Guild Wars 2

(yeah I know, I was done here). While I usually disprove of “not playing to win” I would humbly suggest that any server that ends up in the T1 #3 hotseat considers going full EotM in protest until JQ and BG destack.
There is no point in building a “warchest” and trying to compete with their walls of text of QQ’ing, sandbagging, and birddogging.
I think the majority of TC and SoS want no part of their crap, and it appears that SoR is no longer in the hunt to stay there. So why play into it?

You people complaining about how JQ and BG need to destack have it wrong.

You are the ones with the problem so you should pay to transfer to a server and stack the other servers.

Actually DB just need 1 NA guild with both size+skill. Just 1 is enough.
Currently none of DB’s WvW guilds can put a reliable number in a daily basis. Maybe only 1 guild can put a 20+ number team on reset night. Most of DB guilds can only form a ~10 men team then combined with pugs and do some havoc job. This may work on T4 and below but can hardly compete with T3 especially Mag’s experienced team with both skill and number.
DB do have some quality pugs due to its drop-and-rise-then-drop-then-rise history. Sometimes pugs group alone can wipe well-organized teams even with equal number. However, pug is still pug, they are highly affected by momentum, if they get wiped a few times in a roll they will just find all kinds of excuses to quit/change map or go PVE. Pugs always want to fight when they feel you can win. DB has a huge population, when DB has advantage, 4 maps can be qued, but once DB get destroyed a few times, all 4 maps can be out-maned, this can happen in just a couple of hours.
So what DB really need now is just a skillful NA guild which can put a reliable number in daily basis who can compete other T3 servers, then you will see the power of fare weather army.

Chris.3290:

(yeah I know, I was done here). While I usually disprove of “not playing to win” I would humbly suggest that any server that ends up in the T1 #3 hotseat considers going full EotM in protest until JQ and BG destack.
There is no point in building a “warchest” and trying to compete with their walls of text of QQ’ing, sandbagging, and birddogging.
I think the majority of TC and SoS want no part of their crap, and it appears that SoR is no longer in the hunt to stay there. So why play into it?

Tell me something Chris,

Where were you in saying this sort of thing, when SOS was the top dog and other servers were calling for SOS to de-stack????

Oh that’s right you didn’t say a thing about it

Also folks I don’t know what your all worried about, ESO is out shortly

I would love to write the wall of text explaining why that didn’t happen and how wrong you are; but I don’t have to do that because I’m not in Tier 1 trying to justify my server’s bullshrimp.

I just want to ask you guys do you think it is actually possible to have balance between Tier 1 to tier 3 servers for the long run? One problem I see that make T1 servers unique coverage wise compared to T2 etc is that SEA/EU players tend to only converge to 3-4 servers to get other players to play with. Unless this problem is addressed, it’s hard to imagine achieving balance between T1 and T2 in the long run.

I remember there was a brief time when we did get a semi-balanced T1 and T2 between SOS/JQ/SBI?BG/SOR/IOJ, but it did not last long as eventually off-coverage players just moved to pretty much 3 servers. Now we have less off-coverage players around compared to that time, it is probably even less likely to get them to spread out.

Reslinal.2359:

I just want to ask you guys do you think it is actually possible to have balanced Tier 1 to tier 3 servers for the long run? One problem I see that make T1 servers unique coverage wise compared to T2 etc is that SEA/EU players tend to only converge to 1-3 servers to get other players to play with. Unless this problem is addressed, it’s hard to imagine achieving balance between T1 and T2 in the long run.

I remember there was a brief time when we did get a semi-balanced T1 and T2 between SOS/JQ/SBI?BG/SOR/IOJ, but it did not last long as eventually off-coverage players just moved to pretty much 3 servers. Now we have less off-coverage players around compared to that time, it is probably even less likely to get them to spread out.

T1 was pretty balanced the few weeks before season one of leagues.

Mirsa.1628:

Reslinal.2359:

I just want to ask you guys do you think it is actually possible to have balanced Tier 1 to tier 3 servers for the long run? One problem I see that make T1 servers unique coverage wise compared to T2 etc is that SEA/EU players tend to only converge to 1-3 servers to get other players to play with. Unless this problem is addressed, it’s hard to imagine achieving balance between T1 and T2 in the long run.

