Guild Wars 2

Wild.3847:

muddy terrain, spike trap, frost trap, frost spirit.

Lemongrass, Melandru Runes, Dogged March. None of those conditions will last even half a second on a warrior, which is the class with banner. Also having Berserker Stance makes immunity to all conditions so nothing can even be applied, endure pain, and stability. You need boon strips and guardian hammer skills/hammr stuns, not conditions.

I didn’t read this whole thing. All I know is people complain that defense is dead and it’s not worth defending yet you have it, and then you want to kill one of the methods.

Aside from the perhaps flawed logic I posted there, I still see no problem with the issue considering every server has this ability. Perhaps most importantly though, if mine (or anyone else) can manage to clear the room, and hold the point and capture while they are ressing the lord, I don’t see why you can’t.

TL;DR
L2P

Jackie.1829:

People deliberately brought warriors in. They didnt have a queue to the map.

I agree that banner res needs work as it isn’t working as intended.
You are 100% wrong about the queue and pls don’t insist on that as we know our server much better than you.
If Gunnars could pull that kind of organization (having 20 people ready with warrior alts, with the appropriate spec we would be at gold league easily

Too bad there’s not a skill like GW1’s Frozen Soil which prevents rezzing.

Might make rangers welcome in WvW zergs.

Well, there is one…but only on players, which is a thief stacking poison on downeds and stuff with venom. It’s really their biggest contribution to the zerg, heh, preventing the zombie in open field.

It doesn’t work on NPCs though, is why it still allows the suicidal Banner runs.

Jackie.1829:

Again, nobody from VoTF, literally nobody, cares about garrison or your attempts to defend/attack or your situation in the match up.

So, what is it you were doing in Garri then? Were you in there for the epic fights? With the other 2 guilds? Give us a break…

Crash.9186:

To everyone that doesn’t see the issue with this mechanic…I just feel sorry for you, all I can hope is wait till such an event happens to you and then see how much of a fail it is first hand, then if you still see no problem in it then yeah, there’s no hope for you.

Let me tell you a story. A few weeks ago RAGE, the guild leading the defence here, were running an open mic on community voice comms defending our bl. One of the opposing servers was giving us a hard time, so when we’d pushed them out we decided we’d try and go for their garri. We built golems and got to inner when they all wped in. We wiped them over and over but eventually after much wping and bannering of the lord we got beaten back. We all laughed and counted our loot bags and commented on what a great time we’d just had… and then took Bay.

Maybe you guys should stop whining about every little thing that goes against you? Or are warrior banners going to be the new acs?

You should just enjoy the farming them, why worry so much about the cap.

Jimmy JimBob.2801:

Jackie.1829:

Again, nobody from VoTF, literally nobody, cares about garrison or your attempts to defend/attack or your situation in the match up.

So, what is it you were doing in Garri then? Were you in there for the epic fights? With the other 2 guilds? Give us a break…

Crash.9186:

To everyone that doesn’t see the issue with this mechanic…I just feel sorry for you, all I can hope is wait till such an event happens to you and then see how much of a fail it is first hand, then if you still see no problem in it then yeah, there’s no hope for you.

Let me tell you a story. A few weeks ago RAGE, the guild leading the defence here, were running an open mic on community voice comms defending our bl. One of the opposing servers was giving us a hard time, so when we’d pushed them out we decided we’d try and go for their garri. We built golems and got to inner when they all wped in. We wiped them over and over but eventually after much wping and bannering of the lord we got beaten back. We all laughed and counted our loot bags and commented on what a great time we’d just had… and then took Bay.

Maybe you guys should stop whining about every little thing that goes against you? Or are warrior banners going to be the new acs?

Cool story bro, you should tell that as a bed time story.

p.s, still doesn’t make the mechanic any more right.

Crash.9186:

Cool story bro, you should tell that as a bed time story.

p.s, still doesn’t make the mechanic any more right.

With all the money i’ve put into upgrading, I’m a big fan of alot of the mechanics that help defenders. AFAIC all the worst bits of wvw are the ones that allow keeps/towers to be taken with no trouble at all. Like, for example 3 guilds trying to steamroll over a T3 garrison…

If you really are a guild that just plays for fights as you claim then you too should welcome a mechanic that prolongs the need for people to stick around and actually fight you.

Jimmy JimBob.2801:

Crash.9186:

Cool story bro, you should tell that as a bed time story.

p.s, still doesn’t make the mechanic any more right.

With all the money i’ve put into upgrading, I’m a big fan of alot of the mechanics that help defenders. AFAIC all the worst bits of wvw are the ones that allow keeps/towers to be taken with no trouble at all. Like, for example 3 guilds trying to steamroll over a T3 garrison…

If you really are a guild that just plays for fights as you claim then you too should welcome a mechanic that prolongs the need for people to stick around and actually fight you.

