Guild Wars 2

Yeah. I play all around the clock. But even on OCX/SEA servers, there are often just as many if not more NA players. They were only considered OCX/SEA servers because they have more OCX/SEA compared to other servers, not because their OCX/SEA outnumbered their NA.

Everything has to scale.

Particularly for PPK (and I’ve mentioned this every time its relevant), there’s already a system in place for scaling based on time. The Bonus Experience mechanic in pve is perfect for determining how much ppk you should get. Players that have been alive for less than a minimum time would award 0 ppk (to avoid spawn camping). All other players would gradually increase their ppk worth based on how long they had been alive.

Everything else mentioned needs a similar, and relevant, scaling mechanic. Capturing objectives was already mentioned to scale with upgrades, ppt also should dynamically scale with population, and possibly interact with Outnumbered. What these numbers should be, is not for me to decide. But, there should be an interaction.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

Prime Time would be universal per datacenter. For example, all worlds in NA would have the same 6 hour period (of highest activity) as their Prime Time hours. All EU woulds would have a different 6 hour range for their Prime Time.

Firstly, congratulations on being the best communicating developer the WvW forums has ever had. Your OP is exactly what everyone has been asking for in terms of communication. Arenanet, give this man a pay rise

Second, this prime time being a static 6 hour window consistent across data centres would NOT work for Jade Quarry.

Our prime time is always during the South East Asian time zone but we are on a North American data centre.

Prime time must be dynamic based on current map populations.

We were running two full map zergs last night during SEA prime which is more than I can say for what we would be running during NA prime.

How do you solve this problem below:

If JQ runs two map zergs in SEA time zone and TC and FA can only field one then SEA is JQ’s prime.

If TC and FA run two during NA time zone and JQ runs one then that is TC’s and FA’s prime.

We can end up with three servers with different “prime times”.

We can’t be giving preferential treatment to a server just because NA is their prime and NA is most common prime time. Many NA servers actually have prime times that are during the EU, SEA or OCX windows.

We can’t have JQ being penalised on scoring just because TC and FA can’t field two map zergs during OUR prime without also punishing TCs and FAs scoring when JQ can’t manage to field two zergs during THEIR prime.

Please allay my fears by telling me I’ve misunderstood how it will work

Luvpie.8350:

lil devils x.6071:

It should work like this:

• Increased PPK and LOOT for players fighting over objectives ( Yak camp, tower keep ect) without the use of siege.

• defending team gets slightly higher PPK and LOOT than attacking team. ( This ensures players come back to defend rather than just attacks and makes ownership of the objectives more valuable to players than they currently are now since their loot and score depend on owning them. This would block the K train)

• No PPK or LOOT for siege damage on players. Siege can still do more damage on players than their character, but they will have to forego their LOOT and PPK if they even think about touching that AC. This encourages players to learn their characters and fight with characters instead of siege, and make hard choices and discourages zerg siege humping encouraging fun fights instead.

• Remove passive scoring from the game and since the score would be determined only by players fighting over objectives, owning the objectives would be more valuable to players as well as the score being fair during all time zones since the scoring is based on PvP, not PvD it is treating all time zones and players equally, while also eliminating the invented nonsensical term “night capping” having any affect on the score. If there are no players to fight on the map, obviously they cannot run up the score.

Can we just get rid of PPT entirely from ticks? It will solve off hours etc.
Keep things simple and build on following:

PPK for 5 points per kill to start and fine tune & siege doesn’t count for kills
Points from successful defense will be 5-10 and will look at defenders/attackers ratio
Points from capping a undefended obj will be 0
Points from capping a defending obj will 5-10 and will look at defenders/attackers to determine ratio

That is exactly what I was suggesting by removing passive scoring, we really do not need the tick at all. Should be PPK active objective focused scoring, no ticks/ blocks/ nonsense. Just let the best fighters win. If they want players to care about the score they will stop with the crap trying to prop up and reward lazy game play and let the better fighters win. People can accept being beat by better fighters, they cannot accept the bad fighter winning due to hadicaps created by the game.

