Guild Wars 2

^speak for yourself. I enjoy fighting theves on my warrior, some of the most fun fights. And I enjoy playing thief as well. I don’t enjoy having broken mechanics available to my class though.

it’s not only the capping it’s also the fighting thieves. I am having a really hard time fighting a group of 8 thieves against maybe 5 of us. the keep getting invisible and then attack you out of the blue. it happened quite often that i walked into a seemingly empty camp and was surprised by 8 of them popping up. the weir thing is even if they attack they stay invisible some time which is not the case for a mesmer. the moment i attack my mass invisibility dissappears. i tjust think thieves are op in wvsw as they can stop u from capping and kill u very quickly. they heal way to fast too and u cannot attack them if they are invisible.its just frustrating after a while.

Stealth preventing point capture needs to be changed.

The stealth spamming breaking target lock over and over is a major problem with the game design, too, imo. It’s basically CC. This actually also can apply to clone-spamming mesmers. In both cases, you’re basically shutdown to just spamming non-targetted AE in the hopes of killing something.

Stealthed reviving allies and downing enemies needs to also be removed from the game.

Zephyrus.9680:

^speak for yourself. I enjoy fighting theves on my warrior, some of the most fun fights. And I enjoy playing thief as well. I don’t enjoy having broken mechanics available to my class though.

Sure, it’s fun playing a thief. I’ve had a ganker character in every game that’s had it available to troll around in MMOs. I had a sin in in AoC, a rogue in WoW, an op and a sin in ToR, a thief here for spvp etc. All with the express purpose of using them to roll around and gank people using the IWin alpha strike mechanics of invisibility and burst along with the easy “oh crap, unfavorable, run away” capability that comes with it.

Yup, it’s just my opinion but it has remained the same about stealth based ganker classes in MMO’s with pvp and probably will never change.

As a thief, we do need to prevent the ability to stop capping while stealth or have a minimum number of players to do it. In sPvP, thieves cannot stop a cap in stealth. So I wonder if ANet prefers this tactic in WvW.

Either way, as a thief, if I can hold up 30+ players on a supply camp, then I’m going to keep doing it. It might sound stupid on those 30+ players side, but if I can keep 30+ players away from a tower or keep nearby so the rest of my server can regroup or prepare, then I will do the stealth capping. It makes no sense for me NOT to do it while I can. Yeah, it’s dirty, but the thieves that do this do not exploit the culling bug to do so. They have a healing skill that stealths, a refuge, blinding powder, cloak & dagger, and traits.

HabibLoew.2590:

In an upcoming patch the WvW capture points will be updated to follow the same rules as the PvP capture points with respect to invisibility & invulnerability. As a result invisible & invulnerable players will no longer contest capture points.

Sweet.

HabibLoew.2590:

In an upcoming patch the WvW capture points will be updated to follow the same rules as the PvP capture points with respect to invisibility & invulnerability. As a result invisible & invulnerable players will no longer contest capture points.

cool, problem solved in an efficient and fair manner to everyone, thanks!

Ermergerd we don’t have to see this forum clogged with these threads anymore!

good news…
So I don’t need to explain clueless people who suggest some pointless stuff like huddling up the difference between a CnD build and a perma invis anymore. Sweet.
I kinda gave up on people learning the diff anyways… :X

Elthuzar.9478:

I don’t personally do this but I also don’t see how this is an exploit. It is using your professions ability to an advantage, no different from a mesmer portalling 30 people in a surprise attack.

Apples and oranges mate….2 totally different things. Mez has a 20s portal that is useless if your team sweeps and cleans out the mezs before leaving. They dont sweep and enemy portals inside, thats your fault, not the mez. The portal is nowhere near OP, as it has a very very very simple negate to it — sweep for mesmers. (i’ll concur with the portaling in of folks also has the rendering bug issue involved which needs fixing, but the portal itself is minor and easily avoided)

Thieves perma stealth on the other hand…its lame. The “just AoE the area” is bout lame as the “area” is a 6k-8k diameter circle, short of a large AoE zerging it, there’s near nothing u can do until the thieve makes a mistake.

I vote to simply make the cap circle no larger than any of the other cap circles on the maps. Circle the supervisor like at all the other points.

