Guild Wars 2

Camelot unchained, what a glorious day that will be.

Btw, low tiers don’t even know what GvG is, let alone skill groups.

I wish the game was actually balanced for more variation in Large Scale Open field fights, but it’s mostly Zergs running Melee Trains with Ranged AOE unless it’s a random pug composition, even then some Servers have taught their Community to run Blob Trains the same way, but with less Build crafting and coordination of course.

GvG lacks the support and can be toxic to some communities if the Guilds aren’t open minded, PPT brings a Community to work together – sadly it’s a flawed Scoring Metric that doesn’t really show Server Superiority in terms of Strategy and Tactics, it only rewards Servers with more people playing at night or day.

You made a typo: instead of saying last, you said mag would be first.

Axialbloom.8109:

You made a typo: instead of saying last, you said mag would be first.

Mag has most of the top NA guilds right now, I don’t know why, I find it quite boring to all sit on the server and destroy people at prime time, but thats the way it is. The only guild posing a challenge at all would be Agg.

check on youtube –
GW2 Truth/Anet/Devs/WvW/ESport/GVG/Leaks/Reveals

Dev:“WvW is not about GvG”
Sac:“Wvw IS about GVG”

Thanks for posting this man.

Totally supporting you. I got burned out and bored of ppt a long time ago already.
To all who reading and think it’s a good minds, please support this thread.

GvG in NA was at its pinnacle right before orbaggedon

After that it just hasn’t been the same

Hvaran.6327:

check on youtube –
GW2 Truth/Anet/Devs/WvW/ESport/GVG/Leaks/Reveals

Dev:“WvW is not about GvG”
Sac:“Wvw IS about GVG”

Thanks for posting this man.

Totally supporting you. I got burned out and bored of ppt a long time ago already.
To all who reading and think it’s a good minds, please support this thread.

I don’t know how any dev out there could tell me what WvW is actually for. I play the mode about 10 times more than you and have for the last year. The devs are just embarassed to admit WvW turned into something different than they thought. This is true about most of gw2, and thats fine, thats the beauty of it. The playerbase takes it and allows it to evolve.

With the case of WvW, people realized PPT is no test of skill, but fights are. Yet thats not how the skill of servers is determined.

CU will probably have a different set of problems.

Yes, my guild and I are looking forward to it as well; I’m realistic though.

Broad paintbrush: “all T1 stacked, blob-centric servers only play for PPT and no one there knows how to fight or is skilled.”

Realistic photo: many good players on all servers (including T1) have a lot of experience from other games as well as GW2, enjoy fights and are skilled.

Balanced view: WvW players have different expectations about how they want to play their particular type of WvW.

Hope: there is room for diversity.

Current state: none of the WvW players are being particularly well served at the moment. (Broader paint brush.)

Carry on.

Hvaran.6327:

check on youtube –
GW2 Truth/Anet/Devs/WvW/ESport/GVG/Leaks/Reveals

I’m genuinely surprised by the amount of people that haven’t seen it or even worse that started to watch, got 5 mins into it and decided “I don’t get it”. It single handily gave me the greatest insight into ANet politics and attitude towards WvW.

It even gave you secondary information into why, for example, we were given a skyhammer styled EotM. /facepalm

Anyways, most people on this forum already know the status quo of WvW, Sacrx just gives you the why.

Just how exactly would you score around fights? 30 vs 15…… the 30 winning and gets more points? Would the small scale skirmishes around camps, dollies etc that people enjoy no longer be important removing any tactical elements?
Or would you herd everyone into guilds ?
Not saying the status quo is where I want to be but it would be impossible to score from “fights”.

hholls.3278:

Just how exactly would you score around fights? 30 vs 15…… the 30 winning and gets more points? Would the small scale skirmishes around camps, dollies etc that people enjoy no longer be important removing any tactical elements?
Or would you herd everyone into guilds ?
Not saying the status quo is where I want to be but it would be impossible to score from “fights”.

