And this trait for Warrior has zero internal cooldown? Really? Giving it even a 1sec internal cooldown would solve this issue, as it would immediatly only proc for 1 player instead of a whole zerg.
The lack of ICD is balanced for the trait for Warrior abilities. All Warr abilities that have cripples are on cooldowns, and some Warr abilities that strike twice with cripple (Bladetrail) are intended to have the trait proc twice in rapid succession.
ICD doesn’t really make sense for the trait for Warr abilities. Of course, it doesn’t really make sense for the trait to apply to siege. Lawls.
If you can’t read English, please do not reply to my post.
Alpha siege golem Shiled buble + warrior missile deflection trait still working ? Haven’t tried it in a while. Used to be a lol to watch ppl killing themselves on the golems.
I hate when people QQ because they die in WvW. Why should ANet get rid of the things that people use to do well in WvW? This is just one of those things that enables a smaller team to help the bigger zerg by wiping and/or delaying the enemy zerg. GET OVER IT. Go back to PvE.
I hate when people QQ because they die in WvW. Why should ANet get rid of the things that people use to do well in WvW? This is just one of those things that enables a smaller team to help the bigger zerg by wiping and/or delaying the enemy zerg. GET OVER IT. Go back to PvE.
/endrant
So you’re saying that if my class were bugged to automatically kill all opponents on the map, that would be fair because it helps the anti-zerg?
Are you saying you need overpowered exploits to do well in WvW? Maybe you should go back to PvE?
If you can’t read English, please do not reply to my post.
I hate when people QQ because they die in WvW. Why should ANet get rid of the things that people use to do well in WvW? This is just one of those things that enables a smaller team to help the bigger zerg by wiping and/or delaying the enemy zerg. GET OVER IT. Go back to PvE.
/endrant
So you’re saying that if my class were bugged to automatically kill all opponents on the map, that would be fair because it helps the anti-zerg?
Are you saying you need overpowered exploits to do well in WvW? Maybe you should go back to PvE?
First off, this trait doesn’t allow you to automatically kill a opponent so your statement is far fetched. Second Anet hasn’t stated its a exploit or a bug and has made no comment either way.
If it was a known issue, it would have been brought up well before this past couple of weeks, I’m sorry that it promotes more strategy then banging your head on a door till you can rush in.
There is sufficient counterplay here. There are lots of immob breaks, blocking abilities, invun, evades, teleports, dashes that can get you through this.
If your stacking into a tiny little zergball and walking through this you are going to get caught, but if you use any variation of the abilities that almost every class has, you can easily get through this.
Its a sad day for warriors when people realise that the only way they become OP its while they fight with siege….
When i rush with my warrior to the middle of an enemy group and i die because of fields and retaliation in 2 sec or less thats is OK for the most people. (L2 kitten ue)
When a mesmer drops a portal on your side and one enemy zerg put out fields and retaliation right away and you are dead in less than 2 sec thats OK too. Nothing of gamebracking this far. (L2 kitten ue)
But when a warrior immobilize someone that is gamebreaking??? At least with arrow carts people can use condition removal and DODGE out of there.
Try to do that in those fields and see the diference.
The problem is:
One warrior with one arrow cart can’t do much, but 5 warriors its ANOYING)
One necro, mesmer, ele without any siege cant do much, but 5 off them its GAMEBREAKING even without any siege).
First off, this trait doesn’t allow you to automatically kill a opponent so your statement is far fetched.
No, it only allows you to permanent immobilize 50 players at 1500 or w/e range in a giant AOE. Balanced, yeah.
If it was a known issue, it would have been brought up well before this past couple of weeks, I’m sorry that it promotes more strategy then banging your head on a door till you can rush in.
For those that are unable to read the thread: the current bug is a result of the recent change to engi turret mechanics.
There is sufficient counterplay here. There are lots of immob breaks, blocking abilities, invun, evades, teleports, dashes that can get you through this.
It’s funny how you mention “immob breaks” when the arrow cart will just immobilize you again a half second later.
So the bottom line here is that it’s fair for 2-4 arrow carts to permanently hold down a chokepoint. Looks like it will be impossible to take any keep from any defense by any competently organized server until Anet fixes it.
If you can’t read English, please do not reply to my post.
How are people defending this? I don’t even understand the mental hurdles necessary to insinuate that because something has counters ( Pre-Knowledge the Ac’s are being used in this way, Ample CC removal, Utility skills, and complete control of their force ) that it’s balanced. I’m going to chalk it up to some people are simply trolling, I don’t want to lose any more faith in gamers.
First off, this trait doesn’t allow you to automatically kill a opponent so your statement is far fetched.
