Guild Wars 2

Churchill.8714:

Except if you roll all Warriors in your zerg and sit on your arrow carts you’re still going to die.

Or you know, build a treb and clear siege.

Some people think it is too expensive to do that.

Tactics, who needs them.

If they’re going to keep this, then you might as well give everybody an OP trait that works with it. Give thieves the ability to give mass amounts of enemies vulnerability with it, mesmers give them confusion, guardians give them burn, rangers give weakness, necros give poison, engineers give them chill, and elementalists give them daze.

Now tell me if that wouldn’t be considered OP, hmm? Just have 1 of every class on 8 arrow carts and watch them completely wipe out a zerg due to them getting hit with every status effect in the book.

RyuDragnier.9476:

If they’re going to keep this, then you might as well give everybody an OP trait that works with it. Give thieves the ability to give mass amounts of enemies vulnerability with it, mesmers give them confusion, guardians give them burn, rangers give weakness, necros give poison, engineers give them chill, and elementalists give them daze.

Now tell me if that wouldn’t be considered OP, hmm? Just have 1 of every class on 8 arrow carts and watch them completely wipe out a zerg due to them getting hit with every status effect in the book.

Works for me. I’ve suggested that other classes traits should work with various siege.

Siege should hurt way more than it does.

Poison cows with a condition necro operator – that kitten hurts lol.

My beef with Leg Specialist is that the necro’s trait of Vampiric doesn’t work with arrow carts. Fine let warrior cripple foes. But when a necro uses arrow cart every single hit should steal health.

Remove leg specialist please before arrow cart mastery is implemented. That would be just too much.

I am guessing it will have a new skill, a large radius and more conditions as a bare minimum I dont know what else arrow cart mastery will bring …. poison arrows? But its just a bad idea to have leg specialist stay there with increased radius.

I am glad this topic is resurrected. if you notice there is an 18 day lapse between posts on page 5. I just would like to have a response as to whether this is an exploit or not. If it is not an exploit then my low level warrior is getting built towards the leg specialist trait. If it is one, this whole thread should be erased based on the forums TOS. The problem here is that even the mods do not know whether it is a bug/exploit so how can we as players know.

I just do not want this topic to die like it almost did there until we have an answer.

It’s fine. Thieves can spam AoE weakness with treb, Rangers can give all siege bonus damage(spirit of frost), Engineers can have their turrets out while operating, Eles and guardians can swap out and drop some anti projectile fields… Every class got something to offer on siege…

naphack.9346:

It’s fine. Thieves can spam AoE weakness with treb, Rangers can give all siege bonus damage(spirit of frost), Engineers can have their turrets out while operating, Eles and guardians can swap out and drop some anti projectile fields… Every class got something to offer on siege…

Great post and also as someone pointed earlier very few warrior invest in tactic. I do agree that having 4-5 warriors doing it is a lot but also using 5 of pretty much everything can become OP.

DevonCarver.5370:

We are aware of this little strategy and have our top minds hammering out possible solutions.

Let me ask you something: why take away something that gives defenders a chance to hold a location, just because a few people cried over it? It seems pointless. You might as well remove traits altogether, and have only 1 attack, that way everyone quits crying… :|

-Sir Tryce

P.S. Devon, can you give me a VALID reason to get rid of something like this? I’d appreciate it.

Ugh it doesn’t need a solution, please don’t nerf one of the few options we have to help defend against overwhelming numerical superiority.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

Ugh it doesn’t need a solution, please don’t nerf one of the few options we have to help defend against overwhelming numerical superiority.

^

I have been abusing this for so long, I love it. Hope they never fix it.

naphack.9346:

It’s fine. Thieves can spam AoE weakness with treb, Rangers can give all siege bonus damage(spirit of frost), Engineers can have their turrets out while operating, Eles and guardians can swap out and drop some anti projectile fields… Every class got something to offer on siege…

Guardians Sanctuary and Wall of reflection DO NOT stop Siege projectiles of any type.

Gismor.8407:

DevonCarver.5370:

We are aware of this little strategy and have our top minds hammering out possible solutions.

Let me ask you something: why take away something that gives defenders a chance to hold a location, just because a few people cried over it? It seems pointless. You might as well remove traits altogether, and have only 1 attack, that way everyone quits crying… :|

-Sir Tryce

P.S. Devon, can you give me a VALID reason to get rid of something like this? I’d appreciate it.

I can give you one. It gives one class an unfair advantage over another using something that shouldn’t be affecting it to begin with. Though I’d like for them to give immobilizing arrows to arrow carts as skill #4…would be nice.

I’ll be glad when they fix this.

