Guild Wars 2

Every small group these days is just made of condition mesmers, necros, and thieves. It is getting really stupid, as if the last 2 years of condition roaming meta wasn’t stupid enough.

You can win against them outnumbered with a revenant spamming aoe resist w/ demon stance

In bigger group fights condis are not an issue.

As much as I agree with OP, I very highly doubt that balancing will ever be done from a small-group or wvw roaming perspective.

In skirmish, teams can easily build for heavy condi absorption. In pickup and solo play, condi builds particularly the chrono/mesmer is very strong bordering on OP. In zerg play, condi is mostly a nuisance.

So long as condi bypasses armor and is an all or nothing effect, they will never be able to properly balance it. They have the right formula with direct damage but completely missed on the entire Damage Over Time system.

Just remove rune of perplexity and tone down mesmer condition application. Simple fixes that would improve the health of small scale combat SO much, and not affect large scale combat.

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Just remove rune of perplexity and tone down mesmer condition application. Simple fixes that would improve the health of small scale combat SO much, and not affect large scale combat.

pretty much this

mesmer right now is the greatest offender
with perplexity runes and scepter 3 with condition duration mesmers gain the ability to keep a minimum of 11 confusion stacks on a target and up to 8 stacks on several enemies thanks to shatters plus runes

as it is all condi builds require to dominate is wanderers gear with perplexity runes
perfect for warr and guardians too

I doubt they’ll balance things, like condis and how everything kills so fast or even certain high sustain builds, especially for the sake of small scale.

Things like food and oil, with condi duration extensions, the gear if you can get too, eventually people follow a meta, despite diversity in gear choice/trinkets/food etc.

They should nerf Durability runes also, they give way too much defensive stats, boon duration and passive procs.

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Just remove rune of perplexity and tone down mesmer condition application. Simple fixes that would improve the health of small scale combat SO much, and not affect large scale combat.

I agree.

FogLeg.9354:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Just remove rune of perplexity and tone down mesmer condition application. Simple fixes that would improve the health of small scale combat SO much, and not affect large scale combat.

I agree.

Same.

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Just remove rune of perplexity and tone down mesmer condition application. Simple fixes that would improve the health of small scale combat SO much, and not affect large scale combat.

I don’t recommend removing ANY rune from the game, but Superior Rune of Perplexity is brokenly overpowered. 4th effect is particularly troubling as it requires no active role from its user:
“(4): 25% chance when struck to inflict 3 stacks of confusion for 5 seconds. (Cooldown: 25 Seconds)”
And #6 effect has way too powerful effect for such a low cooldown. Interrupting a foe is easy, because if any CC like daze counts and if you stop doing anything, you will not do any damage:
“+20% confusion duration; when you interrupt a foe, cause 5 stacks of confusion for 8 seconds. (Cooldown: 15s)”

Both of these effects need serious rework or toning down for WvWvW. It is not fun to fight these as activating just few skills leads to suicide and if you don’t use any skills, you are not doing any damage. Condition should be so strong shut down and not all professions have good access to condition cleanse. There is a good reason why this rune set doesn’t exist in spvp. Condition duration food + toxic stone will increase condition duration by 30 %, which also doesn’t exist in spvp.

I would hope any developer feedback on this topic as this needs to be fixed. In my experience this is not a rare problem. Most enemy roamers seem to run some of condition build and perplexity runes are a common place.

I agree. Condi wars gets tiring quickly especially when they top it with rune of perplexity.
I run every condi cleanse available on ranger yet i keep on melting cause of spamspamspamspamspam.

Don’t forget to add some physical damage to Thief traps so it actually pops them out of stealth when running Trapper runes… That perma-invis condispam build is why we can’t have nice things.

I agree, nerf conditions because 3 power burst specs won’t instagib you if they focus right?

Sure condition Mesmer is annoying but decent condition cleansing, line of sighting to prevent sceptre 3 goes a long way. However generally I wouldn’t pick the fight unless I was at a camp or something that needed defending, just a waste of time fighting it as you can be there for 10 mins without anyone really winning.

Btw are you still running base ranger Babou? Saw you the other night and thought you weren’t using Druid but might have been mistaken.

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Just remove rune of perplexity and tone down mesmer condition application. Simple fixes that would improve the health of small scale combat SO much, and not affect large scale combat.

