Yeah, zergs need to be and unstoppable force that throws itself against doors,and aoes walls without fear. What was anet thinking allowing opposing seige
Not quite sure if you are being sarcastic but it seems you are.
It is a very good idea to take out siege before trying to get up close and personal with fortifications. Sometimes you do need to build siege of your own before hitting the structure.
Siege should hurt. Cats should put you in a downed state, same goes for trebs because that is a rather heavy projectile coming at you and a pretty good velocity.
Arrow carts should also hurt. I can dance in them with my warrior. I use them to get adrenaline when I’m beating on the door trying to kill or stop the player on the other side of the door from adding in supply.
I love to get hit by arrow carts. They tickle.
Siege really needs a buff.
Immobilized. Pffff. That arrow cart skill has a 8 second cool down and it doesn’t fire for that entire 8 seconds if they are also trying to kill you. You should have something to remove it when it stops.
If you didn’t remove the siege before attacking, your fault.
I speak for my self and no one else. Only fools believe they speak for a majority.
Not quite sure if you are being sarcastic but it seems you are.
It is a very good idea to take out siege before trying to get up close and personal with fortifications. Sometimes you do need to build siege of your own before hitting the structure.
Siege should hurt. Cats should put you in a downed state, same goes for trebs because that is a rather heavy projectile coming at you and a pretty good velocity.
Arrow carts should also hurt. I can dance in them with my warrior. I use them to get adrenaline when I’m beating on the door trying to kill or stop the player on the other side of the door from adding in supply.
I love to get hit by arrow carts. They tickle.
Siege really needs a buff.
Immobilized. Pffff.
Oil and cannons are placed in static, highly visible locations and it is not always the case that user-placed siege is. So yeah, I was being extremely sarcastic. Your opinion of how siege should work is highly inconsistent with the current state of the game, except for immobilizing arrow carts, and the things you are suggesting would be even more game breaking for the sake of “realism”. Auto down on catapults? Ya cuz who used rams anyway, I guess. What you are suggesting would make WvW extremely tedious for everyone.
Not quite sure if you are being sarcastic but it seems you are.
It is a very good idea to take out siege before trying to get up close and personal with fortifications. Sometimes you do need to build siege of your own before hitting the structure.
Siege should hurt. Cats should put you in a downed state, same goes for trebs because that is a rather heavy projectile coming at you and a pretty good velocity.
Arrow carts should also hurt. I can dance in them with my warrior. I use them to get adrenaline when I’m beating on the door trying to kill or stop the player on the other side of the door from adding in supply.
I love to get hit by arrow carts. They tickle.
Siege really needs a buff.
Immobilized. Pffff. That arrow cart skill has a 8 second cool down and it doesn’t fire for that entire 8 seconds. You should have something to remove it when it stops.
Quest for the holy grail shows what should really happen if a cow lands on you.
I think you’re being picky about numbers. I don’t think the goal should be that 5 people can take on “200”, and even if it is, that’s not the most common use case here. As the RET guy pointed out, zerg v zerg is all about mobility. Put one or two warriors on arrow carts and suddenly one zerg has no mobility and they’re all dead. You can theorycraft about counters all you want, but I think you should experience it before making a judgment call on its brokenness.
Glad someone sees my point.
We were defending FA Garrison yesterday against War Machine. They had broken into the lords room and were wreaking havoc and it took us and at least one other guild to break them and push them out. I was in a squad so I couldn’t see which other commanders were there, but I recognized the tags.
Meanwhile, three of their warriors were on top of the dome with arrow carts spamming immobilize onto the stairs and into the lords room. It completely changed the dynamic of the battle. Normally we can go toe-to-toe with WM pretty evenly with the commanders we had, but we literally had to overwhelm them to stand a chance as they literally had dozens of us trapped on the stairs trying to get up there. Finally our condition removers (null field mesmers, shout warriors) go up there. We killed them, but it took a ridiculous amount of time for that to happen. Way too much influence for 3 people to have.
Fifty Bladesof Gray – L80 Sylvari Thief
Little Brown Bags – L80 Asura Necromancer
Stunbot – L80 Sylvari Warrior
Oil and cannons are placed in static, highly visible locations and it is not always the case that user-placed siege is. So yeah, I was being extremely sarcastic. Your opinion of how siege should work is highly inconsistent with the current state of the game, except for immobilizing arrow carts, and the things you are suggesting would be even more game breaking for the sake of “realism”. Auto down on catapults? Ya cuz who used rams anyway, I guess. What you are suggesting would make WvW extremely tedious for everyone.
