Guild Wars 2

I would like some feedback on Necros in WvW after the major buffs they got earlier.

• Access to two new conditions
• Decrease in recharge of several abilities
• Slight increase in condition duration on many abilities

While I realise that the general consensus previous to this buff was that necromancers were underpowered in WvW (although I wouldn’t entirely agree myself), I also feel that these changes may have been too much, primarily because Arena Net made it harder to cleanse conditions in three different ways through adding new conditions, longer durations, and shorter cooldown on the spells that inflict them. A Necro built entirely around conditions can easily deal 1,5-2k condition damage every second with the additional spike (+ stun) through Terror, something that was also made more available through the buff. They are also able to maintain medium / good toughness and / or vitality with Valkyrie / Cavalier’s armor. Couple this with their triple health bar through DS and Plague Form and they can sustain themselves for a very long time even when focused, off-setting some of the squishiness that comes through Spite and Curses (although from what I can tell, most Necros seem to opt out of putting many points into these trees).

I will admit that I don’t have much experience with large scale combat, since I tend to run in groups of 2-3 myself, but from what I have heard Necros were good before the buff and great now. In smaller scale groups they seem to be extraordinarily strong however, and particularly so against groups that don’t have a lot of spike damage. I am not asking to be able to cleanse every condition continously here, and I agree that uncleansed conditions should hurt alot, but as it is now I am basically forced to run around and try to gain distance on the Necro while my partner(s) try to take them down. There just isn’t enough cleansing in the world to counter a majority of the conditions they put out. After this buff Necromancers have transformed into prio #1 whenever we seem them in an enemy group. Pretty much every veteran Necro player I know seems to agree that condition builds are over the top now, and even mediocre players are doing very well with them.

I personally feel that making a profession overpowered (even slightly) may never be the solution to an underpowered profession. That will lead to an unfortunate inflation of power across the board for professions. Rather, the changes to Warrior are what I would consider a good buff.

TLDR; are condition Necros too strong in WvW, or are they in a good spot right now?

Still no escapeability. The Map is big, kite them and kill them…

tPvP on the other hand…

It often looks worse than it is..just because you have 6 different conditions on you doesn’t mean that you have 25 stacks of each.

As a melee class id much rather come up against a necro than a condition stacking thief disappearing all the time…less conditions but the stacks really get you eventually given the fact that you have to constantly pick up your target again.

I don’t have a problem with either btw. Some fights are easy and some are hard..

Zumy.6318:

Still no escapeability. The Map is big, kite them and kill them…

tPvP on the other hand…

Easy access to Cripple, Chill and Fear makes it hard to kite Necros around because how hard cleansing has become after the patch. Killing them while doing so is not an option for everyone either.

Bokitten.6591:

It often looks worse than it is..just because you have 6 different conditions on you doesn’t mean that you have 25 stacks of each.

As a melee class id much rather come up against a necro than a condition stacking thief disappearing all the time…less conditions but the stacks really get you eventually given the fact that you have to constantly pick up your target again.

I don’t have a problem with either btw. Some fights are easy and some are hard..

It’s very easy to achieve 2k damage every second with additional Terror spikes, you don’t need to apply anywhere near 25 stacks for that.

I find it very hard to believe that you have more trouble with Thieves by the way. Cleansing bleeding is not hard compared to cleansing 5-6 conditions that are reapplied often. The sheer damage that Necros put out through their conditions is very large in comparison to Thieves, too. Perhaps in a 1v1 duel where the Thief has all the time in the world to whittle you down, but realistically that’s less that 1% of fights in WvW.

The problems in sPvP are usually made much worse in WvW. As strong as the Necro is in sPVP, it has very obvious problems. It’s trained down with little effort. The condition damage is bursty on demand, but has a 20second cycle time which is fine for sPvP but not for WvW where the most common classes are the same ones that cleanse conditions with ease.

Balancing for WvW is a lost cause generally. The goal should be to balance the game around sPvP while ensuring each class has at least the basics required to handle WvW (stability, avoidance, and mitigation) which the Necro really doesn’t have right now.

Like pretty much every post. Someone post something intelligent like op ten people come out of wood works reply with absolutely uninformed replies.
Necros are over the top atm they need to tone the damage down a bit.

I still see only few Necros in wvsw, but i see toons of Guardians on wvsw.
Thar really means not necro are on the top but guardians.
Necro mobility, defence abilitys, escape options are so poor in wvsw that more “experienced” players rerol necro to guards, mesmers, thiefs, rangers, and eles ofc. becose they are mutch beter in wvsw. Necro just die to fast in “bad fights” and noone like to play a class where is no options to real escape, and yu need to take almost all the hits on your chest. Necro is only good in zergs , and when defend towers, keeps when fight near doors. Necro is my main (play him almost from the begining, muth more than 1k hours, 90% on wvsw) but i make a mesmer- to have muth more options to pursuit/escape enemys.
Pliss tell me that i just dont know the class, cannot play necro and i tell a heresy here

The Necromancer is not very exceptional in 1 on 1 combat compared to other classes, like say, thieves or dueling mesmers. In a zerg however they are lethal. Remember all those threads you had complaining about Zerg blobbing and their being no counter? Well, the Necromancer is turning into the counter. Epidemic, Life Transfer+Healing to allies, Wells that turns boons into conditions, Spectral Wall, Increase size of marks, all of it just screams anti-zerg abilities.

KlausKNT.9302:

I still see only few Necros in wvsw, but i see toons of Guardians on wvsw.
Thar really means not necro are on the top but guardians.
Necro mobility, defence abilitys, escape options are so poor in wvsw that more “experienced” players rerol necro to guards, mesmers, thiefs, rangers, and eles ofc. becose they are mutch beter in wvsw.

That’s not my impression at all. I have been seeing a lot more Necros even after the patch, and I still see them so I don’t think it’s a case of just trying the changes out. There is no doubt that Necros have become stronger with the patch, that’s obvious.

Necro just die to fast in “bad fights” and noone like to play a class where is no options to real escape, and yu need to take almost all the hits on your chest.

Again, this is not what I have experienced. You have three health pools, and with the increased accessibility of boon removal and fear (Spectral Wall anyone?) it’s really quite easy to shake people off. Just because you often take unmitigated damage doesn’t mean you will die instantly.

KlausKNT.9302:

Necro is only good in zergs , and when defend towers, keeps when fight near doors. Necro is my main (play him almost from the begining, muth more than 1k hours, 90% on wvsw) but i make a mesmer- to have muth more options to pursuit/escape enemys.
Pliss tell me that i just dont know the class, cannot play necro and i tell a heresy here

I’m not gonna tell you that you are bad at your profession, but the things you describe sounds odd in comparison to my experience. Or maybe it’s just the fact that you have pretty much only played Necro and don’t realise that other professions have weaknesses too?