+1

Dire mesmers have to go. No build should be able to insta-stack 15 confusions + torment while being so survivable.

apharma.3741:

I agree, nerf conditions because 3 power burst specs won’t instagib you if they focus right?

Sure condition Mesmer is annoying but decent condition cleansing, line of sighting to prevent sceptre 3 goes a long way. However generally I wouldn’t pick the fight unless I was at a camp or something that needed defending, just a waste of time fighting it as you can be there for 10 mins without anyone really winning.

Btw are you still running base ranger Babou? Saw you the other night and thought you weren’t using Druid but might have been mistaken.

Running druid. Can’t let that condi cleanse on F5 go to waste in times of need.

apharma.3741:

I agree, nerf conditions because 3 power burst specs won’t instagib you if they focus right?

Sure condition Mesmer is annoying but decent condition cleansing, line of sighting to prevent sceptre 3 goes a long way. However generally I wouldn’t pick the fight unless I was at a camp or something that needed defending, just a waste of time fighting it as you can be there for 10 mins without anyone really winning.

Btw are you still running base ranger Babou? Saw you the other night and thought you weren’t using Druid but might have been mistaken.

If you mean 3 burst players focusing you, you deserve to die no matter what build you are using when focused by 3 players lol. Although these days that doesn’t seem to be true for condi mesmers and mindless AoE shatter spamming.

If you meant there are 3 burst builds capable of instagibbing a full dire max toughness max vitality any class, please state which ones you THINK they are. The only one I can think of is full signet zerker d/d thief, which is a one trick pony and will probably die to the passive 3 confusion stacks from perplexity.

Honestly, it was a huge mistake making confusion tick for damage regardless. I can see the original confusion as a mechanic to tone down mindless skill spam but what’s the point when it’s getting heaped onto you relentlessly and you’re taking damage anyway? This seems purely like more PvE changes draining into WvWvW. And I’ve said it a million times, torment has no place in such a fluid, action oriented combat system. In a game with cripple, chill, immobilize and weakness, the addition of torment leaves me scratching my head.

They should make confusion like a reverse Retaliation, the way Blind is like a reverse Aegis. It will add more skill play to both giver and receiver.

Condition damage has been nerfed in quite a few notable ways since the game was released (700 boundary thing, halved +condi duration food). I don’t think it’s a problem at all really given how most condi builds are probably a mixture of dire and rabid, and it’s so easy to burst through someone’s armour stat now given how much direct damage we can pump out. You can do some massive stacks of confusion on people with Chrono/Mes (my record is 36 stacks on one person with perplex runes/mistrust and the stars aligning for maximum group interrupts) but if someone face tanks one of my condi shatters, they would probably face tank a power shatter and be dead sooner.

Simonoly.4352:

Condition damage has been nerfed in quite a few notable ways since the game was released (700 boundary thing, halved +condi duration food). I don’t think it’s a problem at all really given how most condi builds are probably a mixture of dire and rabid, and it’s so easy to burst through someone’s armour stat now given how much direct damage we can pump out. You can do some massive stacks of confusion on people with Chrono/Mes (my record is 36 stacks on one person with perplex runes/mistrust and the stars aligning for maximum group interrupts) but if someone face tanks one of my condi shatters, they would probably face tank a power shatter and be dead sooner.

700 boundary thing nerfs hybrid players, not condition players. Condi duration food was also nerfed for -condi duration. Are you kidding me, “Condition damage has been nerfed” yea ok nerfed so hard that poison and burning were allowed to stack and confusion was allowed to tick passively. Not to mention that vulnerability affects condition damage now, but protection, -damage aspects such as Bulwark Gyro, and weakness don’t.

Easy to burst through Dire? One of the tankiest stat mixes in the game? What are you on??? I would love to see you play Marauder builds if you think Dire is easy to burst through. To see how skewed conditions are vs power, go fight a Dire build as a Soldier build.

Damage done through condition partial shatters FAR outshines damage done through power partial shatters.

BeepBoopBop.5403:

apharma.3741:

I agree, nerf conditions because 3 power burst specs won’t instagib you if they focus right?

Sure condition Mesmer is annoying but decent condition cleansing, line of sighting to prevent sceptre 3 goes a long way. However generally I wouldn’t pick the fight unless I was at a camp or something that needed defending, just a waste of time fighting it as you can be there for 10 mins without anyone really winning.

