Guild Wars 2

Voted for DBL and so did people I know. And they are playing on it.

EBG was king of the hill during ABL and during DBL and still after ABL was back and is still while 2 ABL/DBL. So something to ask ourselves. Why EBG remains king of the hill and think about that for new maps. Maybe its time to consider more 3-Way maps versus BL ideas.

The worst part about the dbl is all you whiners who never learned how to navigate or fight on it constantly crying. All your doing is hurting your team and game mode.

DeeSystm.1256:

The worst part about the dbl is all you whiners who never learned how to navigate or fight on it constantly crying. All your doing is hurting your team and game mode.

Whiners? The fact is, it takes too long to run from one tower to the next. Way too long. By the time swords pop and you get there, it’s flipped.

Horrible, horrible design. Needs to shrink in half. So much wasted/unused space.

As smart people mentioned before, if you do not have the numbers, there’s no way you can successfully defend/take the DBL. My server has it this week. We aren’t doing well. We can’t. We are habitually outnumbered on any BL we enter. It’s doubly bad on the DBL.

But gais, the real wvw gais who quit 2 years ago didn’t get to vote on keeping the dbl, it’s the pve gais in wvw now who voted, the results were not legit, if it’s not too legit you must acquit.

misterman.1530:

As smart people mentioned before, if you do not have the numbers, there’s no way you can successfully defend/take the DBL. My server has it this week. We aren’t doing well. We can’t. We are habitually outnumbered on any BL we enter. It’s doubly bad on the DBL.

If you don’t have the numbers you’re not going to defend anything anyway. This isn’t a map problem.

zinkz.7045:

Do you have any evidence to show that the polls included only WvW player votes, included no troll votes, included every WvW player that played on HoT release and that the statement by a dev on Reddit that more maps would be unlikely if the DBL got voted out, had no effect on the votes?

Tu quoque fallacy. Out out out.

zinkz.7045:

Not really, just the reality of the situation, WvW since HoT has not been a success, now I am sure that is not all down to the DBL, there are many factors, point is claiming some hopelessly flawed poll is representative of what the “WvW community” wanted in this game is laughable when so much of the WvW community has left the game in that time before the poll was made.

So it’s a pretty basic tautological problem you’ve got here. You’re assuming that someone who has completely cut ties with the game such that they are paying no attention to any of their news releases or even the emails that ANet are sending them can still be considered a member of the ‘WvW community’.

Like seriously. Are these people friends of yours? Tell them to come to the forums and post. Don’t speak for them.

zinkz.7045:

There is a reason WvW is down to server merges and probably the least healthy state it has ever been in, and isn’t because they provided what the community wanted.

Considering they aren’t server merges and they’ve explicitly stated what the intent of world linking is- to provide you with more variation in opponents and allies- this statement seems bizarre.

If you have so little faith in ANet, it begs the question of why you’re even here. Lazy emotional arguments aren’t going to win you much progress with anyone.

misterman.1530:

As smart people mentioned before, if you do not have the numbers, there’s no way you can successfully defend/take the DBL. My server has it this week. We aren’t doing well. We can’t. We are habitually outnumbered on any BL we enter. It’s doubly bad on the DBL.

DBL is more like a game of tug of war. You have to fortify your north and keeps and then once you have that then work south bound. Waypoints have an even higher value on DBL. It will be harder to hold the south on DBL but it means that’s the area you have to patrol. And I say this after defending DBL while being outnumbered at times on it this weekend. Sentries are also of more value, at least until people avoid them more so the warnings on the map go a long way. The bigger keeps also mean more warning and a better chance of blocking an assault. Long story short, yes its a longer area to run but that also means you might have a better chance of finding people for open field fights if they are moving to attack your objectives.

I belive DBL was meant to be played in thirds, but peeople still have the home map mentality that a single server need to hold everything and that’s why no one got adapted to it. I really hope they remove the two remaining ABL’s for maps that favor playing in thirds aswell.

People, please understand: Maps of a single color means a map without activity, that’s why EBG is the most popular map

misterman.1530:

DeeSystm.1256:

The worst part about the dbl is all you whiners who never learned how to navigate or fight on it constantly crying. All your doing is hurting your team and game mode.

