Guild Wars 2

I took the time to create this table that display the kills & deaths for each map and each tier in WvW (NA). The information is updated every time you refresh the page.

http://coveragewars2.com/death.php

I think the table speaks for itself : the player base in general doesn’t like the new map (or maybe even the home borderland concept)

Warning : The page will be slow to load.

That’s quite interesting, and finally some objective stats to add to the debate.

Thx.

Is there still something to debate?

The idea of having 3 gigantic borderland maps in each tier just doesn’t work. Maybe it would be better if there was only 1 copy of it per tier or maybe it would be better with a different and much smaller map.

Yep great stats and something Anet should show during their morning meetings.

But we all know how that would end.

Anet dev: “Look at this chart people. Its not that we failed, of course we didnt fail. Sorry to say, we didnt anticipate just how much into PvE the WvW community really is. We’re making a new border map with 4 terrain levels, more events, more mobs and completely revamped point system that is based on raid boss kills in keeps. That will surely improve the popularity of borders. Get working on it right away! Oh and do tell the community that we’ve been working on it for a year now, that’ll shut them up for a few months.”

I want to hire Afala as my accountant.
Great stats to demonstrate things we all have been saying. While sad, because we have all seen the impact of the expansion, at least they cannot justify or wrongfully justify the need to keep those maps based on some hidden metric that are about as useful as tarot cards. Those cards also said that a saturday reset would be more….popular?
I wonder how those metrics are coming to fruition

Akkeros.1675:

I wonder how those metrics are coming to fruition

It’s directly available in the API.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/API:2/wvw/matches

This is really cool!

What kind of numbers you think would mean a good and successful map? Can we know how much kills and deaths / week there used to be in the alpine borders?

I had no idea the problem is this big, I play mostly on borderlands during prime time and there has been fights going on every time I play wvw, but this really shows how empty the maps are compared to EB.

Coinhead.7591:

This is really cool!

What kind of numbers you think would mean a good and successful map? Can we know how much kills and deaths / week there used to be in the alpine borders?

I had no idea the problem is this big, I play mostly on borderlands during prime time and there has been fights going on every time I play wvw, but this really shows how empty the maps are compared to EB.

Thx.

For me, a good balance would be kills / points = roughly constant on all maps. There is 260 points coming from EBG and 145 points per borderland for a total of 695 points. For the 3 borderlands together there is 3 * 145 = 435 points

Tier 1 EBG : 54347 Kills / 260 points = 209 kills per point
Tier 1 3 BL : 29242 Kills / 435 points = 67 kills per point

It’s not normal that there is such a huge gap. The 3 maps together represent nearly the double in points but have together only around 50% of the activity EBG.

If we want to have the same level of activity in the borderland maps they needs to be much smaller.

I’m surprised at how many people apparently die to gravity and PvE. I’d expect a few, but that seems like quite a lot.

With the new PPK system to be introduced the abuse of killing alt chars on zombie accounts will reach new heights.

RedBaron.6058:

With the new PPK system to be introduced the abuse of killing alt chars on zombie accounts will reach new heights.

Btw, PPK will not make much of difference if at all. Especially in lower tiers.

For example, in tier 8, the total score is around 728 000 while the total kills is around 5500. The kills will not even represent 1% of the score at the end of the week…

Gudradain.3892:

RedBaron.6058:

With the new PPK system to be introduced the abuse of killing alt chars on zombie accounts will reach new heights.

Btw, PPK will not make much of difference if at all. Especially in lower tiers.

For example, in tier 8, the total score is around 728 000 while the total kills is around 5500. The kills will not even represent 1% of the score at the end of the week…

So by my math using your numbers=722500 is PvD, lol.

Thanks for these interesting statistics

This just further proves that the new borderlands are an epic fail. EBG alone has many times more kills than all the 3 BL maps combined. Surely somebody will once again come to defend the new BLs “players just need to adopt to it”, but think if Valve would remove all the existing CounterStrike maps and replace them with something totally different, lots of verticality and places to fall to your death, enviromental hazards, full of pve, complexity, massively large and takes 10+ minutes to find the first enemy, how would the players react?

