Guild Wars 2

The most recent balance patch is another nail in the coffin of WvW. While in PvP things are SLIGHTLY (and only slightly) more rounded, WvW is a complete and total mess for the following reasons related to the classes:

Elementalist: average player utilizing full aura build takes over 10 people focusing to down. Recently with a 20 man zerg, another commander actually walked away from a tower because nobody could damage the freaking elementalist beyond a quarter of it’s hp. Seems insane, but is incredibly easy to recreate.

Thief: I’m expecting that next patch they will rename this class to Eunuch. Lowest effective armor by far in the game, lowest effective damage overall (yes staff can hit hard…if it hits, but less frequent and for less effect than other classes) even when running the tankiest possible builds. Thief is designed to get in and out of a fight quickly…high risk, high reward…. only now there is no reward. If you’re getting taken out by a thief in WvW, and you’re not playing a thief, something is wrong with your build. (I’m saying this as someone who mains thief). I’ve run both full condi, and full dps… the class has become completely ineffective.

Mesmer: Condi-shatter Mesmer is the winner of this latest patch. With the possible exception of the aura elementalist, an average player can melt just about anything, oftentimes with only their clones being visible. They’ve also got the toughness now, so if you’re playing this class you’re likely a happy camper after latest patch.

Guardian: Traps are back with an annoying vengeance, without having to sacrifice toughness like when they first debutted. While not as clear a winner as some this patch. Still out of touch in WvW.

Ranger: Another one that I haven’t noticed a huge difference in play. They are still pretty much invincible in an underwater fight because their pet heals faster than 3 people can deal damage, but this patch doesn’t appear to have drastically changed their regular m.o.

Revenant: Broken. It doesn’t seem like they actually improved much of anything with revenant… the things that could use improvement they left untouched… so will be interesting to see next patch.

Warrior- currently gets my vote for most busted class. They’ve been put on scout duty because they can go afk until they hear something on that monitor… by then they’ll be at about 50% health… pop their invuln and walk away. Yet they can still oneshot a thief while they are still running their shield protection skill.

Necromancer: Minion master is insane. That is all.

Overall what all this powercreep (for most classes) has led to are these ridiculous zerg battles and siege humps… where your warriors, ele’s and necro’s can’t really kill each other, if they even fight open field. It’s reducing turnover in a game mode that desperately needs life injected into it. In PvP, people build for the most damage in the shortest period of time, in WvW they build nowadays simply to live as long as possible, damage be kitten ed. Anet would do well to examine some of the game-breaking defenses of most the classes, (and while they are at it, examine the classes that have none) and come out with an update sooner than later. WvW currently has gaping wounds, and those little band-aids that you use on a papercut are not going to help it.

This is either a joke thread or you really don’t understand any of those professions well.

Depressingly accurate.

I actually don’t think the last patch has affected wvw a lot; as it left boon-share untouched, doesn’t really address the problems of elite-professions being overpowered over vanilla etc.

Minion masters are not really a good option anymore btw. Since maybe 1.5.-2 years or so.

Exciton.8942:

This is either a joke thread or you really don’t understand any of those professions well.

I think you could round it up to most things in the game including the balance patch.

Then again this is all explained by the words “thief main”.

It’s just a huge design flaw that WvW operate with PVE values and Stats. Conversion to the PVP system and balance is not a big problem.

Going by the descriptions, I didnt even need to read that OP mains thief/dd.

Because every class except mine is always super OP even though I am super awesome and everyone I meet is a noob and suck, so their classes have to be OP by definition and carry them.

“balance” patch.

How do you kill what is already dead?

Jeknar.6184:

How do you kill what is already dead?

Blunt force trauma to the brain.

If you ask such a stupid question you aint ever gonna survive the zombie apocalypse.

Lol’d at the Thief being high risk high reward line.

Usually a full aura Ele isn’t going to be doing much DPS so just ignore him and go about your business.