Whiners? The fact is, it takes too long to run from one tower to the next. Way too long. By the time swords pop and you get there, it’s flipped.

Horrible, horrible design. Needs to shrink in half. So much wasted/unused space.

As smart people mentioned before, if you do not have the numbers, there’s no way you can successfully defend/take the DBL. My server has it this week. We aren’t doing well. We can’t. We are habitually outnumbered on any BL we enter. It’s doubly bad on the DBL.

Time to get there is a pretty bad reason seeing as a scout class with mobility could skew running time drastically, having scouts or map awareness also changes that problem. Other got the other stuff above me I believe.

There’s issues with all 3 maps, all have solutions.

I’m personally hoping to get a better understanding of the DBL and see if we can get this thirds mentality going eventually. I believe the more you take players through it and understanding the routes to get where you want to the fastest … the easier on others it will become. For example … we have Air Keep in our third … but I’ve never started in this section ever and spent maybe 20 hours in the map altogether (mostly on red side). I had no idea how to run from my spawn to the keep fast. Seriously. I’d spend a good 5 minutes trying to understand which way to go, and where it ends up.

But over time, I pick it up. Eventually I think we’ll have some good battles in DBL. Once players start getting accustomed to defending and building up their keeps. One thing I really enjoyed yesterday was seeing how some enemies (BG) were attacking certain areas, and holding the defenses at bay. They did a great job (this is to you XVX, QQ, and others that took air keep last night). I kinda fight blindly not yet accustomed to the terrain, so I find myself getting stuck in bad positions, but this isa learning curve, and I’m really enjoying the learning curve. I honestly didn’t think I would enjoy this map as much as I am, and I can see a lot of potential in the future.

Only thing I don’t get is … the middle, what is that… is there any use to it? Can we make it more accessible and put something all 3 teams want to fight over?

Also are there any guides tips or write ups on the map, something that would help newer players get better accustomed to it? Would love to share something like that on my server website to help others who may be in similar shoes to me.

The middle had skysplitter, that would shoot at all enemy structures for the team that conquered it. But it was a lag factory worse than a 3-way SMC fight in T1, so it was disabled. Somenthing need to replace it, if we’re ever to get the thirds mentality going on DBL.

Yeah, no need for a gimmicky thing, doesn’t even have to have a big impact on the current map design… I’d just like to see something draw players to alternate avenues from the circle the exists today. Alpine has nice terrain in the middle that both roamers, or squads can easily traverse, yet most large fights occur around it, mostly around keep objectives. EBG has SMC, and many fights occur around it. Don’t need a laser for tower / keep gimmicks. It kinda takes away from the utility of siege and players as your primary resource. Would like to expand on the fact that players matter more than anything else to take out objectives. Besides the map has plenty of areas you can make use of siege. The strange thing i find is it seems like the keeps are very large, meaning maybe most fights should happen once outer breeches as there is a lot of space between outer and inner.

Hell I’d even be happy if it was a camp in the middle that gacve your keep supplies twice as fast but only delivered it to your keep. I’m sure most people would try cap/keep that to get there keep upgraded.

Alpine will be imbroved soon or later to something diferent to…. for sure, 3 BL diferents maps at the end.

Even if was 3 alpine, it would end empty of being KTreined…

Altough… DBL some stuff on the DBL is not the right way for a game progressions…and some map effects need to be reduced.

Players dont want gimmicks has much Anet enforces it in classes and WVW maps..

SkyShroud.2865:

The popularity will is engineered, nothing is real, wvw continue to bleed.

It was bleeding well before that map. But y’all like to blame the map for people leaving, the map wasn’t the only thing wrong with the expansion, many other things dealt a blow to wvw players especially the small groups, offered nothing to gvg groups except the “too small” arena which no one uses.

Not even bringing back the savior alpine map could save wvw from the bleeding, which now obviously points to other problems with wvw other than the maps.

Keep blaming the map tho.

For me, the biggest issue with the DBL, is the way the structures are layed out as opposed to Alpine. The map is literally useless, everything is to far apart basically taking away all strategic value unlike on Alpine where every objective can be used strategically to attack another objective thus encouraging a progressive advance and emphasizing the importance of every structure. The dbl simply encourages bunkering for PPT, because if you lose something, who cares unless you need the PPT, not like the enemy can use that structure to attack anything else. On alpine everything has strategic value, making it more important to defend and attack.

