Guild Wars 2

I agree that WvW is a shadow of what it should be. The really disgusting thing is that it’s the best the games developer community has to offer.

Svarty.8019:

I agree that WvW is a shadow of what it should be. The really disgusting thing is that it’s the best the games developer community has to offer.

“Disgusting”….. really… disgusting? Exaggerate much?

[quote=4095177;Raf.1078:]

OP, Presenting a personal opinion as a fact can achieve lively debate but seldom much else.

Pretending superiority or casting aspersions around generally just means many people will focus on the bad behaviour rather than the topic.

IMHO, if you had simply posted “I would like a non PPT version of WvW to play”, you may have achieved more than petulant foot stamping and trash talk.

Good luck.

PS, I would happily try a non ppt version of wvw if a game world presented it.

could not disagree more with the OP…

for starters, SFR are full of very skilled pugs. 90% of the time there is only a 2 hour window in the morning when SFR have superior numbers on the map. I’ve played on FSP, RoS, and US IoJ….

On RoS there were some good small skirmish fights with GH but other than their main rival server at the time I was on… the other fights were not that spectacular.

FSP was a joke. Lots of guilds living for the fight, sometimes arguing amongst themselves not achieving much at all, and fighting really poor opposition. Hand on heart… I reduced a 20+ zerg to 8 people on my own… and another time me and one other person wiped a guild raid…. on RoS I took SM with 5 ppl… on FSP I had the lord down in SM with 5 ppl during prime-time and very nearly got the cap before we were wiped by the blob.

I solo roam a lot… On SFR I get to fight skilled opposition when we are facing Riverside and Kodash… and even JS have some very skilled players who have given me a really good fight. I can’t get that in the lower leagues.

WvW has to be based around points because without the point tick you end up with EotM.

The game requires a gvg and solo fight arena… but do not get these confused with wvw. The thing that makes wvw awesome is taking and defending keeps against stiff opposition. I am not talking pvd rubbish… I am talking about 2-5 hours of intense fighting with siege, zergs, solo roamers picking off strays in order to plant your flag in a borderland garrison and possibly a ebg keep. All the other things such as supply camps, towers, bay, hills, SM etc… are merely objectives to help you with that big fight for garrison or keep – either providing the supply for siege or a place to treb from or a place in which to shorten the distance required to move in for the attack or to prevent the enemy from moving in on the attack.

Open field blob fights in wvw are as boring as pvd. Small skirmish fights and 1v1 fights are fun as they test skill but the real fun is that big fight for that all important objective.

I don’t know about the US bads you’re playing with OP but SFR got to nr.1 by having skilled pugs and by winning fights.

Get your facts straight before making useless threads on subjects you don’t know about.

Nymph of Meliai.6739:

could not disagree more with the OP…

for starters, SFR are full of very skilled pugs. 90% of the time there is only a 2 hour window in the morning when SFR have superior numbers on the map. I’ve played on FSP, RoS, and US IoJ….

On RoS there were some good small skirmish fights with GH but other than their main rival server at the time I was on… the other fights were not that spectacular.

FSP was a joke. Lots of guilds living for the fight, sometimes arguing amongst themselves not achieving much at all, and fighting really poor opposition. Hand on heart… I reduced a 20+ zerg to 8 people on my own… and another time me and one other person wiped a guild raid…. on RoS I took SM with 5 ppl… on FSP I had the lord down in SM with 5 ppl during prime-time and very nearly got the cap before we were wiped by the blob.

I solo roam a lot… On SFR I get to fight skilled opposition when we are facing Riverside and Kodash… and even JS have some very skilled players who have given me a really good fight. I can’t get that in the lower leagues.

WvW has to be based around points because without the point tick you end up with EotM.

The game requires a gvg and solo fight arena… but do not get these confused with wvw. The thing that makes wvw awesome is taking and defending keeps against stiff opposition. I am not talking pvd rubbish… I am talking about 2-5 hours of intense fighting with siege, zergs, solo roamers picking off strays in order to plant your flag in a borderland garrison and possibly a ebg keep. All the other things such as supply camps, towers, bay, hills, SM etc… are merely objectives to help you with that big fight for garrison or keep – either providing the supply for siege or a place to treb from or a place in which to shorten the distance required to move in for the attack or to prevent the enemy from moving in on the attack.

Open field blob fights in wvw are as boring as pvd. Small skirmish fights and 1v1 fights are fun as they test skill but the real fun is that big fight for that all important objective.

