Guild Wars 2

I was going to write a more detailed post running over the various flaws of WvWvW but I decided to come to the community first.

I spend a great deal of time talking with my server community (Stormbluff Isle) about how WvWvW could be a better experience, and we’ve discussed a lot of issues.

Let’s come together and post our top flaws!

pointless thread. anet does not care about what the community wants for wvw. i have insider knowledge that they are currently investing all of their dev power to revert culling back to its original state in wvw

meep.2601:

pointless thread. anet does not care about what the community wants for wvw. i have insider knowledge that they are currently investing all of their dev power to revert culling back to its original state in wvw

Some poeple… just need a swift falcon kick, right to the jaw.

The complainers.
Definately

grifflyman.8102:

Let’s come together and post our top flaws!

How bout no?

Awesome job guys, thanks for the great feedback!

How the outmanned buff is actually an “attack me now” sign for the enemy since they can see when you have it.
How effective full map zerging is.
How there is still no ascended gear.
No new unique armor skins for wvw.
Skill lag.

Just some stuff off the top of my head.

i main a ranger… which is stand alone a flaw…

but my biggest issue is the skill lag… everytime i log in to game the first thing i want to do after a few fights is to log out… and my “log in” will, gets rarer and rarer…

LetoII.3782:

The complainers.
Definately

^This

The biggest problem with WvW is all the constant moaning.

TallDan.6350:

LetoII.3782:

The complainers.
Definately

^This

The biggest problem with WvW is all the constant moaning.

^ This

The biggest problem with WvW is all the constant moaning.

The class balance is getting worse and worse.

kingcragus.6810:

TallDan.6350:

LetoII.3782:

The complainers.
Definately

^This

The biggest problem with WvW is all the constant moaning.

^ This

The biggest problem with WvW is all the constant moaning.

I agree 100%

Skill lag could use some tweaking though….

Just skill lag. I don’t care about special skins or anything. The lag just kills me.

The ppl who post on the forums asking for nerfs on classes

This thread is not constructive in any way. Threads made for the sake of complaining are against the goa… I mean CoC and quite frankly, pointless. There is enough complaining to go around in the Suggestions forum and random threads throughout this one.

MrChandMan.8253:

The ppl who post on the forums asking for nerfs on classes

Anet, please nerf Tarnished Coast. Thank you.

A lot of issues IMO, but the biggest one is rewarding all types of WvW play. Currently, only being in a big zerg offers any decent rewards, or killing in general. Yak Escorting/Defending do not offer anything. While people still do it, it is discouraging to the people who put in that effort to not be properly rewarded for it on a personal level. Give us some bags or WXP please to balance it out.

Shared loot and rewards, which directly encourages zerging.

Shared loot and event/kill rewards works in PvE because of scaling.

There is no scaling in WvW, and thus loot and event/kill rewards should not be shared, but split.

1. Skill lag.
2. Lack of cosmetics and rewards for the WvW community.
3. The WvW progression is poorly designed. Its just a tag and run game. Kill someone solo or kill them with a 100 people, you still get the same amount of Wxp for that player, making zerging players progress way too fast in the ranks, making ranks not matter at all. Ranks was supposed to show your skill/experience in WvW, but it just marks the better tagger. Meeting rank 70+ players that just goes down without effort is just sad.

~needing to press F to pick stuff up when i should be fighting.

~Guild Wars that don’t have official Guild Wars

~Guild Wars that is better known as Zerg Wars

~Fighting the SAME SERVER for eternity

~Point system doesn’t ring a bell in me because 1 day after reset, the server with the highest coverage is ahead by a few thousand points. A few more days and it’s a runaway victory.

~same scenary and maps

~I became a PvDoor champion (a new title is needed for number of pvdoors)

~Skill lag in mega fights

~Stealth is not OP but it’s unfair

~Need more unique armor/wep/cape skins for WvW , there need to be an identifier to guilds. i am not talking about kiddy flags on the back… how about some real COOLKitty Capes that make you look awesome

~Maps are too huge in my opinion, can be thin down to 3/4 size

~Waypoints are useless because they are always contested. the way upgrading works is also discouraging.

~killing people gives the most exp, escorting yaks/repairing etc gives you meagre returns. we are encouraged to zerg but discourage to do other meaningful things.

~traps… GTFO… especially stealth trap…

~Most importantly, there is no impetus to play. there is no competition. before you enter a fight you probably already know who will win, who will lose.

