Guild Wars 2

Iv’e been doing sniping teams more and more often, and i have put some thought into this, and i think, i found the perfect 5 man roaming team;

1x Spirit-Shout BM Bunker ranger.
What does it provide?
Spirits (Sun = 1.5k burning over 3 seconds), (frost + 10% damage), Earth (protection)
Shouts (with my own WvW roaming build you get ~3.8k regeneration over 14 seconds and 14 seconds swiftness. Shout cooldown + 1 sec cast time is 13 seconds. Using rune of the solider, i also cleanse 1 condition for the group every 13 seconds, while applying aforementioned buffs)
Signet of Renewal (Pull all conditions from party members to the pet)/Muddy Terrain (3 1/2 second immobilize + cripple pulsing)
Entangle – 14 seconds of immobilize and bleeding
Water Spirit (900hp/10 sec passive proc or 4k to ranger +2k AOE burst) or Healing Spring (10 second waterfield, 5.5k initial heal + 7.5k regen)
AOE Vigor (7 1/2 seconds on pet swap/Healing activation.

1x Venomshare Thief
What does it provide?
Increased soft and hard CC, in addition to healing (if using skelk venom), increased party condition output
Strong single target damage
Stealth

1x Guardian
What does it provide?
Swiftness, stability, protection, aegis, massive group healing, AE area denial. The usual stuff.

1x Elementalist (Not sure if we should run Aura Share? Do not know how well that build works in WvW Roaming)
What does it provide?
AOE DPS, static fields, CC, Healing – Usual Stuff

Or Engineer (just not too educated on all the stuff engineer bring, but their grenades hurts, that much i know)

1x Mesmer
What does it provide?
Nullfield (boon stripping)
Veils, mass invis and portals
Boons and boon stripping
A really annoying army of decoys to suck up AOE damage.

Why no warriors? Or necros?
Because they aren’t as tanky/hard to kill as rangers or thieves in small team roaming. The lack strong group utility in small teams, make no mistake, they are useful, i just do not find them optimal.
1 ranger can, with Brown Bear (2condis pulled from each ally every 20 seconds) and Spider provide more group cleanse, immob, DPS (yes, my build does 450-800 direct damage depending on enemy armor + 7.5k from conditions + 1.2-2.2k crits from pets at a steady 0.9 attacks/second rate. Pet attack chain also applies poison and immob every 20 seconds).
1 warrior can apply that damage, but while trying to do so, they miss out on the strong group utility. They can, at this point, not perform on par with rangers in this area (only Engineers can, from what iv’e heard)

The thief is there because in 5v5 engagements you want to kill off people quickly. And even with Venomshare, thieves hit hard. They also make for perfect stealth stompers/rezzers. I recently discovered the value of a VS build after zerg surfing with one. Even in a zerg, aslong as you’re in same party, you benefit from this stuff, and it was really strong when using ranger GS which cleaves)

Disagree especially since this is 5 man team vs 5 man team which happens rarely at least where my server sits. The numbers are usually not even and with your comp the spirit ranger, elementalist, and guardian will take most of the focus while the thief and mesmer dip in and out of invis. If my guild came across your comp the first target would be ranger then the ele if we recoginze your thief is running venom share we kill that since he has none of the usual slippery utilities.

I also took into account that even if we ran 2x warriors, the warriors would still melt before being any useful, as the other group (8-12 man) would pin them down and wreck them with AOE and conditions.
This is why i chose not to min-max the build, but make it balanced. So everyone provide group utility rather then 3x support+DPS and 2x DPS. as is the usual combination i meet.

Spike wise, my setup are not optimal. Attrition wise, it will be much stronger.
Also, i will not share my rengers build, but i can reveal as much as this; 2.8k armor, 750hp/sec permanent passive regen and 24.1k HP. I use sword/x + shortbow for evades. Targeting the ranger in this case, would take too much time and put all your CC on CD (i can practically make you burn all your CC’s just to stop me alone by pushing 3 buttons in succession).

Also, the spirit(s) are a support function, and not a core function of the ranger. It can be dropped on a moments notice for a more selfish and lot stronger 1vX option.

Prysin.8542:

Spirits (Sun = 1.5k burning over 3 seconds)

Got nerfed to 2s.