A few things:

- Activity times need to be calculated by map activity, NOT TIMEZONES. Otherwise servers that can only keep one map alive will still loose a lot of points on other maps by not being able to field a good number of players there. Examples of that are servers where EBG is full and well kept but bdls are empty and completely taken by enemies.

- It would be great to be able to see your own contribution to ppt/ppk on your UI

Looks good to me. Thanks for adding almost all of my suggestions from the old improve WvW thread.

Except you forgot to add gliding support to the new maps. Maybe in the works?

Cheers.

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

Tyler Bearce.3427:

Prime Time would be universal per datacenter. For example, all worlds in NA would have the same 6 hour period (of highest activity) as their Prime Time hours. All EU woulds would have a different 6 hour range for their Prime Time.

Firstly, congratulations on being the best communicating developer the WvW forums has ever had. Your OP is exactly what everyone has been asking for in terms of communication. Arenanet, give this man a pay rise

Second, this prime time being a static 6 hour window consistent across data centres would NOT work for Jade Quarry.

Our prime time is always during the South East Asian time zone but we are on a North American data centre.

Prime time must be dynamic based on current map populations.

We were running two full map zergs last night during SEA prime which is more than I can say for what we would be running during NA prime.

How do you solve this problem below:

If JQ runs two map zergs in SEA time zone and TC and FA can only field one then SEA is JQ’s prime.

If TC and FA run two during NA time zone and JQ runs one then that is TC’s and FA’s prime.

We can end up with three servers with different “prime times”.

We can’t be giving preferential treatment to a server just because NA is their prime and NA is most common prime time. Many NA servers actually have prime times that are during the EU, SEA or OCX windows.

We can’t have JQ being penalised on scoring just because TC and FA can’t field two map zergs during OUR prime without also punishing TCs and FAs scoring when JQ can’t manage to field two zergs during THEIR prime.

Please allay my fears by telling me I’ve misunderstood how it will work

I agree their proposed solution would not work for servers lacking NA coverage.

Of course though if they merged JQ with Maguuma, for example, they would have full coverage and both servers would not be as lopsided as they are rounding each other out.

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

Tyler Bearce.3427:

Prime Time would be universal per datacenter. For example, all worlds in NA would have the same 6 hour period (of highest activity) as their Prime Time hours. All EU woulds would have a different 6 hour range for their Prime Time.

Firstly, congratulations on being the best communicating developer the WvW forums has ever had. Your OP is exactly what everyone has been asking for in terms of communication. Arenanet, give this man a pay rise

Second, this prime time being a static 6 hour window consistent across data centres would NOT work for Jade Quarry.

Our prime time is always during the South East Asian time zone but we are on a North American data centre.

Prime time must be dynamic based on current map populations.

We were running two full map zergs last night during SEA prime which is more than I can say for what we would be running during NA prime.

How do you solve this problem below:

If JQ runs two map zergs in SEA time zone and TC and FA can only field one then SEA is JQ’s prime.

If TC and FA run two during NA time zone and JQ runs one then that is TC’s and FA’s prime.

We can end up with three servers with different “prime times”.

We can’t be giving preferential treatment to a server just because NA is their prime and NA is most common prime time. Many NA servers actually have prime times that are during the EU, SEA or OCX windows.

We can’t have JQ being penalised on scoring just because TC and FA can’t field two map zergs during OUR prime without also punishing TCs and FAs scoring when JQ can’t manage to field two zergs during THEIR prime.

Please allay my fears by telling me I’ve misunderstood how it will work

Well, this is more of a personal issue. If JQ players are hurt for NA servers having centralized NA prime-time then just transfer to other servers. Either way JQ is not doing so hot in PPT land. You are currently bordering on entering Tier 3. Your players will be transferring off whether or not these changes go through.

Rather than penalizing people who play when few others do, you should be incentivizing more people to play during those hours.

