Guild Wars 2

Jorjeis.2169:

Why is it when North Americans take capture points it’s down to their skill but it’s absolutely impossible for the same to be true for Oceania and SEA? There’s any number of screenshots been posted that show our opposition don’t have the outmanned buff, and just because there’s no queue doesn’t mean the BL isn’t close to capacity.

I also think the point Marstar was making that you have completely missed is that when we get pushed we don’t give up and leave the map. We keep fighting. When the ET/SBI Oceanics got pushed they appeared to give up and stop fighting which is why you keep waking up to a sea of green.

The question of skill is not a regional bias, it’s just a matter of actuality. If the Oceanics are taking keeps with a 5-1 advantage then that’s pretty easy to do. There’s not a lot of tactics for there’s not a great need for tactics. If NA players are fighting heavy resistance vs other NA players then yes more skill is involved. If a NA server was matched up against two Oceanic servers and zerged empty keeps during the day then it wouldn’t be a case of skill.

It’s not that hard to understand.

Also, SBI didn’t just give up in that fight last week. They went to school and work, and when they came back their work had been pretty much erased. This wasn’t a total surprise. Due to the release of queue time figures by ANet, many had surmised this would happen. TA people were even boasting it could happen and it did in fact happen.

At that point, it became clear that any work done during the day would simply vanish at night. The servers other than HoD couldn’t cover 24/7. Thus, the fight was mostly futile. HoD doesn’t give up because they have never been in that situation. TA knows they have 24/7 coverage, so if they fight hard on the weekend it won’t be erased during the weekdays. HoD doesn’t understand the situation or problem because they haven’t been in it.

etiolate.9185:

The question of skill is not a regional bias, it’s just a matter of actuality. If the Oceanics are taking keeps with a 5-1 advantage then that’s pretty easy to do. There’s not a lot of tactics for there’s not a great need for tactics. If NA players are fighting heavy resistance vs other NA players then yes more skill is involved. If a NA server was matched up against two Oceanic servers and zerged empty keeps during the day then it wouldn’t be a case of skill.

It’s not that hard to understand.

Also, SBI didn’t just give up in that fight last week. They went to school and work, and when they came back their work had been pretty much erased. This wasn’t a total surprise. Due to the release of queue time figures by ANet, many had surmised this would happen. TA people were even boasting it could happen and it did in fact happen.

At that point, it became clear that any work done during the day would simply vanish at night. The servers other than HoD couldn’t cover 24/7. Thus, the fight was mostly futile. HoD doesn’t give up because they have never been in that situation. TA knows they have 24/7 coverage, so if they fight hard on the weekend it won’t be erased during the weekdays. HoD doesn’t understand the situation or problem because they haven’t been in it.

Once again you’re missing the point. It’s not a 5v1. SBI has Oceanics and SEA guilds, as did ET in the last matchup, but they gave up when they were pressured in their primetime. Just because you as a NA player are not personally there does not automatically mean you have no presence.

Hix.8925:

lollie.5816:

Hix.8925:

Also think it’s funny that the same people arguing that NA servers should just recruit more Oceanics also say that Oceanics can’t be put in their own 3 server group cause there aren’t enough Oceanic players to spread around 3 servers.

You realise you also have nightshift workers and etc to bolster up the “NA nightcrew”? Half if not more of Oceanics would likely play on the NA servers voluntarily, just to be around more people. That would leave a three server group pretty much dead (really doubt we’d have three full servers, there’d not be enough for decent sized DEs also across 3 servers).

Well lets do the math here. Half the Oceanics could not fill 3 servers, according to you. Lets assume that half the Oceanics could fill 3 servers. Then that means all the Oceanics could fill 6 servers.

That’s still not enough Oceanics for the “go recruit” option to be a real solution.

It is a real solution, because the matchups will change. Give ANet one or two more weeks, and the servers with Oceanic crews will be facing servers with Oceanic crews. You might not be in the top bracket anymore, but you’ll be facing off against a server with a similar set of capabilities.

I don’t know if the devs actually care to read this thread or if it goes to /dev/null, however, here’s my 2 cents:

1) Optionally, servers could be matched against each other depending on their statistical time zone activity. Eg servers that have very incomparable activities should not be matched against each other. This should certainly lower the severeness of unbalance quite a bit. However, the actual “fine” solution I want to suggest is in 2) and 3) below:

2) The amount of points that is ticking up while holding keeps and stuff in WvW should depend on the ratio of players online in each battleground at that time.
If for example one realm has 50 players fielded and the other realms has only 10 players, then the point gain the stronger realm gets over time would only be very small compared to the point gain if all three realms field equal amounts of players.
This, however, does still not solve fortified/upgraded keeps yet. See 3) below.