You really can’t, and there’s no reason why they shouldn’t. “Skill groups” are some of the worst players in WvW I ever encounter and contribute absolutely nothing most of the time, coupled with having a horrible attitude towards WvW and everyone that’s not them.

Good, larger groups that have a focus on PPT are lovely to be around most of the time however. Good groups can and do have a large input on PPT, whether that group consist of two or 20 players. “Skill groups” purposefully ignore this fact in favor of “finding the good fights”, probably because they don’t really have any idea how WvW works and have no interest in learning.

hholls.3278:

Just how exactly would you score around fights? 30 vs 15…… the 30 winning and gets more points? Would the small scale skirmishes around camps, dollies etc that people enjoy no longer be important removing any tactical elements?
Or would you herd everyone into guilds ?
Not saying the status quo is where I want to be but it would be impossible to score from “fights”.

Im not quite sure yet. I’ve had some ideas but still need to work on them. I think the community needs to brainstorm some ideas. The thing is there are groups that win 15v30 and 15v40. I mean that alone proves the difference in skill, yet there is no system is place to acknowledge it.

I mean think about it. Right now in gw2, there are servers that have 1/5th the coverage of another, yet win 75% of the fights they engage in. The outmanned server technically is more quality than the other, therefore they should be ranked higher.

I’m sure this has been suggested before: An instanced arena for GvG (no balance required). Use a subset (e.g. condensed/trimmed set) of the current maps (including EotM) which are randomly spawned when entering. Set a limit of 20 players, 30 players, 40 players each (pick a tier). Set a timer, at the end of 15 minutes, or 30 minutes, (again tiered), calculate the GvG points based on number of players and time <waves hands here mathematically>, take scored points (use multiplier or percentage) and add to PPT.

Means taking GvG off of the maps which will have a different impact on WvW. GvG battles will still contribute however.

Allows for balanced GvG fights.

Impacts ANet’s servers (for those instances) and requires investment.

/top of head simplistic post off

Implication of course is that GvG is still server vs server.

SkylightMoon.1980:

I think the community needs to brainstorm some ideas.

We should organise another CDI, I love CDI, CDI is amazing. Yes, CDI, CDI, CDI….

Sorry.

I really just wanted to type ‘CDI’.

SkylightMoon.1980:

I don’t know how any dev out there could tell me what WvW is actually for. I play the mode about 10 times more than you and have for the last year. The devs are just embarassed to admit WvW turned into something different than they thought. This is true about most of gw2, and thats fine, thats the beauty of it. The playerbase takes it and allows it to evolve.

You where spying me or what?
Tones of people leaving the game cause they don’t want to balance the game for those fights and ignored GvG community from the beginning. And you telling that playerbase takes it, oh really?

goldenwing.8473:

Broad paintbrush: “all T1 stacked, blob-centric servers only play for PPT and no one there knows how to fight or is skilled.”

Realistic photo: many good players on all servers (including T1) have a lot of experience from other games as well as GW2, enjoy fights and are skilled.

Balanced view: WvW players have different expectations about how they want to play their particular type of WvW.

That’s true.

Also there are many new players, who are “unskilled” compared to those who played in WvW for a long time already. They are not welcome in “skilled” GvG groups, and are considered rally-bots (they mostly are) and forbidden to even follow “skilled” groups. How will they learn and where they can improve, if not in WvW?

In a fairy tale, long time ago, WvW meant to be a battlefield of large scale fights – with thousands of players… actually less than 100 per team. Not a 15vs15 or so, “highly skilled” (…) groups fighting for… (not sure for what, for “fun” or “fame”), and excluding those who… are not good enough yet. But it’s not the players fault after all, WvW “evolved” into this, and those who could decide and change the fate of this game mode are… nowhere to be found. (Not the devs, they just are just workers…)

Delta.2093:

goldenwing.8473:

Broad paintbrush: “all T1 stacked, blob-centric servers only play for PPT and no one there knows how to fight or is skilled.”