In spvp team matches 5 mm necros seems to be one of the better groups. But most organized groups I get matched up against are all necro/war teams.

As you are playing against Augury Rock I’d recommend you to check out [EscG], they seem to have an interesting setup for 6VsX.

cafard.8953:

Prysin.8542:

Spirits (Sun = 1.5k burning over 3 seconds)

Got nerfed to 2s.

not with 50% condition duration

Prysin.8542:

cafard.8953:

Prysin.8542:

Spirits (Sun = 1.5k burning over 3 seconds)

Got nerfed to 2s.

not with 50% condition duration

Condition spirit build is a laugh. You would do more burning just by taking a torch with a trap build or just a torch.

perfect 5 man team = 5 warriors, any spec, any weapon, faceroll = win.

Been doing small group wvw roaming since beta and I think the only 2 essential things are a support guardian and a mass invis Mesmer(ability to portal super important too), every other class can be relevant with a skilled player and a good build in my experience, all about focus fire and not dying/causing your team to die.

Snorcha.7586:

perfect 5 man team = 5 warriors, any spec, any weapon, faceroll = win.

would get wiped in seconds against a balanced team. The more warriors you add, the more obvious and predictable the team gets.

5 warriors = 5 hammer stuns = everyone is ready to dodge/put up stability.

Predictable and obvious = death

glaphen.5230:

Prysin.8542:

cafard.8953:

Prysin.8542:

Spirits (Sun = 1.5k burning over 3 seconds)

Got nerfed to 2s.

not with 50% condition duration

Condition spirit build is a laugh. You would do more burning just by taking a torch with a trap build or just a torch.

the spirit in my build is there for team support and general DPS increase. The build DOES NOT RELY ON THE SPIRIT. IT IS THERE AS A BONUS.

God some people need to read. Just because you HAVE ONE SPIRIT, does not make it a pureblood spirit build

Kinda funny to have a zerk warrior who can 1hitko enemies.
BAM 14.5k Evicerate hit!

Senja.9138:

Kinda funny to have a zerk warrior who can 1hitko enemies.
BAM 14.5k Evicerate hit!

My ranger can do 19k in full zerk.

I try to never bring a warrior, necromancer or engineer to an organized 5v5, they are just so easy to focus down. What we are usually running is quite similar to yours; 1 spirit ranger, 1 PU shatter mesmer, 1 healway guardian, 1 condi D/D ele and finally 1 random. Obviously, your group setup is only half the battle.

For general roaming I don’t really care, just play what you want and if you are good you are going to perform well.

1 guardian, 2 warriors, 1 necro and 1 thief would be my pick. The warriors would be hammer sword warhorn shout banner builds with PVT. The guardian would be staff GS heal/support. Thief would be venom share or DPS but also stealth for stomps and reset. Necro would be there for boon striping and conditioning.

Elementalists are too squishy in 5 man IMO. Rangers are mostly useless. Mesmer could be slotted for the thief spot. Engi while decent doesn’t have much utility here. Either the thief or necro could be removed for an additional heavy but utility would be lost.

If the group is relatively inexperienced, 2 guardians and 3 warriors would be REALLY hard to bring down. Hammer lines are strong for a very good reason. 2 guardians also open up the possibility to run zerk warriors which are also powerful.

I’d always include a necro where you can fit one =)

no such thing as a perfect 5 man team. a setup might be good for one thing and horrible for another.
guardian, guardian, necro, engie (or poison share thief), mesm, focusing targets and abusing epidemic works wonders against more disorganized opponents/pug zergs but any capable groups will give you a hard time. its still one of my favourite setups to run with.

Prysin.8542:

Senja.9138:

Kinda funny to have a zerk warrior who can 1hitko enemies.
BAM 14.5k Evicerate hit!

My ranger can do 19k in full zerk.

And a full zerk warrior can hit +20k with eviscerate or killshot and be able to have sustain due to healing signet and stances.

Prysin.8542:

I also took into account that even if we ran 2x warriors, the warriors would still melt before being any useful, as the other group (8-12 man) would pin them down and wreck them with AOE and conditions.
This is why i chose not to min-max the build, but make it balanced. So everyone provide group utility rather then 3x support+DPS and 2x DPS. as is the usual combination i meet.

