Guild Wars 2

kittenra Quo.1932:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/World_Experience

says:
1/3/6/10/+15 supply capacity

Those values are disputed by the in-game interface as well as the “talk” page of the wiki, linked in the center of the page you linked.

Imo all commanders should be going for all 5 points in supply before anything else. Or anyone who likes to repair/build siege.

Cannons/Ballistas should be for the defensive/fallback group that don’t necessarily want to follow the zergball.

And guard defense/damage for those leveling alts.

Dont you know? Its about breaking the mold.
Big successful companies like Blizzard learned that players dont like small numbers. Giving them +1% to something wasnt exciting, and didnt really feel like you were gaining anything significant.

GW2 looks to break that mold. Stage 1 is with these new WvW abilities. Spend lots of time in WvW and you and your friends can earn up to 5% bonus to siege damage!

Arrow Cart only hitting things for 500 damage? Tired of it taking 40 hits with an arrow cart to kill someone with 20,000 life? Well just get your 5% siege damage boost, and you will soon be doing 525 damage with arrow carts? Now it will only take you about 38 hits with an arrow cart! Wow what a difference!!!

It would make more sense if it was additive. +15% for max rank seems like a far more logical choice than just +5%. Still, +15 supply would be crazy, you could carry 30 supply and build your own siege (which I think would be awesome).

I don’t think the problem is that these particular passives will take a while to get. I think the problem is that they’ll add more passives in a month or two down the line and possibly just keep adding them and still say that you can hope to get all of them in a reasonable time-frame.

Stop with these stupid QQ threads please. It is a carrot chase for people that like to chase carrots, which a huge part of the community requested in all aspects of this game. Nothing is obligating you to grind it out, nor is a fully WXP level’d player even remotely over-powered compared to a lvl 0. Yes there are benefits, but they are small and just worth it enough to work towards.

Quit complaining & enjoy the fact that the community is growing (after largely shrinking from Nov >> January) due to these changes. Thank you.

I think its an overrated skill to begin with. We already split off only a small part of the zerg to get supply from a camp because unupgraded it has just 100 supply total. Assuming it wasnt raided before we got there.

Now if everyone runs with extra supply we can still only take 100supply. It would allow a zerg to raid more supply camps and build up a bigger supply buffer. But thats not always desireable.
If you are going for a cap, having supply is rarely if ever a problem to build enough siege machines to actually get inside. If you are going for Trebbing you need a reinforced position anyway and you’re construction of Trebs will almost certainly be limited by the Supply Camps generating supply and not your ability to carry it around.

If you are running Supply to siege up a recently capped tower/keep, you don’t want to stay away from it for to long. And taking a bigger detour to get the extra supply you can now carry comes with the risk that you might be to late to get siege going. Mostly you want to get a camp, run back and spend the supply on siege, and then get anohhter camp. Assuring you have some defenses ready in an otherwise poorly defended position.

It will mostly benefit small groups that might now be able to afford that extra siege or a superior version that they otherwise wouldnt. For zergs, its not a terribly big deal because you are far more limited by the Supply Camps only having a max of 100 Supply (if it even has any available at the time at all).
The only time it would be a serious advantage is just after reset, carrying over as much supply as possible into the new match.

If the GW2 wiki is correct, then every tier lists aditional bonuses and not the total?

so rather than 11,12,13,14 & 15 supply, the wiki think it’ll stack up to be 11, 13, 16, 20 & 25 supply that you can carry…. While I’m only more confused now, it would be nice if someone would clarify which is correct, lol.

The thing that people don’t realize about this supply carrying cap - camps still create X amount of supply. Large zergs (when re-supplying) empty camps and often individuals do not get re-supplied even with 10/15 carry amount depending on upgades. Essentially, the fact that one can carry more supply doesn’t necessarily improve an overall zerg as there is still an issue of supply (what the camps can provide) vs demand (what the users can carry).

