The current implementation of Runes of Perplexity seems out of balance with both other superior rune sets and other skills and traits that apply the confusion condition.
Sure, they have potential counters just like other conditions, but something is clearly off here, balance-wise.
Are they off balance or do people need time to learn how to deal with them?
They are imbalanced when compared to the other rune sets.
As I said before… these are build defining runes. No other rune set is like that.
Are you kidding? No other build defining rune set?
Have you hear of Soldier runes? Melandru? Scholar? To some extent sets like Rune of Earth, and Lyssa…
Come on, there are no other CONDITION build defining runes, but there are PLENTY of rune sets that define builds.
This rune is a serious problem in WvW at the moment. I’ve played several hours of wvw roaming in the last 2 days and it seems like 50% of my opponents (especially warriors, thiefes and ingis) are using this new rune.
I’ve never had problems with 1v1 fights in the past but with this rune most fights are a joke and I have zero chance to win against opponents with this rune. Combat usually starts with some interrupts for 10+ confusion. A good player can often interrupt my heal skill or condi remove for even more confusion and if i happen to successfully cast a condi remove I usually get 10 new stacks immediately.
This is obviously completely overpowered.
If you look at other confusion sources in the game this is even more obvious: Mesmer confusion usually lasts for 3-5s and only one single skill (scepter 3) can apply 5 stacks of confusion.
Please, dear developers nerf this rune in the next patch! It completely ruins small scale combat at the moment. A internal cooldown and reduced duration to 3-5 s would be very nice.
(1): +28 Condition Condition Damage
(2): 15% Confusion Duration
(3): +55 Condition Damage
(4): 20% chance to cause Confusion on hit (15 second cooldown).
(5): +100 Condition Damage
(6): +15% Confusion duration. Causes 10 seconds of Confusion on interrupt.
I just realized that this is, next to the torment runes, the only rune I know that has multiple effects on #6. Instead of adding an internal CD they added a 2nd rune fact making it work opposite to all other runes I can think of atm except for the torment rune set. Very perplexingly tormanting :P
They need to nerf #4 to 5% chance to cause confusion to be more inline w/ other rune sets as well.
They need to nerf #4 to 5% chance to cause confusion to be more inline w/ other rune sets as well.
That is not the same as other runes because #4 is when you strike someone.
Other rune sets have 5% chance to proc when struck in a 1v1 scenario sure 5% is pretty low. Then as more sources of incoming damage increases the #4 of other rune sets chances to proc also increases. So then the 4 piece for the other rune sets would actually be stronger than your suggestion for perplexity and therefore would not be inline.
(edited by oZii.2864)
This rune is a serious problem in WvW at the moment. I’ve played several hours of wvw roaming in the last 2 days and it seems like 50% of my opponents (especially warriors, thiefes and ingis) are using this new rune.
I’ve never had problems with 1v1 fights in the past but with this rune most fights are a joke and I have zero chance to win against opponents with this rune. Combat usually starts with some interrupts for 10+ confusion. A good player can often interrupt my heal skill or condi remove for even more confusion and if i happen to successfully cast a condi remove I usually get 10 new stacks immediately.
This is obviously completely overpowered.
If you look at other confusion sources in the game this is even more obvious: Mesmer confusion usually lasts for 3-5s and only one single skill (scepter 3) can apply 5 stacks of confusion.
Please, dear developers nerf this rune in the next patch! It completely ruins small scale combat at the moment. A internal cooldown and reduced duration to 3-5 s would be very nice.
50%? o.O Is your opponent only running condition classes? o.O.
Last night on TCBL, there was a very large 3 way fight between CD, FA and CD (over 20 people each server, in open field, VERY fun!). I never had more than 10 stacks of confusion on me, and I don’t run a condition clear. And with those 10 stacks, I pulled back for a second.
In a 1v1, they CAN be strong, however, your opponent has to focus on doing damage with confusion and doing interupts.
