Guild Wars 2

Lame that cheese class has a 100% out of every fight and there is zippidy you can do about it.

Conveniently, perma-stealth is going tomorrow. There you go.

Tibstrike.2974:

Conveniently, perma-stealth is going tomorrow. There you go.

Ha ha..if you think that is what is broken with the stealth system then I don’t know what to say..

There are plenty of ways to counter the perma-stealth meta if you know how it works.

Yes perma-stealth is over the top and I’m glad its getting nerfed next patch but don’t act like a d/p theif can just faceroll everyone. There are ways to counter it.

Oh and yes this a l2p issue.

The real problem is that simply to be different, this game thought it was wise to allow a class with very high dps, the ability to pop into stealth while in combat. Never done in other games and predictably a problem here. I have specced out of the perma stealth build because of the cheese factor, but it’s still very easy to kill enemies on my thief. As a thief, I agree with you, and I have recommended changes, but my fellow thieves hate me for it. I recommend that you continue to respectfully submit feedback to anet.

gwfanboy.2496:

Tibstrike.2974:

Conveniently, perma-stealth is going tomorrow. There you go.

Ha ha..if you think that is what is broken with the stealth system then I don’t know what to say..

Considering I’m not a terrible player who cries over getting ganked by thieves I think I will be okay.

Protip. If a thief goes stealth mid combat or upon engage, he is going for a backstab 98% of the time. Count to 2-3 depending on distance between you and dodge. Guess what? A kittening miracle occurs and backstab doesn’t land. Rinse and repeat while laying down AoE and melee everywhere. Frankly, at this point I’m more concerned about condi thieves because if a thief can’t one shot me its gonna be a short battle favoring me. And if a theif does one shot me then it was in the cards that day that I would die. Respawn and run back out.

“L2P”

- Cheesing Thief

Elaboration:

“L2WhackThinAir”

Eloquence.5207:

“L2P”

- Cheesing Thief

Elaboration:

“L2WhackThinAir”

If you have ever played as a thief you would find that they are incredibly predictable after they’ve activated stealth. If you see them go into stealth you can aoe, kite, cleave, cc, dodge. There are a lot of options. They usually only have 3 seconds or so to land a backstab. You can assume they are trying to get in range of your back as soon as they pop stealth. Since they are melee, you can kite them very easily if you have swiftness. Afterall, they only have around 3 seconds to land a backstab They have a couple teleports up their sleeve but that’s when dodge and other skills comes in.

Easiest way to counter thief is to play one. You’ll see how all their mechanics work. I’d go more in depth about countering thieves but it all depends on your profession.

I’m sorry but if you are spamming 1 and auto-attacking in the air then it is definitively a l2p issue. If you are killed by a heartseeker masher then I have zero sympathy for you.

Bads will we bads.

once again..
A bad player is predictable

A stealthed player in order to be predictable has to be incredibly bad.

Stealth makes you TOTALLY unpredictable with no effort and that is why its totally OP as a skill….

And i am talking about stealth not thieves…

I wonder how players can say L2P and ignore a basic concept of any pvp game….

LordByron.8369:

once again..
A bad player is predictable

A stealthed player in order to be predictable has to be incredibly bad.

Stealth makes you TOTALLY unpredictable with no effort and that is why its totally OP as a skill….

NB talking about stealth…

I wonder how players can say L2P and ignore a basic concept of any pvp game….

Lol, I agree. As a thief, once I stealth, 99% of the time, enemies won’t hit me. That includes multiple enemies. While it can be entertaining to watch them flail, I feel kind of dirty for abusing the mechanic this way. Btw Anet called it abuse- not my language. I hope they balance us soon so that we can get some fixes. The way thieves are now, anet should not fix us or the balance will be even worse.

When i fight against thief i keep my eyes closed and push some buttons.

Nerfing the perma-Black Powder stealthing was needed.

But if you think Thieves are OP, or easy to play… try it first, because you are wrong.

I have no issue with thieves being able to escape easily, because they are very fragile. You know what I find plain stupid? A class like Warrior that has excellent damage output AND high passive survivability being able to remove roots/slows and shoot very far out of combat to escape whenever they want. Explain to me how that is balanced.

“Perma Stealth Needs To Go”
– Aaaaand it’s gone.

