Guild Wars 2

I think you see less thieves because of the wxp patch made everyone zerg which means less target for thieves. In small man whatever is left of it it’s still thieve city. I’d say I see 2x thieves than rest classes combined. Rangers are making a bit of comeback and a lot less eles.

Pooka.3420:

Culling Fixed = Less Thieves. Respect to the ones who still make it work.

This won’t really get any sympathy. I could live with no thieves at all until the profession is balanced. Instakilling and perma stealth is something I could live without entirely.

timidobserver.7925:

Pooka.3420:

Culling Fixed = Less Thieves. Respect to the ones who still make it work.

This won’t really get any sympathy. I could live with no thieves at all until the profession is balanced. Instakilling and perma stealth is something I could live without entirely.

If only thieves had either of those (or didn’t suffer insane disadvantages for taking one or the other).

Arganthium.5638:

timidobserver.7925:

Pooka.3420:

Culling Fixed = Less Thieves. Respect to the ones who still make it work.

This won’t really get any sympathy. I could live with no thieves at all until the profession is balanced. Instakilling and perma stealth is something I could live without entirely.

If only thieves had either of those (or didn’t suffer insane disadvantages for taking one or the other).

Yes, there should be insane disadvantages for being able to insta kill people or in combat stealth over and over with little to no real cooldown. The profession is completely broken right now, so yeh I am fine with no one playing them.

timidobserver.7925:

Arganthium.5638:

timidobserver.7925:

Pooka.3420:

Culling Fixed = Less Thieves. Respect to the ones who still make it work.

This won’t really get any sympathy. I could live with no thieves at all until the profession is balanced. Instakilling and perma stealth is something I could live without entirely.

If only thieves had either of those (or didn’t suffer insane disadvantages for taking one or the other).

Yes, there should be insane disadvantages for being able to insta kill people or in combat stealth over and over with little to no real cooldown. The profession is completely broken right now, so yeh I am fine with no one playing them.

1. We can’t “instakill” anybody. As a thief that primarily plays “bunker” or “balanced” thieves, I’ve run up against glass cannon noobs plenty of times before. Simply stun break, stealth, heal, and mince them up if you’re like me, because GC thieves have such little defense. Of course, not everybody can stealth, but they also tend to have more healing and defense than thieves do anyways, so as long as they can stunbreak and roll away quickly from an initial attack by a GC/“instakill” thief, then you’re golden. You should have no issues slicing the thief to pieces.

2. Revealed. We can’t attack from stealth without getting it, and it lasts long enough to get in a lot of attacks on a thief; often times, more than half of their health or more can be depleted while a thief is revealed. We don’t have a lot of ways to access stealth; our only utilities for getting it are HiS, BP, and SR. All have long cooldowns on them, or long enough that they can’t really be abused. BP, also, really only comes with a blind and a stealth, and that’s it, so even that isn’t that great. As for attacks, it’s very difficult to maintain stealth simply via our attacks and combos. CnD is easily avoidable, has only a very short stealth, does little damage, and very little else outside of that. It also uses up 50% of our base initiative (40% if you have Trickery 15). The combo with D/P is also very costly, and somewhat inefficient.

The point is that the first of these two “problems” comes with virtually no defense, and the second with virtually no offense.

No fears, we d/d thieves are still out there too. Needless to say, we were not happy with the changes. So many of us started traveling in packs of two or more. We can’t let our reputation, nor the fear the profession’s very presence instills, dissipate simply because a few people D’X now can we?

Got a Norn warrior attempting a solo-cap yesterday. We popped stealth, came in from either side of him, and dropped him with a double backstab. Fell like a stone, health from full to nothing in seconds flat. I’ve also singlehandedly held off 10 or more from capping our supply for full minutes, staying within the circle until help could arrive. Even managed to drop a few, but couldn’t finish of course with so many. Point being, a half decent thief is still a force to be reckoned with, and one with any respectability will not let these simple changes deter them from performing their duties to their server.

Arganthium.5638:

timidobserver.7925:

Arganthium.5638:

timidobserver.7925:

Pooka.3420:

Culling Fixed = Less Thieves. Respect to the ones who still make it work.

This won’t really get any sympathy. I could live with no thieves at all until the profession is balanced. Instakilling and perma stealth is something I could live without entirely.

If only thieves had either of those (or didn’t suffer insane disadvantages for taking one or the other).

Yes, there should be insane disadvantages for being able to insta kill people or in combat stealth over and over with little to no real cooldown. The profession is completely broken right now, so yeh I am fine with no one playing them.

1. We can’t “instakill” anybody. As a thief that primarily plays “bunker” or “balanced” thieves, I’ve run up against glass cannon noobs plenty of times before. Simply stun break, stealth, heal, and mince them up if you’re like me, because GC thieves have such little defense. Of course, not everybody can stealth, but they also tend to have more healing and defense than thieves do anyways, so as long as they can stunbreak and roll away quickly from an initial attack by a GC/“instakill” thief, then you’re golden. You should have no issues slicing the thief to pieces.

2. Revealed. We can’t attack from stealth without getting it, and it lasts long enough to get in a lot of attacks on a thief; often times, more than half of their health or more can be depleted while a thief is revealed. We don’t have a lot of ways to access stealth; our only utilities for getting it are HiS, BP, and SR. All have long cooldowns on them, or long enough that they can’t really be abused. BP, also, really only comes with a blind and a stealth, and that’s it, so even that isn’t that great. As for attacks, it’s very difficult to maintain stealth simply via our attacks and combos. CnD is easily avoidable, has only a very short stealth, does little damage, and very little else outside of that. It also uses up 50% of our base initiative (40% if you have Trickery 15). The combo with D/P is also very costly, and somewhat inefficient.

The point is that the first of these two “problems” comes with virtually no defense, and the second with virtually no offense.

On insta kill:
Maybe your build doesn’t insta kill people, but the thief profession is capable of it.