SFR is currently ticking almost twice what their other opponents are in the current matchups. You can say SFR is super skilled but can’t prove it because there is no system is place ot say this. Currently in the WvW system, SFR may be ranked higher than a majority of the other servers but that proves nothing about your servers skill, means you have more people. True skill is determined much easier when things are balanced which rarely happens. Your opponents can probably destroy you open field with 1/4th your number but can’t beat you ppt because of their population.

KICKER.3874:

I don’t know about the US bads you’re playing with OP but SFR got to nr.1 by having skilled pugs and by winning fights.

Get your facts straight before making useless threads on subjects you don’t know about.

With even numbers your commanders and their pug blobs would still lose to other servers because of their skilled guild groups lol. SFR has a huge population, sorry but thats why you are high ranked.

KICKER.3874:

I don’t know about the US bads you’re playing with OP but SFR got to nr.1 by having skilled pugs and by winning fights.

Get your facts straight before making useless threads on subjects you don’t know about.

I still don’t how people can confuse “skilled pugs” with superior coverage. Please, SFR gets wiped all the time. The only reason they win is because they can have 80 people online when the other servers have 10.

KICKER.3874:

I don’t know about the US bads you’re playing with OP but SFR got to nr.1 by having skilled pugs and by winning fights.

Get your facts straight before making useless threads on subjects you don’t know about.

Can I ask honest question? Are you new to WvW?
I won’t comment on skill.
But however much skill your sever have, if you don’t have coverage and your opponents have it, you can’t win.

I would also like to point out that Desolation, not SFR, is ranked 1 EU. I don’t however see anybody saying that Desolation is the most skilled server out there, or that it has the best fighters, or that Deso pugs are the best trained. Surely however, if Deso is in first place, they all have to be the best fighters in the game, because let’s be honest here, coverage has nothing to do with PPT.

i play for fight = i want to be in the top tier server = wtf, have to maintain ppt to ensure server is in top tier = nvm let the ppt scrubs carry me in the top server, i’ll just play for fight.

welcome to top tier server, welcome to WvW

I was talking about how SFR “got to nr.1” not about who is nr1 now for the first time ever since yesterday or who has the most bandwagoners right now.

Y’all need to l2read.

SkylightMoon.2098:

KICKER.3874:

I don’t know about the US bads you’re playing with OP but SFR got to nr.1 by having skilled pugs and by winning fights.

Get your facts straight before making useless threads on subjects you don’t know about.

With even numbers your commanders and their pug blobs would still lose to other servers because of their skilled guild groups lol. SFR has a huge population, sorry but thats why you are high ranked.

SFR got to the top with a medium server and it was only the bandwagoners from the first tournament that tipped it to a heavily populated server.

SFR still has quite a few of the players who helped it get to the top in the first place.

And there are very few servers who could beat an SFR pug zerg of equal numbers in open field competition let alone a SFR guild raid. You seem to forget that SFR is primarily a wvw server and has always been so. The majority of SFR players play wvw and nothing else and they play wvw hardcore.

So basically, you do not know what you are talking about.

However… wvw is not supposed to be and is not about open field fights.

How about this:
-Every kill awards a certain number of points. If that server has minor bloodlust every kill awards 1 point, major awards 2 points, and superior awards 3 points.
-Stomps award twice as many points (2,4,6 for each type of bloodlust)
-Remaining PPT system remains unchanged

I think this would give WvW an entirely new style of play. Top servers would need to have ALL of their players on board to be successful. I also think this would help to reduce blobbing as guild groups would have the ability to significantly influence the PPT while still doing their open field fighting. This would also help roamers as it would give them an important objective (bloodlust ruins).

TheLargeUnit.2793:

How about this:
-Every kill awards a certain number of points. If that server has minor bloodlust every kill awards 1 point, major awards 2 points, and superior awards 3 points.
-Stomps award twice as many points (2,4,6 for each type of bloodlust)
-Remaining PPT system remains unchanged

I think this would give WvW an entirely new style of play. Top servers would need to have ALL of their players on board to be successful. I also think this would help to reduce blobbing as guild groups would have the ability to significantly influence the PPT while still doing their open field fighting. This would also help roamers as it would give them an important objective (bloodlust ruins).

I had the same thought…but there is the point when people from 2 servers can caount as "killers’ of a kid from 3rd server, so it will count to them depending on bloodlust, not sure if people won’t whine about that and it can cause people to actually really avoid fights. And alot of times coverage and omni-blobing will win again. It’s a good idea but it need more brainstorming atm..

