Guild Wars 2

I’m going to get to the point. Honestly mindlessly zerg-balling should not be the be all and end all.(It’s just lazy low risk high reward playstyle.) It’s really gotten so bad to the point most of the WvW community will run away from you unless they have far superior numbers. (There is too much emphasis on mindless mob tactics, in this game mode.) We are to the point where servers are lobbying and paying for other people and guild to transfer to their servers, just because how overpowered the zerg tactic is in this game.

Roamers and Solo players gain little to no rewards compared to the zerg. Yet has to utilize the most skill and tactics to even be viable. (Super high risk – Super low reward playstyle.) I personally think that is a huge problem. More so then the match ups.

People are only bandwagoning to stack servers to gain a higher chance at wining or more rewards(bags and reward track progression) for less skillful play. If you nerf zerg play you can pretty much solve a lot of problems over night with, players manipulating your population counting system and such. Server stacking after every link would instantly be fixed. It’ll also promote people to spread out evenly throughout the servers instead of just stacking for easy bags via outnumbering their enemies.

Some ways that come to my mind on how to solve this.

A.)
Nerf rewards gain based off of numbers. The more players you show up to hit a structure or player. The less reward track and rewards you get.

B.)
The less people you have the killing players or taking objectives. The more reward track progression, and rewards you get.

C.) Way higher outnumbered buff.
The more severely outnumbered you are. The more stats you gain, to equal out for being outnumbered. No PPT change or Karma gain changes. Just pure stat gains.(The other servers who are outnumbering said server should see this and be forced to either decide, to continue their attack against a buffed outnumbered server. Or split up to prevent said server from getting the outnumbered buff.)

D.) A little bit of all of the above mixed together.

Those are just my two cents. Yall are now free to flame me.

I agree to a point.. but i think here is what needs to change.

In wvw, the more people you have throwing DOT (condi death over time) spells, you would get dimishing returns meaning that the more people you have dropping condi’s, the less they actually do…. maybe even have a point where you reach (say 15 stacks) then when someone applys more, they are converted to heals.

This would be the ONLY effective way of reducing zerg fights in wvw simply because everyone runs cancer now. 20+ necros and elems all dropping condi spells on the incoming zerg.

You run into a fight and whoever has the most necros and condi classes wins now days.

Buff physical damage (arrows and physical projectile damage) to make rangers and melee classes more effective to counter the condi bomb classes like necro and elem engi and mesmer.

I think the game will be better when they also balance population. I know people say it has already been done, but people have left and joined servers and it is all messed up again.

There are times when on Tarnished Coast server, we will have a group of 20-30 facing two large full map blobs on multiple maps.

Reaper Alim.4176:

I’m going to get to the point. Honestly mindlessly zerg-balling should not be the be all and end all.(It’s just lazy low risk high reward playstyle.) It’s really gotten so bad to the point most of the WvW community will run away from you unless they have far superior numbers. (There is too much emphasis on mindless mob tactics, in this game mode.) We are to the point where servers are lobbying and paying for other people and guild to transfer to their servers, just because how overpowered the zerg tactic is in this game.

Roamers and Solo players gain little to no rewards compared to the zerg. Yet has to utilize the most skill and tactics to even be viable. (Super high risk – Super low reward playstyle.) I personally think that is a huge problem. More so then the match ups.

People are only bandwagoning to stack servers to gain a higher chance at wining or more rewards(bags and reward track progression) for less skillful play. If you nerf zerg play you can pretty much solve a lot of problems over night with, players manipulating your population counting system and such. Server stacking after every link would instantly be fixed. It’ll also promote people to spread out evenly throughout the servers instead of just stacking for easy bags via outnumbering their enemies.

Some ways that come to my mind on how to solve this.

A.)
Nerf rewards gain based off of numbers. The more players you show up to hit a structure or player. The less reward track and rewards you get.

B.)
The less people you have the killing players or taking objectives. The more reward track progression, and rewards you get.

C.) Way higher outnumbered buff.
The more severely outnumbered you are. The more stats you gain, to equal out for being outnumbered. No PPT change or Karma gain changes. Just pure stat gains.(The other servers who are outnumbering said server should see this and be forced to either decide, to continue their attack against a buffed outnumbered server. Or split up to prevent said server from getting the outnumbered buff.)

D.) A little bit of all of the above mixed together.

Those are just my two cents. Yall are now free to flame me.

Buying players/guilds has been going on since the beginning, before there was an
A), or
B)

C) Has been written by Anet that they don’t want to give stat boosts to outmanned players for fear of small groups of players harassing other players so they won’t lose the outmanned buff. However, Anet has in the past said one thing and later changed their direction, but I doubt that this is one thing they will ever change. The “fail events” in PvE is one example that we don’t need to see in WvW.

EDIT: Having been a zerg player for most of my time in WvW, I’ve never felt like I was mindlessly playing in WvW, now EotM, that’s some mindless play.

BTW.. i have heard rumors that they are changing the outmanned buff in a way that say your taking a camp solo and 3 people run in. As long as no one else is within range of you, you will have a buff to compensate for the difference.. but there has been no hard confirmation on this as of yet that i have seen.