On stealth:
I guess you haven’t discovered the new builds since that update. The thieves I see dont’ really have an issue getting back into stealth quick enough to avoid dying unless you are attacking them with 5-10 people.

timidobserver.7925:

On insta kill:
Maybe your build doesn’t insta kill people, but the thief profession is capable of it.

On stealth:
I guess you haven’t discovered the new builds since that update. The thieves I see dont’ really have an issue getting back into stealth quick enough to avoid dying unless you are attacking them with 5-10 people.

Yes, “insta-kill” is still very possible (if you can even call it that, since it takes 2-3 skills to backstab anyhow, profession depending). What the fellow you were responding to was trying to convey though is that it’s no longer practical. The glory days of the glass cannon are largely gone. Nowadays, even the most damage-specced thief, such as myself, needs a bit of extra durability if we are to survive with the new post-culling and Revealed effects.

KStudios.2850:

timidobserver.7925:

On insta kill:
Maybe your build doesn’t insta kill people, but the thief profession is capable of it.

On stealth:
I guess you haven’t discovered the new builds since that update. The thieves I see dont’ really have an issue getting back into stealth quick enough to avoid dying unless you are attacking them with 5-10 people.

Yes, “insta-kill” is still very possible (if you can even call it that, since it takes 2-3 skills to backstab anyhow, profession depending). What the fellow you were responding to was trying to convey though is that it’s no longer practical. The glory days of the glass cannon are largely gone. Nowadays, even the most damage-specced thief, such as myself, needs a bit of extra durability if we are to survive with the new post-culling and Revealed effects.

He said “We can’t “instakill” anybody” which is different from what you are saying he said. What he said is simply false.

Anyway, I can live with the damage honestly, but stealth needs a massive nerf. Other tools to compensate for it can be added in.

timidobserver.7925:

KStudios.2850:

timidobserver.7925:

On insta kill:
Maybe your build doesn’t insta kill people, but the thief profession is capable of it.

On stealth:
I guess you haven’t discovered the new builds since that update. The thieves I see dont’ really have an issue getting back into stealth quick enough to avoid dying unless you are attacking them with 5-10 people.

Yes, “insta-kill” is still very possible (if you can even call it that, since it takes 2-3 skills to backstab anyhow, profession depending). What the fellow you were responding to was trying to convey though is that it’s no longer practical. The glory days of the glass cannon are largely gone. Nowadays, even the most damage-specced thief, such as myself, needs a bit of extra durability if we are to survive with the new post-culling and Revealed effects.

He said “We can’t “instakill” anybody” which is different from what you are saying he said.

What he said is simply false.

Well then, he should have said, “we can only insta-kill kittens who lack defense, cause we too are offense and no defense.”

This, is true.

And no, stealth already got a nerf with post-culling. The average stealth skill now minus Refuge only lasts 3 seconds. Nerf it more, you kill the profession.

KStudios.2850:

timidobserver.7925:

KStudios.2850:

timidobserver.7925:

On insta kill:
Maybe your build doesn’t insta kill people, but the thief profession is capable of it.

On stealth:
I guess you haven’t discovered the new builds since that update. The thieves I see dont’ really have an issue getting back into stealth quick enough to avoid dying unless you are attacking them with 5-10 people.

Yes, “insta-kill” is still very possible (if you can even call it that, since it takes 2-3 skills to backstab anyhow, profession depending). What the fellow you were responding to was trying to convey though is that it’s no longer practical. The glory days of the glass cannon are largely gone. Nowadays, even the most damage-specced thief, such as myself, needs a bit of extra durability if we are to survive with the new post-culling and Revealed effects.

He said “We can’t “instakill” anybody” which is different from what you are saying he said.

What he said is simply false.

Well then, he should have said, “we can only insta-kill kittens who lack defense, cause we too are offense and no defense.”

This, is true.

The statement that thieves can’t insta kill is false, end of. Like I said, I can live with the damage though.

Stealth needs massive changes though. I didn’t say nerf it without providing compensation, but yeh being able to poof around a group of 10 people while they aimlessly strike at air is a no go in my book. Maybe I am just used to all of the other MMOS I’ve played that put real limitations on in combat stealthing.

No profession should be invincible. While they can’t really kill effectively when specced like this, a thief speccecd/geared properly into stealth can render themselves invincible to all but a zerg coming down on them. That shouldn’t be possible once they have committed to combat and blown their escape cards. They shouldn’t be able to endlessly escape.

timidobserver.7925:

KStudios.2850:

timidobserver.7925:

KStudios.2850:

timidobserver.7925:

On insta kill:
Maybe your build doesn’t insta kill people, but the thief profession is capable of it.

On stealth:
I guess you haven’t discovered the new builds since that update. The thieves I see dont’ really have an issue getting back into stealth quick enough to avoid dying unless you are attacking them with 5-10 people.

Yes, “insta-kill” is still very possible (if you can even call it that, since it takes 2-3 skills to backstab anyhow, profession depending). What the fellow you were responding to was trying to convey though is that it’s no longer practical. The glory days of the glass cannon are largely gone. Nowadays, even the most damage-specced thief, such as myself, needs a bit of extra durability if we are to survive with the new post-culling and Revealed effects.

He said “We can’t “instakill” anybody” which is different from what you are saying he said.

What he said is simply false.

Well then, he should have said, “we can only insta-kill kittens who lack defense, cause we too are offense and no defense.”

This, is true.

The statement that thieves can’t insta kill is false, end of. Like I said, I can live with the damage though.

Stealth needs massive changes though. I didn’t say nerf it without providing compensation, but yeh being able to poof around a group of 10 people while they aimlessly strike at air is a no go in my book. Maybe I am just used to all of the other MMOS I’ve played that put real limitations on in combat stealthing.

I did not deny that. I’m saying any thief specced to “insta-kill” anyone is already dead the moment they appear. So they manage to smoke what, one person? Out of the entire hoard you may be traveling with? That’s a dead kamikaze thief.