“Thief main, Thief main..”
The other day I asked a buddy of mine how wvw is on NA. He’s from my first server, transferred to a T1 server before the merge when he finally couldn’t pretend anymore that things were going uphill – so he’s on a T1 server, a warrior main actually. He got used to EotM when things were going bad in lower NA tiers. He told me EotM was dead and I said that that is weird, because I expected wvw to be dead before it. He said that wvw is bleeding players like crazy. I asked why he thinks that is. He said: “Balance sucks, also we’re all doing too much damage”.
Maybe it is because thieves hoped for a proper balance patch the most and actually, although Daredevil is just as annoying as any other elite, it still is UP in comparison of other elites. Don’t be fooled to think that there’s any balance in this game at all, just because you main something different.
Haven’t been in the gvg scene since forever, but I guess there’s not a lot of gvg guilds around anymore and they are a good indicator whether or not GW2/wvw is balanced. A lot quit soon after HoT and I don’t think any of them came back.

ETA: Actually, after I thought some more about this:
Remember GvG guilds which were the reason why we have Arenas in Guild Halls? Just that no one uses them – kind of sad, isn’kitten If you think some more about it: HoT destroyed GW2 – because everything that came with HoT just killed the game. In my opinion it really is the (lack of) balance that causes all the problems we have now. Back in the day open PvE was actually challenging, but we need all kinds of powercreep now so people can live through the HoT maps (nonsense, you can well do without) – which is destroying the rest of the game, but who cares, right?

I just read the first arguments and i see Elementalist recreate hp….well is the only thing that he can make…..remove healing from elementalist, and after all of us ca do engineers or guardians like you and the game will be named Guard engi wars 2…..elementalist with last build dont have anymore damage only thing can still do is healling ,,remove tha too trololol…you like to win easy dont you?

I got on warrior, slapped on a metabuild and hit three buttons and instadowned people left and right. I don’t even know what I’m doing cause I main necro.

I can’t imagine what would happen if I actually was good at the game and mained warrior.

Warrior=Brock Lesnar

I LOL’ed hard at the Elementalist comment. Sure they can still be tanky AF but there’s no way they’re gonna tank/outheal a 20 man zerg. They’re just most probably only tanking when they have Obsidian Flesh ready then runs away and hides when it’s on CD. Too much exaggeration won’t help.

Kyon.9735:

I LOL’ed hard at the Elementalist comment. Sure they can still be tanky AF but there’s no way they’re gonna tank/outheal a 20 man zerg. They’re just most probably only tanking when they have Obsidian Flesh ready then runs away and hides when it’s on CD. Too much exaggeration won’t help.

And that’s exactly why players shouldn’t be the ones that balance a game – would be great to finally have a balance team with at least 9 pros (one each class) who are paid for playing this game in pve, wvw and pvp.
The moment we have our first balance patch made by these pros in will be the moment I’ll buy the equivalent of HoT in gems.

This patch totally killed WvW. I went to play on reset but no one was there on a T1 server. I’m being serious guys.

Lahmia.2193:

This patch totally killed WvW. I went to play on reset but no one was there on a T1 server. I’m being serious guys.

Play for an hour this evening (PRIME TIME) , a few SBI guys attacking our bay maybe 10 with like 6 DH/ebay on home BL. Sad state and dying quicker than ever.

The death bed has been prepared.

Jana.6831:

ETA: Actually, after I thought some more about this:
Remember GvG guilds which were the reason why we have Arenas in Guild Halls? Just that no one uses them – kind of sad, isn’kitten If you think some more about it: HoT destroyed GW2 – because everything that came with HoT just killed the game. In my opinion it really is the (lack of) balance that causes all the problems we have now. Back in the day open PvE was actually challenging, but we need all kinds of powercreep now so people can live through the HoT maps (nonsense, you can well do without) – which is destroying the rest of the game, but who cares, right?