Also it shows the huge population and activity difference between different tiers.

This is awesome Afala. Great way for us to see Anet’s metrics.

Ahahahahahaaaaa! Call me in early 2017, if anything actually changes.

Deniara Devious.3948:

Thanks for these interesting statistics

This just further proves that the new borderlands are an epic fail. EBG alone has many times more kills than all the 3 BL maps combined. Surely somebody will once again come to defend the new BLs “players just need to adopt to it”, but think if Valve would remove all the existing CounterStrike maps and replace them with something totally different, lots of verticality and places to fall to your death, enviromental hazards, full of pve, complexity, massively large and takes 10+ minutes to find the first enemy, how would the players react?

Also it shows the huge population and activity difference between different tiers.

If only had pre HoT stats to compare. BL’s were not very active for some tiers pre HoT for a long time. Its true the new map made that worse for some tiers. I spent a lot of time in bronze and I mostly hung around in EBG map since it was just easier and faster to find people to fight..

Thank you for this. I was asking for this kind of info just last night.

Daddar.5971:

Ahahahahahaaaaa! Call me in early 2017, if anything actually changes.

Your number still 1-800-eat-a-skritt?

Question Gudradain, can you get/post the same sort of numbers from EotM? I am very curious how active that is compared to normal WvW.

I don’t think there is an API for EotM. Is there?

It would be hard due to the multiple overflows.

I’m guessing most of those extra deaths are people falling off cliffs?

I love looking at this. It’s so fascinating. I particularly noticed T3, which still has a lot of activity. All 3 of the BLs, as of this writing, Wednesday afternoon, has 15% of the activity of EB.

I think this also proves one can do away with the bottom 3 tiers.

MaximillianVonSchatten.6278:

I’m guessing most of those extra deaths are people falling off cliffs?

And dieing to npc’s

are there any of these type of stats available for EU?

Edge of the Mists numbers?

Twinny.9304:

are there any of these type of stats available for EU?

The API doesn’t deliver them for EU.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/community/api/WvWvW-API/first#post5947134

I am in doubt that these numbers are correct for NA.
Deaths can only be larger than Kills, if the system also counts suicides (falling to death, dc while in combat without being hit) as deads without killer (Kills can be larger than Deads as a single kill can be credited to both other server).

Any 0 as kills or deaths is very unlikely to be true, also that T4 has 0 kills/deaths over all maps is very, very unlikely.

So if the API is that buggy, it’s impossible to draw conclusions from the numbers it delivers.

Swagger.1459:

Edge of the Mists numbers?

Unfortunately no API for EotM. You wouldn’t know which map anyway.
EDIT: See http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/API:Main for all available API services.

Swagger.1459:

Edge of the Mists numbers?

0 kills, lots of deaths from falling. 100+ objectives captures.

RIP WvW……and who dies to NPCs lol

More like it takes double the time to cross the map in Desert BLs so even to fight anyone openfield it is rare.

I bet most of the deaths on Desert BLs are from fall damage / lava.

Dayra.7405:

Twinny.9304:

are there any of these type of stats available for EU?

The API doesn’t deliver them for EU.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/community/api/WvWvW-API/first#post5947134

I am in doubt that these numbers are correct for NA.
Deaths can only be larger than Kills, if the system also counts suicides (falling to death, dc while in combat without being hit) as deads without killer (Kills can be larger than Deads as a single kill can be credited to both other server).

Any 0 as kills or deaths is very unlikely to be true, also that T4 has 0 kills/deaths over all maps is very, very unlikely.

So if the API is that buggy, it’s impossible to draw conclusions from the numbers it delivers.

Swagger.1459:

Edge of the Mists numbers?

Unfortunately no API for EotM. You wouldn’t know which map anyway.

