Guild Wars 2

Can we able to spam waypoint every 3 mins between defense event anymore?
Please fix, simply adjust longer event timer will be better.
Enemy zerg respawn in stonemist lord room is terrible and endless fight in lord room.

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

Wow. That is so freakin weird looking. Look at all those narrow paths! The whole map is practically a choke point!

I can’t help but think that they really missed out on a huge opportunity to use the new gliders there (and yes, I know why they didn’t.. I wouldn’t want to be the guy who had to prevent/fix any exploitable points).

It looks like the only area for open field fights is in the middle in what I hope is a Forrest?

On the other hand, I may be one of those aholes who ends up camping these narrow paths with superior ballistas, anyone wanna make a guild dedicated to ballista farms?

I understand some are speaking about these waypoints changes making sense for the new map but the new map is not meant to replace the old BLs forever and it still makes the WP in SW/SE towers to be ridiculously stupid. The distance from spawn to southern towers is completely benign. Might as well just delete those waypoints altogether instead.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

Just to clarifying a few points, since there seems to be some confusion. On Borderlands the 3 capturable waypoints are at Garrison, SE Tower and SW Tower. Garrison is for the home team and then each of the invading teams gets a waypoint at their closest tower. These waypoints can be contested as normal. We’ve considered home team waypoints for the Bay/Hills keeps too, but that’s probably too strong. Keep supply depot max goes up to 1100 at T3, not 500.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Speaking about the current borderlands map as we didn’t play the new map yet:
It looks like the enemy teams on your own home border will be strengthened a lot. Defending the side keeps will be a lot harder, as the enemies can just waypoint pretty close when they die in fights. This could be really frustrating for the defenders and I see the home borders even more abandoned in the future.

I loved the sieges for hills and bay, no matter if I was the defender or the attacker. Those battles could last for several hours. I question if those fights can still happen with the new system. It all sounds like it will be a lot quicker game mode.

Another thing I worry about is that dead defenders will lay there for the whole five minutes waiting for someone to rezz them, as they need to run much farther when they decide to waypoint. Personally I hope this will be an incentive for people trying to become better with their characters so they don’t die 24/7.

I’d rather prefer no waypoints at all (except the spawn points).

Tyler Bearce.3427:

Just to clarifying a few points, since there seems to be some confusion. On Borderlands the 3 capturable waypoints are at Garrison, SE Tower and SW Tower. Garrison is for the home team and then each of the invading teams gets a waypoint at their closest tower. These waypoints can be contested as normal. We’ve considered home team waypoints for the Bay/Hills keeps too, but that’s probably too strong. Keep supply depot max goes up to 1100 at T3, not 500.

Thanks Tyler! So happy to know!

Interesting changes with the waypoints. I think I might like this.

WP’s are only for the closest team, thats good. Now people will have harder time to camp spawns as they have to run a loooong way back if they die.

Bay and Hills loosing waypoints means that the map balance will shift more towards the three-section way like EB is (the way I think the map should be played). Now the attacking teams have the advantage for the keeps closest to their WP.

Maybe these changes make it so that enemy borderlands are not considered as a raiding fields only and there would be more defending from the “attacking” team as well. Would be cool to see all maps tri-colored.

The attacking teams home tower WP, hmmm. While it’s not the most convenient wp, it still gives advantage. The tower is faster to siege up when the team can run to supply camp and WP back to the tower. The WP is easy to get as you only have to take out the southernmost tower which is hardest to hold for the defenders. On Bay side the Briar tower gives a good advantage to breach Bay from relative safety.

Lake tower still stays pretty useless as it’s way too easy to trebuche from Hills and you can’t interact with the Hills keep from Lake tower.

And the two towers become a good supply depot for the sieging team as you can always WP back into it and take supplies (assuming it’s not contested and it has supplies in).

I’ve got a valid question:
Are these changes the fruit from the ideas of the WvW CDI months ago?