I always find myself trying to kill that SOB on the arrow cart.If…………I………….Could………..Just…………..Make……….It…………..A…………..Few……………More………..Steps.

it seems like the main issue with this combination is the rapid reapplication of immobilize. If that is the case then it seems like putting a 2 to 5 second cooldown on the leg specialist trait would be the best route. We get to keep the trait interaction and the power of this combination is reduced but not eliminated. If enough traited warriors are together you can still get total lockdown, but now there has to be more players staying well coordinated.

Tranquil Fury.3178:

If that is the case then it seems like putting a 2 to 5 second cooldown on the leg specialist trait would be the best route.

Oh my God please don’t nerf the Warrior because of a stupid Arrow Cart interaction. The trait is perfectly balanced on its own.

I, honestly, don’t think this is a problem. Open field ACs are easy to handle, and if an AC is well-placed on a wall it can be tough to take down, but is still able to be taken down. Countersiege the ACs, or do whatever you need to. I’ve never had any particular issues with this on the receiving end or the giving end, and it seems like a good niche for the class in this role.

How is it a lock-down? The cripple is a 9s cd. Unless you have 10 warriors using crippling arrow in 1s countdowns, then it’s not going to lock you down. Does your group not have any stability, or condition removals?

Do you know what’s OP right now? Beam technology and reflection. It will destroy carts way out of range of the attacks. I’ve seen my arrow cart get hit for 15000 from a reflect. And that was on the last arrow. It got hit for 8k, 6k, 7k, etc before the arrows finished landing. A mesmer attacking a gate in wildcreek can hit an arrowcart in the Lord Room with the same ability at the same time. It’s so broken.

katniss.6735:

How is it a lock-down? The cripple is a 9s cd. Unless you have 10 warriors using crippling arrow in 1s countdowns, then it’s not going to lock you down. Does your group not have any stability, or condition removals?

I know it’s been said in this thread before, but just to make sure it’s clear, ACs hit you once a second for five seconds. That means you get immobilized for one second every second for a five second period, so it only takes 2 warriors. Also stability does not stop immobilize.

Yeah, I didn’t read 5 pages. Just the OP. I didn’t realize it hit 5 times in a row. That is the OP part then. I still think leg specialist should work on the first hit. I was a solo warrior using them yesterday and it only immobilized maybe 1 in every 5 people.

Tranquil Fury.3178:

Also stability does not stop immobilize.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Charge_%28warrior_skill%29
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Windborne_Speed
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pure_of_Voice

maybe these will help if running in a large group?

for now anyway

Flubble.8093:

Tranquil Fury.3178:

Also stability does not stop immobilize.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Charge_%28warrior_skill%29
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Windborne_Speed
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pure_of_Voice

maybe these will help if running in a large group?

for now anyway

Not at all. It’s not one 5 second immobilize, its five 1 second immobilizes. Even if you cure it, it just gets reapplied a second later.

naphack.9346:

It’s fine. Thieves can spam AoE weakness with treb, Rangers can give all siege bonus damage(spirit of frost), Engineers can have their turrets out while operating, Eles and guardians can swap out and drop some anti projectile fields… Every class got something to offer on siege…

What does a necro have to offer on siege?

Gismor.8407:

DevonCarver.5370:

We are aware of this little strategy and have our top minds hammering out possible solutions.

Let me ask you something: why take away something that gives defenders a chance to hold a location, just because a few people cried over it? It seems pointless. You might as well remove traits altogether, and have only 1 attack, that way everyone quits crying… :|

-Sir Tryce

P.S. Devon, can you give me a VALID reason to get rid of something like this? I’d appreciate it.

70 Defenders with 6 Leg Specialists on arrow carts. How do you break though?

GrandmaFunk.3052:

Ugh it doesn’t need a solution, please don’t nerf one of the few options we have to help defend against overwhelming numerical superiority.

It works both ways. When the defenders outnumbers the attackers, the smaller attackers got zero chance due to Leg Specialist.

CHIPS.6018:

Gismor.8407:

DevonCarver.5370:

We are aware of this little strategy and have our top minds hammering out possible solutions.

Let me ask you something: why take away something that gives defenders a chance to hold a location, just because a few people cried over it? It seems pointless. You might as well remove traits altogether, and have only 1 attack, that way everyone quits crying… :|

-Sir Tryce

P.S. Devon, can you give me a VALID reason to get rid of something like this? I’d appreciate it.

70 Defenders with 6 Leg Specialists on arrow carts. How do you break though?

You leave a small force to keep the defending force busy, while everything they left undefended is free for the taking.

elderan.2638:

Not at all. It’s not one 5 second immobilize, its five 1 second immobilizes. Even if you cure it, it just gets reapplied a second later.