Spike wise, my setup are not optimal. Attrition wise, it will be much stronger.
Also, i will not share my rengers build, but i can reveal as much as this; 2.8k armor, 750hp/sec permanent passive regen and 24.1k HP. I use sword/x + shortbow for evades. Targeting the ranger in this case, would take too much time and put all your CC on CD (i can practically make you burn all your CC’s just to stop me alone by pushing 3 buttons in succession).

Also, the spirit(s) are a support function, and not a core function of the ranger. It can be dropped on a moments notice for a more selfish and lot stronger 1vX option.

So so wrong wars with guards can be godly, ultra tanky with high dps. Also Warriors are one of the hardest profession to pin down. You must be playing with ultra bad wars if they are this first class to go down.

Due to a serious lack of condition pressure this group set up would melt to an organized and well versed group of mesmers and thieves. I’d say 3 thieves and 2 mesmers because your support ranger and or ele would be dropped in a second as soon as the thieves open on them with massive backstabs. The stealth uptime would make you run circles trying to pin a person down while slowly being bursted and forced to take AoE damage as you rez the downed person during a stealth stomp.

Your disapproval of warriors and necros surprise me due to their roles in group fights.

Warriors – Peeling thieves and other burst classes off of your glassier support members. They also provide excellent AoE pressure for cleaving and stuns for bursting select targets. Properly played warriors can force your team to choose a different target due to damage mitigation.

Necro – AoE condition pressure. Force opposing team to consistently be cleansing and give an alternate form of damage to pressure. Signet of Spite into an epidemic is never to be underestimated and will immediately force cooldowns to be used to cleanse it. The spirit ranger might be able to apply burning but necros are the king of conditions.

With the current set up I would still say the ranger would be incredibly easy to down as 2800 (not 28,000 as you stated earlier because that’s literally impossible) isn’t a very high armor rating and is minimally higher then a full zerker warrior armor. 2 mesmers and a thief could down my 3,000 armor guardian even after using my shelter in about 2 seconds with proper timing. Then the thief would be the next target due to the lack of extremely slippery escapes. After those 2 are down your party turns into a wet noodle. A very hard to kill wet noodle but a wet noodle none the less.

5 Phantasm mesmers.

brb mass invist, and 10 phantasms coming out of nowhere doing 10 × 7000 (70,000) damage to a target instantly and have that damage is aoe. Rinse repeat.

15 clones + 5 real mesmers out, battle field is gonna be a cluster.

3 warriors
elementalist
mesmer

with Fire greatesword for the mesmer.

Uhm jes im not talking about arranged 5vs5 facetank duels behind the mill.
It has to be viable for roaming, you could also replace any slot for 1-2 thiefs or just straight 5 thiefs but i dont play with thiefs and i dont group with them.

i do not disapprove of necros, just find elementalists more versatile. Another downside to bringing a necro, would be that we slow down the entire party, due to decreased swiftness and movement skills.
This is why the ele could be switched for a condition engineer. Which, if using HGH, can pretty much wreck havoc on a party of thieves.
Atm my server is pinned up against another EU server named Gandara. That server runs more thieves then any other server iv’e seen, and truth be told, their zergs can be a pain as half of it vanishes and backstabs you. But in the end, even 20+ thieves are manageble

2 x wars, 2 x thiefs and engi.

Prysin.8542:

I also took into account that even if we ran 2x warriors, the warriors would still melt before being any useful, as the other group (8-12 man) would pin them down and wreck them with AOE and conditions.
This is why i chose not to min-max the build, but make it balanced. So everyone provide group utility rather then 3x support+DPS and 2x DPS. as is the usual combination i meet.

Spike wise, my setup are not optimal. Attrition wise, it will be much stronger.
Also, i will not share my rengers build, but i can reveal as much as this; 2.8k armor, 750hp/sec permanent passive regen and 24.1k HP. I use sword/x + shortbow for evades. Targeting the ranger in this case, would take too much time and put all your CC on CD (i can practically make you burn all your CC’s just to stop me alone by pushing 3 buttons in succession).