Nymph of Meliai.6739:

SkylightMoon.2098:

KICKER.3874:

I don’t know about the US bads you’re playing with OP but SFR got to nr.1 by having skilled pugs and by winning fights.

Get your facts straight before making useless threads on subjects you don’t know about.

With even numbers your commanders and their pug blobs would still lose to other servers because of their skilled guild groups lol. SFR has a huge population, sorry but thats why you are high ranked.

SFR got to the top with a medium server and it was only the bandwagoners from the first tournament that tipped it to a heavily populated server.

SFR still has quite a few of the players who helped it get to the top in the first place.

And there are very few servers who could beat an SFR pug zerg of equal numbers in open field competition let alone a SFR guild raid. You seem to forget that SFR is primarily a wvw server and has always been so. The majority of SFR players play wvw and nothing else and they play wvw hardcore.

So basically, you do not know what you are talking about.

However… wvw is not supposed to be and is not about open field fights.

When I’ve stopped laughing at the above….. SFR are like anyone else they win fights and lose fights …plenty of them….your pug groups are like anyone elses sometimes good sometimes not so..You are far from super skilled you got to no 1 because of numbers/coverage just as anyone else does .
I’ve WvW since day 1 fought against most servers in EU so I do know what I’m saying.

Getting pretty sick of jealous scrubs trying to pretend they know things.

Pro tip: WvW does not = EB only

Before the Anet fail that was transfer promoting season before each wvw tournament, we stayed nr.1 for a long time without playing PPT, just playing for fights and destroying everyone, not even scouting, sieging or even defending much.

Our randoms didn’t even need commander, they would just take the all the borderlands in small groups of friends, with guild raids taking sieged-up keeps.

Vizunah was the first to beat us with coverage and PPT game and they did a good job at it. Now many servers are stacked, including us, and we have to play differently a bit, but all true SFR know why we got nr.1 in the first place.

I never thought I’d see the day where an EU PPT chest thumping argument would outshine an NA PPT chest thumping argument.

Hvaran.6327:

TheLargeUnit.2793:

How about this:
-Every kill awards a certain number of points. If that server has minor bloodlust every kill awards 1 point, major awards 2 points, and superior awards 3 points.
-Stomps award twice as many points (2,4,6 for each type of bloodlust)
-Remaining PPT system remains unchanged

I think this would give WvW an entirely new style of play. Top servers would need to have ALL of their players on board to be successful. I also think this would help to reduce blobbing as guild groups would have the ability to significantly influence the PPT while still doing their open field fighting. This would also help roamers as it would give them an important objective (bloodlust ruins).

I had the same thought…but there is the point when people from 2 servers can caount as "killers’ of a kid from 3rd server, so it will count to them depending on bloodlust, not sure if people won’t whine about that and it can cause people to actually really avoid fights. And alot of times coverage and omni-blobing will win again. It’s a good idea but it need more brainstorming atm..

Yeah sounds to me like it would cause people to avoid fights unless they greatly outnumbered the other group.

The truth is that this topic is far behind the times. Good guilds stopped ppting a long time ago. Present day, not only are they bored of ppt, they are bored of the pug farming and blobbing that constitutes 99% of an organized raid.

The only interesting thing to do in this game is GvG. The level of player support for such an unsupported game mode is a testament to how sophisticated the combat system and current meta really is. It’s a shame that neither this nor any other type of guild-centric activity was ever emphasized by Anet.

Facet.5914:

The truth is that this topic is far behind the times. Good guilds stopped ppting a long time ago. Present day, not only are they bored of ppt, they are bored of the pug farming and blobbing that constitutes 99% of an organized raid.

The only interesting thing to do in this game is GvG. The level of player support for such an unsupported game mode is a testament to how sophisticated the combat system and current meta really is. It’s a shame that neither this nor any other type of guild-centric activity was ever emphasized by Anet.

So only “good guilds” GvG?…just…lol

There’s been a lot of talk here about coverage vs. skill. The way to measure the average skill of a world is by dividing the score by the units of time invested to achieve it.

If one world’s group of players spend 4,000 hours to score 150,000 points and another spends 2,000 hours to score the same 150,000 points, then the second world is clearly more skilled, right? But we can’t tell that from the info ANet gives us today. Yes, obviously, this only tells us who is (mostly) better at PPT right now, but it’s a start.

I have a proposal up about this here: [Suggestion] Publishing WvW Player Hours

beporter.9254:

There’s been a lot of talk here about coverage vs. skill. The way to measure the average skill of a world is by dividing the score by the units of time invested to achieve it.