If you just stand there and let it hit you, then yeah. Why wouldn’t you dodge roll out of the circle the moment your cleansed the immobilize?

CHIPS.6018:

Gismor.8407:

DevonCarver.5370:

We are aware of this little strategy and have our top minds hammering out possible solutions.

Let me ask you something: why take away something that gives defenders a chance to hold a location, just because a few people cried over it? It seems pointless. You might as well remove traits altogether, and have only 1 attack, that way everyone quits crying… :|

-Sir Tryce

P.S. Devon, can you give me a VALID reason to get rid of something like this? I’d appreciate it.

70 Defenders with 6 Leg Specialists on arrow carts. How do you break though?

If a keep has 70 defenders, I doubt Leg Specialist is the main reason you can’t take the keep.

CHIPS.6018:

GrandmaFunk.3052:

Ugh it doesn’t need a solution, please don’t nerf one of the few options we have to help defend against overwhelming numerical superiority.

It works both ways. When the defenders outnumbers the attackers, the smaller attackers got zero chance due to Leg Specialist.

If the attacking force is smaller then the defending force, the attackers should not be able to take the tower anyways. The defending group should have the advantage, as it stands now AC’s with or with out LS are the only things stopping large forces from just PvD. If you have 50+ people on a paper keep or tower you don’t even need rams…

To those arguing that this is a great defense against zerg tactics, it’s also a great defense against a smaller group, to the extent that a smaller group wouldn’t stand a chance.

This can only promote zerg tactics even further.

CHIPS.6018:

What does a necro have to offer on siege?

Hemophilia and other conditions duration/damage buffs.

Seems to be a trend in WvW updates that those who whine the most always get what they want. A-net probably doesn’t see that only a small percentage of the people posts on those forums and that the biggest amount of those people who do are only doing so to complain. Give it a break.

If you afraid to get locked down by an arrowcart with a warrior then make siege to get those arrowcarts down and then move forward.

DevonCarver.5370:

We are aware of this little strategy and have our top minds hammering out possible solutions.

Best solution:

Get rid of cripple on arrow cart and replace with immobilize. Reduce duration of immobilize arrows from 5 seconds to 2. Each immobilizing arrow applies 2 seconds of immobilize.

Done.

I think the biggest issue isn’t the trait, but the way the arrow carts do the attacks. When you do the AoE, it basically pulses the damage over several seconds, so the immobilize can get reapplied constantly (also negating any use of condition removals). So, the issue is with the AC attacks not the warrior trait.

As for the strategy, the only reason I feel it CAN be OP in some situations is it really makes it much more difficult for a smaller team to be effective anymore. It’s more of an issue that the AC’s have decently long range, so it can be almost impossible for a small group to even get to the AC’s or get to the warriors. However, here are some solutions I’ve found as a mesmer (and Im sure there are others with other classes):
1. Blink towards to Ac’s and use a knockback or just attack the warrior. Most of the time this works since you can blink through where the warrior is using it
2. Use combination of blinks and portals to get your group on the AC’s
3. Use the mesmer focus pull to long range yank the warrior off.
4. Put a feedback on them. (Note, this DOESN’T actually affect them, which I think it should since you’re firing projectiles) , but for some reason people see the feedback bubble and now instictively run away
5. Use your distortion shatter to evade and get to the guy

So, yes it is a bit “OP”, but it is also fairly easily countered.

lmao keep trying to bring the warrior class down

I’m surprised they have to hammer out a solution. It is obvious what is going to happen with it: Leg specailist is going to get an internal cooldown.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I’m surprised they have to hammer out a solution. It is obvious what is going to happen with it: Leg specailist is going to get an internal cooldown.

Sadly I think your right…which would be good for the AC issue but kinda a nerf to the trait for everything else.

An internal cooldown would effectively shut it down altogether.. it would trigger on the very first arrow that makes contact and then ignore all the other hits on that character AND on anybody else in the AoE.

It would also nerf other uses of Leg Specialist .. such as Rifle2 with the piercing trait.. which would no longer “pierce”.

[state of the arrow cart and leg specialist]
Maj. DevonCarter: We have tops minds working on it now.
Me: Who?
Maj. DevonCarte: Tops… Minds…

<3

about the 5 op thing: I think I developped a guardian build than can be unkillable if you run in a party of 5,

on the other part, how would -condition duration work on this, since there are some armor stats that do this… since 0.8 or 0.75 seconds of immobility can be noticed merely as movement lagg…

and indeed, an internal cooldown could fix this in my opinion, however if you would make the internal cooldown the way as said before, would render the trait worthless in some cases, it should maybe have a 5 seconds cooldown on activation, thus the first second of the ac hit will only immobilize people…

About time this got nerfed. There is a whole slew of things you can do to increase your effectiveness on siege now with the wvw xp.