Also, the spirit(s) are a support function, and not a core function of the ranger. It can be dropped on a moments notice for a more selfish and lot stronger 1vX option.

Actually I ran a group of 2 warriors/1 guard more than once and we held ourselves incredibly well against up to 10 foes the same time. The focused CC warriors provide + direct damage is enough to kill off anyone very fast, while the guardian is able to mitigate/heal/remove condis.

Prysin.8542:

Senja.9138:

Kinda funny to have a zerk warrior who can 1hitko enemies.
BAM 14.5k Evicerate hit!

My ranger can do 19k in full zerk.

Ranger is only viable for 1v1 imo… and even then they are squishy fishies. Never found any ranger who could beat me.

Sirendor.1394:

Prysin.8542:

Senja.9138:

Kinda funny to have a zerk warrior who can 1hitko enemies.
BAM 14.5k Evicerate hit!

My ranger can do 19k in full zerk.

Ranger is only viable for 1v1 imo… and even then they are squishy fishies. Never found any ranger who could beat me.

reading your signature, i get it that you play thief. Which is supposed to be the best 1v1 profession out there. Now, either you met terrible rangers running nothing but copy-paste builds from youtube, or, you’re just better then them.

In the past 2 days, if killed 19 thieves, 1v1, with a zerker bearbow ranger. i lost only 3 times. It isn’t hard to kill thieves, if you know how to do it.

Warriors provide CC, but so does my ranger, and if we add in the venomshare thief, every group member gets 2x 2sec immobilize on attack. Now, correct me if i’m wrong, but 2x 2sec x 5 players… that is potentially 20 seconds, if stacked carefully in order. Now, 20 seconds, not being able to move. adding that to my ranger being able to snare 5 players for 21 seconds.

Warriors have limited evades/block, so they will end up having to stand there and facetank the whole DPS parade. Also, Torch offhand on rangers make for a very quick barbeque against any and all targets unable to move out of the #5 skill.

Prysin.8542:

reading your signature, i get it that you play thief. Which is supposed to be the best 1v1 profession out there. Now, either you met terrible rangers running nothing but copy-paste builds from youtube, or, you’re just better then them.

Wrong
I play every class except ranger (deleted it months ago), and I quite truthfully can say I’m an excellent guardian, a pretty good warrior, a decent thief, a decent elementalist, a fair necromancer, a fair mesmer, an okay engineer.
And sure I might have run into the worst rangers ever, just never saw any that gave me trouble except in SPvP.

Prysin.8542:

In the past 2 days, if killed 19 thieves, 1v1, with a zerker bearbow ranger. i lost only 3 times. It isn’t hard to kill thieves, if you know how to do it.

As I said, Ranger is viable as a 1v1 class. There are thieves and thieves though.

Prysin.8542:

Warriors have limited evades/block, so they will end up having to stand there and facetank the whole DPS parade.

Not entirely. Warrior has a lot of damage mitigation and extreme amount of mobility.

1 guardian* (average or high ability) – must run stability and some healing.
4x players (high ability) – any class as long as they understand their builds and classes very well.

Skill > Team composition

*Optional if you want to replace with another very skilled player. xD

Sirendor.1394:

Prysin.8542:

reading your signature, i get it that you play thief. Which is supposed to be the best 1v1 profession out there. Now, either you met terrible rangers running nothing but copy-paste builds from youtube, or, you’re just better then them.

Wrong
I play every class except ranger (deleted it months ago), and I quite truthfully can say I’m an excellent guardian, a pretty good warrior, a decent thief, a decent elementalist, a fair necromancer, a fair mesmer, an okay engineer.
And sure I might have run into the worst rangers ever, just never saw any that gave me trouble except in SPvP.

Prysin.8542:

In the past 2 days, if killed 19 thieves, 1v1, with a zerker bearbow ranger. i lost only 3 times. It isn’t hard to kill thieves, if you know how to do it.

As I said, Ranger is viable as a 1v1 class. There are thieves and thieves though.

Prysin.8542:

Warriors have limited evades/block, so they will end up having to stand there and facetank the whole DPS parade.

Not entirely. Warrior has a lot of damage mitigation and extreme amount of mobility.

counting the movemetns/evades/blocks, they got 7 or 8? in total. Then they are through.
That is considering they spec for CC clear when using movement skills. By doing so, they also lose out on quite a few other utilities.

