quite substantial populations in these 2 maps. I don’t think this is any problem whatsoever, and this explains why even lower population servers tend to have a zerg going in at least one map 90% of the day (ET and SF are the only strong, noticeable exceptions to this, who both 99% up and vanish at oceanic/sea generally).

If everyone is on it’s home BL and EB, what is the only map where will be fighting? Having only 1 of the 4 maps with fights doesn’t sound right. And even if you say “Oh but when there is no action on home BL these people will move to another BL”, then you get a empty map, which doesn’t sound right too.

Also, you say “How can be super ninja stuff if there is action on all maps?”. Well, people ninja stuff while the main enemy zerg is occupied with the main allied zerg on the map (At least that’s what I saw while I was on BG and Maguuma). Taking stuff in deserted maps isn’t ninja, it’s just “uninterrupted PvDoor” because, unless you try a WP’ed keep, no one will ever know you are there (Since they are on other maps).

Arius.7031:

Johje Holan.4607:

Arius.7031:

Blix.8021:

Take a look at this, in particular, the Borderland Focus section.

Tier 1: http://www.gw2score.com/server/Blackgate
Tier 4: http://www.gw2score.com/server/Isle-of-Janthir
Tier 8: http://www.gw2score.com/server/Eredon-Terrace

Notice how blackgate’s differs from the lower tiers? See how little % of low tier ppt comes from enemy borderlands, while for BG it’s a substantial? It’s because they don’t have a healthy enough population to have presence on all 4 maps, so people congregate on their home BL and EB. Which means enemy servers are also not invading THEIR bl, which means less wvw action all around. In tier 1, people actually take and hold keeps in enemy BLs, upgrade them to waypoints, and have people map hop to save them.

The fact of the matter is, for your casual or new player, it IS important to have people on all the time in WvW, on multiple maps. Imagine buying GW2 and your first impression of it is the 1 person on the map flipping camps telling you “yeah we can’t play real wvw now because server x has a 15 man australian guild and we don’t.” You’d probably never log in again, you would definitely not pay anet the ridiculous transfer fee to a non dead realm, because you would have no frame of reference for wvw being any actual fun. People log in, see if there are people to play with, and if not, they log out. That’s just how it works. It wasn’t an issue at launch, because there were people on all the realms. It is an issue now.

I actually agreed with you up until your last paragraph. I think you draw an incorrect conclusion. Having players on ALL maps is relatively unimportant, any noob knows if one map is empty to check the others. As you say, people congregate in EB and home bl in lower tiers. This gives generally quite substantial populations in these 2 maps. I don’t think this is any problem whatsoever, and this explains why even lower population servers tend to have a zerg going in at least one map 90% of the day (ET and SF are the only strong, noticeable exceptions to this, who both 99% up and vanish at oceanic/sea generally).

This is a great post by Blix and one that I think gets to the crux of the issue for those that like larger scale fights.

The point is that when the servers in a match are concentrated in BG and their Home BL there are less fights. I think that’s indisputable.

If you take the site he listed (great site btw, thanks) and look at the IoJ/BP/Yaks matchup – they all focus on BG and their home BL. And so when a casual player – or even a regular WvW’er – logs on and sees maps that look like that there’s really only one choice to go for consistent fights – and that’s EB.

And when EB gets queued some either just PvE until EB pops or even log off. I know I’ve done that.

But in the T1 match there’s action on every map. Not just EB. So a player logging in to check out the situation has more choices, more places to find fights.

Further, even if you argue that “well, you’re right, you may be able to get action regardless, but having more options is still better!” I can quickly reply that your option also has an inherent downside. That is, with every single BL having significant forces (ie zergs), there is no room for super small scale ninjaing. If you haven’t experienced the thrill of very, very small scale ninja ops (ie 2 manning a keep/tower) then you’re missing a really fun aspect of WvW. It may not be for you, but a lot of us actually like that.

At best this is a minor point in favor of your side, and it does have its faults as well. I don’t think, however, this is quite as critical an issue as people are making it out to be. I know that any time I log in, I can go to EB (or wherever the main zerg happens to be, because contrary to popular beliefs about t6-8 on the forums, we don’t always stay in EB lol) and I will get large scale fights (40+ generally speaking). IDC if there’s a fight going on in an enemy BL as well, because I’m getting my fights in EB.

No offence, but 2-manning a tower/keep is hardly pvp or WvW.
It’s PvE. You’re not playing against anyone.
By saying you enjoy it, just means you no interest in playing large-scale pvp.
So… one guy on the ram, one guy kills guard respawns? Invigorating.
This isn’t the intent of WvW. Sure there will be down times on a lot of servers where stuff like this is possible. But gameplay like this at all hours outside of NA prime isn’t sustainable long term.
9 to 12 servers would probably be sufficient at this point in the game’s life cycle.
Outside week 1 or 2 of a tournament, there would be no issues with queues having 9 or 12 servers.

Jeknar.6184:

Rimmy.9217:

I feel your pain – I woke up and had a look at the scores today (Wednesday morning, 0600 when I looked) and Ehmry Bay was ticking at +15. DH had thought that our BL would look better in blue, so as to match our eyes. But we always forget to pick up Visene, so we’re going back to red.

Regardless of what tier you’re in, WvW population and overall coverage (determined by population) is what is the deciding factor (but not the only one) in who wins.

So what happens? After this week the matchups go back to being determined by our server rating, and we get the servers that are closest to our own again. While it won’t be perfectly even, you won’t get the AR hordes karma-training the BLs.

The week after, if our rating keeps going up and AR’s keeps dropping? Maybe they’ll be back. ET and Kaineng will have to work together to blunt AR’s numbers, and EB will hone its skill at squirreling DH and SoL zergs in interesting directions.

It’ll be fine.

Dude… Red is Kaineng, not AR… They are taking the entire place with 15 people simply because there is no one to stop them (Neither ET nor AR). And if you check on the live map for how much time every objective was owned, you’ll see that the highest timers are 7h, which was the time when Kaineng was able to take everything with the exception of AR garrison (Kaineng even had a tick of 620ppt this night). Getting EBay won’t change much… We’ll have EBay zerging us at day, and Kaineng zerging us at night, pretty much like this matchup.

Dude, I was talking about MY server (as we’re red) and comparing that both of our servers got flipped overnight.

And if you have us hitting you during the day, then you’ll be in second place anyway – we prefer to not focus on the third place server. Rule of thumb btw, not law, in case you have a screenshot with us hitting someone in third place. :P

Jeknar.6184:

Also, you say “How can be super ninja stuff if there is action on all maps?”. Well, people ninja stuff while the main enemy zerg is occupied with the main allied zerg on the map (At least that’s what I saw while I was on BG and Maguuma). Taking stuff in deserted maps isn’t ninja, it’s just “uninterrupted PvDoor” because, unless you try a WP’ed keep, no one will ever know you are there (Since they are on other maps).

When there is none of my colour on a map and I decide to go there, I get the outnumbered buff. If a party’s worth of my servermates join me, we still often have the outnumbered buff. Yes, ever on ET BL. The maps aren’t empty.

And when we flip a couple of camps or a tower, more of you come in because either you noticed the colour change or your minders tipped you off. Happens all the time.

The only thing we don’t have at this tier is the ability to run large groups on all the maps simultaneously. And that’s fine by me.

I don’t get what you want Jeknar, truly. Do you want ET merged with some other server? I know you’re not happy with the state of ET’s WvW scene right now, but I also know that your WvW players didn’t want to focus AR with us when they were k-training both of us. So what do you want here?

A day in the life of a top tier player...

Home Borderland is full. Would you like to go to Edge of the Mists?
No.
Enemy One Borderland is full. Would you like to go to Edge of the Mists?
No.
Enemy Two Borderlands is full. Would you like to go to Edge of the Mists?
No.
Eternal Battlegrounds is full. Would you like to go to Edge of the Mists?
Yes.
SEGMENTATION FAULT: Kernel dumped. Rebooting...

Thanks, I’ll stick with my tier 8.

