Nerf or remove the condi

Nerf or remove the condi

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Posted by: Ghost.7032

Ghost.7032

I will keep this short.
Anet remove or nerf the condi cause in wvw there is no piont to roam or to have fun fights anymore. This is what wvw is now 1 enemy spam a stupid skill. You, remove condi, resistance, heal. Your boons got removed. Heals, restistance, remove condi. CD. Game over. Your scwered.

Either give resistance a longer stack and cannot be removed. Or give more condi removal to other classes and not only DRUID!! Or bring back the good old days where small group was be possible to wipe blobs (with no high condi damage!!). Because now there is 0% chance to wipe blobs

Fix the game… thank god..

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Posted by: anduriell.6280

anduriell.6280

I will keep this short.
Anet remove or nerf the condi cause in wvw there is no piont to roam or to have fun fights anymore. This is what wvw is now 1 enemy spam a stupid skill. You, remove condi, resistance, heal. Your boons got removed. Heals, restistance, remove condi. CD. Game over. Your scwered.

Either give resistance a longer stack and cannot be removed. Or give more condi removal to other classes and not only DRUID!! Or bring back the good old days where small group was be possible to wipe blobs (with no high condi damage!!). Because now there is 0% chance to wipe blobs

Fix the game… thank god..

it is not only the condi, it’s the one shot philosophy anet has taken the last year. Spamming 15k damage every 2 seconds for 16k life pool is not fun to anybody.
Now this game feels like playing an fps.

I TOLD YOU SO
Inverse to Apple: SBeast is the worst yet.. jurl jurl
I’m all in for Team Irenio!

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Posted by: Straegen.2938

Straegen.2938

Unfortunately they painted small scale into a corner with the heavy defensive rotations on Tempest, Scrapper, Warrior and Guardian. The only way for most other classes to compete is to run ever-vasion, heavy stealth or go bunker/condi.

A player cannot get near a DH any more without having 20k health and 3k armor to eat the burst and survive the burn afterwards.

Sarcasm For Hire [SFH]
“Youre lips are movin and youre complaining about something thats wingeing.”

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Posted by: Kekkei Genkai Kage.5930

Kekkei Genkai Kage.5930

Birdy told me that the Balance Team is pushing for condi to get stronger so there isn’t going to be a nerf to condi, soo therefor WvW is going to be screwed

[Rekz] Another Dead WvW Guild

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Posted by: SpellOfIniquity.1780

SpellOfIniquity.1780

Some classes have strong condition builds. Said classes should have specific skills/traits adjusted. A nerf across the board isn’t what’s necessary.

Strong power builds are far more plentiful and effective than most condition builds. Just because condition Chrono and ghost Thief are meta in roaming and condition Reaper in zerging doesn’t mean conditions need to be nerfed for everything.

This is about the equivalent of saying “I got hit for a 20k Gunflame, Ferocity needs to be nerfed and we need more blocks.”

While it is true that in some situations, conditions will come more quickly than you can cleanse, it’s not like this situation doesn’t exist when against power builds. There are times when you don’t have enough dodges or blocks to get away from how much damage is coming at you yet this isn’t a complaint anyone ever seems to make.

This is just the same old, people have time to think about their mistakes before their mistakes kill them, that has been going on forever and why so many people hate conditions. You don’t die instantly, you get to hate yourself and the world before your health fully evaporates.

Necromancer, Ranger, Warrior, Engineer
Champion: Phantom, Hunter, Legionnaire, Genius
WvW rank: Diamond Colonel | Maguuma

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Posted by: kiwituatara.6053

kiwituatara.6053

Too much power creep since HoT.

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Posted by: ThomasC.1056

ThomasC.1056

I will keep this short.
Anet remove or nerf the condi cause in wvw there is no piont to roam or to have fun fights anymore. This is what wvw is now 1 enemy spam a stupid skill. You, remove condi, resistance, heal. Your boons got removed. Heals, restistance, remove condi. CD. Game over. Your scwered.

Either give resistance a longer stack and cannot be removed. Or give more condi removal to other classes and not only DRUID!! Or bring back the good old days where small group was be possible to wipe blobs (with no high condi damage!!). Because now there is 0% chance to wipe blobs

Fix the game… thank god..

I will keep this short.
Anet remove or nerf the stunlock cause in wvw there is no piont to roam or to have fun fights anymore. This is what wvw is now 1 enemy spam a stupid skill. You, breakstun, stability, heal, dodge. Your boons got removed. Heals, stability, stunbreakers. CD. Game over. [You’re screwed] (fixed typos).

Either give stability a longer stack and cannot be removed. Or give more stunbreakers to other classes and not only GUARDIAN!! Or bring back the good old days where small group was be possible to wipe blobs (with no high CC!!). Because now there is 0% chance to wipe blobs

Fix the game… thank god..


Disclaimer :

  • I said “Guardian” because it’s the first profession with stunbreakers that went through my head. There may be better solutions.
  • Works also with power builds. Actually, I roam a lot, and roughly only see power builds.

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Posted by: Junkpile.7439

Junkpile.7439

I play counter strike and enemy have some pro player and i can’t hit barn wall. So when he kill me by using ak47 i whine that devs should remove ak. After that he use shotgun and i whine that devs should remove shotgun.

Low quality trolling since launch
Seafarer’s Rest EotM grinch

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Posted by: Dawdler.8521

Dawdler.8521

I play counter strike and enemy have some pro player and i can’t hit barn wall. So when he kill me by using ak47 i whine that devs should remove ak. After that he use shotgun and i whine that devs should remove shotgun.

This would only be a valid comparison to GW2 if his AK47 did 20% of your HP in damage every second for 20 seconds and he have twice your hitpoints while your AK47 only hit him for 1% damage every shot.

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Posted by: zinkz.7045

zinkz.7045

Outside of beta and maybe the first few months roaming in this game has always been trash.

