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Posted by: SkyShroud.2865

SkyShroud.2865

How does the multipliers affect servers in which ‘prime time’ for that server hosts the least amount of players during such time?

Specifically, we already know not all servers are stacked equal, so what may be considered a ‘busy’ time vs . ‘prime time’ does not feel equal in that regard.

From my personal perspective, this does seem to alienate anyone wanting to play WvW during non-prime hours and forces them to either a) play in the middle of the night during their time completely changing their life schedule for a game because they live in Europe or from elsewhere, or b) Forces them off to migrate to another server so they can be the most effective during the times that they desire to play at.

Also, what I didn’t see explained, if the score multiplier for skirmishes is determined by such busy times, what if the opposing force doesn’t have any players that wish to engage in that time? More specifically, how does that affect scoring on highly populated servers against servers with low turnouts during said prime times?

Just a curious cat here trying to find the scraps

Good point about servers stacked differently.

Founder & Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International Guild
Henge of Denravi Server
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Posted by: Chaba.5410

Chaba.5410

I guess I’m not understanding how “off-hours coverage will still matter” is a slight to ocx/sea/eu. The proposed scoring changes still give advantage to coverage.

The social pressure a lot of ocx/sea/eu players felt from their server communities to PPT will be reduced.

Chaba Tangnu
Founding member of [NERF] Fort Engineer and driver for [TLC] The Legion of Charrs
RIP [SIC] Strident Iconoclast

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Posted by: insanemaniac.2456

insanemaniac.2456

please calculate prime time automatically and dynamically

the controversial change sounds good to me

JQ: Rikkity
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Posted by: bbhlarithrial.4982

bbhlarithrial.4982

Most of this sounds good. The ‘prime time’ thing could definitely be problematic for servers that are already outnumbered most of a given time block. It would be really nice if there were a way to open/close server transfers based on active wvw participation and not overall server population. Other than that the only thing I disagree with is people pretending like they transferred around ‘just because’. o.O

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Posted by: Straegen.2938

Straegen.2938

You should also look into finding a way to have the 3-server-matchup system auto-balance itself.
In all these years, the 2 lesser servers never team up vs the winning one.

I have long believed that the server v server system is simply to unwieldy to balance. They need several smaller factions that get constantly readjusted to keep the fights fresh and the fights relatively balanced. I suggest using a player/guild friend/enemy list and rebalance the matches continually.

I also think they should simply ditch the PPT system altogether. Creating player and guild reward tracks that progress across multiple objectives (kills, captures, defenses, escorts, etc) would resolve most of the scoring woes. These reward tracks could be used to generate a scoreboard across a match showing which players/guilds are “winning” in the various tracks. All players/guilds will get rewards as they progress through the tracks with winners getting bonuses at the end of the week.

In that system a single “side” could not dominate in every aspect. A less populated server could have guilds/players winning in a variety of categories such as best KDR, total kills, most captures, etc. Players would be encouraged to actually engage with other players rather than PvD.

Sarcasm For Hire [SFH]
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Posted by: Chaba.5410

Chaba.5410

How does the multipliers affect servers in which ‘prime time’ for that server hosts the least amount of players during such time?

I think what you are referring to is servers where their main strength is a non-NA timezone rather than simply a server that has the smaller NA in a match.

That would be my concern as well.

Chaba Tangnu
Founding member of [NERF] Fort Engineer and driver for [TLC] The Legion of Charrs
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Posted by: Hecatonchir.9326

Hecatonchir.9326

In my personal opinion scoring should be based on proportional wvw population during each tick. If each team has, say a minimum of ~30% of the total wvw population then each tick should be full, if one server has 50% and the other two have 25%, ticks should not be as high, as the one server has a clear advantage over the other two, and continue decreasing to say one server having =<90% of the wvw population during the tick.

This does a few things: it does not reward stacking a time zone where your opposing servers have no coverage because you will not be equally rewarded for that time zone as you would be if coverage was roughly even on all servers. It encourages splitting up stacked time zones and distributing evenly amongst their tier, because at that point they will be fully rewarded for their efforts.

The issue with night capping isn’t that it’s “off prime time hours” or even that it’s rewarding stacking a time zone, the issue is that it rewards exploiting unbalanced population levels. If all 3 servers have a total of 15 people in wvw each, they all have an equal chance to attack and defend objectives, and thus should be rewarded as well as during prime time, because there is no imbalance. If one server has 40 people in wvw and the other two servers have a combined 5 people, the stacked server should NOT be rewarded because they don’t have to put any effort into attacking or defending. It’s not about total population, it’s about population balance.