Nalia Ironstar.5470:

A day in the life of a top tier player…

Home Borderland is full. Would you like to go to Edge of the Mists?
No.
Enemy One Borderland is full. Would you like to go to Edge of the Mists?
No.
Enemy Two Borderlands is full. Would you like to go to Edge of the Mists?
No.
Eternal Battlegrounds is full. Would you like to go to Edge of the Mists?
Yes.
SEGMENTATION FAULT: Kernel dumped. Rebooting…

Thanks, I’ll stick with my tier 8.

This hasn’t been even remotely true for more than a year, with the exception of a few weeks in season 1. I don’t understand why people who have never been in tier 1 it talk about how tier 1 works with absolutely zero experience playing in it. I don’t know if it’s trolling or just astounding ignorance.

” No offence, but 2-manning a tower/keep is hardly pvp or WvW. It’s PvE. You’re not playing against anyone. By saying you enjoy it, just means you no interest in playing large-scale pvp. So… one guy on the ram, one guy kills guard respawns? Invigorating. ”

You are missing the point. A couple of us can flip half a servers map drawing their main force into their borderland and we can keep them busy for hours while our zerg takes over their corner of EB.

And it’s just as much fun taking a handful of people and defending when they try to do this in our bl. We aren’t spending the day pvd’ing, we are spending hours getting into fantastic small scale skirmishes without the karma train interfering.

I think WvW would be incredibly boring with a zerg on every map. The people that do enjoy that have the option to transfer to T1, there is no reason to impose that garbage on the rest of us.

Blix.8021:

Nalia Ironstar.5470:

A day in the life of a top tier player…

Home Borderland is full. Would you like to go to Edge of the Mists?
No.
Enemy One Borderland is full. Would you like to go to Edge of the Mists?
No.
Enemy Two Borderlands is full. Would you like to go to Edge of the Mists?
No.
Eternal Battlegrounds is full. Would you like to go to Edge of the Mists?
Yes.
SEGMENTATION FAULT: Kernel dumped. Rebooting…

Thanks, I’ll stick with my tier 8.

This hasn’t been even remotely true for more than a year, with the exception of a few weeks in season 1. I don’t understand why people who have never been in tier 1 it talk about how tier 1 works with absolutely zero experience playing in it. I don’t know if it’s trolling or just astounding ignorance.

Your statement can also be said to be the same for lower tiers. So people need to stop assuming things about servers and tiers that they haven’t played on or observed recently.

Tibstrike.2974:

Blix.8021:

Nalia Ironstar.5470:

A day in the life of a top tier player…

Home Borderland is full. Would you like to go to Edge of the Mists?
No.
Enemy One Borderland is full. Would you like to go to Edge of the Mists?
No.
Enemy Two Borderlands is full. Would you like to go to Edge of the Mists?
No.
Eternal Battlegrounds is full. Would you like to go to Edge of the Mists?
Yes.
SEGMENTATION FAULT: Kernel dumped. Rebooting…

Thanks, I’ll stick with my tier 8.

This hasn’t been even remotely true for more than a year, with the exception of a few weeks in season 1. I don’t understand why people who have never been in tier 1 it talk about how tier 1 works with absolutely zero experience playing in it. I don’t know if it’s trolling or just astounding ignorance.

Your statement can also be said to be the same for lower tiers. So people need to stop assuming things about servers and tiers that they haven’t played on or observed recently.

No, not really. Everything I say is true: lower tiers have less people, less coverage, less even matchups, less guilds, less roamers, less everything than higher tier servers. It’s not an opinion, it’s a number.

Blix.8021:

Tibstrike.2974:

Blix.8021:

Nalia Ironstar.5470:

A day in the life of a top tier player…

Home Borderland is full. Would you like to go to Edge of the Mists?
No.
Enemy One Borderland is full. Would you like to go to Edge of the Mists?
No.
Enemy Two Borderlands is full. Would you like to go to Edge of the Mists?
No.
Eternal Battlegrounds is full. Would you like to go to Edge of the Mists?
Yes.
SEGMENTATION FAULT: Kernel dumped. Rebooting…

Thanks, I’ll stick with my tier 8.

This hasn’t been even remotely true for more than a year, with the exception of a few weeks in season 1. I don’t understand why people who have never been in tier 1 it talk about how tier 1 works with absolutely zero experience playing in it. I don’t know if it’s trolling or just astounding ignorance.

Your statement can also be said to be the same for lower tiers. So people need to stop assuming things about servers and tiers that they haven’t played on or observed recently.

No, not really. Everything I say is true: lower tiers have less people, less coverage, less even matchups, less guilds, less roamers, less everything than higher tier servers. It’s not an opinion, it’s a number.

It has more solo roamers and small scale skirmishes which is a big part of the reason many people play there. Congratulations on having higher numbers, have fun in the blob.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Blix.8021:

Tibstrike.2974:

Blix.8021:

Nalia Ironstar.5470:

A day in the life of a top tier player…

Home Borderland is full. Would you like to go to Edge of the Mists?
No.
Enemy One Borderland is full. Would you like to go to Edge of the Mists?
No.
Enemy Two Borderlands is full. Would you like to go to Edge of the Mists?
No.
Eternal Battlegrounds is full. Would you like to go to Edge of the Mists?
Yes.
SEGMENTATION FAULT: Kernel dumped. Rebooting…

Thanks, I’ll stick with my tier 8.

This hasn’t been even remotely true for more than a year, with the exception of a few weeks in season 1. I don’t understand why people who have never been in tier 1 it talk about how tier 1 works with absolutely zero experience playing in it. I don’t know if it’s trolling or just astounding ignorance.

Your statement can also be said to be the same for lower tiers. So people need to stop assuming things about servers and tiers that they haven’t played on or observed recently.

No, not really. Everything I say is true: lower tiers have less people, less coverage, less even matchups, less guilds, less roamers, less everything than higher tier servers. It’s not an opinion, it’s a number.

It has more solo roamers and small scale skirmishes which is a big part of the reason many people play there. Congratulations on having higher numbers, have fun in the blob.

False. Tier 1 has plenty of roamers and small scale groups. Even in EB, which is blob central, you have people taking camps and killing stragglers.

Nothing can stop it!

Coming from AR T8. To sum it up, there are a few battles a night, during the day and off hours whichever server has a commander usually owns everything. Most times I’m solo and maps are completely empty. Yes there is a good small tight community, but often it feels desolate and lonesome. Then DR or FC shows up and completely dominates every map and nobody plays wvw that week. They control our entire map and they have 5 zergs to fight our one just trying to breathe and capture our own gari. Lately I have considered changing due to the lack of wvw participation in off hours, and it feels like only one to two groups trying to hold up every plate. Map changes happen constantly and there is never a firm commitment to any tower let alone supply camp lol. I’ve seen some servers upgrade them! I never see it from my server. There isn’t any or enough coverage to make it even remotely possible.

Tech – AR

Jim Hunter.6821:

” No offence, but 2-manning a tower/keep is hardly pvp or WvW. It’s PvE. You’re not playing against anyone. By saying you enjoy it, just means you no interest in playing large-scale pvp. So… one guy on the ram, one guy kills guard respawns? Invigorating. ”

You are missing the point. A couple of us can flip half a servers map drawing their main force into their borderland and we can keep them busy for hours while our zerg takes over their corner of EB.

And it’s just as much fun taking a handful of people and defending when they try to do this in our bl. We aren’t spending the day pvd’ing, we are spending hours getting into fantastic small scale skirmishes without the karma train interfering.

I think WvW would be incredibly boring with a zerg on every map. The people that do enjoy that have the option to transfer to T1, there is no reason to impose that garbage on the rest of us.

