Guild Wars 2

EsarioOne.9840:

Entenkommando.5208:

Close this thread and reopen it in 3-4 weeks. There are no real opinions yet.

Initial opinions are opinions. Alo, they are useful for metric crunchers.

Game is released for less then a week, at least try it.

Yes some things are not working properly, but at least go play it. Perhaps when you play it more you do like it.

In HoT as a total i think there are good and bad things in it. I recon those things will be sorted in upcoming time.

i feel its too big but if they adjust the size and maybe make it more vertical with gliding it has potential but to have a map like that with no gliding just seems wrong !
But i feel for those who want the old BL back or new one entirely will be disappointed I am fairly certain this will be our BL until the next expansion lol

ImLegion.4018:

EsarioOne.9840:

Entenkommando.5208:

Close this thread and reopen it in 3-4 weeks. There are no real opinions yet.

Initial opinions are opinions. Alo, they are useful for metric crunchers.

Game is released for less then a week, at least try it.

Yes some things are not working properly, but at least go play it. Perhaps when you play it more you do like it.

In HoT as a total i think there are good and bad things in it. I recon those things will be sorted in upcoming time.

Like the waypoint in enemy tower, super cool burning oils in SM, merchants which are selling siege instead… Yea… I’m sure they fix everything soonTM

emendez.3705:

i feel its too big but if they adjust the size and maybe make it more vertical with gliding it has potential but to have a map like that with no gliding just seems wrong !
But i feel for those who want the old BL back or new one entirely will be disappointed I am fairly certain this will be our BL until the next expansion lol

Yes gliding should be in the maps. Pretty much in every map.

I dont like new maps because:
To big
To many levels
To messed up with to much details

I want it clean, 1 – 2 levels & not so much details AND not to big maps – like the old ones!

erKo.9586:

I dont like new maps because:
To big
To many levels
To messed up with to much details

I want it clean, 1 – 2 levels & not so much details AND not to big maps – like the old ones!

What you don’t like, seems to me to be what most posters were asking for in the CDI. I didn’t like the maps at first, but once I got into some larger battles, and did a little roaming as well, I found them to be quit nice.

a larger map was needed but its still too big. in wvwv less is more as wvw is a game mode where the players decide what happens. if nobody watches a keep and refreshes siege etc, it will be taken by another server for example and if no dolyak makes it to the keep, well it cant upgrade.
wvw should not be a maze like eotm, new map is a massive confusing maze.
keeps way way way to weird and dont even look like a polace anyone would stay at whereas at the old maps the keeps actually were real keeps and not random mazes with jumping puzzles and weird pve elements and ai traps

some areas of the new map are nice and flat and i can see some nice fights happening

let the player make traps and siege dont force it on them or let ai control it as it feels much better if you placed a siege well or your trap prevented the enemy from having enough supply or u killed that 1 dolyak that would have upgraded the keep u were attacking…etc

keep pve out of wvw
less is more in wvw.
less ai elements
remove pve laser event
make keeps actually look like a real keep without the weird eotm mazes
no automated upgrades
no ai traps
simplify the entire map its too cluttered and to much stuff makes the map laggy

coglin.1867:

erKo.9586:

I dont like new maps because:
To big
To many levels
To messed up with to much details

I want it clean, 1 – 2 levels & not so much details AND not to big maps – like the old ones!

What you don’t like, seems to me to be what most posters were asking for in the CDI. I didn’t like the maps at first, but once I got into some larger battles, and did a little roaming as well, I found them to be quit nice.

Please, show me where and in which CDI, WvW players asked for PvE map.
And please do not try to sell us this bull…., “at first i didn’t like the map but then i did this and that, and now I LOVE IT”, we all know you, so please dont…

I’m fine with the new map.

WvW was legendary game mode in MMO gaming, now it has been thrown into abyss! Why, WHY!

Been running around some more now and i agree that they need to remove 50% off the mountains so there is more open fields and less chock points and make it easier to get to Keep, towers, camps.

Barricades players should be able to build not automatically popup.

The size off the map feel good but now it is small corridors that you have to run in with lvl after lvl.

The zone is beautiful but it isn’t well designed.

1. Too much vertical shift

2. Too large, convoluted, and confusing

3. Too many gimmicky mechanics

4. Too many PvE elements.

They were clearly informed of this from day 1 of giving players beta access. We did our job providing feedback to them. Too bad they chose to ignore it.

Also, the lag is actually far worse in larger fights. IS it the new gimmicks causing that? Who knows.

I can’t play them our server is always empty. And they should have add it just ones and keep the old ones to. No idea whyu they removed the old ones. Expansion usually means adding things

I totally hate the new map.

- too much space for roaming
- no ruins with bloodlust
- too easy to hide inside a tower/keep for a mesmer/thief
- scouting is almost impossible and makes no sense

I like the optical design, i need to get used to the new paths and i dislike the new automatic upgrades aswell as the hunting for monsters. GW2 has so many PvE areas, keep WvW a fighting-focused one.

