Guild Wars 2

I think that they should have keeped the old maps + eb + eotm and add this new map as a option to play – just like eotm or something. NOT remove all our favorite maps with this PvE crap

coglin.1867:

Sanity Points.8073:

Too large, too gimmicky, too much PvE.

How do you suggest it is too large, when is literally the same size land mass as the old borderlands?

I’m not so sure about that… It’s considerably larger than EB, which was larger than the old BL’s… At least seems.

Regardless, pathing – how you get from ‘A’ to ‘B’ is absolutely more complex, even discounting for newness and unfamiliarity.

Traversing it is a challenge. Heck, finding my way around/out of our own citadel was a challenge, and can still be confusing.

There is a distinct difference, looking at the maps such that cognitively, I’m not able to understand how what I see on the map translates to what I see on the ground around me. The map itself becomes a puzzle, rather than a guide. That isn’t true of the Alpine maps when we would bring them up using ‘M’.

For a lot of folks who just want a map that makes using them both a hinderance and frustration. They are trying to get somewhere, not sort through a maze. We don’t have elevations. We don’t have clearly delineated paths. They are beautiful, but confusing, and have limited utility beyond giving us approximate locations of things.

‘Discovery’ and ‘Exploration’ are things I like doing on a PVE map; revealing stuff as I encounter it there is part of the ‘cool’ factor.

Not so much WvW. I want to get to the enemy, as quickly and effectively as possible. A coy, confusing map is then annoying rather than entertaining.

Phantom.8130:

Catalin.5341:

Let me ask you this. What benefit does a tower give? What benefit causes a server to defend it, and what benefit causes a server to want to capture it? What relevance does it have to the other structures on the map?

If the barricades were actual walls, then the zerg would have to take those walls down or go the other way around which takes a really long time especially circling the academy tower.

My guess here is that you’re confusing tactics with strategy. Things like knowing which wall to attack, and which combo fields to roll at what times, are tactics. They’re small scale, and only really affect the individual immediate area. Strategy is knowing which towers to push, triggering 2v1’s, which areas to defend and which to hit and run. Very large scale things that affect the whole map, or series of maps, and have long lasting impacts and consequences.

As it stands, there are tactics involved with the new maps. No matter what they put out, knowing the best way to attack an individual area is always going to be a thing. However, the areas don’t relate to each other. They’re completely separate, individual events. Meaning, strategy has been completely sacrificed.

Let’s use EB as an example here. The keeps are positioned directly in the center of the 4 towers. If we hold all 4 of our towers, it actually makes defending the keep quite a bit easier, since those towers can assist in the defense. However, if one of our towers gets taken, that tower (for the most part) can immediately be used to start attacking the keep. So the reason you want to defend the towers is because they help defend your keep, and the reason you want to take an enemy tower is because it can then be used to as a staging post to attack the keep. Don’t get me wrong, most of the time, you’re making a push, driving in as far as you can on the side closest to your third and you’re not holding those areas or continuing the attack. This pressures that server into falling back to defend, because if the attack isn’t countered, the attack will continue. This pulls the enemy server off of other important areas elsewhere on the map, and it also feels out their defenses and response times. And this is all strategy, the mental chess match. And it’s all because the actual layout of the areas not only allow all of these possibilities to happen, but actively promote them.

Whereas, on the new borderlands, if a tower gets flipped…. oh well. Nothing can happen beyond that. Which is why the new maps are laid out far closer to a PvE map than a strategic battle field. Look at any of the actual PvE maps. They’re just a series of individual events all spread out that don’t relate to each other in the slightest bit. And tactics are basically all you’re dealing with in PvE dungeons/fractals as well. “Everyone stand over here. When the boss does this, everyone do that. At stage 2, blah blah blah” But there’s never any thought of which bosses to attack in what order, how taking out one boss would affect another boss, or anything of the sort, because it’s all irrelevant. You take out the bosses in the order they’re presented to you, and taking out one has no affect on the rest of them. There’s no strategy involved, since it’s all basically on rails. The new borderland isn’t much different. Sure, you can decide which tower you want to attack, but… there’s nothing to be gained or lost from that tower that has any significant meaning. You’re not in a stronger or weaker position depending on which ones you hold and which ones you don’t. Holding the NW tower and SE tower is functionally the same as holding the two northern ones, or the two eastern ones, or the two western ones. Or even holding none on your own borderland, and just holding all 4 on an away borderland. It’s the same amount of PPT, no matter how you slice it. And that’s the only relevance the areas have, PPT, but that’s an artificial incentive. People pretty much have to force themselves to pretend to care about it. There’s no territorial relevance. And that’s the problem.