1. If a couple people can flip half a servers map, there’s clearly not enough people playing on either side. If a couple people are taking half a server’s BL, they clearly have absolutely nobody on the map, nobody scouting, nobody sentried, nobody manning siege, nobody defending at all. You call that WvW?
2. If said ‘couple people’ can then draw the opponent’s main force onto the map and defend recently flipped paper towers/keeps against opponent’s big force for hours as you say, then you’re clearly just not being truthful. It takes approximately 5 minutes to take the entire south part of a paper borderlands with a medium sized force.
3. You think WvW would be boring with Zerg (people) on every map?
So your idea of WvW is avoiding people?
You can make fun of tier 1 all you want I suppose, but at least it’s filled with people playing the game as intended and not pve’ing. It at least involves some strategy, communication, and tactics, and learning to take objectives that are actually defended by something other than npc’s

Blix.8021:

No, not really. Everything I say is true: lower tiers have less people, less coverage, less even matchups, less guilds, less roamers, less everything than higher tier servers. It’s not an opinion, it’s a number.

You know what is opinion? That having less people is worse than having more in WvW. Ya you can’t win every week, but you can have(more) fun. Coming from YB you might think we have larger numbers than we do, but other than a few weeks during the Seasons we are ALWAYS outnumbered on every other map except YBBL, but it’s FUN for me and our other roamers. IMO you OPINION is WRONG, but I don’t really care if you have to sit in queues for hours during reset(I have another account on BG, I KNOW there are alot more queues than the people posting here have said) while I get to have fun in fights on any map I want.

TLDR: Stop trying to force your unfun way of playing on to the rest of us.

Shonie.5297:

1. If a couple people can flip half a servers map, there’s clearly not enough people playing on either side. If a couple people are taking half a server’s BL, they clearly have absolutely nobody on the map, nobody scouting, nobody sentried, nobody manning siege, nobody defending at all. You call that WvW?
2. If said ‘couple people’ can then draw the opponent’s main force onto the map and defend recently flipped paper towers/keeps against opponent’s big force for hours as you say, then you’re clearly just not being truthful. It takes approximately 5 minutes to take the entire south part of a paper borderlands with a medium sized force.
3. You think WvW would be boring with Zerg (people) on every map?
So your idea of WvW is avoiding people?
You can make fun of tier 1 all you want I suppose, but at least it’s filled with people playing the game as intended and not pve’ing. It at least involves some strategy, communication, and tactics, and learning to take objectives that are actually defended by something other than npc’s

“THAT BLOB HAS LESS PEOPLE THAN US KILL IT!” is not a tactic, throwing more people and sup rams on a gate is also not a tactic. Now moving your zerg to an enemies borderland and faking an attack on their garri while leaving a small group to take their EBG keep/SM is a tactic. Of course when you already have a zerg attacking their borderland you can’t do that. Therefore less numbers is better for tactics than smaller numbers. See I can give my opinion as fact too.

Shonie.5297:

Jim Hunter.6821:

” No offence, but 2-manning a tower/keep is hardly pvp or WvW. It’s PvE. You’re not playing against anyone. By saying you enjoy it, just means you no interest in playing large-scale pvp. So… one guy on the ram, one guy kills guard respawns? Invigorating. ”

You are missing the point. A couple of us can flip half a servers map drawing their main force into their borderland and we can keep them busy for hours while our zerg takes over their corner of EB.

And it’s just as much fun taking a handful of people and defending when they try to do this in our bl. We aren’t spending the day pvd’ing, we are spending hours getting into fantastic small scale skirmishes without the karma train interfering.

I think WvW would be incredibly boring with a zerg on every map. The people that do enjoy that have the option to transfer to T1, there is no reason to impose that garbage on the rest of us.

1. If a couple people can flip half a servers map, there’s clearly not enough people playing on either side. If a couple people are taking half a server’s BL, they clearly have absolutely nobody on the map, nobody scouting, nobody sentried, nobody manning siege, nobody defending at all. You call that WvW?

For real. Moreover, a merge wouldn’t make this vanish completely, if people really love single player WvW they can always find it. I say this as someone who has played on Tarnished Coast, Gate of Madness, Fort Aspenwood, and Eredon Terrace. A merge of the low tiers wouldn’t pack every map full, far from it. I really don’t understand the perception that any increase in population suddenly eliminates the roaming game.

With what I know from playing on bigger servers, a merge would mean a bigger/more consistent allied fighting force in EB, a larger force of homeland defenders (who don’t vanish when the clock strikes midnight), and maybe even a group on an enemy borderland. Where is this misconception coming from that adding, say, the 40 WvW regulars from ET with the what, 45 guys from Kaineng suddenly queues every map? If the bottom servers get an EB queue on reset night, it is significant enough to be cheered in mapchat. A post-merge reset night might mean an EB queue, a borderland queue, and 2 totally open maps for any and all Lone Wolf players to get their Vet Super farm done.

I truly do not understand the objection, the roamer’s desired play experience will not disappear. Unless the desired play experience was to be able to roam solo on all 4 maps at any given time.

Outmanned roaming exists in tier 1, too. Sometimes we’re outmanned even in EBG, and we have people work together without a commander to try and secure our towers and keep.

There is literally nothing you can do in low tiers that you can’t do in tier 1. The only people who deny this are people who have never experienced it or people with potato computers who freeze as soon as more than a dozen people show up on the screen.

Shonie.5297:

Jim Hunter.6821:

” No offence, but 2-manning a tower/keep is hardly pvp or WvW. It’s PvE. You’re not playing against anyone. By saying you enjoy it, just means you no interest in playing large-scale pvp. So… one guy on the ram, one guy kills guard respawns? Invigorating. ”

You are missing the point. A couple of us can flip half a servers map drawing their main force into their borderland and we can keep them busy for hours while our zerg takes over their corner of EB.

And it’s just as much fun taking a handful of people and defending when they try to do this in our bl. We aren’t spending the day pvd’ing, we are spending hours getting into fantastic small scale skirmishes without the karma train interfering.

I think WvW would be incredibly boring with a zerg on every map. The people that do enjoy that have the option to transfer to T1, there is no reason to impose that garbage on the rest of us.

1. If a couple people can flip half a servers map, there’s clearly not enough people playing on either side. If a couple people are taking half a server’s BL, they clearly have absolutely nobody on the map, nobody scouting, nobody sentried, nobody manning siege, nobody defending at all. You call that WvW?
2. If said ‘couple people’ can then draw the opponent’s main force onto the map and defend recently flipped paper towers/keeps against opponent’s big force for hours as you say, then you’re clearly just not being truthful. It takes approximately 5 minutes to take the entire south part of a paper borderlands with a medium sized force.
3. You think WvW would be boring with Zerg (people) on every map?
So your idea of WvW is avoiding people?
You can make fun of tier 1 all you want I suppose, but at least it’s filled with people playing the game as intended and not pve’ing. It at least involves some strategy, communication, and tactics, and learning to take objectives that are actually defended by something other than npc’s

“… at least it’s filled with people playing the game as intended”

So all GvGing should stop? The arena in OS should be boarded up and any assemblies by the windmill should result in bans?

Oh sorry, I thought we were saying that people not playing the game “as intended” were wrong and should have your own preference foisted upon them.

Certainly I’ve flipped the odd empty tower. The next tower isn’t empty, though. Flipping Hills with one other person? Sure – it works because zerg mentality means it’s easy to have roamers pop swords on all of the towers and keeps at the same time, and have a more sizable force as a decoy (yep, the bigger force is the one you want to have seen).

The enemy zerg roars around looking for someone to fight, and finally finds your bigger force who are actually making a decent attempt at Bay. Meanwhile, amongst all of those swords you had your roamers pop the ones at Hills are real and you’re sieging the walls from odd spots that aren’t commonly looked at.

All the orange swords at Bay mean is that the zerg took the bait, you take their hills because the zerg mentality tends to dull the flexibility of people, and you have six camps, a keep, a couple of towers and are chewing through outer garrison before the zerg realizes there’s a problem and has to figure out what to do.