So let me get this straight, you’re not a big fan of a big organized push between 3 guilds and any pugs that joins them, you think that they shouldn’t be allowed to get it if the defenders can’t do anything to stop them as you deem that to easy? and instead you think that the people defending should be able to win by consistently suicide ressing till the attackers get bored and leave?…wow, just wow.

I can’t stop laughing (my main is a warrior)

I agree with the part of the waypoint “bug”, that’s actually an EXPLOIT, in the game for +1 year.

Samhayn.2385:

ilr.9675:

I saw a warrior last night on IOJ that confused the hell out of me.
“she” (probably not IRL gender) was completely immune to all of the following, all of the time:

• Cripple SPAM
• knockback
• burning (litterally stood in my fire trap, never caught fire)
• Immobs
• any physical damage (just out-regened it!) … poison didn’t seem to debuff this btw.

…3 of us all tried to focus her, she just teleported away with that sword whirl faster than any FGS Ele I’ve ever seen before. …. like if this game had 50% faster movement speed?? Well she had like 100% … that’s how fast her disengage was and I’m on double sword roaming ranger which even Ele and Thieves have trouble disengaging from. ….My guild leader just said ignore her. “She’s trolling us”.

I don’t understand this and I need someone to explain it to me. …Just like a month ago everyone was whining that Warrior was the weakest crap there was in PvP’ing. There was a survey where they were dead last. ….someone explain how all those things are allowed, b/c yes, I’ve heard people say that warriors can build to shrug off pretty much everything

ehhh the great sword just needs to get the ride the lighting treatment, don’t hit someone with it you get a really long cool down (either that or anet needs to not be hypocrites and un Nerf d/d ele movement).

Rush is so buggy it just won’t hit 80% of the time. Anet will need to change the concept of it if not the nerf you’re asking will not be justify to the players that are not playing in NA(high latency players).

Jimmy JimBob.2801:

Jackie.1829:

Again, nobody from VoTF, literally nobody, cares about garrison or your attempts to defend/attack or your situation in the match up.

So, what is it you were doing in Garri then? Were you in there for the epic fights? With the other 2 guilds? Give us a break…

I dont think you understand what I meant. I meant we wanted garrison but we arent making this thread because of what happened specifically today, we used what happened today as evidence to support a claim we have made previously. This is an incident pertaining to a larger problem of which GH is not at fault since you were simply playing the game as it is possible to.

Here is why I care, a lot of players, us included have gone around asking on the forums for GvG (VoTF not so much as others spoke loud enough already on the topic). A major part of the response was “this is wvw not gvg”. And arenanets stance (even though they are giving us a potential temporary solution out of pressure) is that they will not consider consquences for gvg when updating wvw, hence the orb mechanics reintroduced. They said their primary concern is to better wvw, and make it potentially more competitive (not sure on this , but we have leagues coming up with rewards).

So VoTF figure, hey lets go play “wvw”. And then you realize how mechanically broken WvW is. Bannering the lord was merely one example, and since I personally do care about the game, I will be vocal on something that is very clearly broken. Once everybody relaxes about the FSP/GH hate or the VoTF hate, and just thinks about this rationally, you can see why a sustainable tactic to keep the lord alive for hours on end is flawed, and you can also understand that due to map layout, if warriors take bstance/berserkerstance/endure pain that there is no counter to the casting of the warbanner itself. If you evaluate these things you realize that this does need a fix.

Another broken issue is that 1 guild raid alone cannot take a t3 keep vs defenders so you inevitably have no choice but to blob. But that is a different topic altogether.

Since Devon stated earlier that this is working as intended but we should “kill the warriors”. Since then we have had things like endure pain CD reduction, berserker stance introduced into the game etc, so if this was once intended a very long time ago, the current capacity of warriors makes this no longer fair.

I don’t understand VoTF’s fascination with blaming this entirely on BANNERS. Why when you guys run to the forum on this issue you shout how banners are the problem. There are multiple ways to fix it, you even allude to it in your posts.

They are not the problem, you will get support about people being able to waypoint in when the cap circle is up, but you will not get the same support about banners. Bannering supervisors and lords to me is entirely valid, it makes fights happen, and helps the defense.

Slipping in under a waypoint when the attacking team has no idea when the waypoint resets is a bit unfair to me, and I fully support locking waypoints when the lord is defeated. Allowing defenders to slip in on the reset of the quest is ok, as long as the lord is alive.

I like the mechanics of instaressing the objective. WvW should encourage fighting players and part of that allows stalling objectives so players can get there in time to fight. Being able to stall the cap can bring some exciting moments in wvw and I don’t want that to be taken away.