Firstly because WvW is too structured (in comparison to real open world PvP) so 95% of the players on the map have no interest in roaming/smallscale because they are in a blob, guild raid, sat in a objective, etc.

Secondly because there is zero balance consideration given to small scale/roaming in WvW so balance has always been completely broken, which is why for the entire game you have certain classes that you always see roaming and others rarely.

Thirdly because WvW is probably the least “PvP” playerbase you will find in a PvP mode in a game.

Fourthly because this game is low skill and high cheese, now clueless hypocrites might like to pretend that only applies to “condi” but anyone with an IQ higher than room temperature knows that applies to pretty much everything.

If you are still roaming in this game, or frankly playing WvW as anything more than a joke, then well…

(edited by zinkz.7045)

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Posted by: Offair.2563

Offair.2563

Birdy told me that the Balance Team is pushing for condi to get stronger so there isn’t going to be a nerf to condi, soo therefor WvW is going to be screwed

I hope you are not right, however its Anet we talk about so it wouldn’t surprise me if they buffed condis even more.

Big Babou, Ranger for life.
Madness Rises [Rise] – Banners Hold.
Don’t argue with idiots, they pull you down their level and own you with experience.

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Posted by: Electra.7530

Electra.7530

I am a condi necro and I have a very difficult time competing against power builds. I very rarely see condi builds anymore other than the theif. Most necros I come across are power necros. They can burst me down before I really get my conditions stacked on them. If I’m interrupted or stunned by group of players, it’s game over for me.

Players that can clear my condi off can finish me off, though I can keep stacking the condi. But, seriously, I don’t see a lot of condi anymore. Everyone wants fast kill, huge power bursts.

I run around in dire/trailblazer stats and hear people crying and complaining about that. I have to say, stop it. All my 3k armor gives me is the privilege of being the last one standing in the fight and the one taken down by multiple players.

And there’s so much condi clear it’s ruined the burn guardian build. I had a torment herald that was fun for a while, but … clearing that torment off all the time made it very ineffective.

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Posted by: Nikkinella.8254

Nikkinella.8254

I am a condi necro and I have a very difficult time competing against power builds. I very rarely see condi builds anymore other than the theif. Most necros I come across are power necros. They can burst me down before I really get my conditions stacked on them. If I’m interrupted or stunned by group of players, it’s game over for me.

Players that can clear my condi off can finish me off, though I can keep stacking the condi. But, seriously, I don’t see a lot of condi anymore. Everyone wants fast kill, huge power bursts.

I run around in dire/trailblazer stats and hear people crying and complaining about that. I have to say, stop it. All my 3k armor gives me is the privilege of being the last one standing in the fight and the one taken down by multiple players.

And there’s so much condi clear it’s ruined the burn guardian build. I had a torment herald that was fun for a while, but … clearing that torment off all the time made it very ineffective.

You’re either lying or we’re playing 2 completely different games. Power builds are basically extinct in wvw now. Even for zerging, the meta is all condi now. In roaming, its nothing but condi on every class. I haven’t come across a single player aside from myself using a power build in the past 6 months because of the fact condi is so overpowered and zero risk/high reward now. If you’re not lying, then what server are you on? Because I may have to transfer there if you somehow are in the one place that isn’t infested with cancer.

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Posted by: DemonSeed.3528

DemonSeed.3528

Yeah, don’t know what server you’re on so I can’t comment on that, but where I am, both the servers we are fighting are almost entirely running condi builds exclusively (or at least a high percentage of the groups/blobs/roamers I come across). This matchup has been the most condi I’ve encountered as of late and I am glad that reset is coming soon (although that is not a guarantee I won’t encounter this hell for next matchup). There were still some power users but the condi builds outnumbered them. Usually in the past year I’ve seen a mix up but maybe it’s cos of these weird matchups with higher ranked servers that I see the true extent of condi users.

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Posted by: Justine.6351

Justine.6351

I went roaming tonight against jq and tc with lolhammer rev, lots of power players still.

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Posted by: Bigpapasmurf.5623

Bigpapasmurf.5623

I went roaming tonight against jq and tc with lolhammer rev, lots of power players still.

Im in the same match up and i def see more DPS than condi builds….this is especially apparent when JQ is spawn camping us like a bunch of idjits.

- Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/MC_Celestia
- I am currently a main thief roamer for SF in WvW. LOVE ME!
- {SOAP} Solo/Havoc roamer, lover of good fights

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Posted by: ThomasC.1056

ThomasC.1056

I am a condi necro and I have a very difficult time competing against power builds. I very rarely see condi builds anymore other than the theif. Most necros I come across are power necros. They can burst me down before I really get my conditions stacked on them. If I’m interrupted or stunned by group of players, it’s game over for me.

Players that can clear my condi off can finish me off, though I can keep stacking the condi. But, seriously, I don’t see a lot of condi anymore. Everyone wants fast kill, huge power bursts.

I run around in dire/trailblazer stats and hear people crying and complaining about that. I have to say, stop it. All my 3k armor gives me is the privilege of being the last one standing in the fight and the one taken down by multiple players.

And there’s so much condi clear it’s ruined the burn guardian build. I had a torment herald that was fun for a while, but … clearing that torment off all the time made it very ineffective.

You’re either lying or we’re playing 2 completely different games. Power builds are basically extinct in wvw now. Even for zerging, the meta is all condi now. In roaming, its nothing but condi on every class. I haven’t come across a single player aside from myself using a power build in the past 6 months because of the fact condi is so overpowered and zero risk/high reward now. If you’re not lying, then what server are you on? Because I may have to transfer there if you somehow are in the one place that isn’t infested with cancer.