No, it only allows you to permanent immobilize 50 players at 1500 or w/e range in a giant AOE. Balanced, yeah.
If it was a known issue, it would have been brought up well before this past couple of weeks, I’m sorry that it promotes more strategy then banging your head on a door till you can rush in.
For those that are unable to read the thread: the current bug is a result of the recent change to engi turret mechanics.
There is sufficient counterplay here. There are lots of immob breaks, blocking abilities, invun, evades, teleports, dashes that can get you through this.
It’s funny how you mention “immob breaks” when the arrow cart will just immobilize you again a half second later.
So the bottom line here is that it’s fair for 2-4 arrow carts to permanently hold down a chokepoint. Looks like it will be impossible to take any keep from any defense by any competently organized server until Anet fixes it.
Sorry to say but if a guild is holding a choke point and are organized enough to not only have 2-4 arrow carts up but to have traited warriors on them your probably going to get farmed anyway (with or with out the arrow carts).
How are people defending this? I don’t even understand the mental hurdles necessary to insinuate that because something has counters ( Pre-Knowledge the Ac’s are being used in this way, Ample CC removal, Utility skills, and complete control of their force ) that it’s balanced. I’m going to chalk it up to some people are simply trolling, I don’t want to lose any more faith in gamers.
Smitten, my point is that this is not a game breaking problem. There are ways around it and the defending team (in a keep) should have a strong advantage. They are in a castle after all…Also a side point is anytime something is to hard to beat, people cry about it then after enough people throwing fits anet changes it. Sadly these games are made around casual players, so casual players can play the game a feel like they can compete with more skilled “elite” players. Personally I think everything is to easy in WvW. All Siege should hit much harder and have more effects like immobilize and chill. If you have 2 arrow carts up (regardless if traited warriors are on them or not) your zerg shouldn’t be able to just run through it with out taking casualties.
And Balance? Nothing is truely balanced when your talking about large numbers of players. Have you seen what a choke looks like with 5+ necros defending it? How about 5 hammer warriors (not on arrow carts) chaining their skills? Or how about 5 eng nadeing a choke? Anything in large numbers is going to be overpowered….
Smitten, my point is that this is not a game breaking problem. There are ways around it and the defending team (in a keep) should have a strong advantage. They are in a castle after all…Also a side point is anytime something is to hard to beat, people cry about it then after enough people throwing fits anet changes it. Sadly these games are made around casual players, so casual players can play the game a feel like they can compete with more skilled “elite” players. Personally I think everything is to easy in WvW. All Siege should hit much harder and have more effects like immobilize and chill. If you have 2 arrow carts up (regardless if traited warriors are on them or not) your zerg shouldn’t be able to just run through it with out taking casualties.
There’s an odd point of disagreement between you and I here. You are focused on the idea that this gives a skilled set of players an advantage against a larger number of unskilled players. I would maintain that this also gives an unskilled set of players an advantage against a larger number of skilled players. I disagree with your contention that it takes coordination to get two leg-traited guardians on two ACs. If that were the case, then just about about all of Mags BL teams are highly coordinated skilled players.
I play on Maguuma
Uru Kalach (80-War)/Kalthin Leafletter (80-Rgr)/Kalfun Gai (72-Guardian)
Leader – An Unexpected Kinship (AUK)
Smitten, my point is that this is not a game breaking problem.
Give it another 48 hours.
Also a side point is anytime something is to hard to beat, people cry about it then after enough people throwing fits
Are you a kid? There’s a difference between whining about something that you lost to, and complaining about a legitimate bug that gives an overpowered capability to a subset of players.
I have a Warrior too and I very well will go home and pick up a stack of kitten arrow carts and farm badges by the cartloads until this gets fixed.
Skill? ROFL. Get over yourself, grow up, and get some objectivity. You’re whining about complaining rather than discussing the actual matter at hand.
If you can’t read English, please do not reply to my post.
Assuming you just mistyped, its warriors with the trait. I think the word skilled is a bit to generic for the topic as the level of skill has to many variables. But as for coordination, yes feel it does take more coordination and team work to make this effective. In a group of pugs, its unlikely for someone to call out warriors with the trait to jump on ACs and also its unlikely for the current operator to jump off and let the warrior use the arrow cart. (Traited warrior or not AC’s are a great way to farm bags during a defense)
For a coordinated guild vs pugs, Its much more likely the guild will win regardless of side (defending or attacking) If your looking at to very skilled or coordinated guilds fighting then the AC will be a non-factor. In this case its likely that the defending team will ask for traited warriors to use AC’s while the attacking team will notice this tactic and either regroup to take out the AC’s or attack from a different position. I feel small aspects like this promote better coordination between Pugs and guilds for the better. IMO instead of complaining and asking for a nerf its better to educate your forces and find a better strategy to combat things of this matter.