It is not a map that encourages fights, its annoying to navigate often feeling like your going through a maze plus jumping puzzle. Sometimes keeping it simple is the best way to go, if your force is fighting over a keep and you die and have to run back, do you really want to go through a kitten maze and fall off cliffs to get back? Not to mention all the ridiculous gimmicks and annoying cc spamming lords.

The reason EB is more popular is because of the way the map is layed out as opposed to borderlands, the smaller tighter spaces combined with the addition of Stonemist castle right in the middle means there are always fights to be had. Borderlands have a circular layout, don’t have anything important for large groups in the middle, and are more PPT oriented because it is a servers home map. In EB, because of SMC, you can literally spend all night fighting over it without anyone going near each others keeps.

If the enemy servers have every keep at t3 on their borderland, would you rather waste time trying to attack it with all the siege and crap inside, or would you rather go to a map where you can get more fights. Take into account also the population is not as large as it was in the past, and not everyone is on during their servers most active time. This is why you will generally find the most action on EB during offhours, its easier for everyone to get into and find fights, simple as that.

Sarrs.4831:

Considering they aren’t server merges and they’ve explicitly stated what the intent of world linking is- to provide you with more variation in opponents and allies- this statement seems bizarre.

I’m from Gunnar’s Hold EU – we’ve always had changing matchups. It was rare that we’ve had the 2 same oppoents 2 weeks in a row. That’s because EU didn’t lock tiers.
After they started to delete tiers the matchups became more and more stale (of course) and now they deleted another tier and I can guarantee you that we will have the same opponents until the next tier is deleted.
So… … yeah.. wel… yes.. EU was pretty healthy before NA demanded a 24/7 coverage. The last 2 tiers weren’t, granted but diversity can’t happen if there’s only 3 servers left.
And since bigger is always better it doesn’t matter who exactly the facerollers are. If it’s server x merged with y or a b and c together.. doesn’t matter as long as they’ve got numbers, right?

I would had voted for it if i could , I love DBL .

zinkz.7045:

If players stopped playing the game after HoT and the DBL, then they weren’t here to vote 7 months later, hence the poll is a self selecting sample.

Yet these players you’re positing did not return when DBL was removed. Why, exactly, should they be considered to be part of the WvW community in that case? Their behavior suggests that since they did not return when the ABL’s were restored, they would not return if DBL was not added back in either.

As to “self-selecting sample,” how would you suggest polling players who are no longer active and have no interest in keeping current? I get that you think there were issues with the polling. How would you fix it?

A lot did return when the ABLs came back. A lot left once more when they realized that the DBLs weren’t the only problems wvw has got. The community changed and the DBLs are better suited for an EotM style wvw which wvw is turning into anyway.

ETA: And how to fix it: Anet needs to know what wvw needs and what it should be like. They need to have a vision – they can’t just let the players decide on everything.

just b/c ppl voted to keep it doesnt mean they are going to play it

i always voted in favour of DBL, reason u dont know me.

I only know people who voted in DBL favour.

A lot of people voted to keep DBL and have it in rotation because they know Anet wasn’t going to develop a new map for WvW. They’d need to wait another 2 years for a new WvW map. Alpine is great but the thought of going another 2 years without any new maps is just dreadful.

It’s really a lesser of two evils thing. Yes many dislike DBL, it’s too large, the multi-level design makes it tedious to find fights, the pointless center area is dumb, the added PvE-centric elements & gimmicks are bothersome, it’s a difficult map for defenders, towers have no strategic values, etc etc etc.. But people are willing to swallow all that just for the sake of having something different to play for the next two years.

And by the way, this is exactly what causes burnouts and how people lose interest in the first place. People are forced to pick lesser of two evils, rather than joyfully pick something they really enjoy and like.

Anet has a lot of catch up to do in terms of fixing WvW issues and implementing things that people want/like. That’s the reality of the situation.

I voted to keep it. I’m glad I did. It’s refreshing rediscovering things. No more autopilot for me.