I play on Augury Rock (EU) and I share Electra’s experience. I mostly do small scale, and here’re my encounters :

  • Warriors : only power headbutt stunlock builds.
  • Guardians : rare in small scale, but still bunky power builds
  • Revenants : very rare ! Hammer glint/shiro
  • Thiefs : stunlock builds, but condi builds are indeed making it back
  • Rangers : kite builds, but I saw some condi rangers
  • Scrappers : very rare
  • Necros : rare, and power builds most of the time
  • Chronos : condi or power
  • Eles : rare. Still the fresh air thing.

Most of the time, small scale = warrior/thiefs/chronos encounters. Maybe it’s a server thing, or it’s just the time needed for the trend to spread, and for player to adapt their gear and gamestyle.

Or it’s just me, because my own experience has roughly no statistical relevance, the very same way everyone here posting “I saw this, so everybody’s running it and it has to be nerfed because I lost” has no statistical relevance at all.

Dunno…

(edited by ThomasC.1056)

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Posted by: Turk.5460

Turk.5460

I’m in T2 NA and exclusively solo/small scale roam. I see way more power builds than condi builds. The only professions I see that are almost always condi specced are necros and mesmers.

Not to say there arent condi rangers/warriors/thieves/guardians, but they are so vastly outnumbered by the amount of power variants of those professions that this is a non-issue in small scale roaming. Haven’t seen a condi rev or engie in weeks.

-Fort Aspenwood- [UNIV] [TLC] [ShW]
-Sorrow’s Furnace-

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Posted by: babazhook.6805

babazhook.6805

I went out on my own power build thief last night and roamed various BLs’ against the TC and JQ. As I tend to fight small groups I kept a record of peoples I encountered in the time I was on.

3 Necros 2 condi 1 pwer
5 warriors 5 power.
2 mesmers condi
1 engineer power
3 rangers all power
6 thieves 4 power 2 condi
2 DH power
No revs.
1 ele power

Obviously this just a small sample size and on a certain time of night and on particular servers , but I can not conclude that power builds are “extinct”

I will not comment on the zerg fights as I did not roam with the group.

(edited by babazhook.6805)

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Posted by: pointaction.4639

pointaction.4639

I run as a Reaper that has over over 2k condition damage and can do anywhere from 25 to 50 stacks of bleeds. Plus 5 to 15 stacks of all other conditions with in about 20 seconds except for confusion which I do not do any of that.

I am not hacking the game I just found based of the meta build but tweaked a lot to fully maximize condition output.

Lately 1 vs 1 to 1 vs 5 fights I win all the time. But 1 vs 10 and higher that is hard to do even though in those larger fights I get 5 to 15 players in down state within the 1st 30 seconds of the fight.

I am always tweaking this build to get it even stronger.

Yes you need skill to really play well.

Also there is ways a tweak to all meta builds both power and condition to get more out of the build you are doing.

Nerfing the condi builds or removing it is not going to happen because I have power builds with other characters of mine have been tweaked too by the same method as I do condi ones.

So stop complaining and figure out what you are doing wrong in your build and make it better.

Lastly have fun playing that is what games are made for to have fun…

The Dragon Core [DC]

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Posted by: Justine.6351

Justine.6351

I run as a Reaper that has over over 2k condition damage and can do anywhere from 25 to 50 stacks of bleeds. Plus 5 to 15 stacks of all other conditions with in about 20 seconds except for confusion which I do not do any of that.

I am not hacking the game I just found based of the meta build but tweaked a lot to fully maximize condition output.

Lately 1 vs 1 to 1 vs 5 fights I win all the time. But 1 vs 10 and higher that is hard to do even though in those larger fights I get 5 to 15 players in down state within the 1st 30 seconds of the fight.

I am always tweaking this build to get it even stronger.

Yes you need skill to really play well.

Also there is ways a tweak to all meta builds both power and condition to get more out of the build you are doing.

Nerfing the condi builds or removing it is not going to happen because I have power builds with other characters of mine have been tweaked too by the same method as I do condi ones.

So stop complaining and figure out what you are doing wrong in your build and make it better.

Lastly have fun playing that is what games are made for to have fun…

Winning 1v5 all the time and 1v10 is hard to do,
Ya totally screams condi is balanced…

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Posted by: Simonoly.4352

Simonoly.4352

I went out on my own power build thief last night and roamed various BLs’ against the TC and JQ. As I tend to fight small groups I kept a record of peoples I encountered in the time I was on.

3 Necros 2 condi 1 pwer
5 warriors 5 power.
2 mesmers condi
1 engineer power
3 rangers all power
6 thieves 4 power 2 condi
2 DH power
No revs.
1 ele power

Obviously this just a small sample size and on a certain time of night and on particular servers , but I can not conclude that power builds are “extinct”

I will not comment on the zerg fights as I did not roam with the group.

This is quite representative of what I see in most of my matchups now. I am starting to see a lot more Ghost Thieves but for the most part it’s power Warriors and power Thieves. I don’t really consider a roaming condi build much of a threat now as my condi clear on my Mesmer, Ranger and now my Thief is really very good without much sacrifice. Still need to be careful around condi Necros though due to all the condi transfers (including an automatic transfer) and those crazy bleed bursts now, but just need to be vigilant and CC it more.

Gandara

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Posted by: Electra.7530

Electra.7530

I am a condi necro and I have a very difficult time competing against power builds. I very rarely see condi builds anymore other than the theif. Most necros I come across are power necros. They can burst me down before I really get my conditions stacked on them. If I’m interrupted or stunned by group of players, it’s game over for me.

Players that can clear my condi off can finish me off, though I can keep stacking the condi. But, seriously, I don’t see a lot of condi anymore. Everyone wants fast kill, huge power bursts.

I run around in dire/trailblazer stats and hear people crying and complaining about that. I have to say, stop it. All my 3k armor gives me is the privilege of being the last one standing in the fight and the one taken down by multiple players.

And there’s so much condi clear it’s ruined the burn guardian build. I had a torment herald that was fun for a while, but … clearing that torment off all the time made it very ineffective.