Drednyte.7601:

Elthuzar.9478:

I don’t personally do this but I also don’t see how this is an exploit. It is using your professions ability to an advantage, no different from a mesmer portalling 30 people in a surprise attack.

Apples and oranges mate….2 totally different things. Mez has a 20s portal that is useless if your team sweeps and cleans out the mezs before leaving. They dont sweep and enemy portals inside, thats your fault, not the mez. The portal is nowhere near OP, as it has a very very very simple negate to it — sweep for mesmers. (i’ll concur with the portaling in of folks also has the rendering bug issue involved which needs fixing, but the portal itself is minor and easily avoided)

Thieves perma stealth on the other hand…its lame. The “just AoE the area” is bout lame as the “area” is a 6k-8k diameter circle, short of a large AoE zerging it, there’s near nothing u can do until the thieve makes a mistake.

I vote to simply make the cap circle no larger than any of the other cap circles on the maps. Circle the supervisor like at all the other points.

Fix was posted by Dev, why still arguing over it?

HabibLoew.2590:

In an upcoming patch the WvW capture points will be updated to follow the same rules as the PvP capture points with respect to invisibility & invulnerability. As a result invisible & invulnerable players will no longer contest capture points.

This is wonderful news

Hey all I started this thread. Ill take the heat for it. Look here’S the deal. No its nor exploiting as in taking advantage of a Glitch like scaling walls or anything. But is is annoying as heck that rendering issues cause a Profession to be a Bit OP IMO. As i stated before I play a thief. All I wanted from this post was to find out a general feel for how folks are dealing with this Perm stealth thing. Now i See that People don’t liek the term " Perm Stealth " but that’s all semantics the reality of it is that you don’t really as a thief have to ever show yourself if you don’t want. As long as you don’t make mistakes in the use of your abilities. Now I agree with the whole not letting thieves in stealth prevent capping i think this is a novel Idea. Tho it still dosn’t resolve the issue of them being abuil to drop there target form others at a whim by just spamming a few skills. Now I see people complain that there is no Difference between them holding off caps then a mezzy doing portal bombs. – I would like to point out tho that they have tried to patch the mezzy ports to make it a lil tuffer but have done nothing about the stealth issue.

Now To my fellow thieves. Look here’s the brass tax of this whole discussion when it comes to OUR profession. All this perm stealth complaints and what not is fair form the perspective of other Professions. We can keep them from capping and we can make them drop target anytime we want. I know stealth is our major survival ability .. honestly with our lack of armor and hps its prity much how we stay alive. and how we do our dmg. But if you guys keep doing this no cap Perms stealth deal all the time the end result will be, They will keep complaining and it will get our Prof Nerfed to all heck and the underlining issue with this is that nerfs never turn out the right way they always hurt way more than they are intended. So for the sake of your own Profession and for the sake of all other thieves – FOR goodness sake Don’t go and get us all nerfed because you want to grief capers. If someone earns the supply or what ever let them have it nothing says you cant wait 3 mins to get it back.

- Let me know where you all stand on this ?

HabibLoew.2590:

In an upcoming patch the WvW capture points will be updated to follow the same rules as the PvP capture points with respect to invisibility & invulnerability. As a result invisible & invulnerable players will no longer contest capture points.

^^ this solves it. thank you Habib for posting this and updating us. Now, this argument of keeping resources camps held with perma-stealth thieves is over and we can return to discussing the real issues: fractals and the requirement to grind them, warriors and 25k hits, mesmers and portals oh god portals, and last but not least, why oh why do so many thieves try to look like they’re from Assassins Creed?

okay, the fractals are really an issue… the rest were just a joke

FireRunner.9481:

Thief stealth skills are EXTREMELY overpowered. It is ridiculous one class has this much power over all over classes. I have seen thief and thief go stealth 3 times in a row countless times. They need to do something such as:

1. Add longer timer to being able to re-stealth.
2. Remove stealth if player is damaged.
3. Not allow player to move if in stealth mode.

As of right now thieves are almost gods in PvP. It’s so ridiculous it’s stupid.

Hallmark post of a terrible player. You don’t understand the class so you can’t fight it. Learn the class so you don’t make these posts that make you look like a QQing zergling.