If the demand AND supply was increased, then yes, these would be insane upgrades.

docMed.7692:

Stop with these stupid QQ threads please. It is a carrot chase for people that like to chase carrots, which a huge part of the community requested in all aspects of this game. Nothing is obligating you to grind it out, nor is a fully WXP level’d player even remotely over-powered compared to a lvl 0. Yes there are benefits, but they are small and just worth it enough to work towards.

The community asked for incentives. Just because the devs gave us something, doesnt mean its what players wanted or care about. “Carrot on a stick” works for a horse, or mule, because they like carrots. Put a carrot on a stick in front of an alligator and it would care less about the so called “incentive”.

“Id like incentives to do X, Y and Z please”
“If you do X, Y, and Z, we will give you this bag of smelly trash, now get to work now that you have your incentive!”

It can really only be called an incentive if its actually something people want and care about. Its not even about the work of effort needed. People in this game would have been willing to do 5 times the amount of work to get incentives that were actually good. Instead, we asked for a cookie, and all we got were cookie crumbs.

Gadzooks.4687:

docMed.7692:

Stop with these stupid QQ threads please. It is a carrot chase for people that like to chase carrots, which a huge part of the community requested in all aspects of this game. Nothing is obligating you to grind it out, nor is a fully WXP level’d player even remotely over-powered compared to a lvl 0. Yes there are benefits, but they are small and just worth it enough to work towards.

The community asked for incentives. Just because the devs gave us something, doesnt mean its what players wanted or care about. “Carrot on a stick” works for a horse, or mule, because they like carrots. Put a carrot on a stick in front of an alligator and it would care less about the so called “incentive”.

“Id like incentives to do X, Y and Z please”
“If you do X, Y, and Z, we will give you this bag of smelly trash, now get to work now that you have your incentive!”

It can really only be called an incentive if its actually something people want and care about. Its not even about the work of effort needed. People in this game would have been willing to do 5 times the amount of work to get incentives that were actually good. Instead, we asked for a cookie, and all we got were cookie crumbs.

They said from the start these are just the first few “incentives” and that many more will come. They delievered so far exactly what they discussed. Again, more needless QQ with little foresight.

Id have to go back and read all the dev posts and interviews, but I could have sworn that they said “changes” and not “incentives” when they refered to “more to come” Of course, some of those changes could be more incentives.

And again, its not so much that bonus siege damage isnt wanted. Its just the amount of the bonus that is a joke. Small numbers just arent inspiring or noticeable most of the time. Buy 1 rank and get +1%? really? 1%?!?!? Do you realize how insignificant 1% is in PvP? If there were 25 ranks, allowing us to eventually get 25%, then that would be different. Unfortunately its capped at 5%.

The devs need to be made aware that their over cautious paranoia of giving too much of a bonus isnt going to cut it. Thats not QQ, thats simply saying “Giving a grain of rice to starving person because you are afraid he will choke on more, isnt going to help the fact that he is starving”

Its ridiculous how any remarks that dont completely agree with what the devs do, are labeled as QQ. Im gonna start incorporating that into real life.

Hangs a picture on the wall
“Tilt it about a quarter inch to the left because its not straight”
“Stop with the QQ for goodness sake!!!”

sells a cheeseburger with fries
“I asked for no pickles!!”
“Stop with the QQ and eat your food!”

Fits a pair of new shoes on a customer
“These are way too small, its scrunching up my toes”
“Stop with the QQ and just learn to walk”

SilverWF.4789:

So, only extra 5 supplies for… 520 WXP levels?
520 lvls or 2.6kk WXP or 100k and more kills or 5 and more months (nearly 1k kills per day)?
Are you kiddin?
Aren’t you said your game will be free from mindless grind?

Did you really think they would do anything that would give players a huge advantage?

@docMed

I know you like the game, and you want to defend what they have done, but so did people in games like Age of Conan, and other failed games that are no longer being played.

If you don’t want this game you obviously love to be another MMO failure, hold the devs accountable for their actions, or you’ll be playing this game alone.

They did not deliver half of what they said they would this patch, for example many Ranger fixes, Necromancer fixes, and so on. The rank system, and rewards is so bad, I could have created the backbone for a much better system within an hour.

morrolan.9608:

SilverWF.4789:

So, only extra 5 supplies for… 520 WXP levels?
520 lvls or 2.6kk WXP or 100k and more kills or 5 and more months (nearly 1k kills per day)?
Are you kiddin?
Aren’t you said your game will be free from mindless grind?