Aeros.2046:

The Necromancer is not very exceptional in 1 on 1 combat compared to other classes, like say, thieves or dueling mesmers. In a zerg however they are lethal. Remember all those threads you had complaining about Zerg blobbing and their being no counter? Well, the Necromancer is turning into the counter. Epidemic, Life Transfer+Healing to allies, Wells that turns boons into conditions, Spectral Wall, Increase size of marks, all of it just screams anti-zerg abilities.

While I personally don’t believe that Necros are very good 1v1 except against a few select builds / professions (which is normal), I don’t think you have to amp up the scale to “zerg” for them to be incredibly effective.

KlausKNT.9302:

I still see only few Necros in wvsw, but i see toons of Guardians on wvsw. Thar really means not necro are on the top but guardians. (…) Necro just die to fast in “bad fights” and noone like to play a class where is no options to real escape, and yu need to take almost all the hits on your chest.

I love to play necro, and I don’t want to accept that they are the hardest to play and less “powerful” class… but they are.

Their main problem is not their direct damage, their condition damage, or event their stupid minions. And their high HP and defense are very nice. But they have no chance to escape from damage.

They are slow, they have no extra dodges, no “phantasmal” form to evade attacks, no blocks, no invulnerability, no nothing. From afar, they are ok, but if an enemy get to you, you are in trouble: kill or be killed, but you will need to resist all his attacks.

Morbridae.8607:

I love to play necro, and I don’t want to accept that they are the hardest to play and less “powerful” class… but they are.

While I want this thread to be full of constructive discussion, and while I dont want to shoot people down, if you are going to claim that Necromancers are the weakest profession in WvW I really don’t think you have enough experience to make an accurate judgment on anything related to profession balance.

EFWinters.5421:

Morbridae.8607:

I love to play necro, and I don’t want to accept that they are the hardest to play and less “powerful” class… but they are.

While I want this thread to be full of constructive discussion, and while I dont want to shoot people down, if you are going to claim that Necromancers are the weakest profession in WvW I really don’t think you have enough experience to make an accurate judgment on anything related to profession balance.

Agreed… Necros are one of the premier power classes in a zerg setting. They are also formidable on a skirmish team. I agree their limited mobility in solo fights is a hindrance but they more than make up for it in other areas.

OP… no, powerful… certainly

EFWinters.5421:

KlausKNT.9302:

I still see only few Necros in wvsw, but i see toons of Guardians on wvsw.
Thar really means not necro are on the top but guardians.
Necro mobility, defence abilitys, escape options are so poor in wvsw that more “experienced” players rerol necro to guards, mesmers, thiefs, rangers, and eles ofc. becose they are mutch beter in wvsw.

That’s not my impression at all. I have been seeing a lot more Necros even after the patch, and I still see them so I don’t think it’s a case of just trying the changes out. There is no doubt that Necros have become stronger with the patch, that’s obvious.

If yu are here from long time , yu shal notice that ele numbers have been decrased, guard numbers just go on top now (trooling thiefs- dont whone tell about this). There are more necro now, ofc. new players like to try this class ( i heard necro is op lets try it ) becose they think its a good class, but most of them rerol fast to other class (before almost no necro here).

KlausKNT.9302:

Necro just die to fast in “bad fights” and noone like to play a class where is no options to real escape, and yu need to take almost all the hits on your chest.

EFWinters.5421:

Again, this is not what I have experienced. You have three health pools, and with the increased accessibility of boon removal and fear (Spectral Wall anyone?) it’s really quite easy to shake people off. Just because you often take unmitigated damage doesn’t mean you will die instantly.

If yu go on this way- all class have TWO health pools, necro have three.
Btw Necro and warior have top HP poll and both are the easiest class to kill in gw2- ironic isnt this??
If yu noticed last patch now regen life force is muth slower in group fights (nerf for specrtal skills-essential for LF regen).
If yu read last patchs- boon removal have been nerfed
On focus fire this extra live poll will go out in 2 or 3 seconds, and with almost no stability (30 points in SR for 3 seconds in DS- joke?? ) yu are like pingpong ball stunned, pushed, feared etc. (horrible stunbreakers).
Not die instantly ofc.- in “bad fights” its like a zoombie fight- yu know yu cannot run and yu die, enemy know this to- so lets do this

KlausKNT.9302:

Necro is only good in zergs , and when defend towers, keeps when fight near doors. Necro is my main (play him almost from the begining, muth more than 1k hours, 90% on wvsw) but i make a mesmer- to have muth more options to pursuit/escape enemys.
Pliss tell me that i just dont know the class, cannot play necro and i tell a heresy here

EFWinters.5421:

I’m not gonna tell you that you are bad at your profession, but the things you describe sounds odd in comparison to my experience. Or maybe it’s just the fact that you have pretty much only played Necro and don’t realise that other professions have weaknesses too?

[/quote]

Yu must know someting -i have necro, warior, mesmer, ele,thief,guard, ranger. Almost all on lvl 80, full geared on 2 options (dps/tank).
All classes have weaknes ofc. but in fights/groupfights yu need 3 things to win:
1. DPS- to kill enemy (burst or condi)
2. CC to hold enemy in 1 position to he can get “damage train” -great in group fights
3. Escape option to run from “dps train” (stun breakers, teleports, inv, block, stealth…)
If yu lack from option 1- yu will not kill anyone in fight by yourself
if yu have nice option1 and lack from option 3- yu will die fast on ff and do no dps , (ded pll=no dps)
If yu have option 1, and 3- yu are good class and your skills,enemy skill, numbers of ally/enemy will tell here who will win.
Witch options from 1,2,3 have necro??
If yu play it enought yu shal know, its not so hard to see this
Why so mutch players play guardian now??
Why guardian is in ALL tpvp teams??
Why i play more mesmer now??
Why so mutch players not like Burst/troll (almost perma stealth) thiefs??
Its really not so hard to answer for this questions , i think YOU know why
Greetings

Despite asking for opinions, it is pretty clear the OP has already decided that necros are too powerful. What I find funny is that he plays a guardian and complains about how hard it is to remove conditions. Run a 0/0/10/30/30 shout build with pure of voice and soldier runes. SYG/HTL/SY gives you 6 conditions removed instantly if you need it. Absolute resolution gives you another 3 removed, renewed focus to remove an additional 3 almost instantly if you have a lot of condi pressure. Purity and signet of resolve give you another 2 conditions removed every 10 seconds passively. Not to mention 2 of your shouts are stunbreakers to instantly remove fear, and SYG and indomitable courage both give you stability so that fear will never even affect you. All this plus blocks from aegis/weapon skills and dodging through marks and you should almost never have any conditions on you. Next time rather than asking whether other classes are too powerful, maybe you should go to the guardian forums and ask for help on match-ups that you are having trouble with, especially when it sounds like you have little if any experience playing necros.

Waffler.1257:

Despite asking for opinions, it is pretty clear the OP has already decided that necros are too powerful.