Realistic photo: many good players on all servers (including T1) have a lot of experience from other games as well as GW2, enjoy fights and are skilled.

Balanced view: WvW players have different expectations about how they want to play their particular type of WvW.

That’s true.

Also there are many new players, who are “unskilled” compared to those who played in WvW for a long time already. They are not welcome in “skilled” GvG groups, and are considered rally-bots (they mostly are) and forbidden to even follow “skilled” groups. How will they learn and where they can improve, if not in WvW?

In a fairy tale, long time ago, WvW meant to be a battlefield of large scale fights – with thousands of players… actually less than 100 per team. Not a 15vs15 or so, “highly skilled” (…) groups fighting for… (not sure for what, for “fun” or “fame”), and excluding those who… are not good enough yet. But it’s not the players fault after all, WvW “evolved” into this, and those who could decide and change the fate of this game mode are… nowhere to be found. (Not the devs, they just are just workers…)

Everyone who started the game at one time or another was a rallybot for the most part. You learn by running with pug zergs where pug zergs fight other pug zergs or pug zergs fight guild groups. Or just tag along with a guild group and practice. Thats what I did. Who said this needs to be casual friendly either? GvG in WvW is very hardcore at this point in the game, especially on EU.

EFWinters.5421:

hholls.3278:

Just how exactly would you score around fights? 30 vs 15…… the 30 winning and gets more points? Would the small scale skirmishes around camps, dollies etc that people enjoy no longer be important removing any tactical elements?
Or would you herd everyone into guilds ?
Not saying the status quo is where I want to be but it would be impossible to score from “fights”.

You really can’t, and there’s no reason why they shouldn’t. “Skill groups” are some of the worst players in WvW I ever encounter and contribute absolutely nothing most of the time, coupled with having a horrible attitude towards WvW and everyone that’s not them.

Good, larger groups that have a focus on PPT are lovely to be around most of the time however. Good groups can and do have a large input on PPT, whether that group consist of two or 20 players. “Skill groups” purposefully ignore this fact in favor of “finding the good fights”, probably because they don’t really have any idea how WvW works and have no interest in learning.

PPT takes all of 3 seconds to “learn”. The idea that anyone doesn’t “have any idea how WvW works” is just laughable. Do you really think skill groups “don’t understand” that holding and upgrading keeps is beneficial to PPT? Or spending 2 hours trebbing to drain supply? Of course they understand, they just think it’s a pointless waste of time.

Do you like watching paint dry? No? You just don’t understand paint drying! If you took the time to learn how to watch paint dry, then you’d enjoy it, but you have no interest in learning how to watch paint dry do you? You contribute nothing to the paint-drying community, and your attitude is horrible. L2WPD noob.

This is quite aside from the fact that skill groups often achieve PPT for their server that no “true” wvwer could ever achieve. Skill groups routinely take fully upgraded keeps in the face of entire zones of defenders, something pug groups could never achieve. But then, 20 minutes later, the skill group doesn’t defend a tower, and PPTers QQ about them “contributing nothing”, conveniently forgetting the recently flipped T3 keep.

SkylightMoon.1980:

We all realize this and have for a while, its just time for the devs to. In terms of coverage, there are rarely any balanced matchups that give each server a fighting chance. For this reason, long ago did people learn to enjoy fights more than get worked up over hours of ppt herding that never was going to pay off anyway.

I think WvW should be redesigned around fights. People who wins fights gain PPT, instead of capping points. If this were true, and you could measure server skill by how well they fought, Blackgate would be mid-tier, Mag and PS would be #1, and things would feel a whole lot better.

I don’t know about you, but the devs have been eerily silent on the actual status of WvW. The entire game mode is more about fights now. Anyone who has gone to WvW know prime-time is littered with open field fights between pugs or guilds.

