Guild Wars 2

People need to realize, there is no such thing as pure night capping. You’re playing on a server that anyone from all around the world could be playing on. Your perception of ‘night time”, IS their daytime. To others… you are the night cappers. Understand?

What i don’t understand is the fact that we have a US and an EU ladders . If the game is design to be play 24/7 then why don’t you make simple and create a World Ladder.

In that case, things will be clear and if localised servers want to go up in the ladder they have to recruit people around the world.

Having two Ladders make the wrong idea that there’re time zone to play in these servers.

( Sorry for my bad speaking :p )

Maybe because EU and US players have different view points about how to play the game and it may affect how we perform in game.

The two ladders have often different gameplays, look League of Legends for example, for long the gameplays were not the same.
And they became exactly similar when teams from EU won over teams from US during the international tournament.

Ashlinn.6094:

What i don’t understand is the fact that we have a US and an EU ladders . If the game is design to be play 24/7 then why don’t you make simple and create a World Ladder.

It is probably an issue of latency. If the servers were based in North America, then it would be pretty okay for anyone in Western Europe, the links between the two are pretty fast so it really doesn’t make a difference where the server is placed. As you go further east however, and especially into Russia, the connection will be going through many more links and the latency may be unbearable. On the other hand if people in Australia tied to play on a EU server then the latency would likely be equally unbearable.

I’d like to hear from someone in Australia or Russia who tried playing on the EU or NA servers. It is always possible that ANet planned for a worst case but that the latency in practice isn’t all that bad.

Knasher.5607:

I’d like to hear from someone in Australia or Russia who tried playing on the EU or NA servers. It is always possible that ANet planned for a worst case but that the latency in practice isn’t all that bad.

As a general rule from Australia, latency to US servers is ~200ms to ~400ms. Latency to EU servers is ~350ms to ~550ms.

There isn’t much ANet ca do to combat the physical distances that are involved, better routing can only go so far.

Voxel.6473:

People need to realize, there is no such thing as pure night capping. You’re playing on a server that anyone from all around the world could be playing on. Your perception of ‘night time”, IS their daytime. To others… you are the night cappers. Understand?

yes there was. The last couple of weeks that Henge stayed in tier1 was all from nightcapping.

I don’t care much about nightcapping but i care about this :

“We plan to RUIN your good time in Tier 1”

I m playing a game to have good time. What Anette is going to do about the statement above ?

Thanks for your kind answers.

Regards.

Possibly changing the out manned buff, to something that actually make since. Gold, Karma, & Experience doesn’t help me defend a keep.

Hrist.8972:

Anet have already said that no other players time is more valuable than anyone elses, so limiting points gained by time is not an option.

But at the same time they make the playing time of those people playing at non peak hours more valuable then of those that play on the prime time by letting the nightcrews gather up at some specific servers to roflstomp the WvW maps at night, while forcing the people who play at primetime to divide equaly among the servers if they don’t want an abyssimal WvW queue.
The statement by a-net is flawed in it’s essence and contradicts with what we have ingame.

Tito.3270:

Hrist.8972:

Anet have already said that no other players time is more valuable than anyone elses, so limiting points gained by time is not an option.

But at the same time they make the playing time of those people playing at non peak hours more valuable then of those that play on the prime time by letting the nightcrews gather up at some specific servers to roflstomp the WvW maps at night, while forcing the people who play at primetime to divide equaly among the servers if they don’t want an abyssimal WvW queue.
The statement by a-net is flawed in it’s essence and contradicts with what we have ingame.

I concur; I constructed a reasonable example on GW2Guru’s forums in which I proved the value of nightcappers is up to 9x that of a primetime player in terms of points gained for their server, if the nightcappers can take almost all of the map points (and it does happen, see link below for proof):

http://i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l520/astralphoenix777/ElDominationdelDiablos.jpg

As for A-Net’s responses, there are two possibilities. They either have no clue about how WvW actually works de facto, or they’re so obsessed with upholding their own creative vision for WvW that they’re blind to any other point of view, even one with an argument based on logic and reason. In either case, I believe the correct phrase to describe the situation is “ignoring the elephant in the room”. In the end the players will vote with their feet (and their wallets), and leave the game unless the issues are addressed.

Voxel.6473:

People need to realize, there is no such thing as pure night capping. You’re playing on a server that anyone from all around the world could be playing on. Your perception of ‘night time”, IS their daytime. To others… you are the night cappers. Understand?

The few servers with actually 24h capture coverage are full. And here starts the issue, in my opinion, Arenanet. Make the servers bigger. Now some lucky people – prime time players -(sorry but it’s simply the truth) joined the right server that soaked up the small Asian player base, to have night coverage.

