Guild Wars 2

My WvW experience is certainly not extensive, but from what I gather, large zergs are a prominent part of the game. I thought up an idea that could balance out zergs with smaller groups, possibly allowing each to fill distinct roles.

Proposed change: Adjust the movement speed of players based on the number of nearby allies. I have no suggestions on any actual numbers, but the basic thought is 1 guy should sometimes be able to escape from 5 guys if he isn’t caught off guard. A 5 man team can move very quickly, likely escaping from 20. A 20 man team is still more mobile than a 50 man zerg.

In my head, this would lead to a core army like the zergs we see now, maybe a support battalion or two, and a handful of squads. This would lead to coordination being a bit more viable against sheer numbers.

Now, maybe what I’ve experienced, being on TC, may not be the average player experience. So, I’m interested to know what other players think this would do to the game as it currently stands.

This would be awesome. The larger the army the slower it should move. A 50 person army should not be able to zip around the map like they do now.

I do not know if it is possible but the best thing I can see is tieing the in combat movement to the zerg, but make it skill and discipline based.

Within a certain radius (commander buff radius size maybe) any allies that get in combat force you into combat as well.

This means those five man really organized havoc groups are going to be faster then the zergs, and the solo people are going to be even faster then that.

The more disciplined and trained the group is.. the better their response time. This also has the benifit of potentially breaking up the zergs to they can respond faster.

will you be nerfing mesmer portals too? no? then its pointless. People will find ways to get around it, zergs split into tails (no loss of ability as the enemy has to have tails too). You’d effectively change nothing. The only thing you’d stop is an emergency dash to defend your own keep – everyone waypoints to spawn – enemy just got an extra free minute to cap as you move like turtles from spawn (since during a keep map call everyone wp’s soon as they see it, which makes insta-zerg. Silly.
Edit for clarification: Zergs have tails, you’d have to have a whopper of a radius for it to make any real difference at all, zerg tails out – reaches objective, reforms and blob destroys target. no change at all.

You yourself say it causes zergs to split.

Sounds like it worked as I imagined. Small organized groups vs one zerg. even if they group up together for big fights, it gives SOME incentive to split and be organized.

And its not like everyone waits on the zerg when running for a defense.. its an all out rush to get inside unless you already outnumber the enemy.

Obviously, I can see some potential holes in the idea! But what you described, Talissa, seems like it could be a positive change.

There would have to be forethought into where you’re positioning your army. If you take a risk with an attack, you might very well have to sacrifice being able to defend in a reactive way. But if you know that a main army is hitting one of your towers, you know they can’t properly react to what you’re about to do, either.

zerging is encouraged and the most efficient way to win battles and loot, they are not going to punish or limit this in open world areas where they want mass amounts of people to participate in. not saying i’m a huge fan of the need to zerg or die design or don’t want different options for small teams (like maybe instanced areas), i’m just saying.

Everyone who agreed to this probably doesn’t realize it’ll play like being chilled the whole time. People will leave this game in droves if it’s implemented.

The combat mechanics are fine. The rewards are not. Smaller groups should be better rewarded for doing the same things as larger ones. Soloing a supply camp should be 2x the reward of taking it with a 60 man zerg. Capturing a keep with 5 people, same idea.

On the other hand, level of upgrades should also modify the reward both for capture and defense.

First of all, understand this…

Zergs and large battles are what Arenanet wants in terms of gameplay; despite the lagfest and single digit FPS. They think it’s “epic”. Try to get a developer to come here on their own forums and get them to rationalize this gameplay design philosophy and I’ll mail you 100 gold.

Remember that time in Morrowind when you hunted down that little gnome for the super speed boots because running the whole map at normal speed sucked….

Calae.1738:

First of all, understand this…

Zergs and large battles are what Arenanet wants in terms of gameplay; despite the lagfest and single digit FPS. They think it’s “epic”. Try to get a developer to come here on their own forums and get them to rationalize this gameplay design philosophy and I’ll mail you 100 gold.

Nope.

Devon Carver

Everyone who plays WvW has encountered the zerg, either as a member or as a victim. The zerg is an important part of the game, but it shouldn’t be the best strategy for victory.

An important distinction should be made between large, organized groups of players making strategic strikes and mindless groups of players running around in a mob.

Our goal is to continue to encourage organized large groups while giving small, tactical groups the necessary tools to put a dent into larger mobs of less-skilled players.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/devon-carver-on-the-future-of-world-vs-world/

Just denying access to WP’s unless your dead would go a long way imo.

<3 the idea. More slow kitten people for my arrow carts to ruinate.

Markus.9084:

Calae.1738:

First of all, understand this…

Zergs and large battles are what Arenanet wants in terms of gameplay; despite the lagfest and single digit FPS. They think it’s “epic”. Try to get a developer to come here on their own forums and get them to rationalize this gameplay design philosophy and I’ll mail you 100 gold.

Nope.

Devon Carver

Everyone who plays WvW has encountered the zerg, either as a member or as a victim. The zerg is an important part of the game, but it shouldn’t be the best strategy for victory.

An important distinction should be made between large, organized groups of players making strategic strikes and mindless groups of players running around in a mob.

Our goal is to continue to encourage organized large groups while giving small, tactical groups the necessary tools to put a dent into larger mobs of less-skilled players.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/devon-carver-on-the-future-of-world-vs-world/

Interesting. June 5th 2013? Any news on that since then?

Zephyrus.9680:

The combat mechanics are fine. The rewards are not. Smaller groups should be better rewarded for doing the same things as larger ones. Soloing a supply camp should be 2x the reward of taking it with a 60 man zerg. Capturing a keep with 5 people, same idea.

On the other hand, level of upgrades should also modify the reward both for capture and defense.

^^^^^^^^^^

No, I like this idea. Big zergs should move slower and have less rewards. Small groups should move faster and get bigger rewards.

In the real world a smaller group moves faster anyhow. Larger groups need better coordination to move together in a meaningful way. I’d like to see something similar here in WvW and this idea is a great concept — needs to be worked on a bit but the concept is sound.

FYI, Zergs do already move slower than small mans. They create quite a large tail. A 5-main group should be able to methodically pick people off of the tail or cut-off far reinforcements. Even solo you can do this. The larger the group, the more often they have to stop to let everyone catch up, so your idea is already implemented in a sort of way. The key is, your organized smaller groups need to pick the right points for ambush so you can kill a few and not get rolled by the backlash.

BlackBeard.2873:

FYI, Zergs do already move slower than small mans. They create quite a large tail. A 5-main group should be able to methodically pick people off of the tail or cut-off far reinforcements. Even solo you can do this. The larger the group, the more often they have to stop to let everyone catch up, so your idea is already implemented in a sort of way. The key is, your organized smaller groups need to pick the right points for ambush so you can kill a few and not get rolled by the backlash.

Not exactly true.

Say that small group does successfully catch the tail and the zerg takes the 20 seconds to turn around. Guess what? Your small group is most likely still in combat and the zerg is running at full speed.

OP’s idea is brilliant. I would love incentives for folks to break into smaller bands. Even 10v10’s are a joy compared to the 30v30 dustups.

The most fun I’ve had in wvw is either completely goofing off by RP walking with tonics or all 3 world’s in one epic battle for a Lord room. There are many of us whom enjoy the large battles. So no thank you to this idea.

Seems like you’re neglecting immobilizes…if you guys get stuck, you’re dead.