This will just kill the home border….
How do you want to defend your keep without WP on your BL ?
Today you can defend bay, kill the blob, and switch to hills to help… And just leave 5 to 10 people in your keep to kill the remain ennemy… Now you have to choose…. Because if you go to defend Hills, there is no way you have a chance to defend Bay !
With this you can be sure to loose your 2 keep at each prime ! It’s just impossible to hold 2 ennemies blob with no WP in your keep and with ennemy TP just near your keep….
The last MU our team keep hills for 5 days long ! Now we will just loose our keep all prime, because we will never be able to hold the 2 ennemies group at the same time…

Why bother to siege a keep, if you are sure to loose it at all prime… No reason to spend money or take time to do the job. Thx, with the auto upgrade, and the WP update you have just killed the scout job and home borderland domination…. I think that I will leave GW soon with all of this change…

Paavotar.3971:

Interesting changes with the waypoints. I think I might like this.

WP’s are only for the closest team, thats good. Now people will have harder time to camp spawns as they have to run a loooong way back if they die.

Bay and Hills loosing waypoints means that the map balance will shift more towards the three-section way like EB is (the way I think the map should be played). Now the attacking teams have the advantage for the keeps closest to their WP.

The situation now is, there can be really long sieges in the outer keeps, which is great in my opinion. The time you need for running is pretty equal for both teams (e.g. SW-spawn to hills for the invaders, mid-keep to hills for the defenders). Tactics are very important here.

As you say, the invaders will have the advantage for “their” outer garri. That is the reason I worry that the homeland defenders won’t be able to hold the outer keeps for a long time. The invaders just need to block the mid-keep-waypoint and the chances to hold the outer keep are pretty low for the defenders.
There is no reason to siege up hills or bay, when you know it will fall every prime time. Maybe servers with a small population won’t be even able to capture an outer keep.

I worry that there won’t be long sieges anymore.
.. that I’ll see even more blobs with omegas rushing keeps.
.. that there’ll be less equal fights.

sephiroth.4217:

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

Wow. That is so freakin weird looking. Look at all those narrow paths! The whole map is practically a choke point!

I can’t help but think that they really missed out on a huge opportunity to use the new gliders there (and yes, I know why they didn’t.. I wouldn’t want to be the guy who had to prevent/fix any exploitable points).

It looks like the only area for open field fights is in the middle in what I hope is a Forrest?

On the other hand, I may be one of those aholes who ends up camping these narrow paths with superior ballistas, anyone wanna make a guild dedicated to ballista farms?

I’m in! What server?

Just a question, are all this change only with the new map ? Or do we will see the new upgrade and the new WP sooner for the actual map ?

So the satisfaction to destroy a waypoint is gone?
The only point to attack a T3 keep mostly?
You attack a fully upgraded keep to reset the WP.
Disappointing changes, WvW will die more and more.

Paavotar.3971:

Bay and Hills loosing waypoints means that the map balance will shift more towards the three-section way like EB is (the way I think the map should be played). Now the attacking teams have the advantage for the keeps closest to their WP.

There doesn’t seem to be any home-team advantage to the BL under these conditions, and it does look like they will play similarly to EB. But what is the point in having four EB maps? Why not just eliminate the BL entirely and make one giant EB if that’s the desired style of play?

They don’t have the server to handle 1 big eb…. and this is just eotm…

I’m little confused at 7:24 time shows blue owning garri on enemy red map but has a wp garri and has sw tower wp ??
http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/b/642258148

Xillllix.3485:

I wish you guys would bring back the ORB mechanic in the borderlands map. The CTF style of play was really intense and since it’s gone the borderland maps have never been as fun. Back then some players were hacking but you probably have fixed that by now. In a forum post you guys said it would be back.

The Ruins area should do something else than give a stat bonus, right now everyone ignores. Also the “capture 3 points” objective is just not fun.