Did you really think they would do anything that would give players a huge advantage?

I would expect them to be more realistic. Do you really think I have the time to level 6 toons to 300, let alone spend the time to level 6 toons for other Wxp rewards? I run a business, have a wife, and four kids. The least they could have done before I leveled 6 80s, and geared them out, was to warn me that I’d be forced to spend my time on one toon, if I wanted to enjoy WvW perks, BEFORE I leveled the other toons.

You champion thier choices like other failed MMOs, like Age of Conan, wher epeople also didn’t hold the devs accountable, and the game died. Do you want that to happen to GW2?

katniss.6735:

Imo all commanders should be going for all 5 points in supply before anything else. Or anyone who likes to repair/build siege.

Cannons/Ballistas should be for the defensive/fallback group that don’t necessarily want to follow the zergball.

And guard defense/damage for those leveling alts.

Disagree with that assessment, ballista mastery will probably be my priority as proper use and placement can make or break a siege. After that, I’d take reduced siege and guard damage to avoid getting knocked down in a fight.

A commander is there to manage supply, not to carry it.

jkctmc.8754:

You champion thier choices like other failed MMOs, like Age of Conan, wher epeople also didn’t hold the devs accountable, and the game died. Do you want that to happen to GW2?

I reckon you need to take a look at my posting history. IMHO the progression system is poor.

Frankly I’m fairly disappointed that the levels aren’t account wide. This is going to seriously deter people from playing with alts (I know I’m not going to bother if anything real is going on) in WvW cause they’ll fall behind on wxp.

I am not buying a single one of these boring, unimaginative abilities, rather let the points collect dust.

jkctmc.8754:

@docMed

I know you like the game, and you want to defend what they have done, but so did people in games like Age of Conan, and other failed games that are no longer being played.

If you don’t want this game you obviously love to be another MMO failure, hold the devs accountable for their actions, or you’ll be playing this game alone.

They did not deliver half of what they said they would this patch, for example many Ranger fixes, Necromancer fixes, and so on. The rank system, and rewards is so bad, I could have created the backbone for a much better system within an hour.

Just another needless rant (comparing this to AoC? I Lol’d). I missed the part where I indicated I love this game and/or did not acknowledge it [the patch] isn’t perfect? Go make a post that provides constructive feedback if you clearly have such problems with it. My intent is to discredit blatant ragers when in fact we should be grateful arenanet listens to its player base and responds.

I’d much prefer a tight knit community that enjoys the game than some whiney 16 year olds upset they’ll have to play A TON of WvW to hit the highest prestige and obtain (minimal) advantages.

Doc, you do realize that saying that every persons opinion who disagrees with yours is “needless” or just “QQ” doesnt make your opinion any more right, or theirs any more wrong.

It simply means you have to resort to bashing a conflicting opinion because you cant form decent statements to support your own. Not much different than just a sophisticated way of saying “Yeah, well you’re ugly” to win a debate.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

sostronk.8167:

So heavily gated. Can’t they leave that in PvE.

Because these are so crucial to have, I take it?

The +5 total Supply can work well with a “Guild Fortified Transporter” but other than that, I don’t see how it’s terribly useful. In fact, very little of this is absolutely a “must get”.

Your obviously bad at WvW if you don’t think +5 supplies is very useful. Please don’t use the word "fact"ever again when talking about WvW.

Gadzooks.4687:

Doc, you do realize that saying that every persons opinion who disagrees with yours is “needless” or just “QQ” doesnt make your opinion any more right, or theirs any more wrong.

It simply means you have to resort to bashing a conflicting opinion because you cant form decent statements to support your own. Not much different than just a sophisticated way of saying “Yeah, well you’re ugly” to win a debate.

These posts are about “what’s wrong” rather than “how to fix it”, hence the reference to “needless QQ”. Obviously this system isn’t perfect, but whining about it in an unconstructive manner is simply /zzzz.

sostronk.8167:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

sostronk.8167:

So heavily gated. Can’t they leave that in PvE.