Btw are you still running base ranger Babou? Saw you the other night and thought you weren’t using Druid but might have been mistaken.

If you mean 3 burst players focusing you, you deserve to die no matter what build you are using when focused by 3 players lol. Although these days that doesn’t seem to be true for condi mesmers and mindless AoE shatter spamming.

If you meant there are 3 burst builds capable of instagibbing a full dire max toughness max vitality any class, please state which ones you THINK they are. The only one I can think of is full signet zerker d/d thief, which is a one trick pony and will probably die to the passive 3 confusion stacks from perplexity.

Well people were complaining about meeting small groups of condi mesmers, thieves and necros, that’s multiple people. Show me any dire build that can take the burst from 2-3 burst builds especially from stealth? I mean I’ve been hit for a good 8k from back stabs with over 3k armour, mesmers hit even harder at the cost of longer cool down.

I know there is no build that can burst anything that has toughness and vitality as minor stats but I didn’t say that so stop ranting about something I didn’t say.

Like it or not a small group of power builds co-ordinating burst will be able to down and keep pressure on the downed far more effectively than condition builds. Add in stealth and you can shut down a lot of condition builds as they need targets to hit so you will be relatively safe with scrapers, thieves and mesmers in your burst team.

apharma.3741:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

apharma.3741:

I agree, nerf conditions because 3 power burst specs won’t instagib you if they focus right?

Sure condition Mesmer is annoying but decent condition cleansing, line of sighting to prevent sceptre 3 goes a long way. However generally I wouldn’t pick the fight unless I was at a camp or something that needed defending, just a waste of time fighting it as you can be there for 10 mins without anyone really winning.

Btw are you still running base ranger Babou? Saw you the other night and thought you weren’t using Druid but might have been mistaken.

If you mean 3 burst players focusing you, you deserve to die no matter what build you are using when focused by 3 players lol. Although these days that doesn’t seem to be true for condi mesmers and mindless AoE shatter spamming.

If you meant there are 3 burst builds capable of instagibbing a full dire max toughness max vitality any class, please state which ones you THINK they are. The only one I can think of is full signet zerker d/d thief, which is a one trick pony and will probably die to the passive 3 confusion stacks from perplexity.

Well people were complaining about meeting small groups of condi mesmers, thieves and necros, that’s multiple people. Show me any dire build that can take the burst from 2-3 burst builds especially from stealth? I mean I’ve been hit for a good 8k from back stabs with over 3k armour, mesmers hit even harder at the cost of longer cool down.

I know there is no build that can burst anything that has toughness and vitality as minor stats but I didn’t say that so stop ranting about something I didn’t say.

Like it or not a small group of power builds co-ordinating burst will be able to down and keep pressure on the downed far more effectively than condition builds. Add in stealth and you can shut down a lot of condition builds as they need targets to hit so you will be relatively safe with scrapers, thieves and mesmers in your burst team.

I complained about groups because a group of condi users will win over a group of power users more often than 50% of the time due to stat advantage (more vit and toughness stacking) and mechanic advantage (covering conditions is SO easy, confusion straight up broken).

“So stop ranting about something I didn’t say” did you not see the “if” at the beginning of my sentence? It’s not my fault you were unclear as kitten, do you speak English as your first language?

Condition users can also stealth. Condition users can coordinate burst. Have you never met a coordinated group running epidemic necro?

All of your counterarguments apply to condition builds as well.

BeepBoopBop.5403:

apharma.3741:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

apharma.3741:

I agree, nerf conditions because 3 power burst specs won’t instagib you if they focus right?

Sure condition Mesmer is annoying but decent condition cleansing, line of sighting to prevent sceptre 3 goes a long way. However generally I wouldn’t pick the fight unless I was at a camp or something that needed defending, just a waste of time fighting it as you can be there for 10 mins without anyone really winning.

Btw are you still running base ranger Babou? Saw you the other night and thought you weren’t using Druid but might have been mistaken.

If you mean 3 burst players focusing you, you deserve to die no matter what build you are using when focused by 3 players lol. Although these days that doesn’t seem to be true for condi mesmers and mindless AoE shatter spamming.

If you meant there are 3 burst builds capable of instagibbing a full dire max toughness max vitality any class, please state which ones you THINK they are. The only one I can think of is full signet zerker d/d thief, which is a one trick pony and will probably die to the passive 3 confusion stacks from perplexity.