Lol.
Tedious because you have to use some thought and tactics before taking a structure like prep to soften it up.
We do hit and runs against hard targets to remove siege, including player placed siege.
Your fault for not removing player siege. Isn’t hard to spot it when someone is on it.
I speak for my self and no one else. Only fools believe they speak for a majority.
Not quite sure if you are being sarcastic but it seems you are.
It is a very good idea to take out siege before trying to get up close and personal with fortifications. Sometimes you do need to build siege of your own before hitting the structure.
Siege should hurt. Cats should put you in a downed state, same goes for trebs because that is a rather heavy projectile coming at you and a pretty good velocity.
Arrow carts should also hurt. I can dance in them with my warrior. I use them to get adrenaline when I’m beating on the door trying to kill or stop the player on the other side of the door from adding in supply.
I love to get hit by arrow carts. They tickle.
Siege really needs a buff.
Immobilized. Pffff.
Oil and cannons are placed in static, highly visible locations and it is not always the case that user-placed siege is. So yeah, I was being extremely sarcastic. Your opinion of how siege should work is highly inconsistent with the current state of the game, except for immobilizing arrow carts, and the things you are suggesting would be even more game breaking for the sake of “realism”. Auto down on catapults? Ya cuz who used rams anyway, I guess. What you are suggesting would make WvW extremely tedious for everyone.
Lol.
Tedious because you have to use some though and tactics before taking a structure like prep to soften it up.
We do hit and runs against hard targets to remove siege, including player placed siege.
Your fault for not removing player siege. Isn’t hard to spot it when someone is on it.
Right, I guess when someone puts a cart or catapult behind the door you should build an open field treb and spam every area of ground behind the walls that you can’t see at all before approaching the fortification
Right, I guess when someone puts a cart or catapult behind the door you should build an open field treb and spam every area of ground behind the walls that you can’t see at all before approaching the fortification
Yes. You should put up siege of your own. Flash build a superior arrow cart or a couple normal arrow carts to take out the other siege.
Your fault for not removing siege.
I speak for my self and no one else. Only fools believe they speak for a majority.
Not quite sure if you are being sarcastic but it seems you are.
It is a very good idea to take out siege before trying to get up close and personal with fortifications. Sometimes you do need to build siege of your own before hitting the structure.
Siege should hurt. Cats should put you in a downed state, same goes for trebs because that is a rather heavy projectile coming at you and a pretty good velocity.
Arrow carts should also hurt. I can dance in them with my warrior. I use them to get adrenaline when I’m beating on the door trying to kill or stop the player on the other side of the door from adding in supply.
I love to get hit by arrow carts. They tickle.
Siege really needs a buff.
Immobilized. Pffff.
Oil and cannons are placed in static, highly visible locations and it is not always the case that user-placed siege is. So yeah, I was being extremely sarcastic. Your opinion of how siege should work is highly inconsistent with the current state of the game, except for immobilizing arrow carts, and the things you are suggesting would be even more game breaking for the sake of “realism”. Auto down on catapults? Ya cuz who used rams anyway, I guess. What you are suggesting would make WvW extremely tedious for everyone.
Lol.
Tedious because you have to use some though and tactics before taking a structure like prep to soften it up.
We do hit and runs against hard targets to remove siege, including player placed siege.
Your fault for not removing player siege. Isn’t hard to spot it when someone is on it.
Right, I guess when someone puts a cart or catapult behind the door you should build an open field treb and spam every area of ground behind the walls that you can’t see at all before approaching the fortification
Yes. You should put up siege of your own. Flash build a superior arrow cart or a couple normal arrow carts to take out the other siege.
Your fault for not removing siege.
good luck flash building a superior arrow cart to take out another arrow cart when you’re all immobilized by 5 arrow carts
there are infinite places for people to place immobilizing arrow carts, and there is no way you will ever catch all of them in advance
People actually think you should have to spend 100 siege to kill a single 30 siege cart. A cart that can be placed outside of LoS of a treb very, very easily. Is this some bizarro world?