Remind me again why play at my level is against the game mode, and why yours is The One True Way?

sirflamesword.3896:

Shonie.5297:

1. If a couple people can flip half a servers map, there’s clearly not enough people playing on either side. If a couple people are taking half a server’s BL, they clearly have absolutely nobody on the map, nobody scouting, nobody sentried, nobody manning siege, nobody defending at all. You call that WvW?
2. If said ‘couple people’ can then draw the opponent’s main force onto the map and defend recently flipped paper towers/keeps against opponent’s big force for hours as you say, then you’re clearly just not being truthful. It takes approximately 5 minutes to take the entire south part of a paper borderlands with a medium sized force.
3. You think WvW would be boring with Zerg (people) on every map?
So your idea of WvW is avoiding people?
You can make fun of tier 1 all you want I suppose, but at least it’s filled with people playing the game as intended and not pve’ing. It at least involves some strategy, communication, and tactics, and learning to take objectives that are actually defended by something other than npc’s

“THAT BLOB HAS LESS PEOPLE THAN US KILL IT!” is not a tactic, throwing more people and sup rams on a gate is also not a tactic. Now moving your zerg to an enemies borderland and faking an attack on their garri while leaving a small group to take their EBG keep/SM is a tactic. Of course when you already have a zerg attacking their borderland you can’t do that. Therefore less numbers is better for tactics than smaller numbers. See I can give my opinion as fact too.

The problem is, you don’t see that… “Leaving a small group to take their EBG keep/SM” is a problem.
It means that nobody is playing.
What server would allow another server to take their keep in EBG with a small group?
Did they pull their entire force of 10 people across all maps to defend garrison?
That is called failed WvW because there are too many servers/maps for the amount of people that are actually playing.
24 servers worked at launch. Almost 2 years later when there’s only a small fraction of the original playerbase, 24 servers is not needed.
Also, ‘faking an attack on garrison and leaving a handful of people to take EBG keep" isn’t exactly a tactic when there’s opposition playing. Try that against a server that actually fields people and see how it goes.

Rimmy.9217:

Shonie.5297:

Jim Hunter.6821:

” No offence, but 2-manning a tower/keep is hardly pvp or WvW. It’s PvE. You’re not playing against anyone. By saying you enjoy it, just means you no interest in playing large-scale pvp. So… one guy on the ram, one guy kills guard respawns? Invigorating. ”

You are missing the point. A couple of us can flip half a servers map drawing their main force into their borderland and we can keep them busy for hours while our zerg takes over their corner of EB.

And it’s just as much fun taking a handful of people and defending when they try to do this in our bl. We aren’t spending the day pvd’ing, we are spending hours getting into fantastic small scale skirmishes without the karma train interfering.

I think WvW would be incredibly boring with a zerg on every map. The people that do enjoy that have the option to transfer to T1, there is no reason to impose that garbage on the rest of us.

1. If a couple people can flip half a servers map, there’s clearly not enough people playing on either side. If a couple people are taking half a server’s BL, they clearly have absolutely nobody on the map, nobody scouting, nobody sentried, nobody manning siege, nobody defending at all. You call that WvW?
2. If said ‘couple people’ can then draw the opponent’s main force onto the map and defend recently flipped paper towers/keeps against opponent’s big force for hours as you say, then you’re clearly just not being truthful. It takes approximately 5 minutes to take the entire south part of a paper borderlands with a medium sized force.
3. You think WvW would be boring with Zerg (people) on every map?
So your idea of WvW is avoiding people?
You can make fun of tier 1 all you want I suppose, but at least it’s filled with people playing the game as intended and not pve’ing. It at least involves some strategy, communication, and tactics, and learning to take objectives that are actually defended by something other than npc’s

“… at least it’s filled with people playing the game as intended”

So all GvGing should stop? The arena in OS should be boarded up and any assemblies by the windmill should result in bans?

Oh sorry, I thought we were saying that people not playing the game “as intended” were wrong and should have your own preference foisted upon them.

Certainly I’ve flipped the odd empty tower. The next tower isn’t empty, though. Flipping Hills with one other person? Sure – it works because zerg mentality means it’s easy to have roamers pop swords on all of the towers and keeps at the same time, and have a more sizable force as a decoy (yep, the bigger force is the one you want to have seen).

The enemy zerg roars around looking for someone to fight, and finally finds your bigger force who are actually making a decent attempt at Bay. Meanwhile, amongst all of those swords you had your roamers pop the ones at Hills are real and you’re sieging the walls from odd spots that aren’t commonly looked at.

All the orange swords at Bay mean is that the zerg took the bait, you take their hills because the zerg mentality tends to dull the flexibility of people, and you have six camps, a keep, a couple of towers and are chewing through outer garrison before the zerg realizes there’s a problem and has to figure out what to do.

Remind me again why play at my level is against the game mode, and why yours is The One True Way?

There’s the difference between tier 1 and tier whatever EBay is now… you think popping multiple swords is tricky. It’s only tricky against servers that have nobody playing.
It’s weird but, servers that field actual people leave scouts/siege in their towers and communicate with the commanders on the map or on mumble/TS., you know, like WvW is supposed to be. A couple tappers doesn’t fool anyone when there’s people on the map defending and scouting.
Maybe popping a few white swords tricks NPC’s?
Play at your level means fighting against empty maps.

Rimmy gets it. Not all of us are in it for the laughable rewards that karma training gets you.

You know what? If they ever fix some of the real problems in WvW that makes zerg warfare so ridiculous, like downed state and hard ressing, I wouldn’t have a problem with a merge. Until they do that I will continue to enjoy playing the game the way I like to play it and you’re free to do the same.

I have to agree. GW2 is a MMO, it’s not supposed to have almost empty maps any time of the day. If I log-in in any multiplayer online, the least I expect is to see, you know, a bunch of other players online, otherwise, I wouldn’t been playing this kind of game.

The emptiness that I find every night late hour on BP, for exemple, is the complete oposite of what a MMO should looks like. When you log-in in a MMO game and you don’t have more than 10 people to play with you, you know that there’s something wrong about that game.

NonToxic.9185:

A merge of the low tiers wouldn’t pack every map full, far from it. I really don’t understand the perception that any increase in population suddenly eliminates the roaming game.

With what I know from playing on bigger servers, a merge would mean a bigger/more consistent allied fighting force in EB, a larger force of homeland defenders (who don’t vanish when the clock strikes midnight), and maybe even a group on an enemy borderland. Where is this misconception coming from that adding, say, the 40 WvW regulars from ET with the what, 45 guys from Kaineng suddenly queues every map? If the bottom servers get an EB queue on reset night, it is significant enough to be cheered in mapchat. A post-merge reset night might mean an EB queue, a borderland queue, and 2 totally open maps for any and all Lone Wolf players to get their Vet Super farm done.

I truly do not understand the objection, the roamer’s desired play experience will not disappear. Unless the desired play experience was to be able to roam solo on all 4 maps at any given time.

You’re so wrong, on a lot of levels.

For starters, it wouldn’t give a bigger and more consistant fighting force on the maps – it would give queues at peak and the same population at dip. Do you think that population is a fluid that takes the shape of the server you pour it into? Do you think that when you merge two or three servers together, I’m suddenly going to become a midnight/early morning player? Is that how you think coverage works?

All it’s going to do is concentrate the people even more into their overlapping active times, which there are because our biggest groups fight ET’s biggest groups fight DH’s biggest groups at roughly the same time – NA evenings. All merging us together would do is mean some of us can’t play where we want to play because now three servers worth of people all want to get on to the same place.

So, where does this magical “consistent coverage” come from, exactly? All your idea does is make the times when we’re most active less fun and exclusionary to when we want to play. Want to know what that would be like? Ask ANet to lower map caps to 30 or 40 people, and then enjoy your high population server’s game experience.

While we have room for more people, what we don’t need is a glut of people suddenly joining us. There is already an option for people who don’t like being on a server with WvW populations like mine – transferring.

Please stop thinking you know better than we do what’s good for us, and please stop looking at us as a resource to prop up gold league server’s style of play.

If we believe the posts regarding the numbers of people enjoying WvW on other peoples servers we can deduce the following;

There are very few wvw people on lower tier servers, and

There are a lot of wvw people on higher tier servers.

Therefore, to maximise any gain of WvWers following a merge / deletion of wvw servers, it should be the top 6 servers that are deleted allowing a substantial flow of WvWers to the remaining 18. Merging a server that has only a few WvWers will effectively gain nothing.