But naysayers always gonna naysay. If not about this, then about pop imbalances, or elite specs, or skills that are overpowered… until they are playing pong again. All the while I’ll just enjoy having fun in the game and get used to this terrain. Can things be improved, sure … doesn’t mean I’m going to boycott things. I’m enjoying the map.

I voted to keep it and I play on it. I prefer it to Alpine. I like the multi-level thing going on. It’s closer to reality than Alpine. Every time I go into that map I find it quite full.

Xenesis.6389:

SkyShroud.2865:

The popularity will is engineered, nothing is real, wvw continue to bleed.

It was bleeding well before that map. But y’all like to blame the map for people leaving, the map wasn’t the only thing wrong with the expansion, many other things dealt a blow to wvw players especially the small groups, offered nothing to gvg groups except the “too small” arena which no one uses.

Not even bringing back the savior alpine map could save wvw from the bleeding, which now obviously points to other problems with wvw other than the maps.

Keep blaming the map tho.

Indeed it is already bleeding from before, however, the engineered popular will doesn’t change anything but to give a illusion that things are working in the right direction. The fact is, wvw continue to bleed despite the engineered popular will, that is what I mean.

PS: Quoting out of context doesn’t help with your argument.

kitten the desert BL

I’m of the opinion that all those who voted in favour of it and state they like it should be ported in to it every time they log in, and be unable to access any other wvw map.

However, the way the vote was rigged and the dark sayings on Reddit meant people were ‘forced’ into saying they wanted to keep it, otherwise the chances of ever getting a new wvw map receded from 1% in the next two years to exactly never.

We’re stuck with it now- think positively, there should be more people on EBL and the other two maps now as most avoid Deserted like the plague.

voted for it. love it many times more than alpine even with the nerfed pve changes. I really think they should undo the changes to fire keep….noone with 1/20th of a brain is gonna die to the lava or falls anymore. I like that it looks more ‘opened up’ but alot of the changes there were overboard handholding.

I mean if you wanna nerf pve deaths go to garrison on alpine and fix that….there are hundreds of ways to fall to ur death. Why should fire keep be changed but garri not be changed? Cause people learned garri and they didn’t learn fire keep, and they complained.

Hexinx.1872:

I voted to keep it. I’m glad I did. It’s refreshing rediscovering things. No more autopilot for me.

But naysayers always gonna naysay. If not about this, then about pop imbalances, or elite specs, or skills that are overpowered… until they are playing pong again. All the while I’ll just enjoy having fun in the game and get used to this terrain. Can things be improved, sure … doesn’t mean I’m going to boycott things. I’m enjoying the map.

Funny, the Pong reference has been going through my head over and over listening to the remove elites/siege/DBL/everything on all the maps people.

I don’t really get the population imbalance reference for it though.

I voted to keep DBL and I didn’t even really start playing on it until 2 months before linkings.

DBL failed the first time because there were 24 NA servers, half of which barely had enough people to que 1 of those maps when all 3 servers were on it. PVE stole alot of wvwers and we were told ABL “may” come back eventually.

There are more people crammed together now, the first 3 weeks of the first linking saw alot of action on DBL because that’s all we had. Now, we have people to fill the maps and a variety of map choices, how is this a bad thing? If people quit because of 1 map, the rest can just ktrain ABL like they’ve been doing for 4 months.

Thelgar.7214:

…
I don’t really get the population imbalance reference for it though.

Ah, I looped it into the mix. Just meant people who complain will always find something to complain about.

kefro.9312:

I know a lot of people and none of them voted for DBL

uhmmm, how many people you know again?

Norbe.7630:

kefro.9312:

I know a lot of people and none of them voted for DBL

uhmmm, how many people you know again?

Here you go…

kefro.9312:

Davion.8754:

This game is 24/7, if other people playing during what they consider day/peak time bothers you this much then maybe you should go play something else.

Me and my 40 friends online gang already did, soon all the others will do… So better fix this soon or kungkittenpandas will win

From another thread. He and his 40 friends … whom may already be planning to leave the game anyway.

Glass Hand.7306:

Nobody wants to come out and play on it so if you are red it’s going to be a long losing week.

I don’t know who voted for this but it was a really bad idea.