The point is not what you CAN build for to hard counter ONE ranger. Because if you hard counter my build, you simply die against anything else. The question is not what you CAN do. Because in that case ranger is the best option no matter what, it can do everything, and most of it at the same time. It is what you will run and be effective with.
A warrior that specs for “anti ranger” play will only beat that ranger. The rest will mow down that warrior. And sadly, that goes for anything. The plan of my composition is to not pidgeonhole the group into a “we can beat that but not that”. Because a melee group will just get feared at kited. A ranged group will get CC’d and mowed down. Bunkers get bursted, Zerkers get condi spammed.

Balanced wise, every player plays part and makes a difference, yet all professions will hold their own on their own (except guard, which can’t run away)

this is a really interesting topic that our guild has been discussing for a while

First of all we obviously know there has to be at least 1 guardian for stability and utility
Second, we’ve found that condi bomb engis allow for tons of aoe condi pressure that bring the masses to the ground quickly
Third, we’re not sure but, we think necros are the best class for the condi spike and boon removal that we occasionally need to bring down a good warrior or someone similar
The last two spots are really iffy, because we haven’t gotten to experiment more than 3vx, but after a lot of discussion we feel that:
Fourth, a mesmer would bring the most overall utility and psychological disorientation to the enemy. things like mass invis and null field as well as the spike and constant disorientation is just too great to give up
Fifth, a zerker thief that can burst down enemies extremely quickly, bring stealth and blinds, and drop shadow refuges when needed seems to fit the last role.

This comp allows for some support from all classes (except the necro, but he’s a necro) and ENOUGH condi removal from each player that IF we’re careful with it we should be able to defeat heavy condi teams. The comp overall consists of a heavy aoe condi applier that is very tough to take down, a spiking and corrupting necro that does a lot of burst condi damage, a utility mesmer that also brings disorientation and decent damage, a burst thief to take out the tough condi appliers, and a guardian for extra direct damage and support skills.

ATM the first three classes (necro guardian engi) seem to be working very very well (often winning 3v10 against 80’s), so we based the last two classes around this comp. I wish we had more players to experiment with, but we play so much together that absolute synergy is needed.. I do however think this class comp would be the best possible for a 5 man.

I’d bring:

1) Guardian hybrid dps support.
2) Power/Condi necro
3) Power/Condi engie
4) Shatter mesmer
5) Stunlock Warrior.

I’m thinking of the “perfect 5v5 teamfight.” Not anti zerg.

Mesmer and necro can clear boons for stunlock, which allows mesmer/necro/engie to burrst down the enemy and provide cleave dmg. Guardian supports team with boons and added dps.

Ranger is too squishy with spirits. Thief is too squishy for a teamfight.

we did a test run with 2x bersi warrior (sword/shield + hammer with 10 0 30 0 30) 2x bersi/cavalier guardian with ( sword/x + hammer with dont know traits ^^) and 1x bersi/cavalier ranger ( sword/horn + greatsword with 0 10 30 30 0 + perma fury/might/reg/swiftness upkeep for the group) was a pretty nasty experiance, less for us but more for the guild groups of 10-15 players.

have stoped after 1 night because it was simply to strong and boring ( or we just havent encountered anything strong that night )

5 mesmers. Maybe swap one of them for a necro or guardian.

Ryan.9387:

I’d bring:

1) Guardian hybrid dps support.
2) Power/Condi necro
3) Power/Condi engie
4) Shatter mesmer
5) Stunlock Warrior.

I’m thinking of the “perfect 5v5 teamfight.” Not anti zerg.

Mesmer and necro can clear boons for stunlock, which allows mesmer/necro/engie to burrst down the enemy and provide cleave dmg. Guardian supports team with boons and added dps.

Ranger is too squishy with spirits. Thief is too squishy for a teamfight.