You’re either lying or we’re playing 2 completely different games. Power builds are basically extinct in wvw now. Even for zerging, the meta is all condi now. In roaming, its nothing but condi on every class. I haven’t come across a single player aside from myself using a power build in the past 6 months because of the fact condi is so overpowered and zero risk/high reward now. If you’re not lying, then what server are you on? Because I may have to transfer there if you somehow are in the one place that isn’t infested with cancer.

Not lying, just my observations. I’m on Emhry Bay. We’re always some server’s guest. I’ll say in zergs there are quite a bit of conditions in the zergs. I don’t play in zergs or follow zergs. I’m only speaking about the players I encounter at camps or monuments or sentries along the way. I would love to encounter a condi build so I can send their conditions right back to them! Most of the necros I encounter are power reapers with seemingly perma shrouds. Even a lot of the Mesmers I see are power mesmers that just power shatter shatter shatter over and over and over. The eles, power. I’ve even experimented with condition versus power on my ele and power eles are awesome. Their overloads are painful.

But if you are all talking about zergs, yes, I’m aware how strong the conditions are in zergs, but I don’t play in zergs. I like to run around with my partner (a power necro) and have work on our reward tracks and skirmish with enemies we run into.

I don’t really consider myself a “great” necro, but I will hurt you if you run into me. But if you’re power, you will probably kill me. It will take a while, but as long as you clear, you can get the better of me.

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Posted by: Electra.7530

Electra.7530

I run as a Reaper that has over over 2k condition damage and can do anywhere from 25 to 50 stacks of bleeds. Plus 5 to 15 stacks of all other conditions with in about 20 seconds except for confusion which I do not do any of that.

I am not hacking the game I just found based of the meta build but tweaked a lot to fully maximize condition output.

Lately 1 vs 1 to 1 vs 5 fights I win all the time. But 1 vs 10 and higher that is hard to do even though in those larger fights I get 5 to 15 players in down state within the 1st 30 seconds of the fight.

I am always tweaking this build to get it even stronger.

Yes you need skill to really play well.

Also there is ways a tweak to all meta builds both power and condition to get more out of the build you are doing.

Nerfing the condi builds or removing it is not going to happen because I have power builds with other characters of mine have been tweaked too by the same method as I do condi ones.

So stop complaining and figure out what you are doing wrong in your build and make it better.

Lastly have fun playing that is what games are made for to have fun…

Winning 1v5 all the time and 1v10 is hard to do,
Ya totally screams condi is balanced…

Hey, Justine, You sound AWESOME! I’d love to be just like you, but I"m not.

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Posted by: Justine.6351

Justine.6351

I run as a Reaper that has over over 2k condition damage and can do anywhere from 25 to 50 stacks of bleeds. Plus 5 to 15 stacks of all other conditions with in about 20 seconds except for confusion which I do not do any of that.

I am not hacking the game I just found based of the meta build but tweaked a lot to fully maximize condition output.

Lately 1 vs 1 to 1 vs 5 fights I win all the time. But 1 vs 10 and higher that is hard to do even though in those larger fights I get 5 to 15 players in down state within the 1st 30 seconds of the fight.

I am always tweaking this build to get it even stronger.

Yes you need skill to really play well.

Also there is ways a tweak to all meta builds both power and condition to get more out of the build you are doing.

Nerfing the condi builds or removing it is not going to happen because I have power builds with other characters of mine have been tweaked too by the same method as I do condi ones.

So stop complaining and figure out what you are doing wrong in your build and make it better.

Lastly have fun playing that is what games are made for to have fun…

Winning 1v5 all the time and 1v10 is hard to do,
Ya totally screams condi is balanced…

Hey, Justine, You sound AWESOME! I’d love to be just like you, but I"m not.

I practice being amazing on the weekends.

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Posted by: Spurnshadow.3678

Spurnshadow.3678

I am a condi necro and I have a very difficult time competing against power builds. I very rarely see condi builds anymore other than the theif. Most necros I come across are power necros. They can burst me down before I really get my conditions stacked on them. If I’m interrupted or stunned by group of players, it’s game over for me.

Players that can clear my condi off can finish me off, though I can keep stacking the condi. But, seriously, I don’t see a lot of condi anymore. Everyone wants fast kill, huge power bursts.

I run around in dire/trailblazer stats and hear people crying and complaining about that. I have to say, stop it. All my 3k armor gives me is the privilege of being the last one standing in the fight and the one taken down by multiple players.

And there’s so much condi clear it’s ruined the burn guardian build. I had a torment herald that was fun for a while, but … clearing that torment off all the time made it very ineffective.

You’re either lying or we’re playing 2 completely different games. Power builds are basically extinct in wvw now. Even for zerging, the meta is all condi now. In roaming, its nothing but condi on every class. I haven’t come across a single player aside from myself using a power build in the past 6 months because of the fact condi is so overpowered and zero risk/high reward now. If you’re not lying, then what server are you on? Because I may have to transfer there if you somehow are in the one place that isn’t infested with cancer.

He’s not lying. No one competent in large scale combat uses condi builds. Guard, guard, rev with an ele, druid, or mesmer as a 4th means you will never do condi damage to that group. Wiping unguilded, uncoordinated pugs in EB with your condi zerg doesn’t count.

Roaming: it’s a rock, paper, scissors game combined with l2p. I have 0 active condi clears on my zerk guard. The trick is bursting down the condi damage dealer asap before they kill me. Condi on necros takes a while to ramp up. Some classes will anhiallate me, such as a burst condi mesmer. But, they have to be good.

As someone else pointed out, i’d say interrupt builds are more problematic than condi builds, but you have to be really good at them.

Sometimes, people are just better skilled at the game. I’d sooner blame you running a sub par build, sub par gear, or watching videos of you playing to see if you’re doing something wrong, or what you could be doing better rather than just putting out a ridiculous, blanket statement that condi needs to be nerfed or removed. That’s just irrational.