3) For each fortification or upgrade completed by a realm that fields much more players while other realms are at that time fielding much less players, the less populated realms will get a damage buff stored that wears off by destroying keep doors/beating key NPCs (keeplords and maybe supervisors/veteran soldiers too).
Example: Realm A fields 50 players while realm B and C field 10. Now if realm A upgrades one position, the other realms will get a +damage buff that will wear off after they destroyed two keep doors/walls and 10 NPC guardians (it counts the doors/walls and the npcs separately). The exact count the buffs adds to “door/wall” and “npc” counters are subject to fine-tuning of course. Optionally, this buff could also be given for deployed siege weaponry (might or might not be cool, and it could in turn become a damage buff for own siege weaponry of the less populated realm instead).
This way, if a realm wakes up and finds all the taken keeps fortified, they will have an easier time to break that “unfairly done” fortifications, until their buff has worn off.

Dear Anet,

The problem about Nightcapping is not their mechanism. The problem occurred when:-
1) There are arranged alliance which arranged all the Night time guilds (oceanic/EU) into the server. (E.g. Henge of Denravi)
2) There are quite different in populations between the 3 server.

People dont have much fun start from scratch when they wake up and found out that all their hardearned fight keeps were gone because it’s a night of their time. I knew it is not your idea to limit the time of WvWvW judging from what you written but at least sort this out in some way.

What you can do
-Region locked : Guild will be prompt to lock their region and will unable to move from the region. This way EU/Oceanic guilds will have to think twice if they will want to stay in US serv. This will truely make it region based and will also help fixing all ppl latency to match the nearest server, solved all the night capping thing. (Please allow guilds to retain their upgrades while moving also)

-Time locked WvWvW: You aint suppose to be that strong when it’s suppose to be your night time. (But i think you are against this anyway)

-Fix the scoring, Night time suppose to have less score than Prime time. I’m sure it aint suppose to be equal. You surely cant guarantee there will be 24/7 coverage. Somehow, there must be “night time” and “prime time” slot. Scoring has to reflex that.

-Fix (BUFF) outmanned buff: Somehow u gotta find some buff that make 1 man equal to 5 man. In the event of a night cap, the population difference can up 5 times. With the given and current outmanned buff, it’s just make no difference. However if u fix it up to the point where u just need 1 man to kill 5 man, then that’s too much, u gotta give credit for the server that has high population also.

Tajz.9826:

Dear Anet,

The problem about Nightcapping is not their mechanism. The problem occurred when:-
1) There are arranged alliance which arranged all the Night time guilds (oceanic/EU) into the server. (E.g. Henge of Denravi)
2) There are quite different in populations between the 3 server.

People dont have much fun start from scratch when they wake up and found out that all their hardearned fight keeps were gone because it’s a night of their time. I knew it is not your idea to limit the time of WvWvW judging from what you written but at least sort this out in some way.

What you can do
-Region locked : Guild will be prompt to lock their region and will unable to move from the region. This way EU/Oceanic guilds will have to think twice if they will want to stay in US serv. This will truely make it region based and will also help fixing all ppl latency to match the nearest server, solved all the night capping thing. (Please allow guilds to retain their upgrades while moving also)

-Time locked WvWvW: You aint suppose to be that strong when it’s suppose to be your night time. (But i think you are against this anyway)

-Fix the scoring, Night time suppose to have less score than Prime time. I’m sure it aint suppose to be equal. You surely cant guarantee there will be 24/7 coverage. Somehow, there must be “night time” and “prime time” slot. Scoring has to reflex that.

-Fix (BUFF) outmanned buff: Somehow u gotta find some buff that make 1 man equal to 5 man. In the event of a night cap, the population difference can up 5 times. With the given and current outmanned buff, it’s just make no difference. However if u fix it up to the point where u just need 1 man to kill 5 man, then that’s too much, u gotta give credit for the server that has high population also.

This just proves the NA player base believe they’re the center of the world, push the Oceanic player base off onto their own server? night time/prime time? Sorry, but in a few hours it’s going to be MY prime time and time locked? Lol, how about we just shut off WvWvW for 12 hours of the day, will that help you? Or will the NA players who actually play at that time get mad?

Think of a solution before you completely isolate the oceanic player base who was isolated from the start. Where do you expect us to go anyway?

the best way to fix this, is by giving people two things.

First of all give people a reason to defend keeps !! even at night people don’t bother. ( let the building events, defence events, give people something to do ina tower / keep to get exp so they can defend. ( give them a lower reward ofc )

second, at night it would be good that the night shift steps in where overlooks cannot be capped. everything els can. that way every server keeps having atleast one keep when they login in the morning.
i think that servers get high scores because the night nurses cap all the borderlands aswell.
I know your policy , but why not close of the borderlands at night and just leave the eternal BG active until somewhere in the morning.

while i’m asking anyway, pls make zerging less common by giving people info about how the score works, because atm we got alot of brainless zergs going on :P

Have a separate weekend server bracket and weekday server bracket. The weekends are clearly the most fun and the most competitive. Most gamers can go 3 days without any sleep Smaller guilds will be able to commit the time and resources on the weekends.

Lets face it, there aren’t many servers with the population to man WvW 24/7 for a week or two. For the rest of the servers, it is to much to ask. The problem is getting worse and worse as more people flock to those servers and others just quit out of frustration.

Anet, you spent way to much time making this game to have it ruined by this issue. Do and announce something.

Honestly, the outmanned buff is a step in the right direction, but the reality is that it kicks in too late, doesn’t scale, and doesn’t effect results.