I remember there was a brief time when we did get a semi-balanced T1 and T2 between SOS/JQ/SBI?BG/SOR/IOJ, but it did not last long as eventually off-coverage players just moved to pretty much 3 servers. Now we have less off-coverage players around compared to that time, it is probably even less likely to get them to spread out.

T1 was pretty balanced the few weeks before season one of leagues.

I was more talking about balance across tiers like T1 and T2 or even T3, not within tier itself. I did enjoy T1 before season one and wish SoR did not suffer the server drama that completely ruined your competitiveness. Now T1 is only balanced between BG and JQ and we will see if any other T2 servers will eventually rise to replace SoR.

The top 3 tiers are alot more balanced in EU. I think the key reason this can’t be achieved in NA is because Oceanics and Sea guilds opt to play on NA servers because of better pings. That said, in all honesty if EU is a representation of “balanced top 3 tiers” than I don’t want balance. There are a few things I just did not like about gameplay in EU that I think were a biproduct of the balance. The only big plus EU has is that there are many more decent and better guilds that play there.

So essentially, the only way I see to “balance NA” is to provide Oceanic/Sea servers and get those players playing in that region however they can rather then have them opting to play in NA regardless.

nirvana.8245:

The top 3 tiers are alot more balanced in EU. I think the key reason this can’t be achieved in NA is because Oceanics and Sea guilds opt to play on NA servers because of better pings. That said, in all honesty if EU is a representation of “balanced top 3 tiers” than I don’t want balance. There are a few things I just did not like about gameplay in EU that I think were a biproduct of the balance. The only big plus EU has is that there are many more decent and better guilds that play there.

So essentially, the only way I see to “balance NA” is to provide Oceanic/Sea servers and get those players playing in that region however they can rather then have them opting to play in NA regardless.

Interesting, can you elaborate a bit on what byproduct things about gameplay in EU due to balance that you don’t like?

It’s not about stacking or de-stacking, blah blah blah…

It’s about proper WvW community and guild management/organisation.

BlackGate has it and it’s the best there is because of the work and dedication so many people put into it.

JQ has it but it’s toxic at times and hence why they’re rarely winning any more, the loss of Waha was pretty big to that community organisation, whether they admit it or not.
Getting rid of the racism and abuse on your TS for a start would help, especially toward some Asian and EU guilds/players who aren’t in your clique.

SoR had a proper, nice and organised community once, a long time ago, but it was ruined by elitism and fights over to PPT or not to PPT.

ANY server in ANY tier can get to the top and stay there but it requires a community be built up, organised, friendly, welcoming to all and dedicated – not “kitten kitten playing for fights because we’re bad” type people wrecking your community – like they did to SoR.

BG is full but many WvW players would tell you there’s many a time when there’s barely anyone showing up for WvW but nobody outside of the server would believe them because they see “full server” and think that applies to WvW also, which is far far far from being true. The server is full because of it’s great and welcoming to all community, both in and out of WvW.
If you’re going to put BG down all the time, at least admit you’re doing so because their dedicated and friendly community spirit is better than yours, haters gonna hate.

It seems to be pretty normal for a lot of servers in EU to have similar communities like in BG, but seems to be a fairly rare thing in NA.
Probably why a lot of solo EU players like BG so much and find it easy to fit in there – TC would be the only other NA server that is openly welcoming and friendly as much as BG are, and are building up that community spirit and dedicated organisation pretty well too.

SoS seem like a nice bunch of people too with a very decent community.

Can easily see 6 months from now that TC and SoS take over T1 with BG, coverage will be an issue but if SoS and TC continue with building their friendly and welcoming communities, people will come to your server much more easily, stay there and make it their home.

As an EU player, I’d happily move to BG, TC or SoS, I wouldn’t even consider other T1-3 servers in NA if I wanted to play at a top level and be happy in their community. Only you can fix that, not Anet.

I agree with community being the foundation of your server. Thanks for that oxo.

I think the emphasis on community is a little too strong. Negative communities drive away existing guilds and might not attract new ones (Maguuma’s problem), positive ones are just a check box on a guild’s decision to move.