Idm either fix. But just as bannering gives you a potential fight, waypointing does as well, waypointing lets you get the zerg to the objective when otherwise not possible which gives me as an attacker a proper keep defense fight. So both have their benefits from your fight analysis. Whether waypoint or banner gets nerfed isnt a bit issue.

But the problem is the banner shouldnt work like this, its simply lazy form by Anet who tried to rationalize it by saying “working as intended” so they wouldnt have to put work in. Again though, I dont mind either fix, the problem is the combination of the 2. I think crash simply made his thread title the way it was for the sake of grabbing peoples attention.

Another QQ topic, don’t even bother to read all whine. Defenders must have natural advantage because they are (tadam!) defenders. If attacking force unable to organize proper lord defense and circle cleaning, it’s l2p and l2organization issue, not gameplay or balance one.
P.S. Especially lol’d at “zerker stance warrior are unstoppable!” posts. Guess someone never heard about stuns, knockbacks, launches…

Waypoint porting is a bit of BS. But it’s been countered by having people WP camp. Clear the area and have a few stay to clean up/cap and the rest preparing to bomb the WP. There is a few seconds of delay between your character show up at the WP and attackable and when you can move/see your screen. Done properly, you’ll just pick up your bags and move on.

my thief has no problems with warriors.

Excalibur.9748:

3. strip their stability off and CC to death.

Berserker stance.

How does this relate to CC that is affected by stability?

Or are we just saying random words?
In that case: bananarama!

OT:

Lol guys, paintrain 20+ GvG-Raiders complain about warriors?
Pleaso don’t, it makes you lose credibility.

Hey OP, nice hyperbole. Some facts:

Crash.9186:

You can’t kill something that’s totally immune to damage

endure/defy pain. Notice the active duration and cooldown.

Crash.9186:

…and CC

Scroll down and notice all the possible ways to strip/convert boons.

Crash.9186:

Want to know what actually made this more laughable? the fact that we actually saw the enemy bringing up-leveled warriors just to banner res

Which you couldn’t kill because they have 4 seconds of invulnerability? Some might describe that “laughable”, mate.

Face it OP, you were completely outplayed.

Have necros to rip the stab. Not hard. I always rip the stab and ask ppl to focus them down. Endure pain lasts 5 sec and zerker stance 8. Few ppl spec into increased stance which gives an extra 1sec each, almost.

Blind hammer wariors. Have a neco spam AOE blind. That is pretty op in zerg fights.

Zerker stance doesn’t stop CCs from landing, u can still knock them back

Why don’t you carry stability in this game?

Don’t stand in a cluster. Only bad players cluster. Even if you clustered, the warrior cc affects only 5 ppl.

You are complaing about warriors and not boon abuse guardians with 7 boons each lasting 20+ seconds including protection?

You do realize that necros and eles can rez and eles can rez with a range of 1200, right? The problem isn’t the warrior banner..the problem is rezzing an npc. This should not happen via skills. The lords should only get rezzed once the circle is reset back to zero.

Don’t forget about perma stealth thieves rezzing..

There are tons of things broken in this game..you are just noticing one thing one year into the game..?

Lack of organisation on your part and lack of good judgment/ability to do their job on the dev part does not constitute a fault with the other players abusing the brokenmechanics

Brew Pinch.5731:

Hey OP, nice hyperbole. Some facts:

Crash.9186:

You can’t kill something that’s totally immune to damage

endure/defy pain. Notice the active duration and cooldown.

Crash.9186:

…and CC

Scroll down and notice all the possible ways to strip/convert boons.

Crash.9186:

Want to know what actually made this more laughable? the fact that we actually saw the enemy bringing up-leveled warriors just to banner res

Which you couldn’t kill because they have 4 seconds of invulnerability? Some might describe that “laughable”, mate.

Face it OP, you were completely outplayed.

Smart warriors have 10 seconds of endure pain, almost 9 seconds of immunity vs conditions and have two stabilities. One to back up the 2nd in case the 1st gets ripped. The OP might have run into those. Endure pain, zerker stance can’t be rippd. I doubt two necros will waste rip boon on one warrior. I always pop one expecting it to be ripped then pop the 2nd right after.

Now..imagine 2-3 or 4 wars like that? Guardians can do the same thing with tons of boons, block heal, lotsa Aegises, 3sec immunity, etc etc

Whilst i agree that the banner mechanic is a little absurd, i still like it the way it is. Sorry but if 3 guilds can’t organise themselves to keep people away from the lord thats tough kitten!

Something like this IS needed though, a PuG zerg can get through 2 reinforced gates easily within 2 minutes 30. A zerg consisting of 3 guilds could get through much faster and all without popping a battle marker so some process is needed to prevent the attackers zerging a fully upgraded keep and flipping it before defenders can turn up.