Blackgate Native. It takes tremendous strength and skill to pull a lever.

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Posted by: Jim Hunter.6821

Jim Hunter.6821

I’m in T2 NA and exclusively solo/small scale roam. I see way more power builds than condi builds. The only professions I see that are almost always condi specced are necros and mesmers.

Not to say there arent condi rangers/warriors/thieves/guardians, but they are so vastly outnumbered by the amount of power variants of those professions that this is a non-issue in small scale roaming. Haven’t seen a condi rev or engie in weeks.

Seeing the same thing in T1 and T4 Na, way more power roamers than condi.

Also known as Puck when my account isn’t suspended
LGN

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Posted by: UmbraNoctis.1907

UmbraNoctis.1907

Not everything that applies condis is a condi build and it is not always condis that kill you, even if you have some on you. If you see only condi builds, maybe take a closer look to what actually kills you. I mean, i got accused of running “op condi cheese” while playing a gs + s/x power ranger.

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Posted by: Justine.6351

Justine.6351

Not everything that applies condis is a condi build and it is not always condis that kill you, even if you have some on you. If you see only condi builds, maybe take a closer look to what actually kills you. I mean, i got accused of running “op condi cheese” while playing a gs + s/x power ranger.

That’s actually a very good point. Power Boon Corrupt Reapers can really put out a lot of conditions that while they don’t do a lot of damage, they certainly don’t help the enemy either.

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Posted by: UncleSniper.4086

UncleSniper.4086

I know I will almost certainly be crucified for this, but… y’all (including the OP) are missing the point. If you want to kill a handful of players with your condi builds, go to sPvP. What differentiates WvW from sPvP is the large group (and by “large”, I mean "more than an sPvP team could hold) fights. In such fights, the conditions getting thrown around are ridiculous these days; whichever side has more condi builds will win, period. This is the issue that needs to be addressed, and if roamers get the short end of that stick, so be it.

Then again, changes to the game mechanics have always been unhealthy to WvW in that they all favor numbers over everything; I guess having condition spam added to that happy family was inevitable. As such, the chances of A’Net doing anything about anything stated in the WvW subforum are pretty much zilch…

No one competent in large scale combat uses condi builds.

That may or may not be true, but ask yourself this: How many players in this game are actually competent? All I see in group fights is everyone has 30 stacks of every condition on them at all times and if you don’t have a revenant with you to give you resistance (also at all times), you’re doomed. Maybe that means the people spamming those condis are incompetent, but it sure seems to work well for them. If you have people spewing AoE condi stuff in all directions, what’s a melee player supposed to do? We all know how this ends, namely in that “pirate ship” nonsense, and I would sure hope that nobody wants to re-open that can of worms.

In before people tell me to “L2P” or that running more condi cleanse should take care of it. Yeah, I’m sure you’d all love for us to replace all of our skills and traits with anti-condi ones, so we have even less chance of surviving the people in your condi groups that do run the occasional power build (like a hammer revenant spamming 45k Coalescence of Ruin and Phase Smash from max range on a 2.6 second cooldown, one-shotting five targets each time) and we have even less means to actually attack you back.

As I see it, the problem is this: To recover from a strike attack, you need to heal. To recover from a condition attack, you need to heal and you need to cleanse conditions. If that doesn’t say “unbalanced”, I don’t know what does. Do rebut this; I’d really like that.

(edited by UncleSniper.4086)

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Posted by: UmbraNoctis.1907

UmbraNoctis.1907

As I see it, the problem is this: To recover from a strike attack, you need to heal. To recover from a condition attack, you need to heal and you need to cleanse conditions. If that doesn’t say “unbalanced”, I don’t know what does. Do rebut this; I’d really like that.

Generally condi dmg is easier to outheal than power dmg. If people take more dmg from condis, it is because they stack defense against direct dmg like crazy, but refuse to take counter to condis. And in this case they should die to condis. Nothing is more boring and skilless than boon spamming facetanking bunkers, that don’t take any damage because of 1337 passive crap.

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Posted by: foxof.8752

foxof.8752

just found out daze will cancel out stun and wise-versa, so i would propose in WVW, the 14 full list of conditions, should cut half by half of them will cancel out half of them. e.g apply bleeding on poison cancel out poison and wise-versa, blind <> fear, Chilled <> slowed, Vulnerability <> Weakness etc, let see 7 condis at a time is more manageable, and cut half server calculation load XD

(edited by foxof.8752)

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Posted by: Bhima.9518

Bhima.9518

I am a condi necro and I have a very difficult time competing against power builds. I very rarely see condi builds anymore other than the theif. Most necros I come across are power necros. They can burst me down before I really get my conditions stacked on them. If I’m interrupted or stunned by group of players, it’s game over for me.

Players that can clear my condi off can finish me off, though I can keep stacking the condi. But, seriously, I don’t see a lot of condi anymore. Everyone wants fast kill, huge power bursts.

I run around in dire/trailblazer stats and hear people crying and complaining about that. I have to say, stop it. All my 3k armor gives me is the privilege of being the last one standing in the fight and the one taken down by multiple players.

And there’s so much condi clear it’s ruined the burn guardian build. I had a torment herald that was fun for a while, but … clearing that torment off all the time made it very ineffective.

You’re either lying or we’re playing 2 completely different games. Power builds are basically extinct in wvw now. Even for zerging, the meta is all condi now. In roaming, its nothing but condi on every class. I haven’t come across a single player aside from myself using a power build in the past 6 months because of the fact condi is so overpowered and zero risk/high reward now. If you’re not lying, then what server are you on? Because I may have to transfer there if you somehow are in the one place that isn’t infested with cancer.

He’s not lying. No one competent in large scale combat uses condi builds. Guard, guard, rev with an ele, druid, or mesmer as a 4th means you will never do condi damage to that group. Wiping unguilded, uncoordinated pugs in EB with your condi zerg doesn’t count.