This post reminded me of why I used to love commanding PW TW wars of 80v80 (strange, no lag there..) where strategy against an evenly matched guild was paramount, and pushing one path would leave you potentially weaker elsewhere, as well as having to respond to the enemy moves. The map was a reasonable size to promote good battles and enemies were never hard to find.

The new BL maps just don’t feel like maps designed for large scale pvp, and the towers and keeps have been totally overdesigned.

coglin.1867:

Sanity Points.8073:

Too large, too gimmicky, too much PvE.

How do you suggest it is too large, when is literally the same size land mass as the old borderlands?

Alpine was a rectangle, in case you forgot. The new desert border is a full square larger than EB. Its about 50-70% larger than alpine in pure landmass. Then add another 20-30% below the desert. Also take into account that alpine focused combat below the citadel line, which meant that maybe 70% of alpine was used for most combat. That doesnt change landmass sure, but it make alot of difference.

So no. You are wrong.

Dislike. Too large and complex. I also hate desert and love snow so aesthetically I can’t stand them. I have had enough of dry top, so the main area of the game I enjoyed playing has essentially been ruined for me.

Dawdler.8521:

coglin.1867:

Sanity Points.8073:

Too large, too gimmicky, too much PvE.

How do you suggest it is too large, when is literally the same size land mass as the old borderlands?

Alpine was a rectangle, in case you forgot. The new desert border is a full square larger than EB. Its about 50-70% larger than alpine in pure landmass. Then add another 20-30% below the desert. Also take into account that alpine focused combat below the citadel line, which meant that maybe 70% of alpine was used for most combat. That doesnt change landmass sure, but it make alot of difference.

So no. You are wrong.

(Not to mention the vertical elements – 5-minute climbs add a lot of landmass, as landmass is not 2D.)

Once you are learning about how the new map works its WAY WAY better then the old one also very scout friendly (once the scouts know all secret routes), at the same time a lot of fights have been happening there and even in the middle part.
Guilds on deso are really enjoying the new maps and bit by bit are adjusting to it and are happy this change is made.

Anet should just focus on fixing the lag and the amount of good fights everywhere will be increasing like mad! I cant wait for this (did a couple of massive fights on the middle event just like Anet designed it for). Finally WvW is turning into something way more awesome then it was before (it was awesome before too though).

Also the new borderlands aint dead, there are still a lot of people busy in PvE and getting things done. I can say though bronze may be very dead but top tier gold is bit by bit getting back and getting more and more people playing again.
The people are there just have a tag or multiple tags and have fun!

Too dramatic of a change on many fronts. If ANET would have introduced a more gradual change that simply going full bore, reception might have been different.

Right now the maps are too convoluted.

No fights…

Sometimes over an hour before you run into an enemy.

Terrain to complex.

Too many gimmicks.

Also I disagree about the change to upgrading. We used to have a crew that ran about at night upgraded camps and keeps. The only beef we had was the silver it cost. But it gave some of us players a sense of purpose and we felt needed. Not anymore.

Also it seems psychically confused…whether it wants to be something out of Flash Gordon or something out of Diablo.

I personally don’t think ANET cares about the WvW community or they would have listened to feed back in BETA.

Really all they had to do were bug fixes and perhaps some changes to the past BL’s and we would have been happy. But I really think ANET wants to kill WvW or they simply think that they can combine PvE with WvW.

I only play PvP now…though I did get my HP’s but not in WvW. I enjoy PvE for what it is, but for me the end game is WvW.

Mythic tried the exact same thing with Trials of Atlantis with Dark Age of Camelot and took a solid realm versus realm game (and pardon the pun) sank it.

They forced WvW’ers to raid for better gear to survive in WvW. Mythic went bust shortly after. I am afraid GW2 is going to go the same route.

Too big of a change too quick.

BIG dislike and even worse, they are not playable for many, which game crashes since HoT and me and many other, which game crashes since yesterday, so it doesn’t even matter if i like it or not, i cant even play it xD

The new desert borderland map is very refreshing change. New places to learn to place siege (offensive and defensive), interesting verticality and very good for both small and large fights.
Places to engage in blob fights are the area on top of undercroft, the oasis, near the south camp, the plateaus near south of palace.

The fact that you can’t treb from one tower to keep makes if much more easier to defend objectives which was a really big problem in the old map and in EBG. It’s not a matter of preferences if you like it or not, it’s about improving defense and giving an extra chance to the outnumbered server to defend their objectives.

In the old map enemies would just steam roll woodhaven because of only reinforced gates and then place 3 superior trebs and hit garrison. If you were outnumbered it was impossible to do anything. Being outnumbered and also being hit by unfair trebuchets from the closest tower created a choking feeling of nothing you can do about it. Most people would just exit the game or go to another map.

