Guild Wars 2

Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054:

You know, I can understand that teh so-called WvW devs are busy, and as such may not have time to reply to the hundreds of crying posts made by WvW players who are down to their last grain of sand in their bucket of Hope.

BUT wasnt a WvW Liaison assigned to the WvW forums as a go-between players and devs. I dont mean you Mark, your title is Community Special Operations, this person was designated WvW Liaison.

What happened to this person? I believe it was Chris, but he was replaced by Josh, and we’ve never heard from him since; apart from the Ready Up streams.

You forgot one person, Jessica Boettiger, WvW/PvP/Skills Principal QA. She posted few times during Season 2 but then soon after disappeared.

We don’t need someone offering multiple responses in multiple threads daily or anything like that, but the complete silence is infuriating, mainly because it has lasted for so so long. Other content in the game (looking at you living story) gets new maps, writing/dialogue, rewards, mechanics, etc every two weeks! It’s fine if Anet wants to focus on this, but that does not mean it is ok to leave the community of an entire game mode, one that was advertised as a big selling point for GW2, out to dry. Give us monthly updates, we understand things change in development, but right now all we get is regurgitated PR bull kitten that makes me think nothing at all is being developed.

Mark Katzbach.9084:

Again I can assure you, the developers are reading the forums regularly, even though they don’t have time to post a reply to everything they read. Additionally, as I read these forums probably more than anybody here, I regularly compile reports for the competitive team to make sure they are up to speed on your concerns and desires. Does this mean your every wish will be granted? No, it does not. What it does mean is that the team is regularly being made aware of how the community feels about the game and what features, content, etc. that you like, dislike or want to see in the future. What it also means is that we take note of when you all ask for or suggest a feature that is currently under development, so that down the line, when it’s actually released and a bunch of people clamor to the forums to complain that “nobody asked for this” (you know who you are), we can refer back and be secure in the knowledge that somebody did, in fact, ask for it.

Now, this post has ended up way longer than I intended it to be. I don’t expect what I’ve said here to cause a sudden change in the tone or content of the posts on this forum. What I do expect is your understanding that we’re not just sitting here twiddling our thumbs and I haven’t enacted this rule against necroposting as some sinister method to justify shutting down the WvW forum. WvW is one of the core game types of Guild Wars 2, and as long as we have forums and I have something to say about it, we will have a place for WvW discussion.

Hey Mark, I’d be insanely grateful if you could reply to this post. My question is simply, if that is the case why don’t you show us some action? Complaints like there is no WvW team anymore don’t happen in a vacuum. I see you, ANet, once again fixed minor details in the PvE world no one even thought about, like fixing some Points of Interests, etc. So why not do the same for WvW? Constant but minor additions like colored commander tags, small tweaks, QoL improvements. Just to show us you are (apparently) still there.
There was not a single update to WvW since half a year. None. And EotM wasn’t regular WvW either since it isn’t RvR, an organized, server-based format. Which sets the date of the last real WvW addition (excepting tournament rewards) back to last September.
Why not just do those little tweaks I mentioned in the meantime between your “EotMs”? Do you really not have the resources for that?

The reason people bumped those old threads was because in them exactly those tiny fixes were promised — a year or more ago, and because they, in many cases, were the most recent example of a red post on the topic.
If you threaten us with bans and infractions if we do that, why not make a concession to us as well? And atleast promise some form of communication if people raise those same concerns in new threads, if not outright addressing them? Without a concession on your part (or alternatively an apology, but this topic isn’t about apologies/formalities) I frankly think your move was very discourteous.

Communication is the problem and that’s all anyone ask for. I understand you guys like to keep things quiet so you don’t give us empty promise’s but at least telling us what you are working on would help.

Example : Right now the WvW development team is looking into working on improving CmD tag, new maps, new siege or even new mastery.

I mean right now nobody here knows what you guys are working on even if you are. I just find it much more annoying not knowing anything then just having a general idea of what you are working on.

@Mark,

You need to understand why people are frustrated. There has been virtually no communication related to WvW. There were two CDIs that had little ANET participation. There was a third CDI said to start after season 2 to discuss what worked and what didn’t. That didn’t even happen.

Even if you can’t talk about what is being developed, at least try to alleviate some fears. A lot of people are afraid that ANET will take junk from EotM and add it to WvW.

Another way you could help is to publish one of those WvW vision messages. In the past,, ANET posted blogs discussing the vision for WvW over the next half year. Might be a good time for that.

Wanderer.3248:

20 years ago we had forums and software that let you sort posts any way you liked. You could sort by the date the article was first created. You could sort by last post. You could have options to only show the new posts in a thread. You didn’t lose your place in a thread every time your browser dropped a cookie.

Necro threads are a software problem. Sadly the forum software these days is a pale shadow of what it used to be.

You said it!

This is some of the worst “forum” software in existence.