Roaming: it’s a rock, paper, scissors game combined with l2p. I have 0 active condi clears on my zerk guard. The trick is bursting down the condi damage dealer asap before they kill me. Condi on necros takes a while to ramp up. Some classes will anhiallate me, such as a burst condi mesmer. But, they have to be good.

As someone else pointed out, i’d say interrupt builds are more problematic than condi builds, but you have to be really good at them.

Sometimes, people are just better skilled at the game. I’d sooner blame you running a sub par build, sub par gear, or watching videos of you playing to see if you’re doing something wrong, or what you could be doing better rather than just putting out a ridiculous, blanket statement that condi needs to be nerfed or removed. That’s just irrational.

You are on Blackgate, yet it seems you’ve never heard of corruption before. The reason Condi Necro is THE defacto zerg damage dealer is because they can, at will, completely negate much of the defense against condition damage… all while being built quite tanky. Honestly, if you aren’t getting corruption spammed and condi-showered it can only be because you are running on a BG blob of 50+ versus everyone else’s 25 or less blob.

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Posted by: Nikkinella.8254

Nikkinella.8254

Alot of falsehoods being spread around by condi players. You can very easily negate power damage to practically nothing with high armor and constant protection and weakness spam to the point you can ignore power players completely. I can easily 1 vs 4 most power builds with very little investment in defensive stats against power damage because of that. On the other hand, i can spec entirely againt condi with anti condi food, runes, traits, and its still a struggle to kill some condi builds just 1 vs 1.

Power damage is additive. If multiple power users are attacking you, you can still survive because theyre all doing the same negligible damage against you. Condi damage however stacks multiplicatively when more players are added. The damage becomes exponential against more than one condi user at a time and it gets to the point that regardless of how many cleanses you have, it becomes impossible to deal with without complete immunity.

You should not be able to 1 vs 10 and stack 50 bleed instantly by yourself and nearly kill that group. That is not balanced. That is not skill on your part, that is called overpowered. The majority of players that play condi only think they are good, they aren’t. Theyre being carried by a broken mechanic and they know it. Which is why they argue so hard against it when anyone suggests something to balance it. They like their god mode and don’t want it taken away.

The fact of the matter though is regardless of your personal opinion, it isn’t healthy for the game mode in its current state. There’s a reason why everyone blobs up now and stacks resistance as much as possible. There’s a reason why GvG is dead now and there’s few roamers to be found now. Those of you who only ever zerged before and got sick of being crushed by more skilled players finally feel useful and i could understand that. But the current state of condi is driving away the more skilled players that enjoyed GvG and fast paced, skill based combat as opposed to our current skill-less condi spam meta. It doesn’t take any skill to have 3k armor and 30k health, press 2 buttons and kill groups of people.

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Posted by: UmbraNoctis.1907

UmbraNoctis.1907

What falsehoods are you talking about? Nonesense like “condis stack multiplicative” is coming more from players like you. And if condis are the only way to kill people even when outnumbering them, then it sounds more like passive defense against power is over the top. Who would have thought …
And bunker zergs facetanking each other is surely very “skillfull”. Too bad those skillfull GvG players aren’t able to adjust and take more aoe cleanses instead of stacking passive dmg reduction, because then they would actually have to play a bit more active.

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Posted by: Aeolus.3615

Aeolus.3615

they cant balance power creep, game was designed to have power creep, since most players think playing arround with power creep its their skill. (note the cleave/aoe spammy gameplay that gw2 has, its not clever and its a awfull design).

Gw2 was made for bad gammers or slackers, players that never achieved nothign in gamming, every one have a change to be at least decent playign some builds, it is PVE game, everythign else are just aditions for the game do not look so empty in terms of gamemode.

nexp expansion will have more conditions stackign and more easy ways of condi stacking but as well more direct damage gimmmicks, traps , more stealth more LAg…

U guys should be discussing a similiar ground place to avoid Anet not “nerf” the power creep that gw2 has foundations on, ANet team is awfull when it reaches to game balance and skill design, they are just awfull, but players should be asking for that similiar ground that makes their “balance to work” w/o being to much, one issue is how easy is to staking damge in non targets (due alot of skills are cleaves or aoe based), the light field blast was to adress part of that meanwhile was not the best aproach since they should be reducing the server side iterations as well to try to get less lag they are creating more iterations even with furthers class advacements.

Gw2 Anet team is counterproductive.

1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.

(edited by Aeolus.3615)

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Posted by: Junkpile.7439

Junkpile.7439

I think that bigger problem is that bad players think that they know how to play and whine when they lose.

Low quality trolling since launch
Seafarer’s Rest EotM grinch

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Posted by: Dawdler.8521

Dawdler.8521

The fact of the matter though is regardless of your personal opinion, it isn’t healthy for the game mode in its current state. There’s a reason why everyone blobs up now and stacks resistance as much as possible. There’s a reason why GvG is dead now and there’s few roamers to be found now. Those of you who only ever zerged before and got sick of being crushed by more skilled players finally feel useful and i could understand that. But the current state of condi is driving away the more skilled players that enjoyed GvG and fast paced, skill based combat as opposed to our current skill-less condi spam meta. It doesn’t take any skill to have 3k armor and 30k health, press 2 buttons and kill groups of people.

And yet as I have stated multiple times, it’s the GvG guilds that has kittened and moaned that zergbusting isnt possible anymore… Yet your 1v10 example is somehow “wrong” and unbalanced when its exactly what hardcore WvWers wanted?

I mean sure some of us said, no it’s not right that 1 meteor storm should be able to hit 50 people for 5K each time a meteor drop and how such changes would only empower the bigger zerg since they follow the same rules but people was foaming at the mouth and throwing hardcore guilds around and how 10v50 should be possible in order to punish those stacking on top of each other.

But when it’s condi stacking instead of “fair” insta-killing power, everyone looses their mind.

Hm.