I honestly feel like I’m the only person who mains a thief that welcomes these “nerfs”. Too long have I dealt with these annoying permastealthers, I can’t wait to see how they play now that they can’t just stealth and run away whenever they desire

Ransom.1362:

I honestly feel like I’m the only person who mains a thief that welcomes these “nerfs”. Too long have I dealt with these annoying permastealthers, I can’t wait to see how they play now that they can’t just stealth and run away whenever they desire

A non-permastealth thief is one of the most fun (and if played by a skilled player, most challenging) classes to fight 1 vs 1.

Permastealth thiefs just annoy me, you can’t kill them if they’re played properly, they can just run away from any battle whenever they want, and if you choose to walk away and ignore them, they can sneak up on you and use high damaging backstabs. A massive time waster.

I seriously welcome the change and look forward to seeing more “skilled” thiefs appearing on the battlefield. Please note that I like fighting thiefs and in no way am I saying that all thiefs aren’t skilled, but in my view, people abusing the stealth are as bad as button mashers in fighting games. “Hey, if I press jump and kick repeatedly, I just win every time, lulz”

I would have prefered that stealth in GW2 had the same treatment as TF2 spies where you can actually spot them if you pay attention – that way skill and attention on both sides of the divide are required either playing, or fighting a thief.

Lady Lozza.9670:

I would have prefered that stealth in GW2 had the same treatment as TF2 spies where you can actually spot them if you pay attention – that way skill and attention on both sides of the divide are required either playing, or fighting a thief.

You mean like the predator effect or more subtle? It would be a good idea if the gfx settings would not allow people to abuse this somehow.

aspirine.6852:

Lady Lozza.9670:

I would have prefered that stealth in GW2 had the same treatment as TF2 spies where you can actually spot them if you pay attention – that way skill and attention on both sides of the divide are required either playing, or fighting a thief.

You mean like the predator effect or more subtle? It would be a good idea if the gfx settings would not allow people to abuse this somehow.

It’s not just an issue of graphics I think, but also perhaps of lag. I’m not sure about this of course it’s just a guess but lag might show the stealth more visibly or less visibly depending on how the graphics handled the “transparent blur” effect. Still I think it’s a better solution than nerfing stealth to the ground – it has applications outside of one shotting a player.

Fact: Most cheaters(Hack the game) play thief and exploit the stealth mechanism. I have seem thief disappear without any smoke field for more than 20 over time non-stop.
Fact: Most cheater always try to take on massive number of players which makes them very visible and noticeable to everyone. (No one will complain if 6 thieves hit them and they die)
The reason is simple:
It is very very hard to report someone who keep disappearing.
It is also very hard to take note of the hp of hacker when you cannot see them
It is also very hard to know if you hit someone or he is hiding under the ground if they “stealth”.

The problem is not perm stealth which is not easy to maintain for legal players but HACK.

It is going.

/thread

Daoc stealth system was best. Perma stealth but once you put yourself into combat or you took damage from an aoe, you were removed from stealth and I believe there was a 45 second timer at minimum before you could re-stealth. So the stealth system would be better if it modelled daoc system. Perma and only reenter once you are out of combat ei when you can swap skills.

I still find it funny people complain about permastealth. Stand in that RED circle and watch how much fun they have heartseeking through it. Drop aoes around you and see how long that squishy thief hangs around you.

How come its okay for mesmers to have just as much stealth and zerk clones doing who knows how much damage to you while they are still stealthed? Why can necros chain fear you and condi bomb you to death before you can do anything? Why can warriors (list too long)? etc.

tl;dr
-all classes have op builds, 95% of people play them
-l2p or go join the blob and spam 1

Assassin X.8573:

Daoc stealth system was best. Perma stealth but once you put yourself into combat or you took damage from an aoe, you were removed from stealth and I believe there was a 45 second timer at minimum before you could re-stealth. So the stealth system would be better if it modelled daoc system. Perma and only reenter once you are out of combat ei when you can swap skills.

That would be such a nerf to thief. Because many of them are dead meat if they cannot stealth anymore. It would require a skill change because lots of the d/d damage is from hitting in stealth :/

Frigid.6027:

I still find it funny people complain about permastealth. Stand in that RED circle and watch how much fun they have heartseeking through it. Drop aoes around you and see how long that squishy thief hangs around you.