If one world’s group of players spend 4,000 hours to score 150,000 points and another spends 2,000 hours to score the same 150,000 points, then the second world is clearly more skilled, right? But we can’t tell that from the info ANet gives us today. yes, obviously, this only tells us who is (mostly) better at PPT right now, but it’s a start.

I have a proposal up about this here: [Suggestion] Publishing WvW Player Hours

Thats actually a pretty good idea. Thats probably one of the better(best) solutions Ive heard. Dno why Anet haven’t taken a look at this. Im gonna try to get this idea out there for you more, along with some other things.

Facet.5914:

The truth is that this topic is far behind the times. Good guilds stopped ppting a long time ago. Present day, not only are they bored of ppt, they are bored of the pug farming and blobbing that constitutes 99% of an organized raid.

The only interesting thing to do in this game is GvG. The level of player support for such an unsupported game mode is a testament to how sophisticated the combat system and current meta really is. It’s a shame that neither this nor any other type of guild-centric activity was ever emphasized by Anet.

GvG is as boring as pvd… 9/10 times it comes down to how many warriors and guardians you have in your party.

The only fun thing in wvw is taking a garrison on a borderland that is defended or defending a garrison against an attack. And on ebg then it is taking an enemy keep or defending your keep. Towers, bay, SM, hills, camps… are merely stepping stones to the real battle. A good battle that lasts hours not minutes and involves everyone calling everyone to help and is even better if the third server joins in too… involves siege, guilds, zergs, blobs, solo roamers – everything the game has to offer…. wave after wave and you are absolutely shattered when it is finally all over. Does not matter if you are defending or attacking… it offers by far the best fights.

That is the only fun thing in the entire game and it has always been the number 1 most fun thing in the game… in the past the epic bay and hills battles were also great but they are not so much these days. Even the epic garrison and keep fights tend to only be once or twice a week.

Nymph of Meliai.6739:

GvG is as boring as pvd… 9/10 times it comes down to how many warriors and guardians you have in your party.

Guardians and warriors aren’t even close to the most important players in a gvg. Most fights are won or lost by the actions of thieves, mesmers and eles.

Nymph of Meliai.6739:

Facet.5914:

The truth is that this topic is far behind the times. Good guilds stopped ppting a long time ago. Present day, not only are they bored of ppt, they are bored of the pug farming and blobbing that constitutes 99% of an organized raid.

The only interesting thing to do in this game is GvG. The level of player support for such an unsupported game mode is a testament to how sophisticated the combat system and current meta really is. It’s a shame that neither this nor any other type of guild-centric activity was ever emphasized by Anet.

GvG is as boring as pvd… 9/10 times it comes down to how many warriors and guardians you have in your party.

The only fun thing in wvw is taking a garrison on a borderland that is defended or defending a garrison against an attack. And on ebg then it is taking an enemy keep or defending your keep. Towers, bay, SM, hills, camps… are merely stepping stones to the real battle. A good battle that lasts hours not minutes and involves everyone calling everyone to help and is even better if the third server joins in too… involves siege, guilds, zergs, blobs, solo roamers – everything the game has to offer…. wave after wave and you are absolutely shattered when it is finally all over. Does not matter if you are defending or attacking… it offers by far the best fights.

That is the only fun thing in the entire game and it has always been the number 1 most fun thing in the game… in the past the epic bay and hills battles were also great but they are not so much these days. Even the epic garrison and keep fights tend to only be once or twice a week.

I guess you haven’t played or watched many GvG’s…

Nymph of Meliai.6739:

Facet.5914:

The truth is that this topic is far behind the times. Good guilds stopped ppting a long time ago. Present day, not only are they bored of ppt, they are bored of the pug farming and blobbing that constitutes 99% of an organized raid.

The only interesting thing to do in this game is GvG. The level of player support for such an unsupported game mode is a testament to how sophisticated the combat system and current meta really is. It’s a shame that neither this nor any other type of guild-centric activity was ever emphasized by Anet.

GvG is as boring as pvd… 9/10 times it comes down to how many warriors and guardians you have in your party.

The only fun thing in wvw is taking a garrison on a borderland that is defended or defending a garrison against an attack. And on ebg then it is taking an enemy keep or defending your keep. Towers, bay, SM, hills, camps… are merely stepping stones to the real battle. A good battle that lasts hours not minutes and involves everyone calling everyone to help and is even better if the third server joins in too… involves siege, guilds, zergs, blobs, solo roamers – everything the game has to offer…. wave after wave and you are absolutely shattered when it is finally all over. Does not matter if you are defending or attacking… it offers by far the best fights.