One way you could do this is to scale personal rewards based on either:

1. what hour of the day a person is playing, or
2. the ratio of the server’s current WvW population to its 24 hour average WvW population. (weekly and/or maximum populations could also be used)

If the increased rewards during such periods compete with or exceed what people can obtain in other areas of the game, people would be more encouraged to play WvW instead, thus helping to fill the shortfall in player numbers. I understand the outnumbered buff already fulfills this role to a certain extent, but clearly it is still inadequate.

An additional way you could get players into WvW would be to display some sort of ingame message (similar to when PvP tournaments are held, or when Scarlett was invading a given map) to members of the server asking them for help in WvW and mentioning the increased rewards to be gained.

I do not believe lowering the value of people’s contributions to the score during “off-hours” is a fair or equitable solution, as it will only make people care less about playing during said hours.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

Potential (controversial) additional change:

• While the above change takes steps to bring the value of off-hours coverage in-line, there’s a good chance it’ll still be overvalued. If that’s the case (and we’ll eventually poll on this), then we have plans for an additional system.
• This is the Action Level – Victory Point Multiplier system
  • This system would multiply the Victory Points awarded by Skirmishes based on map populations and time of day.
  • During prime time hours, the multiplier would always be at it’s maximum of 3.
  • During off hours, the multiplier might stay at 3 or drop to 2 or 1, depending on on activity level.
  • It’s important to include map populations as a factor, to make the system more fair for off hours players and its important to include time-of-day as a factor to prevent a winning team from trying to keep the score muliplier low by exiting WvW

This does not make sense to me. Give one good reason for why time should matter at all in deciding who wins?
I think regardless if I fight at 1am or 1pm, my contribution should still be the same. My contribution should only rely on how much resistance I face doing what I do. So I would say, drop the time factor. I think most of the other changes sounds good.

For example if server A has 10 players, and server B has 1 player. It makes sense to factor in the population ratio, but not factor in the time of day.

I think otherwise, if time is factored in, it might alienate people playing in different timezones on the same server. People playing in the “correct”(read: primetime) timezone will effectively be able to contribute more than those who can’t play at that time.

WvWvW lack of balance is sick….

I’m wary on the Last Stand mechanic.

Yes, population falters on the leading days to a reset, but when it does, it allows new commanders to try and get started up and lets the big runs take a break. I question if this may lead to potential commander burnout or rising commanders to be shut out of trying to lead.

Similarly, it may still cause deadzones on the day before Last Stand takes effect, since the points for that day truly don’t matter that much. Keep an eye on this.

I like the prospect of Skirmishes promoting off-hours play in what I believed to be a critical part of scoring: maintaining upgraded structures. Even in dull off hours, the contributions of low activity but maintaining objectives can set the precedent for servers to win big (or similarly have marginal gains) in prime time.

Falsk.8193:

WvWvW lack of balance is sick….

Cool bug screen shot. Make sure you post it to the Bugs section of the forums. Your server is only ticking 2(60)? Though. The keeps, towers, and camps don’t add up to the full values.

DeceiverX.8361:

Falsk.8193:

WvWvW lack of balance is sick….

Cool bug screen shot. Make sure you post it to the Bugs section of the forums. Your server is only ticking 2(60)? Though.

No bugg just VERY poor balance…

Ogre.3124:

Grim West.3194:

Ogre.3124:

Having to stay up all night because OCX/SEA players would otherwise cap uncontested objectives. Good point.

If you think stacking is such a good idea then why are you against the OCX / SEA players?

Your whole post seems to be a result of psychosis. Where have I mentioned stacking, and where did I say I am against all OCX/SEA players? The ones whose sole purpose is avoiding fights and PvD when NA players sleep are cancer

The rule changes being discussed here have nothing to do with your post. Winning the occasional skirmish against larger numbers is not special. Everyone has done it, on every server.

We do moreso than most. Again, what post are you even reading? You wrote three paragraphs arguing with me about ppt when I’m mentioning fights.

lil devils x.6071:

I agree with Luvpie here, everyone’s effort should be valued the same regardless of what time they are able to play.