How come its okay for mesmers to have just as much stealth and zerk clones doing who knows how much damage to you while they are still stealthed? Why can necros chain fear you and condi bomb you to death before you can do anything? Why can warriors (list too long)? etc.

tl;dr
-all classes have op builds, 95% of people play them
-l2p or go join the blob and spam 1

I ll give you few tips to improve your thief play.
1) you can evade
2) you should not SR at 10% HP
3) you can use SR as a bait.

Did you read the part about being predictable and bad?

aspirine.6852:

Assassin X.8573:

Daoc stealth system was best. Perma stealth but once you put yourself into combat or you took damage from an aoe, you were removed from stealth and I believe there was a 45 second timer at minimum before you could re-stealth. So the stealth system would be better if it modelled daoc system. Perma and only reenter once you are out of combat ei when you can swap skills.

That would be such a nerf to thief. Because many of them are dead meat if they cannot stealth anymore. It would require a skill change because lots of the d/d damage is from hitting in stealth :/

Yet it worked well in daoc……

Sanduskel.1850:

aspirine.6852:

Assassin X.8573:

Daoc stealth system was best. Perma stealth but once you put yourself into combat or you took damage from an aoe, you were removed from stealth and I believe there was a 45 second timer at minimum before you could re-stealth. So the stealth system would be better if it modelled daoc system. Perma and only reenter once you are out of combat ei when you can swap skills.

That would be such a nerf to thief. Because many of them are dead meat if they cannot stealth anymore. It would require a skill change because lots of the d/d damage is from hitting in stealth :/

Yet it worked well in daoc……

Probably because the class wasn’t completely built around being able to stealth and/or evade. Thieves and Guardians both have the lowest base health pool yet are both in-your-face fighters for the most part. They survive by stealth and evades for thieves and boons and virtues for guardians. Take away a guardians boons or virtues and you are left with a walking loot bag. Take away a thief’s stealth and while they can certainly survive and fight well, they are severely limited in terms of when they can engage and disengage.

Then again, I have no idea what DoAC was like.

The problem, as I see it, with permastealth is that it simply is, as another poster stated, a total time waster. I have to guard every caravan with 5 other people just to keep a phasing thief from killing the yak and everyone escorting it. I AoE, I slash and hack at air, I throw Entangle or Muddy Terrain to try and trap them but they teleport out, gain 2 more initiative and hide again. It is purely a griefer role to be a permastealth thief and that is it. In melee, open field zerg battles or keep/tower assaults, you don’t find the thief. You find them hiding by a simple sentry post or shadowing a caravan waiting for someone to guard it. I am glad ANet is at least creating the possibility of whacking the thief.

However, for a well played thief, this nerf won’t change their back stab or other initiative driven talents. As a matter of fact, they may be losing perma stealth but they are gaining base initiative speed so a D/D thief will still be able to spin over 5 players and throw bleed stacks like no tomorrow and just back up as their victims bleed out or drop into stealth for the three seconds and throw a back stab on a nearly dead toon.

It was noticeable this weekend that the thieves know their time is coming because they have been out in force in WvW, griefing like crazy ahead of the nerf.

aspirine.6852:

Assassin X.8573:

Daoc stealth system was best. Perma stealth but once you put yourself into combat or you took damage from an aoe, you were removed from stealth and I believe there was a 45 second timer at minimum before you could re-stealth. So the stealth system would be better if it modelled daoc system. Perma and only reenter once you are out of combat ei when you can swap skills.

That would be such a nerf to thief. Because many of them are dead meat if they cannot stealth anymore. It would require a skill change because lots of the d/d damage is from hitting in stealth :/

Stealth does not change what happens when you press 2222222222222 it only changes the auto attack on skill 1 lead attack. If you ha e the ability to stealth you should be waiting and watching for the most opportune time to make your big sneak attack. Having played a stealth class main in every game prior to gw2 I feel safe to say that you should playing this way, lay in wait not 2222222 stealthlol 22222 stealthlol 222222 there go 3 ppl.

Tibstrike.2974:

Sanduskel.1850:

aspirine.6852:

Assassin X.8573:

Daoc stealth system was best. Perma stealth but once you put yourself into combat or you took damage from an aoe, you were removed from stealth and I believe there was a 45 second timer at minimum before you could re-stealth. So the stealth system would be better if it modelled daoc system. Perma and only reenter once you are out of combat ei when you can swap skills.