You didnt think hard enough. The powercreep began long before HoT when the entire stat system changed from part build based to entirerly gear based, especially ferocity. This allowed classes to go to extremes with no sacrifices.

With sPvP changes Anet has also made it very clear that you are not allowed to be tanky/healer, you are supposed to build for damage.

Dawdler.8521:

You didnt think hard enough. The powercreep began long before HoT when the entire stat system changed from part build based to entirerly gear based, especially ferocity. This allowed classes to go to extremes with no sacrifices.

I didn’t think hard enough right. Where exactly?
And I don’t really get what you mean – yes the ferocity patch made every roamer run around in zerker, but I guess the reason was that tanky gear made them too weak, they had to be glass cannons to have a chance to kill their opponent. In least in my case this was so – have been soldier’s before the patch, valk/zerker afterwards.

Dawdler.8521:

With sPvP changes Anet has also made it very clear that you are not allowed to be tanky/healer, you are supposed to build for damage.

Well, they just introduced a trinity and the pvp team is not responsible for the balance in this game – it should be kind of obvious since we still have all kinds of stats in wvw wheras pvp is heavily restricted.

ETA: In case you mean I didn’t think hard enough because “I forgot the ferocity patch”. It had it’s own problems, yes, but I was talking about GvG guilds in the paragraph you quoted. Most of them left because they can’t work around the nonbalance since HoT anymore.

Dawdler.8521:

Going by the descriptions, I didnt even need to read that OP mains thief/dd.

Because every class except mine is always super OP even though I am super awesome and everyone I meet is a noob and suck, so their classes have to be OP by definition and carry them.

I use my thief more often than I play the other classes… I have logged into my other characters, and in about 2 and a half minutes managed to recreate the other builds I’m seeing and tested them out. Warriors is particularly awful, for that I didn’t even wear armor… still worked.

I suggested in another post that perhaps ANET is going about balance patches from the wrong angle. Once a quarter the release these big patches hitting all classes at once, creating new issues, when it may be better to look at a class or two at a time, spend a month making tweaks to bring them in line with the others. Hopefully that way we can lessen the powercreep and get the medium armor classes back in the game (engi is kinda still there but usually squads and pvp groups want “primary classes” which excludes thief, ranger, and usually engi unless you have the perfect build.

I don’t really get why you guys hijack your own threads – why are you talking about pve (I guess that’s squads) and pvp now if you want balance in wvw? Then say what you want and need in wvw, screw the other modes.

And yes, some more frequent and reversible balance changes would be appreciated.

If a 20 man zerg couldn’t damage an Ele beyond a quarter of it’s HP … the Ele really isn’t the problem.

Squads is a WvW reference Jana.

lold at trap are back….guardian update…w/o have to sacrifice toughness :|?

explain this please.

When HoT came out, if you were going to one shot light/medium builds with traps, you’d set all your traps on top of each other and walk away…but in order to get that amount of damage in, you’d need a glass build. Since the patch, I’m noticing that we’re again seeing the one shot uber-trap again after nearly completely disappearing the patch prior. Only now they are much less glassy then they were before.

Like i said before, the only sustain we have atm it is a extra block on mace…
People are still glassy maybe it is the symbols+traps?

Wich simbols are VEEERY visible if DH’s are comboing with traps :|

That zerg must have been tripping on weed or something. You can make a pretty tanky ele, but 20+ players shouldn’t be giving up on capping a tower because a single ele is contesting it. As for your comment about guardians, if you’re dying to traps you are simply bad at the game. I’m sorry about being so blunt about it.

Honestly, this entire thread is just junk. It’s better articulated than your usual "everyone else is OP but me’ post, but it’s still inherently incorrect in so many ways. I highly suspect the OP was driven by emotions when he/she posted it. OP, please actually play all the classes in-depth before commenting on balance in this manner.

Jana.6831:

I don’t really get why you guys hijack your own threads – why are you talking about pve (I guess that’s squads) and pvp now if you want balance in wvw? Then say what you want and need in wvw, screw the other modes.