In my opinion the “controversial” proposal is obscene, because you are directly telling players that their contributions don’t matter if they don’t have full map blobs. Basing scoring off of proportional population levels keeps those players relevant AS LONG AS THEY ARE ON AN EVEN PLAYING FIELD WITH THEIR OPPONENTS.

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Posted by: Sich.7103

Sich.7103

Off peak time WILL matter ! But less…
I think this is one thing they have to :
– make a poll
– try for at least 1 month and then another poll.

Thing such like this have to be tested in real MU to see how it work.
You can’t imagine everything on the paper, you have to test.

I’m ok with Anet testing stuff and remove them if it’s fail. As long as they don’t make thing and are not able to go back (like stupid guild upgrade).

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Posted by: Chaba.5410

Chaba.5410

I also wonder about the two hour limit for Skirmishes considering that a long-siege can take about three hours or more to execute. I’d like to know what the reasoning behind two hours is. It seems like it might be fine though. If they were three hours in length and corresponded with the timezone slices that us players use, imagine everyone logging off after the end of a Skirmish.

Chaba Tangnu
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RIP [SIC] Strident Iconoclast

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Posted by: Heimlich.3065

Heimlich.3065

Reduced the Score Tick Timer from 15 minutes to 5 minutes

  • This will guarantee that every objective is grants at least one score pulse before it can be flipped by another team.
  • Objective Score will be reduce by 1/3rd since they’d be ticking 3x as often. This keeps the relative score from all sources the same.
  • Reward Track points will also be ticking 3x as often, and likewise be decreased by 1/3rd.

Points for Kill

  • The amount of score earned from PPK will be increased, so that it contributes more to the overall score.
  • As a rough number, PPK may increase to 3-5 points, rather than 1, with diminishing returns on killing players who have been alive for less than 5 minutes.
  • Warscore for Caravan Kills, Caravan Delivery and Sentry Capture should increase by at a similar rate as PPK.

Tyler, the bolded sections above seem to contradict each other.

Is the intent to keep the current contribution of PPT similar to its current level (which seems to be about 50% of current warscore) or is it to increase the relative contribution of PPK, Caravan Kills, Caravan Delivery, and Sentry Capture?

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Posted by: Sich.7103

Sich.7103

all source mean all the ppt source probably…

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Posted by: SkyShroud.2865

SkyShroud.2865

In my personal opinion scoring should be based on proportional wvw population during each tick. If each team has, say a minimum of ~30% of the total wvw population then each tick should be full, if one server has 50% and the other two have 25%, ticks should not be as high, as the one server has a clear advantage over the other two, and continue decreasing to say one server having =<90% of the wvw population during the tick.

This does a few things: it does not reward stacking a time zone where your opposing servers have no coverage because you will not be equally rewarded for that time zone as you would be if coverage was roughly even on all servers. It encourages splitting up stacked time zones and distributing evenly amongst their tier, because at that point they will be fully rewarded for their efforts.

The issue with night capping isn’t that it’s “off prime time hours” or even that it’s rewarding stacking a time zone, the issue is that it rewards exploiting unbalanced population levels. If all 3 servers have a total of 15 people in wvw each, they all have an equal chance to attack and defend objectives, and thus should be rewarded as well as during prime time, because there is no imbalance. If one server has 40 people in wvw and the other two servers have a combined 5 people, the stacked server should NOT be rewarded because they don’t have to put any effort into attacking or defending. It’s not about total population, it’s about population balance.

In my opinion the “controversial” proposal is obscene, because you are directly telling players that their contributions don’t matter if they don’t have full map blobs. Basing scoring off of proportional population levels keeps those players relevant AS LONG AS THEY ARE ON AN EVEN PLAYING FIELD WITH THEIR OPPONENTS.

I disagree. The 40-men people should be rewarded fully, likewise the 15 by all sides should be rewarded fully. Why? It is way better to push that 40-men server to a higher tier where they can find a similiar population than punishing them by keeping them there.

I always thought that the main issue of off-hours capping is because of a minor population ninja-ing everything and not because of huge population ktraining it.