I agree with all of these. I had suggested an increase to the outnumbered buff and actually went further: the outnumbered buff would decrease the amount of supply to deploy siege, and would also increase things like base stats like Power, Toughness, Vitality, etc. The size of the decrease/increase would vary depending on how outnumbered the server is.

I also suggested an “outnumbering” debuff. The server with the heavy numbers would get a debuff (increase in supply for deployable siege, decrease in base stats) – it would be like a handicap in golf.

Both these changes could provide the ability for a low population server to compete against a higher population one.

…and people flamed me a bit for these suggestions back then

Reaper Alim.4176:

Roamers and Solo players gain little to no rewards compared to the zerg. Yet has to utilize the most skill and tactics to even be viable. (Super high risk – Super low reward playstyle.) I personally think that is a huge problem. More so then the match ups.

As someone who scouts and roams, I can safely say doing so has never been so rewarding. Sure it is nowhere near the zerg train loot, but reward tracks have done wonders for my own income in this game mode.

Reaper Alim.4176:

We are to the point where servers are lobbying and paying for other people and guild to transfer to their servers, just because how overpowered the zerg tactic is in this game.

This has has been going on since the dawn of wvw. It will never change.

Reaper Alim.4176:

Some ways that come to my mind on how to solve this.

A.)
Nerf rewards gain based off of numbers. The more players you show up to hit a structure or player. The less reward track and rewards you get.

B.)
The less people you have the killing players or taking objectives. The more reward track progression, and rewards you get…

Can’t do that it’s against anets design philosophy.

Honestly if you want to nerf zerg gameplay make it less rewarding and reward skillful cordination.

The easiest way to do both is nerf everything aoe format. Most of the radii on skills are about the size of 2 char cars. TWO WHOLE CHARR CARS. Smaller radii mean less tags, less damage all around, and more precision and skillful play.

Will it stop mindless zerging? no. It never will because people enjoy being lazy.

As long the “outnumbered buff” is map wide, it shouldn’t increase stats or something like this. Why should the enemy I’m fighting 1vs1 get better stats than me? Just because my server has the bigger zerg somewhere else? I prefer a useless buff over one, that can add even more imbalance.
And i don’t really get the hate towards zergs. If you don’t enjoy zerging, just don’t do it. There is always something else to do.

I still think that one of the most effective ways to discourage blob wars without punishing players for blobbing up is to give PPC that scale inversely with the size of the blob that captured the objective.

So for example a group of 50 people that capture a tower would get 0 points for capturing it, yet if a group of 5 had captured the tower they would get some warscore. And obviously this scales with the objective’s tier. So a 5 person group taking a T3 keep would get more warscore than a 5 person group taking a T1 keep.

This could even be extended to include victory points. Say if you manage to take T2/T3 SM with a group of fewer than 5 people for the whole fight your server would get +1 victory points after the current skirmish ended since you clearly showed more skill than a huge blob and deserve to be compensated accordingly.

Values would of course have to be adjusted through some trial and error, but it encourages small groups and empowers roamers to make a difference in the warscore by capturing supply camps and duoing towers.

Right now everyone gets 100% of the reward, regardless if you take objective with 5, or 35. I would say give 100% for up to the first 8 or 10 players within range, but then start reducing it on a scale … down to like 25% for 20+

The only issue I have with this option is that it will likely have a negative impact on server activity. There are a lot of lazy people who play this game mode, who don’t care if they actually hit an enemy in a fight, but race in for the circle cap.

The changes to scoring recently have made ppk much more important. Now balling up into an invincible blob and farming smaller groups will win a skirmish without a lot of ppt.

On the flip side, I can roam around and rack up ppk like candy and be contributing. Never could understand why anyone would want to run 50v25 or 70v40 or whatever. It’s nothing but lag and mowing people down.

Eventually the people find something else to do and you’re left with a map blob with nothing to do but flip undefended structures. If that’s your thing then have at it.

Put in handicaps on groups that getting bigger and bigger, like you would get in fractals with the social awkwardness/flux bomb. Would be fun to watch em kill them self.

I’ve been in some great zergs that are anything but mindless — it’s my favorite WvW activity (zerg diving).

Without proper group composition and coordinated skill usage, the zerg will melt to a smaller team. I see it all the time.

Reaper Alim.4176:

A.)
Nerf rewards gain based off of numbers. The more players you show up to hit a structure or player. The less reward track and rewards you get.

B.)
The less people you have the killing players or taking objectives. The more reward track progression, and rewards you get.

C.) Way higher outnumbered buff.
The more severely outnumbered you are. The more stats you gain, to equal out for being outnumbered. No PPT change or Karma gain changes. Just pure stat gains.(The other servers who are outnumbering said server should see this and be forced to either decide, to continue their attack against a buffed outnumbered server. Or split up to prevent said server from getting the outnumbered buff.)

D.) A little bit of all of the above mixed together.

Those are just my two cents. Yall are now free to flame me.

But that would make game much more similar to DAOC…you surely don’t want that!
Whats next, realm points for healers?

Punishing people for playing together is agaibst the philosophy of the game. It would be much more appropriate to put more work into the balancing of large scale combat.