That would be such a nerf to thief. Because many of them are dead meat if they cannot stealth anymore. It would require a skill change because lots of the d/d damage is from hitting in stealth :/

Yet it worked well in daoc……

Probably because the class wasn’t completely built around being able to stealth and/or evade. Thieves and Guardians both have the lowest base health pool yet are both in-your-face fighters for the most part. They survive by stealth and evades for thieves and boons and virtues for guardians. Take away a guardians boons or virtues and you are left with a walking loot bag. Take away a thief’s stealth and while they can certainly survive and fight well, they are severely limited in terms of when they can engage and disengage.

Then again, I have no idea what DoAC was like.

Actually, thieves only have low health pools if they spec that way. I’ve gotten decent health when I don’t spec glass cannon. In other words, thieves have to make choices like everyone else.

I will say it again although peeps usually don’t seem to agree with me. My main was a thief but I recently switched to engi cus its more fun to play. What I felt was brokenly op about theif was shadow refuge. Almost every single thief in the entire game uses this utility. It is a 90+ percent chance get out of jail free card every minute. I don’t understand why other people can’t come to the same conclusion that if almost every single player that has ever played thief uses this one utility there is a problem with it. Other utilities from other classes are popular yes but I have never ran into a single thief ever that doesn’t use shadow refuge. Its op fix it.

Chuck Zitto.2367:

I will say it again although peeps usually don’t seem to agree with me. My main was a thief but I recently switched to engi cus its more fun to play. What I felt was brokenly op about theif was shadow refuge. Almost every single thief in the entire game uses this utility. It is a 90+ percent chance get out of jail free card every minute. I don’t understand why other people can’t come to the same conclusion that if almost every single player that has ever played thief uses this one utility there is a problem with it. Other utilities from other classes are popular yes but I have never ran into a single thief ever that doesn’t use shadow refuge. Its op fix it.

I just out and out LOVE it when a thief goes into Shadow Refuge. That’s his most vulnerable moment and if he’s anywhere near me, he’s dead.

Chuck Zitto.2367:

I will say it again although peeps usually don’t seem to agree with me. My main was a thief but I recently switched to engi cus its more fun to play. What I felt was brokenly op about theif was shadow refuge. Almost every single thief in the entire game uses this utility. It is a 90+ percent chance get out of jail free card every minute. I don’t understand why other people can’t come to the same conclusion that if almost every single player that has ever played thief uses this one utility there is a problem with it. Other utilities from other classes are popular yes but I have never ran into a single thief ever that doesn’t use shadow refuge. Its op fix it.

Shadow’s Refuge is so successful because so many players have no idea how easy it is to counter. I mean, I wish I had a dollar for every time I used Shadow’s Refuge and had a huge group of players just stare at it, decide that there was nothing to do, and walk away.

Here’s a tip for anyone that may be one of those players:
If you can see the edges of that red ring when an enemy thief uses Shadow’s Refuge, then he’s still in that spot. Also, if you knock him out before that circle is gone, not only does it de-stealth him, but it will also put the revealed debuff on him.

So, when you see that red circle, do one or all of the following:
– Use AoE damage. You will either down the thief or pressure them enough to run out of the stealth.
– Run through and auto-attack. When you see your auto attack move to the next part of the chain, that means you hit the thief. Keep moving to areas where your auto attack chains, because that’s where the thief is and if you do this enough, you will down the thief.
– Use AoE knockbacks/fears. Mesmers, break out that Greatsword and hit #5. Guardians, pop that shield bubble. Warriors, pull out your hammer to use Staggering Blow. Engineers, use your shield for Magnetic Inversion. Necros, throw down a Reaper’s Mark. Etc., etc. You get the point.

Here’s another thought; get rid of the two-hit thief. kthanksbai

Dahkeus.8243:

Chuck Zitto.2367:

I will say it again although peeps usually don’t seem to agree with me. My main was a thief but I recently switched to engi cus its more fun to play. What I felt was brokenly op about theif was shadow refuge. Almost every single thief in the entire game uses this utility. It is a 90+ percent chance get out of jail free card every minute. I don’t understand why other people can’t come to the same conclusion that if almost every single player that has ever played thief uses this one utility there is a problem with it. Other utilities from other classes are popular yes but I have never ran into a single thief ever that doesn’t use shadow refuge. Its op fix it.

Shadow’s Refuge is so successful because so many players have no idea how easy it is to counter. I mean, I wish I had a dollar for every time I used Shadow’s Refuge and had a huge group of players just stare at it, decide that there was nothing to do, and walk away.