Instead of just turning on at the extremes, it should start at a point and gradually scale up as they get more outmanned. I was playing on a map where we were on the line for getting the buff, and it was incredibly frustrating. I would much rather have had a consistant buff at 50% while I was pretty much equally outgunned one moment as the next.

The other problem is how it works. If you are trying to promote more players to enter, the PvEers have no way of knowing without trying to get into WvW. As soon as they do, the buff goes away, too. The buff should honestly bump combat stats instead, capping at no more value than an orb. If you don’t think 3-orbs can be impossible to overcome, then 1 orb for an outmanned team shouldn’t be bad either.

I’ll expand on previous post (edit button disappeared again) -

Maybe they could have two ruleset groups for the matchups – dividing servers into one of the two rulesets: one 24/7 and one sleepyzone (NA only); then give free transfers to the ruleset group of choice, with guilds retaining their influence upon transfer.

The 24/7 groupings would have the ruleset same as they currently are – WvW is open all hours, pve buff on at all hours; the second grouping (NA sleepytime) NA hours only (WvW light) groupings is 12 hours a day NA timezone – WvW closes at 12 midnight EST time, and on this server ruleset the pve buff also stops at this hour. The whole server turns into a pumpkin after midnight. Anyone inside WvW at the closing time gets booted and nobody else can get in. WvW becomes a no-go area after midnight EST (or whatever timezone is used by the NA people as a whole). NA people sleep easy knowing the whole server is as they left it before lockup. Pve buff drops off on these servers as nobody is playing after these hours anyway, this last thing also providing incentive for people to join the 24/7 servers if they tend to be logged on after WvW has closed shop for the night on that server ruleset and still like to do pve things…(maybe these people will later end up joining 24/7 WvW, so they too should be on a 24/7 server ruleset).

That would solve “the problem” for the “NA servers are for NA people only” people, while still providing incentive to play on 24/7 servers.

You should consider implementing a system where the amount of earned points depends on the number of players on the map.

Currently, 5% of the players who play at night earn 95% of the points of a match.

Matt and Jon,

it is 11PM US West cost time and I’m standing here in the Anvil Rock spawn point in the Eternal Battlegrounds. Looking at the map I see that the Northern Shiverpeaks server owns all supply camps, towers and keeps on all battlegrounds except 1 tower and supply camp that is bravely held by Borlis Pass and 1 supply camp that is still in our hand – at least for the next 10 seconds when the 30 man NSP zerg will steamroll this place on its way out from the tower that they just took from us.

I’m not alone here at the AR spawn point, though. I’m joined by 12 other battle hardened players who are currently weighting their two options:

1) log off.

2) serve as free sources of loot and badges for the overwhelming NSP forces.

What adds insult to injury in this case is that this is an exact repetition of what happened last week where we were also matched up against NSP. How comes that the score that was computed by the match making system did not reflect the fact that NSP was constantly owning 90% of all maps over the week versus the 10% that we and the other server held?

I hear what you both said and it leaves me with the impression that you do not take the problem seriously. The terms “night capping” and “day capping” are an oversimplification of what is happening in the game . The problem is that the existing match making system does not take the distribution of the player population over a day into account when matching up servers. Consequently servers are matched up with widely different amounts of players which then leads to the effect that one or two sides get overwhelmed by the other side.

This unhealthy mismatch in the population between servers leads to further problems: demoralization of the server(s) that gets stomped into the ground in mere hours and it allows the server with the much larger population to invest into all tower, keep and supply camp upgrades which can be finished in quick order because the underpopulated side does not have enough manpower to sabotage or prevent successful upgrades in more than a small handful places.

The next day, when the population of the smaller server reaches its peak, it can only take on a small number of objectives before the population peak passes because taking out a fortified tower or keep, especially if up to a dozen arrow carts and other defensive sieges have been placed on the walls and inside the court yard is a very time consuming task.

Because of all this the match is effectively decided in the first 24 to 48 hours and it leaves the losing servers with nothing much to do for the rest of the match up.

What is also not understandable is that on one side a design goal was that WvW should be a 24/7 format. But then on the other side it has been implemented in the context of a multi-server architecture where servers are put against each other. The problem here is that the implementation is not suitable for the idea. A 24/7 battleground really needs a single server architecture where guilds and alliances fight against each other. This setup gives the necessary flexibility to easily adjust the balance of power as the fight rages on and it also ensures that every side has the same chances at filling their ranks with soldiers for all time ranges. A multi-server architecture on the other side is too restrictive for a 24/7 PvP format.

Speaking of multiple servers and adjusting the populations on them: while I do agree with the idea that players should be able to move from server to server for free in the early days of the game to better distribute the player base, I absolutely disagree with the idea of allowing someone who has just moved from server A to server B to immediately rejoin WvW on server B. Transferring from one server to another one absolutely must lock this person out from WvW as long as the current match up is still active. By allowing players to immediately rejoin WvW you have effectively opened the gates and actually invited players to misuse this services to tamper with WvW matches.