A few things they could do is significantly reduce the amount of Aoe spam/Cc spam/BoonSpam. Making most skills Single target and removing the Aoe Cc and boonspam would improve WvW more competitive/enjoyable as well as remove the fascination with Zerging.

WvW needs to end. It failed and just needs to start from scratch. There’s no fixing this mess. The lazy blob players, the balance, the glicko, the scoring, the off hour coverage wars, the objectives, the maps… just delete it all. Good god.

I dont enjoy zerging aswell because as many people said before it requires so much less skill, in no way fighting using half of ur abilities (if that many depending on class) is more challenging than having to time/think your cooldowns ,dodges traits etc while fighting similar numbers or superior ones. Bet money most people that run zergs and know little else survive alone most 1vs1 or 1vs2 plus.

Cecilia.5179:

Punishing people for playing together is agaibst the philosophy of the game. It would be much more appropriate to put more work into the balancing of large scale combat.

While this is true, there are several instances in PvE, as well as PvP, where having all players doing one thing will end in failure. Playing together also means coordination and working together. Large groups of players who mindlessly follow the tag should not have an advantage over smaller groups who coordinate their movements and team comp.

sigrdrifumal.3752:

Cecilia.5179:

Punishing people for playing together is agaibst the philosophy of the game. It would be much more appropriate to put more work into the balancing of large scale combat.

While this is true, there are several instances in PvE, as well as PvP, where having all players doing one thing will end in failure. Playing together also means coordination and working together. Large groups of players who mindlessly follow the tag should not have an advantage over smaller groups who coordinate their movements (tactics) and team comp.

Straight from Sun Tzu … Wu vs Chu when Sun Tzu drew the Chu forces towards Ying

Reaper Alim.4176:

I’m going to get to the point. Honestly mindlessly zerg-balling should not be the be all and end all.(It’s just lazy low risk high reward playstyle.) It’s really gotten so bad to the point most of the WvW community will run away from you unless they have far superior numbers. (There is too much emphasis on mindless mob tactics, in this game mode.) We are to the point where servers are lobbying and paying for other people and guild to transfer to their servers, just because how overpowered the zerg tactic is in this game.

Roamers and Solo players gain little to no rewards compared to the zerg. Yet has to utilize the most skill and tactics to even be viable. (Super high risk – Super low reward playstyle.) I personally think that is a huge problem. More so then the match ups.

People are only bandwagoning to stack servers to gain a higher chance at wining or more rewards(bags and reward track progression) for less skillful play. If you nerf zerg play you can pretty much solve a lot of problems over night with, players manipulating your population counting system and such. Server stacking after every link would instantly be fixed. It’ll also promote people to spread out evenly throughout the servers instead of just stacking for easy bags via outnumbering their enemies.

Some ways that come to my mind on how to solve this.

A.)
Nerf rewards gain based off of numbers. The more players you show up to hit a structure or player. The less reward track and rewards you get.

B.)
The less people you have the killing players or taking objectives. The more reward track progression, and rewards you get.

C.) Way higher outnumbered buff.
The more severely outnumbered you are. The more stats you gain, to equal out for being outnumbered. No PPT change or Karma gain changes. Just pure stat gains.(The other servers who are outnumbering said server should see this and be forced to either decide, to continue their attack against a buffed outnumbered server. Or split up to prevent said server from getting the outnumbered buff.)

D.) A little bit of all of the above mixed together.

Those are just my two cents. Yall are now free to flame me.

You can’t punish players playing in any way… If you can’t handle zergs then spvp is available.

sigrdrifumal.3752:

Cecilia.5179:

Punishing people for playing together is agaibst the philosophy of the game. It would be much more appropriate to put more work into the balancing of large scale combat.

While this is true, there are several instances in PvE, as well as PvP, where having all players doing one thing will end in failure. Playing together also means coordination and working together. Large groups of players who mindlessly follow the tag should not have an advantage over smaller groups who coordinate their movements and team comp.

Actually, I believe that an ideal WvW map has a zerg and a havoc hitting in opposite places to spread the focus of the opponents. If the zerg is well coordinated, in coms, and plays skillfully, they can make up for a small loss in numbers.
Coverage makes the biggest difference.

Swagger.1459:

Reaper Alim.4176:

I’m going to get to the point. Honestly mindlessly zerg-balling should not be the be all and end all.(It’s just lazy low risk high reward playstyle.) It’s really gotten so bad to the point most of the WvW community will run away from you unless they have far superior numbers. (There is too much emphasis on mindless mob tactics, in this game mode.) We are to the point where servers are lobbying and paying for other people and guild to transfer to their servers, just because how overpowered the zerg tactic is in this game.

Roamers and Solo players gain little to no rewards compared to the zerg. Yet has to utilize the most skill and tactics to even be viable. (Super high risk – Super low reward playstyle.) I personally think that is a huge problem. More so then the match ups.

People are only bandwagoning to stack servers to gain a higher chance at wining or more rewards(bags and reward track progression) for less skillful play. If you nerf zerg play you can pretty much solve a lot of problems over night with, players manipulating your population counting system and such. Server stacking after every link would instantly be fixed. It’ll also promote people to spread out evenly throughout the servers instead of just stacking for easy bags via outnumbering their enemies.

Some ways that come to my mind on how to solve this.