Call me A QQ’er but I want serious wvw, and my current server is pure ‘casual pve’-player based. Way to few wvw. Wich means no fun. Of course Arenanet allows transfer, so me happy. Until I click transfer window. Half of the server are not for me because they are german/french. Then the other half is ‘full capacity’. Then the first ‘possible’ ones in the list, have barely higher wvw population, organisation, night capping strength, then the last in list. Basically, the people who now start focussing in wvw (I didn’t wanna rush that part of the gameplay until i had some PVE experience), are to late to the party, and must miss all the fun. Until new wvw projects are started on the smaller servers, quickly rising to full capacity/night capping availability, there is no way for me to get into the realm of everlasting excitment/battles of wvw.

I don’t mind night capping from EU ppl on EU server I mind night capping for EU ppl done by US ppl on EU server. They couldn’t fight with night capping on their servers so they came to EU to fight in their prime time and suddenly its not problem for them anymore. Not to mention the lags and invisible armies that are another problem that’s coming from them playing on EU servers….or Asians playing on US servers or EU players playing on US servers etc.

Welcome to WvW, where having one overseas guild is more valuable than having a dozen extra peak-hour guilds.

Just make it so that there is diminishing return in points for the amount you have captured. That would make that holding 50% of a map for most of the day more valuable than holding 100% for the night. That doesn’t discriminate between what timezone you play in, but does reward the server that can hold it’s ground the best at peak times when there is a fair matchup.

Simply put bring out 2 Canadian servers that should solve a lot of EU woes

Voxel.6473:

People need to realize, there is no such thing as pure night capping. You’re playing on a server that anyone from all around the world could be playing on. Your perception of ‘night time”, IS their daytime. To others… you are the night cappers. Understand?

Well the problem for us at Gandara at the moment is that we are against two French servers. While we have people during the day (EU server, so I’m going by the general European timezones) both of the French servers have a lot of people online 24/7, there are 40+ man zergs capping going on on 3-4 maps at the same time at 4+ AM.

I have a couple suggestions that might help some of these problems.

1. Make guild claiming have more of an impact on holds.
2. Allow guild claim transfers (If one guild goes to bed, they can pass it on to another guild without first losing it and retaking it.)

3. If a keep/hold is held for say 4 hours consecutively, give a timed hold bonus. Example. 4 hours of holding gives a 50% defense/npc increase for the following 4 hours. If the keep is held for that 4 hours, then they get a 25% defense and npc increase for the next 4 hours. The next 4 hours would be normal hours again.

Reasoning: This would mean that a guild could capture a hold, pass it off when going to bed to a semi active “night guild” who would then have a hold advantage thanks to the previous guild. This would mean servers that go inactive during certain periods would be more balanced for the few players who do choose to defend.

4. Make small keeps also have 2 entrances. Exiting the keep isn’t the only problem. If someone calls for reinforcements or supply, many times the entrance is camped, and effectively it becomes impossible to defend. The whole point of having a keep is that by being inside it is more easily defensible. This is negated by not being able to get inside in the first place.

Another Possiblity Make it a flexible queue. Each server can only have +/- 50 or 100 more players than any other server in the map. This would also create a more even distribution of players in the servers, and keep any server from being particularly WvW heavy and consistently winning matches. It would also encourage around the clock play on each server, since by switching servers you would be more likely to be able to get in without queue. Servers with low queues would get an influx of players from high queue servers who are looking to actually get into WvW. And by balancing out the amounts of people, it also balances the wins and losses, leading to more even matches across the board.

Just a few ideas Enjoy, and feel free to pick them apart.

PS on another note, please add gear repair to every keep, or remove armour damage in WvW!

Yup, to those who say “it’s not night capping,” yes, it is night capping – at least for people on US servers. The difference in time zones across the US just isn’t that large.

Why are EU folks even allowed to create characters on North American servers (or vice versa)?

Kagoshima Josh.5412:

Yup, to those who say “it’s not night capping,” yes, it is night capping – at least for people on US servers. The difference in time zones across the US just isn’t that large.

Why are EU folks even allowed to create characters on North American servers (or vice versa)?

