Guild Wars 2

Yup, another one of those threads.

It’s all in the title.

The nightly 30-50 golems rushes employed by zerg servers is making upgrading and defending utterly pointless, all for the bargain price of a few gold… and now that gold is so much easier to make, it gets worse.

Full T3 keeps drop in less than a minute, with defenders, with defensive siege.

Devon – this can’t be intentional, surely? Please tell me this is an oversight and will be addressed?

Well they should increase T2 and T3 doors and walls hitpoints.

Hule.8794:

Well they should increase T2 and T3 doors and walls hitpoints.

Because of one overly accessible, mobile siege unit? I agree they should be higher (and I can’t believe players can still damage gates), but it doesn’t address the problem; Increase gate hitpoints and zergs will just build a few more golems.

30 Golem rushes used to be rare, daring and costly. Now they’re nightly, larger, mindless and cheap.

jinkudo.8073:

Parthis.2091:

Yup, another one of those threads.

The nightly 30-50 golems rushes employed by zerg servers

then go to a different server.

i wvw daily on a smaller server and have no such issues.

According to your posting history a month ago you mostly played PvE, two months ago you were level 52 and were sick of playing on your own, etc etc.

Better idea – you move to a different a server and then offer some perspective that makes even the slightest bit of practical sense. I’ve played in T1, i’m playing in T6 right now. Sliding further and further down the rankings to escape broken mechanics is hardly a solution, and not experiencing a problem isn’t the same as there being no problem, kk.

reduce golems health to 20k. omega 30k.

It would be a better idea to simply reduce the amount of golem that can be built in a border. Put a limit of 15/20 golems and you will avoid eccessive golem rushes and it’s simplier than changing the doors HP

Another suggestion:

Let NPC guards use siege weapons (oil, canons, arrow carts) for defensive purposes when number of human defenders available is less than 5.

I could buy at least 300 golems with the badges I farmed every… 2 months? Making them tradeable changed nothing.

IMO if someone wants to spend 50gold on blowing away your borderland more power to em.

Just remove golems from game, they are nothing but a mechanism to avoid a fight.

Change it so that if there is more than 3 golems within 1500 range that only 3 works and rest get some sort of “too much of interference” debuff which prevent skill activation. Also change that golem cant use way point or mesmer portals.

Increasing the cost of building Omegas/Alphas might help since they are so much more accessible now (and the current WvW structure does not seem designed for this new golem wave meta when it comes to capping objectives).

E.g. Alphas – 400 supply, Omegas – 800 supply

well im sure the patch after the 20th is gonna be the new golemmastery.XD i see the disaster already happening

What is scouting?

Billaboong.6821:

It would be a better idea to simply reduce the amount of golem that can be built in a border. Put a limit of 15/20 golems and you will avoid eccessive golem rushes and it’s simplier than changing the doors HP

This ^^^ I like since it should require just a copy and paste of the overall siege code, yet edited only for golems.

That, or add a golem killer traitline that buffs siege you are manning against golems and so on.

BlackDevil.9268:

I could buy at least 300 golems with the badges I farmed every… 2 months? Making them tradeable changed nothing.

This. Badges have been farmed up so much by now, tradeable or not rushes would still be happening pretty often.

Golems take a lot of supplies to make, so instead of sitting in your T3 tower waiting for the 30-50 golem zerg to show up, why not do more map control and watch them camps, you control the supply line, you control the map…..if you cant be bothered to do that, then be prepared to sit and wait for them 30-50 golems to come at you.

Ok I Did It.2854:

Golems take a lot of supplies to make, so instead of sitting in your T3 tower waiting for the 30-50 golem zerg to show up, why not do more map control and watch them camps, you control the supply line, you control the map…..if you cant be bothered to do that, then be prepared to sit and wait for them 30-50 golems to come at you.

Here people, wisdom being handed out, get some of it before it runs out!

DevonCarver.5370:

selan.8354:

well im sure the patch after the 20th is gonna be the new golemmastery.XD i see the disaster already happening

Shows what you know. The next line is Mastery Mastery. 5 pips, each one makes all the other lines more Masterful.