I’ve done my fair share of 2+ hour fights in the lord room trying to cap a circle, and the majority of the time i do it with a full zerg of PuGs getting other commanders to take small teams with them to stop people getting into the lord room. I very rarely go straight for a cap if they have people alive around the lord room because all you are doing is watsing time trying to cap a circle when the lord will just get ressed and giving the enemy time to regroup and re-organise.

First you kill them all, then you cap it. If you can’t manage to kill them all don’t waste time trying to cap it :P

They still didn’t fix warrior banner rez on keep lord ?? Obviously a broken mechanic. The funniest thing is the dev’s been told lots of times by people in top Wvwvw guilds do they listen ? Do they care ? Of course not, typical Arenanet.

I bet Warriors running around with that absurd buff to healing signet, in full PVT running around Garrison inner walls with a banner ready to go is a right hoot ! Proper Vizunah Square style.

Good job Arenanet on deathblowing what potentially could have been a great game. Do you even play your own game, i know you guys like to troll GvG’s and such but do you actually play this game to figure out whats wrong with it ?

Cyril omg:)
Come join us at Gunnars mate.

Your build means strict 30 in def line, no movement impairing immunity due to stance talent, only 1 stability will be on-demand, and conditions with +condi duration will still penetrate your “condition immunity”. All those theorycrafted specs are good on forums.

To all factions and participators of this thread. Please check the video itself before posting anything. This way we can get a proper discussion of the situation. Thank you. Video can be found in my first post of this thread.

Furthermore, I play a warrior aswell, if I really want to banner something I can do it even when there’s 90 ppl between me and the target. I think ressing the lord with banner is okay but perhaps it should not completely reset the cap bar. Instead once lord is up it could start slowly going down. This way if the lord is instantly killed after the cap is delayed but not permanently.

Thank you all!

I agree with the VotF players. Some of the counters mentioned in this thread simply do not work, as illustrated by their posts. It is really frustrating trying to capture the keep or castle, when lord gets rezzed over and over again. And yes, we do have necros and mesmers with boon removal. Sure maybe with some extreme condition spamming and condition stripping that is possible, but let’s say you have just your average zerg, guild team or (worse) PuGs. Do you realistically think they all run +40% condition duration, massive condition spam, CC and boon removal just to counter this?

I think warrior at the moment has bit too much good going on. I agree that several months ago warrior was weak in spvp/tpvp, but now the hotjoin spvp is full of warriors as well. Warriors have always been king of pve and probably the most common or second most common profession in WvWvW (tied up with guardians). They really did not need any buffs for WvWvW. Now warriors have great healing, superb condition removal, extreme mobility and couple of immunities (berserker’s stance and endure pain). Warrior can attack, get down to very low health and still disengage fights with ease using greatsword + sword/warhorn + mobile strikes combo.

Hammer warriors were always king of CC and leaked patch notes say that both warrior shouts and warrior hammer is gonna get buffed in next patch (!!). Now all that combined I really hope the next balance patches would bring some sense to this ruined game, but it seems the developer mind set is different.

Welcome to Warrior Wars 2.

gwfanboy.2496:

Smart warriors have 10 seconds of endure pain, almost 9 seconds of immunity vs conditions and have two stabilities. One to back up the 2nd in case the 1st gets ripped. The OP might have run into those. Endure pain, zerker stance can’t be rippd. I doubt two necros will waste rip boon on one warrior. I always pop one expecting it to be ripped then pop the 2nd right after.

Carrying Endure pain, 2 stability utilities and zerker stance? Dude… That’s not possible, sorry.

You can trait for the second stability, but that doesn’t allow you to “pop one expecting it to be ripped then pop the 2nd right after”.

I’m thinking about the 50 seconds in a minute that you’re not immune to damage, conditions or CC.

I don’t even play Warrior outside of sPvP (even then just for a giggle) and I can pick the bullkitten you lot are peddling in this thread a mile away.

It’s sad people have to blame their failure on something beyond their control when it is abundantly clear they were just straight up outplayed.

Brew Pinch.5731:

gwfanboy.2496:

Smart warriors have 10 seconds of endure pain, almost 9 seconds of immunity vs conditions and have two stabilities. One to back up the 2nd in case the 1st gets ripped. The OP might have run into those. Endure pain, zerker stance can’t be rippd. I doubt two necros will waste rip boon on one warrior. I always pop one expecting it to be ripped then pop the 2nd right after.

Carrying Endure pain, 2 stability utilities and zerker stance? Dude… That’s not possible, sorry.

You can trait for the second stability, but that doesn’t allow you to “pop one expecting it to be ripped then pop the 2nd right after”.

I’m thinking about the 50 seconds in a minute that you’re not immune to damage, conditions or CC.

I don’t even play Warrior outside of sPvP (even then just for a giggle) and I can pick the bullkitten you lot are peddling in this thread a mile away.