Shonie.5297:

There’s the difference between tier 1 and tier whatever EBay is now… you think popping multiple swords is tricky. It’s only tricky against servers that have nobody playing.
It’s weird but, servers that field actual people leave scouts/siege in their towers and communicate with the commanders on the map or on mumble/TS., you know, like WvW is supposed to be. A couple tappers doesn’t fool anyone when there’s people on the map defending and scouting.
Maybe popping a few white swords tricks NPC’s?
Play at your level means fighting against empty maps.

And there’s the scorn and contempt, made much more naked, of people playing in conditions you imagine and then paper over what we’re saying.

You know why white swords work? Because white swords sometimes mean a force of 20 are taking something. I don’t think popping white swords is tricky, I think it puts pressure on people with certain resources to respond in certain ways. And it does.

Tell me again why it’s better to only run cpu-hogging groups to take things, and why that’s so much better?

We actually recently had some of our long-departed people come back to us from… Tarnished Coast. They confirm the 24/7 blobfest that none of us here want. That roaming isn’t a reality, that there’s no room to play your way.

I’m glad that you find your own experience there is satisfying, as is the experience of the people who stay there I suppose. I’ll also assume that you’re not jealous of us who aren’t locked into a single way of playing WvW.

But we so don’t want to be you. Stay where you are and play the game your way. If we get so bored in our empty maps that we wet ourselves when we see a red server tag fleeing in the distance, we’ll transfer. And when you get tired of zerging along and want to make a difference, there’s lower population servers waiting for you.

We saw how you tried to impose your “how it should be played” ideals on Blackgate during the tournament. You’ll forgive us if we don’t want your gentle touch and understanding applied to our non-problem.

elkirin.8534:

If we believe the posts regarding the numbers of people enjoying WvW on other peoples servers we can deduce the following;

There are very few wvw people on lower tier servers, and

There are a lot of wvw people on higher tier servers.

Therefore, to maximise any gain of WvWers following a merge / deletion of wvw servers, it should be the top 6 servers that are deleted allowing a substantial flow of WvWers to the remaining 18. Merging a server that has only a few WvWers will effectively gain nothing.

Maybe just the top three, they seem to be overstacked with a lot of players from other servers. Scatter them to the winds!

And it’s not like they’d object, since the idea of forcing the other end of the population spectrum to play their way is clearly right… they can be missionaries! Yes, they can teach us the joys of blobbing to the exclusion of all other ways to play! Hallelujah!

Rimmy.9217:

Shonie.5297:

There’s the difference between tier 1 and tier whatever EBay is now… you think popping multiple swords is tricky. It’s only tricky against servers that have nobody playing.
It’s weird but, servers that field actual people leave scouts/siege in their towers and communicate with the commanders on the map or on mumble/TS., you know, like WvW is supposed to be. A couple tappers doesn’t fool anyone when there’s people on the map defending and scouting.
Maybe popping a few white swords tricks NPC’s?
Play at your level means fighting against empty maps.

And there’s the scorn and contempt, made much more naked, of people playing in conditions you imagine and then paper over what we’re saying.

You know why white swords work? Because white swords sometimes mean a force of 20 are taking something. I don’t think popping white swords is tricky, I think it puts pressure on people with certain resources to respond in certain ways. And it does.

Tell me again why it’s better to only run cpu-hogging groups to take things, and why that’s so much better?

We actually recently had some of our long-departed people come back to us from… Tarnished Coast. They confirm the 24/7 blobfest that none of us here want. That roaming isn’t a reality, that there’s no room to play your way.

I’m glad that you find your own experience there is satisfying, as is the experience of the people who stay there I suppose. I’ll also assume that you’re not jealous of us who aren’t locked into a single way of playing WvW.

But we so don’t want to be you. Stay where you are and play the game your way. If we get so bored in our empty maps that we wet ourselves when we see a red server tag fleeing in the distance, we’ll transfer. And when you get tired of zerging along and want to make a difference, there’s lower population servers waiting for you.

We saw how you tried to impose your “how it should be played” ideals on Blackgate during the tournament. You’ll forgive us if we don’t want your gentle touch and understanding applied to our non-problem.

Honestly, how long do you think it’ll be before the population withers to the point where WvW isn’t really sustainable in the lower tiers? Do you think it needs to get to that point before changes are made? It’s probably already at that point outside of NA time. Even then, are lower tiers even filling more than 1 map out of 4 during your busiest time of day?
It’s a given that there’s more PvE players in this game than Wvw’ers… yet Anet found it necessary to merge the PvE maps into that mega server thing. Do you honestly think there’s enough Wvw’ers to warrant 24 servers, regardless of how you enjoy playing?

Whats happening is evolution, our lower tiered servers are used to having one-two groups control 4 maps. its not logical, but its whats we’ve been accustomed to. Some even use it as a strategy.

Shonie.5297:

Rimmy.9217:

Shonie.5297:

There’s the difference between tier 1 and tier whatever EBay is now… you think popping multiple swords is tricky. It’s only tricky against servers that have nobody playing.
It’s weird but, servers that field actual people leave scouts/siege in their towers and communicate with the commanders on the map or on mumble/TS., you know, like WvW is supposed to be. A couple tappers doesn’t fool anyone when there’s people on the map defending and scouting.
Maybe popping a few white swords tricks NPC’s?
Play at your level means fighting against empty maps.

And there’s the scorn and contempt, made much more naked, of people playing in conditions you imagine and then paper over what we’re saying.

You know why white swords work? Because white swords sometimes mean a force of 20 are taking something. I don’t think popping white swords is tricky, I think it puts pressure on people with certain resources to respond in certain ways. And it does.

Tell me again why it’s better to only run cpu-hogging groups to take things, and why that’s so much better?

We actually recently had some of our long-departed people come back to us from… Tarnished Coast. They confirm the 24/7 blobfest that none of us here want. That roaming isn’t a reality, that there’s no room to play your way.

I’m glad that you find your own experience there is satisfying, as is the experience of the people who stay there I suppose. I’ll also assume that you’re not jealous of us who aren’t locked into a single way of playing WvW.

But we so don’t want to be you. Stay where you are and play the game your way. If we get so bored in our empty maps that we wet ourselves when we see a red server tag fleeing in the distance, we’ll transfer. And when you get tired of zerging along and want to make a difference, there’s lower population servers waiting for you.

We saw how you tried to impose your “how it should be played” ideals on Blackgate during the tournament. You’ll forgive us if we don’t want your gentle touch and understanding applied to our non-problem.

Honestly, how long do you think it’ll be before the population withers to the point where WvW isn’t really sustainable in the lower tiers? Do you think it needs to get to that point before changes are made? It’s probably already at that point outside of NA time. Even then, are lower tiers even filling more than 1 map out of 4 during your busiest time of day?
It’s a given that there’s more PvE players in this game than Wvw’ers… yet Anet found it necessary to merge the PvE maps into that mega server thing. Do you honestly think there’s enough Wvw’ers to warrant 24 servers, regardless of how you enjoy playing?

Maybe it would have a healthier population if they fixed some of the gaping flaws in the system. Merging servers is treating a symptom instead of the disease, and at the same time it will kitten off a big chunk of the people playing on those servers.

Ditch the server system. Make an alliance system. Run it alongside a Megaserver/EotM match-up system with alliance match-ups and regular match-ups.

Done. Everything about WvW match-ups are fixed. PuGs are happy, guilds are happy. Nightcapping goes away. Being forced to work with jerks/trolls on a server goes away. Being forced to work with hardcore/casual players goes away. Coverage goes away. Population size imbalance goes away.

Literally every problem with the current match-up system can be fixed by just giving us player made alliances (or maybe some form of guild-level association system).

mexay.3902:

Ditch the server system. Make an alliance system. Run it alongside a Megaserver/EotM match-up system with alliance match-ups and regular match-ups.

Done. Everything about WvW match-ups are fixed. PuGs are happy, guilds are happy. Nightcapping goes away. Being forced to work with jerks/trolls on a server goes away. Being forced to work with hardcore/casual players goes away. Coverage goes away. Population size imbalance goes away.

Literally every problem with the current match-up system can be fixed by just giving us player made alliances (or maybe some form of guild-level association system).

I’ve been saying that for some time now.