If your zerg gets killed by 1 ac the joke is on you! I would give a +1 to remove the acs all together though .Zoomhack is by far and a real problem unlike a warrior on an ac lol.I can immobilize you for 20 seconds straight and not even be on an arrowcart anyway.
Only on public forums can you find people stupid enough to try to defend a game’s bugs and claim it’s just a tactical use of mechanics.
How can you claim that it is a bug? Do you have a source for anet saying other wise? Sounds like you call it an exploit or bug because you do find it fair or balanced.
If your zerg gets killed by 1 ac the joke is on you! I would give a +1 to remove the acs all together though .Zoomhack is by far and a real problem unlike a warrior on an ac lol.I can immobilize you for 20 seconds straight and not even be on an arrowcart anyway.
The warrior on the cart isn’t doing the killing, the defenders around him are, while all of you are stuck in place. Your single target 20 second immobilize is completely worthless in comparison to a 50 target immobilize.
Walls/gates not down yet and carts hitting you? Don’t stand so close.
2 warriors holding a choke point against 50? If you got 50 people and none of them have the skills or guts to push through (hint: 2 warriors could counter this with endure pain and shield #5, then hammer-slam the 2 enemy warriors off their carts, or 2 elementalists with mistform>lightning flash>earthquake, etc.) the fault lies with your team, not the arrow carts.
That said, it could probably use a duration cap or something. Put a 2-3 sec cooldown on leg specialist procs and that should solve it. Several warriors could still chain it, but it wouldn’t be nearly as easy to stack it to OP levels or whatever.
Hats off to all the ones who stood before me, and taught a fool to ride.
When was the last time you looked at the size of the Arrow Cart AoE? It is far from a ball.
200 characters in that area seems pretty dense to me.
speaking of this whole “5v200”, why did we even stick to an arbitrary number that’s not actually possibly in the game currently with the population caps?
What’s the most a server can muster in a mapcurrently? how many can you get to be at that specific battle?
like 50? 60? what does tier 1 see during prime time with queues?
Finally our condition removers (null field mesmers, shout warriors) go up there. We killed them, but it took a ridiculous amount of time for that to happen. Way too much influence for 3 people to have.
Add in engineers with Super Elixir and have everyone projectile finish (or whirl) thru it. Engineer with Kit Refinement on Elixir Gun and a Ranger shooting thru the field with Quickness, even better.
Chaba Tangnu
Founding member of [NERF] Fort Engineer and driver for [TLC] The Legion of Charrs
RIP [SIC] Strident Iconoclast
Why does everyone have the urge to theorycraft some terrible plan instead of talking about the cost benefit of 30 supply plus this trait? No one in this thread is saying it’s some unbeatable wall.
Walls/gates not down yet and carts hitting you? Don’t stand so close.
2 warriors holding a choke point against 50? If you got 50 people and none of them have the skills or guts to push through (hint: 2 warriors could counter this with endure pain and shield #5, then hammer-slam the 2 enemy warriors off their carts, or 2 elementalists with mistform>lightning flash>earthquake, etc.) the fault lies with your team, not the arrow carts.
That said, it could probably use a duration cap or something. Put a 2-3 sec cooldown on leg specialist procs and that should solve it. Several warriors could still chain it, but it wouldn’t be nearly as easy to stack it to OP levels or whatever.
Pushing a warrior off the cart does nothing since predominantly they’re just waiting for cooldowns and I’m pretty sure the cart doesn’t stop firing if the skill has already been used. The person who pushed through will be immediately pooped on and business will resume as usual. Endure pain also doesn’t protect against immobilize.
Finally our condition removers (null field mesmers, shout warriors) go up there. We killed them, but it took a ridiculous amount of time for that to happen. Way too much influence for 3 people to have.
Add in engineers with Super Elixir and have everyone projectile finish (or whirl) thru it. Engineer with Kit Refinement on Elixir Gun and a Ranger shooting thru the field with Quickness, even better.
Your suggestion is to have the entire zerg be balled up into the size of a super elixir? Because I don’t see how they’re going to cure their immobilized if they aren’t already in that ball. And if they do, it’ll just be applied again in a second or two.