People are talking about PVE in the context that balance patches designed for that mode are also being applied in WvW. Most people want anet to do separate balancing for WvW, or at the very least apply PVP balancing to it.

OP is so out of touch, not even going to rebut this stupidity.

Wow, threads on these forums are getting worse and worse. Seems like most of the people that aren’t completely stupid have either left or stopped bothering to read this crap. I think I’m not far off myself. There’s maybe 5 people here that are laughing about the ridiculousness of the OP and other comments while the rest are totally convinced it’s accurate. I don’t know if it’s all new players or if it’s the kind of players elite specs have bred but very little about OP’s post or many of the comments after it are even close to true.

Yes my Thief is really struggling in WvW now. My Unloads only do 12-13K each against other squishes. My AoE damage with an evade skill, Vault, only seems to do 14K damage. My dagger auto-attack chain only does 7K damage in around 1.5 seconds. My unblockable distance closer, Shadow Shot, does just 6K per use. It’s a good thing that I can’t use these skills more than once in quick succession!

Also my dodge rolls seem to do just 5K AoE and my Impairing Daggers with Mug combo only seems to do 8K damage as an opener – it’s horrible. Also, my Basilisk that I was already using also happens to be applied to people around me with absolutely no investment. I can also chain multiple dodge sources with a bit of stealth to exit almost any encounter. It’s absolutely miserable and impossible to play!

Link.1049:

Squads is a WvW reference Jana.

Ok. Then I’m very lucky as I can run with any closed guild (I don’t join the squad) on my server and have never been kicked out of any squad. And I have never read that anyone isn’t welcome – but I can well imagine that it is different on other servers.

Tyrx.2471:

People are talking about PVE in the context that balance patches designed for that mode are also being applied in WvW. Most people want anet to do separate balancing for WvW, or at the very least apply PVP balancing to it.

Link wasn’t – and you have a point but if this thread derailed to talk about what PvE raids need it would’ve been rather useless – because nothing is easier than tweaking PvE mobs.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Wow, threads on these forums are getting worse and worse. Seems like most of the people that aren’t completely stupid have either left or stopped bothering to read this crap. I think I’m not far off myself. There’s maybe 5 people here that are laughing about the ridiculousness of the OP and other comments while the rest are totally convinced it’s accurate. I don’t know if it’s all new players or if it’s the kind of players elite specs have bred but very little about OP’s post or many of the comments after it are even close to true.

A good argument. Might have been a bit better if you had said what you think is wrong instead of just calling everybody “stupid”.
In the end: it’s very hard for a player to judge what exactly on another class is OP. I know that daredevil is and I know that warrior/berserker is from reading the traits alone. But other than that – no idea, I just know that combat in wvw is out of control.

The counter question: You seem to think that combat in wvw is fine (I’m not entirely sure because your post is very vague) – then why is wvw dying? Because we don’t have portable cannons yet?

Simonoly.4352:

Yes my Thief is really struggling in WvW now. My Unloads only do 12-13K each against other squishes. My AoE damage with an evade skill, Vault, only seems to do 14K damage. My dagger auto-attack chain only does 7K damage in around 1.5 seconds. My unblockable distance closer, Shadow Shot, does just 6K per use. It’s a good thing that I can’t use these skills more than once in quick succession!

Also my dodge rolls seem to do just 5K AoE and my Impairing Daggers with Mug combo only seems to do 8K damage as an opener – it’s horrible. Also, my Basilisk that I was already using also happens to be applied to people around me with absolutely no investment. I can also chain multiple dodge sources with a bit of stealth to exit almost any encounter. It’s absolutely miserable and impossible to play!

This sarcasm is killing me, stop!

Jeknar.6184:

Simonoly.4352:

Yes my Thief is really struggling in WvW now. My Unloads only do 12-13K each against other squishes. My AoE damage with an evade skill, Vault, only seems to do 14K damage. My dagger auto-attack chain only does 7K damage in around 1.5 seconds. My unblockable distance closer, Shadow Shot, does just 6K per use. It’s a good thing that I can’t use these skills more than once in quick succession!