Rimmy.9217:

Certainly I’ve flipped the odd empty tower. The next tower isn’t empty, though. Flipping Hills with one other person? Sure – it works because zerg mentality means it’s easy to have roamers pop swords on all of the towers and keeps at the same time, and have a more sizable force as a decoy (yep, the bigger force is the one you want to have seen).

The enemy zerg roars around looking for someone to fight, and finally finds your bigger force who are actually making a decent attempt at Bay. Meanwhile, amongst all of those swords you had your roamers pop the ones at Hills are real and you’re sieging the walls from odd spots that aren’t commonly looked at.

All the orange swords at Bay mean is that the zerg took the bait, you take their hills because the zerg mentality tends to dull the flexibility of people, and you have six camps, a keep, a couple of towers and are chewing through outer garrison before the zerg realizes there’s a problem and has to figure out what to do.

Remind me again why play at my level is against the game mode, and why yours is The One True Way?

“The next tower isn’t empty” isn’t always true… I’ve duo-ed all 4 Kaineng BL towers without oposition many times during last week. Sometimes if there is no WPs, you’ll even flip keeps before the first defender arrive…

Your “pop swords on everything strategy” only work exactly because of super limited resourses low population servers have… Sometimes it’s not even because we were careless, but because we HAD TO CHOOSE which keep we would defend…

Let’s say you have 10 people on Bay doing a “decent atempt”. If left alone, these people will undoubtly flip your keep. But then you have swords popping everywhere and only 15 people on the map. What you gonna do? Defend a keep you know you’re going to lose if you don’t, or go check swords that might be just a fake and lose the keep that is under attack?

Countless times I heard on TS “Abandon EB, we need to defend homeland” and lost a fully upgraded EB keep because there wasn’t enough defenders. Your strategy only work because the server in question don’t have enough manpower to send a sizeable force to defend the keep under attack while sending a party to scout/defend all other swords. I don’t find servers that need to choose what they are going to protect because there is not enough people to be healthy servers…

You asked me in other post if I want my server to get merged with another server. Yes, I do… Eredon Terrace is beyond salvation. You have 2-3 hours of action and then it’s a 20 hours of struggling to hold whatever you can with a handful of people that are outnumbered at least 1:5. When the “action time” come up again, we have a bunch of unsieged paper keeps while the oposition have fully upgraded everything else. This is a very frustrating experience for anyone new to the game. What I’m going to answer to the guy that ask “Why all enemy towers are upgraded and ours aren’t?”.

But for my server to be gone, two other servers need to cease to exist aswell (3 way fights, remember?), so it’s not as simple as saying “Oh just delete Eredon Terrace already since no one is playing on it”. That’s why we’re discussing the problem that low population brings, and not simply why my server is deserted. And many of the issues people are discussing here aren’t exclusive to my server, they are just worse for us.

Then you can come and say: “Oh, then why don’t you transfer out already if it’s so bad?” Ok, I transfer out and the problem persists… So every other Eredon Terrace player that is having a bad WvW experience need to transfer out aswell? Every new player that log on that server will also have to transfer out to have a decent WvW experience? Telling others to transfer out is not a solution. It actually just make the problem worse.

Jeknar.6184:

If everyone is on it’s home BL and EB, what is the only map where will be fighting? Having only 1 of the 4 maps with fights doesn’t sound right. And even if you say “Oh but when there is no action on home BL these people will move to another BL”, then you get a empty map, which doesn’t sound right too.

Also, you say “How can be super ninja stuff if there is action on all maps?”. Well, people ninja stuff while the main enemy zerg is occupied with the main allied zerg on the map (At least that’s what I saw while I was on BG and Maguuma). Taking stuff in deserted maps isn’t ninja, it’s just “uninterrupted PvDoor” because, unless you try a WP’ed keep, no one will ever know you are there (Since they are on other maps).

Why is an empty map so bad? Again, if everyone can get a fight by going to say EB, it doesn’t matter if there are also fights in all other BLs. If you’re busy fighting in EB, it doesn’t matter if there are also fights in every other bl, as you can only participate in one fight at a time.

Idk how dead it is for you in t8 Jeknar, but ninjaing something in t6/7 always gets someone’s attention. Ebay especially has very dedicated, very quick to respond bl defenders. SoR isn’t much different. Ninja ops almost always end with a very fun small scale fight for the tower. If they don’t, you feel like a boss and move onto the next target. Whether or not sometimes you’re just engaging in PvD is unimportant, it’s still fun.

Shonie.5297:

No offence, but 2-manning a tower/keep is hardly pvp or WvW.
It’s PvE. You’re not playing against anyone.
By saying you enjoy it, just means you no interest in playing large-scale pvp.
So… one guy on the ram, one guy kills guard respawns? Invigorating.
This isn’t the intent of WvW. Sure there will be down times on a lot of servers where stuff like this is possible. But gameplay like this at all hours outside of NA prime isn’t sustainable long term.
9 to 12 servers would probably be sufficient at this point in the game’s life cycle.
Outside week 1 or 2 of a tournament, there would be no issues with queues having 9 or 12 servers.

The reason 2 manning a tower is exciting is precisely because people usually do show up lol… As previously discussed, people congregate to their bl/eb in lower tiers, that means if you try to ninja in any map aside from your own bl (which would only lose a tower if a significant roaming group is there, also making it dangerous), you’re probably gonna have people showing up. If you don’t, you feel awesome and rewarded for stealing something away before they could respawn. Regardless or not if you classify it as pvp (even though it often lures enemies directly to you), it’s fun, and that’s what matters. It’s not exactly an uncommon thing either, virtually everyone in lower tiers does it here and there (not necessarily 2 man, just small manning, 2-5). It’s some a ton of people enjoy.

Further, saying I enjoy something aside from large scale pvp does not mean I don’t also enjoy large scale pvp… Do you enjoy roaming? I do, but that doesn’t mean I don’t also like zerging on occasion. And for the record, plenty of people prefer to stay away from large scale pvp in wvw already, that’s not what everyone likes about it, so pretending that if you don’t participate in large scale pvp you’re doing WvW wrong is silly. WvW’s selling point may be “lotsa big battles yay”, but that doesn’t mean everyone has to come and stay for that aspect of it.

Finally, there are battles that pop orange swords for at least 12 hours of the day on every server in the game. For servers like Darkhaven/devona’s rest/gates of madness we pop orange swords any time of the day in t7/6. We’re not as dead as you seem to think.

Lets be perfectly honest, the people who prefer empty maps and playing PvE instead of WvW just have wooden computers and are mad they cant participate in any form of fight.

I have 2 computers, one maintains 50-60 FPS on maxed out settings in a massive 3-way SMC blob fight when they arise.

The second one is god awful. On absolutely bare minimum settings it maintains 40 FPS in a dead zone, a 15v15 fight brings it to 10-15 FPS, a zerg vs zerg brings it down to 6 FPS, and all the players are invisible except for names. It is hilariously bad.

In conclusion, update your computer even slightly so you can actually enjoy WvW instead of PvEing in empty maps.

PS. You can roam, small ops, ninja, 5 man, havoc and camp flip in T1-3, it isn’t zerg only. The only reason you pretend its zerg only is because you don’t want to admit using a wooden PC.

I want to encounter other players, not NPC’s.

Shonie.5297:

Honestly, how long do you think it’ll be before the population withers to the point where WvW isn’t really sustainable in the lower tiers? Do you think it needs to get to that point before changes are made? It’s probably already at that point outside of NA time. Even then, are lower tiers even filling more than 1 map out of 4 during your busiest time of day?
It’s a given that there’s more PvE players in this game than Wvw’ers… yet Anet found it necessary to merge the PvE maps into that mega server thing. Do you honestly think there’s enough Wvw’ers to warrant 24 servers, regardless of how you enjoy playing?

This week ANet reduced the number of people to activate Siegerazor from ten to five. I think that tells me something about their attitude to lower-population servers.

I can’t say about population withering on lower tier servers, since ours is on the rise if the past few weeks are any indication. Do you find that there is a withering on your own stuffed server?