Why does everyone have the urge to theorycraft some terrible plan instead of talking about the cost benefit of 30 supply plus this trait? No one in this thread is saying it’s some unbeatable wall.
because obviously this is totally balanced and they are smarter than us!!
Walls/gates not down yet and carts hitting you? Don’t stand so close.
2 warriors holding a choke point against 50? If you got 50 people and none of them have the skills or guts to push through (hint: 2 warriors could counter this with endure pain and shield #5, then hammer-slam the 2 enemy warriors off their carts, or 2 elementalists with mistform>lightning flash>earthquake, etc.) the fault lies with your team, not the arrow carts.
That said, it could probably use a duration cap or something. Put a 2-3 sec cooldown on leg specialist procs and that should solve it. Several warriors could still chain it, but it wouldn’t be nearly as easy to stack it to OP levels or whatever.
Pushing a warrior off the cart does nothing since predominantly they’re just waiting for cooldowns and I’m pretty sure the cart doesn’t stop firing if the skill has already been used. The person who pushed through will be immediately pooped on and business will resume as usual. Endure pain also doesn’t protect against immobilize.
Finally our condition removers (null field mesmers, shout warriors) go up there. We killed them, but it took a ridiculous amount of time for that to happen. Way too much influence for 3 people to have.
Add in engineers with Super Elixir and have everyone projectile finish (or whirl) thru it. Engineer with Kit Refinement on Elixir Gun and a Ranger shooting thru the field with Quickness, even better.
Your suggestion is to have the entire zerg be balled up into the size of a super elixir? Because I don’t see how they’re going to cure their immobilized if they aren’t already in that ball. And if they do, it’ll just be applied again in a second or two.
I think he was just adding in his bit to the condition removal. NERF is a Fort Aspenwood guild and he’s been in the fight with us pretty often, he may have been one of the ones that got up there yesterday.
Fifty Bladesof Gray – L80 Sylvari Thief
Little Brown Bags – L80 Asura Necromancer
Stunbot – L80 Sylvari Warrior
Why does everyone have the urge to theorycraft some terrible plan instead of talking about the cost benefit of 30 supply plus this trait? No one in this thread is saying it’s some unbeatable wall.
Because there are plenty of ways to counter it. But because one way doesnt work, it must be nerfed than using a different strat
I doubt that condition damage, duration or traits were purposely designed to impact the power of siege, particularly when it appears to be an inadvertent change related to an engineer class fix.
It’ll be fun to test all the possibilities in the meantime…hmm…condition necro on treb cows?
Walls/gates not down yet and carts hitting you? Don’t stand so close.
2 warriors holding a choke point against 50? If you got 50 people and none of them have the skills or guts to push through (hint: 2 warriors could counter this with endure pain and shield #5, then hammer-slam the 2 enemy warriors off their carts, or 2 elementalists with mistform>lightning flash>earthquake, etc.) the fault lies with your team, not the arrow carts.
Not saying it’s beyond counters or unbeatable. Just saying it’s overpowered and those 2 warriors should not be able to hold 50 people up for that amount of time.
Fifty Bladesof Gray – L80 Sylvari Thief
Little Brown Bags – L80 Asura Necromancer
Stunbot – L80 Sylvari Warrior
It’s broken, no idea why anyone would argue against that. Stun locks are always bad for PvP game play. This is basically the same thing except it immobilizes. Those kind of mechanics make players leave PvP games.
If you can’t kill enemies without broken abilities you shouldn’t PvP and should definitely not come to the forums and defend something that is so stupidly broken.
It’s broken, no idea why anyone would argue against that. Stun locks are always bad for PvP game play. This is basically the same thing except it immobilizes. Those kind of mechanics make players leave PvP games.
If you can’t kill enemies without broken abilities you shouldn’t PvP and should definitely not come to the forums and defend something that is so stupidly broken.
I’m sorry but your generalization of the discussion is off. The fact that warriors on arrow carts can hold a assault on a keep or tower of long periods time is just imo. Why should it be easy for hordes of people to take a defended keep easily. The players defending should have the tactical advantage with defensive siege and choke points into the lord room. The arrow carts are powerful towards Rams and players trying to PvDoor there way in. The counter is to build catas or trebs out of arrow cart range and take doors or walls down. If the arrow carts are holding you from entering through a choke point, regroup and attack a different point.
