Guild Wars 2

these guys are totally ruining small gang pvp right now. when are these runes getting an ICD? no one should be able to stack 25 confusion in seconds on multiple targets. over and over again.

The current state of condi damage is pretty insane. I keep thinking it will level out as builds develop that can manage the incoming condi spam but so far tanky-high damage condi builds are ruling the roost.

@Mist I agree perplexity needs an icd and/or shorter confusion duration. They were probably busy doing ascended/SAB/teq stuffs this patch.

@ Straegen cond eng hasn’t changed much for a long time outside of these runes. They weren’t being complained about before. Hopefully won’t be complained about after they fix these runes.

A third option, folks, is to lower the stacks said Runes apply. /shrug

i agree they need an icd…..buuuuut with that being said i am guilty of crafting 50+ runes and selling for mad gold yo! #slinginOPgear

Aberrant.6749:

@ Straegen cond eng hasn’t changed much for a long time outside of these runes. They weren’t being complained about before. Hopefully won’t be complained about after they fix these runes.

Being able to stack 25 confusion on top of other conditions from a bunker at range is a tough fight for other classes. Even with good removal, players still have to crack a heavy bunker class.

As for condi damage in general such as necros, yes that damage has always been there much like the speed/interrupt warrior has always been there but that doesn’t change the fact they are dominating WvW right now. Not just dominating one aspect either… some of these classes/builds have become go to munchkin classes in solo, skirmish and zerg play. Good to see necros and warriors see their just due but some sort of adjustment (I would argue small not big) is IMO in order.

This issue has fallen on deaf ears…I don’t expect a fix, no matter how many times it is trumpeted. Also, I’m waiting on the people that suggest you “stop spamming” to defeat such players. I wish my class could defeat another by doing nothing, as they suggest, while being loaded with condis. Maybe there is some uber-retaliation-vs-condi build I am missing.

Straegen.2938:

Aberrant.6749:

@ Straegen cond eng hasn’t changed much for a long time outside of these runes. They weren’t being complained about before. Hopefully won’t be complained about after they fix these runes.

Being able to stack 25 confusion on top of other conditions from a bunker at range is a tough fight for other classes. Even with good removal, players still have to crack a heavy bunker class.

As for condi damage in general such as necros, yes that damage has always been there much like the speed/interrupt warrior has always been there but that doesn’t change the fact they are dominating WvW right now. Not just dominating one aspect either… some of these classes/builds have become go to munchkin classes in solo, skirmish and zerg play. Good to see necros and warriors see their just due but some sort of adjustment (I would argue small not big) is IMO in order.

In larger groups conditions get cleansed far more quickly and aren’t as much of an issue vs roaming/small group stuffs imo.

I play both cond and non-cond classes (I play all 5 of my 80’s in wvw, but mostly eng)… other than the runes I find it to be pretty balanced overall. The runes are just over the frekkin’ top and I’m surprised they haven’t been changed yet… but they’ve been busy I guess.

While I’m not sure of this, I think the rune got added for the mesmer considering the recent buffs to the interrupt build.

Bringing this rune in the game actually made me play my mesmer again as confusion was suddenly viable again.

Now the rune might be overpowered on the engineer, I think it’s perfectly in line for the mesmer.

Nerfing the rune, would not mean nerfing the engineer, it would mean nerfing all classes using the rune and it would make the confusion mesmer a joke again.

MartyPartys.9187:

Now the rune might be overpowered on the engineer, I think it’s perfectly in line for the mesmer.

Nerfing the rune, would not mean nerfing the engineer, it would mean nerfing all classes using the rune and it would make the confusion mesmer a joke again.

Condi damage is manageable to the point where a player is out of cleanses. If two or more condi builds are around it is impossible to keep ranged condition damage off most classes. In addition this particular condi damage is applied on a defensive skill (interrupt). So a player completely stops incoming damage (via the interrupt) and applies a nice pop of damage on top of it.

This runeset works for a class that isn’t heavy in stuns, doesn’t have a solid bunker design and is used solo. The solo mesmer fits this but practically every other situation can “abuse” it.

Its not just the Engineer, Warriors are even more stupid. But the perplexity runes are just a joke. Cannot believe theyve been untouched for so long.

Engineers and Conditions in general, look theyve been in this state since launch. They gotten a few minor buffs, minor nerfs, the big Confusion nerf months ago. And even before the Confusion nerf not a soul complained about Engineers. There hasnt been some magical buff that suddenly pushed Condition Engineer above and beyond what it was capable of before, like what happend with the Necro.