When you say ranger is too squishy with spirits i get curious. Because the normal spirit build as far as i know is full condition tank. Which is pretty much one of the builds that makes rangers incredibly pain in the kitten to kill.
Also, a full spirit build will never work in WvW, you cannot bring more then 2 at most (elite/water spirit + 1 spirit from utility slot)

No Warrior is a surprise to me. My experience is: 1 Shout Build Warrior + 1 Shout, Heal, Boon Build Guardian together is one of the strongest cores to any serious group you can have. I think some one posted further up “God Like” and they are spot on!
But again this is just me……….

roamzero.9486:

5 mesmers. Maybe swap one of them for a necro or guardian.

Hahaha thought of the same thing. One mesmer can already be a pain. But five of them moving around between 15 clones >.>

a shout war has the highest rate of aoe condi cleanse in the game, not to mention insane group healing.

couple that with a properly built support guard, and you’re good to go. put in anything else you want, and its a perfect team.

i’d personally take an dd ele, zerker warrior, and a condi necro.

Ryan gets it! I`d switch the warrior for elementalist or shoutmelee-ranger, because warrior doesn`t bring much to the table synergywise apart from being an overbuffed, selfsustaining powerhouse.

That comp can take on anything and is versatile to the max!

We were doing a bit larger last night in an 8v8, and we brought:
High damage D/D ele,
High damage guardian with stability
High damage war with Rifle/Longbow
Heavy condition engineer
Phantasm Mesmer
Power engineer
And two Gank thieves.

This wasn’t the perfect team composition at all. Honestly I’d have swapped a thief for another guardian or staff ele. But we had a lot of fun with that comp.

One condi necro, one 3 kit engi, one shout/heal warr, one trap ranger and one staff ele.

Just enough condi pressure mixed with a fair amount of direct damage pressure and a kitten ton of CC.

Prysin is trying to make a place for the Ranger class, I applaud the effort. The reality is different. I’m seeing a host of different possible best 5 man groups utilizing a host of different builds from some of the same classes. No one else is bringing up another Ranger build that would be considered viable, unless Prysin’s comment about a zerker Ranger is appealing over a zerker warrior (which I doubt).

Solid effort.

Considered valuable by whom?

Moon.6371:

Ryan gets it! I`d switch the warrior for elementalist or shoutmelee-ranger, because warrior doesn`t bring much to the table synergywise apart from being an overbuffed, selfsustaining powerhouse.

I don’t think you understand how a PVT shout warrior works. Their shouts heal everyone near them (almost 2k per teammate), they are constantly applying team fury/might/swiftness/vigor and even come with decent group condition removal. They show up with 30k+ HP, 3500+ armor and a 4k+ attack. Then they throw in near full time crowd control, built in stability and an elite banner that rezzes/buffs.

There is a reason RedGuard ran with shout warriors. Oh and Rangers have the WORST shouts of any class in the game… bar none.

NargofWoV.4267:

Prysin is trying to make a place for the Ranger class, I applaud the effort. The reality is different. I’m seeing a host of different possible best 5 man groups utilizing a host of different builds from some of the same classes. No one else is bringing up another Ranger build that would be considered viable, unless Prysin’s comment about a zerker Ranger is appealing over a zerker warrior (which I doubt).

Solid effort.

You clearly haven’t done a 5v5 with / against a spirit ranger.

Back when we ran 5 guard, guard, war, mez, engi worked best for us. Tons of stability and blasting the engi water field is a full group heal.

its a shame well never really know due to 5v5 never ever being a thing. I can count the number of 5v5s we had against skilled people on one hand. It sucks too because its some of the best fun ive had since daoc.

5x good players running what they’re good with.

K U T M.4539:

5x good players running what they’re good with.

this is true to a limit. However at some point, the profession mechanics will reach their limits. And no amount of skill can make up for that. It is simply the limit.
A guardian cannot be fast (perma swiftness is useless without gap closers to get well out of range of any weapon) the way a ranger or warrior can, a ranger cannot rip boons off enemies as efficient as a necro or mesmer. A mesmer cannot heal a group as efficiently as a guard, ele, engi or ranger, a warrior cannot deal as much damage as a thief, without putting him/herself at a risk, a thief cannot apply as much condition pressure as a necro or engineer.

Every profession has a limit. Once you reach that limit, one must start to find what is most likely going to work

5 Mesmers all have mass invis

1. Mass invis
2. call illusion berserker at the same target = instant down
3. all chaos storm on down target
4. Mass invis and so on…