Agreed. Currently OCX/SEA players who ppt are worth many more times NA players. OCX/SEA on NA servers generating a large chunk of the ppt while having a very minor % of the players is marginalizing a majority of players

Removing the PPT passive scoring all together and basing the score on Objective based PPK would solve numerous problems all around. If they stop rewarding PvD no time zone can run up the score on the other, it is based on the players they kill. If there is no one to kill, they obviously cannot run up the score and still treat everyone equally. It is their attempt to reward lazy/ bad game play that has to be removed to solve numerous problems with the game mode. It is not the " tier" or number of NPC’s you have to fight that should score more points, it should be the number of players you have to kill to take it that determines the score. They should stop trying to inject and prop up PvE scoring into a PvP game mode, that is what is causing “nightcapping” to even be an issue.

They should not even have a need to marginalize any time zone if they scored the game properly. It is a large scale PvP game mode. They should treat it like a PvP game mode and reward PvP, not PvD.

Ogre.3124:

Well, this is more of a personal issue. If JQ players are hurt for NA servers having centralized NA prime-time then just transfer to other servers. Either way JQ is not doing so hot in PPT land. You are currently bordering on entering Tier 3. Your players will be transferring off whether or not these changes go through.

I don’t know about transferring off, it was actually pretty fun fighting TC and FA last night.

Props to the FA SEA map zerg (GK guild?) for taking us on continually during SEA prime (even though they were wiping quite often).

It’s a refreshing change from a certain T1 server that likes to run away from every fight (not BG).

I don’t think we want to transfer off JQ, it would only fragment an already great community (some wouldn’t transfer due to cost, some would transfer, some would go to different servers, etc).

JQ’s match up with IoJ is obviously quite wrong when you compare it to the other T1 servers. I think Arenanet should be doing a one off rebalance based on this weeks stats that haven’t been manipulated by people logging off (and then revert to the 3 month rebalance).

Is the patch coming out tmm?

Most servers have a good population of non NA players. There are fights even during non NA prime time. SURPRISE!!!! Wow huh..

My suggestion is to designate 3 servers for EU, 3 servers for SEA and 3 servers for ocx. There is a significant population of Non-na players and this will prevent shaving off the player population by a fair bit

If you penalize OCX / SEA then you need to penalized BG, TC and any other server that stacks for exactly the same reasons. Otherwise it’s just another form of racism.. again.

Grim West.3194:

If you penalize OCX / SEA then you need to penalized BG, TC and any other server that stacks for exactly the same reasons. Otherwise it’s just another form of racism.. again.

Not sure if " racism" is the right word. I was not aware they were discriminating against Asurans for their lack of height.. They are discriminating against players based on what time they work, sleep and are able to play. No ones game time is more valuable than anothers, everyone paid for the game just the same. There are solutions that treat all players equally no matter what time they play and if they stopped trying to prop up PvE scoring in a PvP game mode that would help solve the problem by itself.

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

Ogre.3124:

Well, this is more of a personal issue. If JQ players are hurt for NA servers having centralized NA prime-time then just transfer to other servers. Either way JQ is not doing so hot in PPT land. You are currently bordering on entering Tier 3. Your players will be transferring off whether or not these changes go through.

I don’t know about transferring off, it was actually pretty fun fighting TC and FA last night.

Props to the FA SEA map zerg (GK guild?) for taking us on continually during SEA prime (even though they were wiping quite often).

It’s a refreshing change from a certain T1 server that likes to run away from every fight (not BG).

I don’t think we want to transfer off JQ, it would only fragment an already great community (some wouldn’t transfer due to cost, some would transfer, some would go to different servers, etc).

JQ’s match up with IoJ is obviously quite wrong when you compare it to the other T1 servers. I think Arenanet should be doing a one off rebalance based on this weeks stats that haven’t been manipulated by people logging off (and then revert to the 3 month rebalance).

No way you were fighting TC and fa in the same match yesterday.

I wonder how the system would consider servers like BG that sometimes goes into #hibergate mode.