Because these are so crucial to have, I take it?

The +5 total Supply can work well with a “Guild Fortified Transporter” but other than that, I don’t see how it’s terribly useful. In fact, very little of this is absolutely a “must get”.

Your obviously bad at WvW if you don’t think +5 supplies is very useful. Please don’t use the word "fact"ever again when talking about WvW.

I never claimed to be awesome. I just presented my opinion about this. Because, as I said, I question how useful it can be outside of some circumstances.

Oh I can think of things to do with it, but carrying 15/20/50 supply doesn’t do much good if there’s no supply to grab like a lot of last night when I was running around . . . If it’s only a couple people on a map, or a repair team running to grab patch kits for walls/gates? Sure, that’s probably a good use of it. A group of 5 able to drop rams or catapults easier? Sure, that’d be nice. But for the bulk of the busier times?

If the camps are emptied by zergs ikittenseconds then what difference does it make if each one picked up 10 or 15 supply? Well, okay, it means it can empty out faster. There’s a finite amount of supply on the map at a given time, even if it regenerates.

That’s how I’m seeing this. I could be wrong, but if it’s really awesome? Then it should cost that much more than anything else.

docMed.7692:

These posts are about “what’s wrong” rather than “how to fix it”, hence the reference to “needless QQ”. Obviously this system isn’t perfect, but whining about it in an unconstructive manner is simply /zzzz.

Pointing out what people dislike about the games development and what they feel was a disapointment is valid feedback.

On the otherhand, QQing about QQ…

Besides, we are in no position to tell ANet how to fix it. We tell them what we like, and dont like. And its upto them to come up with a way that fits in with the rest of their design, aswell as a way to do this with the resources they have available.

Terrahero.9358:

docMed.7692:

These posts are about “what’s wrong” rather than “how to fix it”, hence the reference to “needless QQ”. Obviously this system isn’t perfect, but whining about it in an unconstructive manner is simply /zzzz.

Pointing out what people dislike about the games development and what they feel was a disapointment is valid feedback.

On the otherhand, QQing about QQ…

Besides, we are in no position to tell ANet how to fix it. We tell them what we like, and dont like. And its upto them to come up with a way that fits in with the rest of their design, aswell as a way to do this with the resources they have available.

You should really read at least the OP before commenting, don’t ya think?

I take back what I said about this being a grind. Its actually not bad. You get XP from doing any events in WvW. My impression initially was that it was ONLY from WvW invader kills. Anet really needs to be a bit more clear with their wording.

sostronk.8167:

I take back what I said about this being a grind. Its actually not bad. You get XP from doing any events in WvW. My impression initially was that it was ONLY from WvW invader kills. Anet really needs to be a bit more clear with their wording.

It’s still kinda grindy to get 20 for the skill upgrade.

On the other hand, two nights of 3 hours in EB and I’m at 5 already. So maybe not that harsh? I know I was mostly playing defense rather than offense so it wasn’t raking in the World XP.

I’m definitely going for Ballista first. 25% increased damage + range and faster moving bolts, along with a new skill and large blast radius on the AoE skill. If you have one person with this maxed in your zerg there is a good chance you can counter anything the enemy zerg places, since most people will probably not go for it or have it maxed any time soon.

Oooh snap. We actually have to work for something?
As someone who just took 5 months to earn his legendary I’m looking forward to the challenge. =)
Keep at it, you’ll eventually get there. Remember, +5 supply is no small boon. That’s half again potency. Of course it should have to be earned.

… my two cents.

~ Kovu

docMed.7692:

Terrahero.9358:

docMed.7692:

These posts are about “what’s wrong” rather than “how to fix it”, hence the reference to “needless QQ”. Obviously this system isn’t perfect, but whining about it in an unconstructive manner is simply /zzzz.

Pointing out what people dislike about the games development and what they feel was a disapointment is valid feedback.