Yeah… Typo. Meh… On Maguuma BL teams it wouldn’t be that unexpected to have everyone flip to get the warrior on the AC. Then again on Maguuma BL teams we tend to have 80%+ in voice chat, so perhaps we really are weird, on this one.
I play on Maguuma
Uru Kalach (80-War)/Kalthin Leafletter (80-Rgr)/Kalfun Gai (72-Guardian)
Leader – An Unexpected Kinship (AUK)
For those that are unable to read the thread: the current bug is a result of the recent change to engi turret mechanics.
It’s not actually a bug at all, it regular behaviour that is now possible since they removed the bug that was preventing sigils from working with kits. (ie: before kits/siege/env-weapons were ignoring a bunch of other systems, like traits.)
whether you think the current synergy is balanced or not, it’s not a bug.
And it’s hillarious that before this thread was created I’d run into this once. NOW it’s everywhere… it’s kinda sad that such a high percentage of the WvW population reads about this and instead of being against it, they hop into the game and immediately exploit it because it’s the only way they can get badges.
See, now this has to go. It’s a sickness. It’s invasive and will eat us all.
That’s actually why the OP posted this. Once it’s widely known, it will get widely abused, and then widely complained about, so it will actually get fixed.
Smitten, my point is that this is not a game breaking problem.
Give it another 48 hours.
Also a side point is anytime something is to hard to beat, people cry about it then after enough people throwing fits
Are you a kid? There’s a difference between whining about something that you lost to, and complaining about a legitimate bug that gives an overpowered capability to a subset of players.
I have a Warrior too and I very well will go home and pick up a stack of kitten arrow carts and farm badges by the cartloads until this gets fixed.
Skill? ROFL. Get over yourself, grow up, and get some objectivity. You’re whining about complaining rather than discussing the actual matter at hand.
First I would like to thank you for your very constructive statements, assuming I’m a kid, or claiming I should get some objectivity when your the one clearly getting worked up over someone that doesn’t agree with you.
Notably I’m not complaining nor Whining about anything, I’m well aware that people will cry or whine about anything if they don’t agree with it (for what ever there reason way be)
I was discussing that matter, from the way I see it…I have been on both sides of the Leg Specialist AC’s and did not see an issue. Mind you I’m on a sub 15k hp thief and had no issue navigating the arrow carts…Got Immobilized, cleared it and didn’t go back there till it was safe to do so.
It would be nice if you relaxed a bit and didn’t get to worked up over the fact that I disagree with you.
First off, this trait doesn’t allow you to automatically kill a opponent so your statement is far fetched.
No, it only allows you to permanent immobilize 50 players at 1500 or w/e range in a giant AOE. Balanced, yeah.
If it was a known issue, it would have been brought up well before this past couple of weeks, I’m sorry that it promotes more strategy then banging your head on a door till you can rush in.
For those that are unable to read the thread: the current bug is a result of the recent change to engi turret mechanics.
There is sufficient counterplay here. There are lots of immob breaks, blocking abilities, invun, evades, teleports, dashes that can get you through this.
It’s funny how you mention “immob breaks” when the arrow cart will just immobilize you again a half second later.
So the bottom line here is that it’s fair for 2-4 arrow carts to permanently hold down a chokepoint. Looks like it will be impossible to take any keep from any defense by any competently organized server until Anet fixes it.
Sorry to say but if a guild is holding a choke point and are organized enough to not only have 2-4 arrow carts up but to have traited warriors on them your probably going to get farmed anyway (with or with out the arrow carts).
LOL I just hope for your own sanity your trolling. Because its so easy to get 2 other war friends and give them money to buy arrow carts and tell them about the trait. Its so easy to abuse
So are you troll or why are you defending a game bug so crazily? Because you seem mad or in denial that this is a bug.
This definitely isn’t a bug, the trait gives a 1 second immobilize when you use a skill to inflict a cripple, and using a siege weapon gives you a new set of skills. It’s just something that might not have been planned, can easily be dealt with if you are not caught off guard, and actually gives a defending team some help against basic PvDoor tactics.
LOL I just hope for your own sanity your trolling. Because its so easy to get 2 other war friends and give them money to buy arrow carts and tell them about the trait. Its so easy to abuse
So are you troll or why are you defending a game bug so crazily? Because you seem mad or in denial that this is a bug.