I think they are too powerful, yes.

Waffler.1257:

What I find funny is that he plays a guardian and complains about how hard it is to remove conditions.

I play all professions at level 80. My guardian is my main on this account, but I have played Guardian far less than most other professions. I don’t think it’s very smart of you to discuss this topic from a Guardian point of view. If you discuss Thieves from a Guardian POV, you would conclude that they are weak 1v1. The opposite goes for Mesmers vs Guardians. I find it slightly upsetting that you should take on such a hostily approach to this thread while lacking the basic understand of how to discuss a topic like this. Now that we have that out of the way;

Waffler.1257:

Run a 0/0/10/30/30 shout build with pure of voice and soldier runes. SYG/HTL/SY gives you 6 conditions removed instantly if you need it.

The reason you won’t see Guardians use Soldier’s Runes is because their shouts, unlike Warrior shouts, are very situational. FGJ will be spammed on recharge, Shake It Off is used to cleanse conditions regardless, and Fear Me is generally good to use while taking pressure (from Conditions or otherwise, or both). You mention SY. The very notion of using SY when you are playing against a Necro that has undoubtedly the strongest AoE condition in the game amuses me to no end, especially when you say it’s used to cleanse conditions

Have you heard of the skill Corrupt Boons btw? Well of Corruption? No?

Waffler.1257:

Absolute resolution gives you another 3 removed, renewed focus to remove an additional 3 almost instantly if you have a lot of condi pressure. Purity and signet of resolve give you another 2 conditions removed every 10 seconds passively.

Yes, Absolute Resolution is the major source of Cleansing from me. My point is that they are not enough.

Regarding Purity and Signet of Resolve: True, but these cleanses will most often be eaten up by short term conditions applied through autoattacking, since they are in 90% of the cases applied last. Remember also, that these condition removals tick every 10 seconds even when you are not in combat or if you don’t have any conditions at all, making them highly unreliable. Remember too, that Necros have very easy access to Poison, which hurts Signet of Resolve a lot more than for examle Shelter, because it doesn’t affect the blocking portion of that.

Waffler.1257:

Not to mention 2 of your shouts are stunbreakers to instantly remove fear, and SYG and indomitable courage both give you stability so that fear will never even affect you.

I think it would be naive to think that you can maintain stability against a good Necro, and I’ll just leave it at that.

Waffler.1257:

All this plus blocks from aegisweapon skills and dodging through marks and you should almost never have any conditions on you. Next time rather than asking whether other classes are too powerful, maybe you should go to the guardian forums and ask for help on match-ups that you are having trouble with, especially when it sounds like you have little if an/y experience playing necros.

While I am unsure how Aegis will help me against a Necro, I appreciate your tips. I will definitely go look at the Guardian forum, but as I said. This thread was not from a Guardian POV. Generally speaking I believe Necros are slightly too powerful in WvW, and nothing you have written has changed that.

TLDR; stop discussing this topic from any profession’s point of view.

I play a necro all the time in wvw and there not to powerful at all.
yes you are slightly better with them in a blob with the wells,but 1 vs 1 against most classes no chance.
So tell me when a guardian,ele,ranger,mes,warrior in 1vs1 can take us down quite easy if there good at there class.so how are we are too powerful?

Infact our dmg suxed for so long this tiny buff is welcome.
then there’s the rearranging some stuff in our traits now so have to use extra points to get to them.
So plz if you want to look for op classes look at the mes or guardian.

XxTAFxX.6741:

I play a necro all the time in wvw and there not to powerful at all.
yes you are slightly better with them in a blob with the wells,but 1 vs 1 against most classes no chance.
So tell me when a guardian,ele,ranger,mes,warrior in 1vs1 can take us down quite easy if there good at there class.so how are we are too powerful?

Infact our dmg suxed for so long this tiny buff is welcome.
then there’s the rearranging some stuff in our traits now so have to use extra points to get to them.
So plz if you want to look for op classes look at the mes or guardian.

Because how good a profession is in WvW is not judged through their aptness for a 1v1.

And again, saying that Necros are not “powerful at all” in WvW is not painting them in the right light.

EFWinters.5421:

XxTAFxX.6741:

I play a necro all the time in wvw and there not to powerful at all.
yes you are slightly better with them in a blob with the wells,but 1 vs 1 against most classes no chance.
So tell me when a guardian,ele,ranger,mes,warrior in 1vs1 can take us down quite easy if there good at there class.so how are we are too powerful?

Infact our dmg suxed for so long this tiny buff is welcome.
then there’s the rearranging some stuff in our traits now so have to use extra points to get to them.
So plz if you want to look for op classes look at the mes or guardian.

Because how good a profession is in WvW is not judged through their aptness for a 1v1.

So what your saying now is a class is now judge if it’s in a blob?
lets be real here balance goes by 1v1 not blob vs blob.
and most classes out do a necro anyway.

oh yeah i never said not powerful i said not to powerful.another words there no way op like the mes or guardian.

XxTAFxX.6741:

EFWinters.5421:

XxTAFxX.6741:

I play a necro all the time in wvw and there not to powerful at all.
yes you are slightly better with them in a blob with the wells,but 1 vs 1 against most classes no chance.
So tell me when a guardian,ele,ranger,mes,warrior in 1vs1 can take us down quite easy if there good at there class.so how are we are too powerful?

Infact our dmg suxed for so long this tiny buff is welcome.
then there’s the rearranging some stuff in our traits now so have to use extra points to get to them.
So plz if you want to look for op classes look at the mes or guardian.

Because how good a profession is in WvW is not judged through their aptness for a 1v1.

So what your saying now is a class is now judge if it’s in a blob?
lets be real here balance goes by 1v1 not blob vs blob.
and most classes out do a necro anyway.

oh yeah i never said not powerful i said not to powerful.another words there no way op like the mes or guardian.

I’m not sure why you instantly went from 1v1 -> blob. There’s plenty in between. If you actually read the thread you would see my stance what you should balance professions around.

Necros are an extremely powerful class when played correctly but they suffer from extremely hard counters do to their lack of stability, vigor, protection(6 seconds every 48-60s doesn’t really count imo), blocks, invulns, etc. Necros are really nice in zergs where they can not be the focus of a group, but in small group combat your group really has to baby you. The necro that everyone is complaining about right now is about as glassy as you can be.

Once ANet does some of the changes you can see on the necro forums I think you will find we are much better balanced. We wouldn’t have the burst that we have right now(from things like dhuumfire) but we would gain a bit more survivability so that we don’t be nuked immediately. Remember, ANet said that they wanted necros to be an attrition class, not a burst class. Complain about necros like most necro fans are. We are not what out class is supposed to be so I don’t think we can be fairly judged as anything more than just wrong right now.

Again, necros can be wonderful when you play them correctly but if you think about it necros are very easy to counter in small groups.