On the otherhand, QQing about QQ…

Besides, we are in no position to tell ANet how to fix it. We tell them what we like, and dont like. And its upto them to come up with a way that fits in with the rest of their design, aswell as a way to do this with the resources they have available.

You should really read at least the OP before commenting, don’t ya think?

I have, and his complaint is simple. He feels that its a massive grind, and waaaay to much of a time investment to get pretty simple minor upgrades. Seems like a valid complaint.

On the otherhand you have managed 6 posts, and after raising a valid point in one of your posts, 4 have just been complaining about complaining. And this one an attempt at a pointless jab. Talk about senseless.

There are valid concerns and criticisms being posted here. And i tend to agree with some of them. The cost and timesink to get fairly simple skills, that arent even that good, is quite severe. Considering it takes more effort to get fairly minor upgrades, as opposed to spending less time/grind to get things that help you in all assets of the game (Asc. Gear) which is also something you can do on one character and have benefit another.

And i don’t think all that many people even wanted this kind of carrot-on-a-stick, a cynical person could easily suggest it was done on purpose as a pacifier to create a grindy system just to keep people running the threadmill as a way to not have to come up with real content for another while. Such as, meaningful gear, cool skins, actually rewarding so you can earn some coin as opposed to goldsinks.

docMed.7692:

These posts are about “what’s wrong” rather than “how to fix it”, hence the reference to “needless QQ”. Obviously this system isn’t perfect, but whining about it in an unconstructive manner is simply /zzzz.

People post things like, “I don’t like that WXP is per character and not per account,” or “The ability values seem underwhelming,” or “I’m disappointed they didn’t include ‘do more damage to siege’”, and you really need to be told explicitly what the fixes would be?

I’m pretty sure the point is you’re not supposed to GRIND for it. The bonuses are marginal, enough that a group of veteran WvW players with tons of bonuses will be a steadier force but not an overpowering force.

If you make the bonuses any more than they are, you are honestly making WvW stupid.

Have fun doing these on more than one character as well.

Dont forget you have to take those supplies from somewhere. If this new ability stacks to a total of 20 supplies, this would mean 5 players could suck supply camps from full to zero.

The more supplies you can carry the harder it will get to actually acquire those supplies.

At 5 hours a day, you can have this maxed out in 2 months. Thats not bad at all considering I have been playing wvw since game launch, I am willing to work 2 months for a goal like this.

I imagine in 3 months a hardcore wvw guild would have all its members ready with this buff.

Finally, true that there is a finite amount of supply on the map. But you forget keeps being stockpiled with 1700 supply overnight (hello EB). And you also forget that siegerazor refills all your supply, and I am assuming will fill you up to 15 if that is what your cap is. A guild being able to actually take 15 supply is actually very game changing, but you will notice these things months down the road from now, which is good, cause the dedicated guilds will be achieving quite a lot more then.

Voilodion.3791:

docMed.7692:

These posts are about “what’s wrong” rather than “how to fix it”, hence the reference to “needless QQ”. Obviously this system isn’t perfect, but whining about it in an unconstructive manner is simply /zzzz.

People post things like, “I don’t like that WXP is per character and not per account,” or “The ability values seem underwhelming,” or “I’m disappointed they didn’t include ‘do more damage to siege’”, and you really need to be told explicitly what the fixes would be?

did you read the op?

Terrahero.9358:

docMed.7692:

Terrahero.9358:

docMed.7692:

These posts are about “what’s wrong” rather than “how to fix it”, hence the reference to “needless QQ”. Obviously this system isn’t perfect, but whining about it in an unconstructive manner is simply /zzzz.

Pointing out what people dislike about the games development and what they feel was a disapointment is valid feedback.

On the otherhand, QQing about QQ…

Besides, we are in no position to tell ANet how to fix it. We tell them what we like, and dont like. And its upto them to come up with a way that fits in with the rest of their design, aswell as a way to do this with the resources they have available.

You should really read at least the OP before commenting, don’t ya think?

I have, and his complaint is simple. He feels that its a massive grind, and waaaay to much of a time investment to get pretty simple minor upgrades. Seems like a valid complaint.