I’m not mad nor Trolling, If its a bug and you can provide a source saying so, I would be more then happy to conclude my point on this matter. But as it stands now, I and a few others (that have posted above) disagree that it is a bug. Where it my be more powerful then other traits on siege, it’s still only seemingly effective against players that are unaware of the tactic. You can claim I’m saying “L2P” but WvW is a team game (zerg or small groups) and you have to be prepared to deal with situations that put you at a disadvantage. A ok to good commander (thats aware of the trait w/ AC) will be able to adapt.
So 5 people should be able to defend against 50? Why bother attacking? Lets just all sit on arrow carts and not fight eachother. I don’t think people realize how hard it is to siege something without this bug making it worse. 5-10 players manning siege will already repel a zerg or delay them long enough to muster up a counter attack.
Eh, stop saying it’s because of an engineer fix. It was a general profession skills fix.
“Gadgets placed by players (such as turrets) will now apply boons and conditions based on those players’ stats. Those conditions and boons will not be reduced to level-1 values when the triggering gadget is destroyed.”
Three other classes get a trait that does increased damage to crippled foes (necromancer, guardian, and thief), three get a bonus duration to bleeding (warrior, elementalist, and necromancer), and all but ranger get bonus damage to bleeding targets, all of which appear to work the same way with arrow carts as the warrior immobilize. Every class has some sort of escape mechanism that can get them out of each one of these traits, including the immobilize. Other siege gets this effect too, the omega golem works off traits that effect burning and trebs work off poison traits. I don’t see anyone complaining that thieves can spread mass weakness to 50 people… Each class has it’s own benefits when using siege weapons, some are more generic but all can be countered.
First off, this trait doesn’t allow you to automatically kill a opponent so your statement is far fetched.
No, it only allows you to permanent immobilize 50 players at 1500 or w/e range in a giant AOE. Balanced, yeah.
If it was a known issue, it would have been brought up well before this past couple of weeks, I’m sorry that it promotes more strategy then banging your head on a door till you can rush in.
For those that are unable to read the thread: the current bug is a result of the recent change to engi turret mechanics.
There is sufficient counterplay here. There are lots of immob breaks, blocking abilities, invun, evades, teleports, dashes that can get you through this.
It’s funny how you mention “immob breaks” when the arrow cart will just immobilize you again a half second later.
So the bottom line here is that it’s fair for 2-4 arrow carts to permanently hold down a chokepoint. Looks like it will be impossible to take any keep from any defense by any competently organized server until Anet fixes it.
I find it funny you pick on one counter i proposed in my post then proceed to conclude that its entirely broken and unbeatable.
I invite you to rethink your assertion. (because it is false).
Also keeps/towers/and stonemist is still falling on all servers.
I picked on that counter because it’s the most easily broken / invalidated / obviated. The others require more detailed explanation or conditions; e.g. the size of the arrow cart AOE versus the distance of a dodge. Long range instant teleports are the only abilities that will guarantee getting out of a single AC AOE. Nevermind considering more than 1 AC.
Any defended objective is already a kitten to take.
It’s pretty absurd to try to excuse bugs as a balancing mechanism.
If you can’t read English, please do not reply to my post.
In any case, the remainder of this discussion is mostly pointless, because it will be nerfed.
So you agree that it’s intended and should be “nerfed” and not a bug which would need to be “fixed”?
Use whatever terminology you want.
Do you feel that permanent AOE root is intended?
Sorry but permanent would suggest that there is no way to remove it which is false. If you spec your self to not have condition removal then thats poor planning on your part. If you are unable to navigate your character out of the AoE zone then maybe you just need more practice (or you messed up, it happens to everyone) It certainly isn’t permanent and is very bearable. (unless your stacking 3-5+ but that can be said about any damaging skill…)
If any professions where able to have the same advantage using siege
While they don’t have the exact same advantage, as several others have pointed out, the Warrior is not the only class to have some it’s mechanics applied to siege use.
Different professions get different bonuses depending on build and siege weapon. Thieves can spread weakness with a treb, no other class can do that, yet no one will mention it as game breaking.
I don’t care about grand scale wvw and I never do siege, but I’m going to chime in because there’s a real misconception among the people defending this.
People keep saying it’s good because a small number of people should have the ability to defeat a large number. That’s absolutely true. A small force should be able to kill as many people at once as their skill allows without artificial limitations like the aoe cap. But that’s the rub, skill.
What skill is required to do this? How good do you have to be to select the right trait? How much practice does it take to be able to aim an arrow cart at a breach? There’s no skill involved in this.