Necros have always been one of the most useful and powerful classes in wvw, I really dont know what some of you are saying… ???
Blinds, poison etc + insane damage + plague etc. Aoe, aoe and more aoe. Use a power build when zerging.

If you mean roaming then your not talking about wvw sorry, thats not wvw, you should specify that you mean roaming withing wvw.
If you roam then condi build is preferred imo, get a terror/burning build and honestly you should win 90% of your 1v1 encounters.

I run soldier runes on my guard and necros that focus purely on conditions don’t stand a chance against me, guardians can out-cleanse necros anyday assuming the guardian isn’t stupid. Also, maybe you haven’t heard but corrupt boon was nerfed to only remove 5 conditions and as such almost never removes stability anymore as it doesn’t seem to be prioritized. If you go browse the necro forums for builds you will see that most don’t even run it anymore as its main utility was converting stability which it can no longer do reliably. I dropped corrupt boon on my necro as well. As for well of corruption, I’m sorry if you think standing in wells is a good strategy. Whether a profession is too powerful or not depends entirely on its abilities relative to other professions, so I don’t understand why you don’t want to talk about necros from the perspective of other classes. Listing a profession’s abilities by themselves without reference to how other classes can counter those abilities provides no basis for judging whether they are balanced.

Waffler.1257:

I run soldier runes on my guard and necros that focus purely on conditions don’t stand a chance against me, guardians can out-cleanse necros anyday assuming the guardian isn’t stupid. Also, maybe you haven’t heard but corrupt boon was nerfed to only remove 5 conditions and as such almost never removes stability anymore as it doesn’t seem to be prioritized. If you go browse the necro forums for builds you will see that most don’t even run it anymore as its main utility was converting stability which it can no longer do reliably. I dropped corrupt boon on my necro as well. As for well of corruption, I’m sorry if you think standing in wells is a good strategy. Whether a profession is too powerful or not depends entirely on its abilities relative to other professions, so I don’t understand why you don’t want to talk about necros from the perspective of other classes. Listing a profession’s abilities by themselves without reference to how other classes can counter those abilities provides no basis for judging whether they are balanced.

Standing in wells is a good strategy? Ahahah man just stop posting.

they gave one spec thief-like dps, and then almost immediately nerfed it.

nothing to see here, move along

Boohoo, just another QQ’er mad cause he lost a free-kill on the battlefield.

I play all professions at level 80.

Then play your Necromancer if you honestly consider them too powerful. But I think you prefer something cheesy that already is and has been OP for the longest time; namely Support Guardian / DD Ele / Shatter Mesmer that I picked up from an older post by you.

The reason you won’t see Guardians use Soldier’s Runes is because their shouts, unlike Warrior shouts, are very situational.

• Run your blob optimized support build and have others help you out against pesky Necromancers that yourself then picked as a nemesis.
• Run something more selfish and laugh at Necromancers.
  Your choice really. Shouts/Soldiers situational on a Guardian? /Facepalm

Just FYI. A Necromancer built for AoE has lesser fears and slow regen of Life Force, making it harder to pop into Death Shroud on demand. A Necromancer built with Life Force in mind, won’t have upgraded Marks. I.E. Balance.

At a minimum, I think the 40% condition duration food needs to go from WvW. Just as the pre-nerf pie was way over the top with high crit builds, it’s absolutely ridiculous to have a food that on paper increases the effectiveness of a class by 40%.

I think it’s also a bit ridiculous to see an entire wall glowing red with with marks and how punishing they can be in the field when the zerglings don’t pay any attention to positioning. However, as with many of the problems with wvw, this is a byproduct of the blob mentality.

EFWinters.5421:

Couple this with their triple health bar …

Sadly, no longer the case since last patch! Oh woe is me! And I’d just discovered our only escape mechanism .. now gone (jump over that cliff and pop DS)!

Life Force now inextricably linked to HP. Any damage we take while in DS overspills into our HP .. and no heal while in DS. So now we go into DS to sustain and it don’t work..

from the organized group point of view Necros are pretty much where they were before the patch – 1 necro per 10 ppl in your raid and it has to be power well bomber, conditions are useless in mass fight …

The problerm with necros in WvWvW is simple: Anet doesn’t know the concept of condition damage.

Right now a build condition has all the advantages of a power build (spike damage included: fear, terror, dummy fire) and none of the disadvantages.

The necromancer is balanced to play against elementarist and guardians… the problem is that other classes do not take off their condition every second.

Im probably going against the grain right here, but I feel they are hitting like a truck in 1v1s now.

Condition damage necro op enough said!

Gambit.8425:

Boohoo, just another QQ’er mad cause he lost a free-kill on the battlefield.

I play all professions at level 80.

Then play your Necromancer if you honestly consider them too powerful. But I think you prefer something cheesy that already is and has been OP for the longest time; namely Support Guardian / DD Ele / Shatter Mesmer that I picked up from an older post by you.

The reason you won’t see Guardians use Soldier’s Runes is because their shouts, unlike Warrior shouts, are very situational.

• Run your blob optimized support build and have others help you out against pesky Necromancers that yourself then picked as a nemesis.
• Run something more selfish and laugh at Necromancers.
  Your choice really. Shouts/Soldiers situational on a Guardian? /Facepalm

If you want to convince me that Necros aren’t too powerful then at least attempt to do so, instead of posting this angry rambling that still fail to adress the problems as a whole by looking at Necros from a Guardian POV. I have discussed that to death already.

Gambit.8425:

Just FYI. A Necromancer built for AoE has lesser fears and slow regen of Life Force, making it harder to pop into Death Shroud on demand. A Necromancer built with Life Force in mind, won’t have upgraded Marks. I.E. Balance.

Every decent (non-blobber) Necro I know will farm Life Force if they are low on it after a fight ends.

Bloodwort MacFangho.4638:

EFWinters.5421:

Couple this with their triple health bar …

Sadly, no longer the case since last patch! Oh woe is me! And I’d just discovered our only escape mechanism .. now gone (jump over that cliff and pop DS)!

Life Force now inextricably linked to HP. Any damage we take while in DS overspills into our HP .. and no heal while in DS. So now we go into DS to sustain and it don’t work..

If you think jumping off a cliff and popping DS is a viable escape mechanism throughout WvW you must be picking where you fight very carefully. Beyond that I don’t quite understand your post. What the ONLY point you were trying to make that DS + jump off a cliff doesn’t work anymore?

EFWinters.5421:

Bloodwort MacFangho.4638:

EFWinters.5421:

Couple this with their triple health bar …

Sadly, no longer the case since last patch! Oh woe is me! And I’d just discovered our only escape mechanism .. now gone (jump over that cliff and pop DS)!

Life Force now inextricably linked to HP. Any damage we take while in DS overspills into our HP .. and no heal while in DS. So now we go into DS to sustain and it don’t work..