I’m glad objectives are not that close and when they replace EBG I hope they create a similar map to desert borderlands.

Catalin.5341:

The fact that you can’t treb from one tower to keep makes if much more easier to defend objectives which was a really big problem in the old map and in EBG. It’s not a matter of preferences if you like it or not, it’s about improving defense and giving an extra chance to the outnumbered server to defend their objectives.

Yeah thats what anet thought but its wrong. By isolating garri they have actually made it more vulnerable if people were actually playing on the map cause there is no support from towers. Plus it removes the towers as strategic objectives completely. As a strategic wargame map its utterly terrible. As people have been saying the towers actually should have been made more important as strategic objectives and that in itself would have better aided defence of the major strategic objectives.

By isolating garri they have actually made it more vulnerable if people were actually playing on the map cause there is no support from towers.

Lol, so what support did Woodhaven and Cragtop provide to garri? They were only tools for the enemy to take your garri. If for instance you had Cragtop but you didn’t have garri, yeah you could treb garri yourself, from Cragtop. But let’s be serious here, the enemies don’t really expect to keep garrison for their own. Their only objective is to reset the upgrades.

@Catalin : And this is why you have to defend those tower and to take it back asap…
Actual north tower are useless, except ppt there is no difference in the tactical game on the map if you own the tower or not…. Same for keep as the side keep have WP only for the non home team.

And this is why you have to defend those tower and to take it back asap

Which made garri more vulnerable. What a.net decided to do in the desert maps is to make rampart much easier to defend by removing the treb shenanigans from north towers. So if one server is struggling, they could join on the home borderland map and try to at least defend their 3 main objectives (2 towers + keep).

This change is a boost to defending objectives, which is a good thing. Unless people loved attacking only and flipping objectives constantly.

The 2 north tower are now much far from spawn. Before they was between the spawn and Garri. Anet didn’t help to defend the 2 north towers…
Rampart is a real slaughter house, it’s really hard to break inner. But the tower…. We just don’t know what they do here…

Catalin.5341:

So if one server is struggling, they could join on the home borderland map and try to at least defend their 3 main objectives (2 towers + keep).

This change is a boost to defending objectives, which is a good thing. Unless people loved attacking only and flipping objectives constantly.

But… Why?

Towers and keeps are worth the same PPT regardless of T0 or T3. Protecting the waypoint upgrade mean nothing anymore, so neither garri or the towers are usefull for home border defense. Just go find 3 other keeps and towers instead that’s undefended. In fact, if your garri and towers are captured it would still serve you better to hold hills and bay. At least then no one can use waypoints. You can go after garri as an afterthought. You get the waypoint as soon as you cap it anyway.

Active defense is pointless and a waste of time.

So no, its not a bloody good thing.

@Dawdler

chuckles

Garri

I still like to refer to the old names too…

Quick…what position on the map?

Bay, Vale, and Briar

Hill and Lake…but which Lake?

Hehehe…

It’s like a WvW blankie, or binkie.

We know them so well…and they provide a source of comfort…these names…and now we have to be all grown up & leave it behind.

When I hear Rampart…I think of that old TV series called Emergency!

When the paramedics radio in & talk to Rampart Hospital.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0068067/

Anet didn’t help to defend the 2 north towers

I said rampart is easier to defend now because you can’t treb from towers. The 2 towers are just there for the ppt, same as the rest.

A.net did buff the defense for towers by:
- fortified gates
- 2 oils
- sentries at the only choke point to have access to the north side which also mark enemies on the map
- and of course auto-upgrades and abundance of supplies to be used for defensive siege and repairs.

Too bad that stupid laser event destroys 50% of your fortified gate, nearest wall and one of the oils. Talk about OP stuff.

lol, canon and oil are useless…. If ennemy zerg attack you can’t just use it….
It’s only usefull against small ennemy group… But very small….
And if you canon they just move to attack the wall….
And all those bad canon placement and wall or bridge over the gate are really anoying when they block you to cover the wall with cata against proxy cata…

Like UC… There is plenty of pillar or wall everywhere that make very difficult to build counter siege against cata or treb… Then you need to build more defensive siege because of all those wall….

Who will build a castle with no ligne of sight around the wall….
Keep should be in top of hills, not underground…. with clear ligne of sight around to be able to see the ennemy and not allow them to hide or place siege behind wall…

UC is underground, Palace is lost in middle of some strange canyon with wall impossible to defend (north outer wall, south inner).
The only keep who is good is Rampart, that you can really defend and who is not a stupid maze…

Catalin.5341:

And this is why you have to defend those tower and to take it back asap

Which made garri more vulnerable.

Hence why they have no strategic importance now.