Also my dodge rolls seem to do just 5K AoE and my Impairing Daggers with Mug combo only seems to do 8K damage as an opener – it’s horrible. Also, my Basilisk that I was already using also happens to be applied to people around me with absolutely no investment. I can also chain multiple dodge sources with a bit of stealth to exit almost any encounter. It’s absolutely miserable and impossible to play!

This sarcasm is killing me, stop!

Yeah, he forgot to tell you his unblockable sarcasm damage is 15k, unbuffed! I hope Anet nerfs that sarcasm trait, it’s OP!

Jeknar.6184:

Simonoly.4352:

Yes my Thief is really struggling in WvW now. My Unloads only do 12-13K each against other squishes. My AoE damage with an evade skill, Vault, only seems to do 14K damage. My dagger auto-attack chain only does 7K damage in around 1.5 seconds. My unblockable distance closer, Shadow Shot, does just 6K per use. It’s a good thing that I can’t use these skills more than once in quick succession!

Also my dodge rolls seem to do just 5K AoE and my Impairing Daggers with Mug combo only seems to do 8K damage as an opener – it’s horrible. Also, my Basilisk that I was already using also happens to be applied to people around me with absolutely no investment. I can also chain multiple dodge sources with a bit of stealth to exit almost any encounter. It’s absolutely miserable and impossible to play!

This sarcasm is killing me, stop!

And sarcasm doesnt even reveal him.

I imagine 1 year from now, we’ll see another thread about how wvw is completely dead or on its deathbed. You’d think that 3+ years after all this doom and gloom started, that it should be true by now…….but am still waiting.

Link.1049:

Necromancer: Minion master is insane. That is all.

Who the hell runs around wvw as a minionmancer?

Teon.5168:

I imagine 1 year from now, we’ll see another thread about how wvw is completely dead or on its deathbed. You’d think that 3+ years after all this doom and gloom started, that it should be true by now…….but am still waiting.

There have been several massive population dips. WvW today is nothing like it was 2-3 years ago; abolishing tiers and linking servers isn’t a sign of vitality, rofl.

If you cant play thief, go away. Its the easiest class for wvw roaming atm, (jump in – nuke – low hp? run away/stealth – heal – nuke again)x repeat
8k Backstab on my 2,7k toughness rev + protection? Oh yes, underpowered.

Best way to solve this issue is put a couple devs part time on watching the meta build sites… We all know what they are no point listing them here. Each week they make small tweeks to destroy the most current metas. There is a problem when you see 10 of any one class and 9 are all playing the same metas. Original does not mean you play the meta with a single utility skill change or a slight change on armor stats. BTW, the talk about MM’s…. play a necro for one day and you will never die to another MM, they are way to easy to counter.

Jeknar.6184:

Simonoly.4352:

Yes my Thief is really struggling in WvW now. My Unloads only do 12-13K each against other squishes. My AoE damage with an evade skill, Vault, only seems to do 14K damage. My dagger auto-attack chain only does 7K damage in around 1.5 seconds. My unblockable distance closer, Shadow Shot, does just 6K per use. It’s a good thing that I can’t use these skills more than once in quick succession!

Also my dodge rolls seem to do just 5K AoE and my Impairing Daggers with Mug combo only seems to do 8K damage as an opener – it’s horrible. Also, my Basilisk that I was already using also happens to be applied to people around me with absolutely no investment. I can also chain multiple dodge sources with a bit of stealth to exit almost any encounter. It’s absolutely miserable and impossible to play!

This sarcasm is killing me, stop!

Sorry I had a whole weekend where I couldn’t be sarcastic to anyone around me, so I just had to let it out in this post.

xev.9476:

Teon.5168:

I imagine 1 year from now, we’ll see another thread about how wvw is completely dead or on its deathbed. You’d think that 3+ years after all this doom and gloom started, that it should be true by now…….but am still waiting.