On the otherhand you have managed 6 posts, and after raising a valid point in one of your posts, 4 have just been complaining about complaining. And this one an attempt at a pointless jab. Talk about senseless.

There are valid concerns and criticisms being posted here. And i tend to agree with some of them. The cost and timesink to get fairly simple skills, that arent even that good, is quite severe. Considering it takes more effort to get fairly minor upgrades, as opposed to spending less time/grind to get things that help you in all assets of the game (Asc. Gear) which is also something you can do on one character and have benefit another.

And i don’t think all that many people even wanted this kind of carrot-on-a-stick, a cynical person could easily suggest it was done on purpose as a pacifier to create a grindy system just to keep people running the threadmill as a way to not have to come up with real content for another while. Such as, meaningful gear, cool skins, actually rewarding so you can earn some coin as opposed to goldsinks.

tl; dr

LieutenantGoogle.7326:

I’m surprised at how little people see the advantage in having 5 more supplies per character.

This usually means that when attacking a keep a attacking team can place 1 more ram for every 8 people. 40% better wall/gate repairs per person, only 3 people to make a ram as opposed to 4 (this is pretty big)

Supplies are the life and blood of wvw, you can’t go expecting to get a +10 supply buff and not expect for it to be broken.

The problem with this calculation is that you assume that supplies are available in large numbers. But they aren’t and therefore the +5 supply will be next to useless in most situations other than the beginning of reset-night or the beginning of a special event when everybody brings a fully supllied character.

It’s definitely handy if you’re running with a small group that doesn’t eat up all the 100 supplies a camp provides. Then it will be beneficial to be able to carry more supply.

But in a normal WvW situation with a zerg of more than 40 people, and a not fully supplied fortress that you can plunder, you won’t really benefit from +5 supply as a team. Because there just won’t be enough supply available to max out everyones capacity. All the +5 will do is spread the supply out more unevenly so that less people will get some and more people will run around empty.

Therefore, I will go for the other things first. NPCs doing less damage/taking more damage can be handy for roamers and the siege improvement also seems like a thing to go to.
But overall, I don’t think these upgrades will have much of an impact. I had hoped for more revolutionary novelties. Because to be frank, the only thing I’m exited about with this new patch is the possibility of finally getting other exotic gear than soldier’s via WvW (and at a more reasonable, yet still hefty, cost). The ranks are nothing I will concern myself with, or focus on. The improvements they provide seem to be too negligible to me.

Jackie.1829:

Finally, true that there is a finite amount of supply on the map. But you forget keeps being stockpiled with 1700 supply overnight (hello EB). And you also forget that siegerazor refills all your supply, and I am assuming will fill you up to 15 if that is what your cap is. A guild being able to actually take 15 supply is actually very game changing, but you will notice these things months down the road from now, which is good, cause the dedicated guilds will be achieving quite a lot more then.

This is an interesting notion I hadn’t thought about: Does the siegerazer really fill you up to 15? I can’t imagine that it works that way; I mean siegerazer doesn’t even fill a whole zerg with 10 supplies (bug or intended, I don’t know, but when we are really numerous there are always some who get no supply despite standing next to the npc).
But it would definitely make the whole supply upgrade much better, as keeps with 1700 supply are not always available (at least not when you have enemies who play well and harass your supply chain).

I guess we’ll see when the first people have 20 points available to spend on the first extra supply point, which should be today or tomorrow max for hc players.

I would have loved a lot better some passive abbilities like 5% chance of gaining protection or stability for 5 seconds/30 sec cooldown when hit or 5% chance on gaining fury 5sec/30 sec cd and so on for such a big ammount od points.That would make a lot more sense for the ridiculous grind than these absolutely useless skills we have got.Just my 2 cents

No, the abilities were never meant to change 1vs1 player combat, ANet clearly said that and it will hopefully never be changed. Nobody not playing WvW regularly should be at a disadvantage when it comes to the core mechanics of player vs player action.
Again: if you feel that you have to grind for theses abilities, that’s fine. But it’s not meant to be done that way, the abilities aren’t gamebreaking because they’re meant to be achieved over a long time of normal playing, not heavy grinding.