What a.net decided to do in the desert maps is to make rampart much easier to defend by removing the treb shenanigans from north towers. So if one server is struggling, they could join on the home borderland map and try to at least defend their 3 main objectives (2 towers + keep).

The North towers gave defenders a platform to launch from and made it easier to take garri back, in all actually made it easier to defend the north section of home BL.

This change is a boost to defending objectives, which is a good thing. Unless people loved attacking only and flipping objectives constantly.

Funny with the way the BL is set up its made to flip objectives constantly even the north towers cause there are so many way to bypass the other servers.

Couldn’t have hurt to have both borderland maps; the new one isn’t very pretty, and is lacking the homeland feel the original had. If Anet had just added this map as a rotation borderland (the game already has that as a mechanic), it would have been fine. I fought with sword and spirit to defend my borderland! Now coding simply says “too bad, you can’t go back there”.

I LOVE the new maps. I see too many QQ babies “aww it’s too big”, “awe I don’t know the map” – guess what, you didn’t know any of the WVW maps when the game first launched either now did you. Suck it up and learn them!

Now, if you wanna kitten about SkySplitter, I’m all ears. I think it’s too OP just like ORBS were and similarly needs to be removed…

Even if you’re going to QQ about all the PVE a guild now has to do to get WVW upgrades, that’s technically not a WVW change, that’s a GAME/GUILD change. But I digress, I miss my supply +5 (WHY was that like the ONLY thing not “grandfathered” in LOL)

The only thing I’ll QQ about is that kitten SkySplitter, just get rid of that! Why do you (anet) feel the need to put stuff in that just gives already larger groups an advantage, as if being a larger group isn’t itself an advantage!

Besides that, get your lazy kitten s out there and explore the new maps. They’re really NOT that bad. Learn them just like once upon a time you learned the original BLs.

On another note, this doesn’t affect me personally since I’m from a T8 server >.> but, I do agree they could have left the old BL,s AND added these BLs. I would at least think that may combat the “zerginess” of the larger servers, since there’d be a LOT more land to cover. Just imagine, having EB, and SIX BL maps! There’s be SO much more to do, SO much more land to cover! (and hopefully in turn at least a little less “zergy”!)

So here ANET, here’s your answer: get rid of SkySplitter, and keep ALL BL’s active simultaneously!

At the same time, I suppose I should not complain that all you nacy’s don’t want to “learn” the new BL’s and just want to QQ for your old maps back, because the BL’s ARE nice and empty. I rolled an ENTIRE BL with just THREE people, INCLUDING me and it stayed that way all night, was still that way even after I slept! If that’s what “ruins it for you” (three people being able to roll a whole BL on their own) then get your QQ butt out there and learn the maps (and stop me/us) !!!!!!!!!!

I’ve played alot on the new maps (Mostly becuase veteran daily + when commander jumps there from EB) But I can’t say i like them more becuase i play them more. They annoy me more and more and are just dusty big complicated irritating maps.

I would pay to play the old maps.

sparc.3649:

I LOVE the new maps. I rolled an ENTIRE BL with just THREE people, INCLUDING me and it stayed that way all night

Dude, you’re PvE’ing.

Dislike. Worse than DT

sparc.3649:

I LOVE the new maps. I see too many QQ babies “aww it’s too big”, “awe I don’t know the map” – guess what, you didn’t know any of the WVW maps when the game first launched either now did you. Suck it up and learn them!

Now, if you wanna kitten about SkySplitter, I’m all ears. I think it’s too OP just like ORBS were and similarly needs to be removed…

Even if you’re going to QQ about all the PVE a guild now has to do to get WVW upgrades, that’s technically not a WVW change, that’s a GAME/GUILD change. But I digress, I miss my supply +5 (WHY was that like the ONLY thing not “grandfathered” in LOL)

The only thing I’ll QQ about is that kitten SkySplitter, just get rid of that! Why do you (anet) feel the need to put stuff in that just gives already larger groups an advantage, as if being a larger group isn’t itself an advantage!

Besides that, get your lazy kitten s out there and explore the new maps. They’re really NOT that bad. Learn them just like once upon a time you learned the original BLs.

On another note, this doesn’t affect me personally since I’m from a T8 server >.> but, I do agree they could have left the old BL,s AND added these BLs. I would at least think that may combat the “zerginess” of the larger servers, since there’d be a LOT more land to cover. Just imagine, having EB, and SIX BL maps! There’s be SO much more to do, SO much more land to cover! (and hopefully in turn at least a little less “zergy”!)

So here ANET, here’s your answer: get rid of SkySplitter, and keep ALL BL’s active simultaneously!