What further limitations do you require for stealth to be to your liking? There’s only four viable stealth skills to begin with. And as stated, the average one is only 3 seconds, bar Refuge (Seriously, look them up. Cloak and Dagger, Hide in Shadows, Blinding Powder, and Shadow Refuge). I also add that Revealed is 4 seconds, in contrast. Cloak and Dagger even actually requires the thief to touch you directly. Which is probably the one you’re so on about in the first place, since it’s the one that recharges the fastest. What more do you want?

My advice to you, since I can pretty well assume you don’t play a thief (you’re singing the same song many non-thief players do). If you’re scared of thieves, play one… It’s really the best advice I can possibly give. Learn the mechanics, erase the fear. It’s actually an exceptionally difficult high precsion class. You’d respect the good thieves you’ve seen more. I know I did once I got the same advice and tried it. Before then, I was singing that same song.

Lastly, please tell me you’re a member of Borliss Pass or Anvil Rock? Cause if you’re dealing with a thief that is really that good, you’d make my day cause I’d know it’s probably me or someone I know. Lmao!

I always find it weird how people complain thieves are hard to catch.

I don’t think they understand the concept of a thief…
Let me say this again
A thief
Thief
Thief

For those who don’t know what a Thief is, he is someone who strikes, and can escape easily. What does a thief do in real life? Steal and then get the hell out of there. 7/11 robbers don’t stay there for the police to come, do they?

KStudios.2850:

timidobserver.7925:

KStudios.2850:

timidobserver.7925:

KStudios.2850:

timidobserver.7925:

On insta kill:
Maybe your build doesn’t insta kill people, but the thief profession is capable of it.

On stealth:
I guess you haven’t discovered the new builds since that update. The thieves I see dont’ really have an issue getting back into stealth quick enough to avoid dying unless you are attacking them with 5-10 people.

Yes, “insta-kill” is still very possible (if you can even call it that, since it takes 2-3 skills to backstab anyhow, profession depending). What the fellow you were responding to was trying to convey though is that it’s no longer practical. The glory days of the glass cannon are largely gone. Nowadays, even the most damage-specced thief, such as myself, needs a bit of extra durability if we are to survive with the new post-culling and Revealed effects.

He said “We can’t “instakill” anybody” which is different from what you are saying he said.

What he said is simply false.

Well then, he should have said, “we can only insta-kill kittens who lack defense, cause we too are offense and no defense.”

This, is true.

The statement that thieves can’t insta kill is false, end of. Like I said, I can live with the damage though.

Stealth needs massive changes though. I didn’t say nerf it without providing compensation, but yeh being able to poof around a group of 10 people while they aimlessly strike at air is a no go in my book. Maybe I am just used to all of the other MMOS I’ve played that put real limitations on in combat stealthing.

I did not deny that. I’m saying any thief specced to “insta-kill” anyone is already dead the moment they appear. So they manage to smoke what, one person? Out of the entire hoard you may be traveling with? That’s a dead kamikaze thief.

What more limitations do you require for stealth to be to your liking? There’s only four viable stealth skills to begin with. And as stated, the average one is only 3 seconds, bar Refuge (Seriously, look them up. Cloak and Dagger, Hide in Shadows, Blinding Powder, and Shadow Refuge). I also add that Revealed is 4 seconds, in contrast. Cloak and Dagger even actually requires the thief to touch you directly. Which is probably the one you’re so on about in the first place, since it’s the one that recharges the fastest. What more do you want?

My advice to you, since I can pretty well assume you don’t play a thief (you’re singing the same song many non-thief players do) if you’re scared of thieves. Play one… It’s really the best advice I can possibly give. Learn the mechanics, erase the fear. It’s actually an exceptionally difficult high precsion class. You’d respect the good thieves you’ve seen more. I know I did once I got the same advice and tried it. Before then, I was singing that same song.

On what would satisfy me:
I feel that in combat stealth should not be that useful for combat. It should get you out of combat and allow you to escape. However, it shouldn’t be that useful as a combat mechanic. If you use it, it should be to get away, not to repeatedly take a break and then attack again.

On scared of theives:
I play a guardian and an engineer. I can survive them on both classes, although the engi can go down fast if I am caught unaware. Neither can catch a thief unless the thief is played poorly.

Doomdesire.9365:

I always find it weird how people complain thieves are hard to catch.

I don’t think they understand the concept of a thief…
Let me say this again
A thief
Thief
Thief

For those who don’t know what a Thief is, he is someone who strikes, and can escape easily. What does a thief do in real life? Steal and then get the hell out of there. 7/11 robbers don’t stay there for the police to come, do they?

There is a difference between hard to catch and impossible to catch.
If you want to go into the semantics and concept of what it means to be a thief, then yeh they should be hard to catch because they are a thief. However, a thief that constantly escapes and returns to the scene of his crime should be caught. Thieves don’t rob the same place 10 times in one night. AKA, constant in combat stealthing is an issue.

less thieves, more guardians……sigh, and they all run around together too…

timidobserver.7925:

On what would satisfy me:
I feel that in combat stealth should not be that useful for combat. It should get you out of combat and allow you to escape. However, it shouldn’t be that useful as a combat mechanic. If you use it, it should be to get away, not to repeatedly take a break and then attack again.

On scared of theives:
I play a guardian and an engineer. I can survive them on both classes, although the engi can go down fast if I am caught unaware. Neither can catch a thief unless the thief is played poorly.

Then I don’t see what it is you’re complaining about… That you didn’t kill a single person? What good does that do your server in the grander scheme of things? Stop wasting time here an go cap some towers, be proactive.

You know what the first thing my mentor told me about playing thief was? Yes, thieving in GW2 often requires an initial mentor, THAT’S the the class you’re so raving about. The only class in the game that does. He told me when first starting out, “LEAVE… THE… KITTENING… GUARDIANS… ALONE!” Until you get your feet wet and learn to break one down that is. Did you see my first post here on this thread, and my comment about that warrior? Similar concept. The only way we’re gonna take a guardian typically is one, with either a lot of time to chip them down (which as we both know is not usually going to happen in WvW), or two, bring assistance. Guardian is FAR more OP than any single thief, and don’t even get me started on d/d Elementalists. I’m often little more than an annoying distraction to either one of those two.