Another point that I do not agree with is the idea of hiding the names of the players of the opposing faction. Since fights in PvP can get heated from time to time it is vitally important for the quality of a game to ensure that players can be held responsible for their actions on the virtual battlefield. By not showing the names you allow players with questionable motives and with a laissez-faire attitude towards cheating and hacking to hide behind a veil of anonymity. The reporting function that is available is only useful if you manage to target the player that you think is hacking which is a problem.

It is now 12PM and I think I will log off from the game and skip the rest of this WvW week because this match has already been decided and I rather spend my free time on something where I have the impression that my actions actually make a difference.

I think Marstar made a good point, it’s a 176 hour match.
Some have the population or extreme organization to sustain this, some don’t, fair enough.
Bur what i see as a trend in this post is people pulling numbers out of thin air stating 100 vs 10, 5% earn 95% blablah.

Only anet knows exactly how much player there is at any given time on the field, and another very important number imo would be to know the ratio of the pve population of a server actually queuing in WvW, which could tell if there is really imbalance problem in the ranking system as to which server is opposed to which, or that simply some server have a more WvW oriented population than others.

My guess is that it’s probably a mix of both right know, but my point is that only anet knows this exactly, so it’s in their hands to fix it according to those numbers, not to player to elevate guesses into facts and start building theories on it.

Even as a player on the winning side on VS, I think night-capping everything in three hours and thus undoing everything that was done in a day is a problem. Especially when orbs are so powerful. Now I’m not sure the solution is about restricting gameplay for those who play at night, but they should face some kind of opposition. A better out-manned buff for the losing side that’s one thing.

Somebody had a great idea, saying that a big dragon could attack wining side (castle with the orb for example) when they get a very big lead in score. The idea itself might not be something doable, but I find the good idea there, is events happening when your getting a high percentage of control of the map, or all three orbs for example. I think players ideas should go in this direction and be creative.

Wanting to alter score depending on population seems nice but it would create so many other problems. Matching up server from EU and NA would not solve the problem, it may be good for some servers, but it might be worst for others.

Server transfer is something that will be fixed in one way or another.

If you want a solution, you need to think big picture, focusing only on the time of the nightcap will only give you “bad fixes”, the kind that you reproach to A.Net later if they implements them. “Oh A.Net you killed the game, Vanilla WvW was better ….”

This whole thread makes me kind of ashamed to live in NA. Sorry so many of us are whining jerks, Oceanic players. Some people just can’t see past their own wants and desires.

Hopefully they’ll get over it soon enough….or stop playing WvWvW. I honestly don’t care which as I’d rather lower the queue times and play with people who value fun over winning.

“We feel that everyone should have the ability to contribute no matter what time of the day it is.”

Riddle me this then. If it should offer us the ability to contribute no matter what time, how are we supposed to contribute when our side is almost empty the other side has zergs to cap?

Fix your matching system. Introduce a parameter that checks online wvw activity and population of servers and match servers that have close indicators. Stop matching servers JUST based on score…even if it isn’t like that…right now it’s really the only thing visible by anyone.

Add to previos post: U know?! The “other side” as u call it..is not the only paying side. The guys who worked and wasted their time to cap the map are also paying customers. Try not to take just “1 side’s” defense. U need to be impartial. Take it another way…we cap at day and qq because of night…..they cap at night and qq about day. We are literally the same thing. There are no sides in this. Please atleast forward the suggestion i gave above about how to match properly.

But Night raiding is way easier and the relation btw. performance and reward is wrong at the moment.

Cloud.7613:

Think of a solution before you completely isolate the oceanic player base who was isolated from the start. Where do you expect us to go anyway?

You and your geographic compatriots have broken WvW by not splitting up evenly amongst the servers, so it’s hard for me to care where you go. There’s really no other way to put it. The only solution people and ArenaNet have given is to get a larger night crew (the servers are in NA and it gets dark here), and that’s a solution that’s up to you to implement. So please, help ArenaNet figure out how to compensate for the population imbalances you have created, balance your population, or stop playing. Your choice, but I hope you pick one of the first two.

We had queue metrics after week 1, where are the week 2 queue metrics?

I’m not sure if anyone has mentioned this (it’s a long thread :p), or offered a rebuttal to the idea…

Wouldn’t a scoring system based on what the population of your opponent server has work well?

So…if you outnumber them 2:1 you would get half the points, etc?

Even teams would accrue even points, and it would even out the point gains for the underpopulated team?

Not sure if that’d work but it seems to not punish overnight players as it’d be directly based on if they’re fighting players or gates/npcs.

Night capping isn’t the main issue.
Siege equipment disappearing during "maintenance/updates is.

Example:
Even HoD has stated in the past siege equiptment has been reasons they have left some of SBI’s towers before and attacked other servers.

Last week SBI was doing well, had tons of siege in everything, and was defending vs HoD even while outmanned.

An Update to the game came, all had to restart and update their clients. Everyone logged in, and all siege which was placed to defend towers was gone. (Nothing new since it happens every time.)

SBI didn’t have the numbers on to replace everything prior to HoD taking all the towers with the amount of people they had online.

So it’s not so much about night capping, as it is siege being removed during game updates, int he middle of the night for NA players.