Even though the high tier guilds are getting burnt out because of the lack of WvW change or GvG addition and are beginning to leave the game because of this(bless you all, you have pioneered the meta of gw2 skill groups for so long, we understand).

Even amongst servers themselves, they all know who has the strongest fighting force. Blackgate and SFR know they arn’t collectively the most skilled fighters out there, they just have a lot of coverage. Actually, a lot of Tier 1 servers are like this and all know this. Guilds themselves represent their servers with their fierce fighting power.

If the dev’s take the time to read this, I figure you probably won’t want to remove WvW ppt but you have to understand that the ability to win Open Field fights, in some situations against forces 3 times your skill, is a better test of skill than PPT because of how unfair coverage is. You seriously have to take this into account if you want there to be any hope for WvW.

Empty maps on many servers are leaving us with nothing in PPT – give me a break.

This isn’t WvW, it’s a waiting room.

Anet’s secret scale of wah wah wah I’m better than you ego trips.

Militia → Blob Guilds → WvW guilds →Havoc Guilds→ Fights Guilds → Roamers

SFShinigami.2015:

Anet’s secret scale of wah wah wah I’m better than you ego trips.

Militia -> Blob Guilds -> WvW guilds ->Havoc Guilds-> Fights Guilds -> Roamers

Hmmm, why are militia before blob guilds?

ppt and fights go hand in hand. best way to get a fight is to knock on a t3 structure.

Hrmm Let me revise that a bit.

PUGs→Militia→Blob Guilds etc etc

Mostly organizational. Blob guilds will chest thump about their mindless blob. Militia cannot attach themselves as easily to something to chest thump properly.

Well they did make it so that finishing people off the ground gets you a lot of points.

That means ideally a good guild can kill a whole PUG blob and farm a lot of points.

In general, I think the system works. There are ways to do everything.

Deli.1302:

ppt and fights go hand in hand. best way to get a fight is to knock on a t3 structure.

Yeah, get fights against cannons and arrowcarts…
Would be awesome if they removed all siege and leave only rams.

TPvP is vastly closer to what GvG in GW1 was than the “let’s all hug and crash into each other” thing people call GvG these days.

As for the coverage thing, you’d be surprised where they’re mostly congregated. JQ didn’t win Season 2. We out coveraged TC.

I play for PPT=I’m on a winning server=My server has more coverage=We have a great WvW community

I play for fights=I’m on a losing server=My server has less coverage=We’re trying to keep our people from being recruited by higher servers.

Welcome to WvW

There is more people who care about win than care about fight
I was on a server avoiding the fight the night to get the higest tik possible and win the match up, nobody had a problem with that
For this server the night WvW is about ppt not fight

The server im playing now want to fight all the time and they dont really care about ppt, except some commanders cus they dont like lose wich is normal
For this server WvW is about more about fight than ppt

Server without fight lose the players who want to fight
Server without ppt lose the players who want to win their match up or just want to karmatrain

WvW is about ppt and fight
its not
WvW is about fight

Snach.2156:

Deli.1302:

ppt and fights go hand in hand. best way to get a fight is to knock on a t3 structure.

Yeah, get fights against cannons and arrowcarts…
Would be awesome if they removed all siege and leave only rams.

Those things are in the game because it’s NOT meant to be all about blobs of players slapping each other in an open field.

You might want a game mode designed around groups of players fighting each other in an open field for points, but Anet has not provided you with one so joining a game mode that’s clearly not designed this way then complaining that everyone keeps sieging up castles and holding objectives for the tick is ridiculous.

Objectives are important. They should remain important. Without objectives it’s just a deathmatch.

They introduced a deathmatch map in sPvP. Spoiler alert: It isn't very fun.

I get that PPT can be frustrating because individual players have very little control over things like coverage, but having the objectives there is better than not having them there, and fighting already does figure in with the bloodlust point per stomp.

A possible middle ground might be to make the bloodlust more important. At two or three points per stomp per bloodlust it’s still not going to attract zergs but it should become more active than achievement farmers and the occasional solo roamer.