- The AoE cap
- 5 ppl limit on groups. It should be 30 instead of just 5.
- Unable to see other players than commanders on the big map.
- Sieges are to powerfull. Specially the arrow carts.
- Alot of terrain issues which makes many places unwalkable.
- Annoying mobs spread out all over the map, which allows the players to rally on them.
- Downed state. This benifits larger forces even more.
- Lots of skill lag and skill bugs.
- Siege despawn. This is just silly because it adds a siege refreshing chore. Which makes the game even more boring.
- Still no ascended vendor.
- The npc champions inside of keeps is boring to fight and very predictable.
– The new rank system makes it even more unfair for beginners. I hope they won’t add anymore of that.
- Supply mistakes. When you have 15 supply and reapairning a gate or wall, you asuddnly stop repairing at 5 supply, and if you start repairing again you won’t be able to use more than four supply. And then you are left with one supply which u cannot use.
- Auto loot doesen’t work as auto loot is supposed to do.
- Same f-ing f-key for everything. Interact with npc’s and loot.

Siege within a structure being used to siege other structures.
Overall class balance
-Things like AE not being handed out evenly between the classes.
-About half the classes having no use in the current zerg meta.
-Some classes being exceptionally strong at roaming being justification for them being awful at everything else.
Poor map design encouraging nothing but zerg play.
No real depth to the WvW, PvP, or class systems.
Sieging is boring.
WvW is boring.
No new meaningful content in 8 months.

- Lack of reward
- hackers
- Lack of reward
- Boring stale maps
- Lack of reward
- No ascended gear
- Lack of reward
- Too many gold sinks
- Lack of reward
- Skill lag
- Skill queueing/dodge queueing
- Lack of reward

fishball.7204:

- Lack of reward
- hackers
- Lack of reward
- Boring stale maps
- Lack of reward
- No ascended gear
- Lack of reward
- Too many gold sinks
- Lack of reward
- Skill lag
- Skill queueing/dodge queueing
- Lack of reward

Basically this ^
Here. Have my +1

Nerf aoe
Nerf/remove downed state
Fix this kittening lag
Introduce acended gear in wvw
New maps

There is no reason at all for a server to defend anything…WvW is pretty much exclusively about active player uptime. Each server takes their turns trading camps, towers, and keeps, because with significant difference in player numbers at any given time, one side will always be able to zerg the whole map in little time.
Besides technical gameplay issues (lag and queuing), the mechanics need to change to encourage players to spread out. How about a server buff based upon the number of owned camps? Defending players on the walls in keeps and towers should get buffs for projectile attacks. Make the keeps inherently tougher, but give the attackers the ability to overcome the defensive advantage with buffs from capturing (and keeping) supply campus and towers. Set a character limit for each tier (this could simply be the number of players on the server with the most active players in WvW), and during server downtime replace absent players with veteran NPCs that can follow commanders.

Green keep in Eternal Battlegrounds never shows how much supply is in the depot.
And half the time none of the Siege Masters work anywhere.

Timelord.8190:

- The AoE cap

If I could choose ONE complaint to be fixed, it would be this one. Limiting AOE ensures that everyone just runs around as tightly packed as possible, not needing even one bit of strategy, just overwhelming numbers and the ability to repeatedly hit ‘1’ and sticking on a commander. Boring beyond belief, let those huge groups whom stand in AOE deserve the damage and get killed for being utterly stupid.

No auto-loot. 15 character message.

Add protection for people on oil/cannons. Make cannons shoot faster at 5th point in mastery.

Fortify gates.

Golem mastery ¹ Increased health, ² Increased movement speed, ³ Gain ability: sprint (every 30s, for 3s), ⁴ Immune to movement impairment.

Repair blueprint siege.

The biggest game changer right now is still night-capping. Playing when the other team is extremely low in numbers to clear the map. The only way I can think to reduce this would be if a home server’s map is the one that’s out-manned, they should let far less enemies to queue on the map until they lose out-manned.

The grub and tree spirit do not make any sense in a pvp environment. Have them roam the entire map and be aggro. Also, buff the chests on them to always have at least 10 badges. And make the chest a daily reward like the puzzles.

unable to kick people from party

- Map size/layout – Everything is too close together leading to siege wars where one fortified position is trebbing another. They should take the current maps and double their size, with the same number of hard points. As it is, one giant zerg ball can respond to anything on the map in a relatively short amount of time, because it only takes a few minutes to run from one side to the other. In Planetside, some bases had more space between them than an entire borderland. It lead to huge open field tug-o-war battles as each faction attempted to push on the other.

