Guild Wars 2

tl;dr in 2nd post

Before I begin I’d like to say that this I’ve tried to back up my argument with as much reason and logic behind it as I could muster and I’d appreciate the same from anyone who replies.

1) The league system.
Compared to the older systems (the original random system, the GLICO2 system which resulted in the stale matchups and the approximation system which resulted in blowout matches) this new league system is in theory definitely an improvement and best iteration so far for one simple reason: you get 3 points if you finish 2nd.
This offers allot of incentive to servers who are teamed up with one behemoth server to keep on fighting in order to grab those 3 precious points and try to get to the highest position in the league as possible.
For example, on first glance, you can clearly see that in 2nd week of the leagues most of the matchups are “blowouts” (7 out of 9 on EU)but when you take into account that people now fight for both 1st and 2nd position the actual number of blowout matches are much smaller (only 1 or 2 matches are already predictable, while in most of the others there are still fights to be had).

2) No one is born equal.
All other things aside, GW2 is a revolutionary MMO in the aspect of removing competition between players themselves. Everyone gets the loot, everyone can tag, everyone can participate etc. resulting in much less grief on map chat compared to some other MMO’s, especially the ones coming from the East.
(Un)fortunately PvP and WvW is not something that can reciprocate this kind of “casual” attitude meaning there will always be a winner and a loser. There will always be a bottom feeder server and there will always be a server that can beat any other server. And that is something that should just be accepted as the way the game is.

3) Stacked vs empty and the league effect on it.
This one is going to be a bit long but bear with me.
First off (and speaking only for EU servers, since I have no clue about NA brackets and servers) with the exception of Vizunah Square (FR) which is the only server that was on top and remained on top since day one, there is not a single server that didn’t have its up and downs, especially if you look at the gold/silver league.
The exodus of the (especially WvW) population from one server to the next is a constant that is present since the game launched and was for along time encouraged by free server transfers. For example, does anyone remember Blacktide rising to the top only to remain in 1st tier for a month before plummeting down to the bottom tier ?
This resulted in majority of WvW population to be nomadic in nature and sticking to the winning side or trying to get as much benefits from a strong(er) WvW server with the least amount of negative sides.
And that brings me to the point I’m trying to make:
What I’m trying to say is that I sympathize with population that sticked with their server since day 1, the reality is that most players are fairweather children who fly from server to server when things get hairy enough.
This means that with league introduction and LS achievements being tied into the WvW there is a choice to be made, especially in high tiers. Should people stay and suffer through queues but remain on the server that boasts as being the best or better then most or should they move yet again in search for a more balanced server with lesser ques but in worse position.
As far as I know this is the first time since the GW2 came out that there is actually an incentive to move from the stacked servers to weaker ones. Players have a choice to either remain and suffer through ques, and maybe even not get the chance to claim that (I’m hoping juicy) reward that comes at the end of the league, or to move yet again in search for a server that suits their needs better.
After all, ask yourself this: would you or your guild remain on SFR/Piken/wherever if your server of choice suddenly plummeted or would you search for greener pastures yet again ? If you would remain I bow to your commitment, but somehow I think that majority would not be as strong willed as you.

Lastly, I’d like to offer some RL and fiction parallels to the current system (also this part is tl;dr version):
1) Here’s a table of Bundesleague which is one of the most popular leagues in the most popular sport in the world, football:
http://www.bundesliga.com/en/stats/table/
As you can see Bayerns and Borusia are roflstomping their way through the league, while poor old Einacht Whargharrbl is getting pummeled. Is it fair to pair up Einacht with Bayern ? Not really, anyone can see how that’s going to end but players are still gonna play the game to the end and give their best. Now imagine if there was also a 3rd team that was much closer to the skill level of one or the other team ? If that were the case the things would’ve gotten quite a bit more interesting.
2) Imagine how the fights in the movie Gladiator would’ve played out if there were no Russel Crowe
So in short: If you can’t beat the big dog, try at least to grab those 3 points, you’re gonna need them (if rewards at the end of the league are sufficiently enticing). If queues are a problem for you, feel free to propose to the guild leadership to move to a lower tier/lower league server in order to actually enjoy fighting the opponents instead of wasting valuable time and nerves in frustration. Trust me, you’d be more then welcome in bronze or even silver league.

my2cents

Freeelancer.2860:

Lastly, I’d like to offer some RL and fiction parallels to the current system (also this part is tl;dr version):
1) Here’s a table of Bundesleague which is one of the most popular leagues in the most popular sport in the world, football:
http://www.bundesliga.com/en/stats/table/
As you can see Bayerns and Borusia are roflstomping their way through the league, while poor old Einacht Whargharrbl is getting pummeled. Is it fair to pair up Einacht with Bayern ? Not really, anyone can see how that’s going to end but players are still gonna play the game to the end and give their best. Now imagine if there was also a 3rd team that was much closer to the skill level of one or the other team ? If that were the case the things would’ve gotten quite a bit more interesting.
2) Imagine how the fights in the movie Gladiator would’ve played out if there were no Russel Crowe
So in short: If you can’t beat the big dog, try at least to grab those 3 points, you’re gonna need them (if rewards at the end of the league are sufficiently enticing). If queues are a problem for you, feel free to propose to the guild leadership to move to a lower tier/lower league server in order to actually enjoy fighting the opponents instead of wasting valuable time and nerves in frustration. Trust me, you’d be more then welcome in bronze or even silver league.

my2cents

I really dislike these kinds of comparisons because those teams win because they have better players (why is a discussion for another time), not because they can field more players on the field.