At the same time, I suppose I should not complain that all you nacy’s don’t want to “learn” the new BL’s and just want to QQ for your old maps back, because the BL’s ARE nice and empty. I rolled an ENTIRE BL with just THREE people, INCLUDING me and it stayed that way all night, was still that way even after I slept! If that’s what “ruins it for you” (three people being able to roll a whole BL on their own) then get your QQ butt out there and learn the maps (and stop me/us) !!!!!!!!!!

If you think the maps are empty because everybody is too dumb and lazy then I have a bridge to sell you. Then you brag about PvD but tucked away in there is a plea for people to come play with you and quite frankly, that made me a little sad.

they suck, no one complained about the older ones and everyone liked the older alpine ones. Why the hell have the alpine not been reinstated yet?

I like it but as an addition to the old map, not a replacement.

I don’t see why they can’t have Alpine borderlands and Desert borderlands always available in some variety.

gennyt.3428:

sparc.3649:

I LOVE the new maps. I see too many QQ babies “aww it’s too big”, “awe I don’t know the map” – guess what, you didn’t know any of the WVW maps when the game first launched either now did you. Suck it up and learn them!

Now, if you wanna kitten about SkySplitter, I’m all ears. I think it’s too OP just like ORBS were and similarly needs to be removed…

Even if you’re going to QQ about all the PVE a guild now has to do to get WVW upgrades, that’s technically not a WVW change, that’s a GAME/GUILD change. But I digress, I miss my supply +5 (WHY was that like the ONLY thing not “grandfathered” in LOL)

The only thing I’ll QQ about is that kitten SkySplitter, just get rid of that! Why do you (anet) feel the need to put stuff in that just gives already larger groups an advantage, as if being a larger group isn’t itself an advantage!

Besides that, get your lazy kitten s out there and explore the new maps. They’re really NOT that bad. Learn them just like once upon a time you learned the original BLs.

On another note, this doesn’t affect me personally since I’m from a T8 server >.> but, I do agree they could have left the old BL,s AND added these BLs. I would at least think that may combat the “zerginess” of the larger servers, since there’d be a LOT more land to cover. Just imagine, having EB, and SIX BL maps! There’s be SO much more to do, SO much more land to cover! (and hopefully in turn at least a little less “zergy”!)

So here ANET, here’s your answer: get rid of SkySplitter, and keep ALL BL’s active simultaneously!

At the same time, I suppose I should not complain that all you nacy’s don’t want to “learn” the new BL’s and just want to QQ for your old maps back, because the BL’s ARE nice and empty. I rolled an ENTIRE BL with just THREE people, INCLUDING me and it stayed that way all night, was still that way even after I slept! If that’s what “ruins it for you” (three people being able to roll a whole BL on their own) then get your QQ butt out there and learn the maps (and stop me/us) !!!!!!!!!!

If you think the maps are empty because everybody is too dumb and lazy then I have a bridge to sell you. Then you brag about PvD but tucked away in there is a plea for people to come play with you and quite frankly, that made me a little sad.

I only “enjoyed” it (as you put it ‘bragged’ about it), to the extent that I was doing what I was supposed to be doing, as in, what WvW is all about – taking objectives. So while that to me IS/WAS/will be fun, it /would/ be more fun if people would remove the stick’s from their rear ends and come enjoy the new maps with people like me…

I have fun in WvW no matter what. Living, dying, killing, being killed, taking objectives, defending objectives, losing objectives – it doesn’t matter what exactly is happening, if I’m in WVW I am having fun!

To hear people “whine” about it is actually kind of funny to me. If it has too much PVP then go to PVE. If it has “too much PVE” then go to PVP. WVW is SUPPOSED to have the mixture of both PVE and PVP in the format of RvR (RvRvR)…

So yes, if I’m bangin’ down your gate/wall. I’m having fun, period. Whether you show up to defend or not. If you come to bust down my gate/wall I’m going to do whatever it takes to defend that structure of mine. Enter the MIX of PvE and PvP… in a “RvR” style. WvW is about as good as it gets to me, and IS my “endgame”!

After reading countless posts on the dbl’s (or should I say the hate of them), it seems that I am one of they few that actually like them but they do need some reworking.

I for one WOULD NOT want the old ones back. If I wanted to run around in a zerg I will go to EBG (which is why I quit playing WvW the first time).

The new bl’s present a new and tactical way to play providing one can think out of the box. I have seen a lot of 4-5 man groups take t3 keeps and towers but that has to to more with a lower player base.

A change in scoring needs to be done. I think the further a point is away from your spawn area the more points it should be worth for your side. example: your south camps/ towers are worth 5ppt unlike the north camps/towers worth 2 for the home bl the reversed for the attacking bls making them try and take and hold the upper areas not just the areas near their spawn. This would help the flow of battles going back and forth and not just ignoring them in favor of keeps also this would make for using waypoint upgrades more feasible for defense of further areas and not just mainly used for keeps.