WvWvW Buffs

I was thinking about play in wvwvw and the steep prefomance/stat buff for wvw and ways to soften the blow of not having a night/morning crew.

1.Make PvE objectives in wvwvw the only means to gain a large amounts of exp for wvwvw buffs
2.Add one grand wvwvw boss spawn once a day or every few days at random time on each borderland that would grant a large amount of wvwvw buff exp and drop a orb of power(see Orbs of power)
3.Remove the robust buff in exchange for somthing like build/repair speed or efficiency

I believe these steps will allow pvers to have fun in wvwvw and really help there server at the same time.

Sieges
The most important thing in my mind is the way sieges work. Most of the time you just run in and sack a tower or keep with lil resistance. Here are some suggestions.

1. Health of gates, walls, doylaks, lords. guards, and siege raised
2.raise the number and speed of doylaks from supply camps
3.lower the effect of wall repair and posably amount of supply carried by doylaks
4. I would like to see wall siege blueprint that could be placed in door ways of oppisition towers/keeps/garrisons so that you could slow a third faction from back dooring you while trying to take a keep but cutting of your own reinforcments in the process.

Edit 4a. it would be nice if these walls would also prevent the ability to repair the door untill destroyed

With these changes it will leave time for reaction and make sieges a real cost. With this no full map would likly be taken as even a supply camp would take some effort to take. Matches would be won by a tower or two and lower the desperation from night capping since a small force would be able to hold there area within reason. It would also make 3 faction sieges required to take somthing in many cases.

Orbs of power
1.Orbs buffs raised but taken from the world boss once a day or every few days
2 Orbs of power runs out in a hour or two then buff is lost destroying that alter
3. Power- Power is the time rate at which work is done or energy is transferred. In calculus terms, power is the derivative of work with respect to time.

This would allow a chance for rampage/zerg play with the siege changes and not kill the other teams morale knowing that they might be able to get a few orbs tomarrow for a game changer.

My hopes are that the synergy of these changes will make the game more enjoyable for everyone. Allow guilds to hold towers and keeps they claim along with making it a more strategic play style. Thank you for your time I hope you have enjoyed this thread.

Alliances
This would be a machanic in which one server would be able to contract another for a siege on a supply camp,tower, keep or garrison. For a large sum of gold one faction would be able to create a quest objective ring at a selected supply camp keep or garison. Ranging from 5g-25g and should the a faction siege and take said tower within lets say an hour then they would be awarded a large sum of gold lets say they split the other factions cost evenly.

1. The rings would be seen only by the contracted faction
2. The high cost should limit use
3.It would have no nagative effect on the market since the payout would be equal or less than payed in.
4.It would make it a more stratigic game and seems like it could be done a little cost.

Was it fun? Yes/No

of course that fastest and easiest way to fix these issues is to lower wvwvw cap if you can’t get into wvw you will switch servers thats both day time and night time.

etiolate.9185:

If the Oceanics are taking keeps with a 5-1 advantage then that’s pretty easy to do.

If …… is an assumption.

There is no 5:1 advantage. SBI and ET have an equal ability to field 166 per map on every map in Oceanic and SEA prime.

The top tier does not have the same night capping problem of the SoS tier. In that tier there is are mirror population disparity between the timezones.

SBI and ET stopped queuing when they started to lose. This is THE issue for the top tier.

Marstar.7162:

etiolate.9185:

If the Oceanics are taking keeps with a 5-1 advantage then that’s pretty easy to do.

If …… is an assumption.

There is no 5:1 advantage. SBI and ET have an equal ability to field 166 per map on every map in Oceanic and SEA prime.

The top tier does not have the same night capping problem of the SoS tier. In that tier there is are mirror population disparity between the timezones.

SBI and ET stopped queuing when they started to lose. This is THE issue for the top tier.

Incorrect, on SBI.
Even when we were not losing, we still had a small gap where the Queue was little to none.

Somthing else I thot could be a good idea is two brackets and ranks one for weekends and the other for weekdays that way those of us with jobs can win wars and the organized teams that exploit and metagame can do there thing durring the week.

Metagaming is a broad term usually used to define any strategy, action or method used in a game which transcends a prescribed ruleset, uses external factors to affect the game, or goes beyond the supposed limits or environment set by the game. Another definition refers to the game universe outside of the game itself.

I have to work I don’t have time to make kissy face at some assie or asian guild to be able to win I just want to be able to play. You can not make metagame a requirment to win in the game so it is somthing that must be fixed.

These large organizations that are doing this are the problem TA among others that take pride in exploitation (in this instance I am not talking about just the ingame exploits anyone has used)and there is nothing to gain from it (notch on your website we exploited the crap out of her all night long). There missuse is killing the fun of the game for everyone there night crews get no real battles and we lose everything cause we are asleep and at work for 14-16 hours a day.

ex·ploi·ta·tion (ksploi-tshn)
n.
1. The act of employing to the greatest possible advantage: exploitation of copper deposits.
2. Utilization of another person or group for selfish purposes: exploitation of unwary consumers.
3. An advertising or a publicity program.