Well people were complaining about meeting small groups of condi mesmers, thieves and necros, that’s multiple people. Show me any dire build that can take the burst from 2-3 burst builds especially from stealth? I mean I’ve been hit for a good 8k from back stabs with over 3k armour, mesmers hit even harder at the cost of longer cool down.

I know there is no build that can burst anything that has toughness and vitality as minor stats but I didn’t say that so stop ranting about something I didn’t say.

Like it or not a small group of power builds co-ordinating burst will be able to down and keep pressure on the downed far more effectively than condition builds. Add in stealth and you can shut down a lot of condition builds as they need targets to hit so you will be relatively safe with scrapers, thieves and mesmers in your burst team.

I complained about groups because a group of condi users will win over a group of power users more often than 50% of the time due to stat advantage (more vit and toughness stacking) and mechanic advantage (covering conditions is SO easy, confusion straight up broken).

“So stop ranting about something I didn’t say” did you not see the “if” at the beginning of my sentence? It’s not my fault you were unclear as kitten, do you speak English as your first language?

Condition users can also stealth. Condition users can coordinate burst. Have you never met a coordinated group running epidemic necro?

All of your counterarguments apply to condition builds as well.

It’s funny you mention poor English skills, I wasn’t being unclear when I said “because 3 power burst specs won’t instagib you if they focus right?” especially when we put it in the context of us talking about groups roaming.

You decided to have a what if scenario and run away with that so don’t place your poor debating technique on me.

Additionally if you (and by you I mean you/your group of similar number) get condition bombed it is 100% your fault if you die. Condition bombs outside of burning are easily recovered from by virtue of being able to cleanse them, usually accompanied with heals. If you’re dying to epidemic necros then there’s really not much to say, it strikes me you’re being beaten by people running their PvE builds.

apharma.3741:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

apharma.3741:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

apharma.3741:

I agree, nerf conditions because 3 power burst specs won’t instagib you if they focus right?

Sure condition Mesmer is annoying but decent condition cleansing, line of sighting to prevent sceptre 3 goes a long way. However generally I wouldn’t pick the fight unless I was at a camp or something that needed defending, just a waste of time fighting it as you can be there for 10 mins without anyone really winning.

Btw are you still running base ranger Babou? Saw you the other night and thought you weren’t using Druid but might have been mistaken.

If you mean 3 burst players focusing you, you deserve to die no matter what build you are using when focused by 3 players lol. Although these days that doesn’t seem to be true for condi mesmers and mindless AoE shatter spamming.

If you meant there are 3 burst builds capable of instagibbing a full dire max toughness max vitality any class, please state which ones you THINK they are. The only one I can think of is full signet zerker d/d thief, which is a one trick pony and will probably die to the passive 3 confusion stacks from perplexity.

Well people were complaining about meeting small groups of condi mesmers, thieves and necros, that’s multiple people. Show me any dire build that can take the burst from 2-3 burst builds especially from stealth? I mean I’ve been hit for a good 8k from back stabs with over 3k armour, mesmers hit even harder at the cost of longer cool down.

I know there is no build that can burst anything that has toughness and vitality as minor stats but I didn’t say that so stop ranting about something I didn’t say.

Like it or not a small group of power builds co-ordinating burst will be able to down and keep pressure on the downed far more effectively than condition builds. Add in stealth and you can shut down a lot of condition builds as they need targets to hit so you will be relatively safe with scrapers, thieves and mesmers in your burst team.

I complained about groups because a group of condi users will win over a group of power users more often than 50% of the time due to stat advantage (more vit and toughness stacking) and mechanic advantage (covering conditions is SO easy, confusion straight up broken).

“So stop ranting about something I didn’t say” did you not see the “if” at the beginning of my sentence? It’s not my fault you were unclear as kitten, do you speak English as your first language?

Condition users can also stealth. Condition users can coordinate burst. Have you never met a coordinated group running epidemic necro?

All of your counterarguments apply to condition builds as well.

It’s funny you mention poor English skills, I wasn’t being unclear when I said “because 3 power burst specs won’t instagib you if they focus right?” especially when we put it in the context of us talking about groups roaming.

You decided to have a what if scenario and run away with that so don’t place your poor debating technique on me.