Seriously, there is a glut of golems right now for a few different reasons, which should start to balance out over time. The price on the TP has started to rise again and likely enough they will be much less plentiful as they continue to be used. We are definitely aware of the change to the game that making golems tradeable has had and we’ll keep looking for ways to adjust the balance of the game, but for now stop those golems!

The main problem, and easiest fix, is the golem per map cap itself. Bring it down to something reasonable (5-10) and solve the whole problem.

The price is rising, but is the supply falling? Also, do you have data on how many people have piles of them in the bank waiting for the price to go back up? Is it possible that the glut of gold in the economy due to the champion loot changes and pavillion/gauntlet farming has simply caused the cost of most goods to rise?….

Hrist.8972:

Ok I Did It.2854:

Golems take a lot of supplies to make, so instead of sitting in your T3 tower waiting for the 30-50 golem zerg to show up, why not do more map control and watch them camps, you control the supply line, you control the map…..if you cant be bothered to do that, then be prepared to sit and wait for them 30-50 golems to come at you.

Here people, wisdom being handed out, get some of it before it runs out!

Too late, it ran out, wasn’t much there to begin with though.

I can build a 50 golem army without ever taking a camp on the map I plan to rush. How you gonna stop that? I won’t explain how, because I’m tired of seeing it, but where there’s a will, there’s a way.

Real easy fix to that, if you really want to get into it then, how hard to you think it would be to make it that you cannot take supplies from 1 BL to another, oh wow what you going to do now, make it that golems cannot be ported, oh wow what you going to do now…………

Control the supply, control the map, simple.

Ok I Did It.2854:

Real easy fix to that, if you really want to get into it then, how hard to you think it would be to make it that you cannot take supplies from 1 BL to another, oh wow what you going to do now, make it that golems cannot be ported, oh wow what you going to do now…………

Control the supply, control the map, simple.

I would be totally in favor of that. Would make reset nights particularly epic. Would probably lead to “spawncamping” more though, so perhaps more stale gameplay.

Other changes would be required as well. Although it’s slower, I can still build golems in a BL without taking a camp or bringing outside supply….

Ok I Did It.2854:

Control the supply, control the map, simple.

Wow, you (and others in this thread) really don’t realize there are 4 maps do you? Allow me to tell you of the time’s I’ve built 10 golems on a map where I don’t own a single camp. It would have been 30 but I don’t get the advantage of a zerg or 2 hours to spare.

PS please do not learn anything from this post. Continue playing as you have.

Yes im aware you could build an army inside the likes of bay, garrison, or cap a camp and built it etc etc, and if its your own BL then yes you could build them up no problem, but from the way the OP posted it was made out that they where standing in a T3 tower waiting for them to come at them, if you had good map control it could be a lot harder to build 30 golems, and keep them safe.

Im on one of the top T1 servers in NA, and we don’t see many golem rushes, granted we do sometimes if we are bored, but its not really something ive seen a lot of.

Thrashbarg.9820:

Too late, it ran out, wasn’t much there to begin with though.

I can build a 50 golem army without ever taking a camp on the map I plan to rush. How you gonna stop that? I won’t explain how, because I’m tired of seeing it, but where there’s a will, there’s a way.

There’s still a chance that your golem army could get scouted and acted upon before you reach your destination. This doesn’t happen very often since people are not interested enough to scout.

jinkudo.8073:

Parthis.2091:

jinkudo.8073:

Parthis.2091:

Yup, another one of those threads.

The nightly 30-50 golems rushes employed by zerg servers

then go to a different server.

i wvw daily on a smaller server and have no such issues.

According to your posting history a month ago you mostly played PvE, two months ago you were level 52 and were sick of playing on your own, etc etc.

Better idea – you move to a different a server and then offer some perspective that makes even the slightest bit of practical sense. I’ve played in T1, i’m playing in T6 right now. Sliding further and further down the rankings to escape broken mechanics is hardly a solution, and not experiencing a problem isn’t the same as there being no problem, kk.

yeah that was two months ago. two months ago the only dungeon i had ran was cof p1. now i’ve ran them all, all paths. 2 months ago i had a lvl 52. now i have 3 lvl 80s and am working on my third legendary. mind telling me what my post history has to do with anything? you bringing any of this up is completely irrelevant lol.