It’s sad people have to blame their failure on something beyond their control when it is abundantly clear they were just straight up outplayed.

Like Qla said, watch the video. It’s not only warriors in this fight. And good luck trying to catch a ton of warriors who scatter in all directions as soon as the lord is up, like going out the water gate, which we twice took down by hand cause they repaired it and we wanted to put people out there to prevent them from running out there. We always did kill a few warriors but when there’s constant harassment by enemies zerging the lords circle and by mortars & even a treb firing poison in the whole ring it’s pretty hard. And then take in to consideration that they use the WP every 3rd minute to get back in. Also you don’t really seem to understand how fast warriors are in movement.. Greatsword 3/5 & sword 2.. Good luck catching all those warriors.

My suggestion

Give the lord a buff when resurrected by a player skill that makes him immune to all player skill revives for 2, 3, 4, 5 minutes (whatever seems reasonable).

These sort of unpredictable tactics are what make the game fun.

Yeah all I am really reading is people frustrated that they ran into a coordinated defense group that kept bannering the lord. It sucks when it happens (I have had it happen to me and have done it to others in the last week), but instead of QQing about it you just have to tip your hat when people do things well. There is a reason why the banners res the lords, and there is a reason why you have to control that circle.

More often than not you do not run into groups that are organized well enough to do it with regularity.

#FrozenSoil2014?

Crash, you are doing nothing more the venting. You know better than this. If those you run with cannot yet figure out how block or prevent warriors from banner rez’ing a Lord after all this time in WvW, wow, just wow. Better yet, the best thing to do is just deal with it instead of coming on the forums to gripe about it…

Rigel.3092:

Crash, you are doing nothing more the venting. You know better than this. If those you run with cannot yet figure out how block or prevent warriors from banner rez’ing a Lord after all this time in WvW, wow, just wow. Better yet, the best thing to do is just deal with it instead of coming on the forums to gripe about it…

But you have the magical solution cause you are so good or?

I read this thread and people go “OMG USE CC” “this is so easy I can kill wars with my thief” “pull it to a different spot” “thats the function of the banner!” “defenders should have an advantage!”.

And I cant help but cry, because clearly such a large portion of players dont get it. We already said it was 10+ warriors, the lord area of garrison has multiple levels as well as inside and outside water gate via which they can hide. They dont come anywhere near the lord until they decide to banner at which point they use their utilities, and then they can wait 3 mins for next banner which syncs with all utilities coming back easily, even if they die they can respawn and they will have all the skills back.

And yes defenders should have an advantage, but not cap invulnerability, and if you cannot understand how this is complete invulnerability, then its you who needs to l2play because you clearly have no semblance of game understanding as far as mechanics. Frankly I dont know why crash posted on forums aside from possibly to get Arenanets attention, because the majority of players here are clueless and the posts demonstrate that.

What? VoTF complaining about game mechanics? Again? I’ve lost count of the threads where they don’t like something. I thought you lot were quitting the game after the changes to arrow carts?

if they remove the warrior banner npc ress, the qq will be about 2 engis toss r. then it will be ranger’s nature spirit.
after the removal of wp, the qq will be mesmers porting allies in, then it will be about the keep being close to spawn.
Can’t we just have 1 massive qq thread in all forums rather than a kittenton of them?

Jackie.1829:

Rigel.3092:

Crash, you are doing nothing more the venting. You know better than this. If those you run with cannot yet figure out how block or prevent warriors from banner rez’ing a Lord after all this time in WvW, wow, just wow. Better yet, the best thing to do is just deal with it instead of coming on the forums to gripe about it…

But you have the magical solution cause you are so good or?

I read this thread and people go “OMG USE CC” “this is so easy I can kill wars with my thief” “pull it to a different spot” “thats the function of the banner!” “defenders should have an advantage!”.

And I cant help but cry, because clearly such a large portion of players dont get it. We already said it was 10+ warriors, the lord area of garrison has multiple levels as well as inside and outside water gate via which they can hide. They dont come anywhere near the lord until they decide to banner at which point they use their utilities, and then they can wait 3 mins for next banner which syncs with all utilities coming back easily, even if they die they can respawn and they will have all the skills back.

And yes defenders should have an advantage, but not cap invulnerability, and if you cannot understand how this is complete invulnerability, then its you who needs to l2play because you clearly have no semblance of game understanding as far as mechanics. Frankly I dont know why crash posted on forums aside from possibly to get Arenanets attention, because the majority of players here are clueless and the posts demonstrate that.

1 Golem is effective on a gate, 10 Golems are more effective. Strategy goes out the window when you add more numbers to the situation.

My point is that 1-3 banner warriors you might could stop, 10+ and it is probably GG and time to move on.