Yes, these runes are powerful and need to be tweaked (I think a 5-10 second ICD wouldn’t be so bad). However, are the coming of the WvW apocalypse that people here have been proclaiming? No. This is the SAME kind of speach used against glamour mesmers, or ANYTHING to do with confusion, EVER. The moment people start using confusion, the forums go ABLAZE! However, you rarely see threads like “I was chain feared, then loaded with a 4 conditions instantly”…or “one _ stacked 25 _ (bleeds), and I died. It’s OP”, or “I got chain stunned and couldn’t do anything, nerf stuns!”. There’s just something about confusion which makes people go mad…it doesn’t even do guaranteed damage!
When I used to run a shatter/glamour confusion build a long time ago, I could stack 22+ confusion on a target. The smart ones would run back and wait, then strike me. The not-so smart ones would hitting “1” and die in 4 seconds.
tl;dr: Yes, the runes are powerful and need some tweaking. Just be calm and wait, it’ll come. Most of the fuss is just because it’s confusion, and people get all crazy the moment they see confusion on their bar and seem to have a mini-stroke. People have a problem with confusion, not really this rune. If this rune instead did a bleed on interupt, no one WOULD SAY ANYTHING.
tl;dr: Yes, the runes are powerful and need some tweaking. Just be calm and wait, it’ll come. Most of the fuss is just because it’s confusion, and people get all crazy the moment they see confusion on their bar and seem to have a mini-stroke. People have a problem with confusion, not really this rune. If this rune instead did a bleed on interupt, no one WOULD SAY ANYTHING.
the base damage of 1 bleed is 22.5 less than 1 stack of confusion.
If this caused 3 stacks of bleed on interrupt in its current forum I think people would definitely complain.
It has nothing to do with confusion hate, it is the ease of stacking confusion such that these runes make “confusion builds” strong. However, “Confusion builds” are also condition builds in general, which were already very strong and didn’t need anything else.
W/o these runes, condi builds could apply great pressure that you had to respond to (cleanse) and you had to apply pressure back to put them on the defense.
With these runes, condi builds apply great pressure while also punishing you (even locking you out) from responding to them (you heal will also proc confusion). For all the people who say “well just stop spamming skills for 10s” as if that is a viable option while you also have 6+ stacks of bleeds, burning, poison, and maybe torment on you ticking your life away, with more coming in. And the argument “well this punishes skill spammers”: I wouldn’t say using your auto-attack is spamming a skill, yet if your auto-attack is interrupted, you get confusion. If your heal is interrupted (and it is very easy to do): you get confusion and lost your heal. I can’t see how people find these runes balanced unless you are just trying to protect their pet or never faced off against them.
As long as they fix the 30% duration, I couldn’t care less what they do with the 6/6. I can already stack enough confusion on my engy.
As long as they fix the 30% duration, I couldn’t care less what they do with the 6/6. I can already stack enough confusion on my engy.
I have fought confusion-stacking engies pre-rune and they are relatively easy to fight. Just cleanse the confusion after they apply it and you have a good opening for damage. Post-runes, as soon as you cleanse it is right back on you again so there is no opening to do damage.
Agreed, I can keep it up longer now with the rune. I run a p/s kit build, and it’s pretty dirty. My shield interupts are on long cooldowns, but before the rune they were defensive abilities. Now, it’s possible to use them offensively, which I’m pretty sure wasn’t anet’s intent w/engy shield. If you cleanse those, I can’t really stack them back on immediately unless I’m also running a bomb kit. I think alot of engineers are using their interupts to stack 15+ stacks up front. Then, once cleansed, they can do the normal confusion bomb (toolkit pull into 3, bomb 3, swap to pistol 3). I like the mechanic but think 5 stacks for 10s is way too much. I don’t want to see an icd b/c it would lose its aoe functionality. I’d rather see 2-3 stacks for 5s, or do away with the interupt mechanic and add x% to confusion damage.
ALL runes and sigils with a proc have some sort of cooldown on them Perplexity doesn’t. It’s obviously a mistake, so i’d say expect a nerf. It’s broken and overpowered. I can kill someone just spamming headshot with the perplexity runes on my thief. Stand there, press 1 button over and over again. Just trait for as much initiative regen as possible and press 1 button and win. And I have stealth if anything happens to go wrong and by some miracle they can constantly cure the confusion.