Isnt that odd.

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Posted by: RodOfDeath.5247

RodOfDeath.5247

Alot of falsehoods being spread around by condi players. You can very easily negate power damage to practically nothing with high armor and constant protection and weakness spam to the point you can ignore power players completely. I can easily 1 vs 4 most power builds with very little investment in defensive stats against power damage because of that. On the other hand, i can spec entirely againt condi with anti condi food, runes, traits, and its still a struggle to kill some condi builds just 1 vs 1.

Power damage is additive. If multiple power users are attacking you, you can still survive because theyre all doing the same negligible damage against you. Condi damage however stacks multiplicatively when more players are added. The damage becomes exponential against more than one condi user at a time and it gets to the point that regardless of how many cleanses you have, it becomes impossible to deal with without complete immunity.

You should not be able to 1 vs 10 and stack 50 bleed instantly by yourself and nearly kill that group. That is not balanced. That is not skill on your part, that is called overpowered. The majority of players that play condi only think they are good, they aren’t. Theyre being carried by a broken mechanic and they know it. Which is why they argue so hard against it when anyone suggests something to balance it. They like their god mode and don’t want it taken away.

The fact of the matter though is regardless of your personal opinion, it isn’t healthy for the game mode in its current state. There’s a reason why everyone blobs up now and stacks resistance as much as possible. There’s a reason why GvG is dead now and there’s few roamers to be found now. Those of you who only ever zerged before and got sick of being crushed by more skilled players finally feel useful and i could understand that. But the current state of condi is driving away the more skilled players that enjoyed GvG and fast paced, skill based combat as opposed to our current skill-less condi spam meta. It doesn’t take any skill to have 3k armor and 30k health, press 2 buttons and kill groups of people.

Only March and this guy gets post of the year. Spot on.

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Posted by: Junkpile.7439

Junkpile.7439

I was much better player when i played power because it was so much easier. I got much more bags too.

Low quality trolling since launch
Seafarer’s Rest EotM grinch

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Posted by: SpellOfIniquity.1780

SpellOfIniquity.1780

It’d sad that it has taken me this long to realize it, but I think I’m going to finally stop commenting on the “nerf condi’s” threads.

Let the kids complain and hope that someone is listening, but no one who actually knows how to play cares. Which is, I hope, exactly how ANet feels as well.

Necromancer, Ranger, Warrior, Engineer
Champion: Phantom, Hunter, Legionnaire, Genius
WvW rank: Diamond Colonel | Maguuma

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Posted by: Balthazzarr.1349

Balthazzarr.1349

Birdy told me that the Balance Team is pushing for condi to get stronger so there isn’t going to be a nerf to condi, soo therefor WvW is going to be screwed

If this true and it happens then I tend to agree that this will make things much worse in wvw. Even with Druid I can condi clear 15 conditions… but that doesn’t stop the zerg from hitting with another 15 one second later. The condi that hits now is extremely nasty and frankly I don’t even use condi on my Druid. Considering the amount of people trying to keep condi clear going I use a zerk style build with lots of toughness and health. But it’s still pretty useless against a group of condi beasts. Making condi stronger would seriously threaten what fun is left in this WvW area.

… just call me … Tim :)

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Posted by: Cheeseball C.8395

Cheeseball C.8395

If anet removed condi, people will just complain about tanky builds and unlike against condi, cant do anything to kill it

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Posted by: JDjitsu.7895

JDjitsu.7895

Birdy told me that the Balance Team is pushing for condi to get stronger so there isn’t going to be a nerf to condi, soo therefor WvW is going to be screwed

Troll or not m8, you sir made me lmao. Bravo

Wiggin/LittleEnder/XeroCool/Filthydirtyrotten/MizDemeanor/EnderThaXenocide/ShadowOfWiggin-
Maguuma & A Few alts on other NA/EU servers

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Posted by: Spurnshadow.3678

Spurnshadow.3678

I am a condi necro and I have a very difficult time competing against power builds. I very rarely see condi builds anymore other than the theif. Most necros I come across are power necros. They can burst me down before I really get my conditions stacked on them. If I’m interrupted or stunned by group of players, it’s game over for me.

Players that can clear my condi off can finish me off, though I can keep stacking the condi. But, seriously, I don’t see a lot of condi anymore. Everyone wants fast kill, huge power bursts.

I run around in dire/trailblazer stats and hear people crying and complaining about that. I have to say, stop it. All my 3k armor gives me is the privilege of being the last one standing in the fight and the one taken down by multiple players.

And there’s so much condi clear it’s ruined the burn guardian build. I had a torment herald that was fun for a while, but … clearing that torment off all the time made it very ineffective.

You’re either lying or we’re playing 2 completely different games. Power builds are basically extinct in wvw now. Even for zerging, the meta is all condi now. In roaming, its nothing but condi on every class. I haven’t come across a single player aside from myself using a power build in the past 6 months because of the fact condi is so overpowered and zero risk/high reward now. If you’re not lying, then what server are you on? Because I may have to transfer there if you somehow are in the one place that isn’t infested with cancer.

He’s not lying. No one competent in large scale combat uses condi builds. Guard, guard, rev with an ele, druid, or mesmer as a 4th means you will never do condi damage to that group. Wiping unguilded, uncoordinated pugs in EB with your condi zerg doesn’t count.

Roaming: it’s a rock, paper, scissors game combined with l2p. I have 0 active condi clears on my zerk guard. The trick is bursting down the condi damage dealer asap before they kill me. Condi on necros takes a while to ramp up. Some classes will anhiallate me, such as a burst condi mesmer. But, they have to be good.

As someone else pointed out, i’d say interrupt builds are more problematic than condi builds, but you have to be really good at them.

Sometimes, people are just better skilled at the game. I’d sooner blame you running a sub par build, sub par gear, or watching videos of you playing to see if you’re doing something wrong, or what you could be doing better rather than just putting out a ridiculous, blanket statement that condi needs to be nerfed or removed. That’s just irrational.