Don’t let a little Blinding Powder cloud more than your sight and muddle your judgement as well, my tanky and probably very large friend. Maybe wave at the next thief you see scrambling to escape that moments ago gave you and those you’re rolling with a moments pause. He/she is working hard to do it, and taking huge risks with his/her life to do so. Cause in the end, you’re overall a lot scarier than he/she is.

Doomdesire.9365:

I always find it weird how people complain thieves are hard to catch.

I don’t think they understand the concept of a thief…
Let me say this again
A thief
Thief
Thief

For those who don’t know what a Thief is, he is someone who strikes, and can escape easily. What does a thief do in real life? Steal and then get the hell out of there. 7/11 robbers don’t stay there for the police to come, do they?

Darn straight they don’t. Cops like to zerg, camp bottle-neck points (one-way highways), and half the time I swear they build waypoints at the nearest Quiktrip. Pop up outta nowhere! D=

If you think thief is OP. PLEASE! PLEASE iam begging you make one and go one of yours WTFIMBAGLASSCANNON build and tell me how it went….

Strippling.3524:

Culling Fixed = less thieves for Pooka Pooka to kill

Pooka is still trolling on YB, eh?

BadHabitZz.1856:

If you think thief is OP. PLEASE! PLEASE iam begging you make one and go one of yours WTFIMBAGLASSCANNON build and tell me how it went….

As a Thief in WvW, I think they’re OP in some areas, while they need help in others. You do not need to run glass canon to kill people, you do not have to have stealth to stay alive, though it helps. No other class in the game can evade, or teleport as often as a Thief built correctly.

Honestly, the stealth and haste issues didn’t directly effect me. My build’s been high Acro for a good chunk of the time I’ve run the alt. I tend to run SB + P/P or S/P and hit folks from all over the place. Don’t get me wrong, I can see the issue stealth builds are having. If my entire timing chain got thrown off by even a second, it’d definitely mess things up.
As for the PW business: hells YES, revert PW damage. Haste’s half of what it used to be, so I’d like my PW back to spec. Failing that, at least remove the bloody self-root.

Exarthious.5792:

BadHabitZz.1856:

If you think thief is OP. PLEASE! PLEASE iam begging you make one and go one of yours WTFIMBAGLASSCANNON build and tell me how it went….

As a Thief in WvW, I think they’re OP in some areas, while they need help in others. You do not need to run glass canon to kill people, you do not have to have stealth to stay alive, though it helps. No other class in the game can evade, or teleport as often as a Thief built correctly.

Thieves are escape masters, but i dont think that makes them OP. Thieves are very annoying i get it but i just hate when someone acting like we walking around permainvis and IK anyone we see…

KStudios.2850:

timidobserver.7925:

KStudios.2850:

timidobserver.7925:

On insta kill:
Maybe your build doesn’t insta kill people, but the thief profession is capable of it.

On stealth:
I guess you haven’t discovered the new builds since that update. The thieves I see dont’ really have an issue getting back into stealth quick enough to avoid dying unless you are attacking them with 5-10 people.

Yes, “insta-kill” is still very possible (if you can even call it that, since it takes 2-3 skills to backstab anyhow, profession depending). What the fellow you were responding to was trying to convey though is that it’s no longer practical. The glory days of the glass cannon are largely gone. Nowadays, even the most damage-specced thief, such as myself, needs a bit of extra durability if we are to survive with the new post-culling and Revealed effects.

He said “We can’t “instakill” anybody” which is different from what you are saying he said.

What he said is simply false.

Well then, he should have said, “we can only insta-kill kittens who lack defense, cause we too are offense and no defense.”

This, is true.

And no, stealth already got a nerf with post-culling. The average stealth skill now minus Refuge only lasts 3 seconds. Nerf it more, you kill the profession.

Just to clear things up here- mostly for Timid- my original response said that we couldn’t “insta-kill” anybody without suffering the huge disadvantages that thieves who play GC suffer. That’s what my response that “we can’t ‘insta-kill’ anybody” was referring to. Sure, you can, but both theoretically and practically, it is a horribly weak strategy.

Arganthium.5638:

KStudios.2850:

timidobserver.7925:

KStudios.2850:

timidobserver.7925:

On insta kill:
Maybe your build doesn’t insta kill people, but the thief profession is capable of it.

On stealth:
I guess you haven’t discovered the new builds since that update. The thieves I see dont’ really have an issue getting back into stealth quick enough to avoid dying unless you are attacking them with 5-10 people.

Yes, “insta-kill” is still very possible (if you can even call it that, since it takes 2-3 skills to backstab anyhow, profession depending). What the fellow you were responding to was trying to convey though is that it’s no longer practical. The glory days of the glass cannon are largely gone. Nowadays, even the most damage-specced thief, such as myself, needs a bit of extra durability if we are to survive with the new post-culling and Revealed effects.

He said “We can’t “instakill” anybody” which is different from what you are saying he said.

What he said is simply false.

Well then, he should have said, “we can only insta-kill kittens who lack defense, cause we too are offense and no defense.”

This, is true.

And no, stealth already got a nerf with post-culling. The average stealth skill now minus Refuge only lasts 3 seconds. Nerf it more, you kill the profession.

Just to clear things up here- mostly for Timid- my original response said that we couldn’t “insta-kill” anybody without suffering the huge disadvantages that thieves who play GC suffer. That’s what my response that “we can’t ‘insta-kill’ anybody” was referring to. Sure, you can, but both theoretically and practically, it is a horribly weak strategy.

I figured as much, and tried to relay such.

Arganthium.5638:

KStudios.2850:

timidobserver.7925:

KStudios.2850:

timidobserver.7925:

On insta kill:
Maybe your build doesn’t insta kill people, but the thief profession is capable of it.