A.)
Nerf rewards gain based off of numbers. The more players you show up to hit a structure or player. The less reward track and rewards you get.

B.)
The less people you have the killing players or taking objectives. The more reward track progression, and rewards you get.

C.) Way higher outnumbered buff.
The more severely outnumbered you are. The more stats you gain, to equal out for being outnumbered. No PPT change or Karma gain changes. Just pure stat gains.(The other servers who are outnumbering said server should see this and be forced to either decide, to continue their attack against a buffed outnumbered server. Or split up to prevent said server from getting the outnumbered buff.)

D.) A little bit of all of the above mixed together.

Those are just my two cents. Yall are now free to flame me.

You can’t punish players playing in any way… If you can’t handle zergs then spvp is available.

Lol brilliant answer, so people should refrain from roaming and access to other utilities, foods, sigils, runes, siege weapons and keep capture aswell as camps and go spvp in a magical place where diversity has been long forgotten.

Hexinx.1872:

sigrdrifumal.3752:

Cecilia.5179:

Punishing people for playing together is agaibst the philosophy of the game. It would be much more appropriate to put more work into the balancing of large scale combat.

While this is true, there are several instances in PvE, as well as PvP, where having all players doing one thing will end in failure. Playing together also means coordination and working together. Large groups of players who mindlessly follow the tag should not have an advantage over smaller groups who coordinate their movements (tactics) and team comp.

Straight from Sun Tzu … Wu vs Chu when Sun Tzu drew the Chu forces towards Ying

Well, he also said if you greatly outnumber your opponent you should surround them.

Reaper Alim.4176:

I’m going to get to the point. Honestly mindlessly zerg-balling should not be the be all and end all.(It’s just lazy low risk high reward playstyle.) It’s really gotten so bad to the point most of the WvW community will run away from you unless they have far superior numbers. (There is too much emphasis on mindless mob tactics, in this game mode.) We are to the point where servers are lobbying and paying for other people and guild to transfer to their servers, just because how overpowered the zerg tactic is in this game.

At this point? that’s all been going on for 4 years now.

Wasn’t all mindless zerging, why do you think there was a gvg scene? there were plenty of players interested in organized 10/15/20/25 sized fights. Also not the players fault that wvw was setup to have commander tags for everyone to see, to the point that those organized groups had to run tagless to keep the randoms from following them around and inflating their numbers. Squad size should have probably been set a lot less than 50, not that it would deter players from running multiple groups together anyways.

Maybe if commander tags were for group only to see from the beginning, things would have been different these days. Also a lot of small organized havoc groups got killed with the expansion, a lot of those players either quit or joined bigger guilds.

Sure there’s mindless zerging, lots of times it’s players just wanting to log on for 2 hours and if their guilds weren’t raiding they join a random zerg and get some fights. If one side does it the others have to as well, and all it takes is one pug commander to gather a map queue to capture stuff and run over smaller groups.

Personally I’ve done the roaming/havoc/small group thing for periods of time, but I like running in big groups, waiting for those zerg dives, seeing who can pop off the right spells at the right times, the corruptions to static fields to the coordinated well bombs.

The reason why players moved up the tiers is to get into those big group fights on a more consistent basis. If players wanted to fight smaller groups they have that choice in the lower tiers. If you really only want 5 man fights then spvp is also available for that. The whole reason for wvw and it’s big maps is to have a greater number of players in there with different types of groups.

Rewards in wvw have been bad since the beginning of the game, reward tracks were a good step, and fairly done. Doesn’t matter if you’re in zerg or solo it ain’t hard to get to max participation and maintain it, and it’s not like zergs get their reward tracks done faster, just get to max participation a little faster to begin with, the only big difference is they get to collect more bags per hour. If that’s really a problem then hey just take the next step and take out heavy and champ bags out of wvw and let all the rewards come from the tracks.

The outnumbered buff does need a change, getting stuff like magic find when you have less chances to kill an enemy that outnumbers you is just insulting. Getting boosted stats to help compete with those numbers would be nice, but as some pointed out it could just encourage players to tell others to get off the map to get the buff.

Maybe other things should happen, like instead of buffs to players place it on their structures or npcs, make those a lot harder to take for an overwhelming force until the outnumbered side can gather enough players to compete again. But again the “get off the map so we get the buff” will still be around no matter what, when it comes to stat boosting.

In the end even if you try to nerf the rewards for bigger groups, they would probably still get more than an average solo’er just for the fact that it’s still more efficient and faster for a bigger groups to capture stuff. I wouldn’t be surprised if this type of change this late in the game would lead to some players just leaving wvw.

Chaba.5410:

Hexinx.1872:

sigrdrifumal.3752:

Cecilia.5179:

Punishing people for playing together is agaibst the philosophy of the game. It would be much more appropriate to put more work into the balancing of large scale combat.

While this is true, there are several instances in PvE, as well as PvP, where having all players doing one thing will end in failure. Playing together also means coordination and working together. Large groups of players who mindlessly follow the tag should not have an advantage over smaller groups who coordinate their movements (tactics) and team comp.

Straight from Sun Tzu … Wu vs Chu when Sun Tzu drew the Chu forces towards Ying

Well, he also said if you greatly outnumber your opponent you should surround them.