The guy said please in the thread title and for me….that’s enough. Down with the DBL!!
And the reason its back is due to Jeknar and his 12,000 accounts all voting

Avit.3165:

PyrateSilly.4710:

This was a majority vote to have and keep BOTH maps still in play. I prefer DBL and don’t like Alpine as much, I still played on it thou.
So who voted for it? A majority of the GW2 WvW population.

Who voted for DBL?
All the pvers, pvers who only play wvw on friday night, with the only hope for profitable karma train.

But i’m sure, you are very much aware what i am talking about.

I know what you’re talking out of, if that counts. =P

(Couldn’t resist, sorry)

gavyne.6847:

A lot of people voted to keep DBL and have it in rotation because they know Anet wasn’t going to develop a new map for WvW. They’d need to wait another 2 years for a new WvW map. Alpine is great but the thought of going another 2 years without any new maps is just dreadful.

It’s really a lesser of two evils thing. Yes many dislike DBL, it’s too large, the multi-level design makes it tedious to find fights, the pointless center area is dumb, the added PvE-centric elements & gimmicks are bothersome, it’s a difficult map for defenders, towers have no strategic values, etc etc etc.. But people are willing to swallow all that just for the sake of having something different to play for the next two years.

And by the way, this is exactly what causes burnouts and how people lose interest in the first place. People are forced to pick lesser of two evils, rather than joyfully pick something they really enjoy and like.

Anet has a lot of catch up to do in terms of fixing WvW issues and implementing things that people want/like. That’s the reality of the situation.

This is all spot on, and the activity data shows that people were losing interest anyway. DBL at least provides more variety. And even if 65% voted for it not 75% its still a significant majority.

SkyShroud.2865:

Actually, there is no such thing as 75% voted for DBL. The vote actually is to keep DBL or throw it away permanently and it is not even 75%.. Also, no one ever voted DBL to be part of the rotation, we were never given that choice. DBL is literally forced into the rotation without our consent. Our only option is to keep or not keep DBL but anet devs go beyond that and interpreted it as we want to keep it means we want it to be in rotation.

What? You’ve clearly misinterpreted the poll which is not anets fault. It was quite clear that voting to keep the DBL supported meant that it was coming back into WvW in some form, either as the home BL for 3 months or as part of a mixed BL make up. This was crystal clear. They had the poll previous to that one about how to bring back the DBL which was worded badly, so they decided to do the poll about supporting the DBL. This was done with the clear understanding that if it passed that they would rerun the poll about how to bring it back into rotation.

The map is being played inT3. I average around 5hrs a day in wvw, longer immediately after reset due to it being my weekend.

Every minute of that time either we had 5-10+ or were solidly outmanned. ( mostly with buff)

The map is being played, previously I could run weeks at a time solo roaming enemy BLs and not be outmanned unless we drew too much response.

Please take your zvz hats off and realise not all people stick to EBG.

Some of the enmy soloers, duos and trios are very good players, hats off to you as well.

Please keep bringing the fun.

Hello OP , I am mostly known as Dubain in game. I voted to keep DBL in rotation due to the choices offered.

I also play DBL nightly in preference to EBG. or lurk around home BL when it is invaded.

Nice to meet you.

Majority vote?

That’s a vote on a poll in which Anet gave the the outcomes they wanted.

You can bet your kitten that if the poll had the option “Make a new WvW BL” that would have been the majority vote.

But it wasnt included for obvious reasons.
As such, most players know some players like the DBL, and so the most logical vote to please everyone based on the poll options Anet gave was only 2 Alpine and 1 DBL. So not really much of a choice.

Buy Some Apples.6390:

most players know some players like the DBL

I’m inclined to disagree with the ammount of posts these people make about how DBL should burn in hell with all the people who voted on it. People just refuse to accept DBL as part of WvW and think EVERYONE hates it.

I voted to keep DBL in play, and yet I never play it (even when it’s my home bl). Why? Because other people preferred it, I only play one map at a time, and I don’t need three virtually identical maps to play on when I already have two (plus EBG).

Honestly, with the amount people whine about wvw I’m surprised Anet hasn’t told us all to go kitten ourselves by now.

Choppy.4183:

Honestly, with the amount people whine about wvw I’m surprised Anet hasn’t told us all to go kitten ourselves by now.