If you think jumping off a cliff and popping DS is a viable escape mechanism throughout WvW you must be picking where you fight very carefully. Beyond that I don’t quite understand your post. What the ONLY point you were trying to make that DS + jump off a cliff doesn’t work anymore?

No .. I don’t think that because Necros have bugger all escape mechanisms, unless specifically traited to escape fights. I was aiming for a bit of light humour while correcting you on the point that whereas before the latest patch, a Necro had 2 distinct health bars – our HP and our DS Life Force, and these were effectively separately maintained, post patch, they are linked. If the damage we take in DS is greater than our LF, we now lose HP with the overspill. Our survivability is, hence, nerfed.

If you still don’t understand what I am driving at, then you are so convinced of your own arguments that it isn’t worth discussing further.

I am mostly a solo roamer in WvWvW, but also member of a prominent guild and a Pug commander.

After the necro buffs there has been a lot more necros in the game. I would say their number has been tripled. Some the best guild-vs-guild (gvg) teams are now running 5+ necros for a very good reason.

I feel that conditions are even stronger in WvWvW (than in pvp) when it comes to small scale. Cheap consumables, like koi cakes, gives +40% condition duration. This food + armor runes + traits allow necromancers to have even over +100% duration to bleeding. The conditions really hurt like a brick.

In 1 vs 1 I have gotten huge condition spike that seem to tick over 5k/second. Even with a relatively big health pool and my engineer having the ability to heal over 60k/second (that is much more healing than most players ever have), I was going down very fast. But I lost just one such 1vs1. In other case I managed to kill that same glass cannon condition spike necro from downed state. I very rarely lose 1 vs 1. E.g. last night I was winning also against other engis with ease.

My warrior has crazy amount of condition removal, so I was able to beat a conditionmancer in 1 vs 1 using my hybrid power + condi dual swords warrior. But I can imagine most players are not able to cleanse off 5+ conditions several times per minute, thus they could have lost that battle due having so many shut down conditions as well ( blind, weakness, chill, besides burn, poison, bleed, cripple). Currently blind, chill and weakness really hurt most offensive builds really strong and necro has good access to all those. And did I mention fear. Most players don’t have much stability (it is a rare boon) and stun breakers have long cool down.

I also have a level 80 necro and sometimes use it in WvWvW. I feel that most of the buffs to necromancer were unnecessary. Necromancer wasn’t a weak profession for WvWvW.

Giving necromancers access to burning was a mistake. Now dhumfire is nerfed for pvp (2 seconds), but still does full 4 seconds in WvWvW (what’s the logic!!?). Increased radius for marks allow now necromancers to pass the greater marks trait and allocate even more points to offense. I think most necromancers are running very offensive builds in WvWvW. They complain that they have no defense, no stun breaks, but of course if you only spew for offense, you lack in defense. Necromancers have two real weaknesses: low mobility and lack of blocks, access to vigor. Other than that they are now the king of conditions (crown taken from engineer) and masters of dps and AoE pressure with the ability to run full berserker or rampager and still having huge health pool (together with death shroud).

Bloodwort MacFangho.4638:

EFWinters.5421:

Bloodwort MacFangho.4638:

EFWinters.5421:

Couple this with their triple health bar …

Sadly, no longer the case since last patch! Oh woe is me! And I’d just discovered our only escape mechanism .. now gone (jump over that cliff and pop DS)!

Life Force now inextricably linked to HP. Any damage we take while in DS overspills into our HP .. and no heal while in DS. So now we go into DS to sustain and it don’t work..

If you think jumping off a cliff and popping DS is a viable escape mechanism throughout WvW you must be picking where you fight very carefully. Beyond that I don’t quite understand your post. What the ONLY point you were trying to make that DS + jump off a cliff doesn’t work anymore?

No .. I don’t think that because Necros have bugger all escape mechanisms, unless specifically traited to escape fights. I was aiming for a bit of light humour while correcting you on the point that whereas before the latest patch, a Necro had 2 distinct health bars – our HP and our DS Life Force, and these were effectively separately maintained, post patch, they are linked. If the damage we take in DS is greater than our LF, we now lose HP with the overspill. Our survivability is, hence, nerfed.

If you still don’t understand what I am driving at, then you are so convinced of your own arguments that it isn’t worth discussing further.

I just don’t understand how you can make that statement and then conclude that Necros don’t have three health bars? If anything, popping into DS and avoiding an 8k Backstab every x seconds would imply that you have more than three health bars.

While I would love to be proven wrong, far fetched arguments like yours, implicating weaknesses like a lack of mobility and vigor (as if every profession didn’t have similar weaknesses?), or personal attacks on me, my build or team composition will do absolutely nothing to prove that.

My baseline was that due to the triple buffs that Necros received in WvW, along with foods like 40% condition duration etc, their conditions hit for way to much, and are way too hard to cleanse. Arena Net has said all along that conditions should be about attrition. Well as it is right now a Necro can spike down players quicker than most other professions only through the usage of conditions, while still maintaining their traditional advantages such as immunity to blind, blocks, reduction in healing etc etc.

If you can provide me with some credible argument that the stuff I write in the above paragraph is NOT true, then by all means I am prepared to change my stance on Necros.

EFWinters.5421 – You shal just find a way out , like necros before patch on clifss :
http://i.imgur.com/Iyz1FNM.gif
And i dont care what yu think about this, its developers job to make game playable , not QQ players asking for nerf all what they cant kill becose of some reasons
It is weery simple mechanic based on ability to statistic people loking for best chioces,
Yu can easy see what is going on only to look on numbers of players playing some classes.
ANET try to make classes on choices witch shall be almost equal good in play (ok yu have 10 credits so yu need to choose : for this you can get 2 apple and 1 banana or 2 banaas and 1 apple, or yu like 3 aplle or 3 bananas?- so choose here what you like the most) easy hm?
WRONG
It is easy only on theorycrafting :P
This need Time, time and loost , loots of tests to work correctly
If yo dont see some classes generally on wvsw- that means someting wrong witch it now (or yu see small numbers of players playing it).
If yu see that most players now play only 1 of the 8 classes- means someting hapen chere that make this class best choice for play for most players.
Last time i noticed less eles around(still here but not so mutch like before nerfing)
I see lost of guards ewerywhere last time, and i noticed there are more necros than before (before almost noone play necro)
Nerfs/bufs always are in ALL mmos, we need time here – time is vital in balance process
Developers try to make this game playable to all players witch ALL CLASSES.
Thats why they nerf/buf someting. Sometimes they do mistake, but they are people, and i think that finaly ANET will find and make best choices to make this game enjoyable and playable for MOST people.
If yu dont agree wit this you can just make a “ragequit” if yu like:
http://i.imgur.com/Iyz1FNM.gif
But this will not change anyting during this proces to complete
Just read my post before this if yu look for some answers
Greetings!!