Thanks for the answer.

Just wondering, have you checked into it?

With the proper “channels” opened to gather info, wouldn’t it be possible to do the same?

Gudradain.3892:

Thx.

Is there still something to debate?

Actually, yes.

Does anyone have the same information on pre-new maps? The reason I ask is that in the Tiers I have been in, and after having been on SoR thru the whole rise and fall means saw some of all of them at one point, EB has always had more fights then the home borderlands since all three sides have the same playing field.

Leaving likes or dislikes aside or debating if people like or don’t, unless we can also see the percentages of how much the home maps were played prior to the switch over we can’t tell if the stats are the same or different.

Are there any APIs that pull older data out of the game? Not sure I have seen anyone mention one.

And cool use of the API, nice one.

They had 1 full year since they last tested PPK and don’t even have kill stats as they bring the feature back. They didn’t even bother doing a scoreboard. that’s not to mention guild rankings (and all the stats associated, kill and captures).

They don’t even have a kittening background image for the new Borderlands maps.

What you are doing is great, but that kitten should be in the game, we shouldn’t need to alt-tab game just to see the points.

TheGrimm.5624:

Gudradain.3892:

Thx.

Is there still something to debate?

Actually, yes.

Does anyone have the same information on pre-new maps? The reason I ask is that in the Tiers I have been in, and after having been on SoR thru the whole rise and fall means saw some of all of them at one point, EB has always had more fights then the home borderlands since all three sides have the same playing field.

Leaving likes or dislikes aside or debating if people like or don’t, unless we can also see the percentages of how much the home maps were played prior to the switch over we can’t tell if the stats are the same or different.

Are there any APIs that pull older data out of the game? Not sure I have seen anyone mention one.

And cool use of the API, nice one.

How many home bl/defense oriented guilds do you see left?
For example Ehmry Bay had Ebay, Gates of Madness had GoM, etc…
Just compare their numbers in matches to what you see now and ask yourself where you see them more often now. How many active defenders do you see in fully fortified home bl keeps now?
To me it has been a total night and day difference. But that is just on my server, yours may be different.

Jayne.9251:

That’s quite interesting, and finally some objective stats to add to the debate.

Don’t know if you can even call this a debate.
but here it is, i termed it as a redundant factor

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/World-vs-World-Holiday-Sneak-Peek/page/11

Akkeros.1675:

How many home bl/defense oriented guilds do you see left?
For example Ehmry Bay had Ebay, Gates of Madness had GoM, etc…
Just compare their numbers in matches to what you see now and ask yourself where you see them more often now. How many active defenders do you see in fully fortified home bl keeps now?
To me it has been a total night and day difference. But that is just on my server, yours may be different.

Most of these people moved on from the game before the new maps since WvW had grown stale. Population was already in decline at that time. Hadn’t seen what you were referring for a long time, maybe year and half and some of that depended on tiers. Saw more of that in lower tiers and less defense forces the higher up. Point remains, EB has always draw more people since each side has equal footing. That’s a home versus EB thing more than an alpine vs desert issue.

yeah, like i said, its also tier dependent.
I knew higher tiers didn’t put effort to defense.
Also, prior to the expendable expansion many knew changes were coming for HoT and didn’t wanna invest time and effort into builds that were gonna get reworked; thus, they took a break and waited to see what was coming.
In my tier (thus bias to my observations only), pugmanders lead ebg on reset while zerg busting (wvw only guilds) would stay at home with home defense if needed or if home defense had enough would go to enemy bl, flip, pressure, then move to ebg when pops started to settle down.
However, our home defense still existed and actually had grown quite a bit up until HoT. Now, 2 of the 3 leaders are gone and when I do see them (home defense) there is usually only 1or 2 at home and rest in ebg.

tl;dr
all i know is there was always something to defend at home before (bay especially), we always had ppl there, but if incredibly overwhelmed you called in the reinforcements. Now, you can call all you want (if there is someone to make the call) but no response.