Flames aside, I highly recommend you play the Thief to level 30 or so. It doesn’t take long and will do wonders for your understanding of the mechanics. Yes, the theif class mechanics are so different than all others that it requires this little extra effort to combat them. Doing this for all classes never hurts your ability to PvP though.

I still don’t get what your guys problem is.
If you can’t kill him, don’t bother trying. Just walk away. It was a different story with capping points but that’s gonna be fixed.

Good job ArenaNet, See where structured criticism gets us.^^

Yes fix this now

Q: Will thieves still get event credit for capturing nodes if they happen to be in stealth on the completion “tick?”

I assumed that was the reason stealth worked the way it did in WvW.

Aeden.5896:

Q: Will thieves still get event credit for capturing nodes if they happen to be in stealth on the completion “tick?”

I assumed that was the reason stealth worked the way it did in WvW.

Yes, I’ve left a camp after fighting a little while and gotten a gold half way across the map when it finally gets taken.

FireRunner.9481:

Thief stealth skills are EXTREMELY overpowered. It is ridiculous one class has this much power over all over classes. I have seen thief and thief go stealth 3 times in a row countless times. They need to do something such as:

1. Add longer timer to being able to re-stealth.
2. Remove stealth if player is damaged.
3. Not allow player to move if in stealth mode.

As of right now thieves are almost gods in PvP. It’s so ridiculous it’s stupid.

you ask the same like :
remove damage from ranger pets
remove skills from ranger pets
do not alow rangers to move as long as pets are summoned

I would assume that if you did not kill the NPC’s and you’re stealthed throughout the duration of the circle, that you will not receive credit.

that’s just an assumption tho, so to be safe I would simply be out of stealth during the cap

its a shame the thief and the mesmer were the only two things in this game that were sorta innovative and interesting with the stealth and the portaling and cloning but with all the whining and the nerfing going on that by the time this game reaches its 6 month anniversary these classes are gonna be useless. I mean what else is there to hold your interest and keep people coming back the fact that people are allowing a thief to hold a point contested is just sad it takes a minium of effort to find him and kill him but it seems the whiners are winning. Should have just left the thief the way it was a fun and challenging class, i mean what did ya want to play a ranger and a bear lol

I’ve seen it a few times already – what’s irritating is that you have to target someone to report them, and permastealth ensures not only that they can exploit with impunity, but that no one will find out about it through normal means.

At least add a Name field to the dialog box (and populate it with the name of a targeted player, if one is targeted) so we can report such issues.

As a thief, I am glad they are doing this. Its too easy to hold a point for ~5mins while waiting for the zerg.

HabibLoew.2590:

In an upcoming patch the WvW capture points will be updated to follow the same rules as the PvP capture points with respect to invisibility & invulnerability. As a result invisible & invulnerable players will no longer contest capture points.

This will help somewhat – thanks!

@selan Did you think your 5 was going to beat 8 Thieves? Would your 5 beat 8 Mesmers? 8 Elementalists? 8 Guardians?

Thanx HabibLoew, for the update.
FireRunner: Let me add some more points to your list, to get that “godmode” off those crappy little thiefs for once and all:
1 – remove weapon slots from thiefes.
2 – reduce thiefs lifepool for AT LEAST 50%.
3 – why not remove stealth completely, as we are allready at it.

then, MAYBE, thiefs are somewhat balanced. Did I get you right?

Aysnvaust.7046:

Thanx HabibLoew, for the update.
FireRunner: Let me add some more points to your list, to get that “godmode” off those crappy little thiefs for once and all:
1 – remove weapon slots from thiefes.
2 – reduce thiefs lifepool for AT LEAST 50%.
3 – why not remove stealth completely, as we are allready at it.

then, MAYBE, thiefs are somewhat balanced. Did I get you right?

wait wait, thieves still have traps and dagger storm. and don’t think think 50% is a bit off? Shouldn’t it be closer to 75%?

Please. My cousin is a thief and even he says he’s insanely overpowered. He’s also got a 80 Mesmer and says that class is overpowered in PvP.

I’m calling it as I see it. If you honestly think thieves are not overpowered you’re wearing blinders. Also, I was suggesting just ONE of the three items I listed be applied…not all three. Just one would balance out the class. And, don’t even try to compare ranger pets to stealth. Ranger pets are like gnats (and their DPS is the same). Unbreakable invisibility is ridiculous to have as a skill. You really want to compare ranger pets to unbreakable invisibility? Really?