That is the only fun thing in the entire game and it has always been the number 1 most fun thing in the game… in the past the epic bay and hills battles were also great but they are not so much these days. Even the epic garrison and keep fights tend to only be once or twice a week.

Well…… that’s.. just like… your opinion….. man….

CyRuS.6915:

Svarty.8019:

I agree that WvW is a shadow of what it should be. The really disgusting thing is that it’s the best the games developer community has to offer.

“Disgusting”….. really… disgusting? Exaggerate much?

Yes. I’m especially disgusted that the only way to get a realm-play game made, after many previous games have proved that this game-mode is popular, is to get it Kickstartered. It’s hard to believe that in an industry that prides itself on it’s supposed creativity and passion they wouldn’t be able to cater to this want.

If you got a fairly equal 3 server tier like T1 NA, playing competitive PPT is quite thrilling. It only happens once in a blue moon though.

We have to be all willing to push that week. Between season 1 and season 2 there was this weird dynamic where bg would push a week while we were relaxing/training/etc and then we’d swap roles. Was really eerie.

i’m going to disagree…slightly. fighting well supports ppt. it’s quite possible to balance both. most guilds i’ve been in have outstanding wvw players that not only are able to support the overall effort, but turn some enemy zergs inside out.

I agree with OP. Wiping blobs double your size should have some impact on ppt.

Kills should reward more ppt than it does now. It should be proportionate to the amount of current players on the map. Less players get more points per kill.

I think towers and keeps should stay the same though in terms of ppt, but defending a tower should be rewarding. Maybe a WvW chest every 2.5 minutes if the keep is contested for an entire 2.5 minutes and you repaired or anti-sieged. 1min for towers. This includes taps. This gives some incentive to defend and get loot even if you didn’t wipe them.

On second thought in terms of keeps and towers ppt, I think tick should be lower. from 15 (?) minutes to 6 ish minutes.

Wiping twice your numbers would benefit your ppt as the man power you aren’t using for that fight is off somewhere else dealing with something else, presumably capturing a tower uninhibited or something. If you don’t have anybody else then you’re hindering their ppt because they have to devote more man power to keeping you in check instead of going out and capping something.

CyRuS.6915:

Svarty.8019:

I agree that WvW is a shadow of what it should be. The really disgusting thing is that it’s the best the games developer community has to offer.

“Disgusting”….. really… disgusting? Exaggerate much?

Appropos – looking at some “past” games being much better in some ways – yes, it’s becoming a bit disgusting.

One person said it best:

If the errors in WvW were gem store based, WvW would be taken offline and it would be fixed that day.

Bubby.6475:

I agree with OP. Wiping blobs double your size should have some impact on ppt.

Kills should reward more ppt than it does now. It should be proportionate to the amount of current players on the map. Less players get more points per kill.

I think towers and keeps should stay the same though in terms of ppt, but defending a tower should be rewarding. Maybe a WvW chest every 2.5 minutes if the keep is contested for an entire 2.5 minutes and you repaired or anti-sieged. 1min for towers. This includes taps. This gives some incentive to defend and get loot even if you didn’t wipe them.

On second thought in terms of keeps and towers ppt, I think tick should be lower. from 15 (?) minutes to 6 ish minutes.

Ticks used to be every 5 minutes and they raised it to 15 so servers who capped entire maps during off hours only got 1/3 of the score for doing so.

Also, points from stomps make up ~30% of your score. See: http://www.gw2score.com/currentscore/hidden_points_percent/desc During important matchups, like the last week between JQ/TC/SoS, that number rose to 40%+ during the first few days when the matchup was close and people were especially trying for stomps.

If they make points from stomps worth any more, or give points for kills, then I think it would discourage people from defending in outmanned situations because if they die it would be worse than just not defending at all.

There was a point on reset night where 56% of JQs points were non-ppt. It should be noted that these points are made up of stomps, sentries and yak killings/escorts so the bloodlust points can never been pinpointed exactly.

Blix.8021:

Ticks used to be every 5 minutes and they raised it to 15 so servers who capped entire maps during off hours only got 1/3 of the score for doing so.

Also, points from stomps make up ~30% of your score. See: http://www.gw2score.com/currentscore/hidden_points_percent/desc During important matchups, like the last week between JQ/TC/SoS, that number rose to 40%+ during the first few days when the matchup was close and people were especially trying for stomps.

If they make points from stomps worth any more, or give points for kills, then I think it would discourage people from defending in outmanned situations because if they die it would be worse than just not defending at all.