Its only the runes. Fighting confusion-engies prior to the runes was reasonable as I could just pace myself, time bursts, and cleanse after he popped his confusions. Now, you get interrupted mid-burst everytime and have no opportunity to attack. Just silly.

this the rune that adds confusion? turn auto-attack off and problem solved, no?

I ran into a condition / perplexity runes warrior on my dps-spike thief…. Wow is all I can say.

After killing me once, I grouped him and we tested his confusion without trying to kill eachother. He could, with one attack combo, which I neglected to ask what he was doing sadly, he was stacking 12 confusion at a time, 15ish seconds duration. The damage wakittenting for 2100 an action.

Let me put that into a different perspective. Thief dagger/dagger autoattack is 3 quick strikes. It takes just over a second for that 3 swing cycle.

3 seconds of autoattacking would kill me.
1 death blossom would damage me 6300 damage.

Healing myself for 5k would make me take 40% of that in damage back.

It’s hilarious.

Bunker → Spam Condi’s → Profit

Totally Balanced
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWJt2shZGXI

Looking at the condition meta, it’s even more hilarious that they just added that condi/vit/toughness stat type.

kinda obvious wvw is a lame step child. its been a year, all weve gotten is PvE imbalance. get what fun you have left out of the game and just leave, its not getting better. trust me on that one

i still cant believe this hasnt been hot patched yet. WvW duels and small gang skirms have been totally hijacked by cheese confusion engies.

Sambuca.9754:

this the rune that adds confusion? turn auto-attack off and problem solved, no?

Not at all. To even suggest this shows serious naivety.

When mesmers had strong confusion they gave up a LOT for it and were very poor dmg wise if you didn’t attack. These runes allow you to keep all your other on demand conds PLUS stack confusion like a boss. So no… just turning off auto attack won’t work.

Just a little clip to show how easy it is to apply confusion on a target while using the perplexity runes.

Please! Cap condition duration, stop putting all conditions on 1 ability, remove the AoE limit and add a cooldown to the perplexity runes. These changes would make me a much happier person…

if you want it fixed you need to find hugh in game and spam confusion on him

otherwise youre just too vague

Forums is always the vocal minority. Players who aren’t here can deal with this easily. L2P issue, again.

kuora.5402:

Forums is always the vocal minority. Players who aren’t here can deal with this easily. L2P issue, again.

You seriously defending these runes? Just stop it, they are borderline broken and should have been fixed to put them in line.

You should see a condi thief spamming pistol #4. With Dire (appropriate name) stats.

TheGreatA.4192:

You should see a condi thief spamming pistol #4. With Dire (appropriate name) stats.

saw this last night in a duel actually. dude would drop confusion and blind on his opponents over and over and over. They practically couldn’t do anything, GG, duel over lol.

Sambuca.9754:

this the rune that adds confusion? turn auto-attack off and problem solved, no?

and let them kill you since you can’t attack back…yeah, great suggestion

i think there should be DR on how many stacks and on duration for such conditions

you can go in stealth/blind someone only 3 times for example and it gets cleared pretty fast, why not do same for confusion?

These runes are over the top atm, but I find it hilarious that people are complaining about the least played class in the game. Before the patch the engineer had 2 damage weapons to choose from. What this rune did was turn the shield into an offensive rather than purely defensive weapon. They should limit the stacks rather than put an icd. If they keep adding icd’s to offensive procs, then I want icd on retaliation so I don’t get hit with 10 stacks every time I throw a grenade.

Dodge, block, condition cleanse, lemon grass, melandru, etc, etc, etc,…

Its not just engineers but all bunker/interrupt/condi builds. Most bunker heavy classes can take advantage. Engineers are an obvious target because they can apply a lot of different conditions quickly (which makes getting the big ones more difficult to remove), bunker easily and when traited have a crazy good range.

Less experienced players continue to complain about direct damage builds (well thief and warrior anyway) which has been fairly well balanced in duels for a while but hardly notice condi damage changes (necro, engi, mesmer, warrior) which has come on strong in the duel scene. Changes in in duels and GvG often come to dominate the general WvW landscape as the builds become more refined.

Sorry that I’m interupting your selfwhiping orgy but did you consider using Stability?

My warrior is stomping those perplexity engies xD

Dasboba.1652:

These runes are over the top atm, but I find it hilarious that people are complaining about the least played class in the game. Before the patch the engineer had 2 damage weapons to choose from. What this rune did was turn the shield into an offensive rather than purely defensive weapon. They should limit the stacks rather than put an icd. If they keep adding icd’s to offensive procs, then I want icd on retaliation so I don’t get hit with 10 stacks every time I throw a grenade.

right now it’s the most played class in duels. because of the runes, but still, broken.

this isnt a l2p issue, dont make me laugh.