Additionally if you (and by you I mean you/your group of similar number) get condition bombed it is 100% your fault if you die. Condition bombs outside of burning are easily recovered from by virtue of being able to cleanse them, usually accompanied with heals. If you’re dying to epidemic necros then there’s really not much to say, it strikes me you’re being beaten by people running their PvE builds.

“because 3 power burst specs won’t instagib you if they focus right?” can mean 3 builds, or 3 players.

“get condition bombed it is 100% your fault if you die” because covering conditions is hard? Geomancy + doom alone can eat up 2 cleanses. Cleanses are on far larger cooldowns than the abilities used to apply conditions. It makes 0 sense that covering conditions is as easy as swapping weapons, then oh theres goes your cleanses that cleanses vulnerability and weakness instead of 10 stacks of confusion.

I mentioned epidemic necro merely to reply to your weird assumption that only power burst groups can coordinate. Ever heard of venomshare either?

Why don’t you meet me in game, I’ll play condi chrono you play marauder anything lol.

Condis are way op in small group scenarios, i know this being in a small havoc group running condi necros. You just dont have the sustain from power as there is far too much negation in the game for power damage compared to condi.

Warriors with berserker stance and high uptimes on resistance and Malyx Revs have access to some decent anti condi, apart from that tho theres not a lot of resistance floating around. Having said that it usually just gets corrupted by condi necros.

Condi clears are not intuitive in that they clear 2 stacks of vuln and your 1 stack of poison rather than those 8 stacks of torment and those 12 stacks of confusion. On top of this application happens far more often than you have clears.

The negation of power damage in the game atm is what mainly generates the problem, protection straight up is a 33% dmg reduction. Most small groups will have 100% uptime for this unless it gets corrupted(lol condi necros). On top of this you have things like rite of the great dwarf 50% negation, Bulwark Gyro 50% negation and all the invulns floating around out there. Invulns are useless vs condis, self regulating defence is sometimes a death sentence when dealing with them, u just tick out to death with no access to ur skills.

I dont understand this talk about bursting being only a power thing, you can condi burst just fine.

My post is from a WvW perspective i should add.

gennyt.3428:

Honestly, it was a huge mistake making confusion tick for damage regardless. I can see the original confusion as a mechanic to tone down mindless skill spam but what’s the point when it’s getting heaped onto you relentlessly and you’re taking damage anyway? This seems purely like more PvE changes draining into WvWvW.

Yes, tick damage was added to confusion PURELY because PvE players complained how useless it was. If I remember correctly the complains were mostly about world boss trains and how you can not get enough xp and no chests because your confusion never kicks in.

Complete rubbish ofc but we still have to suffer because of that.

BeepBoopBop.5403:

apharma.3741:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

apharma.3741:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

apharma.3741:

I agree, nerf conditions because 3 power burst specs won’t instagib you if they focus right?

Sure condition Mesmer is annoying but decent condition cleansing, line of sighting to prevent sceptre 3 goes a long way. However generally I wouldn’t pick the fight unless I was at a camp or something that needed defending, just a waste of time fighting it as you can be there for 10 mins without anyone really winning.

Btw are you still running base ranger Babou? Saw you the other night and thought you weren’t using Druid but might have been mistaken.

If you mean 3 burst players focusing you, you deserve to die no matter what build you are using when focused by 3 players lol. Although these days that doesn’t seem to be true for condi mesmers and mindless AoE shatter spamming.

If you meant there are 3 burst builds capable of instagibbing a full dire max toughness max vitality any class, please state which ones you THINK they are. The only one I can think of is full signet zerker d/d thief, which is a one trick pony and will probably die to the passive 3 confusion stacks from perplexity.

Well people were complaining about meeting small groups of condi mesmers, thieves and necros, that’s multiple people. Show me any dire build that can take the burst from 2-3 burst builds especially from stealth? I mean I’ve been hit for a good 8k from back stabs with over 3k armour, mesmers hit even harder at the cost of longer cool down.

I know there is no build that can burst anything that has toughness and vitality as minor stats but I didn’t say that so stop ranting about something I didn’t say.

Like it or not a small group of power builds co-ordinating burst will be able to down and keep pressure on the downed far more effectively than condition builds. Add in stealth and you can shut down a lot of condition builds as they need targets to hit so you will be relatively safe with scrapers, thieves and mesmers in your burst team.