Founder & Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International Guild
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Posted by: Nabrok.9023

Nabrok.9023

For the most part I like it, I’m not a fan of the population based multiplier potential system though.

The proposed changes without that should lessen the run-away effect, but honestly if you don’t have the population to compete you really should end up losing the match anyway. With the new system you have a better chance to compensate in other time periods, but weighting is just going to skew results, keep mismatches together for longer, and potentially create hostile environments where people are being told to get off the map.

I’m also not a fan of “Last Stand”. Why should one day be more important than any other? Similar things have been tried in certain sports such as formula one, and it failed there too.

You do want to encourage people to play week-long but don’t do this through score, do it through rewards. You win a skirmish (2 hour time window), you get a reward.

“I’m not a PvE, WvW, or PvP player – I am a Guild Wars 2 player”
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Posted by: Liston.9708

Liston.9708

I hate the nightcap myself, but old SOS (maybe current as well) and JQ seem screwed in that my nightcap is indeed their prime. they seem to have little to no NA prime to go with the very significant (stacked) “off hour” pop.

scoring would maybe fix itself with better linking / matching that takes into consideration when servers play. Right now JQ and YB look pretty even in score so may get matched together quite often – too bad a significant (majority?) of players on both servers play at different times. I don’t know how that will ever be “fixed” even with a scoring change…..

YB→YB→YB→YB→YB→YB→YB→most likely YB

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Posted by: TheGrimm.5624

TheGrimm.5624

Just as a reference, this is close to a previous discussion a year ago so this might be of interest to the topic.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Scoring-Discussion/first

GW/PoTBS/WAR/Rift/WAR/GW2/CU

De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.

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Posted by: Chaba.5410

Chaba.5410

Basing scoring off of proportional population levels keeps those players relevant AS LONG AS THEY ARE ON AN EVEN PLAYING FIELD WITH THEIR OPPONENTS.

I wonder what the reasoning behind the prime time activity level idea came from. I don’t want to dig into the old CDI thread. :/

It looks like an attempt to prevent players from getting aggro with servermates to log off because our population levels are too high. How can we have proportional scoring without that aggro?

Chaba Tangnu
Founding member of [NERF] Fort Engineer and driver for [TLC] The Legion of Charrs
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Posted by: Bandini.6185

Bandini.6185

Hey Tyler, good to see you a lot here these days

A lot of interesting changes but what bothers me is :

  • We’ll split the week long matches into 2 hour time slices we are calling ‘Skirmishes’
  • Warscore is used to determine the winner of a Skirmish
  • Skirmishes award varying amounts of Victory Points based on placement
  • Victory Points are used to determine Match victor
  • When a Skirmish ends, Warscore is reset, but actual map-state remains unchanged

It means that, if half an hour before the end of a skirmish, you see you won’t be able to win or even be second, there’s no point in playing, because your action won’t help your server.

Even worse, you could gain more points if you delay any capture until the next skirmish, as it could help you to win the next skirmish, whereas if you capture it now, it won’t change the number of Victory Points earned.

Besides, in order to prevent excessive karmatrain, I think capturing a T0 objective should reward no points.

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Posted by: Sich.7103

Sich.7103

Besides, in order to prevent excessive karmatrain, I think capturing a T0 objective should reward no points.

Agree with that. Defense point but no capture point for T0.

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Posted by: Dream In A Dream.7213

Dream In A Dream.7213

Great News T!
TY for working on this.

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Posted by: Caliburn.1845

Caliburn.1845

I like the bulk of the changes. But the new scoring system needs to be transparent and easily understood. And most importantly not be able to be gamed.

Also I think making upgraded objectives tick for more PPT is a bad thing that will lead to more blowout matches.

There should be other ways to promote defending your structures.

Caliburn.1845, Monsters Inc.
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Posted by: Ulion.5476

Ulion.5476

So example of the ppt to skirmish change. 12 blocks per day, 7 days a week and using a 5,3,1 skirmish point system. Not taking into account activity level since I am not sure of that yet. Using http://mos.millenium.org/servers/view/38/381 Week 4/23 for each server and a lot of excel stuff.
PPT:
TC 357k
Mag 273k
DB 339k
Skrimish points not taking into account activity level using a 5,3,1 pt system:
TC 359pt
Mag 213pt
DB 337pt

Ele – Tarnished Coast
“Quoth the raven nevermore”
Platinum Scout: 300% MF

(edited by Ulion.5476)

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Posted by: TheGrimm.5624

TheGrimm.5624

Still favor the idea of the time slices since it doesn’t mean people’s efforts are wasted and allows people to micro “win” and know they aided their server without creating a landslide that can’t be recovered from.