Here’s a tip for anyone that may be one of those players:
If you can see the edges of that red ring when an enemy thief uses Shadow’s Refuge, then he’s still in that spot. Also, if you knock him out before that circle is gone, not only does it de-stealth him, but it will also put the revealed debuff on him.

So, when you see that red circle, do one or all of the following:
– Use AoE damage. You will either down the thief or pressure them enough to run out of the stealth.
– Run through and auto-attack. When you see your auto attack move to the next part of the chain, that means you hit the thief. Keep moving to areas where your auto attack chains, because that’s where the thief is and if you do this enough, you will down the thief.
– Use AoE knockbacks/fears. Mesmers, break out that Greatsword and hit #5. Guardians, pop that shield bubble. Warriors, pull out your hammer to use Staggering Blow. Engineers, use your shield for Magnetic Inversion. Necros, throw down a Reaper’s Mark. Etc., etc. You get the point.

most of the thief stealth skills have tells. I don’t even use Shadow Refuge because, like you said, it’s super easy to counter. I can’t tell you how many times i’ve caught thieves in WvW just by spotting a random smoke cloud (blinding powder).

Also worth noting, if you run with your combat log on, it will show if you hit a stealthed player. Good call on the auto-attack chain, i hadn’t thought of that i just mash 1. I will start paying attention to that now, thanks!

I believe in autobalance.

Mechanics should be designed so they balance themselves out. So they work normally until an extreme case happens, so there’s no need to alter the mechanic itself or many skills across the board just because of some particular cases.

Here’s some rough examples of possible ways to add autobalance to stealth mechanics.

1. Revealed linked to direct damage.
The stronger the attack that revealed you, the longer Revealed would last. If people were to deal weaker hits to get shorter revealed, they would also be losing lots of potential damage as people would have more time to react to the damage, and thieves would lose effectiveness from traits like Hidden Killer. On the other hand, if they were to try and maximize their damage by hiding and hitting only from Stealth to be able to always hit with criticals and from the back or the sides, they’ll get longer Revealed.
Thieves would have to balance the risk of staying visible and their damage potential.

2. Consecutive stealths within a very short time could have a side-effect.
Each time one loses Stealth with direct damage, a “Risky Behavior” effect would be put on them. The effect would stack up to 10 and have a duration long enough so a player that hides and attacks from Stealth way to often would end up with 10 stacks. When 10 stacks happen, it’s considered that “the character hides too often, making it easier for others to see the pattern”, and the character that repeatedly got stealth loses all “Risk” effects and gets a 30-second “Seen Through” that penalizes usage of Stealth with some negative effect, such as making Stealth last less, or reduce damage dealt while in Stealth, or making the stealthing character partially visible when stealth is about to end or when it has just started.

3. Stealth could have an ‘overdose’ effect.
Get 5 guys to spam Stealth for way too long to stay hidden, and they get revealed for a long time. Stealth should be enough to hide a bit, but not enough to wait for 30 minutes inside a tower or keep, or to move a few steps away from a sentry and wait there until the guy that just drove you away from capturing it leaves.
5 entire consecutive minutes cloaked should be enough to get a 10-second Revealed. To avoid that, you’ll have to lose stealth on purpose for a little time, risking being discovered, and quickly stealth again.
So positioning themselves in good hiding spots would work better than simply staying out of the way of some guy spamming attacks trying to catch people hiding.

Perma-stealth isn’t really a problem. I’ve found a sure way to deal with perma-stealth thieves inside of keeps/towers as a mesmer. Wait until they just become revealed, target them and MOA!! For some reason, even if they stealth, if they don’t dodge it they get moa’ed in stealth. This will pop them out of stealth, then you have your fun! I’ve killed quite a few perma-stealth thiefs this way (even in field). They tend to be a bit squishier..so if you throw a few dazes/stuns on them they tend to either die or run off.

If a perma-stealth thief attacks you and runs off, don’t chase. That is something I see people do all the time and get frustrated. If you’re chasing someone down for a long time, they’re winning.

The only “broken” part of stealth that I really see is that if someone attacks you from stealth, and you block their attack they stay in stealth. A block should bring up the revealed (think of what BLOCK means! It’s not evade, it’s coming into contact and blocking the attack!). That is really the only broken part…I can sit doing my mesmer scepter block and see “block block block” but the little bugger stays stealthed. Of course..then I know he’s around…so it’s not all bad?