I complained about groups because a group of condi users will win over a group of power users more often than 50% of the time due to stat advantage (more vit and toughness stacking) and mechanic advantage (covering conditions is SO easy, confusion straight up broken).

“So stop ranting about something I didn’t say” did you not see the “if” at the beginning of my sentence? It’s not my fault you were unclear as kitten, do you speak English as your first language?

Condition users can also stealth. Condition users can coordinate burst. Have you never met a coordinated group running epidemic necro?

All of your counterarguments apply to condition builds as well.

It’s funny you mention poor English skills, I wasn’t being unclear when I said “because 3 power burst specs won’t instagib you if they focus right?” especially when we put it in the context of us talking about groups roaming.

You decided to have a what if scenario and run away with that so don’t place your poor debating technique on me.

Additionally if you (and by you I mean you/your group of similar number) get condition bombed it is 100% your fault if you die. Condition bombs outside of burning are easily recovered from by virtue of being able to cleanse them, usually accompanied with heals. If you’re dying to epidemic necros then there’s really not much to say, it strikes me you’re being beaten by people running their PvE builds.

“because 3 power burst specs won’t instagib you if they focus right?” can mean 3 builds, or 3 players.

“get condition bombed it is 100% your fault if you die” because covering conditions is hard? Geomancy + doom alone can eat up 2 cleanses. Cleanses are on far larger cooldowns than the abilities used to apply conditions. It makes 0 sense that covering conditions is as easy as swapping weapons, then oh theres goes your cleanses that cleanses vulnerability and weakness instead of 10 stacks of confusion.

I mentioned epidemic necro merely to reply to your weird assumption that only power burst groups can coordinate. Ever heard of venomshare either?

Why don’t you meet me in game, I’ll play condi chrono you play marauder anything lol.

I am talking small group vs small group, if between 2-5 of you, you cannot handle a condition bomb between the group in a mostly equal fight then it is your fault. If you let the necro epidemic, it is your fault, why didn’t you as a power group explode the necro? If you’re burning a cleanse on doom and geomancy it’s a bit silly, you know cleansing is first on last out right?

You can dodge, block, blind condition attacks too? I know epidemic is unblockable but you can dodge or blind the necro. I don’t worry about conditions on auto attacks because they take a while to build up and can be cleansed when needed. Mind you we usually run with a tempest, guard or Druid healing and cleansing the group. I also run inspiration trait line as a Mesmer and dodge the heavy hitting condition attacks.

We also focus people down, usually the most lethal or most vulnerable and opponents can go from 100% to dead in a few seconds, very few condition builds can do that and we can do it in an AoE too.

Ah the good old fight me brah response, go read my response on condi mesmer in the first thing I wrote, I wouldn’t take the fight if I didn’t have to because of 2 reasons.
1) Condition Mesmer excels in a 1v1 and I play core power shatter.
2) I am talking about small groups not 1v1

For someone bringing up my English skills you seem to be lacking in memory.

Chorazin.4107:

Condi clears are not intuitive in that they clear 2 stacks of vuln and your 1 stack of poison rather than those 8 stacks of torment and those 12 stacks of confusion. On top of this application happens far more often than you have clears.

Conditions are cleared in specific order: the last applied condition gets cleared first.

Condi players take advantage of this and try to apply cover conditions on top of the more important ones.

The best defense against condi players is the same as against the power players: don’t eat their bomb. Cleanses or healing are not supposed to negate all those attacks you failed to avoid.

this lord am forced to play condi myself its kitteng lame

vitality should -% condi like armor does to direct damage, some will pipe up saying it does but no it doesnt, not if healing doesnt scale with vitality.

Trepidation Lost.3469:

vitality should -% condi like armor does to direct damage, some will pipe up saying it does but no it doesnt, not if healing doesnt scale with vitality.

Or a new stat called defiance that can reduce condi damage on the same scale toughness and a new boon called detention that works like protection…almost all power builds are direect damage dealers and must have power precision and ferocity where most condi classes dont even take condi duration and instead just take condi damage

Chase.2798:

Trepidation Lost.3469:

vitality should -% condi like armor does to direct damage, some will pipe up saying it does but no it doesnt, not if healing doesnt scale with vitality.