The upgraded structures having more value is an important feature in this plan and is nice to see included. Its helps in creating values to defend.

Increased PPK is a good thing. There still might be some tie-ins to increasing that value if a side if outnumbered as well to encourage people to keep coming back, but it would need to be if a number is percentage higher than the bottom force versus just a 1 player difference.

As far as the action level. Assume it’s possible to run a few weeks with this on and off to see how the numbers were impacted or even off and calculated on the side? That said anyway to have both of these calculated while the existing scoring it in place to see how that would translated?

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Posted by: Subversion.2580

Subversion.2580

All of this sounds like a very clunky way of going about things.

Several of us have already suggested a rather sleek system in past threads:

1. You already have the tech for overflows.
2. When a map reaches the cap, people hit flow instead of queue.
3. Flow scores reflect the percentage of hostile population on map.
4. Adjust map cap based on a population median to encourage positive transfer.

It would

A) Automatically deal with “off hour” capping, since that is only an issue when the servers have incompatible populations. I have no quarrel with 10 players impacting score as much as 100 players as long as those players have 10 opponents to every 100 opponents seen in prime time. Maintaining 1:1 is what is important.

The problem with “night capping” is it’s propensity for hitting a 1:0 balance, where some servers have off-hour presence, while other servers have no presence there of note. Then, a week is decided per default and people will not play. The scoring system needs that kind of redundancy, not a discussion about whether specific hours or scales of combat should be inherently more valuable. When it is balanced it should valuable. Period.

B) Encourage positive transfer: Where people transfer for content rather than to win. It would encourage players on all servers to spread evenly.

C) It would affect all players the same. Players on generally overpopulated servers and players on servers with disproportionate timezone presence would be equally encouraged to find both similarily-sized opponents and greater impact on score (as they are now one and the same). I love that we have AU-TZ or east-russian TZ players, but they should be encouraged to spread even as everyone else because content is king, content requires opponents and my opponents play in my timezone, even if some populations are smaller.

That is a far superior system to the old gold-bronze league divides based on server populations. Have the system reflect timezone populations instead and immidiately respond to disparities, making things like morale-breaks or commander shifts less prone to cascade as well (while I can understand if some players may disagree with that).

D) Outside of what is automated/redundant: Give Anet a simple way to manage WvW balance relative total population – making the system less vulnurable to large influxes or drops in the playerbase. If a poke is needed it allows for a simple poke (manually adjust caps) and the system will adapt.

(edited by Subversion.2580)

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Posted by: BloodyNine.7504

BloodyNine.7504

Currently we can’t give out worthwhile rewards for winning, as most match-ups are already decided before they begin

As a newer WvW player. Attracted to the game mode by these changes. This is one thing I thought was missing. A definite REASON to win. There really isn’t any reason to really push it.

People just want the FIGHTS! Which I very much enjoy. But it would be cool for there to be a real good incentive for a server to WANT to win.

Along with that. I think that a cool down on rewards after a transfer would be needed. That would prevent people from server hopping to the winning side to get said rewards. It would also make people want to stay on their server, invest in its success.

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Posted by: Sirendor.1394

Sirendor.1394

Nice work! WvW hasn’t seen this amount of attention at any time. This is great to see, and all of the proposed changes look amazing too.

Gandara – Vabbi – Ring of Fire – Fissure of Woe – Vabbi
SPvP as Standalone All is Vain

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Posted by: RickardJames.8267

RickardJames.8267

Do it! Seems like good changes all-in-all.

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Posted by: Heimlich.3065

Heimlich.3065

all source mean all the ppt source probably…

That’s why I asked for clarification. That is a possible interpretation, but I would like to understand what proportion of warscore PPT would contribute in a typical match under this proposal. Currently, the ratio seems to be around 50%.

If PPK, Caravan, and Sentry sources increase significantly, then maybe PPT sources would only contribute 25%, if you add warscore for capture and defense, then PPT contribution may be only 18-20% of total score.