The rune is overpowered on ANY class if you stack up condition damage. Just autoattacking with my sword on warrior stacks up a ton of confusion. Get even more if I actually bother interrupting them. It’s definitely got to be bugged. there’s no way they intended them to be this powerful. ALL runes that have some sort of proc on then have an ICD. Perplexity does not. And you people don’t see anything wrong with that? You KNOW it’s a mistake, stop denying it. It needs a cooldown just like every single other rune in the game that has a proc on it.

how is it any different from running into a mesmer or mesmers?

Straegen.2938:

Less experienced players continue to complain about direct damage builds (well thief and warrior anyway) which has been fairly well balanced in duels for a while but hardly notice condi damage changes (necro, engi, mesmer, warrior) which has come on strong in the duel scene. Changes in in duels and GvG often come to dominate the general WvW landscape as the builds become more refined.

Probably because condi damage doesn’t show up in the combat log. When they die quickly they look at the combat log and see that thief backstab or that warrior 100b for a ton of damage.

It’s pretty insane when condition builds use this. Even with my thief who has extreme condition removal, the counter-play is tedious as hell.

Soon this thread with have the very hard to pull off scenario of hammer warriors killing whole zergs with necros and epi backing them up. Cause Zergs run with no Guardians passively handing off aegis and they will just let the warriors run up and not melt them. Then inb4 you just need 8 mesmers to stealth the warriors and necro’s.

oZii.2864:

Soon this thread with have the very hard to pull off scenario of hammer warriors killing whole zergs with necros and epi backing them up. Cause Zergs run with no Guardians passively handing off aegis and they will just let the warriors run up and not melt them. Then inb4 you just need 8 mesmers to stealth the warriors and necro’s.

Since when do you need more than 1-2 mesmers to stealth a large group of people?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Veil

Aberrant.6749:

oZii.2864:

Soon this thread with have the very hard to pull off scenario of hammer warriors killing whole zergs with necros and epi backing them up. Cause Zergs run with no Guardians passively handing off aegis and they will just let the warriors run up and not melt them. Then inb4 you just need 8 mesmers to stealth the warriors and necro’s.

Since when do you need more than 1-2 mesmers to stealth a large group of people?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Veil

Oh we are having a discussion on how Mesmers stealth works? Oh I must have missed that part. Uhh I guess you want to be right in a point I wasn’t talking about. Yes veil doesn’t have a limit I know this. Are you happy now? Thanks for the intermission Mr. Wiki.

Now back on topic about these runes.

Viking Jorun.5413:

It’s pretty insane when condition builds use this. Even with my thief who has extreme condition removal, the counter-play is tedious as hell.

No offense, but stop arguing from a thief point of view.
It wont add anything useful to the topic.

@topic:
I main engineer since bwe1 and right now i abuse this rune like there is no tomorrow.
ITs OP, everyone knows it and only fools or beginners deny that. Srsly you can build a character which main source of damage is this rune and it will work.
I would like to try some of the other new condition-damage runes but i cant. This rune is so strong that it outshines every other condition-rune available.

oZii.2864:

Aberrant.6749:

oZii.2864:

Soon this thread with have the very hard to pull off scenario of hammer warriors killing whole zergs with necros and epi backing them up. Cause Zergs run with no Guardians passively handing off aegis and they will just let the warriors run up and not melt them. Then inb4 you just need 8 mesmers to stealth the warriors and necro’s.

Since when do you need more than 1-2 mesmers to stealth a large group of people?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Veil

Oh we are having a discussion on how Mesmers stealth works? Oh I must have missed that part. Uhh I guess you want to be right in a point I wasn’t talking about. Yes veil doesn’t have a limit I know this. Are you happy now? Thanks for the intermission Mr. Wiki.

Now back on topic about these runes.

Very happy Thanks Mr. Super Serious ^^

My take on this whole situation is that not enough people are running enough condi removal in the end.

I will give credit where credit is due and say the perplexity runes are ridiculous.
Shouldn’t be able to do that much with just an armor set.

Its absolutely incredible that after over a month nothing been done.

Kontrolle.3514:

Viking Jorun.5413:

It’s pretty insane when condition builds use this. Even with my thief who has extreme condition removal, the counter-play is tedious as hell.

No offense, but stop arguing from a thief point of view.
It wont add anything useful to the topic.