Or a new stat called defiance that can reduce condi damage on the same scale toughness and a new boon called detention that works like protection…almost all power builds are direect damage dealers and must have power precision and ferocity where most condi classes dont even take condi duration and instead just take condi damage

too much work tbh, vitality acting like armor does to power but to condi would fix it. making protection do -33% coindi dmg too, plz anet do it

nerf orrrrr….. learn to play lol
counter condi dmg with…. condi dmg. Nothing more fun to see a condi player melt by condi dmg hehe, especially condi mesmers :-)
every class has enough counter play against condies, try to find it in stead of online kittening
+ avoid the condi bomb like u normally do against the power bomb… same principle

apharma.3741:

I am talking small group vs small group

And your experience in small group play is?

apharma.3741:

if between 2-5 of you, you cannot handle a condition bomb between the group in a mostly equal fight then it is your fault. If you let the necro epidemic, it is your fault, why didn’t you as a power group explode the necro? If you’re burning a cleanse on doom and geomancy it’s a bit silly, you know cleansing is first on last out right?

You have to have classes dedicated to cleansing condis, i admit it can kind of be done if you run some dedicated condi cleaners. But looking over our 5’s vs tM it is still a very tough proposition keeping your group condi free vs just 1 condi necro.

apharma.3741:

We also focus people down, usually the most lethal or most vulnerable and opponents can go from 100% to dead in a few seconds, very few condition builds can do that and we can do it in an AoE too.

Not easy to do when you have a support guard and Ele looking after the group. That is a lot of healing, the thing with power burst generally is you are squishy. I think to a degree vault thieves can get away with it and maybe Rev. But for condi application that necro can be tanky as kitten. You are better off going after the healbot Ele in the group because you will down it quicker than a Full Dire Necro backed up by heals.

Just nerf AoE skills – make sure one cannot overlap AoE rings and all will be fine.

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Every small group these days is just made of condition mesmers, necros, and thieves. It is getting really stupid, as if the last 2 years of condition roaming meta wasn’t stupid enough.

Seems like a player comp problem to me. Condition has been tweeked since then beginning of the game. There was a point when condi was worse to play than power. Now there’s a couple of meta builds again, the condi staff/ s/t mesmer is not new to the game neither is trapper thief nor is the terror-mancer. The condition changes from (last year(s) april 19th or 9th i think?) made condi viable again. Nerfing condi won’t balance anything. I doubt perplex runes will ever go away, but maybe nerfed (didn’t they nerf it once already?).

Perplexity runes have been around forever. Perplexity can be dumb runes, but I typically don’t have problems in the group(s) I run with. PvP seems pretty kitten ok with the condi changes. If anything I’d say prepare with better comp geared towards whatever meta people are playing in a wvw map and don’t be surprised if you get killed by some other meta. I.E I go condi cleanse and I get steamrolled by a power thief.

I have no problem with conditions dealing damage.
Warrior, revenant, thief, guard, rangerm and engie are all fine condi.

I do have an issue with the meta mesmer and that invulnerability while they pump out the conditions. Then we have perplex runes. Which need to go. Nothing says interesting game play like runes that punish you for even attempting to kill them. I don’t even bother with mesmers anymore in wvw just because 9/10 of them are running this crap.

Oh and make resistance a little more accessible.

They need to buff condi, it gets cleansed so fast and easy in wvw. Also condis get less loot beaquse game dont register it.

Chorazin.4107:

And your experience in small group play is?

Generally small group roaming on core mesmer or ele. Looking at between 3-8 usually 4/5 of us tbh. Mostly run into power builds but do see the occasional condi mesmer, necro and engineer. Very rarely see condi thief and rev tbh.

You have to have classes dedicated to cleansing condis, i admit it can kind of be done if you run some dedicated condi cleaners. But looking over our 5’s vs tM it is still a very tough proposition keeping your group condi free vs just 1 condi necro.

To be honest it depends on what classes people are running. Example, warriors running CI are generally alright dealing with condi outside of corruptions or blind spam. Druids generally run with an all cleanse on CA + trooper runes, as a mesmer I run inspiration and if it’s a condition heavy group I use null field for resistance and cleanses, engy can bring elixir C again if it’s a condition heavy group. Generally we have enough personal cleanses and group heals to deal with anything but a full condition damage group without switching out utilities but we do when needed.

We also call out our water fields a lot which we try to blast it we can as it helps to sustain against background condi ticks. If we have an ele with us then we’re alright for cleanses and heals most of the time.