Speak for yourself. My server, heck all of T1 pays close attention to bloodlust. You get a ton of PPT from stomps, often times more than the structural PPT. Sometimes I don’t like zerging and want to roam. This gives me something else to do other than mindlessly killing yak, camp, yak yak, camp. I often times will run into an enemy roamer trying to cap as well, and 1/1 fights ensue.

Bloodlust has been a great enhancement to the game.

KittyCatMeow.5764:

I’m little confused at 7:24 time shows blue owning garri on enemy red map but has a wp garri and has sw tower wp ??
http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/b/642258148

Yeah we had big discussion about this map earlier in the thread. Its likely a dev account you are seeing so dont try to hard to make sense of what server they are on. It doesnt add up.

The Dev responded in this thread on page 1 explaining what it will be.

Paavotar.3971:

Interesting changes with the waypoints. I think I might like this.

Would be cool to see all maps tri-colored.

Sich.7103:

With this you can be sure to loose your 2 keep at each prime ! It’s just impossible to hold 2 ennemies blob with no WP in your keep and with ennemy TP just near your keep….
The last MU our team keep hills for 5 days long !

Manvaeris.9857:

The situation now is, there can be really long sieges in the outer keeps, which is great in my opinion. The time you need for running is pretty equal for both teams (e.g. SW-spawn to hills for the invaders, mid-keep to hills for the defenders). Tactics are very important here.

As you say, the invaders will have the advantage for “their” outer garri. That is the reason I worry that the homeland defenders won’t be able to hold the outer keeps for a long time. The invaders just need to block the mid-keep-waypoint and the chances to hold the outer keep are pretty low for the defenders.

I agree with Paavotar on this. I think it would be great to see more tri-colored Home BL.

The most boring thing in the world is to log in and see all three BL the home team’s color. Because that means nobody’s fighting. Sometimes when I log in and see that I just log right off again.

It will be good for the Home BL to lose their side keeps during prime. Holding Hills for almost the entire matchup is is not good for the game I don’t think.

Unfortunately the mentality has developed that the entire Home BL must be secured before going to the enemy BL’s (at least on the non-top tiers). This leads to more PvD, more K-training and less fights.

Each map is set up in thirds. The side keeps in the BL are not the home teams keeps. They were designed to be the attacking enemies keeps. That way the fighting will stay fresh.

Yeah, 4 eb…. If I want to play on a three faction map I go to eb…. Home borderland is our home… We want to protect our home, and all the home map is the home, not only the north 1/3….

borgs.6103:

I’ve got a valid question:
Are these changes the fruit from the ideas of the WvW CDI months ago?

I don’t remember seeing these changes in it, but I left it partway through in disgust at the differing upper tier/lower tier mentality and some not able to see the other side and see why each persons proposals would be horrible for the other, which sounds like these changes so perhaps?

Tyler Bearce.3427:

Just to clarifying a few points, since there seems to be some confusion. On Borderlands the 3 capturable waypoints are at Garrison, SE Tower and SW Tower. Garrison is for the home team and then each of the invading teams gets a waypoint at their closest tower. These waypoints can be contested as normal. We’ve considered home team waypoints for the Bay/Hills keeps too, but that’s probably too strong. Keep supply depot max goes up to 1100 at T3, not 500.

Terrible idea that shows devs have no knowledge of how the game is playing in the lower tiers (“lower” means at least as high as T4).

Servers don’t have enough population to run with reasonable numbers in both EB and home BL. Without WP at Bay and Hills there pretty much is no defending those keeps in off hours (off hours at means any time outside 4 hours of primetime). So more paper keeps and more PvD.

What about posting permanent scouts? Well, it’s not surprising to see little to no action for hours: scouts now pass the time getting a small amount of actual gameplay by responding to white swords on camps. With no WPs, the number of camps you can cover is severely limited. Who wants to log in to not play the game?

Johje Holan.4607:

Paavotar.3971:

Interesting changes with the waypoints. I think I might like this.