- Lack of battle lines – Any point on the map can be captured at any time. There is no front line that concentrates the fighting. In Planetside, you had the lattice system, where you needed a link to one of your own structures to capture an enemy base. In WAR, you had the campaign where you needed to capture each zone in succession to make a push into the next one.

- Limited spawn locations – with the current map size, this is actually ok. If the maps were enlarged to improve gameplay, I would like to see a system similar to Planetside where you can respawn at the nearest keep/tower, but it costs 10 supply from that structure. You wouldn’t be able to waypoint there freely, only when killed within a limited radius.

The biggest flaw is that it encourages giant server zerging. (not your normal zerg, but when an entire BL just masses up in one giant blob running from keep to keep pressing 1)

I feel like this is also the root cause for many of the other “flaws” and should be addressed first.

rmBossa.4621:

The biggest flaw is that it encourages giant server zerging. (not your normal zerg, but when an entire BL just masses up in one giant blob running from keep to keep pressing 1)

I feel like this is also the root cause for many of the other “flaws” and should be addressed first.

Agreed. So, the question reverts to why the zergs form. This is a social game designed around players cooperating, which pushes players to group. Zergs provide herd protection, and as others have noted, provide better loot because players can tag multiple enemies. It is also difficult for players to capture the keeps without a zerg, and the hourly fluctuations of server player numbers places a large emphasis on rushing to capture keeps when a server’s uptime begins since they are almost always lost during server downtime.

Keeps need to be strengthened against zerg rushes with siege to allow outmanned defenders a real chance to hold a fort during server downtime. Whenever I’ve played WvW, keeps are usually captured in less than 10 minutes… camps and towers in less than 5. I have honestly never seen an evenly-matched keep siege. Damage and protection buffs for defenders on the wall, Vet NPC squads that can be sent out to defend the keep, increased supply cost for siege weapons, etc. Keeps should have more defenses – perhaps place towers within keeps to provide multiple tiers of defense. Maybe flame-shooting traps could be placed in choke points inside the keep to break up a zerg if it enters.

Attackers need to have a good reason to capture and, more importantly, defend supply camps and towers. Perhaps players can receive buffs based upon how many their server holds, or the defensive keep buffs can be tied to the number of camps the defender holds. Imagine if a server-wide zerg is sieging a keep – the defenders could instead go guerilla to recapture camps and towers to weaken the siege to the point of being pointless. Players from both sides will be encouraged to spread out to defend/capture camps and towers to keep the advantage for their side.

The removal of the AOE limit would reduce the herd protection that zergs provide, but this may be unavoidable due to technical constraints.

Server population cycling can.really only be solved by massive, useful outmanned buffs or spawning NPCs to take the place of absent players. NPC squads could spawn at camps, towers, and keeps based upon how outmanned the server is. They would defend the location, and commanders could recruit them to follow them into battle elsewhere. If they die and the server is still outmanned, they would respawn just like players.

Essentially, each campaign to capture a keep should feel like a PvE meta-event with multiple steps. And just like them, capturing a keep should provide similar rewards – chests. Better loot would pull more endgame players from farming dragons in PvE.

Players really have two motivations – surviving and loot. Right now its safer and more profitable to hide in a zerg. Until ANet finds a way to change that, the zergs will continue to rule WvW.

Lack of body blocking.

Dirtyrich is correct. All large scale battles benefit from formations or zergs. It’s the same reason wild game move in packs. WvW was never designed with a solo playstyle. ANET, if they could, should work on removing skill lag even further and possibly adding more objectives and more players to each map. Trying to eliminate people from grouping doesn’t make sense on any level. If that’s not your style of play, try one of the many custom arenas for deathmatches.

CHIPS.6018:

Lack of body blocking.

If you think skill lag is bad now try adding collision detection and see what happens.

LetoII.3782:

The complainers.
Definately

I know we don’t always see eye to eye but you’re spot on here, Letoll.

Biggest problem with WvW is WvW. If they did not create WvW there would be nothing to complain about. So remove WvW and you have yourself one problem solved.

1. Insane gold sink. Why is WvW the non profitable game mode so expensive to play? Welcome to t8-9 u can spend 20g in a moment

2. Should the open time be 24/7? Night capping has biggest role in wvw points. Maybe some 2-4 hours when wvw map not open

3. Why are we doing this? Pve players get all best gear all best skins all the money in the world all the achievements for killing dumb mobs. WvW players get spikes and repair bills.

4. WvW is gw2’s future. It’s not possible to keep adding pve stuff that meets the very high demand. WvW goes on and on. Make us reason to there. Killing a player should always be more profitable than autoattack afk world boss.