Thieves are fine. Plenty of ways to stop a thief, it’s just easier to qq on forums than figuring it out.

HabibLoew.2590:

In an upcoming patch the WvW capture points will be updated to follow the same rules as the PvP capture points with respect to invisibility & invulnerability. As a result invisible & invulnerable players will no longer contest capture points.

Thanks for this refreshing update. I’m glad to hear you all plan to implement an elegant and effective solution to this problem. Please keep us in the loop like this moving forward; these updates are awesome news.

FireRunner.9481:

Please. My cousin is a thief and even he says he’s insanely overpowered. He’s also got a 80 Mesmer and says that class is overpowered in PvP.

I’m calling it as I see it. If you honestly think thieves are not overpowered you’re wearing blinders. Also, I was suggesting just ONE of the three items I listed be applied…not all three. Just one would balance out the class. And, don’t even try to compare ranger pets to stealth. Ranger pets are like gnats (and their DPS is the same). Unbreakable invisibility is ridiculous to have as a skill. You really want to compare ranger pets to unbreakable invisibility? Really?

Well, my brothers mothers fathers sisters friends uncle say’s that Mesmers are OP and thieves are kittened…..

seriously man? LOL

IF you understood the thief class, how it operates, it’s weaknesses, and it’s abilities (actual, not implied just here on forums) you would see the error in your thinking.

I play both a Guardian and a Thief. Thieves are funny little things to kill with my guardian, and I love playing my thief. I don’t believe thieves are OP what-so-ever aside from capping / preventing while invis. And this isn’t coming from my brothers mothers fathers sisters friends uncle.

FireRunner.9481:

Please. My cousin is a thief and even he says he’s insanely overpowered. He’s also got a 80 Mesmer and says that class is overpowered in PvP.

I’m calling it as I see it. If you honestly think thieves are not overpowered you’re wearing blinders. Also, I was suggesting just ONE of the three items I listed be applied…not all three. Just one would balance out the class. And, don’t even try to compare ranger pets to stealth. Ranger pets are like gnats (and their DPS is the same). Unbreakable invisibility is ridiculous to have as a skill. You really want to compare ranger pets to unbreakable invisibility? Really?

My uncle is a half necrorangerwarrior and he says the thief is op true story.
nerf thieves.

I can see the future:

“Please nerf thieves, they lurk invis near capture points and retake the point as soon as we leave!”.

Anyways, as a thief I wasn’t bothered by other thieves doing this, found this boring to do and care not that this is changed.

TBH, I kinda agree with the complaints against Mesmer and Thieves. I really think the constant target breaking functionality available to these classes is too good, especially in WvW. I’m not sure how much thought Arenanet has really put into it, but constantly having to find and reaquire the target to do anything but unload AOE in what you hope is the right direction isn’t particularly fun imo. I think the game could benefit from sort of ability/boon like True Seeing available to classes to slot as a Utility/Elite skill, something like that. I know Mes/Thief would cry about it and maybe need readjustment, but the inability to have any counter to what’s effectively a CC ability (target breaking) is pretty bad design, especially for as often as those classes can do it. It’s really, really awful to deal with in big fights.

Thanks for fixing the capture point thief exploit, but seriously this perma
stealth while fighting needs to be fixed.

Stealth was implemented much better in Daoc. If a person is engaged in a
fight then they should have none or at least limited stealthing capabilities.
Maybe increasing the timers would help? Perhaps adding abilities for some
classes that could make going into stealth for a limited amount of time impossible.

No way should a thief be able to take on 3 or 4 people and win. I have
been in fights where I never even see the thief once during the whole fight.

Also spiking while invisible is a little to much don’t you think? On a side
note I don’t believe the guardian aoe knock back works on stealthed spikers,
this needs to be fixed.

The bottom line is something needs to be done with the Thief class.
Please <I said it nicely.

Phatkillz.5938:

Thanks for fixing the capture point thief exploit, but seriously this perma
stealth while fighting needs to be fixed.

Stealth was implemented much better in Daoc. If a person is engaged in a
fight then they should have none or at least limited stealthing capabilities.
Maybe increasing the timers would help? Perhaps adding abilities for some
classes that could make going into stealth for a limited amount of time impossible.