Chorazin.4107:

Not easy to do when you have a support guard and Ele looking after the group. That is a lot of healing, the thing with power burst generally is you are squishy. I think to a degree vault thieves can get away with it and maybe Rev. But for condi application that necro can be tanky as kitten. You are better off going after the healbot Ele in the group because you will down it quicker than a Full Dire Necro backed up by heals.

I agree sometimes it is better to focus the support other than the dire necro but we generally try to keep them CC’d to prevent them free casting. We’re fortunate to play with a guy who is good at both power berserker and druid and can go very deep into a group and survive well. While they focus him we are free to pick them off a lot of the time and certainly with warriors they can put out a lot of AoE damage pressure while being immune to damage.

Conditions don’t need nerfing.

Ability to apply daze so frequently and stealth are what needs to be changed.

TheHeretic.3529:

Conditions don’t need nerfing.

Ability to apply daze so frequently and stealth are what needs to be changed.

You mean Confusion? THAT IS A CONDITION……..

Perplexity runes op. Confusion in particular is a bit op. Other than that, condis are just delayed dmg. If you take a full condi bomb from most classes you’re probably near dead to power anyway.

Condis don’t get the huge, front loaded dmg that power builds get. They can also be largely negated with dodge/evade/block/heal/cleanse. Just avoiding certain skills and having a decent support build mixed into the group negates a lot of condi dmg.

Also noticed that condis tend the screw with players timing on defensive skills/evade/heal. You can tell when a player is used to dealing with condis.

Bruh, you’re in QQ how can you be crying about condi

Dusty Moon.4382:

TheHeretic.3529:

Conditions don’t need nerfing.

Ability to apply daze so frequently and stealth are what needs to be changed.

You mean Confusion? THAT IS A CONDITION……..

You do know what daze is right?

Zetsumei.4975:

Dusty Moon.4382:

TheHeretic.3529:

Conditions don’t need nerfing.

Ability to apply daze so frequently and stealth are what needs to be changed.

You mean Confusion? THAT IS A CONDITION……..

You do know what daze is right?

Yes but it usually comes with other condi’s like confusion and or torment and those DO more damage than daze.

Chorazin.4107:

Condis are way op in small group scenarios, i know this being in a small havoc group running condi necros. You just dont have the sustain from power as there is far too much negation in the game for power damage compared to condi.

Warriors with berserker stance and high uptimes on resistance and Malyx Revs have access to some decent anti condi, apart from that tho theres not a lot of resistance floating around. Having said that it usually just gets corrupted by condi necros.

Condi clears are not intuitive in that they clear 2 stacks of vuln and your 1 stack of poison rather than those 8 stacks of torment and those 12 stacks of confusion. On top of this application happens far more often than you have clears.

The negation of power damage in the game atm is what mainly generates the problem, protection straight up is a 33% dmg reduction. Most small groups will have 100% uptime for this unless it gets corrupted(lol condi necros). On top of this you have things like rite of the great dwarf 50% negation, Bulwark Gyro 50% negation and all the invulns floating around out there. Invulns are useless vs condis, self regulating defence is sometimes a death sentence when dealing with them, u just tick out to death with no access to ur skills.

I dont understand this talk about bursting being only a power thing, you can condi burst just fine.

This. READ THIS.

This man makes sense.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Zetsumei.4975:

Dusty Moon.4382:

TheHeretic.3529:

Conditions don’t need nerfing.

Ability to apply daze so frequently and stealth are what needs to be changed.

You mean Confusion? THAT IS A CONDITION……..

You do know what daze is right?

Yes but it usually comes with other condi’s like confusion and or torment and those DO more damage than daze.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Power_Block

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Impacting_Disruption

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Moment_of_Clarity

The reality is that most of the points people who refuse to equip condi clears and intelligently use them make are really just two sides of the same coin. People often try to make comparisons between power and condi but because they dont have nearly enough experience theorycrafting condi builds they dont see that the supposed differences are mirrored in both playstyles.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Zetsumei.4975:

Dusty Moon.4382:

TheHeretic.3529:

Conditions don’t need nerfing.

Ability to apply daze so frequently and stealth are what needs to be changed.

You mean Confusion? THAT IS A CONDITION……..

You do know what daze is right?

Yes but it usually comes with other condi’s like confusion and or torment and those DO more damage than daze.

Daze doesn’t do damage. It’s an interupt, and mesmers get access to WAY too many Dazes.