Its not about winning or loseing so much I think we all agree we have much more fun on weekends when there is coverage cause we dont have to work and everyone gets a fight.

Marstar.7162:

etiolate.9185:

If the Oceanics are taking keeps with a 5-1 advantage then that’s pretty easy to do.

If …… is an assumption.

There is no 5:1 advantage. SBI and ET have an equal ability to field 166 per map on every map in Oceanic and SEA prime.

The top tier does not have the same night capping problem of the SoS tier. In that tier there is are mirror population disparity between the timezones.

SBI and ET stopped queuing when they started to lose. This is THE issue for the top tier.

Your statment is backwards what you have seen here is cause by the work week
SBI and ET started to lose when they stopped queing

Thesilentflute.8761:

of course that fastest and easiest way to fix these issues is to lower wvwvw cap if you can’t get into wvw you will switch servers thats both day time and night time.

What? There’s no possible way we’re going to split our 100+ members guild nor our few hundred people strong alliance to make what Anet devs can’t and transfer to even out servers. It’s their job to fix it, not ours. Otherwise we’re to be payed, not them.

Well if they did lower the caps they would be fixing it. You would not be have to do anything with your guild or alliance … literally.

Altered Scoring system that is fair for all

.
.

Structures that have been in enemy hands a certain amount of time need to give instant point bonus to the next server that captures it.

.
.

My Recommendation is that if a structure has been held for at least 6 hours then it will grant the following bonus points immediately to the next server that captures it:
250 (supply)
500 (tower)
1000 (keep)
2000 (stonemist)

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Example:
Primetime is 4PM EST – 12AM EST (8 Hours)
Non-Primetime is 16 Hours

When the night crews start to take over the map, most structures will only have been held by enemy teams for 2-3 hours, some less, some more. In most cases the Night Crews will reclaim structures prior to them being in enemy hands for 6+ hours. The Night Crews will miss out on any bonus points unless they decided to wait before re-capping, which is unlikely to happen.

If by some reason the Night Crews did wait it out, it would give the enemy servers those extra few hours of PPT, which only helps the primetime hours.

Assume the Night Crews have taken over the Maps by 4 AM EST.
Primetime doesn’t begin for another 12 Hours.

In those 12 Hours, If the ENTIRE map is controlled by 1 server, that server would gain 2,780 points per hour or 33,360 points from PPT.

There will be 32,000 bonus points up for grabs once all structures have been held for at least 6 hours.

So if a server like HoD takes an entire map like they usually do, the other servers could each gain back ~11k points by each reclaiming only 1/3rd of the structures in WvW, or could each gain ~16k points by each reclaiming 1/2 the structures in WvW (This requires wiping HoD completely off the map though, which is unlikely).

So While HoD would gain 33k points in the 12 hours of population dominance, at least the other servers could get a ~10-15k infusion that would help keep things close.

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PROS:

Night Crews are still necessary and valid: This system does not totally negate the Night Crews work, which is necessary. We can’t just eliminate that aspect of WvW.

More activity all week long. Knowing there are Bonus Points up for grabs could keep players interested much longer throughout the week. Just reclaiming Stone Mist with bonus points would be the equivalent of holding Stone Mist for over 14 hours straight.

Lessens the Snowballing. Instead of waking up to a server ~30k points ahead, with the bonus points that advantage could be shaved down to ~20k points.

It does not benefit Night Crews. The Night Crews could theoretically wait out on capping and then take advantage of the bonus points themselves, but the primetime players will always have a 100% chance of getting bonus points which would negate the Night Crews waiting it out. And by waiting it out the Night Crews are giving at least 12-20 more ticks away to their enemies.

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Addenda:
To augment the initial idea, I would also suggest that after 6 hours all structures gain bonus points that increase every hour. For example:

250 + 15 each additional hour (supply)
500 + 25 each additional hour (tower)
1000 + 50 each additional hour (keep)
2000 + 100 each additional hour (stonemist)

If Stonemist was held by 1 server for 6 hours, it would grant 2000 bonus points.
If Stonemist was held by 1 server for 12 hours, it would grant 2600 bonus points.

If a Keep was held by 1 server for 6 hours, it would grant 1000 bonus points.
If a Keep was held by 1 server for 12 hours, it would grant 1300 bonus points.

If a Tower was held by 1 server for 6 hours, it would grant 500 bonus points.
If a Tower was held by 1 server for 12 hours, it would grant 650 bonus points.

If a Supply Camp was held by 1 server for 6 hours, it would grant 250 bonus points.
If a Supply Camp was held by 1 server for 12 hours, it would grant 340 bonus points.

There will be 32,000 bonus points up for grabs once all structures have been held for at least 6 hours.

There will be 41,960 bonus points up for grabs once all structures have been held for at least 12 hours.

In those 12 Hours the controlling server gains 33,360 points from PPT.

If during Primetime the other 2 servers reclaim 33% of the maps, each server will gain 13,986 bonus points. Now the dominate Night Crew server only gains a 19k point advantage from their Night Crew instead of a 30k+ advantage.

it’s just sad some puny guild would try to grab all the credit for themselves, with only less than 30 people from the entire alliance able to made into the game at the time, while what really got the job done was another controversy – mesmer portal golem army….

all that analysis based on some made up bs, wow, just wow….