No way should a thief be able to take on 3 or 4 people and win. I have
been in fights where I never even see the thief once during the whole fight.

Also spiking while invisible is a little to much don’t you think? On a side
note I don’t believe the guardian aoe knock back works on stealthed spikers,
this needs to be fixed.

The bottom line is something needs to be done with the Thief class.
Please <I said it nicely.

“I have
been in fights where I never even see the thief once during the whole fight. "

That’s the sad part! But people still defend it with their lives!
And you are not the only person who had enough of it! Tons of people!
Just look around at other parts of the forum. People stopped playing sPvP because of this already.

If this thing will not get some fix, people will leave. Because it’s frustration.

yes mesmers are strong in pvp but in wvsw i think the only class that got me sooo frustrated is the thieves.

there was a group of 8 thieves running around messing and trolling us at our camps. we were 5. we walk in the camp no one there we cap the camp and then boom! all of the sudden they attack us out of nowhere.

as a mesmer im at least able to survive for a while. but they are able to revive each other all the time. we cant even prevent them from reviving, they are nearly dead then go into stealth come out fully revived, can attack us even in stealth, can now since the new update pull me off a kitten tower!, stay almost perma invisible and their attacks are way to strong,

My mesmer gets some ok damage but those thieves get me down form 20k health to 1 k in like 2 attacks. and then they even laugh at u after the slaughtered u.

Anet, i am sorry but u guys have to nerf thieves for wvsw plz. i gave up after 2 hours of humiliation and was happy to go to another map where i could fight real players that dont have to press 2 buttons to kill u, players that are actually really good and fun to fight.

Phatkillz.5938:

Also spiking while invisible is a little to much don’t you think? On a side note I don’t believe the guardian aoe knock back works on stealthed spikers, this needs to be fixed.

They’re probably using Blinding Powder to stealth which stealths them and blinds you. Blind makes your knock back miss…

Thieves aren’t Op at all. Take stealth away from them, and they are not a thief.

The real problem is the rendering issue which Anet fails to address and “fix” (can it even be fixed?). Anyways, nerfing thieves into the ground isn’t a good solution.

vsutra.8214:

Columba.9730:

Fiction.6418:

I have fought many of these thieves, my opinion is.. wow you guys actually have problems killing a thief even in stealth? L2p

Looks at signature, yep as expected.

Actually, thieves inherently just know how to counter other thieves. It’s not that he’s defending the act, he’s merely pointing out that it’s not that hard to take that thief down. Something I noticed people rarely observe is, thieves actually target thieves a lot, at least that’s my experience.

How many here can truly say they have never killed a thief in stealth? Random aoes, wild-swinging melees. Poof, there appears a thief, one arm stretched pining for the day when he was in stealth and not laying down in the mercy of his opponents.

Thieves like to move from cover to cover, even in stealth. while culling issues of course exist, but half the time I notice people just throw up their hands and scream in frustration when the thief is actually just hiding out of your los.

I have never died in stealth, ever. How can you get hit by AEs when they show a big red circle on the ground, and dodge rolls negate all damage? AEs are the easiest thing in this game to avoid.

Nethril.7413:

Aysnvaust.7046:

Thanx HabibLoew, for the update.
FireRunner: Let me add some more points to your list, to get that “godmode” off those crappy little thiefs for once and all:
1 – remove weapon slots from thiefes.
2 – reduce thiefs lifepool for AT LEAST 50%.
3 – why not remove stealth completely, as we are allready at it.

then, MAYBE, thiefs are somewhat balanced. Did I get you right?

wait wait, thieves still have traps and dagger storm. and don’t think think 50% is a bit off? Shouldn’t it be closer to 75%?

honestly removing all that would be too much i think.
i think thieves should be fast and have stealth, just not that long. u cannot remove EVERYTHING as long as i can hit them even when they are in stealth im fine with it or maybe also something to take’em out of stealth.

same with mesmers.
u cannot remove clones as this is what makes our spec. we are good at confusing the enemy, but mesmers die a lot too, but like with thieves there are some pople that abuse certain things in this class. Iprefer fighting fair and using my skills rather than always hide in stealth as a mesmer. btw our cooldowns except for the torch are very long and stealth is only like 5s for that.