True, yet Sun Tzu himself won the decisive battle outside of Ying with fewer, but manoeuvring his teams to surround the larger force, and struck first (surprise attack).

Mikhael.2391:

Swagger.1459:

Reaper Alim.4176:

I’m going to get to the point. Honestly mindlessly zerg-balling should not be the be all and end all.(It’s just lazy low risk high reward playstyle.) It’s really gotten so bad to the point most of the WvW community will run away from you unless they have far superior numbers. (There is too much emphasis on mindless mob tactics, in this game mode.) We are to the point where servers are lobbying and paying for other people and guild to transfer to their servers, just because how overpowered the zerg tactic is in this game.

Roamers and Solo players gain little to no rewards compared to the zerg. Yet has to utilize the most skill and tactics to even be viable. (Super high risk – Super low reward playstyle.) I personally think that is a huge problem. More so then the match ups.

People are only bandwagoning to stack servers to gain a higher chance at wining or more rewards(bags and reward track progression) for less skillful play. If you nerf zerg play you can pretty much solve a lot of problems over night with, players manipulating your population counting system and such. Server stacking after every link would instantly be fixed. It’ll also promote people to spread out evenly throughout the servers instead of just stacking for easy bags via outnumbering their enemies.

Some ways that come to my mind on how to solve this.

A.)
Nerf rewards gain based off of numbers. The more players you show up to hit a structure or player. The less reward track and rewards you get.

B.)
The less people you have the killing players or taking objectives. The more reward track progression, and rewards you get.

C.) Way higher outnumbered buff.
The more severely outnumbered you are. The more stats you gain, to equal out for being outnumbered. No PPT change or Karma gain changes. Just pure stat gains.(The other servers who are outnumbering said server should see this and be forced to either decide, to continue their attack against a buffed outnumbered server. Or split up to prevent said server from getting the outnumbered buff.)

D.) A little bit of all of the above mixed together.

Those are just my two cents. Yall are now free to flame me.

You can’t punish players playing in any way… If you can’t handle zergs then spvp is available.

Lol brilliant answer, so people should refrain from roaming and access to other utilities, foods, sigils, runes, siege weapons and keep capture aswell as camps and go spvp in a magical place where diversity has been long forgotten.

That’s exactly his answer. WvW is a game only for players who like to queue maps and roll on one tag, to troll and steam roll small groups. (He is advocating for more skill less F1 numbers over tactical play.) If you don’t like it then leave, he said.

And people wonder why I made this tread in the first place. Because people like subject one. Who probable just bandwagons to what ever server has the highest population in the tier just to steam roll and troll other servers who have no population. He is the exact example of why I said it’s got out of hand. And the zergling play style is just too overpowered to enjoy if you are on a server who are always outnumbered nearly 24/7. Because their is absolutely no counter play to zerglings just steamrolling you with spamming F1 when they outnumber you 3 or 4 to one. (While you can down their players. The rest just revive them.) It’s exactly like fighting 6 Billion Zombies with 100 super humans at best.

That is what I’m saying needs to change. People are not going to not cheese the system, if the system rewards people for cheesing it. I honesty think a big debuff needs to happen to the zergling play style. For good reasons too. It’s just too many people abusing the bandwagon/zergling play style. That the game mode is not fun at all if you find your self on a predominately 24/7 outnumbered server for 4 to 8 weeks. kitten’s really destroying mines and maybe others GW2’s WvW experience.

Just either nerfbat the zerglings or buff those who are severely outnumbered, or close down more severs and give us free server transfer, or just gave us a free transfer period. Or just get rid of the linking system. I’ve never had such a hard time in WvW till the server link became a thing and pretty much buffed the bandwagon play style to epic proportions.

No sPvP is not a substitute for WvW. sPvP is a place where you go if you just don’t want to face some unique builds because you can’t figure a way or put the time and effort to counter them.

As much as I hate blobbing, and rarely blob myself: Let people play how they want to.

I can still roam and duel because my server respects my playstyle; I will totally return that respect and find a way to enjoy myself.

Both types of play can coexist.

Reaper Alim.4176:

Mikhael.2391:

Swagger.1459:

Reaper Alim.4176:

I’m going to get to the point. Honestly mindlessly zerg-balling should not be the be all and end all.(It’s just lazy low risk high reward playstyle.) It’s really gotten so bad to the point most of the WvW community will run away from you unless they have far superior numbers. (There is too much emphasis on mindless mob tactics, in this game mode.) We are to the point where servers are lobbying and paying for other people and guild to transfer to their servers, just because how overpowered the zerg tactic is in this game.

Roamers and Solo players gain little to no rewards compared to the zerg. Yet has to utilize the most skill and tactics to even be viable. (Super high risk – Super low reward playstyle.) I personally think that is a huge problem. More so then the match ups.

People are only bandwagoning to stack servers to gain a higher chance at wining or more rewards(bags and reward track progression) for less skillful play. If you nerf zerg play you can pretty much solve a lot of problems over night with, players manipulating your population counting system and such. Server stacking after every link would instantly be fixed. It’ll also promote people to spread out evenly throughout the servers instead of just stacking for easy bags via outnumbering their enemies.

Some ways that come to my mind on how to solve this.