The points would most apply to smaller scale fights too, as zergs and keep defenses would tend to see downed players killed by siege or zerg damage rather than stomps. Basically the kind of fights the OP wants.

Fights for the sake of fights alone is boring. Fights for the sake of an objective is much more interesting.

i like to play with strategy and thats how ive built, but unfortunately the PPT is a crummy system.
if you play for fights which i understand but there must be better games than Guild wars to fight GvG or PvP. Since Guild Wars is pretty bad for trying to make organised GvG.
I struggle to be interested in anything guild related in Guild Wars either because they dont seem neccesary or because the guilds have very little to give themselves identity.
All guilds feel the same to me on GW2 but then i guess everyone does try to play the same routine as each other.

Swamurabi.7890:

I play for PPT=I’m on a winning server=My server has more coverage=We have a great WvW community

I play for fights=I’m on a losing server=My server has less coverage=We’re trying to keep our people from being recruited by higher servers.

Welcome to WvW

All this is true and fair EXCEPT that you seem to believe that having a large population = “a great WvW community”

I would argue that the smaller populations have a tighter community, which is valued by many who actually merits this as the reason to stay T8 = “a great WvW community”

I’ll use this analogy… people enjoy living in big cities because there are lots of people, but people also value living in hick towns because they know all the people well. They can argue which is the better community, and they are all correct (measured by their own priorities)

My only beef with the PPT system is that it doesn’t reflect the amount of resources invested in structures and which side you capture structures from. Other than that it actually isn’t too bad.

For the record I think a WvW format based solely around fights would be a bit dull, but putting aside my personal opinion for a moment, the real problem here is populations. The much maligned PPT system is merely a symptom of that problem. It doesn’t matter which criteria you set for winning in WvW, a server with more players will always accomplish [insert goal here] more effectively than one with fewer players. Even if points in WvW were solely earned by winning fights, the server with the most players would almost certainly have the best kills/death ratio on average. Winning is primarily a function of numbers, not skill, and replacing “capture the most structures” with “kill the most players” doesn’t really change that.

Unless of course you’re talking about implementing a handicap system. But that’s a tough one to pull off if you want it to work properly, and even if successful that still doesn’t make the fights themselves any more balanced.

Darius.1430:

Swamurabi.7890:

I play for PPT=I’m on a winning server=My server has more coverage=We have a great WvW community

I play for fights=I’m on a losing server=My server has less coverage=We’re trying to keep our people from being recruited by higher servers.

Welcome to WvW

All this is true and fair EXCEPT that you seem to believe that having a large population = “a great WvW community”

I would argue that the smaller populations have a tighter community, which is valued by many who actually merits this as the reason to stay T8 = “a great WvW community”

I’ll use this analogy… people enjoy living in big cities because there are lots of people, but people also value living in hick towns because they know all the people well. They can argue which is the better community, and they are all correct (measured by their own priorities)

I’m just commenting about all the time I see posts by someone from a T1 server saying how “great their WvW comminity” is. It starts to sound like political talking points. I’m beginning to wonder if T1 war council meetings have a point where they say “whenever you post on GW2 forums about our server, make sure you mention how great our community is”

I think that is probably the next best option.

Unless they just abolish the server vs server idea and implement a color vs color vs color and just combine all like colors (IE faction based), the next best option would be to remove PPT.

It’d be interesting to see if players would start evening themselves out, because in essence, it’d be pointless to WvW in off hours by yourselves unless you care more about flipping stuff for rewards than actual fights.

It’s been said over and over a thousand times in the feedback threads: The current PPT system only reflects server population coverage. From a eSport perspective it’s a total failure. I think he dev know about the problem they just seem to have a very very small team dedicated to WvW so actual improvements come almost a year apart.

However you can still have fun, if your in a good guild and meet other good guilds on the battlefield it can be epic.

What they need to do to fix it is simple, make each kill count for 100 pts.