I too have played most professions in WvW, so I know baseless tears when I see them. For blob AoE/siege damage Elemental is still the undisputed king. If you bring a bunker to 1vs1 a Necro, yes you will have problems due to Necros debuffing abilities. It’s all down to your own spec. Necro have several hard counters like spike damage, stuns and condition removable builds like an Engineers. None of which you seem to bring in your own skirmish group. L2adapt to another viable threat on the playground.

Sorry but I think this is working exactly as intended. Bad players die good players prevail.

Sounds familiar?

Some of the claims here are just so over-the-top silly it’s embarrassing. Full berserker AoE Necros that doesn’t fall over if you sneeze on them? Yeah, right. Even a full rabid Necro can go down in seconds if caught off-guard or with cooldowns.

Gambit.8425:

I too have played most professions in WvW, so I know baseless tears when I see them. For blob AoE/siege damage Elemental is still the undisputed king. If you bring a bunker to 1vs1 a Necro, yes you will have problems due to Necros debuffing abilities. It’s all down to your own spec. Necro have several hard counters like spike damage, stuns and condition removable builds like an Engineers. None of which you seem to bring in your own skirmish group. L2adapt to another viable threat on the playground.

Sorry but I think this is working exactly as intended. Bad players die good players prevail.

Sounds familiar?

Some of the claims here are just so over-the-top silly it’s embarrassing. Full berserker AoE Necros that doesn’t fall over if you sneeze on them? Yeah, right. Even a full rabid Necro can go down in seconds if caught off-guard or with cooldowns.

Yes I could go on and quote all your “baseless tears” about thieves and DD eles, but I won’t, because they are just as irrelevant to this thread as these statements you keep throwing out without any form of fact to back them up. I also find it amusing how you keep putting words in my mouth, like so;

Gambit.8425:

Some of the claims here are just so over-the-top silly it’s embarrassing. Full berserker AoE Necros that doesn’t fall over if you sneeze on them? Yeah, right. Even a full rabid Necro can go down in seconds if caught off-guard or with cooldowns.

Sorry buddy but the only one talking about full berseker AoE Necros here is you.

I also find it extremely amusing that you seem be stuck in some kind of mentality that only people who struggle with something would post that they are too powerful. I can’t recall ever losing an even numbered fight against a group that had a Necro in it, but you seem to think that I topple over whenever they look at me funny.

Your own poor anectdotal evidence holds no water in a balance discussion. It’s kind of like prancing into a Thief thread and exclaiming “Yeah well Thieves don’t have any access to blocks ergo they are not very powerful in WvW”. I mean, you could just read your posts yourself and realise how stupid they are. According to you:

Shatter Mesmers bring no spike damage. LOL.
Support Guardians / DD eles bring no CC, and no condition removal. LOL.

Next time you are about to post something why don’t you just type a big fat ASSUMPTIONS so I can scroll past it.

EFWinters.5421:

I will admit that I don’t have much experience with large scale combat, since I tend to run in groups of 2-3 myself, but from what I have heard Necros were good before the buff and great now. In smaller scale groups they seem to be extraordinarily strong however, and particularly so against groups that don’t have a lot of spike damage.

TLDR; are condition Necros too strong in WvW, or are they in a good spot right now?

I cannot agree with you. As a whole class in all aspects on wvw necros are not op. In zergs they may be better but in small groups they are still as squish as ever. If your whole group focuses a necro they will die and will be unable to stack conditions since you will force them onto the defensive. We are vulnerable to burst and cc, if your group isn’t doing enough spike damage to a necro then perhaps you need to look at your group composition and get someone with good burst. I’d recommend a sword mesmer as I personally have the most trouble with those as a condition necro.

I will agree that condition builds are strong but that is all they have going for them. They have no block, 2 dodges, no vigor, no invuln, very limited stability, no blocks, no reflecting projectiles, and one teleport which misses a lot. This makes them prime targets for cc and focus fire. You can also dodge their condition utilities depending on what they use which will slow their stacking. If you don’t focus me or don’t dodge my skills then you will likely go down to my condition burst. This is completely backwards for an attrition class however, we should be stronger the longer the fight lasts not be forced to kill before we get burst down.

But necros have 3 health bars you say. This is incorrect. Plague form only increases your health pool. Damage you take in plague form is still reflected on your actual HP. Death shroud is now an extension of our HP too. We also have low sustain. If you burst down these extended HP pools it is very difficult to regen them, more so for a condition necro as we only have scepter 3 to regen life force which is garbage. We also cant heal in DS so if we go into DS on low health and you burst down DS we will most likely go down due the 1s delay on utilities. We also don’t regen LF out of combat so thieves for example can stealth a away and heal and then hit us again while we are vulnerable.

You also have only been looking at the “buffs” we received and have mentioned nothing of the nerfs we got.

- Corrupt boon now only removes 5 boons.
This is a bigger nerf than you think. Stability is the last boon to been removed which means if you use something like SY we have to use other boon stripping as well. Other boon stripping comes from axe/focus or well of corruption. Condition builds don’t generally use axe/focus since scepter/dagger is better at applying conditions. You can also walk out of well of corruption which means we cant remove that stability from you.

-Greater Marks moved to master trait
20 points is generally too much of an investment for most builds, this mean necro’s marks are blockable.

Have a read of the necro forums and you will see why people are so upset when people keep screaming nerf necro.

Also I’d like to pose this to you. Lets say you are right that necros are OP. How would you go about fixing them?

Drakaer.8623:

I cannot agree with you. As a whole class in all aspects on wvw necros are not op. In zergs they may be better but in small groups they are still as squish as ever. If your whole group focuses a necro they will die and will be unable to stack conditions since you will force them onto the defensive. We are vulnerable to burst and cc, if your group isn’t doing enough spike damage to a necro then perhaps you need to look at your group composition and get someone with good burst. I’d recommend a sword mesmer as I personally have the most trouble with those as a condition necro.

While it’s true that Necros may be forced on the defensive through spike damage (I mention this in the OP), due to all their ground-targeted AoE I won’t agree with you that Necros lose their ability to apply conditions while they are being focused. Wells, Marks, Spectral Wall. They can all be cast while running from someone.

Drakaer.8623:

I will agree that condition builds are strong but that is all they have going for them. They have no block, 2 dodges, no vigor, no invuln, very limited stability, no blocks, no reflecting projectiles, and one teleport which misses a lot. This makes them prime targets for cc and focus fire. You can also dodge their condition utilities depending on what they use which will slow their stacking. If you don’t focus me or don’t dodge my skills then you will likely go down to my condition burst. This is completely backwards for an attrition class however, we should be stronger the longer the fight lasts not be forced to kill before we get burst down.

I too believe that you should truly win through attrition, not burst damage. This is my main gripe with Necros as it is now. While the weaknesses you list are real, you also have to look at what they do have. Necros have such easy access to Cripple, Chill, Fear, Blind that they can keep most melee builds perpetually disabled. While ranged classes will still affect you, they seem to be far and fewer between, and also lack the spike damage of melee builds. If they do have spike damage it tends to be quite easily avoidable.