The new borderlands are too spaced out. In the lower tiers, it’s hard to run around and defend things effectively with fewer people. Just think about it – the left and right keeps don’t have waypoints anymore, and since the map is huge, it takes a while to respond to attacks. If two groups were to attack our keep, it would be exceedingly difficult to defend compared to before.

Population issues are still a thing and they won’t change unless ANET addresses population in some form. Maybe more players came back from expansion, but this plays out for all servers, and not all players that have come back exclusively play WvW. At this current state, I can easily see WvW in the lower tiers as coverage wars, where it’ll pretty much be ktraining for those that have players at their server’s primetime.

I think they’re pretty, and I didn’t mind the vertical space usage. But Anet should’ve realized when they utilize vertical space, they almost doubled the size of old borderlands. With the current WvW population, even in T1 you can’t make these new desert borderlands feel “alive”. This is because you pretty much need map blobs from all 3 servers to begin to even feel like there’s a chance you might find action.

The potential for fights are there, but the PvE distractions are not attracting fights like they envisioned. I know the devs that designed these new borderland maps probably had thoughts in their mind about how people would play them. But right now as we see it, nothing is working out like they had imagined.

Devs thought it might be cool to cripple and knock players around like ragdolls. They thought players would go out of their way to disable these things in their mind, creating some sort of mini games among players. In reality, getting crippled while running from point A to B is just plain annoying. Getting knocked back and down over and over while trying to fight enemies is extremely annoying to a point of rage quitting. People get annoyed by these things and they start to avoid these maps completely. This is just one example of reality not matching up to what devs had in their minds.

Devs thought by creating some super laser in the middle that people would gravitate to that location and fight over it. In reality, WvW players really just don’t care to run around doing pve over a laser. I’ve watched guildies solo enable the laser without being challenged. Another example of reality not matching up to what the devs had envisioned.

There are just way too many things that make fighting not fun in these new desert borderland maps. There are way too many places to go for people to avoid fights, just like EOTM. WvW players warned them of that, they ignored, and now we’re seeing exactly what we said would happen.

It’s not un-salvageable. Some changes and tweaks here and there could make these borderlands fun. It’s like some small tweaks to hero points got people to play the game again and unlock their elite specs. Sometimes it doesn’t have to be big changes, Anet just has to find the right changes. These maps are beautiful, the potential is there, but the execution is exactly as how us WvW players had imagined.

Lastly, server population across the board are down for WvW. Unless changes are made to WvWvW, it’s time to merge the low pop servers. And pretty much most servers marked as “medium” are low pop. Not even T1 servers can make these new desert borderlands feel alive and action packed. They’ve doubled the amount of space by vertical usage, but WvW activities have gone down, so right now it’s just not working. I believe all servers should be opened up to allow transfers, no servers should be marked full, or what I would call it c’blocked. You need to give people ways to fill servers up, not more reasons to quit playing.

Now if WvW is changed to be some sort of a “battlegroup” style, like how EOTM is setup, or how WoW matches servers up in BG’s, you could easily match high pop servers with low pop servers in the same battlegroup. This way everybody gets to have more fun, and it wouldn’t matter if you’re on a high pop or low pop server. But this would require Anet to spend dev time and meeting time to sort out. Right now I’m not sure if Anet is willing to spend that much attention to WvW with how things are going. Still, one can only hope.

Sorry to be blunt, but the New map sucks on so many levels I can’t even begin to give some kind of constructive feedback. Waste of dev time imho.

Seems to be the biggest complaint stems from the fact that theres to many servers. T1/T2/T3 isnt hard to find fights. These new maps are the best part of the xpac.

Also, the maps arent to big. The old maps were to small. Thats always been the biggest complaint from sensible players. What, youre upset that it takes you 2 minutes instead of 1 minute to get from 1 side of the map to the other? Nothing worse that being a solo roamer always getting run over by zerg blobs every 10 feet. Now T1-3 zergs actually have to split off every now and then instead of moving from 1 objective to the next, as it was way to easy to move from point A to B.

Keeping PvE out of WvW arguments are funny considering every objective has always been PvE based (kill doors, kill lords).

Simply merge every server below T3 into the T4 and T5 servers. Problem solved.

gavyne.6847:

I think they’re pretty, and I didn’t mind the vertical space usage. But Anet should’ve realized when they utilize vertical space, they almost doubled the size of old borderlands.