Better rewards are a must. I got my scribe to 400 but I lost track how much gold I had to use to get there plus being in a small guild I had to do a lot of grinding in PvE to get the upgrades our guild leader wanted which took away from being WvWvW. If you want all these tactics, drops need to be added to WvW so us “elite” few scribes can play WvW to help with upgrades instead of devoting time to PvE as well to make them.

The whole Skysplitter event is lukewarm to me. Unless there are more people playing this event is really not worth the effort. The concept is good if your side is trying to do multiple strikes at one time but with empty maps it makes for boring caps.

Dislike, and I also dislike EotM.

dislike/hate/ all the new wvw gimmicks that came with hot. eotm was a fail and anet didnt listen.

Hate DBL and HATE EoTM maps due to terrian, ( elevation, chokepoints wastes time with indirect routes and terrible building placement, stupid putting camps up ramps ect.. as well) Hate EoTM and DBL gimmicks. Think they would be better off sending DBL to EoTM in their own game mode instead and design maps that keep you in nonstop ,challenging strategic, fun large scale PvP action the entire time you are on them.

TBH, though this is the least of my concerns, I hated the look of Silver waste because of the desert landscaping and when I saw that they brought that same ugly theme into WvW I was disappointed. BUT that is just cosmetic/ skin, I just want the map playable where you spend more time in PvP action than running around aimlessly trying to get to it regardless of the map skin. direct routes flatter maps strategic building placement, fast camp access.

As for " WvW map skins" I like greenery, flowers rainbows and sunshine.. happy places.

lil devils x.6071:

Hate DBL and HATE EoTM maps due to terrian, ( elevation, chokepoints wastes time with indirect routes and terrible building placement, stupid putting camps up ramps ect.. as well) Hate EoTM and DBL gimmicks. Think they would be better off sending DBL to EoTM in their own game mode instead and design maps that keep you in nonstop ,challenging strategic, fun large scale PvP action the entire time you are on them.

TBH, though this is the least of my concerns, I hated the look of Silver waste because of the desert landscaping and when I saw that they brought that same ugly theme into WvW I was disappointed. BUT that is just cosmetic/ skin, I just want the map playable where you spend more time in PvP action than running around aimlessly trying to get to it regardless of the map skin. direct routes flatter maps strategic building placement, fast camp access.

As for " WvW map skins" I like greenery, flowers rainbows and sunshine.. happy places.

There is direct access to camps in the DBL’s, no difference than in ABL’s. Each force has access to camps close to their spawns. As far as getting around, the only thing that could be removed in the DBL’s are the Fences by the keeps and the all the shrines (PvE stuff). That would make it easier to get around.

Join Underworld …
if you love to bang empty doors and farm empty towers.

cause thats basically what we do there… good xp ^^

Dusty Moon.4382:

lil devils x.6071:

Hate DBL and HATE EoTM maps due to terrian, ( elevation, chokepoints wastes time with indirect routes and terrible building placement, stupid putting camps up ramps ect.. as well) Hate EoTM and DBL gimmicks. Think they would be better off sending DBL to EoTM in their own game mode instead and design maps that keep you in nonstop ,challenging strategic, fun large scale PvP action the entire time you are on them.

TBH, though this is the least of my concerns, I hated the look of Silver waste because of the desert landscaping and when I saw that they brought that same ugly theme into WvW I was disappointed. BUT that is just cosmetic/ skin, I just want the map playable where you spend more time in PvP action than running around aimlessly trying to get to it regardless of the map skin. direct routes flatter maps strategic building placement, fast camp access.

As for " WvW map skins" I like greenery, flowers rainbows and sunshine.. happy places.

There is direct access to camps in the DBL’s, no difference than in ABL’s. Each force has access to camps close to their spawns. As far as getting around, the only thing that could be removed in the DBL’s are the Fences by the keeps and the all the shrines (PvE stuff). That would make it easier to get around.

And actually there is a way around those barricades, if you’re willing to take the scenic route…

dislike is not a strong enough word for the new borderlands, can we have a third option?

Dusty Moon.4382:

lil devils x.6071:

Hate DBL and HATE EoTM maps due to terrian, ( elevation, chokepoints wastes time with indirect routes and terrible building placement, stupid putting camps up ramps ect.. as well) Hate EoTM and DBL gimmicks. Think they would be better off sending DBL to EoTM in their own game mode instead and design maps that keep you in nonstop ,challenging strategic, fun large scale PvP action the entire time you are on them.