5. Achievements? Ultimate destroyer will take me around 25 years. Anet i admire ur courage how long u think the game will stay alive but for reall?…

Siege despawning.

Also, upgrades shouldn’t cost gold, just supplies.

Scleameth.6809:

Biggest problem with WvW is WvW. If they did not create WvW there would be nothing to complain about. So remove WvW and you have yourself one problem solved.

If they remove WvW the game will have very short history if u mean by this Pve brainless running around and Spvp are the only gamemodes. WvW is fine idea and backbone of gw2 when ppl get tired of grind and farm non active world bosses.

ikiturso.4026:

Scleameth.6809:

Biggest problem with WvW is WvW. If they did not create WvW there would be nothing to complain about. So remove WvW and you have yourself one problem solved.

If they remove WvW the game will have very short history if u mean by this Pve brainless running around and Spvp are the only gamemodes. WvW is fine idea and backbone of gw2 when ppl get tired of grind and farm non active world bosses.

Heh, I was just being sarcastic. I think as long as WvW exist there will always be gripes about what does/does not exist in the game and how it can be improved.
I agree that WvW could probably be the game’s greatest asset and perhaps a voting poll should be opened by Anet before deploying any new content. Let us (the early WvWers) decide which content they should add/remove from WvW in order to offer a better experience to the players in years to come.

1.) Skill lag.

2.) The “Rubber-banding” phenomenon

3.) Shagging classes/class specs (Hello, Glamour/Condition Mesmers), based on PvP logic, yet retaining other “Non-PvP” elements (i.e. Crit-damage levels, nourishments, etc.)
Either it’s “PvP” or not … enough of this half-arsing about.

4.) Repeated BL maps. I’d like to think, given time (from release, which is almost always a rush thing for a game company these days …), we could see 3 distinct BLs.

5.) Hacks and Exploits what should’ve been K.O.ed by now, but still exist. Meh >_<

6.) People’s obsession with nerfing. Bloody hells, just buff weaker stuff to be competitive, and quit the QQ. Thank you.

The biggest problem with WvWvW is the population issue. At the moment if you cannot field at least 80% of the numbers the top team is fielding you are going to lose. So although many of these other points are valid, none of them will change the fact that the population imbalance (coverage wars) is the real issue.

There is a silver lining of hope however that could potentially fix the population problem.

Scalability.

In PvE bosses scale in difficulty to meet the number of individuals during the encounter. Why not make the NPC guards scale to meet the number of players engaging in the encounter?

Example…
Attack a supply camp with 5 people and you are on equal ground.
Attack a supply camp with 50 people and the damage and hit points of the guards goes up by 10 times.
This would make it possible for a small group of 5 to defend the camp against the zerg and would encourage the zerg to break up.
To giving defending players an opportunity to survive you could apply some sort of hit point and damage bonus to them while they are in the circle defending.

Apply that same principle to every guard and supply yak on the map.
Everything scales from 5 and up.

Even in a PvDoor situation this at least slows down the map hoppers.

In order to qualify as someone who scales up the difficulty it would be anyone that gets tagged for the event bonus.

There are other problems but the population one is the biggest and this just may help out enough to even up the odds a bit.

Just an idea….

Edit…forgot to mention that it would scale down depending on number of defenders.

fishball.7204:

- Lack of reward
- hackers
- Lack of reward
- Boring stale maps
- Lack of reward
- No ascended gear
- Lack of reward
- Too many gold sinks
- Lack of reward
- Skill lag
- Skill queueing/dodge queueing
- Lack of reward

Reward? How about we waited a decade for a game with viable large scale combat that the developers actually want us to participate in, and now we have it. That’s the reward: fun.

The only major flaw is loot bags. Very tired of having to double back for them, I’d rather keep moving forward.

Some sort of autoloot would be nice.

Loot should go straight into your inventory, no need to click anything.

All Ascended items should be available by playing WvW, preferably by badges of honour…perhaps a small gold cost as well…

Skill lag needs to be improved…considerably…

Other than that I am pretty happy with WvW…

Siege de-spawn should be different based on the type of siege to be more in-line with how it was a few weeks ago. I agree with a previous poster on this being too much of a chore and it benefitting the servers with greater numbers.

AC, ballis, catas despawn every 6 hours. Everything else 30 minutes.

And they would need to find a better way to combat siege cap trolls.

My lack of talent

(1) Skill lag.
(2) Skill lag.
(3) Skill lag.
(4) Skill lag.
(5) Skill lag.

Did I leave out anything?