A.)
Nerf rewards gain based off of numbers. The more players you show up to hit a structure or player. The less reward track and rewards you get.

B.)
The less people you have the killing players or taking objectives. The more reward track progression, and rewards you get.

C.) Way higher outnumbered buff.
The more severely outnumbered you are. The more stats you gain, to equal out for being outnumbered. No PPT change or Karma gain changes. Just pure stat gains.(The other servers who are outnumbering said server should see this and be forced to either decide, to continue their attack against a buffed outnumbered server. Or split up to prevent said server from getting the outnumbered buff.)

D.) A little bit of all of the above mixed together.

Those are just my two cents. Yall are now free to flame me.

You can’t punish players playing in any way… If you can’t handle zergs then spvp is available.

Lol brilliant answer, so people should refrain from roaming and access to other utilities, foods, sigils, runes, siege weapons and keep capture aswell as camps and go spvp in a magical place where diversity has been long forgotten.

That’s exactly his answer. WvW is a game only for players who like to queue maps and roll on one tag, to troll and steam roll small groups. (He is advocating for more skill less F1 numbers over tactical play.) If you don’t like it then leave, he said.

And people wonder why I made this tread in the first place. Because people like subject one. Who probable just bandwagons to what ever server has the highest population in the tier just to steam roll and troll other servers who have no population. He is the exact example of why I said it’s got out of hand. And the zergling play style is just too overpowered to enjoy if you are on a server who are always outnumbered nearly 24/7. Because their is absolutely no counter play to zerglings just steamrolling you with spamming F1 when they outnumber you 3 or 4 to one. (While you can down their players. The rest just revive them.) It’s exactly like fighting 6 Billion Zombies with 100 super humans at best.

That is what I’m saying needs to change. People are not going to not cheese the system, if the system rewards people for cheesing it. I honesty think a big debuff needs to happen to the zergling play style. For good reasons too. It’s just too many people abusing the bandwagon/zergling play style. That the game mode is not fun at all if you find your self on a predominately 24/7 outnumbered server for 4 to 8 weeks. kitten’s really destroying mines and maybe others GW2’s WvW experience.

Just either nerfbat the zerglings or buff those who are severely outnumbered, or close down more severs and give us free server transfer, or just gave us a free transfer period. Or just get rid of the linking system. I’ve never had such a hard time in WvW till the server link became a thing and pretty much buffed the bandwagon play style to epic proportions.

No sPvP is not a substitute for WvW. sPvP is a place where you go if you just don’t want to face some unique builds because you can’t figure a way or put the time and effort to counter them.

WvW is a mode specifically designed for hundreds of players on the map to wage war… If you cant handle realm vs realm gameplay then don’t play it, but to ask the devs to punish players for playing is silly.

I didn’t read the whole thread but I will say this,

Mindless zergs fall apart when you driver snipe; Kill the commander.

The main meat in a big fight should be Revanant/Mesmer boon share, Necro Condi spam buff stripping builds, with pulls for days. Thieves stealth the Condi bursts and watch the midline melt when you spam epidemic and signet of spite with a ranger rooting everything.

I’ve done it to zergs, and its happened to zergs I am in.

Condiburst with boon share is the meta period.
Driver sniping ends zergs.

Not a very fun way to do it but w/e

Jayne.9251:

As much as I hate blobbing, and rarely blob myself: Let people play how they want to.

I can still roam and duel because my server respects my playstyle; I will totally return that respect and find a way to enjoy myself.

Both types of play can coexist.

I seem to remember you had quite a lot of people waiting to kill us at your north camp last time I went there, not just a few more, a lot more than us.

I’ve also seen all 3 servers completely killing any and all duellers this match up. Sad to say but the zerg is winning.

sigrdrifumal.3752

Large groups of players who mindlessly follow the tag should not have an advantage over smaller groups who coordinate their movements and team comp.

I count 10 players in this smaller group

https://youtu.be/fLyI_ztXvDE

That’s just one example, there are plenty of other great organized groups that don’t let the blob have the advantage. In fact I’d argue organized groups have the advantage more often.

You can, too

apharma.3741:

Jayne.9251:

As much as I hate blobbing, and rarely blob myself: Let people play how they want to.

I can still roam and duel because my server respects my playstyle; I will totally return that respect and find a way to enjoy myself.

Both types of play can coexist.

I seem to remember you had quite a lot of people waiting to kill us at your north camp last time I went there, not just a few more, a lot more than us.

I’ve also seen all 3 servers completely killing any and all duellers this match up. Sad to say but the zerg is winning.

Oh that’s only because I asked in map chat if anyone wanted to hold my hand in north camp

You notice they left us alone when you were thwapping me? Lol.

Jayne.9251:

apharma.3741:

Jayne.9251:

As much as I hate blobbing, and rarely blob myself: Let people play how they want to.

I can still roam and duel because my server respects my playstyle; I will totally return that respect and find a way to enjoy myself.

Both types of play can coexist.

I seem to remember you had quite a lot of people waiting to kill us at your north camp last time I went there, not just a few more, a lot more than us.

I’ve also seen all 3 servers completely killing any and all duellers this match up. Sad to say but the zerg is winning.

