Guild Wars 2

Hi ANET, I wanted to caution you about this league system. I know you’ve already gotten a fair bit of commentary good and bad about this league system. Here is why this system will fail. I will keep the QQ and Raging out of it so this is an informative post from a player on the server Strombluff Isle.

1) Had you revealed this league system the day it was enacted, perhaps it would be more effective. Since you have warned people that their day 1 server will equal their ending reward, you should realize that this has instilled panic in the servers who are very unlikely to win their league. Their guilds are not thinking “hmm how can we recruit people to this server, they are thinking, hmm where can we go to get good rewards and how fast can we leave?”

2) Building off point #1, people will be forging mass Exodus from their old servers into new servers likely to receive rewards when the system is released. This will probably be repeated every time a new league match is set up. Guilds will flock to servers likely to get rewards, and as a result the 13-15 ranked servers could be flooded with transfers and in reality be much stronger than half the servers in the top bracket. This has already happened on SBI. Half of the Devona’s Rest guilds have come to SBI (We of course welcomed them), but the players on DR are probably panicing and considering a server transfer now. That server has no chance of receiving rewards and is likely going to die.

3) The resulting exodus every time league matches are about to start will of course kill all community ties guilds have developed with other guilds in their community. People will flock to trendy servers and communities that had been in place since day 1 will be destroyed. These exoduses have already been happening since the launch of the game, but when they are incentivized by rewards, they will happen much more often.

4) The end of the community ties will end up diminishing people’s interest in the game. You can keep adding trinkets, rewards, shiny things, and reasons for people to stay, but the social aspect of WvW on servers will be destroyed. People who don’t usually play WvW will come on demanding the capture of certain towers, or god forbid killing the grub for achievement points, and happily afk while the people interested in playing in WvW do so.

5) This will start bickering even within servers between PvE oriented players and WvW oriented players. I know you want people to play all aspects of the game and deny there is such a thing as a PvE or a WvW oriented player, but this will happen. WvW players will get sick of PvE players ineptitude at the game, and since they will likely be fresh transfers, will feel no reason to spend time training the PUGs. This will add to server drama, and contribute to community implosions.

6) The end game is communities will die, players will lose interest, and the social aspect of GW2 will be totally crap and nobody will want to play it. The rewards won’t force servers to work together, they will drive them apart when people aren’t winning. I’ve played enough MMOs to know that people are a lot quicker to start playing the blame game when things are tough than they are to rally and fix the problem. You might hope for the best case scenario, but it will never happen. Server instability will only be settled down when people leave the game entirely.

7/Conclusion) I know Anet may think this is a great idea for their bottom lines as the server transfers will increase gem sales, but it isn’t worth it. You are throwing away the long term revenue by cornering people into the options of staying with a divided community, or move to an unknown winning community. This is a game, you can’t count on people to stick it out, they will find somewhere with less drama and instability, and perhaps most importantly a community they can depend on for more than the next 7 weeks. I would imagine that somewhere won’t be a new server in GW2, it will be a different game.

Sorry for the length of this post, thanks everyone for reading and commenting and hopefully we get a response from Devon.

If this thread gets any interest, i’ll save this reply for some solutions I had in mind for the league system to make every server content with their current position.

No one will “flock” when a server transfer is 80 Gold and the reward is less than that.

also: “The rewards for finishing 2nd in the Bronze League will be markedly better than the rewards for finishing 6th in the Gold league.”

LilMcGinley.3890:

No one will “flock” when a server transfer is 80 Gold and the reward is less than that.

also: “The rewards for finishing 2nd in the Bronze League will be markedly better than the rewards for finishing 6th in the Gold league.”

Which is why I said the 13-15 ranked servers may end up being markedly better than the mid ranked gold league servers. And clearly you didn’t read my post because just this week we had 100+ people from Devona’s Rest transfer to SBI. Clearly they are flocking, and clearly you’re not informed.

Radioactive.1248:

LilMcGinley.3890:

No one will “flock” when a server transfer is 80 Gold and the reward is less than that.

also: “The rewards for finishing 2nd in the Bronze League will be markedly better than the rewards for finishing 6th in the Gold league.”

Which is why I said the 13-15 ranked servers may end up being markedly better than the mid ranked gold league servers. And clearly you didn’t read my post because just this week we had 100+ people from Devona’s Rest transfer to SBI. Clearly they are flocking, and clearly you’re not informed.

Isn’t that what everyone has been complaining about lately? Getting more people to lower ranked servers?

and half of your points have already been answered by Devs in other threads, no need to reread what I’ve already seen.

What are you even talking about Devona’s Rest is ranked lower than SBI. You’re so uninformed it’s mind boggling.

People will move upwards to get rewards, no question. Transfer fees aren’t even that much considering the other new content and the price tags there.