Thesilentflute.8761:

Well if they did lower the caps they would be fixing it. You would not be have to do anything with your guild or alliance … literally.

Umm no, making it more difficult to enter WvW is not fixing it. It’s making it more broken then it is now. EB actually needs more people because nothing ever changes there except the castle having different owners all the time. Unfortunatelly their badly designed engine and culling mechanism makes it impossible.

When we post somthing everyone should think about the cost to implement it.

Even in my post some of the stuff is not likely to happen but the most important things would cost anet very little and benifit us as players alot.

I see good ideas every day …good in theory.

This thread reached to almost 500 replies. I believe this is a good indication there is a problem, and it’s not a light one.

Has anyone looked at the point-tally interval? Every 15 mins seemed right for a 24H match but how does it impact a 7-day match? Scaling it proportionally would increment points every 1 hour, 45 minutes; what impact would 1- or 2-hour intervals have?

My impression is that whoever takes the initiative right after the reset trounces the other two opponents for the duration; increasing the interval may lessen the lopsidedness without adding complexity or punitive game mechanics.

I think there has been plenty of good suggestions on how to fix the problem on this thread.
It’s time now for A-Net to show some more interest and let us to know if they are going to do something quite soon on this matter, or I suppose they will lose customers week after week with the current system. I know the game in the current state is plenty on other issues that need to be solved but this one is good one.
I would also suggest to close the 1 week match up at the moment and going back to the 1 day match up during the week (with only 3 days match up from friday to sunday) till they come with a good fix.

I agree with Kolly. Nearly everything has been said, in a way or another. Now, it’s up to Anet to fix to WvW.

Icey your solution is actually quite creative, and I could see something working using your raw idea, the metrics would probably need to be tuned but it does sounds right.

There is no real way to change the point system in a way that would fair to asians and assies and still fix the issue. The best idea that I have seen about it was pop. based on page 4 i think but the cost of implementation seems to me very high.

A fluid cap would be a good idea but will all the bots can not really be done.

I firmly believe that it can only be fixed fairly through combat mechanics.

@Thesilentflute why not? Based on server logs u know how to estimate which server plays more at night and which plays more in the day (based on server time). You can also determine the average active WvW population + an error margin. Aren’t these 2 extra parameters enough? The dynamic system check thing already exists for the regular score and the matchup based on that score. U just need to tell it to matchup based on 2 other factors. It can be done..u just need to want to do it. It implies what extra costs?..besides the regular employee cost.

I am not saying it’s easy……what i am saying..is it’s not as impossible as ppl want to make it seem (or as costly). Compared to some of the solutions given here, mine just represent 2 global filters….i mean come on………………

HoD and Titan Alliance gamed the system by their own admission is recruiting all the Oceanics/SEA to their server and now ANET is siding with them to maintain the status quo. A self-regulating balancing system will never work because the hardcore nerd crowd prefers winning to balanced matches. After all, what else do they have in their lives?

I think I will stick to structured instead of wasting my time in WvW. Maybe they will fix it when they see they have created a numbers game.

The server pops are fluid so if you tried to use that info it would always be incorrect and exploitable. The extra cost would be building and testing. It is not like they have an empty plate.

Rebound.3409:

It can be done..u just need to want to do it. It implies what extra costs?..besides the regular employee cost.

The real cost in software development is time. They have to prioritize improvements/fix and finish them one by one. Some stuff can be handled simultaneously but not all. Currently their WvW team working on many problems, this is not the only thing. Bots, hacks, performance issues, optimization, culling etc..

These are all reasonable. IMO if someone at ANet with some kitten would stand up and say: “Ok we accept there is a problem, and in time we’re going to make some improvements addressing this. However it will take time, just be patient please.” More than half of us would shut up and continue to play, focusing on the fun we have.

However when ANet Employees, Game Designer saying: “This is a 7/24 game, it’s working as intended” or “It’s up to our players to solve the issue by balancing population” it’s very natural we start to ask ourselves “Ok so it’s up to us to make a difference, but what we can do”?

I made a few posts about the situation of EU competition and my 100+ guild, and made my points why we couldn’t find any option, whatever we tried so. If you’re interested on those you can find long descriptions on my previous posts.

However it’s certain that current “unhappiness” is not something player base can fix by themselves. Of course there is a happy part of the community, which is using current system to their advantage. If I were in place of them I’d do the same, I confess. On the other hand, unhappy part of the community will have to leave WvW in time as they inevitably feel that game is not balanced and not fun.

And please don’t say “Go to sPvP if you want balance” as sPvP can not be substituted with WvW. It’s just saying like “Go play Chess if you find this rule in Football is unfair”. PvPers like and enjoy balance and they leave games which don’t provide it. Currently “ninja-sleep-capping” is a not balanced part of this game. I don’t say it’s not fair, I say it’s not balanced.