Oh that’s only because I asked in map chat if anyone wanted to hold my hand in north camp

You notice they left us alone when you were thwapping me? Lol.

I thought it was because they took one look at the condi mesmer and thought “No way you can lose this”

Still there seems to be a lot of roamer and duellist ganking happening atm, I can’t help but think it might have something to do with the sudden increase in PvP pro league players entering WvW and strimming it.

Dude, the mentality won’t ever change and yes it does suck. People like to zerg up and mindlessly spam. On the one hand I get it, lot of people that play this mode work or go to school full time. Relaxing and hanging out with some friends button mashing is a mental escape from the real world.

However, there are those few of us like me, that prefer to live the hermit solo life or hang with a very small group to test their skills. It’s not about the rewards for me personally, just the glory.

Just the way it is I guess and zerging will never change along with the gank squads.

I mentioned something like this in the past.
There should be local, dynamic “outnumbered buff” which gives the smaller group fighting the much bigger group some means to actually deal with the bigger…

Right now most abilities are capped at hitting 5 enemies. What this buff would do is for every 10 (obviously this number an be experimented with) people you are outmanned in the fight, you get to affect +1 target with you abilities. For example this means necro wells will hit 6 enemies or guard will grant stab to 6 allies.
This buff could scale by how much you are outmanned in a fight.
down by 10 players = +1 target,
down by 20 players = +2 targets, etc.

This buff would only be given to players in a certain range from the fight area and as the smaller group gains numbers the buff may change from say +3 targets to +2 targets…

This will give the smaller groups a better chance as wiping a brainless blob that can just run through your dmg because of their numbers…

Smaller more skilled groups should be better at the fighting aspect of wvw, while mindless blobs should be better at the objective capping aspect.

Idk if this is even possible lol but I feel like this sort of change would be fair for both sides…

On the flip side when I roam I find almost exclusively builds that are designed to run away when things get sketchy, or groups of 2-3 people picking on singles. I’m convinced at every level people want to stack whatever they can to their advantage rather than have a good fair fight. Hide in a pile of people, or run cancer builds in small roaming scale setups, in either case people don’t want to actually test their skills they just want to get easy wins.

I don’t know if there’s a way to get people to actually push themselves, but it’s certainly not just a large scale battle thing.

It’s only mindless if you let it be.

Winning 3 to 1 outnumbered has always been possible for good guilds.

You should not be punishing players for having numbers. This is the draw of wvw in the first place. Large scale combat brings alot of dynamics with it. I can see this creating a toxic environment where players will yell each other to kitten off.

Meh who cares. Op is going to come back and create a few more of such threads. 25 threads and hundreds of tears later, this topic will go the way of boonshare.

Jerus.4350:

On the flip side when I roam I find almost exclusively builds that are designed to run away when things get sketchy, or groups of 2-3 people picking on singles. I’m convinced at every level people want to stack whatever they can to their advantage rather than have a good fair fight. Hide in a pile of people, or run cancer builds in small roaming scale setups, in either case people don’t want to actually test their skills they just want to get easy wins.

I don’t know if there’s a way to get people to actually push themselves, but it’s certainly not just a large scale battle thing.

It really is very true.

Admittedly I fall in to the run away category but for the record, I never run from a 1v1 if I think where we’re fighting is a wise place to fight.

I don’t blame people for not wanting to lose. Roaming is a punishing hobby, I can’t say it’s wrong of someone to run from death when they’ve probably died plenty enough in the last few hours thanks to all the blobs that love to run down solos.

Expect people to run when things look grim and it’ll be easier to prevent them from doing so. You’re absolutely right, most people don’t want a challenge, they just want to inflate their ego. Just remember not to get too spiteful of those that run away. Frustrating though it might be, I think most players are afraid of getting a cow dropped on their face, siege thrown on their corpse, emoted on or being left to bleed out. No one likes to be mocked and yet a lot of players love to do it.

One counter point regarding Zerging, it is not the most efficient tactic. It is just the easiest, least risk, and easiest personal reward. It also has the advantage of the strongest benefit in WvW, destroy enemy morale. But for going pure PPT, it is actually pretty mediocre if the enemy is willing to split up, take stuff, and die a couple of times when caught by the zerg.

The problem is that it is indeed low risk, and as long as the enemy players are the same type (mostly fair-weathers), they will get demoralized and won’t try to mount an effective counter play. Thus leaving the map to get karma-trained until they outnumber again.

The inherent problem here is that ANet refuses to change this, because of their golden Care-Bear-Rule: “You should always be happy to see another player on your team”. So they will never make a change to the game that penalizes being more people.

Do like suggestions A+B, unfortunately they will cause problems with the Care-Bear-Rule. The same with C, but I object that for different reasons, If you break a 1vs1 or 5vs5 encounter because of Outnumbered the entire rest of the good combat system goes down the drain. They would need to completely rework how Outnumbered triggered and localize it for that to even remotely work. Prefer to see other changes done to Outnumbered (Like A+B).

As other have suggested, I think one of the ways to combat this is to reward skilled play, especially skilled group play. If a guild runs a dedicated 20 man group with Coms, builds, synergy, trained to pull things of together, they should be able to fight against large zergs, this would make a counter to the zerg, and reward skilled play. And make organized guilds feel a bit more wanted again ?