Lower level servers will be constantly at war with themselves between the guys who want to PvE and the guys who WvW, it already happens now. A real tangible prize will just ad more kitten to fling around. Oh and a hell of a lot of resentment since people who don’t even participate in WvW will be rewarded.

Oroibahazopi.9074:

People will move upwards to get rewards, no question. Transfer fees aren’t even that much considering the other new content and the price tags there.

Lower level servers will be constantly at war with themselves between the guys who want to PvE and the guys who WvW, it already happens now. A real tangible prize will just ad more kitten to fling around. Oh and a hell of a lot of resentment since people who don’t even participate in WvW will be rewarded.

Actually..

“The rewards for finishing 2nd in the Bronze League will be markedly better than the rewards for finishing 6th in the Gold league.”

Meaning the winner of League 2 will probably get better rewards than 4-12 in League 1. If I was on DB or FA, I’d be moving down to #12-14 to get better rewards.

So the top 3 in each league will be packed out while the rest lose players, doesn’t change the situation much.

Ok, I’m officially lost, is there somewhere that describes this new feature in detail ? By day 1 server does that means the server you originally rolled on or the server your currently on when this thing goes live.

Niim.9260:

I think creating a ‘competition’ out of what has everything to do with population and coverage and nothing at all to do with skill, is the most brain dead idea ANET has come up with in regards to WvW to date.

Rewarding players for balling up onto over populated servers is good for WvW how?

Yeah I think this is the most important point of all, big bottom line, I hope the rewards for ‘winning’ aren’t too attractive, wish Anet was focusing their energy on other ways to spice up WvW, the whole pretending your server beat others for reasons besides numbers and coverage is a bit silly…

I like the idea someone had in another thread of everyone proven to have actively participated in a matchup gets totaled and compared against the # of people they lost to and have their individual rewards boosted… just as one way to help this new ‘competition’ make any sense.

Stick a fork in DR we were already dead. Anet has been molesting us from day 1, every single one of these changes has made us even worse off than before. The straw that broke the camels back is now finally here.
-signed a ranger on DR

Nuzt.7894:

Ok, I’m officially lost, is there somewhere that describes this new feature in detail ? By day 1 server does that means the server you originally rolled on or the server your currently on when this thing goes live.

Your rewards are based on the server you’re on the day the league matchup starts. So between now and then, you can transfer wherever you want as long as it’s before this is added.

qualm like a bomb.6512:

Stick a fork in DR we were already dead. Anet has been molesting us from day 1, every single one of these changes has made us even worse off than before. The straw that broke the camels back is now finally here.

-signed a ranger on DR

A bit extreme don’t you think?

Sounds like you need a break.

LilMcGinley.3890:

Oroibahazopi.9074:

People will move upwards to get rewards, no question. Transfer fees aren’t even that much considering the other new content and the price tags there.

Lower level servers will be constantly at war with themselves between the guys who want to PvE and the guys who WvW, it already happens now. A real tangible prize will just ad more kitten to fling around. Oh and a hell of a lot of resentment since people who don’t even participate in WvW will be rewarded.

Actually..

“The rewards for finishing 2nd in the Bronze League will be markedly better than the rewards for finishing 6th in the Gold league.”

Meaning the winner of League 2 will probably get better rewards than 4-12 in League 1. If I was on DB or FA, I’d be moving down to #12-14 to get better rewards.

Agree. Really nice servers like SBI and IoJ are looking pretty attractive at the moment.

alright, CDzen, let’s lose again this week so that we will be in the middle league……

I agree this is a really anet idea and will suck for wvw. Way to encourage more zerging which is exactly what wvw doesn’t need.

Agree with the op. How can a league be introduced before server pop and coverage imbalance have been fixed? Its like that total reset idea that Anet had way back, ugh.
Think it through.

ANET does not think. They do. They are doers.

You guys need to wait until you hear the rewards. If the rewards are less valuable than the cost of a server transfer, no one will move because of the league. Sure, there will always be bandwagon individuals / guilds, but for the most part there will not be much movement.

League is good.

I guess you CAN kill what’s already dying.

Dream In A Dream.7213:

Agree with the op. How can a league be introduced before server pop and coverage imbalance have been fixed? Its like that total reset idea that Anet had way back, ugh.
Think it through.

Forces people to transfer=cash.

XII.9401:

I guess you CAN kill what’s already dying.

Eventually, after enough time (at this point, I think you’re on months) of repeating this, you will inevitably be right.

Might as well give up now and never try anything new, the Earth is going to be obliterated by the sun in a few billion years.