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Posted by: UmbraNoctis.1907

UmbraNoctis.1907

UI

  • Many of these new systems and changes will also necessitate updates to the UI, to display all this new information.

Please keep the UI clear and/or make some displayed informations customizable. The “Server ABZ has captured XYZ”-message popping up in the middle of the screen currently is already quite annoing, especially mid-combat. I definitely don’t want even more stuff blocking my view and distracting me from informations, that might be more important at a given moment.

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Posted by: Aezyr.5304

Aezyr.5304

….The upgraded structures having more value is an important feature in this plan and is nice to see included. Its helps in creating values to defend.

Increased PPK is a good thing. There still might be some tie-ins to increasing that value if a side if outnumbered as well to encourage people to keep coming back, but it would need to be if a number is percentage higher than the bottom force versus just a 1 player difference……

I’m just worried that those two changes could lead to bunkering in behind walls and ac’s.

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Posted by: Rasudido.6734

Rasudido.6734

All Good ideas, ill add my 2 cents:

1. Capturing t0 structures (no upgrades) should award NO POINTS otherwise you incentive mindless karma training by rewarding the constant flipping of undefended, vulnerable structures. *Flipping heavily reinforced structures of enemy servers should count more than holding the objective for tick should. *

2. Action Level has to be dynamic and not preset. There are servers who dont have NA Prime there are others who have that and more; there are cases where during the weekend there is a large presence but during the week this isn’t a thing. The Multiplier has to change actively with what is actually happening not with that someone believes it should be. The Multiplier also has to be server based and not globally set (based on enemy server activity compared to yours), if your heavily outnumbered server actually manages to win a skirmish you should be rewarded for your achievement not feel bad because the multiplier is 1 because someone determined its “off hours”.

3. Last Stand is a good idea in concept but probably will be terrible in execution. From the start it will negatively affect reset (since reset is no longer important in impact) and second it will benefit only the servers who can stack players during the last stand day (punishing those who cant). Further there are potential of abuse with the Action Level system: whats to keep an already winning server to log off so the multiplier is lowered assuring their victory through inaction. All of these have to be answered before this can be applied.

As and additional idea id like to propose that destroying enemy siege should award points to tick (similar to ppk) that way giving repercussion to servers who just like to siege hump all day. Change also benefits attackers who manage to break in heavly defended structures and break the 1001 arrowcarts, trebs and ballistas some people like to build inside keeps.

(edited by Rasudido.6734)

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Posted by: DeWolfe.2174

DeWolfe.2174

  • Reduce the need for 24 hour coverage by reducing the effects of off-hours capping (night capping)
    • It’s not okay that the time periods with the smallest number of active players have the largest impact on the score
    • Of course we don’t want to alienate players who play during these period, off-hours coverage will still matter, it just will no longer be the primary factor in determining which world wins any given matchup.

Too late…

In conjunction with population rebalancing,

I’m pretty much reading both of these as giving us absolutely no bleeping reason to care any more. Anet has now manipulated our teams, our matches, and gave out privileged information to a select few. Now you want to add inequality and bias to scoring??? Why on earth should anyone care to play the mode? Better to just go to EotM if we feel the urge to kill some players.

Anet hasn’t understood World building since the start.

[AwM] of Jade Quarry.

(edited by DeWolfe.2174)

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Posted by: zwolf.1695

zwolf.1695

Let’s give this a shot! I like the sound of it but the sound and the feel – way different. Put it into a beta and make that week not count toward glicko.

Xio the Watcher – DWD of Blackgate

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Posted by: Thelgar.7214

Thelgar.7214

Prime Time would be universal per datacenter. For example, all worlds in NA would have the same 6 hour period (of highest activity) as their Prime Time hours. All EU woulds would have a different 6 hour range for their Prime Time.

I may not be understanding this. So no matter how much of a numerical advantage one side has in these 6 hours it is max points, but another time segment where people are evenly matched and really earning their points would count for less?

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Posted by: Luvpie.8350

Luvpie.8350

Please reduce time needed to be kicked out of wvw for afkin to 5 mins MAX so people aren’t sitting at wps for long time calculated into ‘active’ population
&
any population calculations for ‘primetime’ should be redone now to match servers again to implement changes mentioned in this thread. NA primetime population has moved around alot in last month or two.