What you think their silence means? hint hint

Cool story, bro.

morrolan.9608:

SkyShroud.2865:

Actually, there is no such thing as 75% voted for DBL. The vote actually is to keep DBL or throw it away permanently and it is not even 75%.. Also, no one ever voted DBL to be part of the rotation, we were never given that choice. DBL is literally forced into the rotation without our consent. Our only option is to keep or not keep DBL but anet devs go beyond that and interpreted it as we want to keep it means we want it to be in rotation.

What? You’ve clearly misinterpreted the poll which is not anets fault. It was quite clear that voting to keep the DBL supported meant that it was coming back into WvW in some form, either as the home BL for 3 months or as part of a mixed BL make up. This was crystal clear. They had the poll previous to that one about how to bring back the DBL which was worded badly, so they decided to do the poll about supporting the DBL. This was done with the clear understanding that if it passed that they would rerun the poll about how to bring it back into rotation.

For the record, I voted not to keep the bl. However, since you mentioned crystal clear, can you provide the source where they clarify that?

As far as I remembered, there is no clarification. They “re-run” the poll purely because people mention of the ambiguous wordings for the previous. However, at the same time, I didn’t see majority of the comments asking for poll on deleting the BL, it is anet interpreting it that way and polling it that way. There is a big difference between deleting and KIVing it. The polling itself is already guilt tripping people.

Choppy.4183:

Honestly, with the amount people whine about wvw I’m surprised Anet hasn’t told us all to go kitten ourselves by now.

Pay attention. They did.

Anet sold us on a commitment to WvW as part of the HoT expansion. But, by their own admission, they utterly failed to deliver. The product they sold us was, BY THEIR OWN ADMISSION, not even Beta-ready. They have admitted to this.

Anet’s position on WvW falls somewhere between:

1) maps for scared-of-their-own-shadow PvE wanna-be’s, and
2) a waiting room for the third-party sponsored (i.e. revenue generating), eSport, sPvP.

Anet wanted WvW to fail in the exact same way that they wanted Dungeons to fail.

But once they realize how many people were leaving the game, due to their neglect of WvW, they did an about-face.

Unfortunately for us, however, since they’ve not give WvW a single thought since the release of the game, they’ve resorted to “polls” to do their thinking for them.

@Soon.5240… seriously? I have to say you have amazing nerve to come out and say such ridiculous stuff when you are NOT the company. Obviously don’t work for it.. .or if you did you would be fired.

The polls were requested over and over again by people here.

@ People against DBL. Suck it up.. DBL is here.. if you don’t like it, don’t play it. Frankly I see a lot of people in the DBL’s a lot of the time. .. and the other times it’s nice to roam and have small fights.. who the heck wants to zerg non-stop.. ugh.

and for the sake of your own sanity.. if you all really hate this game so much just go away! unless you actually have some constructive stuff to put in here other than EVERYONE hates this.. which obviously means everyone that agrees with you.

Frankly the DBL gives a nice bit of variety, both in map difference as well as population. Yes the huge groups prefer to blob in EB and the boooring Alpine maps… let them have them! Go blob .. there’s plenty of space for you to do that. There’s also plenty of people that love roaming that the DBL is nice for.

As for the ‘revenue generating’ comment… well DUH! What do you think they made this game for? fun? sheesh…

SkyShroud.2865:

As far as I remembered, there is no clarification. They “re-run” the poll purely because people mention of the ambiguous wordings for the previous. However, at the same time, I didn’t see majority of the comments asking for poll on deleting the BL, it is anet interpreting it that way and polling it that way. There is a big difference between deleting and KIVing it. The polling itself is already guilt tripping people.

Poll is gone from the website but here’s a dev post which explains what they were going to do:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/WvW-Poll-31-May-Mixed-Borderlands-CLOSED/page/8#post6187581

I still ask were all those voters are, because i never see them on a dbl map. And i have accounts in both EU and NA and every server that have dbl are struggling to get people on it. So were are you voters? You have your chance to really shine now and pick up dbl and make new tactics, tag up and run your thing and enjoy your map. But i never see you, i only see the outnumbered buff on each server i check.
So were are you?

My whole guild of 80 actives voted for it and we like that you don’t like it. Keep the zergs out. The small scale fights are incredible.