Simply put there is nothing they can do about that anyone can join any server they wish the real problem is the crossover between the two and their respective time zones.
One way to alter this is place every server into one table do away with the points system other than to bring a 3 points for 1st place, 2 points for second and 1 point for 3rd.
The points go onto a yearly league table like other sports table eg: Football, Hockey ect.
The match ups are done that each server faces each other 4 times in that year and are presorted at the start of each year but not released for public viewing, so to players they will appear random.
So yes one week you may be against the 2 top servers or even the 2 bottom ones that’s just luck of the draw.
At the end of the year only the top server is awarded a prize say 10000 gems per server member that were members and are still members of that server at the start of the year, should they switch server in between they are not eligible for that prize also, this would create server loyalty as well as real rivalry between friendly servers that are switching players between one another just so that both their respective servers are near the top.

TBH at the moment being faced with 50 against 10 no matter what time it is is not fun to those on the receiving side and I’m sure others feel the same.
Night capping isn’t fun even for those who are doing the capping.
There is no challenge or risk, plus is anyone really learning anything by just running around in the follow the leader must get there or I’ll miss it.

ArenaNet bring us some fun into WvWvW, make gates and walls only damageable with siege, let AoE’s be exactly what they are and get rid of the 5 hit limit, Treble the Strength and power of the NPC’s where they can not be solo’d, like you need at least 1 team for a Road Guard, 2 for a Supply Camp, 3 for a Tower and 4 for a Keep.
In short do something to make it fun and not a mindless zerg

We do get to vote with our feet. Good luck to you.

Ok, dumb question. What’s the problem with another team coming and capturing it while people are offline? This gives us something to do when we get back online and they’re not.

LathanHaiko.9182:

Ok, dumb question. What’s the problem with another team coming and capturing it while people are offline? This gives us something to do when we get back online and they’re not.

Simply put if peeps only wanted that they may as well stay PvE because that’s all their basically doing, no skill, not thought, no tactics and free lobotomies all round

Fugly.5287:

This official statement is just another nail in the coffin. Good thing my buddies and I have already said our goodbyes to WvW.

Please tell me you have a team working on a new large scale PvP battle type with a duration of 1 to 4 hours.

Don’t let the door hit you.

No, really. Night capping is fine. If you don’t like it then play during the night as well. Wait, you can’t? Guess what! Many people playing at night cannot play during your hours as well. Why should they be punished in any way or form. Did they pay less for the game then you? No? Stop complaining.

Deal with it.

[quote=685206;Phoebe Ascension.8437:]

Killyox.3950:

Fugly.5287:

This official statement is just another nail in the coffin. Good thing my buddies and I have already said our goodbyes to WvW.

Please tell me you have a team working on a new large scale PvP battle type with a duration of 1 to 4 hours.

Don’t let the door hit you.

No, really. Night capping is fine. If you don’t like it then play during the night as well. Wait, you can’t? Guess what! Many people playing at night cannot play during your hours as well. Why should they be punished in any way or form. Did they pay less for the game then you? No? Stop complaining.

Deal with it.

But why are the people who can’t play at night punished, we have queues and if we don’t want to have them we have to distribute ourselfes equaly throughout the servers, why not force the night-crews to do the same with flexible allowed playernumbers in WvW.

Here are my suggestions as a game developer:

1. Time zone based server
   1. based on a 6 hour time zone difference
      1. makes 4 zones
   2. restrict people to playing within their zones
   3. have a couple open ‘international’ servers that can be joined by anyone
      1. treated as overflow, in that anyone from any server can play in them
2. Out-manned buff
   1. the others had it right, swap this buff with the orbs
3. Keep NPCs
   1. make NPCs stronger when out-manned
   2. scale NPC strength like with boss events
      1. more players = stronger NPCs
      2. not active if 6 or more defenders
   3. add another worker NPC upgrade
      1. more workers per depot that repair doors > walls
      2. worker/siege master at each ‘built in’ siege weapon
         1. only at cannons and oil
         2. no man made siege
         3. no mortars
4. Server reset
   1. on reset, outfit borderland keeps
      1. cannon and waypoint upgrades completed
      2. oil already built

This addresses most of the issues I see in WvW. If anyone has anything to add, reply here, or reply on the topic I am going to paste this too called ‘WvW Suggestion Box’

But who makes game that is advantage is to play at night time rly ???

When majority comes online all is upgraded and u cannot recap it for a long time or never.

Most of servers in top tier1,2,3 are coz of that are in best 10 nothing else where is the fun in fighting with AI every day, they can get like 40k karma in one night like np.

Dunno wot r u meaning to do with that kind of WvW, so nightshifters has better gear , lots of karma , and their server is the best wooopy, and they r MINORITY.

And MAJORITY suffers rly u need to take a side in majority or minority.

Zirdac.1259:

But who makes game that is advantage is to play at night time rly ???

When majority comes online all is upgraded and u cannot recap it for a long time or never.