But how long it will take? I have no metric to judge. I know that there aren’t as many people playing Red Alert 2 as there were a decade ago as well, are you talking about a normal decay over time?

By “filling out a map”, do you mean "unable to play because there’s a queue? Because that seems to indicate that such servers need to bleed some of their people off.

I think that your T1 idea of what’s sustainable in WvW and that of the people on the servers you’re talking about in the lower tiers is very different. I wonder why you think you’re more informed than they are.

Rimmy.9217:

Do you think that … become a midnight/early morning player?

Where did I say that? You, like me, log on at multiple times in the day. You are not online exclusively from 6:10pm to 9:10pm everyday, you are not a static entity. Adding more players who log on at multiple times in the day increases your coverage at all times in the day, yes. That IS how coverage works. You know as a player on these servers that they do not all log in from 6:10 to 9:10 either, Kaineng is more active later and Ebay is more active earlier. To say they are static is a lie, and you know it. The notion that somehow ANY server pours 100% of its playerbase into one time slot is beyond ridiculous.

“Do you think population is a fluid that takes the shape of the server you pour it into?”

To a degree, ABSOLUTELY. I play GW2 during the night sometimes, and since my server has no WvW presence at that time, I stay out of WvW. Conversely, at reset hour, I stay the hell out of EB because I know there is going to be a brief ego-war between the two commanders as they decide who gets to tag. This is an example of me, a unit of population (liquid), changing my play habits based on the dynamics of my server (container).

This is exactly what would happen after a merge. All the players who want to play at 10am, but instead play at 6pm for a chance at playing with allies, might see more people in their preferred time slot. You, who is I guess fatally allergic to zergs, would avoid the reset hour and instead play later, and then I, who wants to play later but can’t due to no allies, has another person to play with! And with these shifts comes greater coverage.

Rimmy.9217:

All merging us together … three servers worth of people all want to get on to the same place.

Wrong! If three servers struggle individually to queue one map, it is preposterous to suggest that combining them will fill all the maps all the time. Instead, you will have more people playing on all of the maps, more of the time. Stop saying combining three servers with minimal life will create a T1 Gold, that is false.

When Tarnished Coast had queues, there were HUNDREDS of players trying to get on the map. Spreading those players out among all the other maps left EB with a long queue, home borderland with a small queue, and enemy borderlands with no queue at all. If an actual T1 Gold doesn’t have the problem you described, how in the blue kitten would mashing Ebay and Kaineng together produce 300 new players out of thin air to queue all the maps and stop you from playing?

You are not being remotely realistic in your representation of a post-merge WvW.

Rimmy.9217:

There is already an option for people who don’t like being on a server with WvW populations like mine – transferring.

Yeah, what was I thinking! The answer to 5 bottom servers offering a pathetic play experience is to transfer away, leaving them more pathetic than they were before. My cash and my guild influence is burned, all the people I spent years playing with are now pen pals at best, and the problem persists for everyone who wasn’t me! Great solution.

Rimmy.9217:

Please stop thinking … gold league server’s style of play.

I see you still think I’m on gold! I have been in bronze for almost two years now. I know what’s good for you better than you do because I have played on several healthy servers that ARE NOT GOLD. The play experience you seek to preserve exists in a better form when the population of your server and the servers around you have more players. You can still play as you desire to, and everyone who wants to have larger scale battles has a better chance of seeing one happen. Roamers keep roaming, zergs zerg each other, and when I log on at 3 in the morning to play, there would be some other people around. How is it better to not have any options of what commander you follow, because there is only one online between all 4 maps (if any)? For that matter, you don’t have any option of what map you are playing on either, because only one has allies.

You know what? Lets turn this right around. Stop imposing your ideals of ‘empty is better’ on me, I want enemies to kill (and allies to kill them with). Stop telling me I need to forget about having a group fight more than once per week (reset), and then only for 2 hours. Stop suggesting a merge creates a 400 player full map lockup.

Stop encouraging the death of bronze servers. You want to play world war alone? Play Civilization. Eredon Terrace’s bottoming out is the ultimate in foreshadowing. Think all the players on EBay/Kaineng/AR are gonna stick around when season 3 is announced and another round of tiered transfers occur?

Jeknar.6184:

“The next tower isn’t empty” isn’t always true… I’ve duo-ed all 4 Kaineng BL towers

~ snipped because a message can’t exceed 5001 characters ~

experience? Telling others to transfer out is not a solution. It actually just make the problem worse.

The tactic I was talking about is something we’ve been using to good effect in our current match with DH and SoR – they are zerg-oriented rather than the roaming style we usually employ, so they tend to be fairly predictable when we decoy them.

And it is a decoy – I will sometimes run perpendicular to one of their zerg’s paths and the entire zerg will follow me. Back when we were in T4 we would have got chewed out for that lol

And no disrespect to either of those servers – it’s just something we’ve noticed and have incorporated into our fights with you, since you outnumber us.

Against ET we wouldn’t do the same – you tend to roam so it would be rarer to surprise you like that. On the other hand, we have picked up more people (from PvE mostly, and usually find them on EBG) so taking stuff in parallel is more possible now, if they keep playing WvW. But you’re right, it’s that your stuff tends to stay paper that means we can take things more quickly.

We also more or less abandon EBG when someone calls for help at home – we leave some people to run siege and keep a lookout, and try to deal with home as quickly as possible.

We lose stuff sometimes if people find a weakness. What can you do?

Instead of merging, how would you be with the following:

New accounts made on GW2 default to ET as their server. They have a free week to change if they want. That way, people coming on to join friends can go wherever they want, but you get the new people. This would change if you moved out of rank 24.

Cost of transfer is based on server ranking, and dimishes down to free for ONLY rank 24. People transferring at this point are doing so for WvW anyway.

Both of these things, especially the second one, grant you (theoretically) more people, without flooding you and wiping away your server’s WvW culture.

As a third option, which wouldn’t affect only you, perhaps there can be tiers to the outnumbered buff – so that if a server’s representatives on a given map are really out of proportion to their enemies, they’d have a tangible boost to give them more of a chance.

Would something like this do it for you, or is the merger still a better idea for your server?

thaooo.5320:

Lets be perfectly honest, the people who prefer empty maps and playing PvE instead of WvW just have wooden computers and are mad they cant participate in any form of fight.

I have 2 computers, one maintains 50-60 FPS on maxed out settings in a massive 3-way SMC blob fight when they arise.

The second one is god awful. On absolutely bare minimum settings it maintains 40 FPS in a dead zone, a 15v15 fight brings it to 10-15 FPS, a zerg vs zerg brings it down to 6 FPS, and all the players are invisible except for names. It is hilariously bad.

In conclusion, update your computer even slightly so you can actually enjoy WvW instead of PvEing in empty maps.

PS. You can roam, small ops, ninja, 5 man, havoc and camp flip in T1-3, it isn’t zerg only. The only reason you pretend its zerg only is because you don’t want to admit using a wooden PC.

I want to encounter other players, not NPC’s.

Obvious troll is obvious.

All of that stuff you mentioned in your PS? We do all of that too. Our computers run just fine.

Stay where you are if you’re happy with what you’ve got. Extend the same freedom to us.

sirflamesword.3896:

And the only people who like playing on the huge zergy servers are the people who can’t fight others 1v1, are really bad at the game, and in general have no life. See I can ALSO do big

You should stop posting on the forums, you just show how little you know. I have a system that can fun any zerg content at ultra graphics, but I still would quit the game the second I get forced to WvW in a T1 server, why? Because I don’t want to zerg, it’s boring, worthless, and I think the game would be 100% better without it, but I’m also not trying to force it on everyone else since I know not everyone has the same skill level I and my guildies have in small scale fights. We know you need all the help you can get from the 40 other people around you.

PS. You can roam, small ops, ninja, 5 man, havoc and camp flip in T1-3, it isn’t zerg only. The only reason you pretend its zerg only is because you don’t want to admit using a wooden PC.

I play in T2.

2 days ago, I spent my first hour playing solo, just because I could.

I was camp flipping and looking for small fights.

Spent the next hour with my guild, we organized open field fighting with the other servers guilds, just for fun and practice.