The number one decision, I’ve found, is rivalries.

When HoD and ET imploded, did they go to the other T1 servers and contenders?
No, they went to BG and SoS that were stacking up guilds at the time.

When SBI went down, most went to JQ over SoS because SoS ruined their moment of triumph (they were poised for a run of First places).

When SoS went down, no guild went to JQ. The first wave all went to BG and the second wave went to SoR.

DB, FA, and TC guilds that have moved or have considered moving; not a single one has gone to another, due to the intense T2 rivalry in the pre-season.

Ehmry Bay folks, were fed up with their situation. Did they go to their long time rival, BP or to their SEA drive adversary DB? No, they went to SoS; who they hadn’t seen in over 6 months.

SoR folks are going to JQ, and I bet 99% of their motivation is to knock down BG. The community probably wasn’t even on their checklist.

Reslinal.2359:

nirvana.8245:

The top 3 tiers are alot more balanced in EU. I think the key reason this can’t be achieved in NA is because Oceanics and Sea guilds opt to play on NA servers because of better pings. That said, in all honesty if EU is a representation of “balanced top 3 tiers” than I don’t want balance. There are a few things I just did not like about gameplay in EU that I think were a biproduct of the balance. The only big plus EU has is that there are many more decent and better guilds that play there.

So essentially, the only way I see to “balance NA” is to provide Oceanic/Sea servers and get those players playing in that region however they can rather then have them opting to play in NA regardless.

Interesting, can you elaborate a bit on what byproduct things about gameplay in EU due to balance that you don’t like?

In order to fill the huge coverage gap during in Oceanic and early Sea (and I guess late NA as well) float commanders were running a single pug group (float team) that would cover 4 maps. PPT lead was gained by who could PvDoor the quickest. Fights over objectives were alot less rare than Oceanic NA. Paper keeps were alot more common, because there wasn’t enough players to scout and run a reasonable size force. It was just more efficient to cap it, grab supply and move along. WvW was not a PvP area in primetime Oceanic, but rather a forced karma train.

I don’t know if that makes it clear? For some that might sound like a good thing. But for me its quite bad. I like fights and attacking and defending upgraded defences. Not face rubbing doors. But nothing is upgraded all that often because coverage gaps pretty much means its going to get flipped overnight…several times :p

I agree with Chris I think community is a necessary but not sufficient condition for a successful server. A toxic community or a community with big divide usually will not be attractive to guilds, but a good community alone will not be sufficient either. Luck and timing plays an important role as well.

Interesting observation nirvana, I am wondering is the same thing happen in lower tier NA as well? Off-prime hours just a forced karma train?

Reslinal.2359:

I agree with Chris I think community is a necessary but not sufficient condition for a successful server. A toxic community or a community with big divide usually will not be attractive to guilds, but a good community alone will not be sufficient either. Luck and timing plays an important role as well.

Interesting observation nirvana, I am wondering is the same thing happen in lower tier NA as well? Off-prime hours just a forced karma train?

The forced karma train only happens if none of the combatants have a even a token night crew. During down-rolled matches (pre season when RNG was higher) SoS would often fail to get as much mileage during our strong times if we karma-trained too much (a group of 8 could backcap us faster than our 30+ could gain train.) We quickly had to get used to spreading out to maximize at the time; but that’s only when we needed to gain PPT badly.

These days with our more comfortable position (but still trying to beat TC) we keep things a little more light-hearted but try not to forget lessons learned.

If friendly and welcoming communities equaled succes, Tarnished Coast and Isle of Janthir would be the top dogs for months now. It is great to have ofc, but it has it downsides.

It brings lots of carebears and fairweathers, nice guys but lack of skill, and so on.

There are multiple factors that make a server succesful. From having lots of hardcore server loyalist, gaining loyal/huge/skilled/friendly WvW guilds, general attitude, and soooo much more. You guys (Blackgate) even have an attractive name for new players, even your server name matters. Take a look at Fergusson’s Crossing.

Chris.3290:

I think the emphasis on community is a little too strong. Negative communities drive away existing guilds and might not attract new ones (Maguuma’s problem), positive ones are just a check box on a guild’s decision to move.