On stealth:
I guess you haven’t discovered the new builds since that update. The thieves I see dont’ really have an issue getting back into stealth quick enough to avoid dying unless you are attacking them with 5-10 people.

Yes, “insta-kill” is still very possible (if you can even call it that, since it takes 2-3 skills to backstab anyhow, profession depending). What the fellow you were responding to was trying to convey though is that it’s no longer practical. The glory days of the glass cannon are largely gone. Nowadays, even the most damage-specced thief, such as myself, needs a bit of extra durability if we are to survive with the new post-culling and Revealed effects.

He said “We can’t “instakill” anybody” which is different from what you are saying he said.

What he said is simply false.

Well then, he should have said, “we can only insta-kill kittens who lack defense, cause we too are offense and no defense.”

This, is true.

And no, stealth already got a nerf with post-culling. The average stealth skill now minus Refuge only lasts 3 seconds. Nerf it more, you kill the profession.

Just to clear things up here- mostly for Timid- my original response said that we couldn’t “insta-kill” anybody without suffering the huge disadvantages that thieves who play GC suffer. That’s what my response that “we can’t ‘insta-kill’ anybody” was referring to. Sure, you can, but both theoretically and practically, it is a horribly weak strategy.

" We can’t “instakill” anybody. " <~~~~Direct quote from your post.

Sure you said it. In regard to instakilling, N=none of the following words appear anywhere in your original post: without, suffering, huge, disadvantages.

IMO, the thief insta kill stuff should have been removed or at least balanced right along with 100nades.

Doomdesire.9365:

For those who don’t know what a Thief is, he is someone who strikes, and can escape easily. What does a thief do in real life? Steal and then get the hell out of there. 7/11 robbers don’t stay there for the police to come, do they?

Strange, I thought thieves stole stuff and didn’t get involved in fighting… you know.. being a thief.

7/11 robbers don’t, typically, run in attack the shop keeper, beat them up and then run away. If anything they threaten and then run away.

I think the comparison you are looking for here is “assassin” in that it is someone who goes in, hits very hard (kills), and tries to escape.

timidobserver.7925:

Arganthium.5638:

KStudios.2850:

timidobserver.7925:

KStudios.2850:

timidobserver.7925:

On insta kill:
Maybe your build doesn’t insta kill people, but the thief profession is capable of it.

On stealth:
I guess you haven’t discovered the new builds since that update. The thieves I see dont’ really have an issue getting back into stealth quick enough to avoid dying unless you are attacking them with 5-10 people.

Yes, “insta-kill” is still very possible (if you can even call it that, since it takes 2-3 skills to backstab anyhow, profession depending). What the fellow you were responding to was trying to convey though is that it’s no longer practical. The glory days of the glass cannon are largely gone. Nowadays, even the most damage-specced thief, such as myself, needs a bit of extra durability if we are to survive with the new post-culling and Revealed effects.

He said “We can’t “instakill” anybody” which is different from what you are saying he said.

What he said is simply false.

Well then, he should have said, “we can only insta-kill kittens who lack defense, cause we too are offense and no defense.”

This, is true.

And no, stealth already got a nerf with post-culling. The average stealth skill now minus Refuge only lasts 3 seconds. Nerf it more, you kill the profession.

Just to clear things up here- mostly for Timid- my original response said that we couldn’t “insta-kill” anybody without suffering the huge disadvantages that thieves who play GC suffer. That’s what my response that “we can’t ‘insta-kill’ anybody” was referring to. Sure, you can, but both theoretically and practically, it is a horribly weak strategy.

" We can’t “instakill” anybody. " <~~~~Direct quote from your post.

Sure you said it. In regard to instakilling, N=none of the following words appear anywhere in your original post: without, suffering, huge, disadvantages.

IMO, the thief insta kill stuff should have been removed or at least balanced right along with 100nades.

If you say so. =P

It’s not merely a press of a single button that triggers Backstab though, several buttons in fact. Not like we’re just carrying about some death-remote or something. Again, it’s also something that takes considerable practice, and is often and easily botched.

Arganthium.5638:

timidobserver.7925:

Arganthium.5638:

timidobserver.7925:

Pooka.3420:

Culling Fixed = Less Thieves. Respect to the ones who still make it work.

This won’t really get any sympathy. I could live with no thieves at all until the profession is balanced. Instakilling and perma stealth is something I could live without entirely.

If only thieves had either of those (or didn’t suffer insane disadvantages for taking one or the other).

Yes, there should be insane disadvantages for being able to insta kill people or in combat stealth over and over with little to no real cooldown. The profession is completely broken right now, so yeh I am fine with no one playing them.

1. We can’t “instakill” anybody. As a thief that primarily plays “bunker” or “balanced” thieves, I’ve run up against glass cannon noobs plenty of times before. Simply stun break, stealth, heal, and mince them up if you’re like me, because GC thieves have such little defense. Of course, not everybody can stealth, but they also tend to have more healing and defense than thieves do anyways, so as long as they can stunbreak and roll away quickly from an initial attack by a GC/“instakill” thief, then you’re golden. You should have no issues slicing the thief to pieces.

2. Revealed. We can’t attack from stealth without getting it, and it lasts long enough to get in a lot of attacks on a thief; often times, more than half of their health or more can be depleted while a thief is revealed. We don’t have a lot of ways to access stealth; our only utilities for getting it are HiS, BP, and SR. All have long cooldowns on them, or long enough that they can’t really be abused. BP, also, really only comes with a blind and a stealth, and that’s it, so even that isn’t that great. As for attacks, it’s very difficult to maintain stealth simply via our attacks and combos. CnD is easily avoidable, has only a very short stealth, does little damage, and very little else outside of that. It also uses up 50% of our base initiative (40% if you have Trickery 15). The combo with D/P is also very costly, and somewhat inefficient.

The point is that the first of these two “problems” comes with virtually no defense, and the second with virtually no offense.