Consider it like this. Lets say Rangers have 1 elite skill which kills everyone in 15 m radius circle with one shot with a cooldown of 30 seconds. Now one can say “Go play ranger if you think it’s not fair”. I say “It’s fair but it’s not balanced and thus it’s not fun”. If it becomes “Whoever bring more rangers win the game” that game is not balanced and soon many players leave it.

ninja-sleep-capping is similar. It’s fair as everyone can do that. But it’s too powerful so it kills variety, sense of accomplishment, balance thus the competition within the game. When it turns to “Whoever brings more players on different time zones wins the game” we can not talk about competition, balance or fun.

I don’t want everyone in my guild to move to another game but this is gonna happen if you don’t somehow limit night capping , and is not just “my guild” case .
You are not giving the same opportunity to be part of the “war” to everyone , you are giving free wins to people playing at night ,and i imagine them to be way less then day-time players, and this discourages people to play WvW , to invest golds in upgrades , to enjoy this part of the game , try to realize it ASAP .

Mescaline.2743:

I don’t want everyone in my guild to move to another game but this is gonna happen if you don’t somehow limit night capping , and is not just “my guild” case .
You are not giving the same opportunity to be part of the “war” to everyone , you are giving free wins to people playing at night ,and i imagine them to be way less then day-time players, and this discourages people to play WvW , to invest golds in upgrades , to enjoy this part of the game , try to realize it ASAP .

So they should limit NA as well? Because, you know….you’re night capping us.

Hexicz.8450:

Mescaline.2743:

I don’t want everyone in my guild to move to another game but this is gonna happen if you don’t somehow limit night capping , and is not just “my guild” case .
You are not giving the same opportunity to be part of the “war” to everyone , you are giving free wins to people playing at night ,and i imagine them to be way less then day-time players, and this discourages people to play WvW , to invest golds in upgrades , to enjoy this part of the game , try to realize it ASAP .

So they should limit NA as well? Because, you know….you’re night capping us.

By all means, limit the scoring SOMEHOW regardless of timezone where resistance is minimal. Its not rocket science. I really wish the Oceanic/SEA folks would stop straw manning this thing for their own political purposes.

Yes, we get that this is the first time Aussies have had an impact on any Open world pvp environment in any game. We understand you don’t want to be made irrelevant. Keeping prime tim irrelevant is not the answer though. You are destroying the very game you love. Is that really what you guys want?

Well, speaking for Desolation and Augury rock now, sleep capping has ruined this week’s WvW on Day 1. Since then, the server transfer option only made it worse, because guilds can freely move to another server (in our case the winning Arborstone), and thus the losers only get more and more buried, I wouldn’t be surprised to see 0 players on Arborstone Borderlands sometime. Actually, as it is now, there are a total of 10 Desolation players facing an army of about 50 at our own tower next to our spawn, camped with siege tech. It demoralized people to the extent of leaving WvW altogether. If you don’t fix it, you lose about HALF of the endgame content you offer, and as sPvP has balance issues aswell, that will mean HALF your playerbase. I know that you don’t care much, as we paid in advance, no monthly fees to keep you fed, but then again, we’d expect some service for our money, rather than saying “Players have to fix this”. It’s just like as if the host or shipping company you buy or host servers from would say: “Oh, that server is broken, but we don’t care, you should fix it!” You can’t, we can’t either, do something about it.

They say they want it to be fair to everybody, but its not fair to servers with no Night time presence. We spend all day working hard to take and hold things. Then some server comes over night and just rolls over the whole map with no resistance.

Then we wake up and are getting spawn camped. It is utter bullkitten.

Roland Falantyr.3290:

Hexicz.8450:

Mescaline.2743:

I don’t want everyone in my guild to move to another game but this is gonna happen if you don’t somehow limit night capping , and is not just “my guild” case .
You are not giving the same opportunity to be part of the “war” to everyone , you are giving free wins to people playing at night ,and i imagine them to be way less then day-time players, and this discourages people to play WvW , to invest golds in upgrades , to enjoy this part of the game , try to realize it ASAP .

So they should limit NA as well? Because, you know….you’re night capping us.

By all means, limit the scoring SOMEHOW regardless of timezone where resistance is minimal. Its not rocket science. I really wish the Oceanic/SEA folks would stop straw manning this thing for their own political purposes.

Yes, we get that this is the first time Aussies have had an impact on any Open world pvp environment in any game. We understand you don’t want to be made irrelevant. Keeping prime tim irrelevant is not the answer though. You are destroying the very game you love. Is that really what you guys want?

I’m from Australia and I laughed reading this, so thank you. If it wasn’t us, you NA players would find something to trash on anyway, so I’m fine with it. Actually, I absolutely love it because the first actual MMO we’ve been treated with respect. I’m sorry you feel so upset that we’re ruining your game when in fact, Oceanic players have never complained about this.

Oceanic player: Sigh, everything was capped over night and I didn’t get to do anything about it. Oh well.
NA player: This isn’t fair, my servers losing, Arena net why you ruin my game? pls fix.

Oceanic players vs NA players during our prime time, it happens, every day. Is it easier? maybe. Is it a guarantee success? no. So instead of blaming everything on the Oceanic player base, who, fyi, paid the same as you. Find a way to make is fairer.