The number one decision, I’ve found, is rivalries.

When SBI went down, most went to JQ over SoS because SoS ruined their moment of triumph (they were poised for a run of First places).

If you’re talking about decision to move for WvW I will agree. Having a good community is just a plus point. Who you get to fight is the main reason along with who fights alongside you are usually the deciding factors.

However I think Oxo was saying in long term what keeps a server alive is a good server community. I believe WvW communities are fragile at best. It can change and go south quite quickly. Server communities on the other hand remain and are the bed rock of your server.

Nice assumption about SBI Exodus Chris but here’s the facts. I hate myself for repeating this so many times but I just had to set it straight.

WvW guilds on SBI around the time of free transfers ending decided to try help balance WvW. Very much like what his thread is trying to discuss.

So with JQ having the strongest SEA at the time, SBI’s NA moved there to complement it. SoR having the strongest NA at the time, SBI’s SEA went there. We tried create a balance way back then. Our finest came out and helped SoR’s (Fannwong) and JQ’s (Jedbacca) communities respectively.

Natronix.9827:

You guys (Blackgate) even have an attractive name for new players, even your server name matters. Take a look at Fergusson’s Crossing.

Haha I’d have to agree with that! DRAGONbrand.. Asians. CRYSTALdesert. Sounds appealing to a Singaporean like me. (not to mention one of our huge SG tech community sites choosing it playing a huge role in that.)

And Aussies love the beach so SEA of Sorrows.

juicifruitz.6251:

Chris.3290:

(yeah I know, I was done here). While I usually disprove of “not playing to win” I would humbly suggest that any server that ends up in the T1 #3 hotseat considers going full EotM in protest until JQ and BG destack.
There is no point in building a “warchest” and trying to compete with their walls of text of QQ’ing, sandbagging, and birddogging.
I think the majority of TC and SoS want no part of their crap, and it appears that SoR is no longer in the hunt to stay there. So why play into it?

Tell me something Chris,

Where were you in saying this sort of thing, when SOS was the top dog and other servers were calling for SOS to de-stack????

Oh that’s right you didn’t say a thing about it

Because T1 in those days were nothing like T1 BG/JQ now. You didn’t know that?

BG and JQ (of current) have 20x the amount of players SOS (and JQ) did in our brief few weeks at #1. Ps no one called for a de-stack (because it was never anywhere near as bad as you buyers are), and also, free transfers.

Now you know the reality.

Looks like SBI is gonna die. Dem bandwagon servers just can’t take pressure from natural servers. And then SoR is intentionally tanking, so either SoS or TC is going to head into T1. It’s looking like TC at the moment. We’ll probably flip-flop with SoR unless we get some more coverage. It’ll be interesting to see how things go.

thaooo.5320:

BG and JQ (of current) have 20x the amount of players SOS (and JQ) did in our brief few weeks at #1.

No they don;t not at the moment, during leagues maybe but not now. And yes I was on SOS.

If you are going to play the PPT game, you need to stack otherwise the other server will be able to out cover you.

There are not enough people for all time zones to cover all servers and still have someone for those people to play with and against. It will only be a few servers that can attain 24h coverage and the rest are out of luck. The whole idea is to get just enough people to queue all maps for a very short bit, about 15 to 30 minutes. If you don’t have that queue, all you will still get is arguments about how the other server out manned you bla bla bla usual rhetoric.

If your server doesn’t play PPT then it doesn’t matter if you have coverage unless you want to stay in a particular tier to fight particular guilds.

And what the hell is going on with FA? Tanking again?

looks like things have only gotten worse since this thread was made lol.

Nick.6972:

And what the hell is going on with FA? Tanking again?

not intentionally, a lot of people are losing interest in the game altogether. At least 1/3 or maybe even as much as 1/2 of our premier (nightly 15-20+ man rallies) wvw guilds have gone MIA. EotM and new pve content drove all our fairweathers and pugs away. Its not like we got together one night and said “you know what, kitten farming TC blobs, lets go to t3 and tick 350+ at all hours of the day”

outside of pve game is ded

LetoII.3782:

Terravos.4059:

I hate to be a stick in the mud, But you’re never going to balance the servers to be even like this…Having a Ranking system in a gameplay mode with uneven numbers is always going to lead to higher population servers generally being higher rank..Esp in games where Numbers are often given the largest advantage with little cons to having them.