I play a near bunker guard
That said:
HS>c&d>bs>flame blast > stomp

literally instantly dead if I didn’t have aegis up, has happened multiple times now

Darek.1836:

Arganthium.5638:

timidobserver.7925:

Arganthium.5638:

timidobserver.7925:

Pooka.3420:

Culling Fixed = Less Thieves. Respect to the ones who still make it work.

This won’t really get any sympathy. I could live with no thieves at all until the profession is balanced. Instakilling and perma stealth is something I could live without entirely.

If only thieves had either of those (or didn’t suffer insane disadvantages for taking one or the other).

Yes, there should be insane disadvantages for being able to insta kill people or in combat stealth over and over with little to no real cooldown. The profession is completely broken right now, so yeh I am fine with no one playing them.

1. We can’t “instakill” anybody. As a thief that primarily plays “bunker” or “balanced” thieves, I’ve run up against glass cannon noobs plenty of times before. Simply stun break, stealth, heal, and mince them up if you’re like me, because GC thieves have such little defense. Of course, not everybody can stealth, but they also tend to have more healing and defense than thieves do anyways, so as long as they can stunbreak and roll away quickly from an initial attack by a GC/“instakill” thief, then you’re golden. You should have no issues slicing the thief to pieces.

2. Revealed. We can’t attack from stealth without getting it, and it lasts long enough to get in a lot of attacks on a thief; often times, more than half of their health or more can be depleted while a thief is revealed. We don’t have a lot of ways to access stealth; our only utilities for getting it are HiS, BP, and SR. All have long cooldowns on them, or long enough that they can’t really be abused. BP, also, really only comes with a blind and a stealth, and that’s it, so even that isn’t that great. As for attacks, it’s very difficult to maintain stealth simply via our attacks and combos. CnD is easily avoidable, has only a very short stealth, does little damage, and very little else outside of that. It also uses up 50% of our base initiative (40% if you have Trickery 15). The combo with D/P is also very costly, and somewhat inefficient.

The point is that the first of these two “problems” comes with virtually no defense, and the second with virtually no offense.

I play a near bunker guard
That said:
HS>c&d>bs>flame blast > stomp

literally instantly dead if I didn’t have aegis up, has happened multiple times now

Wait till boonhate next patch where steal will steal all your boons and makes it so you can’t reboon for 10 seconds. then add Mug that now does +2% damage per boon stolen.

Note: This is only how I hope boon hate works

Atherakhia.4086:

Darek.1836:

Arganthium.5638:

timidobserver.7925:

Arganthium.5638:

timidobserver.7925:

Pooka.3420:

Culling Fixed = Less Thieves. Respect to the ones who still make it work.

This won’t really get any sympathy. I could live with no thieves at all until the profession is balanced. Instakilling and perma stealth is something I could live without entirely.

If only thieves had either of those (or didn’t suffer insane disadvantages for taking one or the other).

Yes, there should be insane disadvantages for being able to insta kill people or in combat stealth over and over with little to no real cooldown. The profession is completely broken right now, so yeh I am fine with no one playing them.

1. We can’t “instakill” anybody. As a thief that primarily plays “bunker” or “balanced” thieves, I’ve run up against glass cannon noobs plenty of times before. Simply stun break, stealth, heal, and mince them up if you’re like me, because GC thieves have such little defense. Of course, not everybody can stealth, but they also tend to have more healing and defense than thieves do anyways, so as long as they can stunbreak and roll away quickly from an initial attack by a GC/“instakill” thief, then you’re golden. You should have no issues slicing the thief to pieces.

2. Revealed. We can’t attack from stealth without getting it, and it lasts long enough to get in a lot of attacks on a thief; often times, more than half of their health or more can be depleted while a thief is revealed. We don’t have a lot of ways to access stealth; our only utilities for getting it are HiS, BP, and SR. All have long cooldowns on them, or long enough that they can’t really be abused. BP, also, really only comes with a blind and a stealth, and that’s it, so even that isn’t that great. As for attacks, it’s very difficult to maintain stealth simply via our attacks and combos. CnD is easily avoidable, has only a very short stealth, does little damage, and very little else outside of that. It also uses up 50% of our base initiative (40% if you have Trickery 15). The combo with D/P is also very costly, and somewhat inefficient.

The point is that the first of these two “problems” comes with virtually no defense, and the second with virtually no offense.

I play a near bunker guard
That said:
HS>c&d>bs>flame blast > stomp

literally instantly dead if I didn’t have aegis up, has happened multiple times now

Wait till boonhate next patch where steal will steal all your boons and makes it so you can’t reboon for 10 seconds. then add Mug that now does +2% damage per boon stolen.

---

Note: This is only how I hope boon hate works

OMG nerf your idea! Quick! Before a thread gets started!

Doomdesire.9365:

I always find it weird how people complain thieves are hard to catch.

I don’t think they understand the concept of a thief…
Let me say this again
A thief
Thief
Thief

For those who don’t know what a Thief is, he is someone who strikes, and can escape easily. What does a thief do in real life? Steal and then get the hell out of there. 7/11 robbers don’t stay there for the police to come, do they?

Your argument is invalid because: What does a Engineer do in real life?

Mif.3471:

Your argument is invalid because: What does a Engineer do in real life?

They build concrete canoes.

Kitcat.1739:

Mif.3471:

Your argument is invalid because: What does a Engineer do in real life?

They build concrete canoes.

And predator drones….

Doomdesire.9365:

I always find it weird how people complain thieves are hard to catch.

I don’t think they understand the concept of a thief…
Let me say this again
A thief
Thief
Thief

For those who don’t know what a Thief is, he is someone who strikes, and can escape easily. What does a thief do in real life? Steal and then get the hell out of there. 7/11 robbers don’t stay there for the police to come, do they?

sure, a thief can escape easily, but it shouldn’t be capable of going invisible so easily. Perhaps Anet should’ve added some in combat speed boost, but the current version of popping in and out of invisibility is what’s not right about the class.