Most of servers in top tier1,2,3 are coz of that are in best 10 nothing else where is the fun in fighting with AI every day, they can get like 40k karma in one night like np.

Dunno wot r u meaning to do with that kind of WvW, so nightshifters has better gear , lots of karma , and their server is the best wooopy, and they r MINORITY.

And MAJORITY suffers rly u need to take a side in majority or minority.

I blame the Greeks for making the earth round. If the world was still flat we wouldn’t have this problem.

Or maybe we can take the internet back from the world and restrict it to three time zones. Don’t get me wrong, I am totally agreeing with you. It is Anet’s fault for not realizing that the world has as many as 25 time zones. HUGE mistake on their part.

So we need all major commander to lobby for our server for US players so we can be competitve with other server , RLY ANET RLY????

So all servers need some players from another zone to be good or anything near good, such a shame u didnt think of that do U.?

Plus US players need EU players so they can be competitve with them rly this WvW sucks, or its all good for u ty bb cya stupid game creators and their staff.

Yet searching for another good and simple mmorpg from wow days, nowdays ppl get complicated and only need to be simple and do ur JOB! Game desinger!
I would fire ur kitten if u were working for me kitten, sry for insults but very frustrated of this WvW!

Zirdac.1259:

So we need all major commander to lobby for our server for US players so we can be competitve with other server , RLY ANET RLY????

So all servers need some players from another zone to be good or anything near good, such a shame u didnt think of that do U.?

Plus US players need EU players so they can be competitve with them rly this WvW sucks, or its all good for u ty bb cya stupid game creators and their staff.

Yet searching for another good and simple mmorpg from wow days, nowdays ppl get complicated and only need to be simple and do ur JOB! Game desinger!
I would fire ur kitten if u were working for me kitten, sry for insults but very frustrated of this WvW!

You made Anet kitten very sad. Now, beg for forgiveness.

And they call this fun
http://i1240.photobucket.com/albums/gg487/enolive69/TheyCallThisFun.jpg
Well maybe it is for mindless 50+ zergs against 15 but I don’t as I didn’t even get the render till after I was dead.
Please ArenaNet fix the rendering fully, make transfers 14 days and cash related, plus get rid of the AoE kittening Cap to at least give out numbered a chance against a huge bunch like this.
I would also remove XP and Karma from WvWvW simply because everyone gets raised up to level 80 and Karma is predominately PvE based rewards at most, this could very easy be countered by trebling the cash reward as a recompense for getting rid of the XP and Karma from WvWvW

EnoLive.2367:

And they call this fun
http://i1240.photobucket.com/albums/gg487/enolive69/TheyCallThisFun.jpg
Well maybe it is for mindless 50+ zergs against 15 but I don’t as I didn’t even get the render till after I was dead.
Please ArenaNet fix the rendering fully, make transfers 14 days and cash related, plus get rid of the AoE kittening Cap to at least give out numbered a chance against a huge bunch like this.
I would also remove XP and Karma from WvWvW simply because everyone gets raised up to level 80 and Karma is predominately PvE based rewards at most, this could very easy be countered by trebling the cash reward as a recompense for getting rid of the XP and Karma from WvWvW

I’m pretty sure squirrels would want cars to be nerfed after they became roadkill.

Close some server so we will get better population on the main server, lets say the truth, its not lunch anymore and we are probably losing player and player numbers will get ticker and ticker every month.

It kind of all fell apart didnt it?
Look at the mess the EU system is in with 1 24 hour mega server and everyone trying to avoid higher ranks. You made a system where people would prefer to lose and its considered misfortune to get promoted.

Your design is bad and you didnt listen to your playerbase. Fail

A one-time PvE event was just run (Lost Shores) at a time when it was almost impossible for Oceanic players to be online.

So clearly, the principle of all players being equally “valuable” is one that can be broken when required.

Since it was broken for PvE, why not break it for WvW? Like the one-time PvE events, start slanting WvW design towards time zones in which the bulk of GW2 players reside.

If anyone objects, two words: Lost Shores.

This is the reason we got for “nightcapping is OK, deal with it”:

Matt Witter.6982:

no player’s time is more valuable than another. Everyone has different off peak hours for whatever reason. Players should not be punished or unable to experience and view the same content as everyone else because they play at a different time. They too are paying customers.

Well I guess they just lied to us WvW players and needed some excuse to avoid fixing content.

This is indeed an excellent point.

The Lost Shores event has just invalidated the excuse for no action on night-capping in WvW. As quoted above, the excuse was everyone’s time is valuable.