Makes me wonder how WvW would change if the tick was half hour or even one hour. Intense fights at camps 5 min pre tick? People preparing towers for defending against tick flip, more defense?

SkylightMoon.1980:

We all realize this and have for a while, its just time for the devs to. In terms of coverage, there are rarely any balanced matchups that give each server a fighting chance. For this reason, long ago did people learn to enjoy fights more than get worked up over hours of ppt herding that never was going to pay off anyway.

I think WvW should be redesigned around fights. People who wins fights gain PPT, instead of capping points. If this were true, and you could measure server skill by how well they fought, Blackgate would be mid-tier, Mag and PS would be #1, and things would feel a whole lot better.

I don’t know about you, but the devs have been eerily silent on the actual status of WvW. The entire game mode is more about fights now. Anyone who has gone to WvW know prime-time is littered with open field fights between pugs or guilds.

Even though the high tier guilds are getting burnt out because of the lack of WvW change or GvG addition and are beginning to leave the game because of this(bless you all, you have pioneered the meta of gw2 skill groups for so long, we understand).

Even amongst servers themselves, they all know who has the strongest fighting force. Blackgate and SFR know they arn’t collectively the most skilled fighters out there, they just have a lot of coverage. Actually, a lot of Tier 1 servers are like this and all know this. Guilds themselves represent their servers with their fierce fighting power.

If the dev’s take the time to read this, I figure you probably won’t want to remove WvW ppt but you have to understand that the ability to win Open Field fights, in some situations against forces 3 times your skill, is a better test of skill than PPT because of how unfair coverage is. You seriously have to take this into account if you want there to be any hope for WvW.

Well , your point is not valid at all
How you define wich is the real : prime time : bassed on the country you live in ?
Russian guilds : end raids at 8 GTM -9 GTM MAX
Spain /PT guilds start raids at 9GTM -10 GTM
Actualy the T1 servers are in T1 because an organized comunity.
Claiming things regarding 1 of other server without any clue what is happening is lame wich makes your post even more invalid :
As an example would be
Desolation : Top sPvP /tPvP server .Should have most skilled players on Europe or am i wrong ?
Vs
SFR : Bandwagoner bloby / unskilled server, Pvdor
attached screen from thursday ( last in season 2)

So , wich is the real prime time, when www should end? Should players that work at your prime time, or sleep at your prime time not play this game?
Should guilds be limited to 20 players, or maps should be limited to 20 players.
Should others log on same time with you , or log off same time ? Meh i am confused

Svarty.8019:

CyRuS.6915:

Svarty.8019:

I agree that WvW is a shadow of what it should be. The really disgusting thing is that it’s the best the games developer community has to offer.

“Disgusting”….. really… disgusting? Exaggerate much?

Yes. I’m especially disgusted that the only way to get a realm-play game made, after many previous games have proved that this game-mode is popular, is to get it Kickstartered. It’s hard to believe that in an industry that prides itself on it’s supposed creativity and passion they wouldn’t be able to cater to this want.

I think the problem is that it is popular at first. And this is because of expectations.

That is to say it sounds like a great, fun idea – and it is. But it just doesn’t seem to work out in practice.

I think the main problem stem from population disparity and not the game mode per se.

GW2 must be getting a lot of new players still…That is the only reason why I could ever think anyone would still believe that:

A. Rank has anything to do with skill
B. PPT is anything but an asinine metric that measures population more than anything else.

King Amadaeus.8619:

GW2 must be getting a lot of new players still…That is the only reason why I could ever think anyone would still believe that:

A. Rank has anything to do with skill
B. PPT is anything but an asinine metric that measures population more than anything else.

If you think PPT is “asinine” why would you even be here? PPT is how the wvw competition is scored. Capping and holding territory is what this part of the game is designed around. If you don’t like it, you’re clearly playing the wrong game.

CyRuS.6915:

King Amadaeus.8619:

GW2 must be getting a lot of new players still…That is the only reason why I could ever think anyone would still believe that:

A. Rank has anything to do with skill
B. PPT is anything but an asinine metric that measures population more than anything else.

If you think PPT is “asinine” why would you even be here? PPT is how the wvw competition is scored. Capping and holding territory is what this part of the game is designed around. If you don’t like it, you’re clearly playing the wrong game.

Look at you new boots! PPT is the epitome of asinine. Coverage is the name of the game in regards to PPT, so coverage = “wins”. So if your server cluster does not have coverage: you do not win.

Notice the word skill appears no where in there. I am here to kill players in an open field environment. I do not mind that some of them still feel that PPT is “important”, because those are some of the people I am filling my bags with.