The real issue here sir, is that there are too many people in this game that think they should “win” every scenario and when they do not they come here and cry nerf all under the veil of “balance”.

The fact still remains that War Banners have a long CD, and unless you have 10+ warriors you have to be fairly coordinated to keep the lord up. I know it is frustrating, but more than likely you just ran into a good group of folks that had a plan and it worked. You might play this game for the next year and not see 10+ banner warriors again, and then you might see it again tonight. It is just a “perfect storm” scenario that is probably awesome if you are one of the 10 warriors, and sucks if you are trying to cap that circle.

Actually, Ranger Spirit Res is easier to interrupt than anything else in the game. There is a cast time for the spirit, during which the Ranger needs to survive (quite easy, admittedly). Then there is suddenly this rather alrge spirit appearing which dies in seconds from all the aoe, and then, if it somehow doesn’t, there is still painfully obvious cast time and animation for the res. :p
Not really comparable to warrior banner
(Src: played both Warrior and Ranger extensively in every aspect of the game (ok, Warrior not much in spvp))

Mesmer qq is way old though, so is keep location if I’m not mistaken.

The problem isn’t that it resurrects the Lord but that it does so at range, instantly upon casting. It’s the latter part that requires balancing not the former. I don’t care if the Lord gets rez’d the whole week and SM never gets flipped, but those doing the rezing shouldn’t be able to do it with an instant ranged ability. Move the rez into the bar of banner skills while equipped, and make it AoE centered on the user with an obvious casting animation and 1-2 second cast time. Wanna rez the Lord? You have to put on your waders and rush into the K!tt3N and try to come back out clean.

It’s a legitimate problem with the mechanics that falls on the deaf ears of a dev team that overly favors Warriors, reserving the nerf hammer for those other 7 classes. Granted Warriors needed some improvements, they’ve gone a bit over the top whilst dismissing problems and need to start reining in the imbalances and taking a serious look at core designs if they want to maintain a healthy combat system.

I don’t see GW2 WvW being a sustainable game mode, and based on the lack of positive development I’m pretty sure ANet sees that as well, which is why they never balance it, but rather foster an environment of ever increasing imbalance. With stiff market competition months from launch, next-gen consoles mere weeks away, and an insurmountable amount of work required to balance WvW, I think ANet is going to just ignore this and every other thread concerning WvW as they focus on the strength of their studio: rapid development of PvE content. If GW2 is going to last the test of time, development and balancing of WvW will not be relevant to that success. Just an inconvenient truth, so expect Warrior banner rez spam to be in WvW lord rooms until the day they switch off the servers.

I know I enjoy being a 30/30/30/30/30 warrior with 6 Utility slots.

tichai.4351:

What? VoTF complaining about game mechanics? Again? I’ve lost count of the threads where they don’t like something. I thought you lot were quitting the game after the changes to arrow carts?

When VotF guys complain, they usually have a point. ACs have been broken since launch (window resizing / zoom hack). Buffing already overpowered and broken siege weapon was just plain dumb decision. Now warriors are clearly the most abundant profession in WvWvW and their constant buffing doesn’t make sense. The banner rezzing could use some toning down and then maybe the warriors would be using other elite skills as well.

I have had the pleasure of playing with VotF, when they were still on Desolation and also as their opponent. Very solid game play and good individual skill as well. Aneu is a very good commander.

I think instead of dismissing valid points made by some of the GW2’s best players, Arenanet should perhaps hire some dedicated GW2 gamers into their team, at least as part-time consultants.

Correct : most warriors as mentioned are -98% condition duration (cc).
So unless your team has some extreme + condition duration masters there to counter them, those warriors are just immune to conditions(cc).

Deniara Devious.3948:

Do you realistically think they all run +40% condition duration, massive condition spam, CC and boon removal just to counter this?

Obscure One.4357:

The problem isn’t that it resurrects the Lord but that it does so at range, instantly upon casting. It’s the latter part that requires balancing not the former. I don’t care if the Lord gets rez’d the whole week and SM never gets flipped, but those doing the rezing shouldn’t be able to do it with an instant ranged ability. Move the rez into the bar of banner skills while equipped, and make it AoE centered on the user with an obvious casting animation and 1-2 second cast time. Wanna rez the Lord? You have to put on your waders and rush into the K!tt3N and try to come back out clean.

It already is a 2-second cast with a range around 600:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Battle_Standard

I have had mine (when I am running warrior) interrupted many times (crippled and walking through null fields losing stability along the way), and also died while trying to “wade” into range of the Lord.