TBH, though this is the least of my concerns, I hated the look of Silver waste because of the desert landscaping and when I saw that they brought that same ugly theme into WvW I was disappointed. BUT that is just cosmetic/ skin, I just want the map playable where you spend more time in PvP action than running around aimlessly trying to get to it regardless of the map skin. direct routes flatter maps strategic building placement, fast camp access.

As for " WvW map skins" I like greenery, flowers rainbows and sunshine.. happy places.

There is direct access to camps in the DBL’s, no difference than in ABL’s. Each force has access to camps close to their spawns. As far as getting around, the only thing that could be removed in the DBL’s are the Fences by the keeps and the all the shrines (PvE stuff). That would make it easier to get around.

Direct access to camps = ( no camps on ramps, many routes to and from camps, and have them close to objectives, direct route means straight line to them to get there fastest way possible . Personally I think even EBG’s camps are too far and should be closer to keeps.)
Flattening it entirely, allowing for every objective to be able to be attacked from any direction in many different ways, adding more actual objectives or removing the space between objectives, removing all the NPC’s, shrines and environmental garbage at this point would be a much better option. The only place there should be portals is going into a building. Actually.. it would be better to throw it into EoTM and make a new map that doesn’t look anything like that ugly map. (I refuse to go to EoTM due to it’s asinine gimmickery, that way I never have to see that atrocious thing again.) If they could just take out the DBL and put in a Courtyard styled WvW map it would be better. The less gimmicks the better.

Another thing, it is bad enough they make you run like you are standing still on this game ( after playing other games it gets more and more annoying every time I come back here and you move so annoyingly slow it is like you play this game in slow motion) To make your character move so slow, AND put a bunch of empty space in the game in between objectives makes it far from enjoyable, it makes you fall asleep while auto running off a cliff. Moving slow + too much space in between objectives = BORING. Instead it should be fast moving and nonstop objectives, no empty space or NPC’s. Games where players ARE the “keep lords” are so much more entertaining.

Its an amazing map with many interesting elements. In fact it reminds me of places I’ve been in real life.

I love the creative stuff like the stealth sands, the air jumps. the beauty of the oasis, but the keep designs need to be a little more straight forward for both the enemy, and those that defend them. Its too scrambled.

Again its a great map, but if I wanted to spend time hiking thru the desert I’d plan for it when I have a few days off rather than when I only have a little bit of time before my kids get home from school.

I’m in WvW to engage in a “war like setting”…Burning an excessive amount of time just to get on the other side of the map is not entertaining. Its not what makes me invest my time and money into WvW. Someone did have great vision when they created it, however they lost sight of the very real world constraints of a players time, and what we find entertaining about WvW that keeps us coming back for more.

Also: If there is to be no gliding in wvw then yes flatten the map, but if gliding is to be introduced into WvW then a three-four lvl map would make more sense.

DISLIKE

IF it was good, there was no need for this entire thread and the paragraphs above
I’ve spent over 5000 hours of total gameplay in WvW – ( ONLY )

I think my opinion matters as a HARDCORE WvW’er more than half of the PVE’ers in this thread.

Just my 2 cents

NotKalkz.1286:

DISLIKE

IF it was good, there was no need for this entire thread and the paragraphs above
I’ve spent over 5000 hours of total gameplay in WvW – ( ONLY )

I think my opinion matters as a HARDCORE WvW’er more than half of the PVE’ers in this thread.

Just my 2 cents

Ya know everyone who plays WvW is entitled to an opinion, and many of us love the WvW game mode in spite of its many issues. In the end all of our money holds the same value.

For me its hard to be callous. I played WvW full tilt when I first started. I was ate up with WvW, but I can see that the new map is also not working.

On the other hand I am also very aware of the talent and time that went into making that very dynamic map in a 3D program along with all the physics, and texturing.

I know they tried very hard to please this community. The map has its issues in the WvW sense, but it is not shoddy work by no means.

The map is gorgeous and would be great for PvE map (Elona hype!). For me, it’s not the theme of the map, its the layout and the annoying gimmicks. Attempts fail, ideas and products get binned, the desert BL isn’t the first or last. It happens and there are lessons to be learned.

Kamara.4187:

NotKalkz.1286:

DISLIKE

IF it was good, there was no need for this entire thread and the paragraphs above
I’ve spent over 5000 hours of total gameplay in WvW – ( ONLY )

I think my opinion matters as a HARDCORE WvW’er more than half of the PVE’ers in this thread.

Just my 2 cents

Ya know everyone who plays WvW is entitled to an opinion, and many of us love the WvW game mode in spite of its many issues. In the end all of our money holds the same value.