Fights on the other hand can be (if properly done) independent of coverage, and therefore playing for fights can be done without regard for PPT/“winning” on the scoreboard. I am not naive enough to think that there are more people playing for fights than PPT, but I am not stupid enough to deny that the difference is much closer to the middle than it was even 1 year ago.

Please if you think PPT matters, you should post what server you are from and how much playtime you have. Because I would highly doubt anyone with significant playtime thinks PPT is a useful metric that relates anything other than coverage.

King Amadaeus.8619:

CyRuS.6915:

King Amadaeus.8619:

GW2 must be getting a lot of new players still…That is the only reason why I could ever think anyone would still believe that:

A. Rank has anything to do with skill
B. PPT is anything but an asinine metric that measures population more than anything else.

If you think PPT is “asinine” why would you even be here? PPT is how the wvw competition is scored. Capping and holding territory is what this part of the game is designed around. If you don’t like it, you’re clearly playing the wrong game.

Look at you new boots! PPT is the epitome of asinine. Coverage is the name of the game in regards to PPT, so coverage = “wins”. So if your server cluster does not have coverage: you do not win.

Notice the word skill appears no where in there. I am here to kill players in an open field environment. I do not mind that some of them still feel that PPT is “important”, because those are some of the people I am filling my bags with.

Fights on the other hand can be (if properly done) independent of coverage, and therefore playing for fights can be done without regard for PPT/“winning” on the scoreboard. I am not naive enough to think that there are more people playing for fights than PPT, but I am not stupid enough to deny that the difference is much closer to the middle than it was even 1 year ago.

Please if you think PPT matters, you should post what server you are from and how much playtime you have. Because I would highly doubt anyone with significant playtime thinks PPT is a useful metric that relates anything other than coverage.

I didn’t make any statements about whether or not I believe it is a useful metric. My point was that clearly the scoreboard (and being on top of it) is what the wvw game format is about. So, with that said, if you hate it so much, what are you doing here? If I thought it sucked or that it was “asinine” I would just go play something else instead of griping about how i wish the game was about something it isn’t.

atheria.2837:

CyRuS.6915:

Svarty.8019:

I agree that WvW is a shadow of what it should be. The really disgusting thing is that it’s the best the games developer community has to offer.

“Disgusting”….. really… disgusting? Exaggerate much?

Appropos – looking at some “past” games being much better in some ways – yes, it’s becoming a bit disgusting.

One person said it best:

If the errors in WvW were gem store based, WvW would be taken offline and it would be fixed that day.

To expand on my previous statement, I am of the firm belief that many of the important decisions regarding games of this genre (realm-based battle MMOs, not just GW2) are made by people who have little passion for it and few qualifications/little experience or competence in it.

I could even go further and state that gross mismanagement on a truly massive scale is probably more the norm than not – as evidenced by CCP: http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jun/05/world-of-darkness-the-inside-story-mmo-ccp-white-wolf

CyRuS.6915:

King Amadaeus.8619:

CyRuS.6915:

King Amadaeus.8619:

GW2 must be getting a lot of new players still…That is the only reason why I could ever think anyone would still believe that:

A. Rank has anything to do with skill
B. PPT is anything but an asinine metric that measures population more than anything else.

If you think PPT is “asinine” why would you even be here? PPT is how the wvw competition is scored. Capping and holding territory is what this part of the game is designed around. If you don’t like it, you’re clearly playing the wrong game.

Look at you new boots! PPT is the epitome of asinine. Coverage is the name of the game in regards to PPT, so coverage = “wins”. So if your server cluster does not have coverage: you do not win.

Notice the word skill appears no where in there. I am here to kill players in an open field environment. I do not mind that some of them still feel that PPT is “important”, because those are some of the people I am filling my bags with.

Fights on the other hand can be (if properly done) independent of coverage, and therefore playing for fights can be done without regard for PPT/“winning” on the scoreboard. I am not naive enough to think that there are more people playing for fights than PPT, but I am not stupid enough to deny that the difference is much closer to the middle than it was even 1 year ago.

Please if you think PPT matters, you should post what server you are from and how much playtime you have. Because I would highly doubt anyone with significant playtime thinks PPT is a useful metric that relates anything other than coverage.

I didn’t make any statements about whether or not I believe it is a useful metric. My point was that clearly the scoreboard (and being on top of it) is what the wvw game format is about. So, with that said, if you hate it so much, what are you doing here? If I thought it sucked or that it was “asinine” I would just go play something else instead of griping about how i wish the game was about something it isn’t.