Uhm… its more than “almost doubled”. Much more. Its 2x as large on the 2D plane alone by using the full map square. Then you got the huge area beneath the desert which would be enough to fit 2 Stonemists. And to be honest thats as far as I have explored, but I am guessing there are more multi-level areas. The effective surface area of the new border is probably more in the range of 3x as large.

gebrechen.5643:

- too much space for roaming

How so?

gebrechen.5643:

- no ruins with bloodlust

I couldn’t care less about the ruins themselves. But PPK would be nice

gebrechen.5643:

- too easy to hide inside a tower/keep for a mesmer/thief

No, it is literally impossible. Once you flip a keep, all enemies in the keep or displayed on the map as a red dot for 5 minutes.

gebrechen.5643:

- scouting is almost impossible and makes no sense

How so? You have guard that highlight the enemy on your map, scouting is easy, just different. Then again, if you think it is easy for a mesmer/thief to hide when their dot is on your minimap full time, I can see how you would think scouting makes no sense.

Short answer: love the new maps. Longer answer: have so much to do in game right now between getting specializations in place to guild halls to be able to craft WvW items to pvp to focus on practicing new specs and that leaves little time to focus on just one thing. The potential of various fights on the new maps is vast. WvW players are slow to react to change since they only see it occasionally. I would expect about 2-3 months before WvW population fully returns.

With only a few days in the borderlands this is preliminary

It does seem bigger, but some of this is the drastically reduced size of spawn and the removal of crafting stations. It is far more complex than it needs to be.

The main issue is getting around, the game needs some means of traveling faster to south and north. I would suggest putting the waypoints back in the two keeps and making it that the owners of these, whoever they are, can use them.

To more balance this the waypoint should have to be built. Move the present waypoints to T1, and only allow travelling to the keep waypoints at T3.

The gimmicks, like burning and invisibility do not help, neither does the laser cannon event in the middle of the map.

Suggest replacing the laser cannon with another fort, with a waypoint, but which does not upgrade. This could enable the free supply. Remove all red and yellow foes from this area.

At the moment my world’s borderland is almost empty, there isn’t enough people on to do anything.

DISLIKE for me…. thank God they left Eternal alone

wait till elite spec farm, new maps farm, heloween etc then decide. When there ACTUALLY will be enemies. Right now it’s just trashtalk.

I like new borderlands, though i want enemies so i wait…

coglin.1867:

gebrechen.5643:

- too much space for roaming

How so?

gebrechen.5643:

- no ruins with bloodlust

I couldn’t care less about the ruins themselves. But PPK would be nice

gebrechen.5643:

- too easy to hide inside a tower/keep for a mesmer/thief

No, it is literally impossible. Once you flip a keep, all enemies in the keep or displayed on the map as a red dot for 5 minutes.

And once the 5mins is up? The keeps are so big that it should be easy for a thief or mesmer to avoid capture for 5 mins.

What a beautifully designed waste of time.

The maps themselves are way to big but thats not the whole problem here. The mechanics are totally messed up; WAY too much pve for what was needed. WAY to complicated inside keeps.

Now who cares? No one cares at all. No one cares for yaks or camps cause the things will upgrade anyway, really bad mechanic that has annoyed more than a few. Probabably worse, WVW is way down the this for repairs and updates.

If ANET had actually got real wvw players into the design from the very start and not a bunch of streamers in beta then maybe they would have understood what was needed. As it is, this is what we got, enjoy it, or learn to do so cause ANET isnt going to change it for at least a few years.

looks cool, but ultimately a miss. i want to say i’ve spent at least 2-3k hours in wvw and played almost every day after work however since the update came out i havent really touched it. i’m pretty sure HoT killed it.

coglin.1867:

How so?

Good luck finding anyone out there and reaching him in time if he has touched a sentry.

No, it is literally impossible. Once you flip a keep, all enemies in the keep or displayed on the map as a red dot for 5 minutes.

It’s not that hard to hide or run in this terrain for 5 minutes.

How so? You have guard that highlight the enemy on your map, scouting is easy, just different. Then again, if you think it is easy for a mesmer/thief to hide when their dot is on your minimap full time, I can see how you would think scouting makes no sense.

First of all it makes almost no sense to try to defend a keep. You won’t get a waypoint fast, so it’s not that important to keep is (while supply isn’t much of an issue anymore)
Second, even if you place siege the keeps/towers are so confusing that you can’t tell someone to refresh all the siege. Sure, that will take time, but that’s a back to the beginning, why you want to hold a keep that is easier taken than defended and hasn’t the same worth a waypointed keep had in the old maps.

Another problem for scouts is that you either need a lot of them to really see whats happening or you only scout inner which will make it almost impossible to get a defensive force inside in time without a waypoint.

Last night. NA Prime in T2. 40 man queue in EB.

No queue in any other map.

FABL though, we capped half the map before finally seeing 1 big FA group. Of course the new build kicked us and locked most of us out for the remainder of the night.

So much fun ((insert irony))

T1 – YB

Only map queued since HOT has been EB.

They should put a flax patch in the middle of every WvW map, now that would spice things up =E

dislike. period.