Most choke points can be held with out a single arrow cart. It happens all the time…I see it first hand anytime JQ or SoR are attacking a BG keep I’m helping defend. I would bet JQ and SoR could say the same vs us.
wtf i played over 500 hours on my warrior with leg specialist almost all the time in wvw and used a ton on AC’s but I never knew this
lv80 with skills fully unlocked, warrior, elementalist and engineer
lv80 Necromancer, all professional skills unlocked, working on the final norn elite skills.
It’s broken, no idea why anyone would argue against that. Stun locks are always bad for PvP game play. This is basically the same thing except it immobilizes. Those kind of mechanics make players leave PvP games.
If you can’t kill enemies without broken abilities you shouldn’t PvP and should definitely not come to the forums and defend something that is so stupidly broken.
I’m sorry but your generalization of the discussion is off. The fact that warriors on arrow carts can hold a assault on a keep or tower of long periods time is just imo. Why should it be easy for hordes of people to take a defended keep easily. The players defending should have the tactical advantage with defensive siege and choke points into the lord room. The arrow carts are powerful towards Rams and players trying to PvDoor there way in. The counter is to build catas or trebs out of arrow cart range and take doors or walls down. If the arrow carts are holding you from entering through a choke point, regroup and attack a different point.
Most choke points can be held with out a single arrow cart. It happens all the time…I see it first hand anytime JQ or SoR are attacking a BG keep I’m helping defend. I would bet JQ and SoR could say the same vs us.
It is not the player’s responsibility to counter another strat. Anet is suppose to nerf it instead.
It’s broken, no idea why anyone would argue against that. Stun locks are always bad for PvP game play. This is basically the same thing except it immobilizes. Those kind of mechanics make players leave PvP games.
If you can’t kill enemies without broken abilities you shouldn’t PvP and should definitely not come to the forums and defend something that is so stupidly broken.
I’m sorry but your generalization of the discussion is off. The fact that warriors on arrow carts can hold a assault on a keep or tower of long periods time is just imo. Why should it be easy for hordes of people to take a defended keep easily. The players defending should have the tactical advantage with defensive siege and choke points into the lord room. The arrow carts are powerful towards Rams and players trying to PvDoor there way in. The counter is to build catas or trebs out of arrow cart range and take doors or walls down. If the arrow carts are holding you from entering through a choke point, regroup and attack a different point.
Most choke points can be held with out a single arrow cart. It happens all the time…I see it first hand anytime JQ or SoR are attacking a BG keep I’m helping defend. I would bet JQ and SoR could say the same vs us.
Really, so we’re going argue for balancing siege around PvD odds now? I’m sorry, but if you’re facing PvD odds, the defenders should lose. This coming from one of the most frequently night capped servers in NA. If you try to enter a choke point held down by immobilizing carts and relatively even numbers, your zerg isn’t going to regroup and attack at a different point, it’s going to wipe in 5 seconds flat and then regroup. I’ve seen this happen over and over again. But I guess since I’m not in T1, I don’t know pro tactics, right?
It’s broken, no idea why anyone would argue against that. Stun locks are always bad for PvP game play. This is basically the same thing except it immobilizes. Those kind of mechanics make players leave PvP games.
If you can’t kill enemies without broken abilities you shouldn’t PvP and should definitely not come to the forums and defend something that is so stupidly broken.
I’m sorry but your generalization of the discussion is off. The fact that warriors on arrow carts can hold a assault on a keep or tower of long periods time is just imo. Why should it be easy for hordes of people to take a defended keep easily. The players defending should have the tactical advantage with defensive siege and choke points into the lord room. The arrow carts are powerful towards Rams and players trying to PvDoor there way in. The counter is to build catas or trebs out of arrow cart range and take doors or walls down. If the arrow carts are holding you from entering through a choke point, regroup and attack a different point.
Most choke points can be held with out a single arrow cart. It happens all the time…I see it first hand anytime JQ or SoR are attacking a BG keep I’m helping defend. I would bet JQ and SoR could say the same vs us.
It is not the player’s responsibility to counter another strat. Anet is suppose to nerf it instead.
I would give a +1 to remove the acs all together though .Zoomhack is by far and a real problem unlike a warrior on an ac lol.I can immobilize you for 20 seconds straight and not even be on an arrowcart anyway.