PPT is far beyond the only thing wvw is about. If he likes the fights and the pvp game mechanics, why would he leave just because he doesn’t give a dam about ppt?

yanniell.1236:

CyRuS.6915:

King Amadaeus.8619:

CyRuS.6915:

King Amadaeus.8619:

GW2 must be getting a lot of new players still…That is the only reason why I could ever think anyone would still believe that:

A. Rank has anything to do with skill
B. PPT is anything but an asinine metric that measures population more than anything else.

If you think PPT is “asinine” why would you even be here? PPT is how the wvw competition is scored. Capping and holding territory is what this part of the game is designed around. If you don’t like it, you’re clearly playing the wrong game.

Look at you new boots! PPT is the epitome of asinine. Coverage is the name of the game in regards to PPT, so coverage = “wins”. So if your server cluster does not have coverage: you do not win.

Notice the word skill appears no where in there. I am here to kill players in an open field environment. I do not mind that some of them still feel that PPT is “important”, because those are some of the people I am filling my bags with.

Fights on the other hand can be (if properly done) independent of coverage, and therefore playing for fights can be done without regard for PPT/“winning” on the scoreboard. I am not naive enough to think that there are more people playing for fights than PPT, but I am not stupid enough to deny that the difference is much closer to the middle than it was even 1 year ago.

Please if you think PPT matters, you should post what server you are from and how much playtime you have. Because I would highly doubt anyone with significant playtime thinks PPT is a useful metric that relates anything other than coverage.

I didn’t make any statements about whether or not I believe it is a useful metric. My point was that clearly the scoreboard (and being on top of it) is what the wvw game format is about. So, with that said, if you hate it so much, what are you doing here? If I thought it sucked or that it was “asinine” I would just go play something else instead of griping about how i wish the game was about something it isn’t.

PPT is far beyond the only thing wvw is about. If he likes the fights and the pvp game mechanics, why would he leave just because he doesn’t give a dam about ppt?

Lol I didn’t say “PPT is the only thing wvw is about” so relax man. I guess my point was that clearly the devs intended the scoreboard to be a central component of the format. Obviously, the weekly matchup competition was intended to be the main focus of the wvw format and it seems that isn’t going to change. If that really bothered me as much as it seems to bother a few people in here, I probably wouldn’t play in wvw (I would look for something that lines up more with what I enjoy).

I also think alot of people like to draw this distinction between people who like fights, and people who like ppt (as if someone can’t enjoy both). PPT and fights go hand in hand. My server wants more points for the next tick… to get it, we are gonna have to fight over it and win those fights. Therein lies the fun.

CyRuS.6915:

King Amadaeus.8619:

GW2 must be getting a lot of new players still…That is the only reason why I could ever think anyone would still believe that:

A. Rank has anything to do with skill
B. PPT is anything but an asinine metric that measures population more than anything else.

I didn’t make any statements about whether or not I believe it is a useful metric. My point was that clearly the scoreboard (and being on top of it) is what the wvw game format is about. So, with that said, if you hate it so much, what are you doing here? If I thought it sucked or that it was “asinine” I would just go play something else instead of griping about how i wish the game was about something it isn’t.

Saying that PPT is an asinine metric does not mean that one hates WvW, it just means that one understands WvW…..

The simple thing is that WvW week-by-week is getting to be more and more about fights and less about ppt…You can control fights to an extent, in large part you (individually or as a guild) have little control over PPT in the grand scheme of things.

(Yes that means all those pvdoors are worth very little in the grand scheme, coverage rules wvw in PPT, not skill, not effort).

CyRuS.6915:

Lol I didn’t say “PPT is the only thing wvw is about” so relax man. I guess my point was that clearly the devs intended the scoreboard to be a central component of the format. Obviously, the weekly matchup competition was intended to be the main focus of the wvw format and it seems that isn’t going to change.

-The devs did not intend on GvG’s occurring but they did and still do.
-The devs did not intend on OS being a map for duels/gvg’s but it is.
-The devs thought that Bloodlust would be the next big thing in WvW, it isn’t.
-The devs thought that massive 80v80 battles with stunning graphics would be a good idea, but the game engine can’t even come close to properly handling it.
-The devs thought people would enjoy being outmanned and that “wvw isn’t supposed to be fair” would go over well with the player-base.
-The devs classify WvW as PVE.

These are just a few examples of how out of touch the situation can be, so saying that “the devs intended” really, sadly, does not hold as much weight as it should.

WvW is a sandbox, it is what you make of it.