Would be cool to see all maps tri-colored.

Sich.7103:

With this you can be sure to loose your 2 keep at each prime ! It’s just impossible to hold 2 ennemies blob with no WP in your keep and with ennemy TP just near your keep….
The last MU our team keep hills for 5 days long !

Manvaeris.9857:

The situation now is, there can be really long sieges in the outer keeps, which is great in my opinion. The time you need for running is pretty equal for both teams (e.g. SW-spawn to hills for the invaders, mid-keep to hills for the defenders). Tactics are very important here.

As you say, the invaders will have the advantage for “their” outer garri. That is the reason I worry that the homeland defenders won’t be able to hold the outer keeps for a long time. The invaders just need to block the mid-keep-waypoint and the chances to hold the outer keep are pretty low for the defenders.

I agree with Paavotar on this. I think it would be great to see more tri-colored Home BL.

The most boring thing in the world is to log in and see all three BL the home team’s color. Because that means nobody’s fighting. Sometimes when I log in and see that I just log right off again.

It will be good for the Home BL to lose their side keeps during prime. Holding Hills for almost the entire matchup is is not good for the game I don’t think.

Unfortunately the mentality has developed that the entire Home BL must be secured before going to the enemy BL’s (at least on the non-top tiers). This leads to more PvD, more K-training and less fights.

Each map is set up in thirds. The side keeps in the BL are not the home teams keeps. They were designed to be the attacking enemies keeps. That way the fighting will stay fresh.

Huh, on my server this is nearly never the case.

Hule.8794:

Dear players,
we were looking how you play our game and we found out you play it wrong. What we seen were big and small fights. Players sieged structure and defended it. Players escorting dolyaks, killing sentries. Flipping of camps is one of favourites way how to spend time.
We said NO.
We dont want you to play your way. So we are making a lot of changes so you can return to play our way: running simulator.

i think players made the running simulator and anet is saying this is not a running simulator, i get the impression Anet is giving more “responsible side effect” for the guild that claims a keep, i like the changes altough with the actual system sometimes is hard to know wich guild claimed the keep and only see a strange banner.

KittyCatMeow.5764:

I’m little confused at 7:24 time shows blue owning garri on enemy red map but has a wp garri and has sw tower wp ??
http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/b/642258148

aww look at all those nice pve things they added to our pvp wvw area. oh and look we can do jumping puzzles now too and cap shrines yay. eotm 2….awesome for the new pve karmatrain woohoo when u die u wont be able to go to your guild as u have to a slve jumping puzzle nr1 and b kill 15 pve mobs and then maybe go collect some awesome pve stuff so the pve karmatrain can do this awesome pve event they put into wvw.

seriously anet after u realeased eotm u knew that all core wvw players hated the map. it is too complex and has way too much pve and no player control and then it gives too much pve rewards… eotm is a joke for us we laugh at the map we troll the pve players. and now u bring out a map that is absolutely pve based and not wvw battle based…gg wvw bye bye wvw community. hello stupid 111 spamming pve karma trains . bye bye good awesome wvw fights, bye bye gvg bye bye zergbusting wvw is now a pve map!

I think the problem is not the wp but the too long sieges and the 20 ac on walls

borgs.6103:

I’ve got a valid question:
Are these changes the fruit from the ideas of the WvW CDI months ago?

i dont think so. soo many ideas were thrown out there and some were amazing ideas. i think anet doesnt really understand the core of wvw still. look at the new map its worse than eotm….its a giant jumping puzzle pve map instead of a battle ground map that gives wvw players a lot of room to use different strategies.
the way points are just like eotm. and u know its horrible if u die once in eotm it takes u aaaaages to get back to your guild and u will get lost cause the map is too complex.

old system=players control and dominate maps
new system=ai and map dominates over wvw

Well they definitely made attacking easier. Is this really a change that players were screaming for though?

Who, if anyone, are they listening to when it comes to changes?