I like the new maps, there’s just not enough people. I was expecting it to pick up since it was pretty low on the old maps as well. Maybe time to merge servers.

What I dont understand is why they had to completely remove the old maps. Its really stupid from a business perspective as well as a big middle finger to the creators of the old borderlands. Are they gonna remove each and every kittening borderlands map with each new update? Why cant they have a different borderlands map for each world? Thats so much time and money wasted.

I dislike them. They’re big, confusing, and just generally a pain to do stuff in. I doubt I’ll do anything other than eternal or edge ever again. Maybe in time I’ll like it more, but I doubt it. I hate the entire expansion with all the jumping, gliding, and tricks for getting around.

Dislike greatly. All of my bad feelings about the maps from the beta carried over to live.

Stand The Wall.6987:

What I dont understand is why they had to completely remove the old maps. Its really stupid from a business perspective as well as a big middle finger to the creators of the old borderlands. Are they gonna remove each and every kittening borderlands map with each new update? Why cant they have a different borderlands map for each world? Thats so much time and money wasted.

They should have EotM as a third borderland map with Alpine. Then we would have 4 maps instead of 1 and 3 copies of the other. Before doing anything with the new map (which is fine btw, it only needs more waypoints) they should change the server system and PPT/PPK scoring mechanics.

I love that each keep has its own flavor and the introduction of shrines makes it kind of more fun for roamers. The thing I like least about the map is how confusing it is. Its so vertical and doesn’t really make much sense as it feels extremely cramped. As it stands right now, I haven’t found a single person that cares about the Oasis event but that’s probably because most WvW players are playing the new PvE content. Also I’m fond of the new champions acting much like the ones in EOTM where each one has its own skills. They are much tougher to take down which makes taking a tower really quickly kind of hard and leave plenty of time for enemies to form up and push in. I’m kind of iffy on how tough they are but so far, it doesn’t seem like too big of a problem.

i think if the new map wasnt a borderland map, i’d play it instead of eotm when im in queue. its not horrible and pretty pve friendly, so maybe a map for players that arent really into wvw completely. for a wvw veteran like myself, this map has a too much clutte, pve elements and is far too complex.
a simple new map with simple keeps and towers and no pve was wished for and yes a bit bigger than the old one, but they need to be simple.

1 map needs to have very little to no pve elements
2 keeps need to be simpler but better to defend(like make walls a bitt safer to aoe
3 less jumping, less vertical( cc heavy classes could dominate otherwise by trowing everyone off the cliffs
4 less clutter ( clutter like the new map has, lags the game out. in wvw massive zergs clash sometimes and together with all theose terrible pve traps,pve elements, pve mobs, pve ai traps, pve shrines and weird complex keeps, the map is unplayably laggy and i have seen game lagging to a point where noone could use anything appart from a sword 1 skill.

Blackarps.1974:

I love that each keep has its own flavor and the introduction of shrines makes it kind of more fun for roamers.

I’m guessing you don’t actually roam if you think that roamers find killing those pointless PvE mobs to be fun.

Strongly Dislike the new maps.

They’re too huge and complex. There’s no way to catch up with a group on such a giant, complicated map. It’s more like a maze adventure than a battle.

My guild has been addicted to WvW since we discovered it over a year ago. Nobody interested in it now.

Dislike new maps.

In t2/t3 there was a shift over the last year to every single person just going to EBG to find enemies. I’m sure ANET has data showing that the vast majority of activity was always in EBG. They should have looked into WHY people were all going to EBG, and why EoTM was not a hit at all with WvW players.

Alpine borderlands, while charming, was too big already. Breaking roaming or fighting down purely to Time Spent Searching (TSS), EBG had by far the lowest TSS because of it’s condense size. You were never far from another enemy player. Alpine borderlands simply took longer to find players, so people drifted away from it over the years. If you did roam on Alpine, you only bother to look in the south because the north was cumbersome.

The new map is on par with EoTM in having an absurdly high TSS. I can’t imagine going there to look for any fight ever. Yes, the map is extremely pretty, but it’s so impractical.

If you get the urge to make a WvW map in the future ANet: Take note of what makes people go to EBG above all others. It’s condense yet thick, low Time Spent Searching for fights.

the big dimension is a plus to discourage zerging, cause it is no more efficient to zerg when small groups spread around can achieve something and the zerg take too long to reach and disrupt them.
the vertical layout is too confusing.
my feeling atm when i enter is that i need a mount and a gps…

Dislike the new Borderlands

I like it. They needed a change… to anything. I got sick of triple Alpine BLs 1.5 years ago.

It’s nice to have something new and they have potential, but there needs to be players on them.

I hate maze maps. I’m not a skritt.

Give us parkour, or gliders, or zip lines or something.

id enjoy it, if it wasn’t littered with unnecessary traps and a billion chokepoints…