Also, I think nothing ruins a thieves day more than throwing an AoE right when he/she uses Shadow Refuge..it makes that skill use totally useless!

Dahkeus.8243:

Shadow’s Refuge is so successful because so many players have no idea how easy it is to counter. I mean, I wish I had a dollar for every time I used Shadow’s Refuge and had a huge group of players just stare at it, decide that there was nothing to do, and walk away.

I wouldn’t say it’s easy to counter since WvW is far more open than sPvP, and thieves have more movement skills to create to create a gap away from players that might have point blank control effects like the engi / guardian shield knockbacks, big ol’ bomb, etc. Really the only danger is the mesmer GS knockback, reaper’s mark if you move, or another thief that happens to have skull fear. Then there’s damage, and it’s amazing how many players with chain skills don’t realize that the chain cycling is very effective stealthed player detection. It’s funny how many times you can be downed in refuge and heal yourself back up because no one spams skill 1 looking for the thief, even more so now that refuge stealth last longer.

Perma, or very long stealth is is about over (I think it’s still possible with the right traits though), but you can still stack 4 times with preparedness and stack another 3 times after that runs down. That’s more than enough time to get away or hide in most cases; just no more stalking players forever in stealth; or easily shadowing zergs in scout mode.

Phoenixfudge.5290:

There are plenty of ways to counter the perma-stealth meta if you know how it works.

Yes perma-stealth is over the top and I’m glad its getting nerfed next patch but don’t act like a d/p theif can just faceroll everyone. There are ways to counter it.

Oh and yes this a l2p issue.

Which is not what the OP was talking about at all. He was discussing the idea that perma stealth gives them a clean getaway from fights 100% of the time. No mention was made of theifs being able to faceroll anyone.

Oh and yes, this is a learn to read issue.

gwfanboy.2496:

Tibstrike.2974:

Conveniently, perma-stealth is going tomorrow. There you go.

Ha ha..if you think that is what is broken with the stealth system then I don’t know what to say..

Wow. Some people complain about everything. You get permastealth nerfed and still aren’t happy.

It wasn’t nerfed actually. You can still stack stealth. So permastealth thieves actually were buffed in this patch. they have the benefit of faster initiative regen and can spam stealth even more than they could before now. I personally dislike using stealth and use a stealthless thief, but for testing purposes I tried it out. You CAN still stack stealth. they changed nothing. Wait to go anet on making the most annoying trolls in the game even more annoying.

Eh, my guardian has 3400 armor. Backstab away, maybe it will almost tickle.

In all seriousness, the thief class is totally kittened without stealth, they are just to squishy to be an “out in the open” target/combatant. However, that doesn’t mean they should be able to just stealth as much as they please. Point blank, the thief has far to many skills available to them that awards stealth. You already do double the damage when back stabbing, and on top of that(can’t remember the name of the skill/trait/kitten etc.) you have a way to guarantee yourself 100% crit chance on the next attack. So yeah, no more seemingly permanent stealth. Boo hoo, cry me a river Justin timberkitten.

Here’s some thief balances I suggested:

Original thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Minimizing-Stealth-Crutches-for-Thieves/first#post3344440

“This is a two part suggestion, and it aims to up the skill level of thieves. People who play smart wouldn’t really be affected, and those who are abusing it would be punished and forced to play smarter.

Suggestion 1: If a thief misses a sneak attack move, it’s gone. You missed it. It promotes sloppy play when a thief can just sit in stealth chasing you and spamming his sneak attack over and over until it finally lands. You would get to stay in stealth, but you would go back to your standard auto attack.

Suggestion 2: Blocks should reveal thief. Would also promote smarter play. Too often I see thieves just spamming their sneak attack moves over and over until it lands finally. This made the block rather pointless, why block if thieves can just spam sneak attacks until my block is gone or my blocking duration is over? The worst is pistol MH sneak attack, which can actually land 1 full sneak attack + a partial of another one, if the first shot hits a block or evade. The mechanic is broken.

I stopped playing my old thief main ages ago because I felt it allowed too sloppy of play. You can get away with some of the most ridiculous things. I personally get bored without a good challenge. I would love to play thief again if changes like this were implemented.

inb4 biased thief rage"

I agree with the above suggestion: Punish attacks that don’t land.

And the whole get free jail thing, well, lots of other classes can do it just as well without stealth. If a thief is specced to do precisely that, then it is what it is. And no, if you’re not specced with say, 30 in Shadow Arts, using SR and pulling it off when your health is below 25% will usually kill you to a player who actually knows how to deal with SR (already explained in earlier posts).