For me its hard to be callous. I played WvW full tilt when I first started. I was ate up with WvW, but I can see that the new map is also not working.

On the other hand I am also very aware of the talent and time that went into making that very dynamic map in a 3D program along with all the physics, and texturing.

I know they tried very hard to please this community. The map has its issues in the WvW sense, but it is not shoddy work by no means.

It’s a work of art.

But it’s just not practical.

Kamara.4187:

On the other hand I am also very aware of the talent and time that went into making that very dynamic map in a 3D program along with all the physics, and texturing.

I know they tried very hard to please this community. The map has its issues in the WvW sense, but it is not shoddy work by no means.

We don’t care the money or the time that was needed to make this map and all this change. It’s because your change cost you a lot of work that this change are good !
Anet was stupid to make all those change without consulting the community.

The problem now that is that the game mode is dead, Anet killed WvW.
But because for some ego they can’t say that and continu to force players to play in this broken game mode. But a lot of players have just leaved.

HoT and the new map have killed the core wvw players (scout, roaming). Those players where the only one on alpine BL at off peak to make the job and hold the map. Now those players are no more in the game and the map is always empty.

You can bring all your casual players, but if there is no veteran in the game to have some permanent presence then your game will die.
WvW should not be behind kittening grind wall, where you need to do tons of pve to be able to upgrade your guild.

So much players cry about the upgrade cost for the keep, but now it’s the guild upgrade who cost lot more ! The old upgrade system was just fine ! Small guild for the scout was able to claim keep and apply bonus…

Bah, I have say those thing so many times. I’m just sad to see the game that I have loved to become a big piece of kitten because Anet think that wvw is pve, and because so much casual players want the game to run alone without any player interaction…

At start i did not like them becouse i found them too big and difficult to run. Now that i know them a little better i like new Desert borders really much . I hope they will not restore those ugly alpin borders .

PierPiero.9142:

At start i did not like them becouse i found them too big and difficult to run. Now that i know them a little better i like new Desert borders really much . I hope they will not restore those ugly alpin borders .

^ THIS ^ OMG THIS!

If people would get off their lazy kittens and go LEARN them (like I’ve been saying from the start) – they too would like them!

I agree, don’t restore those crappy old boring BL maps or that will be the final nail in the coffin of WvW!

sparc.3649:

If people would get off their lazy kittens and go LEARN them (like I’ve been saying from the start) – they too would like them!

yes, we are hundred players who are completly dumb, unable to learn a map, and unable to learn new game mechanics…
Or maybe the map and all the new hot stuff are really a piece of kitten…

I dont like anything about the new map, i miss the old one. Didnt Anet say they were gonna rotate the old and new maps? Well rotate the old map back for a change…its been months now. I repeat…i do NOT like the new map whatssoever.

Sich.7103:

sparc.3649:

If people would get off their lazy kittens and go LEARN them (like I’ve been saying from the start) – they too would like them!

yes, we are hundred players who are completly dumb, unable to learn a map, and unable to learn new game mechanics…
Or maybe the map and all the new hot stuff are really a piece of kitten…

The reasons ic players wanting old bl is:
Easy and faster karma/ppt train or because new map has less places to hide when taking castle fails and start trerb wars, since no tower is near to hide or run away, this map is fine, but needs a few fixes in design tho.

The new map can be easilly improved, but since players need more effort well… most gw2 players hate effort.

And sorry by being so obtuse, people should give feedback on ideas how to improve the new map, asking for a better castle layout if possible, add more 2 or 3 towers, change how waypoints work etc, not just say new map out and want the old easy BL.
I fear when Anet launches the “new” wvw stuf will not be what players want either…i dont see much feedback in both ways.

Aeolus.3615:

Sich.7103:

sparc.3649:

If people would get off their lazy kittens and go LEARN them (like I’ve been saying from the start) – they too would like them!

yes, we are hundred players who are completly dumb, unable to learn a map, and unable to learn new game mechanics…
Or maybe the map and all the new hot stuff are really a piece of kitten…

The reasons ic players wanting old bl is:
Easy and faster karma/ppt train or because new map has less places to hide when taking castle fails and start trerb wars, since no tower is near to hide or run away, this map is fine, but needs a few fixes in design tho.

The new map can be easilly improved, but since players need more effort well… most gw2 players hate effort.

And sorry by being so obtuse, people should give feedback on ideas how to improve the new map, asking for a better castle layout if possible, add more 2 or 3 towers, change how waypoints work etc, not just say new map out and want the old easy BL.
I fear when Anet launches the “new” wvw stuf will not be what players want either…i dont see much feedback in both ways.

You got that right, all they wanna do is run in a massive blob/zerg, not have to “think” at ALL, and mash their “1” key… I win 11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111