I think the league system is a great idea but I am concerned about transfers. I suspect that there will be a cluster of go-to servers which end up around the top/bottom of the various leagues. Actually… that seems like a good way to distribute players. I think the guys at the bottom of the bottom need to be thrown a bone tho.

Svarty.8019:

I think the league system is a great idea but I am concerned about transfers. I suspect that there will be a cluster of go-to servers which end up around the top/bottom of the various leagues. Actually… that seems like a good way to distribute players. I think the guys at the bottom of the bottom need to be thrown a bone tho.

This is why the suggestion for “Most Improved” receiving substantial rewards based on net rank shifts, would go a long way to encourage even CD to hold a single tower when faced with SoR as that single tower will probably bleed rating from SoR. :p

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Please-let-there-be-most-improved/first#post2748687

question for ANET : in the new league system, will server A meet server B more than once ?

Fail logic is a fail. U know how much time do u need to upgrade your guild to max into a new server? about 4 month and a lot of gold in influence, so 4 month without GM, only to win? ok u can transfer maybe the first time but I assure u, who win the first league couldn’t win the second one, so u what? Will u transfer again?
The league system will probably do the better for www, but it is a long term balancing system, so we have to work to our server, whatever position it is and create a good community, it’s useless, brainless and too much expensive transfer at each season only to get a stupid reward.

People are freaking out on this forum like it’s the end of the world every time Anet does something. It’s getting ridiculous.

Xillllix.3485:

People are freaking out on this forum like it’s the end of the world every time Anet does something. It’s getting ridiculous.

I’m sure if they decide to put a new minipet you can drop at every mobs of the game, between two updates (free content bcuz lack of content hurr), tons of people will whine for many reasons because stupdity rule humanity.

Wait.. I thought the current match up system was working and we should give it a chance according to Devon Carver..

What happened???

it didn’t work…. experiment failed

Xillllix.3485:

People are freaking out on this forum like it’s the end of the world every time Anet does something. It’s getting ridiculous.

Because Anet always act upon something they feel is going to help, but end results is opposite. Maybe Anet should figure out how they can balance the matches first before creating some kind of league???

Don’t fear change. Change is good. Change is Progress

Hopefully they don’t give reward players who don’t do enough. We don’t really need players who akitten spawn because of rewards.

Xillllix.3485:

People are freaking out on this forum like it’s the end of the world every time Anet does something. It’s getting ridiculous.

somewhere, somehow, deep down, unconsciously, we realize that most of the stuff they have done hasnt satisfactorily improved the game mode… and that these upcoming changes dont actually solve any of the issues they want them to solve.

take the changes to matchmaking for example. sure, theres a good point that “stale matches” and congealed ratings are bad… but the real issue is that simple server population has orders of magnitude more effect on the outcome of a match than “skill” ever could. randomizing matches prevents constant blowouts on the same servers every week, but doesnt encourage population dispersal, which would have a much more positive effect on match outcomes than just having the hope that “well this week sucks, but next week could be better”.

take wxp as a whole as another example. we like feeling like we have some kind of purpose and progression, but the implementation doesnt encourage trying new things, and trying lots of different things is something anet wants to be core to the game. soulbound wxp discourages playing alts because of how lengthy the progression system is. disallowing retraiting very much discourages experimentation. the introduction of liquid wxp doesnt help the situation at all, because it doesnt take away what feels like a forced bad choice between (for example) further progression on a main who could use more utility vs progression on an alt who may never catch up in utility anyways.

as a third example, map redesign. its nice, itll be cool and interesting for however long. it may even provide good gameplay. but its likely reintroducing orb mechanics, and while we have no details yet… what we hated about the orbs was not necessarily that hackers took them (while it was a problem, all youd need to do is give the orb an enclosed structure with a color gate associated with the keep owner. or only let altars be breakable if ____ ), but that they snowballed matches into pointlessness. when servers managed to grab all 3 orbs for a few hours, the other servers would by and large just leave… and suddenly spawn camping and 150k+ point leads! how is this area thats reminiscent of sPvP going to help the smaller server get some kind of parity or equality when the larger server simply… has enough people to make fighting really hard or to be a distraction?

so yeah, those of us who are freaking out are doing so again about leagues because… well anet is forcing us to solve the problem of population imbalances by dangling the promise of a opportunity to work for a carrot. how is a carrot gonna work when we can get the carrot a hell of a lot easier by just continuing with the status quo? not to mention another problem anet is ignoring with the system as theyve said it will work (encouraging sabotage). freaking the kitten out is justified.

People who are fixated on the rewards aren’t getting it. The quality of matches will be even worse than they are now.

XII.9401:

Dream In A Dream.7213:

Agree with the op. How can a league be introduced before server pop and coverage imbalance have been fixed? Its like that total reset idea that Anet had way back, ugh.
Think it through.

Forces people to transfer=cash.