Drakaer.8623:

But necros have 3 health bars you say. This is incorrect. Plague form only increases your health pool. Damage you take in plague form is still reflected on your actual HP. Death shroud is now an extension of our HP too. We also have low sustain. If you burst down these extended HP pools it is very difficult to regen them, more so for a condition necro as we only have scepter 3 to regen life force which is garbage. We also cant heal in DS so if we go into DS on low health and you burst down DS we will most likely go down due the 1s delay on utilities. We also don’t regen LF out of combat so thieves for example can stealth a away and heal and then hit us again while we are vulnerable.

It gives you lots of health and lots of toughness. Add to this the constant cripple or blinds, and it definitely is another health bar. Ask yourself; would it take longer to take out a Necro in Plague Form than bursting through two of their health bars?

Drakaer.8623:

You also have only been looking at the “buffs” we received and have mentioned nothing of the nerfs we got.

- Corrupt boon now only removes 5 boons.
This is a bigger nerf than you think. Stability is the last boon to been removed which means if you use something like SY we have to use other boon stripping as well.

While I am reluctant to turn this into a Guardian vs. Necro discussion (which it really isn’t), I’ll just say that I don’t feel the SY / Corrupt Boon holds water in this argument at all. Any Guardian who would gladly take Stability and be affected by Bleeding, Blind, 3 Stacks of Confusion, 3 Stacks of Vulnerability, Poison and Cripple (plus all the stuff you pull from allies) is borderline stupid, to put it lightly.

As a Necro, impairing movement for long enough to keep someone in Well of Corruption is not very hard, unless they have easy access to blink spells.

Drakaer.8623:

-Greater Marks moved to master trait

While Staff has a slower autoattack, Axe and Dagger doesn’t. It’s quite easy to remove Aegis from a guardian before you place marks, and with the added size of marks through the last update, they are still easy to hit without the trait.

Drakaer.8623:

Also I’d like to pose this to you. Lets say you are right that necros are OP. How would you go about fixing them?

I would never have given their conditions more power in the first place, I would have amped up their survivability and mobility instead. Condition builds have, in my opinion, no bussiness being this spiky. They should win through attrition instead.

hmm atm i see a necro meta in my tier and it makes it pretty hard to enter any tower or keep. ther is tons of red circles and some of them hit u like a truck. i think the problem is, that necros are the new glam mesmers…but their conditions stack in mass. people woldnt complain about it though if anet wouldnt have nerfed their zergbusting builds to kitten. if i was still able to use my glam, i probably wouldnt get angry at the fact that necros got buffed that much.

so instead of an overnerf for necros, how about a buff for other classes and new ways to clean conditions?

selan.8354:

so instead of an overnerf for necros, how about a buff for other classes and new ways to clean conditions?

Condition cleansing is already a bit too strong in well-coordinated guild groups. I have often seen top guilds cleanse conditions almost every few seconds using well-coordinated area condition removal skills. Many are already using 6xMelandru runes + lemongrass poultry soup, to get -65% condition duration.

Now imagine what buffing to condition removal would do to not so condition heavy professions? A condition spec mesmer, warrior etc. would see their conditions removed instantly. Since most players zerg, who would want to run even power + condition hybrids besides necromancer or engineer. The latter is the rarest profession in WvWvW, practically missing from top guild-vs-guild.

I don’t think we need to over nerf the necromancers, but some small adjustments like they already did for tpvp (dhuumfire nerf) should be implemented for WvWvW. I don’t want to see ANY profession over nerfed.

I personally think the condition-spike, fear-chain combo that necros can pull off is way over the top at the moment, given the tankiness that are inherent to the class. This combo is WAY more powerful in wvw thanks to the +40% duration food. It’s not even an issue really with the extra bleeding/burning/torment dps duration increasing (although that is very strong), but that it increases each individual Fear/terror duration on top of it.

A group of 3 of us could not nearly train down one necro in a camp the other day (it should be a relatively even fight, with an edge as each individual can solo that camp) b/c we would get loaded up with conditions and feared-bombed to death. Even with strong access to condition mitigation/stun-breaks (ele with 2x stun break, 1x cleansing flame, ether renewal, cleanse on water-swap), we could not burst him hard enough relative to the burst he output. If it was a thief in zerker’s – he would melt. A condi-bomber – tanks quite a while (esp. with pre-charge life force vs. a PvE mob).

I am not saying this fight should have been easy for us, just that it was way to easy for him, and he never even got close to dying thanks to his DS.

I also agree that necros still have problems in wvw due to lack of mobility, which is a much more important survivability mechanism than tankiness. Guardians may be slow, but they can just stability through anything so they get away with it. Mesmers stealth to get away with it. Necro’s are not in a great place with regards to movement in wvw.

BlackBeard.2873:

I also agree that necros still have problems in wvw due to lack of mobility, which is a much more important survivability mechanism than tankiness.

At the current state, I would advice against giving necro much more mobility. They have signet of locust (+25% speed buff) and teleportation with the wurm (that is situational though).

Now imagine a full condition spec necro with high mobility. +94% condition duration (2x duration) with 30 points in Spite. +10% from 2x Lyssa, +10% from 2xMad King and +4% from 2xNightmare runes. Add in koi cakes, +40%. Very close to 2x condition duration.

He can initiate fight with signet of spite from 1200 range:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_spite
That is already 6 conditions (without any traits) in less than a second.

Combine that with e.g. Chilblains and well of corruption using focused rituals and dhuumfire to get burning trigger as well. That could mean 9 different conditions on the target, all lasting a long time and applied almost instantly from range. Without some serious condition removal that would spell death from range against most foes, who wouldn’t even be able to retreat due being both crippled and chilled. A mesmer could teleport away, but without nullfield he would also be dead from the condition. Even a full bunker guardian using contemplation of purity might be in a trouble, because well of corruption will turn all those boons back into conditions and necromancer can keep stacking more conditions faster than the guardians can cleanse them.

BlackBeard.2873:

I personally think the condition-spike, fear-chain combo that necros can pull off is way over the top at the moment, given the tankiness that are inherent to the class. This combo is WAY more powerful in wvw thanks to the +40% duration food. It’s not even an issue really with the extra bleeding/burning/torment dps duration increasing (although that is very strong), but that it increases each individual Fear/terror duration on top of it.

A group of 3 of us could not nearly train down one necro in a camp the other day (it should be a relatively even fight, with an edge as each individual can solo that camp) b/c we would get loaded up with conditions and feared-bombed to death. Even with strong access to condition mitigation/stun-breaks (ele with 2x stun break, 1x cleansing flame, ether renewal, cleanse on water-swap), we could not burst him hard enough relative to the burst he output. If it was a thief in zerker’s – he would melt. A condi-bomber – tanks quite a while (esp. with pre-charge life force vs. a PvE mob).