EFWinters.5421:

hholls.3278:

Just how exactly would you score around fights? 30 vs 15…… the 30 winning and gets more points? Would the small scale skirmishes around camps, dollies etc that people enjoy no longer be important removing any tactical elements?
Or would you herd everyone into guilds ?
Not saying the status quo is where I want to be but it would be impossible to score from “fights”.

You really can’t, and there’s no reason why they shouldn’t. “Skill groups” are some of the worst players in WvW I ever encounter and contribute absolutely nothing most of the time, coupled with having a horrible attitude towards WvW and everyone that’s not them.

Good, larger groups that have a focus on PPT are lovely to be around most of the time however. Good groups can and do have a large input on PPT, whether that group consist of two or 20 players. “Skill groups” purposefully ignore this fact in favor of “finding the good fights”, probably because they don’t really have any idea how WvW works and have no interest in learning.

Except that skill groups know exactly how the scoreboard works and that’s why they don’t care about PPT. “Focus on PPT” means doing a lot of things that some people find boring and pointless.

-running back and forth building seige
-paying for upgrades that can be lost in minutes
-sitting around half afk watching structures and siege
-running yaks
-running around fighting NPCs and doors to cap something before tick
-sitting on siege for 30mins hitting one button until a wall comes down
-sitting in a storm of arrow cart fire (see previous point)
-all this for some vague team
-all this to win nothing

If this is fun for you, then have at it but it sounds dreadful to me.

P.S the sPvP deathmatch map is a cramped mess of a map.

EFWinters.5421:

You really can’t, and there’s no reason why they shouldn’t. “Skill groups” are some of the worst players in WvW I ever encounter and contribute absolutely nothing most of the time, coupled with having a horrible attitude towards WvW and everyone that’s not them.
Good, larger groups that have a focus on PPT are lovely to be around most of the time however. Good groups can and do have a large input on PPT, whether that group consist of two or 20 players. “Skill groups” purposefully ignore this fact in favor of “finding the good fights”, probably because they don’t really have any idea how WvW works and have no interest in learning.

^^

Deli.1302:

Snach.2156:

Deli.1302:

ppt and fights go hand in hand. best way to get a fight is to knock on a t3 structure.

Yeah, get fights against cannons and arrowcarts…
Would be awesome if they removed all siege and leave only rams.

Those things are in the game because it’s NOT meant to be all about blobs of players slapping each other in an open field.

You might want a game mode designed around groups of players fighting each other in an open field for points, but Anet has not provided you with one so joining a game mode that’s clearly not designed this way then complaining that everyone keeps sieging up castles and holding objectives for the tick is ridiculous.

^^

I’m sure this has been suggested before: An instanced arena for GvG (no balance required). Use a subset (e.g. condensed/trimmed set) of the current maps (including EotM) which are randomly spawned when entering. Set a limit of 20 players, 30 players, 40 players each (pick a tier). Set a timer, at the end of 15 minutes, or 30 minutes, (again tiered), calculate the GvG points based on number of players and time <waves hands here mathematically>, take scored points (use multiplier or percentage) and add to PPT.

Means taking GvG off of the maps which will have a different impact on WvW. GvG battles will still contribute however.

Allows for balanced GvG fights.

Impacts ANet’s servers (for those instances) and requires investment.

/top of head simplistic post off

Implication of course is that GvG is still server vs server.

^^many have been asking for this for a while. Would be nice to free up spots & remove these attitudes from our maps so we can get down to organized wvw business…

For the love of god. I hope Anet does not implement OPs suggestion. At least not until the classes are balanced. All i can say is, if this goes through. There will be a kittenload of warping thieves all over the place. Lets not forget about the hacks that are going arond. With this system, this will only encourage more to fall to the darkside. Not like there is anything there to prevent it in the first place :/

Without the objectives to PPT, there would be no reason to fight. wvw is supposed to be a war. war is 24/7, there are objectives to attack and defend. It’s much more stressful to ppt. But it is a skillset to itself for those commanders and players that can manage a prolong siege against defended t3 structures. Not to mention some of the best fights we’ve had have been for a keep, tower, or the pug grindhouse of smc. running around in circles for a fight in bl might be fun for some but it’s also boring for others.