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Posted by: Luvpie.8350

Luvpie.8350

Prime Time would be universal per datacenter. For example, all worlds in NA would have the same 6 hour period (of highest activity) as their Prime Time hours. All EU woulds would have a different 6 hour range for their Prime Time.

I may not be understanding this. So no matter how much of a numerical advantage one side has in these 6 hours it is max points, but another time segment where people are evenly matched and really earning their points would count for less?

yes. people that play during primetime count as full person, but people that play outside of primetime count as 3/5th of person. that seems fair and won’t lead to any problems /s

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Posted by: DaVid Darksoul.4985

DaVid Darksoul.4985

I play mostly 12am-5am est with odd times outside that window. I do not support my value as a player decreases during that time frame vs NA prime. Also why not equqlize offense / defense scoring. Increase the successful defense window to 15 minutes, if it succeeds award the same amount of points as a capture.

WAR Platinum Necro, HoD BL roamer/defender. Solo Keep/Tower capper.

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Posted by: Tyler Bearce

Previous

Tyler Bearce

Game Designer

Next

It’s important that PPT continues to be the primary source of score. PPK just accounts for a very low percentage of score currently, and at the least we should be able to safely double the score from kills.

I specifically avoided going into too many specific numbers or formulas because it’s really easy for people to get hyper-focused on arguing the details of a proposal and lose sight of the bigger picture. For instance I didn’t say how many Victory Points a Skirmish would award. There’s probably 3 reasonable starting points: 3/2/1, 2/1/0 and 5/3/1. I’m leaning towards the first, but I can see pros and cons to any of them. However, regardless on which set we decide on, it’ll be an improvement on the existing match scoring system. Once we’ve built the system, tweaking things like the number of Victory Points awarded for Skirmish placement will be an easy thing to do.

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Posted by: Lord Rhett.9360

Lord Rhett.9360

How is Power of the Mists buff going to be calculated now? Right now it’s based on War Score, which is now going to be reset every two hours. Even after two hours, that’s not enough points to get any decent benefit from PotM.

My Little Dolyak: Supply is Magic

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Posted by: Luvpie.8350

Luvpie.8350

It’s important that PPT continues to be the primary source of score. PPK just accounts for a very low percentage of score currently, and at the least we should be able to safely double the score from kills.

I specifically avoided going into too many specific numbers or formulas because it’s really easy for people to get hyper-focused on arguing the details of a proposal and lose sight of the bigger picture. For instance I didn’t say how many Victory Points a Skirmish would award. There’s probably 3 reasonable starting points: 3/2/1, 2/1/0 and 5/3/1. I’m leaning towards the first, but I can see pros and cons to any of them. However, regardless on which set we decide on, it’ll be an improvement on the existing match scoring system. Once we’ve built the system, tweaking things like the number of Victory Points awarded for Skirmish placement will be an easy thing to do.

while specific numbers might be off limits can you address how you will calculate following:
server activity at certain time – if 3/4 maps are outmanned and one map has queue how are ppt calculated differently depending on map or average out?
server status – full etc – will you do measurements on primetime only and open up server so prime time can be balanced?
server matches – servers were matched with data but since that data was acquired guilds moved around, if you do change metrics will you adjust matchups between servers to keep population levels stable so people don’t game system by stacking NA pop

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Posted by: Josh XT.6053

Josh XT.6053

I think PPK should be just as important as PPT personally. I don’t play for point ticks as a roamer. Sure I take camps and towers when I can, but my primary focus is defeating my foes in WvW, the fights – not the objectives. Making PPK matter as much as PPT caters to everyone in WvW because then we all have an equal role in our world score.

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Posted by: BrickFurious.7169

BrickFurious.7169

This is a really great set of changes overall, way better than the scoring system we have currently.

I would add that, considering the change to time sliced scoring will already alleviate “nightcapping” considerably, I would wait on the controversial action level change until after the initial rollout of these scoring changes. It may not be necessary and it has the potential to cause new problems (unintended gaming behavior) no matter how well designed, so best to wait and see if it is actually needed.

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Posted by: Exciton.8942

Exciton.8942

I think PPK should be just as important as PPT personally. I don’t play for point ticks as a roamer. Sure I take camps and towers when I can, but my primary focus is defeating my foes in WvW, the fights – not the objectives. Making PPK matter as much as PPT caters to everyone in WvW because then we all have an equal role in our world score.

I don’t think it is a good idea to raise the importance of PPK.