For example the late NA commanders might just finish up early (within the 6 hours gap) and just leave all the maps dead from PST all the way till SEA or even longer if SEA decides they wanna scrim/GvG instead and nobody pugmands. It’d just be a wasteland with nobody playing but still have somewhat competitive scoring? That really can’t be fun for us or our opponents.

Also, awarding more points to capping upgraded objectives just incentivizes people to let the enemy upgrade everything off hours and go hard during the 6 hours in NA. There’d be little incentive to go and cut supply routes to prevent upgrades and kill a lot of the roaming fights.

Liston.9708:

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

Ogre.3124:

Well, this is more of a personal issue. If JQ players are hurt for NA servers having centralized NA prime-time then just transfer to other servers. Either way JQ is not doing so hot in PPT land. You are currently bordering on entering Tier 3. Your players will be transferring off whether or not these changes go through.

I don’t know about transferring off, it was actually pretty fun fighting TC and FA last night.

Props to the FA SEA map zerg (GK guild?) for taking us on continually during SEA prime (even though they were wiping quite often).

It’s a refreshing change from a certain T1 server that likes to run away from every fight (not BG).

I don’t think we want to transfer off JQ, it would only fragment an already great community (some wouldn’t transfer due to cost, some would transfer, some would go to different servers, etc).

JQ’s match up with IoJ is obviously quite wrong when you compare it to the other T1 servers. I think Arenanet should be doing a one off rebalance based on this weeks stats that haven’t been manipulated by people logging off (and then revert to the 3 month rebalance).

No way you were fighting TC and fa in the same match yesterday.

Must be talking about YB (same thing as fighting TC though so not like it makes much difference) Run to tower AC, AC, AC,…. Run to tower.. AC, AC, AC.. rinse and repeat.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

• As a rough number, PPK may increase to 3-5 points, rather than 1, with diminishing returns on killing players who have been alive for less than 5 minutes.

Depending on the numbers, it may be worth it for zergs to log out and back in regularly.

DeceiverX.8361:

Falsk.8193:

WvWvW lack of balance is sick….

Cool bug screen shot. Make sure you post it to the Bugs section of the forums. Your server is only ticking 2(60)? Though. The keeps, towers, and camps don’t add up to the full values.

It should be worth noting he’s looking at the Eternal Battlegrounds score, not the total WvW score.

The score in EB does, in fact, total up to +260.

Liston.9708:

No way you were fighting TC and fa in the same match yesterday.

He could have multiple accounts you know. Many of us do.

As for this topic, I think most of it is either good or neutral and worth trying. The only thing I have issue with is the prime time thing. There should be no time slice where it’s always the most valuable. All time slices should either have no multiplier at all or the multiplier is always dependant on activity/population level.

OMFG ANet yall are really going pull me fully back into GW2 with these changes. Sounds really good and exciting if it works as plan. I have faith in you ANet keep up the good work and interest in making your WvW game mode great again.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Tyler Bearce.3427:

• As a rough number, PPK may increase to 3-5 points, rather than 1, with diminishing returns on killing players who have been alive for less than 5 minutes.

Depending on the numbers, it may be worth it for zergs to log out and back in regularly.

Or better yet, jump off a cliff and kill your entire zerg before you fight each time keeping within the 5 min zone to ensure the enemy gets diminished returns.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

• Warscore for Caravan Kills, Caravan Delivery and Sentry Capture should increase by at a similar rate as PPK.

Hold on… are you saying that CARAVAN DELIVERY has been adding to the score this whole time? How long has that been in the game, and why can’t I find any mention of it anywhere?!?

Can we, at some point, please get a full list of things that add points to the board in WvW? This has been a constant point of confusion for WvW players since the game’s release. Not know where all of the points come from is incredibly frustrating in any competitive game, even semi-competitive. It would be a huge help to WvW players, imo, to know where ALL of the War Score comes from.

Also, yay for increased points from Yak-slapping, and other active gameplay!

Yak kills give 3 points and sentries 1 point I think so it was always weird to me that you could just kill the yaks from enemy camp and get more PPT overall than to cap it and hold it.