Someone did state though what will probably happen in the future, I posted it 3 month’s ago… They’re gearing up to combine servers into “teams” for matchups to try and solve some of the issues you guys are talking about, This is why Edge of the Mists had to be made…Not the whole China Excuse.

They’re going to Merge the servers for WvW purposes, Why this isn’t evident to everyone i don’t know.

As in 1 eb for the entire game? Surely you jest.
I think it isn’t evident because it’s improbable. People pay gems to transfer, that’s much more valuable to Anet and NCsoft than a few people whining about scores.

I think if anything they might reduce map populations to the point they don’t have server lag.. Which would also help stacking issues.

What Terravos is talking about would be something like this:

1) The WvW maps are just (Color) Borderlands, EB and OS, which will spawn overflows like EotM does now.
2) Servers are assigned colors on a rotating basis each week (to allow Map Completion to still be viable).

No need for Glicko or ranking anymore. Just have all the servers on that ‘color’ which win, earn the expected number of bonus chests.

There are still plenty of ways for the devs to ‘create’ gem payments in this format, they just need to be harsher about transfer costs/availability (I have some ideas there, but not interested in giving the Devs those).

This also causes issues with GvG matchups, which I consider a major problem (despite not being interested in it). Perhaps add the Guild Halls thing that I hear just about everyone talking about? From what I’ve heard of it (the GW1 variant), would make a great 4th game mode…

thaooo.5320:

juicifruitz.6251:

Chris.3290:

(yeah I know, I was done here). While I usually disprove of “not playing to win” I would humbly suggest that any server that ends up in the T1 #3 hotseat considers going full EotM in protest until JQ and BG destack.
There is no point in building a “warchest” and trying to compete with their walls of text of QQ’ing, sandbagging, and birddogging.
I think the majority of TC and SoS want no part of their crap, and it appears that SoR is no longer in the hunt to stay there. So why play into it?

Tell me something Chris,

Where were you in saying this sort of thing, when SOS was the top dog and other servers were calling for SOS to de-stack????

Oh that’s right you didn’t say a thing about it

Because T1 in those days were nothing like T1 BG/JQ now. You didn’t know that?

BG and JQ (of current) have 20x the amount of players SOS (and JQ) did in our brief few weeks at #1. Ps no one called for a de-stack (because it was never anywhere near as bad as you buyers are), and also, free transfers.

Now you know the reality.

SoS and JQ had very similar numbers to what BG and now JQ have. In fact, I would have to say JQ in those days had more numbers than what BG/JQ currently have. I played on SoS in those days, so yes, I know what I am talking about. Do you currently play in kitten know the size of our wvw population currently?

I love how T1 – T3 has become even more imbalanced since this thread was made.

Seigfried.5938:

thaooo.5320:

juicifruitz.6251:

Chris.3290:

(yeah I know, I was done here). While I usually disprove of “not playing to win” I would humbly suggest that any server that ends up in the T1 #3 hotseat considers going full EotM in protest until JQ and BG destack.
There is no point in building a “warchest” and trying to compete with their walls of text of QQ’ing, sandbagging, and birddogging.
I think the majority of TC and SoS want no part of their crap, and it appears that SoR is no longer in the hunt to stay there. So why play into it?

Tell me something Chris,

Where were you in saying this sort of thing, when SOS was the top dog and other servers were calling for SOS to de-stack????

Oh that’s right you didn’t say a thing about it

Because T1 in those days were nothing like T1 BG/JQ now. You didn’t know that?

BG and JQ (of current) have 20x the amount of players SOS (and JQ) did in our brief few weeks at #1. Ps no one called for a de-stack (because it was never anywhere near as bad as you buyers are), and also, free transfers.

Now you know the reality.

SoS and JQ had very similar numbers to what BG and now JQ have. In fact, I would have to say JQ in those days had more numbers than what BG/JQ currently have. I played on SoS in those days, so yes, I know what I am talking about. Do you currently play in kitten know the size of our wvw population currently?

we need moar of your PPTears pls