But I wasn’t feeling it that night, so I went back to roaming.

During this next hour:

I was trebbing NET (fully upgraded) from NEC, just because I could. While a 5 man group went after NWT (fully upgraded) at the same time. While a 10 man group went after Bay (paper).

During this time, I killed a counter cata they tried to set up inside NET. I killed both a guard and mesmer who came for me, not once, but twice. During the second fight, they got a counter treb up inside NET and killed my NEC treb.

The 5 man team at NWT finished up and came over to NET which both walls and the gate were on 20% from the treb. We finished it up, they had 4 defenders inside as well.

That sums up a standard night in T2.

And best of all, I was versing ENEMY PLAYERS, not NPC’s.

I was able to do anything I wanted to. From soloing, to havoc, to small ops, to guild vs guild scrimmages, to zerging. In one 3-4 hour session I did them all. VERSUS PLAYERS.

In high tiers you can experience and participate in various forms of play style, in one night if you want to, VERSUS PLAYERS. You cannot do that in tumbleweed tiers, not even close to that.

We’ve said it before and we’ll say it again, you don’t have to only zerg.

Rimmy.9217:

All of that stuff you mentioned in your PS? We do all of that too. Our computers run just fine.

Stay where you are if you’re happy with what you’ve got. Extend the same freedom to us.

The POINT of the PS was to say it isn’t only zerging. Which you’ve deluded yourself into thinking.

The difference is, I can jump in and out of any form of WvW play style whenever I want. You cannot, you have to make do with what appears that night.

And we always have enemy players to engage with. You don’t.

The people who say “oh we are skilled 1 v 1 and t1 isent” you guys are just pveing in your server. All there is, 1-2 roamers an hour and npc to kill.
I’m in t1 and yes there r zergs, but a lot of times u can’t find people in wvw. Population is bad anywhere. I know if I went to t6-8, I would be bored as kitten.

I just logged off and the bottom 3 servers are fielding tons of people right now. I tried to get a good shot of ET’s zerg but I wasn’t able to catch them all. This is about a 3rd of their group.

On top of that they had 5-10 man roaming groups attacking our camps and our bl was being attacked by another group. Not exactly tumbleweeds.

Jim Hunter.6821:

I just logged off and the bottom 3 servers are fielding tons of people right now. I tried to get a good shot of ET’s zerg but I wasn’t able to catch them all. This is about a 3rd of their group.

On top of that they had 5-10 man roaming groups attacking our camps and our bl was being attacked by another group. Not exactly tumbleweeds.

That’s what, a good day for et?

thaooo.5320:

sirflamesword.3896:

And the only people who like playing on the huge zergy servers are the people who can’t fight others 1v1, are really bad at the game, and in general have no life. See I can ALSO do big

You should stop posting on the forums, you just show how little you know. I have a system that can fun any zerg content at ultra graphics, but I still would quit the game the second I get forced to WvW in a T1 server, why? Because I don’t want to zerg, it’s boring, worthless, and I think the game would be 100% better without it, but I’m also not trying to force it on everyone else since I know not everyone has the same skill level I and my guildies have in small scale fights. We know you need all the help you can get from the 40 other people around you.

PS. You can roam, small ops, ninja, 5 man, havoc and camp flip in T1-3, it isn’t zerg only. The only reason you pretend its zerg only is because you don’t want to admit using a wooden PC.

I play in T2.

2 days ago, I spent my first hour playing solo, just because I could.

I was camp flipping and looking for small fights.

Spent the next hour with my guild, we organized open field fighting with the other servers guilds, just for fun and practice.

But I wasn’t feeling it that night, so I went back to roaming.

During this next hour:

I was trebbing NET (fully upgraded) from NEC, just because I could. While a 5 man group went after NWT (fully upgraded) at the same time. While a 10 man group went after Bay (paper).

During this time, I killed a counter cata they tried to set up inside NET. I killed both a guard and mesmer who came for me, not once, but twice. During the second fight, they got a counter treb up inside NET and killed my NEC treb.

The 5 man team at NWT finished up and came over to NET which both walls and the gate were on 20% from the treb. We finished it up, they had 4 defenders inside as well.

---

That sums up a standard night in T2.

And best of all, I was versing ENEMY PLAYERS, not NPC’s.

I was able to do anything I wanted to. From soloing, to havoc, to small ops, to guild vs guild scrimmages, to zerging. In one 3-4 hour session I did them all.

In high tiers you can experience and participate in various forms of play style, in one night if you want to. You cannot do that in tumbleweed tiers, not even close to that.

We’ve said it before and we’ll say it again, you don’t have to only zerg.

Rimmy.9217:

All of that stuff you mentioned in your PS? We do all of that too. Our computers run just fine.

Stay where you are if you’re happy with what you’ve got. Extend the same freedom to us.

The POINT of the PS was to say it isn’t only zerging. Which you’ve deluded yourself into thinking.

The difference is, I can jump in and out of any form of WvW play style whenever I want. You cannot, you have to make do with what appears that night.

Good lord you are stuck up.

Just let it go. Some people like more populated tiers and some people don’t.

The difference between the upper tiers and lower tiers is that lower tiers eventually stabilize and either accept the new style or transfer off. Higher tiers are always trying to replace players leaving or they die horrifically.

It’s hilarious to hear higher tier servers saying that lower tier servers need to do this or that to succeed when the same high tier servers are the ones constantly stripping the lower tiers of guilds or players. But then those servers recover eventually and the higher tier servers are fighting a leaking ship as more people burn out.

To be honest, the T1 mentality of WvW is the most damaging one to WvW. It promotes tryhard playing and has a burnout rate on a much higher level than any other tier.

Just let people play how they want.

NonToxic.9185:

This is exactly what would happen after a merge. All the players who want to play at 10am, but instead play at 6pm for a chance at playing with allies, might see more people in their preferred time slot. You, who is I guess fatally allergic to zergs, would avoid the reset hour and instead play later, and then I, who wants to play later but can’t due to no allies, has another person to play with! And with these shifts comes greater coverage.

You don’t work, go to school, or have other obligations in real life?

The majority of people that I play with do – they don’t have the flexibility to just sign on some other time. That three hour stretch before/after real life is all the time they’re going to get to have. Your concept of how more coverage happens makes zero sense amongst the people on my server.

While there are some with flexible times, this is not even close to the majority. And, I’d wager, a fair number of people on other lower tier servers might also have obligations in real life. Since NA evenings seems to be a busy time for most servers, I’d say that mashing three servers together would create a glut of players at that time.

NonToxic.9185:

Wrong! If three servers struggle individually to queue one map, it is preposterous to suggest that combining them will fill all the maps all the time. Instead, you will have more people playing on all of the maps, more of the time. Stop saying combining three servers with minimal life will create a T1 Gold, that is false.

When Tarnished Coast had queues, there were HUNDREDS of players trying to get on the map. Spreading those players out among all the other maps left EB with a long queue, home borderland with a small queue, and enemy borderlands with no queue at all. If an actual T1 Gold doesn’t have the problem you described, how in the blue kitten would mashing Ebay and Kaineng together produce 300 new players out of thin air to queue all the maps and stop you from playing?

You are not being remotely realistic in your representation of a post-merge WvW.

Frankly, neither are you. You seem to be lauding a queued map as some sort of “THIS is good. THIS is how it’s supposed to be!” goal, when a queued map just means that not everybody gets to play what they want. A queued map is a failure, not the other way around.

Combining the three servers WILL queue up EBG, since that’s where people go first. Between any three servers, there will be 80 people on at prime time. Again, not healthy.

NonToxic.9185:

Yeah, what was I thinking! The answer to 5 bottom servers offering a pathetic play experience is to transfer away, leaving them more pathetic than they were before. My cash and my guild influence is burned, all the people I spent years playing with are now pen pals at best, and the problem persists for everyone who wasn’t me! Great solution.

No, instead you want to take your personal preference and YOUR investment… and keep it at the expense of hundreds of other players who DON’T want to merge and DON’T find the current style of play anything less than enjoyable. Great selfish “solution”.