There have been several massive population dips. WvW today is nothing like it was 2-3 years ago; abolishing tiers and linking servers isn’t a sign of vitality, rofl.

Agreed that the population has dipped from 2-3 years ago. But that is typical of any older mmorpg. If you think that the numbers have “massively dropped”, I would love to see some hard data/links on that, rather than just conjecture.

Simonoly.4352:

Jeknar.6184:

Simonoly.4352:

Yes my Thief is really struggling in WvW now. My Unloads only do 12-13K each against other squishes. My AoE damage with an evade skill, Vault, only seems to do 14K damage. My dagger auto-attack chain only does 7K damage in around 1.5 seconds. My unblockable distance closer, Shadow Shot, does just 6K per use. It’s a good thing that I can’t use these skills more than once in quick succession!

Also my dodge rolls seem to do just 5K AoE and my Impairing Daggers with Mug combo only seems to do 8K damage as an opener – it’s horrible. Also, my Basilisk that I was already using also happens to be applied to people around me with absolutely no investment. I can also chain multiple dodge sources with a bit of stealth to exit almost any encounter. It’s absolutely miserable and impossible to play!

This sarcasm is killing me, stop!

Sorry I had a whole weekend where I couldn’t be sarcastic to anyone around me, so I just had to let it out in this post.

On a non-sarcastic note, I’m curious as to what kind of build you’re running, as running a glassy dps build the only time I’m pulling numbers around 10k is if I get a backstab in on a tower supervisor with several stacks of might.

Xenesis.6389:

Link.1049:

Necromancer: Minion master is insane. That is all.

Who the hell runs around wvw as a minionmancer?

I don’t know them, but I see one every once in a while.

Not counting Minionmancer nights, which several guilds I’ve belonged to have done…

This patch really can’t kill WvW. It added nothing, it removed nothing. In the WvW feature department, at least. Profession balance is aggravating to say the least. Has the zerg meta changed yet? Nope. Has the roaming/small scale meta changed? A lot of things are worse now except for Warrior, which was already the best, so WvW was clearly ignored. WvW as a whole wasn’t really hurt, but many people are unhappy because the professions and builds they like don’t just get little nerfs; they get blown up. Here’s my perspective:

My Ele stopped being fun when HoT released, because D/D died and support D/F ele became the big thing. My Necro stopped being fun when chill was gutted, because it couldn’t handle the op sustain builds anymore, and now my Engi is taking a hit. The only other thing I like playing in small scale WvW is my condi longbow ranger, which thankfully got buffs instead of nerfs. However, my range of classes was nerfed from 4 down to 1 or 2 since HoT released because what I liked to play was gutted. This is what makes people quit the game during these patches. I play with a lot of professions. Some people only like to play specific playstyles, which get all but deleted because they were strong in another format. With the thing they put all of their time into gone, these people quit.
Why do I stay around? Robert Gee has done some really good things in the past for Necro, so I believe that profession balance may actually stop making me angry one day, and I want to be a Tengu, so I’ll wait for that.

Thelgar.7214:

Xenesis.6389:

Link.1049:

Necromancer: Minion master is insane. That is all.

Who the hell runs around wvw as a minionmancer?

I don’t know them, but I see one every once in a while.

Not counting Minionmancer nights, which several guilds I’ve belonged to have done…

Probably pve people just running around, wvw necros have more important skills to be carrying around these days than poison bombing with pets.

Yeah done the minionmancer raids too, about the most fun class to do a class raid with.

Did not read anything beside the title, but if you would scan the forum for all threads with titles of XZY killed WvW, you probably noticed that it already got killed several hundred times

agreed:

especially the nerf to ele – thief – engineer.

wtf with ranger buff.

Now Guild wars 2 feels like CoD/ counter strike.

wtf. happen to using skills to kill people?