i’ll admit i haven’t played wvw in different tiers of servers. but i have experienced the intensity that different servers bring. i play on sorrow’s furnace and we end up rolling eredon terrace, ferguson’s crossing and anvil rock alot of the time. but then we get a server like gate of madness that gives us a run for our money. then we come across servers like one of our current matchups, isle of janthir: and we get steam rolled. ioj’s zerg game is ridiculous compared to what we usually see. not their tactics in particular, i just mean that their numbers never seem to skim. this morning i found myself struggling to round up a group of 4-6 people to take back our part of the map only to get rolled by a 50+ man ioj zerg 20 minutes later.. at 4 am.

so i can just imagine what the zergs are like in even higher tiers. i honestly don’t enjoy the huge zerg deal. i mean rolling a zerg of 20-40 and doing your thing on eb is one thing. but 30-50 golems sounds plain stupid. which is why i suggested moving to a lower tier server. because that kind of thing is not as common. that does not make “even the slightest bit of practical sense” to you? I mean, other than the price of moving to a different server, that’s downright practical lol. 100% practical actually. but hey, your idea of practical seems to be kittening on forums.

you’re the one that said you’re on a zerg server. what do you think zergs do? take it easy on eachother?? of course they’re gonna bring as much of the best siege as they can.

that was cute how you tried to demean me though LOL.

All you have suggested is to run away from the problem and not fix it. One of the single stupidest ideas I have ever had the misfortune to read. Something is broken in the game, and instead of fixing it you suggest just leaving it, dear god I hope you are never in charge of anything with that logic..

Siegerazor kind of makes the whole control the supply game meaningless. Not to mention that golems punch down T3 keeps before you can even get your main force over from another map. There’s really no response to a mazz golem zerg other than to let them take the keep.

Thrashbarg.9820:

The main problem, and easiest fix, is the golem per map cap itself. Bring it down to something reasonable (5-10) and solve the whole problem.

You could make that cap an actual gameplay element. I.e. in addition to supplies golems need an expirable “power flux” or something to build them, and there’s only ever like 10 on the map (maybe make it that Omegas require two ). That would provide some minor objectives to underused corners of the map and give Golem-using zergs as well as defenders against said golems an additional strategic dimension.

Pumped for mastery mastery. Will start saving my points right now.

Make golems the first targets for aoe damage.
A 10’ golem should not be able to shelter from damage behind a 3’ Asura.

Simple solution:

Give Golems a permanent AOE condition with 5000 range that affects other golems.
Make that condition reduce damage done by 3%, stacking in intensity, capped at 25 stacks.

That way:
2 golems: 3% damage reduction
5 golems: 12% damage reduction
10 golems: 27% damage reduction
20 golems: 57% damage reduction
26 golems: 75% damage reduction
100 golems: 75% damage reduction

DevonCarver.5370:

selan.8354:

well im sure the patch after the 20th is gonna be the new golemmastery.XD i see the disaster already happening

Shows what you know. The next line is Mastery Mastery. 5 pips, each one makes all the other lines more Masterful.

Seriously, there is a glut of golems right now for a few different reasons, which should start to balance out over time. The price on the TP has started to rise again and likely enough they will be much less plentiful as they continue to be used. We are definitely aware of the change to the game that making golems tradeable has had and we’ll keep looking for ways to adjust the balance of the game, but for now stop those golems!

Please tell us how can we stop those golems.
3/4 omega Can melt a reinforced gate on a matter of seconds, a gate that require far more time and supply to obtain.
Witch is the “Ninja trick” We are all missing, please teach us.
Thanks so much for your help.

Parthis.2091:

(and I can’t believe players can still damage gates)

Whacking something with a hammer is bound to ruin its structural integrity. Explosive balls of fire too. And setting the door on fire would surely play a part in weakening it. I’m surprised players cant hurt the walls with certain weapons like grenades, be lucky they can’t.

Have No Faith In Me.1840:

Parthis.2091:

(and I can’t believe players can still damage gates)

Whacking something with a hammer is bound to ruin its structural integrity. Explosive balls of fire too. And setting the door on fire would surely play a part in weakening it. I’m surprised players cant hurt the walls with certain weapons like grenades, be lucky they can’t.

If you want a realistic game, I think you’re playing the wrong genre. I do believe what Parthis was getting at is the fact an 80 man blob can melt a gate faster than rams, and trust me, that happens quite frequently.