King Amadaeus.8619:

Obscure One.4357:

The problem isn’t that it resurrects the Lord but that it does so at range, instantly upon casting. It’s the latter part that requires balancing not the former. I don’t care if the Lord gets rez’d the whole week and SM never gets flipped, but those doing the rezing shouldn’t be able to do it with an instant ranged ability. Move the rez into the bar of banner skills while equipped, and make it AoE centered on the user with an obvious casting animation and 1-2 second cast time. Wanna rez the Lord? You have to put on your waders and rush into the K!tt3N and try to come back out clean.

It already is a 2-second cast with a range around 600:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Battle_Standard

I have had mine (when I am running warrior) interrupted many times (crippled and walking through null fields losing stability along the way), and also died while trying to “wade” into range of the Lord.

Indeed. The rez is however instant, and does not operate as other heal over time Rez skills (but other heal over time rez skills aren’t elite, so that is acceptable). Additionally casting does not lock the user in place allowing for a “hit and run” style rez.

It requires enemy organization to counter you, but with equal organization you’ll get your banner off. Just one consecration Guardian (Wall of Reflection + Hallowed Ground + Sanctuary) and Frenzy it goes off without contest. Then while your Frenzy is up you pop off a quick 16k kill shot that downs the two or three guys trying to stop you. Conditions? My warrior is not convinced they exist. CC’s? Don’t notice those either he automatically gains stability and ignores the effect that proc’d it. Boon ripping? Unless you have a buddy set to use an interrupt immediately, my friend dropped a stability spamming field, so if your timing lags a fraction of a second you’ve done nothing to stop me. Direct DPS? Endure Pain is an undeniable buff both on my bar and will activate automatically at 25%…and that consecration guardian friend is full clerics with over 2k healing power who’s entire job for that one moment is to make sure that banner goes off.

Add in 30 players on each side making a delightful mess of bloom effects and also prepping banners if one fails and you’ve got the ingredients for a really bull_kitten_ troll fight for SM.

Obscure One.4357:

King Amadaeus.8619:

Obscure One.4357:

The problem isn’t that it resurrects the Lord but that it does so at range, instantly upon casting. It’s the latter part that requires balancing not the former. I don’t care if the Lord gets rez’d the whole week and SM never gets flipped, but those doing the rezing shouldn’t be able to do it with an instant ranged ability. Move the rez into the bar of banner skills while equipped, and make it AoE centered on the user with an obvious casting animation and 1-2 second cast time. Wanna rez the Lord? You have to put on your waders and rush into the K!tt3N and try to come back out clean.

It already is a 2-second cast with a range around 600:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Battle_Standard

I have had mine (when I am running warrior) interrupted many times (crippled and walking through null fields losing stability along the way), and also died while trying to “wade” into range of the Lord.

Indeed. The rez is however instant, and does not operate as other heal over time Rez skills (but other heal over time rez skills aren’t elite, so that is acceptable). Additionally casting does not lock the user in place allowing for a “hit and run” style rez.

It requires enemy organization to counter you, but with equal organization you’ll get your banner off. Just one consecration Guardian (Wall of Reflection + Hallowed Ground + Sanctuary) and Frenzy it goes off without contest. Then while your Frenzy is up you pop off a quick 16k kill shot that downs the two or three guys trying to stop you. Conditions? My warrior is not convinced they exist. CC’s? Don’t notice those either he automatically gains stability and ignores the effect that proc’d it. Boon ripping? Unless you have a buddy set to use an interrupt immediately, my friend dropped a stability spamming field, so if your timing lags a fraction of a second you’ve done nothing to stop me. Direct DPS? Endure Pain is an undeniable buff both on my bar and will activate automatically at 25%…and that consecration guardian friend is full clerics with over 2k healing power who’s entire job for that one moment is to make sure that banner goes off.

Add in 30 players on each side making a delightful mess of bloom effects and also prepping banners if one fails and you’ve got the ingredients for a really bull_kitten_ troll fight for SM.

Seriously you are describing a well oiled machine of a concerted effort to banner a lord, and wondering why it is possible? I mean what you are describing is probably in the minutest minority of the banner attempts that go down.

95% of banner attempts: “Im gonna warbanner the lord” then it either happens or they stop him/her. I mean if people are really building/gearing/grouping for warbanner attempts I say: bravo.

Kudos to you for being on the other side of the argument, but realistically people need to stop being irritated that stuff works as “intended”.

It is kinda like saying: Stability is OP because my guardian has a ton of it and I walk through people trying to CC me.

tichai.4351:

What? VoTF complaining about game mechanics? Again? I’ve lost count of the threads where they don’t like something. I thought you lot were quitting the game after the changes to arrow carts?

I lived in that thread and never did we actually say we were quitting, we predicted people quitting and playing less and we’ve seen those things happen. I rarely log in to WvW anymore when I’m not with my guild.

1 more thing, I see some people mentioning WP getting open for a few seconds every 3 min as a bug. It ain’t… It got mentioned few months ago that it is a game mechanic and was intentionnaly put into the game. This to promote the building of waypoints to help defend something.