Currently, that’s not what is going on in WvW. Whining about bad match ups and such is kind of a moot point by now. Just try to enjoy match ups in other ways than by the number at the top of your screen. Arena Net has no incentive to balance servers because server transferring is one of their main sources of revenue.

Yeah my server is NA mid server who have been double teamed by nature (This should happen in EU I imagine) on week 1 and I imagine it will remain this way for the rest of the weeks.

The bigger server focuses on the 2nd place server because it has much resistance. The weaker server doesn’t want to get attention from the big server and always go pull the 2nd place server leg. This results in those 2 server occupy our BL 247 and the weaker server bl remain intact. And at the mid of the matchup we dropped to 3rd place. But our resistance is still high, so our bl is occupied by them 247 till the end. Do we indeed deserve the 3rd place fighting 2 servers?

This week is the same as last week. We are 2nd atm, and I don’t know how long we will remain 2nd. So at the end of the 7 weeks, if we are 3rd place for all matches, are we really conclused bad server? What is this league trying to prove? To tell us to transfer to big servers/bottom servers for easy wxp/AP?

Except that fighting for 2nd is lame.

Imo they should’ve made it winner take all. You win, you get a point. You lose you get nothing. Second and third doesn’t matter. That way you would encourage the two losers ganging up on the top dog.

BBMouse.6510:

Yeah my server is NA mid server who have been double teamed by nature (This should happen in EU I imagine) on week 1 and I imagine it will remain this way for the rest of the weeks.

The bigger server focuses on the 2nd place server because it has much resistance. The weaker server doesn’t want to get attention from the big server and always go pull the 2nd place server leg. This results in those 2 server occupy our BL 247 and the weaker server bl remain intact. And at the mid of the matchup we dropped to 3rd place. But our resistance is still high, so our bl is occupied by them 247 till the end. Do we indeed deserve the 3rd place fighting 2 servers?

This week is the same as last week. We are 2nd atm, and I don’t know how long we will remain 2nd. So at the end of the 7 weeks, if we are 3rd place for all matches, are we really conclused bad server? What is this league trying to prove? To tell us to transfer to big servers/bottom servers for easy wxp/AP?

Well, your tactics aren’t that great. If they are double teaming your BL, abandon it. Go take the 3rd place servers BL, and then come back and work on getting some of yours back.

Andrew Clear.1750:

BBMouse.6510:

Yeah my server is NA mid server who have been double teamed by nature (This should happen in EU I imagine) on week 1 and I imagine it will remain this way for the rest of the weeks.

The bigger server focuses on the 2nd place server because it has much resistance. The weaker server doesn’t want to get attention from the big server and always go pull the 2nd place server leg. This results in those 2 server occupy our BL 247 and the weaker server bl remain intact. And at the mid of the matchup we dropped to 3rd place. But our resistance is still high, so our bl is occupied by them 247 till the end. Do we indeed deserve the 3rd place fighting 2 servers?

This week is the same as last week. We are 2nd atm, and I don’t know how long we will remain 2nd. So at the end of the 7 weeks, if we are 3rd place for all matches, are we really conclused bad server? What is this league trying to prove? To tell us to transfer to big servers/bottom servers for easy wxp/AP?

Well, your tactics aren’t that great. If they are double teaming your BL, abandon it. Go take the 3rd place servers BL, and then come back and work on getting some of yours back.

Haha. You really are idealistic. Do you really think that if your enemies have superior numbers on one map, they won’t on others? Bad logic. Most servers in the current match-ups that have low pop vs. a high pop server are outmanned on every borderland and eternal.

Well, as I already mentioned in OP, every league has a bottom feeder… And if your server always ends up getting overwhelmed… well….

On a less depressing note, this is ideal time to recruit guilds/people from higher tier servers, and with smaller population the opportunities to effectively train active population are more numerous then on servers where zergs run around most of the time.. In fact, with your (and your opponents) inferior numbers compared to silver/gold league tactics and strategy often plays much more importance than it does in said leagues.

I can only speak for myself on a mid tier server. Leagues are killing a lot of the hardcore players on BP.

Long queues, the inability to coordinate attacks due to the queue, guilds are struggling to run together on NA Prime, far to many wall warriors, dozens of PvE commanders who refuse to coordinate, overall skill of the average player has been really poor and relatively few good skill group fights. Some of our better commanders have logged out of frustration and sometimes stop running their hats when they are on.