@topic:
I main engineer since bwe1 and right now i abuse this rune like there is no tomorrow.
ITs OP, everyone knows it and only fools or beginners deny that. Srsly you can build a character which main source of damage is this rune and it will work.
I would like to try some of the other new condition-damage runes but i cant. This rune is so strong that it outshines every other condition-rune available.

Get over yourself. My opinion isn’t invalid solely due to the fact that I’m a thief. I don’t run some backstab build like any other thief, and I personally think stealth as a crutch. Please humor me more if you feel that thieves are incompetent here on the forums because you hate us as a class.

My point wasn’t that I’m a thief. My point was that at any given moment I have 6 on-demand sources of condition removal, only two of which have a cooldown. The perplexity engineers and warriors are almost too much for my build, which was built as a hard counter to both conditions and stuns. When something like this comes along and can consistently stack 25 stacks which I’m forced to abuse my condition removal on, there’s a problem. I can understand condition burst necros, where they waste everything at the beginning, however this isn’t front-loaded and there is little room for error when fighting one of these, even with high condition removal and tolerance to CC.

Lolololo I love that people are still talking about this rune and still trying to defend it, IT’S OVERPOWERED that is clear, infact someone tell me what other rune is better for a condition build please.

How many of these threads are there going to be. Worry about the upcoming league system that is going to ruin wvw for 7 weeks not some silly runes that do absolutely nothing in normal wvw play (nobody cares about your small gank squads picking on lowbie upscaleds).

Not once have I been in a stituation where these runes were an issue. The only time I had been caught out was against a perplexity headshot thief on my s/d ele (aka EVERYTHING interruptible) and what did he do? Apply lots of confusion which did nothing to stop me regrouping with my guild mates.

Sure I wouldn’t be able to kill him, but who cares? Killing some useless thief does nothing for my server. Same as killing some useless warrior or engi with these runes. Learn how confusion works and you will rarely get taken out by it.

Stop posting issues about runes classes and skills in the wvw forums. There are much more scary issues with wvw than this stuff. The wvw devs can’t even do anything g to change your issues anyway so put them somewhere where a dev can look at them.

As a condition mesmer i can deal with one “Perplexity Engi” in 1v1, but i was totally surprised of the damage it deals when i had to deal with one for the first time (note that i play only mesmer), but if you dont have condi remove, the engi wins!

bradderzh.2378:

How many of these threads are there going to be. Worry about the upcoming league system that is going to ruin wvw for 7 weeks not some silly runes that do absolutely nothing in normal wvw play (nobody cares about your small gank squads picking on lowbie upscaleds).

Not once have I been in a stituation where these runes were an issue. The only time I had been caught out was against a perplexity headshot thief on my s/d ele (aka EVERYTHING interruptible) and what did he do? Apply lots of confusion which did nothing to stop me regrouping with my guild mates.

Sure I wouldn’t be able to kill him, but who cares? Killing some useless thief does nothing for my server. Same as killing some useless warrior or engi with these runes. Learn how confusion works and you will rarely get taken out by it.

Stop posting issues about runes classes and skills in the wvw forums. There are much more scary issues with wvw than this stuff. The wvw devs can’t even do anything g to change your issues anyway so put them somewhere where a dev can look at them.

We don’t all zerg and then run to the zerg when we get hit a couple of times bro (although that’s what most inexperienced players do). With the new bloodlust things will be more spread out. That means more small goup/solo stuff… stomping will add to the score… and this effects those sort of things. Hence a new urgency to fix this OP set.

I’m sure the WvW dev’s can nerf things in WvW btw…

^Don’t know why you’re wasting your time explaining that to him. He admitted to just being a scrub zergling who runs back to the safety of the swarm since he can’t 1 vs 1. NOTHING is a problem if you simply outnumber your opponent, you can run around naked and drop aoes and still get kills.

So mindless zerglings, please hush up. You get no say in the matter here, your opinion doesn’t count. The runes ARE a problem in smaller groups where skill actually does matter and you can’t just spam 1 and see bodies pop up.

Nikkinella.8254:

The rune is overpowered on ANY class if you stack up condition damage. Just autoattacking with my sword on warrior stacks up a ton of confusion. Get even more if I actually bother interrupting them. It’s definitely got to be bugged. there’s no way they intended them to be this powerful. ALL runes that have some sort of proc on then have an ICD. Perplexity does not. And you people don’t see anything wrong with that? You KNOW it’s a mistake, stop denying it. It needs a cooldown just like every single other rune in the game that has a proc on it.

so, like you said in another threat, unkillable tank war for you is a skill, but not a bug. And this runes – bug. huh