I don’t get the scrutinizing against ocx/sea with their scaling, I can name at least few servers who has more NA than NA. If ocx/sea gets popluation scaling, so should NA

Tbh i just don’t like disincentives to play anything, we all know how well that went with dungeons. Rather than punish people who aren’t playing those 6 hours in NA they should make more people play the other 18 hours.

lil devils x.6071:

• No PPK or LOOT for siege damage on players. Siege can still do more damage on players than their character, but they will have to forego their LOOT and PPK if they even think about touching that AC. This encourages players to learn their characters and fight with characters instead of siege, and make hard choices and discourages zerg siege humping encouraging fun fights instead.

Make this happen, please.

Whos keep is this anyway
OCX where the games made up and the points don’t matter

Roxanne.6140:

Goodbye ocx/sea. Game looks racist now

RIP ocx/sea

Tyler Bearce.3427:

Hey guys, as most of your are probably aware, Scoring Improvements won over QoL improvements in the last poll. So now it’s time to delve deeper into what that means.

Hey, I wont quote everything, but it looks quite good to me overall. There are nice touches that should create more balanced matches and make players care more about scores (so they log into WvW more and they also want to fight more).

As with every change there will be players who complain but this is still going to improve WvW. All the best to WvW team

I am impressed by you and the rest of the WvW team Tyler, this kind of player interaction Guild Wars II needs. With regular polling, detailed explanations and reacting to player feedback is a refreshing change. I hope such an approach can be taken in many other areas of the game especially in regards to the next expansion and Living World.

As for the current plans, they look like a huge improvement. I was never big into PvP but WvW has always be fun, yet quite flawed. With recent changes and what is planned I have to admit I am loving it, I look forward to reading what future plans are!

DeceiverX.8361:

I’m wary on the Last Stand mechanic.

Yes, population falters on the leading days to a reset, but when it does, it allows new commanders to try and get started up and lets the big runs take a break. I question if this may lead to potential commander burnout or rising commanders to be shut out of trying to lead.

I dont really see how this is any different from a weekend where everyone want to get ahead. Having a last stand on friday will just extend that one day. The only thing that concern me is that this will heavily favor daytime crews… but then again with the nerf to nighttime crews, maybe it’ll be alright.

Regarding new commanders it’s a non-issue. There are waaaaaaaay too few commanders around to shut anyone out. Hell, even during primetime when commanders are on every map there are still too few commanders. Sure a 50 man blob will take things and engage other 50 man blobs on even grounds, but it’s the 2 ten man minizergs next to it that will allow the blue commander to dominate a map. People are way too scared of seeing multiple tags other than guilds, sigh…

lil devils x.6071:

Grim West.3194:

If you penalize OCX / SEA then you need to penalized BG, TC and any other server that stacks for exactly the same reasons. Otherwise it’s just another form of racism.. again.

Not sure if " racism" is the right word. I was not aware they were discriminating against Asurans for their lack of height.. They are discriminating against players based on what time they work, sleep and are able to play. No ones game time is more valuable than anothers, everyone paid for the game just the same. There are solutions that treat all players equally no matter what time they play and if they stopped trying to prop up PvE scoring in a PvP game mode that would help solve the problem by itself.

I definitely agree that there are better solutions than pve scoring. And would personally prefer that. But to be honest, I just don’t see the devs going that far. They seem to be committed to PPT mode. As long as that is true then evening out the player base across time zones and servers is the only way to keep it competitive.

I can see their dilemma. The maps are built around siege tactics that require a lot of PvD. Prioritizing PPK would require a major reworking of the maps and basic systems. That is probably beyond their ability to do in a reasonable time frame given the resources (manpower) they have availabe.

Grim West.3194:

lil devils x.6071:

Grim West.3194:

If you penalize OCX / SEA then you need to penalized BG, TC and any other server that stacks for exactly the same reasons. Otherwise it’s just another form of racism.. again.