Hmm, remove heavy loot bags, and enable them with outnumbered ?

Roxanne.6140:

You should not be punishing players for having numbers. This is the draw of wvw in the first place. Large scale combat brings alot of dynamics with it. I can see this creating a toxic environment where players will yell each other to kitten off.

Meh who cares. Op is going to come back and create a few more of such threads. 25 threads and hundreds of tears later, this topic will go the way of boonshare.

True but on the other hand it shouldn’t be as rewarding to blob up in one massive ball training over everything in your path. Especially when they go after small groups all the time offering little way to counter them other than run away and then log off because eff that noise for the 5th time that evening.

I agree with the op , the zerg fight is meaninless, brainless ( it is a matter of numbers ) and boring. The only solution would be a different point system with which if you want to make points you have to split more . The “train” is too strong and too rewarding for people to leave it . The only wave to solve this problem is to force people to split, to make split in littler groups a must

apharma.3741:

Roxanne.6140:

You should not be punishing players for having numbers. This is the draw of wvw in the first place. Large scale combat brings alot of dynamics with it. I can see this creating a toxic environment where players will yell each other to kitten off.

Meh who cares. Op is going to come back and create a few more of such threads. 25 threads and hundreds of tears later, this topic will go the way of boonshare.

True but on the other hand it shouldn’t be as rewarding to blob up in one massive ball training over everything in your path. Especially when they go after small groups all the time offering little way to counter them other than run away and then log off because eff that noise for the 5th time that evening.

I’m sorry your experience is so bad in WvW — but this is a rather shallow, narrow view on WvW. This game mode is designed for large fights. If you are a small-team/solo roamer, then run from zergs — you would do that in real life if you are honest with yourself.

My WvW experiences are very different. I generally get “trained” by small teams that purse a single foe without relenting. Most zergs let single players pass and tell their players “don’t squirrel” — which is an effective tactic against zergs where a single player can strip out 3 or more zerg players (how’s that for a man power trade?).

Every aspect of WvW is unfair — that’s the nature of an open-world pvp system (in any game). If you want small, even-matched, fair fights, then go to sPvP — seriously, no joke.

Only time I ever join a zerg (unofficially, as in I don’t join the squad) is when there is a ZvZ going to happen. Otherwise, havoc/zerg busting for my crew.

I do agree that typical zergs are mindless (deploy as much siege as possible, destroy, cap and move on…rinse and repeat) however in a ZvZ, it takes a bit of skill to survive and come out on top so not ALL zerg play is mindless, just when the are focused on capping stuff.

make all AoE FF on

If you think zergplay is mindless then you need to get on teamspeak and listen to the chat.

If zergplay is still mindless then you need to transfer to a lower pop server.

You only have yourself to blame if your zergplay is mindless.

Funny how people call something mindless when they get outplayed.

juno.1840:

apharma.3741:

Roxanne.6140:

You should not be punishing players for having numbers. This is the draw of wvw in the first place. Large scale combat brings alot of dynamics with it. I can see this creating a toxic environment where players will yell each other to kitten off.

Meh who cares. Op is going to come back and create a few more of such threads. 25 threads and hundreds of tears later, this topic will go the way of boonshare.

True but on the other hand it shouldn’t be as rewarding to blob up in one massive ball training over everything in your path. Especially when they go after small groups all the time offering little way to counter them other than run away and then log off because eff that noise for the 5th time that evening.

I’m sorry your experience is so bad in WvW — but this is a rather shallow, narrow view on WvW. This game mode is designed for large fights. If you are a small-team/solo roamer, then run from zergs — you would do that in real life if you are honest with yourself.

My WvW experiences are very different. I generally get “trained” by small teams that purse a single foe without relenting. Most zergs let single players pass and tell their players “don’t squirrel” — which is an effective tactic against zergs where a single player can strip out 3 or more zerg players (how’s that for a man power trade?).

Every aspect of WvW is unfair — that’s the nature of an open-world pvp system (in any game). If you want small, even-matched, fair fights, then go to sPvP — seriously, no joke.

The term trained over is in relation to the blob being like a train, something you can’t really stop coming, if you’re using it to describe a few people pursuing you then I dunno, guess you’re a solo roamer?

The point is, you get to a tower, say Quentin Lake and it takes you and your 4 other friends 2 mins to get into the tower. Within 30s if you’re lucky enough to not have had someone in the tower or watchtower upgrade spot you someone will head over. Takes about 30s to get there and then the call is sounded by the enemy “bad people at QL need help”.

In waypoints the blob and there you go. This happens a lot when you fight certain well known blob servers in EU, small groups are just not able to do anything but flip camps because of how effective blobbing is. Write disablers also help with blobbing rewarding servers who have more people even if they are also useful to servers with fewer players.

It’s completely irrational to complain about a mode specifically designed to have many players duking it out on maps… If any of you can’t handle large groups running around then don’t enter these zones.

I think all they need to address is to reduce the amount of AOEs damage and Cc, and the amount of Boon spamming, if they tone those down the game mode would be more bearable especially when it comes to zergs/blobs, it would also slightly address the lag when zergs collide.

You can’t stop players from coming together into zerg.