But clearly, for the Lost Shores event, Oceanic player’s time was far less valuable than others’. It was almost impossible for them to be online for this event.

Since the principle was broken for PvE, why not break it for WvW and accommodate, as they did for Lost Shores, the time zones in which the bulk of the players live?

Also quoted saying. “We dont make grindy games” and “there will be no item progression”.

Both of those alos came to be very untrue.

I agree with this, though I’ve never had a big problem with nightcapping. But now that I’ve read the above quote it does seem to invalidate it. I did not feel like a valuable paying customer this event.

I hope this is addressed in future events.

Yes, there is a certain hypocrisy to that quote.

To be honest, when I read it the first time I already saw dozens of flaws with that logic.

Because essentially a night-cappers time is more valuable than a day-cappers, because he has way more impact on the overall score.

Pointing our ANets flaws in logic and reasoning though is like taking ice-cream from a 5 year old. Really not that challenging…

Honestly, I don’t care if ANet gives gear grinds. I’m a casual player but I do love getting something to look for that is not aesthetics. At least, on gear grind, I have a chance of getting them.

What I am really disappointed is giving us something that we don’t have option of doing (like doing a “one time” event 4am in the Monday morning when we need to go to work at 6am). 0% chance. 0, nada, none, null chance of participating.

It’s a good event, I got a glimpse of it, for like 10mins this morning. But I really need to go to work. Some of us are asleep at that hour as well.

So, for crying out loud, be fair next time. Give ALL players a chance, even at 0.001%.

knives.6345:

Honestly, I don’t care if ANet gives gear grinds. I’m a casual player but I do love getting something to look for that is not aesthetics. At least, on gear grind, I have a chance of getting them.

What I am really disappointed is giving us something that we don’t have option of doing (like doing a “one time” event 4am in the Monday morning when we need to go to work at 6am). 0% chance. 0, nada, none, null chance of participating.

It’s a good event, I got a glimpse of it, for like 10mins this morning. But I really need to go to work. Some of us are asleep at that hour as well.

So, for crying out loud, be fair next time. Give ALL players a chance, even at 0.001%.

Same here. Whatever happened to the philosophy behind GW1 events. Everyone should be given multiple opportunities of attending a special event.

I hope they’re doing one-time events because they have technical limitations to allowing the event to repeat, and not because it was a conscious design decision to basically say “sorry, too bad” to the players on the other side of the globe.

Ianervan.3415:

This is the reason we got for “nightcapping is OK, deal with it”:

Matt Witter.6982:

no player’s time is more valuable than another. Everyone has different off peak hours for whatever reason. Players should not be punished or unable to experience and view the same content as everyone else because they play at a different time. They too are paying customers.

Well I guess they just lied to us WvW players and needed some excuse to avoid fixing content.

Excelent post. Quoted for truth. I only hah 1 hour to play it. I guess I’ll never know how the last half went.

Thrumdi.9216:

This is indeed an excellent point.

The Lost Shores event has just invalidated the excuse for no action on night-capping in WvW. As quoted above, the excuse was everyone’s time is valuable.

But clearly, for the Lost Shores event, Oceanic player’s time was far less valuable than others’. It was almost impossible for them to be online for this event.

Since the principle was broken for PvE, why not break it for WvW and accommodate, as they did for Lost Shores, the time zones in which the bulk of the players live?

I’d rather say the WvW stance has invalidated one time events.

There’s a difference in a change of setting versus not participating at all.

Where is the quote that contradicts the nightcapping explanation?

Dee Jay.2460:

[cut]
Pointing our ANets flaws in logic and reasoning though is like taking ice-cream from a 5 year old. Really not that challenging…

You obviously don’t have children …

WvW and PvE have different rules. WvW is meant to be a 24 hour thing. Special Events don’t all have to be 24 hours long. If you get concert tickets, you expect to be able to drop in at any time during a 24 hour period to enjoy it?

Ruin - LOL-guild. Most of our top WWW-guilds will ignore them.

Ruin! Go back to Desol or, better, to the US-servers! You are not welcome here!

Shinigami.5932:

Where is the quote that contradicts the nightcapping explanation?

None that I am aware of. The contradiction is the fact that the Lost Shores final event was only offered once and at one time across the whole world. The event’s structure contradicted the night capping quote.

Its become abundantly clear the system that is currently in place favors those servers with “night” hours coverage. This shows that their playtime is far more important than those playing during “peak” time. “Night” and “Peak” times are varied by what region the server is in.

A server with high day participation, will have all its work for nothing if they do not have a “night crew”, and visa versa. The system has created a place where one group of people based on “night” coverage, time is far more valuable than those during the day.