When you see a thief use black powder stand in the circle that is dropped. Have fun killing what you thought was op. Shame on you if you don’t know what black powder is or how it works. If you don’t know how a thief works how do you expect to defeat one! Most of you want easy kills just by the tone of your posts.

Summary : stand in circle stop thief from stacking stealth. Watch thief get mad his cheesy d/p failed. (I use death blossom, it stacks bleed and let’s me evade)

timidobserver.7925:

Arganthium.5638:

KStudios.2850:

timidobserver.7925:

KStudios.2850:

timidobserver.7925:

On insta kill:
Maybe your build doesn’t insta kill people, but the thief profession is capable of it.

On stealth:
I guess you haven’t discovered the new builds since that update. The thieves I see dont’ really have an issue getting back into stealth quick enough to avoid dying unless you are attacking them with 5-10 people.

Yes, “insta-kill” is still very possible (if you can even call it that, since it takes 2-3 skills to backstab anyhow, profession depending). What the fellow you were responding to was trying to convey though is that it’s no longer practical. The glory days of the glass cannon are largely gone. Nowadays, even the most damage-specced thief, such as myself, needs a bit of extra durability if we are to survive with the new post-culling and Revealed effects.

He said “We can’t “instakill” anybody” which is different from what you are saying he said.

What he said is simply false.

Well then, he should have said, “we can only insta-kill kittens who lack defense, cause we too are offense and no defense.”

This, is true.

And no, stealth already got a nerf with post-culling. The average stealth skill now minus Refuge only lasts 3 seconds. Nerf it more, you kill the profession.

Just to clear things up here- mostly for Timid- my original response said that we couldn’t “insta-kill” anybody without suffering the huge disadvantages that thieves who play GC suffer. That’s what my response that “we can’t ‘insta-kill’ anybody” was referring to. Sure, you can, but both theoretically and practically, it is a horribly weak strategy.

" We can’t “instakill” anybody. " <~~~~Direct quote from your post.

Sure you said it. In regard to instakilling, N=none of the following words appear anywhere in your original post: without, suffering, huge, disadvantages.

IMO, the thief insta kill stuff should have been removed or at least balanced right along with 100nades.

I also said

If only thieves had either of those (or didn’t suffer insane disadvantages for taking one or the other).

To which you replied

Yes, there should be insane disadvantages for being able to insta kill people or in combat stealth over and over with little to no real cooldown.

My original comment stated that we could obtain instakill, but practically and theoretically that it was impractical. My second comment conveyed this point of view. You’re not arguing because you want to be honest, you’re arguing because you can’t accept the fact that I disagree with you. You’re making strawmen out of my arguments, and the fact that such a large proportion of the anti-thief community has to resort to these tactics in order to “show” that thieves are supposedly OP shows just how little substance this platform has.

EDIT: In fact, here’s the entirety of what I said originally:

Arganthium.5638:

timidobserver.7925:

Pooka.3420:

Culling Fixed = Less Thieves. Respect to the ones who still make it work.

This won’t really get any sympathy. I could live with no thieves at all until the profession is balanced. Instakilling and perma stealth is something I could live without entirely.

If only thieves had either of those (or didn’t suffer insane disadvantages for taking one or the other).

Followed by your saying

timidobserver.7925:

Arganthium.5638:

timidobserver.7925:

Pooka.3420:

Culling Fixed = Less Thieves. Respect to the ones who still make it work.

This won’t really get any sympathy. I could live with no thieves at all until the profession is balanced. Instakilling and perma stealth is something I could live without entirely.

If only thieves had either of those (or didn’t suffer insane disadvantages for taking one or the other).

Yes, there should be insane disadvantages for being able to insta kill people or in combat stealth over and over with little to no real cooldown. The profession is completely broken right now, so yeh I am fine with no one playing them.

So those exact words did appear (or, failing that, synonyms of those words).

All the decent thieves are still playing them and dancing around inside of a group of 10 players because no one can hit them…. the mass of noobs that were playing them because they didn’t take any skill to perma stealth? Yes, there are far less of those.

The easy mode players just moved to Elementalists and Mesmers; I’m sure the more experienced Ele’s and Mes hate this though (now the over-powered/etc. hate is directed more towards them lol).

Boulderbolg.3460:

Strippling.3524:

Culling Fixed = less thieves for Pooka Pooka to kill

Pooka is still trolling on YB, eh?

Pooka is much nicer nowadays. Helpful Pooka is helpful.

TainoFuerte.8136:

Master of Timespace.2548:

^^ a zerger whose group got trolled by a decent roamer thief, har har.
Man, gotta love the nooblets who think they are entitled to stomp everything because they have more people.

^^ thief who thinks he’s skilled when he’s really just using abusing a broken game mechanic
Man, gotta love the nooblets who think they are entitled to stomp everything because they rolled thief. /imitation

Say small scale battles —> thief defender says you are a zerger.

I like this post, because it perfectly represents the thief abuser. No actual arguments and poor reading comprehension. His only true weapon is to attempt to insinuate his opposition is incompetent.

Thank you for your contribution.

If you lose 2v1 to anyone in this game, you can’t be very good or he happens to have a build that is extremely effective against you two*. If you don’t believe me, then roll a thief, join a dueling guild and see how well you will do. :P

*I can only think of two such scenarios where the 1 would be thief:
condition builds vs. d/p thief
direct damage bunkers with no condition removal vs. p/d thief

In every other case it’s extremely unlikely that thief can pull off a 2v1, given that they are all semi-decent players.

Mindtrick.5190:

When you see a thief use black powder stand in the circle that is dropped. Have fun killing what you thought was op. Shame on you if you don’t know what black powder is or how it works. If you don’t know how a thief works how do you expect to defeat one! Most of you want easy kills just by the tone of your posts.