Golems now are basically just a skeleton key into your keep when utilized by a zerg. Omega moreso than alpha. Arrow carts do almost nothing to them(arrow cart conditions do not even apply to golems either) and there’s no realistic siege cap for them on a gate, unlike rams.

Before the massive golem influx, a force of 20-30 players with plenty of defensive siege could realistically hold off a full map team of 60-80 or at very least delay them for quite awhile until players can get free from other maps to help out. Now with the constant omega golem rushes? There’s no way the 20-30 players can take them out or even slow them down unless the 60-80 players are completely braindead and just let you kill them. The golems have too much health and damage reduction, and the more golems there are, the more effective they are.

bubumochi.8512:

Please tell us how can we stop those golems.
3/4 omega Can melt a reinforced gate on a matter of seconds, a gate that require far more time and supply to obtain.
Witch is the “Ninja trick” We are all missing, please teach us.
Thanks so much for your help.

No trick really, basically you and a larger group hide at a harder to reach supply camp and build golems for a really long time.

Hope the few people who might see what you are doing are stupid enough to leave you alone and not say anything to their server.

Hope they just continue on their merry way capping places of least resistance (Hint: Often times, they do just that).

Hour+ later, golem zerg. Just need one or two camps to do this.

It’s not insurmountable. Again, if people would speak up and say “hey server over at this supply camp number of people are building golems”.

Golems are also really, really slow. Even with some mesmers, it’s gonna take time for them to reach their destination.

If you see a golem zerg en route, get your forces to meet them before they reach their destination. Make the golems a priority. A couple of stealthy stabby thieves would be great for this.

Another legit strategy would be to kill their portal mesmers. You just made slow into an excruciating grind for them.

Even if they wipe you, if you can do any substantial amount of damage to their golems before they arrive to wherever they’re going, when they make it to your keep or garrison, they won’t last against a well fortified location.

Golems cannot heal or be healed. They do not regen health over time or when out of combat. They cannot be buffed (except with the mesmers Time Warp).

They cannot be defended in anyway outside of themselves. In that regard all they have is a bubble shield on a very long cool down.

But yeah if the prices of golems doesn’t self correct in price, I suppose they may need a nerf.

Hule.8794:

Well they should increase T2 and T3 doors and walls hitpoints.

There are no T3 doors.

I agree it’s too golem-faceroll/pay-to-win at the moment.

The simple solution:

• nerf the siege damage of golems
• nerf golem HP

Perhaps more interesting solutions:

• make golems appear on the world map and minimap when within 5K units of a tower, keep or sentry.
• buff oil HP, protection, and damage; make golems take increased damage from oil, and/or make oil debuff golem damage/attack speed.

honestly supply is a pretty straightforward limit on golems in EB. if you’ve built up 1500 supply to build 10 golems with then more power to you.

burn everything.

its only the supply hauled from other battlegrounds that lets golems really get out of control.

oh and portals of course, portals essentially nullify golem mobility issues and make it much more difficult to scout and intercept golems.

Shoe.5821:

honestly supply is a pretty straightforward limit on golems in EB. if you’ve built up 1500 supply to build 10 golems with then more power to you.

burn everything.

its only the supply hauled from other battlegrounds that lets golems really get out of control.

oh and portals of course, portals essentially nullify golem mobility issues and make it much more difficult to scout and intercept golems.

It’s not about supply. Supply is easy; your overlook is the perfect golem depot after a day or two, and golems are built slowly throughout the day. It completely nullifies the point in upgrading objectives with one entry point and a small area (as you just can’t build enough siege to counter a rush like that).

It’s not about scouting; seeing it coming doesn’t make it less effective when it arrives. There is a point where the time it takes 40 golems to nuke a door is faster that the time it takes 15 ACs to nuke 40 golems. It’s basic maths at this point.

Also consider that supply isn’t spent at the objective; every golem pilot is sitting in a golem with 10-15 supps; it’s the only sieging mechanism in the game that provides a fast root into an objective, with pre-spent supps and enough supps to then siege up for defense.

DevonCarver.5370:

selan.8354:

well im sure the patch after the 20th is gonna be the new golemmastery.XD i see the disaster already happening

Shows what you know. The next line is Mastery Mastery. 5 pips, each one makes all the other lines more Masterful.