Not sure if " racism" is the right word. I was not aware they were discriminating against Asurans for their lack of height.. They are discriminating against players based on what time they work, sleep and are able to play. No ones game time is more valuable than anothers, everyone paid for the game just the same. There are solutions that treat all players equally no matter what time they play and if they stopped trying to prop up PvE scoring in a PvP game mode that would help solve the problem by itself.

I definitely agree that there are better solutions than pve scoring. And would personally prefer that. But to be honest, I just don’t see the devs going that far. They seem to be committed to PPT mode. As long as that is true then evening out the player base across time zones and servers is the only way to keep it competitive.

I can see their dilemma. The maps are built around siege tactics that require some PvD. Reworking the whole system would probably require reworking the maps and that is probably beyond their ability to do in a reasonable time frame given the resources (manpower) they have available.

It would be a better business decision to be committed to making the best Large scale PvP game on the market and grow their game by making players care about the score again. As long as they are bull headed about rewarding PvD and Lazy game play, players will not care about the score. If they increase their player base with their decisions it will be worth the resources and manpower they use to resolve the issues. They are wasting MORE manpower and resources trying to keep the PPT scoring in place since it runs off more players and causes more problems to fix long term.

You cannot even out the players across servers, that should be obvious after 3 years. That is trying to do it backwards. Considering these guilds that are in this game play many games together not just this one and would just rather play a different game together than not play one that will not allow their guild to play together or is going to devalue their game play they need to adjust their strategy to fit the population rather than foster failed ideas that they can control who wants to play with who and against who. THAT is the one things that will never work in a MMORPG since players want to play the game with their friends, family, guildies, and coworkers.. and the people they play with is more important than which game they choose to play. Trying to split them up just equates to " send their business elsewhere where they can enjoy playing a game together instead". You have tons of players that quit playing or only play now and then that are also on these servers with their accounts logged out. They can come back and play whenever they feel like doing so or any guild can all leave the game at any point. Population is constantly changing and is not going to ever be " balanced" The best you can do is make the maps adjust to the population of the servers in the match, and add and reduce maps as needed to relieve queues or reduce area to cover in accordance with the population that is playing at that time.

Them being committed to force rewarding lazy/ bad gameplay and PvE scoring upon PvP game mode is what is causing the problem, and THAT is what should be addressed, not trying to treat players badly by devaluing their game play or handicap others to give them a chance… =Just fix the problem and treat all players equally.

fishball.7204:

Yak kills give 3 points and sentries 1 point I think so it was always weird to me that you could just kill the yaks from enemy camp and get more PPT overall than to cap it and hold it.

Back at release, Yaks could grant up to 10 points… and they never told anyone! It wasn’t until Devon Carver got the forums that we found out that Yaks were yielding 1 point per tap, up to 10 points per Yak. All kinds of stuff all over the maps were yielding points, actually, and no one knew until nearly a year after the game’s release. lol

But if Yaks are also yielding points when they reach they’re destination (Caravan Deliveries), as listed in the OP of this thread, then the math on farming Yaks vs holding the camp is different. Unfortunately, I can’t find any mention anywhere of Caravan Deliveries giving points until THIS thread came out.

Re: PPK , are uplevels counted as a full score kill? If yes, please standardize all gear to exotic/ascended.

Re: Last stand
It’s probably not necessary if the activity meter thing gets put in place.

I am a SEA player. Over the last year especially since GW2 China came out, we have experienced a big drop in numbers playing WvW. Changing scoring to effectively reduce the contributions that we make on scores effectively is telling us that we are not needed in this game. I paid the same dollars as an American player did when I bought this game, I buy as much gems as the average player or maybe even more. I’m not sure if there might even be a case for suing Anet for making a scoring change to effectively favour people in other timezones in a MMO game played globally. I’m pretty sure this is tantamount to biasness towards part of your customer base who have made the loudest criss about “nightcapping”, but for your European, Asian and Australian players on NA servers, you are making it unfair to these customers of yours. So yeah, I hope Tyler you will have some serious considerations about this and refrain from making a decision that undermines a big portion of your customer base.