Currently PPK matters little in total score. So ppl generally play freely and come out fight a lot. But if PPK’s importance gets raised to a level that matters, ppl who loses fight will now either hide in objectives or go back cap instead of engaging enemies.

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Posted by: Sekai.2987

Sekai.2987

i like the changes, after 3 years finaly something new and i always hated it that 20-30 ppl would generate more points over the night with a tick of 400-500 while on primetime there are 200 players online and the tick is only 220~ for just a few hours

hopefully with the changes these 30 ppl would finaly only generate the same amout of points at night with their 400-500 tick as the 200ppl at day with just 220 tick

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Posted by: insanemaniac.2456

insanemaniac.2456

It’s important that PPT continues to be the primary source of score. PPK just accounts for a very low percentage of score currently, and at the least we should be able to safely double the score from kills.

I specifically avoided going into too many specific numbers or formulas because it’s really easy for people to get hyper-focused on arguing the details of a proposal and lose sight of the bigger picture. For instance I didn’t say how many Victory Points a Skirmish would award. There’s probably 3 reasonable starting points: 3/2/1, 2/1/0 and 5/3/1. I’m leaning towards the first, but I can see pros and cons to any of them. However, regardless on which set we decide on, it’ll be an improvement on the existing match scoring system. Once we’ve built the system, tweaking things like the number of Victory Points awarded for Skirmish placement will be an easy thing to do.

perhaps consider 5/3/2. 5/3/1, 3/2/1, and 2/1/0 arent fundamentally different. they all have equal spacing.

i too am not so concerned with specifics. thats for you guys to do. you get to test out things because you have the test environment and the ability to change things. so im keeping this short.

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Posted by: Swanky McDanky.5214

Swanky McDanky.5214

While I’m all for incentivizing objective play, I think it needs to be done in ways that don’t just artificially inflate the numbers attached to the objectives themselves. It’s kind of a cop out to just make things tick for more and tick more often. This is especially true for the major fortifications such as Keeps, Garrisons, and the back and northern towers on EBG and the Alpine borders respectively. These fortifications are very critical to a servers strategies and mobility on a given map, and they will always have value as far as holding them is concerned. The servers that can’t hold these things will be at a severe disadvantage when paired against servers that dominate a particular timezone or matchup, because if an enemy server can suppress scoring through these fortifications, then you’ll see a buildup of snowballing scores.

The other way this turns out, is that the fights will be incredible. But for that to happen, the population balancing needs to come out of a ‘beta’ phase.
I’m concerned that a tick rotation this short will lead to runaway scenarios. With the “issue” of night-capping still being unresolved, servers that can hold a dominant presence over the two competitors in any time zone will create a much wider gap than they would now. If a server can tick 400+ for a few hours every day and still maintain a competitive ~33% of the total tick at all other times then that server would be untouchable.

To increase PPK would help if that server’s players were all keyboard turners pit against the top fight guilds this game has ever known, but servers that can tick like that are going to have massive populations that can just blob the fight groups down anyway. This then leads to morale issues, players getting bored, leaving, and more snowballing. This game mode is plagued with the volatility that is the human ego. The smallest changes can become massive problems if it leads to population imbalance (the core issue with scoring).

I can understand wanting to create a motivation to hold and, by extension, capture objectives. But I think the best way to go about doing this is to make the rewards more… well, rewarding. A negligible amount of karma and WXP for an objective capture is underwhelming. I can’t say myself where the sweet spot is as far as how much loot is “too much,” but even the reward tracks only ticking in accordance with the Score tick falls a little kitten

he fights that are held at these objectives are the exciting and memorable moments that everyone looks back on fondly. EBG is a good example of how an advancing force can apply pressure to a defender. Every camp and tower they take on an enemy’s territory can interact with and affect the keep. These towers are all important, and have a high priority in terms of maintaining a hold on them. In the new DBL, you see stale map states because towers are so isolated that capturing them does virtually nothing as far as a force’s map presence is concerned.
I think you would find more interest, and more satisfaction if these towers had more strategic value in terms of attacking the ultimate goal of an enemies garrison, and this would in turn add to the value of holding them for the home team. Ultimately leading to more fights, more bags, more happiness, and less Karma training.