BP used to be a lot of fun but lately a lot of frustration has seeped in even more so than when we were stuck in a tier with a dominate server and no way to escape.

You cant kill something wich is dead.

Love or hate leagues. Anet made a nice chunk of change due to players and whole guilds transferring to and fro. Some guilds on T1 are on their 4th and 5th transfers, lol.

Next to the opening day sales, I bet this was the 2nd biggest month for Anet in terms of cash flow.

In the end we all win as it will allow them to continue supporting the game………..

As a focused wvw player on a T1 server ( Piken)
am having a really bad time with the league.
and the main reason is the huge bugged queue.

Should throw in that since rewards are based on the server you started on, there is nothing preventing guilds from moving to a competitors server just to screw them over.

So many ways for servers to game the system.

Sirendor.1394:

Andrew Clear.1750:

BBMouse.6510:

Yeah my server is NA mid server who have been double teamed by nature (This should happen in EU I imagine) on week 1 and I imagine it will remain this way for the rest of the weeks.

The bigger server focuses on the 2nd place server because it has much resistance. The weaker server doesn’t want to get attention from the big server and always go pull the 2nd place server leg. This results in those 2 server occupy our BL 247 and the weaker server bl remain intact. And at the mid of the matchup we dropped to 3rd place. But our resistance is still high, so our bl is occupied by them 247 till the end. Do we indeed deserve the 3rd place fighting 2 servers?

This week is the same as last week. We are 2nd atm, and I don’t know how long we will remain 2nd. So at the end of the 7 weeks, if we are 3rd place for all matches, are we really conclused bad server? What is this league trying to prove? To tell us to transfer to big servers/bottom servers for easy wxp/AP?

Well, your tactics aren’t that great. If they are double teaming your BL, abandon it. Go take the 3rd place servers BL, and then come back and work on getting some of yours back.

Haha. You really are idealistic. Do you really think that if your enemies have superior numbers on one map, they won’t on others? Bad logic. Most servers in the current match-ups that have low pop vs. a high pop server are outmanned on every borderland and eternal.

You weren’t talking about 1 server having superior numbers, you were talking about 2 servers double teaming your BL. I merely stated that you go to the server that should finish third, and take their crap, and then go back to yours. I used to see CD do this alot during the day, in order to maintain their PPT.

Straegen.2938:

I can only speak for myself on a mid tier server. Leagues are killing a lot of the hardcore players on BP.

Long queues, the inability to coordinate attacks due to the queue, guilds are struggling to run together on NA Prime, far to many wall warriors, dozens of PvE commanders who refuse to coordinate, overall skill of the average player has been really poor and relatively few good skill group fights. Some of our better commanders have logged out of frustration and sometimes stop running their hats when they are on.

BP used to be a lot of fun but lately a lot of frustration has seeped in even more so than when we were stuck in a tier with a dominate server and no way to escape.

You are still doing good on ptt during NA prime, and that’s why the bigger server focus on you during the low coverage oceanic hour trying to keep a good lead in ptt in case they lose more in NA time. They will follow you everywhere to suppress and demorale you to gain more ptt difference. So abandon your bl but going for the 3rd bl has no use ‘cause they are always on your tail the moment you cap something. If I were on the bigger server, that’s what I would do to the 2nd and ignore the non-resisted 3rd. Put pressure on the resisted force.

The league offers AP for pve players. Because of this, servers with good pve population suddenly grow in number in wvw and this totally beat a lot of previous prediction of the matchup results. Being hardcore is not enough any more, you need numbers from casual pve players even more now in mid/low tier servers. The new wvw map will help the pve casuals to do their daily while the hardcore gain ptt in the original maps in high tiers and solve their queue problem. But in the mid/low tiers I am afraid the force will spread even thinner. Anyway, with every new stuff Anet trys, there are always new problems. Only time will tell…

BBMouse.6510:

You are still doing good on ptt during NA prime, and that’s why the bigger server focus on you during the low coverage oceanic hour trying to keep a good lead in ptt in case they lose more in NA time. They will follow you everywhere to suppress and demorale you to gain more ptt difference. So abandon your bl but going for the 3rd bl has no use ‘cause they are always on your tail the moment you cap something. If I were on the bigger server, that’s what I would do to the 2nd and ignore the non-resisted 3rd. Put pressure on the resisted force.

I don’t think you understand my points. It isn’t about getting pressured or losing as we were stuck in a tier with a much stronger server that nearly doubled our score for 13 straight weeks a while back. It is about being stuck in queue for hours behind dozens of PvE players. Guilds cannot run together because they cannot all get into the same map. When we are getting hit by a skill group on a map, organized guilds cannot transfer to that map to counter. Even if you get on the map a half dozen hats are running uncoordinated and most refuse to use TS. Then there is the added lag from so many players which doesn’t help. The first week and half has been the worst WvW since I started playing last year.

The good news is fewer PvE players are coming in so the queues at least weekdays has been somewhat back to normal. I want new players and fresh blood to enjoy WvW but they opened the flood gates and what has poured in has been frustrating to many.