The runes need to go, and I mean it.
p/s: All this people defending it is just plain dumb. Why bother defending something that is completely broken?
The runes need to go, and I mean it.
p/s: All this people defending it is just plain dumb. Why bother defending something that is completely broken?
because they’re bad players and need a crutch to win? I use them and I admit they’re fun but come on. Anyone can see how overpowered they are. They need to be nerfed. They need a cooldown at the very least.
I don’t use them but I played against a few who do.
Even with a whopping 13-18 stacks, they hit me for 2k-2.5k tops. Which is about an autoattack from a zerk. I’ve yet to play someone who is fully specced for cond damage with them, but after doing the math they can’t be doing drastically more than 3.5k per hit if you have a 15~ stack.
I do not see the issue. Well, I do if you use full-zerker with 900 vitality in WvW (questionable choice) and spam your skills through. Then this rune is deadly. But so would be a Backstab thief or a Killshot warrior. It’s no more or less gimmicky than those builds.
If you can’t remove your conds timely, maybe you should … stop mindlessly attacking. This actually neutralizes 90% of confusion damage. And it’s not like they are permanently covered with a ton of other conditions, in my experience. The rune is rather ingeniously balanced against the fact that builds who have a lot of interrupts don’t have many strong condition options (atleast not until fear counts as an interrupt).
(6) should have internal cooldown, as interrupts do not.
I don’t use them but I played against a few who do.
Even with a whopping 13-18 stacks, they hit me for 2k-2.5k tops. Which is about an autoattack from a zerk. I’ve yet to play someone who is fully specced for cond damage with them, but after doing the math they can’t be doing drastically more than 3.5k per hit if you have a 15~ stack.I do not see the issue. Well, I do if you use full-zerker with 900 vitality in WvW (questionable choice) and spam your skills through. Then this rune is deadly. But so would be a Backstab thief or a Killshot warrior. It’s no more or less gimmicky than those builds.
If you can’t remove your conds timely, maybe you should … stop mindlessly attacking. This actually neutralizes 90% of confusion damage. And it’s not like they are permanently covered with a ton of other conditions, in my experience. The rune is rather ingeniously balanced against the fact that builds who have a lot of interrupts don’t have many strong condition options (atleast not until fear counts as an interrupt).
You arent just being hit by Confusion. You are taking Confusion damage everytime you use an ability, for some professions that even includes dodging.
This runeset alone, in itself, already gives Confusion 30% extra duration. So 10sec duration becomes 13seconds. It takes very little effort to push that to 17 or 20sec duration.
Are you honestly suggesting just sitting there and not using any ability for 20seconds? Ow but what am i saying, if those 20seconds are up and you are still standing, expect the interupts to be available yet again.
The perplexity runes are taking Confusion back to the way it was pre-nerf, even worst since the duration is much longer then anything actual skills can or could get. The only difference is that the people who were then on the receiving end of Confusion are now the ones doling it out.
And suddenly its A-OK and all the arguments then used to defend Confusion are now used by the people that swept these arguments under the rug 6months ago.
This runeset alone, in itself, already gives Confusion 30% extra duration. So 10sec duration becomes 13seconds. It takes very little effort to push that to 17 or 20sec duration.
Just to clarify, the 30% duration on the rune is bugged and doesn’t work at the moment. That said, my engy has 70% duration, so even w/the broken rune my confusions from this rune last 17s if they’re not cleared (or dead, lol). The most this rune should be is 5s duration like most other profession based confusions in the game. Reducing the stacks and the duration would go a long way in balancing this rune. Oh, and fix the 30% duration!
Make the duration 3 seconds, and it’ll be onpair with other skills that cause confusion.
ICD is needed , no other rune set doesn’t have an ICD. I’ve got a staff wellomancer and i can drop marks and wells, then get stacks of confusion, if more than one person triggers a mark or steps in my wells i get wrecked without a way out. Condis are really powerful for sure now and this is not helping. Nerf please.
Wonder if they’ll get around to this tomorrow or if they’ve been too busy with ascended weapons >.>
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