I am not saying this fight should have been easy for us, just that it was way to easy for him, and he never even got close to dying thanks to his DS.

I also agree that necros still have problems in wvw due to lack of mobility, which is a much more important survivability mechanism than tankiness. Guardians may be slow, but they can just stability through anything so they get away with it. Mesmers stealth to get away with it. Necro’s are not in a great place with regards to movement in wvw.

A necro can fear bomb you with 3 skills. One is on a 20 second cooldown, one is on a 40 second cooldown, and the last being a wall that you need to run in to on a 45 second cooldown. If you could not kill him in those 20 seconds long gaps with 3 people you were doing something wrong.

If that necro was bursting you extremely hard he was not building as a tank and should drop quickly. He also would not have access to tons of life force. If he was a tank he is not supposed to die quickly in a camp but he certainly isn’t bursting you.

So where did you go wrong? This isn’t a necro being OP, This is you guys failing to either CC him to death, not putting enough burst into your group, lacking condi cleanses on yourselves while only the ele has it, or something else. I understand you were in a camp so that makes this fight a bit harder, but unless it was a really upgraded camp you should not have had much trouble. I would rethink your group class comp if 1 necro gave you this much trouble.

Necros do need to be tweaked still as they can be op in small group situations, but necros are never OP when outnumbered.

Deniara Devious.3948:

BlackBeard.2873:

I also agree that necros still have problems in wvw due to lack of mobility, which is a much more important survivability mechanism than tankiness.

At the current state, I would advice against giving necro much more mobility. They have signet of locust (+25% speed buff) and teleportation with the wurm (that is situational though).

Now imagine a full condition spec necro with high mobility. +94% condition duration (2x duration) with 30 points in Spite. +10% from 2x Lyssa, +10% from 2xMad King and +4% from 2xNightmare runes. Add in koi cakes, +40%. Very close to 2x condition duration.

He can initiate fight with signet of spite from 1200 range:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_spite
That is already 6 conditions (without any traits) in less than a second.

Combine that with e.g. Chilblains and well of corruption using focused rituals and dhuumfire to get burning trigger as well. That could mean 9 different conditions on the target, all lasting a long time and applied almost instantly from range. Without some serious condition removal that would spell death from range against most foes, who wouldn’t even be able to retreat due being both crippled and chilled. A mesmer could teleport away, but without nullfield he would also be dead from the condition. Even a full bunker guardian using contemplation of purity might be in a trouble, because well of corruption will turn all those boons back into conditions and necromancer can keep stacking more conditions faster than the guardians can cleanse them.

Of course if you give the necro the perfect opening he is going to do well. You just described the most ideal situation for a necro to win in. One enemy who takes the signet of spite, gives themselves a bunch of boons, and they need to sit in a well that corrupts them. This is like giving a thief an enemy who’s back is turned and ready to eat a basilisk venom burst of doom.

That is a really awesome opening of course, but you just sacrificed your 2 skills and you are running a signet that does almost nothing in combat. That necro now has really nice damage but 0 stun breaks. Imagine how well he will fair against that silly mesmer build that stuns or the time or a CC warrior. That necro will have 0 chance of winning.

You can’t deny a class the ability to have mobility in a fight because of what might happen in ideal situations. They will tone down condition damage if they give us more mobility. You already see this happening with the dhuumfire nerf in spvp. We just need to have a little bit of faith in the devs.

Ynot.8397:

A necro can fear bomb you with 3 skills. One is on a 20 second cooldown, one is on a 40 second cooldown, and the last being a wall that you need to run in to on a 45 second cooldown. If you could not kill him in those 20 seconds long gaps with 3 people you were doing something wrong.

If that necro was bursting you extremely hard he was not building as a tank and should drop quickly. He also would not have access to tons of life force. If he was a tank he is not supposed to die quickly in a camp but he certainly isn’t bursting you.

I can agree that our approach was flawed as we weren’t chain-ccing him, but we were putting up good burst against him, and that was what I commented on. He started the fight with full-LF thanks to other mobs, and because of that, no amount of burst was enough to train him down before he started his fears.

Had we coordinated better, we would have got him down I am sure, but my main point was that he was surviving way too long given the glass-cannon damage he was doing with his condi-bombs. If the conditions are going to take out out in approximately as quickly as a BS -HS-HS thief could unmitigated, it should be tied to that kind of survivability. Essentially, one fear unmitigated is death with the +condi duration and the number of condis on you. It also can only be stopped by instant-cast skills, even if you have others that cleanse conditions. That is really what makes fear so strong here – you can’t even access some of your condition clearing skills if it is not instant.

BlackBeard.2873:

Ynot.8397:

A necro can fear bomb you with 3 skills. One is on a 20 second cooldown, one is on a 40 second cooldown, and the last being a wall that you need to run in to on a 45 second cooldown. If you could not kill him in those 20 seconds long gaps with 3 people you were doing something wrong.

If that necro was bursting you extremely hard he was not building as a tank and should drop quickly. He also would not have access to tons of life force. If he was a tank he is not supposed to die quickly in a camp but he certainly isn’t bursting you.

I can agree that our approach was flawed as we weren’t chain-ccing him, but we were putting up good burst against him, and that was what I commented on. He started the fight with full-LF thanks to other mobs, and because of that, no amount of burst was enough to train him down before he started his fears.

Had we coordinated better, we would have got him down I am sure, but my main point was that he was surviving way too long given the glass-cannon damage he was doing with his condi-bombs. If the conditions are going to take out out in approximately as quickly as a BS -HS-HS thief could unmitigated, it should be tied to that kind of survivability. Essentially, one fear unmitigated is death with the +condi duration and the number of condis on you. It also can only be stopped by instant-cast skills, even if you have others that cleanse conditions. That is really what makes fear so strong here – you can’t even access some of your condition clearing skills if it is not instant.

But unlike a thief you have NO way to escape as a necro. The only lass we can outrun is the guardian. As a necro you are stuck in a fight until the end which is why we have the natural tankiness that we have. Also, if he was running glass like you said he might have about 40k life total with the life force. 20k from his natural health and 20 from his life force bar. So what you have is a 20k bar that drops over time and the other 20k which we really only have 1 heal for as a glassy build. We can get a bit of regen but it is almost nothing.
Another thing is that he can only chain fear 1 of you at a time. The other two should be clear to go full burst on him. I hardly think that he could survive all of you if you didn’t mess up big time. That being said he might be a well above average necro who can really excel in group fights.

Not even going to join in- a guardian moaning about necros is just too funny.

Victory.2879:

Not even going to join in- a guardian moaning about necros is just too funny.

I could claim that it’s equally funny for an (obviously distraught) Necro player to jump in and vehemently defend their profession with such an informed and well thought-out response.

But I’m not, because I value everyone’s opinion. Too bad you put nothing of the sorts forward in this thread, and instead chose the path of pointless personal insults.