Stiv.1820:

Hallmark post of a terrible player. You don’t understand the class so you can’t fight it. Learn the class so you don’t make these posts that make you look like a QQing zergling.

Flames aside, I highly recommend you play the Thief to level 30 or so. It doesn’t take long and will do wonders for your understanding of the mechanics. Yes, the theif class mechanics are so different than all others that it requires this little extra effort to combat them. Doing this for all classes never hurts your ability to PvP though.

It is absolutely correct that playing every class, not just a thief, is the best way to improve your understanding class strengths and weaknesses.

At the same time though, and please understand I’m not sympathizing with the crybabies, do consider that WvW is supposed to be the gateway format for players that would otherwise not play PvP. It’s generally a terrible concept that neither satisfies hardcore players or casual players, but as it is, stealth and thieves in general are what frustrates noobs the most, and it simply encourages a lot of them to quit WvW after a short period of time, or roll their own thief to faceroll other noobs. Fewer players and less class diversity are not positives.

Archer.1658:

Thieves aren’t Op at all. Take stealth away from them, and they are not a thief.

The real problem is the rendering issue which Anet fails to address and “fix” (can it even be fixed?). Anyways, nerfing thieves into the ground isn’t a good solution.

The have addressed this and have indicated they are working on solutions for this https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Can-you-fix-it-culling/first#post758110

Phatkillz.5938:

this perma
stealth while fighting needs to be fixed.

Stealth was implemented much better in Daoc. If a person is engaged in a
fight then they should have none or at least limited stealthing capabilities.
Maybe increasing the timers would help? Perhaps adding abilities for some
classes that could make going into stealth for a limited amount of time impossible.
…
Also spiking while invisible is a little to much don’t you think? On a side
note I don’t believe the guardian aoe knock back works on stealthed spikers,
this needs to be fixed.

Thieves already have limited stealthing capabilities whether they’re engaged in a fight or not. Either they’re actively using several abilities and combos to maintain stealth outside of combat or they’re using a stealth-on-attack ability that requires a target rich environment and precludes engaging in actual combat.

Spiking while stealthed is easier to counter than either stability or invulnerability stomps, neither of which are really accessible to thieves. And guardian knockback works fine against it, although it can be avoided by a thief with some incredible timing.

I sincerely laughed out loud when someone said the 29387562348759629345 threads about this issue was “constructive criticism”. Thanks fella, that made my day.

selan.8354:

yes mesmers are strong in pvp but in wvsw i think the only class that got me sooo frustrated is the thieves.

there was a group of 8 thieves running around messing and trolling us at our camps. we were 5. we walk in the camp no one there we cap the camp and then boom! all of the sudden they attack us out of nowhere.

as a mesmer im at least able to survive for a while. but they are able to revive each other all the time. we cant even prevent them from reviving, they are nearly dead then go into stealth come out fully revived, can attack us even in stealth, can now since the new update pull me off a kitten tower!, stay almost perma invisible and their attacks are way to strong,

My mesmer gets some ok damage but those thieves get me down form 20k health to 1 k in like 2 attacks. and then they even laugh at u after the slaughtered u.

Anet, i am sorry but u guys have to nerf thieves for wvsw plz. i gave up after 2 hours of humiliation and was happy to go to another map where i could fight real players that dont have to press 2 buttons to kill u, players that are actually really good and fun to fight.

I think, It wasn’t half bad then if you cry about them reviving eachother.
Just imagining right now if it had been 8 d/d elementalists… You wouldn’t even be able to cry about them reviving eachother or “being able to survive a bit more than the rest”. All 5 of you’d die simultaneously within 3-6 seconds, depending on position.
A hint: a team of 8 organized players should kill a team of 5 players regardless.

HabibLoew.2590:

In an upcoming patch the WvW capture points will be updated to follow the same rules as the PvP capture points with respect to invisibility & invulnerability. As a result invisible & invulnerable players will no longer contest capture points.

Well thats nice. Now you guys planning on doing something about the Ele’s ability to turn to myst and run through doors when downed? Kind of messed up that they get to do that, and we cant do anything to stop them(Really? No cripple or immoble? Did you guys decide to let the interns make the choices that day?). That and the fact that they are the only ones who get to do that.