Seriously, there is a glut of golems right now for a few different reasons, which should start to balance out over time. The price on the TP has started to rise again and likely enough they will be much less plentiful as they continue to be used. We are definitely aware of the change to the game that making golems tradeable has had and we’ll keep looking for ways to adjust the balance of the game, but for now stop those golems!

Thanks for the reply Devon (cool to see you posting more, it’s appreciated).

Do you have any stats on just how many golems are stockpiled in people’s bags, banks and guild banks though?

Sieging is so cheap, and golems so mobile.

Any thoughts on Golems and Portals? Portals just negate the sluggish nature of golems, and allow zergs to portal straight to a safe spot or gate, ready to go. Four mesmers completely negate the artificial limits of golems.

Any thoughts on Golems and Timewarp?

It strikes me that golems were designed to be;

• Sluggish and vulnerable, but powerful at the objective
• Expensive

At the moment they’re cheap, easy to move and so very, very hard to counter. Gates literally last seconds, and structures that have taken the whole day to upgrade are lost in less than a minute.

I’m sorry to bump this but the lowest price for the golem is 23s on the European TP which is quite frankly ridiculous, Golem prices have been going down lately in particular Omega Golems rather than up.

They so very hard to counter even with everything sieged up fairly well, you need to refresh defensive siege periodically before they despawn and enough people to man them it is just too easy for these Karma trains to steamroll T3 keeps and towers with ease.
So with all these Siege masteries you’ve buffed almost all siege to a point where you’ve sped up wvw so much with cheap attainable Superior Siege and Golems.

Ha, thanks for the bump, on Devona’s I see the SF and FC zergs rush our garrisons with more golems than we have people defending. On a side note I can’t wait until the league starts! Getting roflstomped by the likes of Storm Bluff and Kaineng is going to be awesome.

Mif.3471:

Simple solution:

Give Golems a permanent AOE condition with 5000 range that affects other golems.
Make that condition reduce damage done by 3%, stacking in intensity, capped at 25 stacks.

That way:
2 golems: 3% damage reduction
5 golems: 12% damage reduction
10 golems: 27% damage reduction
20 golems: 57% damage reduction
26 golems: 75% damage reduction
100 golems: 75% damage reduction

Another solution would be to give them a limited range from where they were built or last refreshed. Have it so that they could reach bay and garrison, or bay and the center tower opposite garrison depending on the side of the lake they were built. If they are then ported back to home base and left for safety as they often are then their range is refreshed their allowing them to get the two supply camps on either side and the tower straight ahead.

DevonCarver.5370:

selan.8354:

well im sure the patch after the 20th is gonna be the new golemmastery.XD i see the disaster already happening

Shows what you know. The next line is Mastery Mastery. 5 pips, each one makes all the other lines more Masterful.

Seriously, there is a glut of golems right now for a few different reasons, which should start to balance out over time. The price on the TP has started to rise again and likely enough they will be much less plentiful as they continue to be used. We are definitely aware of the change to the game that making golems tradeable has had and we’ll keep looking for ways to adjust the balance of the game, but for now stop those golems!

erm devon…erm i wrote that in another thread( i think it was called golems,golems everywhere) before i knew what masteries were coming out u know that right? and also i was semi serious about that.

that aside, we might need a better way to be able to defend vs golems from walls, but eles, necros and other aoe spams turn that wall into a deathtrap, so defending is pretty tough atm. i dont think masteries are gonna fix that, maybe new upgrades for keeps or stronger walls andgates could help.

DevonCarver.5370:

but for now stop those golems!

Only the Omega golems are a threat to t3 keeps and if you are trying to defend your keep, well then just pop a feedback bubble or something over them.

Would be best if all seige except rams were just removed. More enjoyable fights.

May as well remove the rams too, and the towers and keeps.

In fact, flatten it all out, remove the wildlife and trees and mow the grass. Then to make it absolutely fair, give everyone the same weapons, armour, skills and stats.

Karl Marx would have approved

Asura’s inventing siege golems sounds like Einstein inventing Atomic Bomb.

Imo, golems itself are wrong to be used in WvW. They are not fitting a real warfare.