Summary : stand in circle stop thief from stacking stealth. Watch thief get mad his cheesy d/p failed. (I use death blossom, it stacks bleed and let’s me evade)

Well, it’s not as simple as that:

If the thief is just trying to stack stealth for whatever reason without escaping, it will make them come out – this is true.

If the thief is trying to run away by stacking stealth and they see you standing inside the circle, they aren’t going to use heartseeker any more – they will just pick a random direction and run that way. You’re practically rooting yourself by standing there while I make my speedy getaway.

If the thief is trying to kill you doing so is a really bad idea. You blind yourself and make it so easy for me to backstab you.

I’m finding there’s definitely less d/d gc Thieves now, as I imagine the removal of culling + increase on reveal has made those builds very high risk indeed (which seems fitting). I mostly come up against less glassy, more balanced Thief builds now in WvW, which I find quite a bit more fun to play against.

I felt the same, after the culling fix/stealth nerf I tried very hard to keep the same D/D build I was using. While its still viable, it just much harder to do well and left very little room for error.

Sunflowers.1729:

Mindtrick.5190:

When you see a thief use black powder stand in the circle that is dropped. Have fun killing what you thought was op. Shame on you if you don’t know what black powder is or how it works. If you don’t know how a thief works how do you expect to defeat one! Most of you want easy kills just by the tone of your posts.

Summary : stand in circle stop thief from stacking stealth. Watch thief get mad his cheesy d/p failed. (I use death blossom, it stacks bleed and let’s me evade)

Well, it’s not as simple as that:

If the thief is just trying to stack stealth for whatever reason without escaping, it will make them come out – this is true.

If the thief is trying to run away by stacking stealth and they see you standing inside the circle, they aren’t going to use heartseeker any more – they will just pick a random direction and run that way. You’re practically rooting yourself by standing there while I make my speedy getaway.

If the thief is trying to kill you doing so is a really bad idea. You blind yourself and make it so easy for me to backstab you.

^ It’s not even necessarily that you’ll be backstabbed that is the issue. Simply the fact that you’re allowing an opponent to do whatever they want with you for four seconds while you can’t do anything back is an issue. I can guarantee you that if a warrior was allowed to simply stand next to you and attack you/whatever for four seconds straight, while you did nothing (by choice), that you wouldn’t be calling warrs “OP”.

Darek.1836:

Arganthium.5638:

timidobserver.7925:

Arganthium.5638:

timidobserver.7925:

Pooka.3420:

Culling Fixed = Less Thieves. Respect to the ones who still make it work.

This won’t really get any sympathy. I could live with no thieves at all until the profession is balanced. Instakilling and perma stealth is something I could live without entirely.

If only thieves had either of those (or didn’t suffer insane disadvantages for taking one or the other).

Yes, there should be insane disadvantages for being able to insta kill people or in combat stealth over and over with little to no real cooldown. The profession is completely broken right now, so yeh I am fine with no one playing them.

1. We can’t “instakill” anybody. As a thief that primarily plays “bunker” or “balanced” thieves, I’ve run up against glass cannon noobs plenty of times before. Simply stun break, stealth, heal, and mince them up if you’re like me, because GC thieves have such little defense. Of course, not everybody can stealth, but they also tend to have more healing and defense than thieves do anyways, so as long as they can stunbreak and roll away quickly from an initial attack by a GC/“instakill” thief, then you’re golden. You should have no issues slicing the thief to pieces.

2. Revealed. We can’t attack from stealth without getting it, and it lasts long enough to get in a lot of attacks on a thief; often times, more than half of their health or more can be depleted while a thief is revealed. We don’t have a lot of ways to access stealth; our only utilities for getting it are HiS, BP, and SR. All have long cooldowns on them, or long enough that they can’t really be abused. BP, also, really only comes with a blind and a stealth, and that’s it, so even that isn’t that great. As for attacks, it’s very difficult to maintain stealth simply via our attacks and combos. CnD is easily avoidable, has only a very short stealth, does little damage, and very little else outside of that. It also uses up 50% of our base initiative (40% if you have Trickery 15). The combo with D/P is also very costly, and somewhat inefficient.

The point is that the first of these two “problems” comes with virtually no defense, and the second with virtually no offense.

I play a near bunker guard
That said:
HS>c&d>bs>flame blast > stomp

literally instantly dead if I didn’t have aegis up, has happened multiple times now

Frankly, I don’t believe you. Not without evidence, anyways.

The issue, however, with this kind of thing tends to be avoiding the CnD, or not responding correctly to the stealth. The HS, with such high health and toughness, does hardly any damage to you. It’s really just a gap closer. When a thief is nearby (and you suspect GC or BS build), however, you have to take precautions to avoid the CnD. This can come in a variety of ways. For example, as a guard, you can lay down a symbol or use CC to punish the thief for coming so close to you. If/when they do land the CnD, remember that CnD only has a very short stealth on it; thieves are going to be looking to get the BS asap. Simply AoE, pull- whatever. The GS is great for this; #2 and #5 are particularly great moves for them. You also want to spam 1 as much as possible while the thief is stealthed, and constantly be changing directions. A good combo would be to lay down SoR on GS and start spamming 1 within that circle, punishing thieves for coming close to you, and, if they do land the hit, at least you’ll do some counter damage.

Also, what classifies a build as being “near bunker”? For example, I’m a thief that runs- almost exclusively- “bunker” builds, but in the thief world, that doesn’t necessarily mean x/x/30/30/x. It just means “substantially more survivability” than other builds. Even then, though, my thief, due to his aggressive, controlling “chop ’em up” nature still has somewhat average survivability, when comparing to other classes. Anyhow, the point is- what makes a “near bunker guard”?

I main a warrior and I don’t think thieves are that OP since the culling fix and 4s reveal fix. Sure they are just as annoying as ever and I still despise them all but if they don’t run in and out of combat they die. Some things still need to be tweaked but overall they are not that big a deal anymore. I’ve downed many thieves while they were in stealth with a well time/place AoE from my hammer just to have them reappear on their kitten ready for me to finish them.