In regards to objective trading with RI staying at 5 minutes while on a 5 minute tick rotation: Considering Event Rewards are a moot point, being solely a negligible amount of karma. the only considerations then are WXP and Champ Bags. The WXP at this point in the game is something that can be gained much faster in EoTM. And many people are at the point where they’re just tacking on world ranks with no where to spend their points. Champ Bags are a decent source of blues and greens, but they’re not an economy breaking thing considering it’s faster to do champion trains and Karma Training. Enough of these bags exist and can be farmed that shortening RI (even removing it entirely) will, and I say this with extreme confidence, NOT affect the game mode. The speed with which these things can be acquired else where turns the idea of objective trading into a moot point. To have objectives that can directly influence a force’s push toward their ultimate goal of Garrison or SMC is value enough for a server to defend them. To have things invulnerable to capture for an entire tick rotation will create a mentality of “Wait until RI is up so we can get it for the next tick.” People will wait around because this will be the most effective way of accruing points.
On top of this, the plans to increase the value of an objective based on its upgrade level will lead to an increase of objective defense further decreasing the sentiment and possibility of objective trading.

To keep up with the supposed increase in offensive behavior will you also increase the rate at which supply is generated? You’re putting an unnecessary rush on this game mode. If people need to attack something every 5 minutes, or optimally, probably every 2 and half, then the maps should be the size of a guild arena (exaggeration I know).
If points are calculated every 5 minutes, then people will be scrambling to get something done. Supply will need to be increased so that the increased amount of siege production can be sustained.

And you need to consider the economic ramifications! Siege is expensive and WvW produces next to no gold. This is a game mode where people are almost forced to spend real money in order to stay competitive with siege and food. I get that you guys are a business and view everything from a market standpoint but as soon as people realize this the backlash will be insane. This will induce panic and scare new players away from the game mode because it’s being carried out at such a furious pace.

It also needs to be pointed out the effect this will have on fighting. If a force is mounting an attacking, or hell, even if they’re just running to another objective on the other side of the huge freaking borderlands. These forces will be constantly redirected to defend. Or, every force will constantly patrol their third looking for an attack expecting one to come, and every map will be dead due to turtling and the fear of runaway scores on a freakishly fast tick rotation. If people are fighting and the third server decides to go for the quick ninja cap, then the force either chooses to run and port, wipe to the enemy for the faster respawn, or stay and fight and lose their objective. If RI and the Tick are not proportional to one another, then there is nothing healthy that can come of a shortened tick timer.

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Posted by: Silverstone.4539

Silverstone.4539

So long as personal rewards are the same all over, night capping or not, I don’t mind too much. but if prime time get more, or better rewards they “night cappers” (ocx/sea/eu players) I think you really need to rethink it some more.

Though like someone said, it might make ocx/sea/eu players play less in their time zones because they feel their time is worth less than “prime time”, so why play at that time?

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Posted by: Tyler Bearce

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This would be the end of Power of the Mists buff. Most players don’t really notice the buff. Nor do they play WvW specifically for the buff, so it hasn’t served as an effective motivator for winning matches. It also tends to reward PvE players more than WvW players. The upside to removing the buff, for WvW players, is that it should help our case for further improving WvW rewards, because it’d be lowering the rewards entering the game from elsewhere.

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Posted by: Vova.2640

Vova.2640

I don’t know about this…

Basically a server with weaker “primetime” coverage will never win since they will fall massively behind and will never be able to catch up since “off-hours” will barely reward anything when compared to “primetime” (and if enemies don’t show up at all = low multiplier = hardly any points earned).

This might kill wvw in off hours completely as well as seal the faith of any weak “primetime” server to always lose…

I can only hope I am wrong…

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Posted by: borgs.6103

borgs.6103

Just a couple of questions:
Where will you base a server’s “Prime Time”? Will it be location-based or will it be based on a server’s player activity?

If it’s based on location, wouldn’t that be kind of unfair?

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Posted by: Xillllix.3485

Xillllix.3485

Hey guys, as most of your are probably aware, Scoring Improvements won over QoL improvements in the last poll. So now it’s time to delve deeper into what that means…

Wow you guys are on the right track! Time slices Skirmish is something I proposed about 2 years ago, with the difference that I had 1 hour slices and daily scores.

I’m glad you guys are looking into making the WvW game interested for shorter time-span. Also the come-back mechanic, I proposed PPK multipliers for losing servers.

I may really reinstall the game now, it’s starting to look good.