This bug is the opposite of the aoe cap. It’s artificially giving smaller numbers a non skill based advantage over larger forces. That isn’t right, and it needs to be fixed, just the same as the aoe cap. Winning or losing should be based on skill, not artificial advantages.
What skill is required to do this? How good do you have to be to select the right trait? How much practice does it take to be able to aim an arrow cart at a breach? There’s no skill involved in this.
The skill comes from both recognizing the synergy here, choosing to incorporate it in your build (evaluating opportunity cost) and playstyle.
Or.. you could say the skill components is on the other side of the equation and comes from players learning not to rush their whole zerg into siege range before figuring out what’s up there shooting at you. That and finding a way around it.
Ok, if you follow the nomenclature of the wiki:
“Leg Specialist: Apply a 1-second immobilize whenever you cripple a target with a skill.”
it is working as intended, since every ability slotted onto the skillbar is a skill and when you mount an arrow cart button number two can be considered skill number two.
…but under skill on the wiki there is no mention of abilities provided by siege, only abilities that you can allocate to the skillbar yourself. This would mean, this trait (or others) applying to siege skills is a glitch introduced by ANet.
So until sauce is provided or commentary by officials is made, we can’t tell for sure, but we can of course continue to venture into dialectical discussions.
This trait/gear interaction with carts did not exist until recently. It existed after a change was made to a specific profession. There was no mention in the patch at all about siege now sharing gear/traits.
I don’t know how anyone can see that sequence of events and think it was intended. Then again, most people are coming into this thread, posting factually incorrect word vomit, and then leaving.
Ok, if you follow the nomenclature of the wiki:
“Leg Specialist: Apply a 1-second immobilize whenever you cripple a target with a skill.”
it is working as intended, since every ability slotted onto the skillbar is a skill and when you mount an arrow cart button number two can be considered skill number two.
…but under skill on the wiki there is no mention of abilities provided by siege, only abilities that you can allocate to the skillbar yourself. This would mean, this trait (or others) applying to siege skills is a glitch introduced by ANet.
So until sauce is provided or commentary by officials is made, we can’t tell for sure, but we can of course continue to venture into dialectical discussions.
SKILLS:
Fire – Fire your arrow cart at the target area.
Fire Crippling Arrows – Fire your arrow cart at the target area. Arrows that hit cripple the target.
Fire Barbed Arrows – Fire your arrow cart at the target area. Arrows that hit bleed the target.
Siege weapons are environmental weapons used in PvP. They are fixed to their build site location, except for siege golems (which can be moved). These weapons can only be used by the team that created them; opponents can attack (and damage) the structures. Important for both offense and defense in World versus World combat, Siege weapons are often the key to winning an otherwise impossible battle.
Ok, if you follow the nomenclature of the wiki:
“Leg Specialist: Apply a 1-second immobilize whenever you cripple a target with a skill.”
it is working as intended, since every ability slotted onto the skillbar is a skill and when you mount an arrow cart button number two can be considered skill number two.
…but under skill on the wiki there is no mention of abilities provided by siege, only abilities that you can allocate to the skillbar yourself. This would mean, this trait (or others) applying to siege skills is a glitch introduced by ANet.
So until sauce is provided or commentary by officials is made, we can’t tell for sure, but we can of course continue to venture into dialectical discussions.
SKILLS:
Fire – Fire your arrow cart at the target area.
Fire Crippling Arrows – Fire your arrow cart at the target area. Arrows that hit cripple the target.
Fire Barbed Arrows – Fire your arrow cart at the target area. Arrows that hit bleed the target.
Siege weapons are environmental weapons used in PvP. They are fixed to their build site location, except for siege golems (which can be moved). These weapons can only be used by the team that created them; opponents can attack (and damage) the structures. Important for both offense and defense in World versus World combat, Siege weapons are often the key to winning an otherwise impossible battle.
I bolded the part of you quoting me, which you happen to have overlooked in my original post.
Just to clarify, in theory a group of 4 warriors (plus 2 people to defend them maybe) could just completely block the other team off the map by just AC their starting gate. That sounds a little OP to me.
If there are only 5 Warriors on Arrow carts rotating #2 skill and you let 50 people die to them you are bad, should feel bad, and should counsel your children on their future of being bad.
I haven’t experienced this kind of defense but is 1-second immobilize really that much game-breaking?
It requires multiple coordinated warriors with a right trait to pull off and excuse me but if you are getting hit with multiple arrow carts anyway it should hurt you a lot. Especially if you invested into making superior arrow carts…
Infidelija, boatswain of Bloody Pirates [YARR], lvl 80 elementalist
hobby: busting Trebuchettes
Gandara server