Very, very interesting changes, imo. I am sure it will be chaotic to begin with, but then wvw’ers will get used to it as Anet tweaks it some more.

Exciting changes, to say the least.

Grim West.3194:

If you penalize OCX / SEA then you need to penalized BG, TC and any other server that stacks for exactly the same reasons. Otherwise it’s just another form of racism.. again.

WTF? You DO realize that this is just a computer game, yes?

Another form of racism? Do you even get out of your house at all????

“Rip Ocx/sea” and similiar comments make me laugh.
WvW is a PPT Game, so the most ppt should be awarded when the most players play wvw. So Look at all NA/EU Servers, look when each Server has the most Players and find the average. Thats exactly what happens, so its a good change.
Theres no reason why Players playing during times with lesser Players should make the same Impact than during prime time.
Having to work during the day and only being able to play during night or living in a different timezone is no excuse. Most Points should and finally will be awarded when most are playing.
Its just fair and Servers with a high Night Cap Population will still have an advantage. If said Servers have a low Prime Time then their Place wasnt in the current Tier anyways and they should and must drop a Tier. Its no fun for 2 other Servers playing vs a weak Server during Prime Time, its pretty boring when theres no enemies or they are only running away. And then still losing to the weak Server because it has 30-40 Players during night ticking away at 500.

bubbachua.1243:

I am a SEA player. Over the last year especially since GW2 China came out, we have experienced a big drop in numbers playing WvW. Changing scoring to effectively reduce the contributions that we make on scores effectively is telling us that we are not needed in this game. I paid the same dollars as an American player did when I bought this game, I buy as much gems as the average player or maybe even more. I’m not sure if there might even be a case for suing Anet for making a scoring change to effectively favour people in other timezones in a MMO game played globally. I’m pretty sure this is tantamount to biasness towards part of your customer base who have made the loudest criss about “nightcapping”, but for your European, Asian and Australian players on NA servers, you are making it unfair to these customers of yours. So yeah, I hope Tyler you will have some serious considerations about this and refrain from making a decision that undermines a big portion of your customer base.

I do believe that the need to retain the population during times that 98% play the game exceed the need of the 2%. Offtime cappers have undermined a vast majority of the customer base for 4 years.

This scoring change will turn everything topsy turvy and I’m still not sure it will even accomplish what they say it will do.

bubbachua.1243:

I am a SEA player. Over the last year especially since GW2 China came out, we have experienced a big drop in numbers playing WvW. Changing scoring to effectively reduce the contributions that we make on scores effectively is telling us that we are not needed in this game. I paid the same dollars as an American player did when I bought this game, I buy as much gems as the average player or maybe even more. I’m not sure if there might even be a case for suing Anet for making a scoring change to effectively favour people in other timezones in a MMO game played globally. I’m pretty sure this is tantamount to biasness towards part of your customer base who have made the loudest criss about “nightcapping”, but for your European, Asian and Australian players on NA servers, you are making it unfair to these customers of yours. So yeah, I hope Tyler you will have some serious considerations about this and refrain from making a decision that undermines a big portion of your customer base.

You are still going to contribute a lot. Having upgraded structures, still gaining skirmish points, and if there are quite a few of you you will add even more points. Basically you are saying that your contribution is worth more than more populated times… its hella ez to cap during off hours… I have plenty of experience doing it myself making 20-40k point swings throughout one night…

You must be in some wood tier if you can make 20k-40k points in 1 night.

Personally, I think you’re barking up the wrong tree. I’m not specifically against any of the proposed changes, but they don’t address the core of the issue. “Night capping” is a direct result of uneven coverage – why not attempt to fix that instead of the secondary problems it creates?
Off the top of my head, a simple solution using existing features would be to vary linking over the course of a day. We have 4 matchups for NA. Boil that down to 1-2 during off hours, and “night capping” largely goes away. The servers with little to no coverage will be carried by their linking partners, the linking can control population balance fairly well, and (most importantly) it would create a much more active environment for the people playing in these timezones.