You are on Blackgate, yet it seems you’ve never heard of corruption before. The reason Condi Necro is THE defacto zerg damage dealer is because they can, at will, completely negate much of the defense against condition damage… all while being built quite tanky. Honestly, if you aren’t getting corruption spammed and condi-showered it can only be because you are running on a BG blob of 50+ versus everyone else’s 25 or less blob.

Corrupt boon is a joke now. It only converts 3. That’s nothing. One guardian running purging flames or specced into Virtues cleanses that instantly. If you’re talking about wells… nope, sorry. Dodgeroll. Many guards still run runes of the trooper and PoV. Tempests run Runes of the Trooper and are passively cleansing the crap out of their party. If they are massively getting corrupted, then theres more cleanses, more buddies in your party cleansing, and a rev with resistance. GL getting off your crappy epidemic. It has a 2 second cast time (yeah, i know the skill fact says 1 second, but it’s another 3/4 or 1 second more untill the condis are actually spread). In that time, all my condis have vanished or I have resistance.

If you’re fighting a group that’s stupid enough to stand in a ton of red circles, then they deserve to die. This argument shouldn’t apply to them. If you’re talking about small 5 or 10 man roaming groups, that’s also a different story as those are specced for more self reliance and higher dps. When speaking of WvW, I generally default my thinking and arguments to the 20-25 man guilded group with some pugs. If this is what you’re in and dying to condis, then you need to rethink your builds, group comp, and possibly drivers. Condis should do nothing to a guild group. If you’re a pug and not in a guild, then join one. WvW is a large group combat game mode that requires cooperation and teamwork to win, not a bunch of special snowflakes blobbed together.

Blackgate Native. It takes tremendous strength and skill to pull a lever.

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Posted by: Threather.9354

Threather.9354

Play more revs. If you have only eles, guardians and necros your blob will melt instantly.
1 rev per party mean 50% damage reduction on push and resistance when being condibombed. Also they do most overall dps in blob (warrior would in guildsize but in blobfights rev can keep constant damage up due to range).

You will melt in 2 seconds indeed if all you got is 2 guards in party. Even before HoT there was shout warrior in there somewhere (and its now somewhat viable too with shouts buffed, even tho rev is better)

Diamond Rank Copyrights [CR]
EU Roamer, Dueler, Commander, Fighter, Scout

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Posted by: CrimeMaker.8612

CrimeMaker.8612

Honestly, the stats aren’t the problem. Dire is a condition damage main stat with vitality and toughness secondary stats. It can be compared to Soldier, Soldier is a power main stat with secondary vitality, and toughness. Same goes for trailblazer/wanderers.
The main problem is how the condition damage works. The conditions you put out for them to do any damage you just need condition damage as the main stat and all of your other stats can be put into Vitality/Toughness.
For power build to do any damage you need to balance out Power/Precision/Ferocity/Toughness/Vitality to get the perfect match for the kind of build you are going for.
For condition builds its literally Condition Damage/Toughness/Vitality.
To balance this out Arena Net can go two ways,
1) This is the lazy way which is simply just remove Dire / Trailblazer.
2) This one they will actually have to put some brain into it which is if ypu want the conditions to do massive damage you will need to put a lot more stat into Precision and Expertise.
Currently conditions do damage over time and they do massive amount of damage over time. If Arena Net chooses to go with optiom #2 they will also need to change how condition damage works.
-Condition damage will need to change from damage over time to burst damage.
-Every class will have access to specific conditions, for example Necromancer will have access to bleeding, chills, and fire from Death shroud auto attack, Guardians will have access to fire and slowness, Warriors will have access to bleeding and fire, Mesmers will have access to bleeding and confusion, Revenants will have access to poison and torment, thieves will have access to poison and bleeding, etc…
-The amount of cleanses a class will need to be limited.
-Resistance will need to work more like protection not complete immunity to conditions.
Basically with option #2 the game mechanism will need to change and as we all know Arena Net balance team is lazy (Blasting light field cleanses A condition). So yeah please just remove Dire and Trailblazers for the time being. Nerf epi.

Copy pasted from other post ecks dee.

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Posted by: Reh.5986

Reh.5986

It would be nice if some of the big hitting condi application skills had more of a tell…similar to big hitting power skills. It really is annoying to have every condi in the game instantly applied without a chance to dodge it (aside from a timing guess).

Some classes get a bit too tanky in dire/tb for the amount of dmg they are able to put out. Condis burning through invuln is really annoying. Would be nice to allow control condis but nix dmg while invuln…at least with invulns that lock condi cleanse and other skills out.

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Posted by: xikira.3264

xikira.3264

I have my main account on gom and my alt on fa. All I come across is condition builds it is very rare for me to run into a power build to fight. I wish they would tie in how much condition damage you get with how much toughness you have. Kind of like they do physical or even make a new defense stat to help tie in not getting much condition damage. It would also be nice to be able to choose which condition your condition removal skill removes.

“My potions are too strong for you, traveler.”
Potion Sella

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Posted by: hayabusafmw.9370

hayabusafmw.9370

I will keep this short.
Anet remove or nerf the condi cause in wvw there is no piont to roam or to have fun fights anymore. This is what wvw is now 1 enemy spam a stupid skill. You, remove condi, resistance, heal. Your boons got removed. Heals, restistance, remove condi. CD. Game over. Your scwered.

Either give resistance a longer stack and cannot be removed. Or give more condi removal to other classes and not only DRUID!! Or bring back the good old days where small group was be possible to wipe blobs (with no high condi damage!!). Because now there is 0% chance to wipe blobs

Fix the game… thank god..

it is not only the condi, it’s the one shot philosophy anet has taken the last year. Spamming 15k damage every 2 seconds for 16k life pool is not fun to anybody.
Now this game feels like playing an fps.

+10