@OP:

Everyone who loses always says they are “only looking for fights”.

style.6173:

@OP:

Everyone who loses always says they are “only looking for fights”.

Makes sense, considering that if they cared about PPT more than the fights, they eventually move to the seasonal server stack.

Xillllix.3485:

What they need to do to fix it is simple, make each kill count for 100 pts.

80mans fighting 20 mans agree with you
20mans raid guild fighting 5 roamers agree with you
5 mans fighting 1 guy agree with you

The OP’s opinion is just that… his opinion. The reality is there is a big variety in the reasons people play wvw and what they like about wvw (or dislike for that matter).

To proclaim that across the board PPT is a waste of time or nobody cares about it just ignorant. There are hundreds of players that are very into the matchup competition and want to win their matchups. There are also hundreds of players that don’t care about the matchup competition and just want to win random fights. There isn’t anything illegitimate about either perspective.

My guess is most people fall somewhere in between. For my part, I am very into both aspects of wvw and I don’t view them as exclusive. PPT is the big picture for me. Wvw is a competition between servers, with a scoreboard, and I prefer to see my team winning on that scoreboard. So I like to involve myself with a guild that is trying to make an impact there.

I am also very into the fights. I wouldn’t care about the PPT if it was just a matter of PvDoor all the time. When my guild is out there trying to get points for our server, we are fighting against other guilds to accomplish it and that’s what I find the most entertaining. They want this keep and so do we and there is going to be a big fight over who gets it.

Hvaran.6327:

check on youtube –
GW2 Truth/Anet/Devs/WvW/ESport/GVG/Leaks/Reveals

Dev:“WvW is not about GvG”
Sac:“Wvw IS about GVG”

Thanks for posting this man.

Totally supporting you. I got burned out and bored of ppt a long time ago already.
To all who reading and think it’s a good minds, please support this thread.

I would like to thank you for ‘linking’ this video.
FINALLY, I now understand why wvw gets no love, no money, & little dev attention. (literally none at all now)
This has helped me a lot.
I do however, disagree with op, wvw is not mainly about fights.
That’s personal opinion from someone who hasn’t been given their desired game mode in a game.
I like a little bit of everything myself, & we’re not lesser life forms because we use siege… They wouldn’t have made siege so prominent in their design if it wasn’t meant to be used & enjoyed.
However, I can see now where things are heading with gw2. And while I don’t like where they are heading, I do like knowing what’s going on & why.
Yes, it’s long, yes the vid is a bit of a rant at times, but it certainly brings something to light that I did not know.
Also, clicking on the links is quite interesting.

Again, ty Hvaran
*edited to interject my own opinion >.>

JoeYl.4609:

Xillllix.3485:

What they need to do to fix it is simple, make each kill count for 100 pts.

80mans fighting 20 mans agree with you
20mans raid guild fighting 5 roamers agree with you
5 mans fighting 1 guy agree with you

It’s the same with coverage, except now you would get more points if you defeated a group larger than you.

20 man guild defeating 50 man blob also agrees with me, so does the person doing 1 vs 1. You just gotta organize.

WvW has always been about points. I like that playstyle, personally. The entire game mode is NOT about fights. It just seems that way to you.

Armies (blobs) milling about in the middle of the field accomplish nothing in the game or real life, for that matter. Its always been about the taking and holding of territory and resources.

I would really hate to see the OP’s version of WvW come about.

thaooo.5320:

Camelot unchained, what a glorious day that will be.

Btw, low tiers don’t even know what GvG is, let alone skill groups.

CU is years away and unproven. Even now, I predict massive whining in CU’ s forums….cause thats just the new norm for some gamers.