And please, if there is no skill/ coordination involved in banner rezzing the lord. Than why ain’t everybody exploiting this? It has been in the game since the start and I have played 1000s of hours in WvW and never had a problem with it. It was well played by Gunnars.

I don’t know if corrupt boon goes through Berserker stance. But I believe it does, it will succesfully remove his stability and soften him up for heavy CC.

Another fix might be a range decrease of the banner, making it harder to hit the lord. But a guild group should be able to deal with it.

King Amadaeus.8619:

Obscure One.4357:

King Amadaeus.8619:

Obscure One.4357:

The problem isn’t that it resurrects the Lord but that it does so at range, instantly upon casting. It’s the latter part that requires balancing not the former. I don’t care if the Lord gets rez’d the whole week and SM never gets flipped, but those doing the rezing shouldn’t be able to do it with an instant ranged ability. Move the rez into the bar of banner skills while equipped, and make it AoE centered on the user with an obvious casting animation and 1-2 second cast time. Wanna rez the Lord? You have to put on your waders and rush into the K!tt3N and try to come back out clean.

It already is a 2-second cast with a range around 600:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Battle_Standard

I have had mine (when I am running warrior) interrupted many times (crippled and walking through null fields losing stability along the way), and also died while trying to “wade” into range of the Lord.

Indeed. The rez is however instant, and does not operate as other heal over time Rez skills (but other heal over time rez skills aren’t elite, so that is acceptable). Additionally casting does not lock the user in place allowing for a “hit and run” style rez.

It requires enemy organization to counter you, but with equal organization you’ll get your banner off. Just one consecration Guardian (Wall of Reflection + Hallowed Ground + Sanctuary) and Frenzy it goes off without contest. Then while your Frenzy is up you pop off a quick 16k kill shot that downs the two or three guys trying to stop you. Conditions? My warrior is not convinced they exist. CC’s? Don’t notice those either he automatically gains stability and ignores the effect that proc’d it. Boon ripping? Unless you have a buddy set to use an interrupt immediately, my friend dropped a stability spamming field, so if your timing lags a fraction of a second you’ve done nothing to stop me. Direct DPS? Endure Pain is an undeniable buff both on my bar and will activate automatically at 25%…and that consecration guardian friend is full clerics with over 2k healing power who’s entire job for that one moment is to make sure that banner goes off.

Add in 30 players on each side making a delightful mess of bloom effects and also prepping banners if one fails and you’ve got the ingredients for a really bull_kitten_ troll fight for SM.

Seriously you are describing a well oiled machine of a concerted effort to banner a lord, and wondering why it is possible? I mean what you are describing is probably in the minutest minority of the banner attempts that go down.

95% of banner attempts: “Im gonna warbanner the lord” then it either happens or they stop him/her. I mean if people are really building/gearing/grouping for warbanner attempts I say: bravo.

Kudos to you for being on the other side of the argument, but realistically people need to stop being irritated that stuff works as “intended”.

It is kinda like saying: Stability is OP because my guardian has a ton of it and I walk through people trying to CC me.

Think of it as a play in a play book rather than a dedicated purpose of the composition. It’s not the role the builds are built for, it’s just one of the many things they can do in tandem. If we ignore complex combinations and class synergy then we ignore the entire context of the combat system at large. Sure, plenty of PuGs try and fail, but in organized groups which are more common the closer their tier number gets to 1, this tactic is par for the course. Voice comms, pre-established Mesmer veil, portal chains, and Warrior banner rotations are an integral part of how the guild I belong to, and guilds that run with us, operate.

To balance a game ignoring the players who’re squeezing every ounce of efficiency out of their builds and team composition is balancing for the lowest common denominator often resulting in incidentally making these players even more potent than they already are (I.E. Warriors) which causes more imbalance than you had to begin with.

Don’t get me wrong, I love my Warrior. He’s the coolest looking of my four 80’s and I’ve dumped thousands of hours into the guy, but the class has way to much impact on any fight they’re involved in even before bannering the Lord over and over and over again. Something has to give.

Obscure One.4357:

Sure, plenty of PuGs try and fail, but in organized groups which are more common the closer their tier number gets to 1, this tactic is par for the course. Voice comms, pre-established Mesmer veil, portal chains, and Warrior banner rotations are an integral part of how the guild I belong to, and guilds that run with us, operate.

To balance a game ignoring the players who’re squeezing every ounce of efficiency out of their builds and team composition is balancing for the lowest common denominator often resulting in incidentally making these players even more potent than they already are (I.E. Warriors) which causes more imbalance than you had to begin with.

Well coordinated groups, doing well coordinated things successfully is a sign of a success not a sign of an issue, more times than not.