Lastly, this so called “nerf” wasn’t really that much of a nerf. The base initiative regen have been increased so it’s more like the mechanic of stealth has slightly changed, but not really nerfed.

Tachii.3506:

I agree with the above suggestion: Punish attacks that don’t land.

And the whole get free jail thing, well, lots of other classes can do it just as well without stealth. If a thief is specced to do precisely that, then it is what it is. And no, if you’re not specced with say, 30 in Shadow Arts, using SR and pulling it off when your health is below 25% will usually kill you to a player who actually knows how to deal with SR (already explained in earlier posts).

Lastly, this so called “nerf” wasn’t really that much of a nerf. The base initiative regen have been increased so it’s more like the mechanic of stealth has slightly changed, but not really nerfed.

It wasn’t a nerf and they didn’t need one either. Thief in general received buffs with the higher initiative regen which opens up other traits for them to use. Shadow Arts V got a mechanics change (only initiative gain on initially entering stealth) which probably makes perma D/P stealth impossible now—I haven’t tested. S/x skill 2 got a small nerf (.25s return cast time).

This a 1000 times.

I am SICK AND TIRED over this! The overpowered perma-stealth built is a big issue in WVW for over a YEAR now! And ANet did NOTHING to remedy it for all the time! Yeah now the patch day happend, and guess what … Perma Stealth is STILL there.

Thanks for nothing ANET.

Sorry, but if you don’t see this is a big issue you just have no clue of the concept of open pvp in MMOs. Stealth per se is something that tends to kill open pvp, but perma-stealth is, as EVERY open PVP expert KNOWS FOR YEARS, is a BIG NO GO. Something everyone in the instustry KNOWS you do not do, period, paragraph.

Is that so hard to get?

Give Thieves other toys, but for Gods Sake eliminate the frigging perma stealth after over a year!

elikal.7356:

This a 1000 times.

I am SICK AND TIRED over this! The overpowered perma-stealth built is a big issue in WVW for over a YEAR now! And ANet did NOTHING to remedy it for all the time! Yeah now the patch day happend, and guess what … Perma Stealth is STILL there.

Will you say the same in all the threads and create new ones with the same topic one and again and again?
There are several methods to counter stealth, learn to use them; stealth traps, ranger´s pet skill and so on.
To continue your crusade with false arguments will not take you anywhere.

Best,

Haltair, one of the twelve shadows

they need to add a detect skill maybe a skill that only detects for each class with varying quirks on range and distance on how it works. not to mention the way skills lock when your in battle if you see the thief you can prepare to fight him (Equip detect skill) if he gets to you before you see him then yea. your locked in combat. I have seen a whole zerg try to chase down one thief stealth / teleport only way a thief will really die if he/she is good is if they let you them kill them.

They nerf this and i will never play theif in wvw again.
Its actually quite useful for scouting.
Unfortunately thats pretty much the only thing they are good at.

Rei Hino.5961:

they need to add a detect skill maybe a skill that only detects for each class with varying quirks on range and distance on how it works. not to mention the way skills lock when your in battle if you see the thief you can prepare to fight him (Equip detect skill) if he gets to you before you see him then yea. your locked in combat. I have seen a whole zerg try to chase down one thief stealth / teleport only way a thief will really die if he/she is good is if they let you them kill them.

Should they add other skills that are a complete hard counter to every other build that can kill you too?

Haha, this topic again. Small word of advice: don’t roam in WvW if you can’t handle an occassional thief ganking you. There’s plenty of people on all kind of professions who can do very well against thieves, yet it’s the same people who come and complain on the forums all the time. If you can’t be bothered to learn how to play against a thief, go to your blob and stay there. You won’t be finding many thieves there.

elikal.7356:

This a 1000 times.

I am SICK AND TIRED over this! The overpowered perma-stealth built is a big issue in WVW for over a YEAR now! And ANet did NOTHING to remedy it for all the time! Yeah now the patch day happend, and guess what … Perma Stealth is STILL there.

Even assuming perma stealth still exists and is viable as a build at all (to kill anything other than chickens that is), how is this a big issue for WvW for over a year? Other than hiding in a keep to ress a mesmer, in which case you could just get yourself a stealth trap, there’s absolutely no impact an overly on stealth reliant thief would have on WvW.