Remove this or allow other primarily melee classes to do it as well. Pretty tired of being demanded to get off of arrow carts if your not a warrior.

Give a wxp tree for increasing arrow carts power on use for anyone.
Make AC more efficient for defense. WXP AC tree needed.

Rank1 – 5wxp – A fourth attack that proc bleed and handicap for 7sec with increased based damages
Rank2 – 10wxp – range +500ft
Rank3 – 15wxp – increase radius
Rank4 – 20wxp – increase damages by 25%
Rank5 – 25wxp – 1sec immobilize when procing handicap (attack number 2 and 4 of AC)

Titan.3472:

Give a wxp tree for increasing arrow carts power on use for anyone.
Make AC more efficient for defense. WXP AC tree needed.

Rank1 – 5wxp – A fourth attack that proc bleed and handicap for 7sec with increased based damages
Rank2 – 10wxp – range +500ft
Rank3 – 15wxp – increase radius
Rank4 – 20wxp – increase damages by 25%
Rank5 – 25wxp – 1sec immobilize when procing handicap (attack number 2 and 4 of AC)

Rank 5 – 50 wxp – zoom out further when using an arrow cart <3

better

And anet should really look at it the other way and make more traits work with siege.
(thieves got some nice trait with +10% damage while holding a bundle )

RyuDragnier.9476:

Gismor.8407:

P.S. Devon, can you give me a VALID reason to get rid of something like this? I’d appreciate it.

I can give you one. It gives one class an unfair advantage over another using something that shouldn’t be affecting it to begin with. Though I’d like for them to give immobilizing arrows to arrow carts as skill #4…would be nice.

Warriors are already at a severe disadvantage in large-scale WvW battles – we have extremely limited utility, even when specced heavily into it, and our DPS is bottom-of-the-pack at range (melee is suicide in large battles since we have so few escapes and condition removals). Is it fair to us to lose one of the very few advantages we have? I enjoy defending, and Leg Specialist is literally the only reason I take my Warrior into WvW instead of my venomshare Thief (or any other character).

I desperately hope that ANet will provide Warriors with much more utility, even if it means that 100b Power scaling or Forceful Greatsword (the primary reasons our PvE DPS is overpowered) get nerfed. If that happened, I’d be okay with Leg Specialist no longer affecting carts.

hey i have a better idea.
how about we nerf warriors at WvW so it can now only move and /wave ?

What everybody wants?
To press [V] and dodge everything what they throw at you while you attacking a big mothakittening castle?

It also only affects small number of ppl.

But no. We have to fix it.
But mesmer portals and stealth is LOLOLOLOL LEGAL kitten . ofcourse.

I agree with the 2 posters above me.

Gismor.8407:

DevonCarver.5370:

We are aware of this little strategy and have our top minds hammering out possible solutions.

Let me ask you something: why take away something that gives defenders a chance to hold a location, just because a few people cried over it? It seems pointless. You might as well remove traits altogether, and have only 1 attack, that way everyone quits crying… :|

-Sir Tryce

P.S. Devon, can you give me a VALID reason to get rid of something like this? I’d appreciate it.

Where, exactly, does that quote say that they’re removing it?
It’s quite possible that they are working on making it available to every AC to some degree (maybe 3 pulses instead of 5 or something) instead of only being available to one class.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Gismor.8407:

DevonCarver.5370:

We are aware of this little strategy and have our top minds hammering out possible solutions.

Let me ask you something: why take away something that gives defenders a chance to hold a location, just because a few people cried over it? It seems pointless. You might as well remove traits altogether, and have only 1 attack, that way everyone quits crying… :|

-Sir Tryce

P.S. Devon, can you give me a VALID reason to get rid of something like this? I’d appreciate it.

Where, exactly, does that quote say that they’re removing it?
It’s quite possible that they are working on making it available to every AC to some degree (maybe 3 pulses instead of 5 or something) instead of only being available to one class.

They will likely tweak it a little bit so as to not completely remove or change the trait and its effects, but rather bring this into balance with other traits that affect siege. A likely outcome would be an internal CD long enough to balance the AC issue without affecting any of the warrior’s other abilities that cripple. In all likelihood perma-immobilize will still be possible, but will require much greater numbers (i.e. 6 or 7 ACs as opposed to 2 or 3).

As for a valid reason, that’s been stated everywhere in this thread. Immobilize is a very powerful condition (definitely more powerful than the other traits that affect siege) and this allows it to be applied in massive quantities for very little cost. While it is not without counters, it allows a very small number of players to overcome or stall a very large number of players not through skill, for a length of time that should not be possible.