For who?

I’m both intrigued and concerned about the league system. My concern does stem from the idea that winning servers may be stacked, but really, it’s been like that way for a while anyway. If the winners’ rewards are really worth one or even two transfers, that’s a problem, but it sounds like the rewards you gain throughout the season might be more important.

I do not understand the “sky is falling” mentality on the forums right now.

This is not a sky is falling situation.

It is a problem though because fo the population balance issues.

lets look at NA gold league.
This mean if the ratings stay the same Yaks bend and E.Bay will be facing SOR and JQ and BG at some point during there match.

Currently a step of 5 up or down shows significant coverage and numbers disparities. How bad is it gonna be when you can on reset night fill up ONE map like YB and EB can… or when you can fill up ALL maps like the top 3 can?

Do you seriously… seriously think it is fun?

People have been complaining about the random match ups for weeks because of a 6 rank difference causing complete BLOWOUTS. Already with a 6 rank difference you can see one server completely decimate 2 others because of the number of players difference.

How bad is it going to get with a +12 rank difference. THAT is the problem.

The players have only two options… transfer to other servers or quit the game.

Anet can and always could offer up transfers for cheaper to lower ranked servers. Even better make it so the LOWEST rank server… transfer is free AND can move over some or all of a guilds influence. This would be a major encouragement for guilds to spread out and keeps the low end server from always being a wasteland.

Good points. I’m on SBI too and I hope we get up to #12 before this starts. I think something that would help stop the panic and the transfer worries is for Anet to release more information. That’s the problem with most of the changes they make, they don’t give enough information.

Like now, we need to know what the rewards are. Surely they’re not going to be enough gold to make it worthwhile to transfer – heck you could just go do PvE for an hour.

Is the scoring system going to change? I saw a suggestion about dividing it up into time blocks – great idea. Even Devon himself said something about “most improved”.

We need more details.

Sitkaz.5463:

I do not understand the “sky is falling” mentality on the forums right now.

I don’t think it’s a a “the sky is falling” mentality. I believe it’s a culmination and effect of having the forums crying out for fixes, population balances, glitches etc that has been plaguing wvw for a very long time. Requests hat mostly have been falling on deaf ears, or explained as not being feasible. And then this league is introduced, when wvw have so many glaring issues that should be sorted before a competitive matchup should start (even though anet doesn’t believe wvw is competitive, introducing a leauge with any reward and prize makes it a competitive scene). It’s all very inconsistent, both in planning and implementation.

Yet again, in an analogy, before you start to build more stories on a house with a cracked foundation, repair it. Then start building more levels on it. Or you’ll have complaints from your tenants, which is exactly what is happening now.

can’t wait to see how bad this league fails

qualm like a bomb.6512:

Stick a fork in DR we were already dead. Anet has been molesting us from day 1, every single one of these changes has made us even worse off than before. The straw that broke the camels back is now finally here. They finally just took all their kittens put them in a burlap sack with rocks and tossed us in the river.

-signed a ranger on DR

Every single change from day 1? How is it that from day 1 you shot up through the ranks faster than anyone but kaineng and then fall back down to your old home in t8? Looks more like a server problem than ANet’s fault.

DR, BP and Kain weren’t here on day one;)

I feel for you DR, I also feel bad for anyone that gets stuck at the bottom of the gold league. The bottom 6 servers in gold league sound like they’ll get a heavy dose of t1-t2 stomping for 7 weeks and that should be enough to chase away the players.

I agree with a point Devon made in an earlier post, sometimes servers should face strong competition to test their mettle, but they shouldn’t have to do that for 7 weeks in a row.

Vena.8436:

Svarty.8019:

I think the league system is a great idea but I am concerned about transfers. I suspect that there will be a cluster of go-to servers which end up around the top/bottom of the various leagues. Actually… that seems like a good way to distribute players. I think the guys at the bottom of the bottom need to be thrown a bone tho.

This is why the suggestion for “Most Improved” receiving substantial rewards based on net rank shifts, would go a long way to encourage even CD to hold a single tower when faced with SoR as that single tower will probably bleed rating from SoR. :p

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Please-let-there-be-most-improved/first#post2748687

We will crush and obliterate your tower…. NO MERCY!!!!!!!!

Aurust.8961:

We will crush and obliterate your tower…. NO MERCY!!!!!!!!

Pffft. Of course you will. Make sure you press that “1” key hard and fast since your blobs won’t allow anyone else to press any other keys… LMAO.

SleepingDragon.1596:

Pffft. Of course you will. Make sure you press that “1” key hard and fast since your blobs won’t allow anyone else to press any other keys… LMAO.

Just take and hold Jerrifers. No way can SoR take that tower when properly defended!

“Stand Your Ground!”