There is no way to search – as soon as you type just ONE single thing in the “search field” it searches – not allowing one to even finish typing.

Even if you can trick the search field by cutting and pasting a word or words, you will still not get relevant searches or anything that is sortable and usable.

Fixing the forums would be a miracle…

The fact that we are locked out or our “rights” to post are truncated if we are too vocal (and I have never been rude or used bad language) shows the control freak nature of the people who read the forums – but I know they aren’t necessarily the ones who can fix anything since the real “devs” for any segment of the program are incredibly absent from these forums now.

Fixing WvW would be past a miracle.

Like others have mentioned gw2 forum’s search is poor, and google is often the best method to search these forums. Old threads do pop-up in google searches, anyone can click it and respond to the thread without seeing the sticky. It seems to me, if Anet wants nercoposting to stop maybe they should lock threads after 30 days. It seems harsh to ban/suspend accounts for necroposting.

Even simple and free forums have an option in their settings for their owners to simply lock or delete threads that haven’t been posted in for X-days.
Feels a bit like stoneage here where supervisors just give themselves more work to do

Mark Katzbach.9084:

Joining a conversation and bumping long-dead threads with developer posts in them as an attention-seeking tactic are two entirely different things. A few people decided to start digging through the forum and bumping old topics, not to contribute to conversations there or post new and insightful comments to breathe new life into the topic, but to be disruptive and to try and “prove a point”.

Well the problem is you did not make that distinction in you original post. You wrote:

Due to the rash of necroposting on this subforum, anybody caught posting in a dead thread will be subject to infractions and possible suspensions from this point forward

I am sorry but this is typical Arenanet Information policy, make everything as unclear as it could be made.

Mark Katzbach.9084:

I understand your frustrations and desire to hear from developers about what’s under development, I really do. However, as I said in the other thread I posted in today, we are unable to comment on features under development until they reach a state where we, as a company, are comfortable talking about them. So, when you ask “are you working on x” or “what’s the status of y”, we can’t comment.

Please don´t use the term “we are unable to comment” if you mean “we do not want to comment”, be honest !

Mark Katzbach.9084:

Being disruptive on the forums (in old or new threads), making rude or demanding posts and posting comments like “there is no WvW team anymore” are hardly an endearing method that encourages our developers to post more. I would ask that you take this into consideration when posting as well.

Ah yes of course, it´s the communities fault the developers do not post here because the environment is so toxic…

Do you really think that we are so stupid that we believe this excuse ? Devs don´t post here because they have nothing to say, because there isn´t something new to tell, because WvW has absolutely no priority in GW2. Again, please be honest.

Mark Katzbach.9084:

Now, this post has ended up way longer than I intended it to be. I don’t expect what I’ve said here to cause a sudden change in the tone or content of the posts on this forum. What I do expect is your understanding that we’re not just sitting here twiddling our thumbs and I haven’t enacted this rule against necroposting as some sinister method to justify shutting down the WvW forum. WvW is one of the core game types of Guild Wars 2, and as long as we have forums and I have something to say about it, we will have a place for WvW discussion.

One thing is crystal clear. Arenanet has a problem with forums, you´ve always had. I play GW2 since the Betas and i remember all the discussions before release whether you will have forums or not. I wish you had decided against forums because what you do here is trying to avoid posts same as you did with the WvW board, it´s a joke. you should learn not to see everything in the forums as a personal attack, see it as a chance what people think and suggest for the better. And do that what a forum is about → COMMUNICATE !

What you do is using the forum as a garbage can where people can vent, and in return you have to infract, ban, delete etc. A lot of the hostility specially in the WvW or the spvp boards is because you refuse to talk with people and what really shocks me is that in more than two years since release you did not learn that.

At this point i think we should try to move the WvW community somewhere else. Everyone in this forum should put in his signature the community address site and just hop in here to say " the discussion is here…"
maybe in a forum where :
1) we are not censored
2) the forum search functions works
3) where ppl can read all your concern without warring of the policy.

i mean…. we get no feedback….no progress… what the point to waste time write here?

what do you think?

tnx all

strifer.7986:

At this point i think we should try to move the WvW community somewhere else. Everyone in this forum should put in his signature the community address site and just hop in here to say " the discussion is here…"
maybe in a forum where :
1) we are not censored
2) the forum search functions works
3) where ppl can read all your concern without warring of the policy.

i mean…. we get no feedback….no progress… what the point to waste time write here?

what do you think?

tnx all

Might as well since this forum is just getting insulting with all the infractions.

Mark Katzbach.9084:

Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054:

Arenanet Forum Main Page:

Be heard! Seek wisdom! Join a conversation with fellow adventurers, or start your own..

I was heard, and the wisdom I required was I was told to be quiet.

Joining a conversation and bumping long-dead threads with developer posts in them as an attention-seeking tactic are two entirely different things. A few people decided to start digging through the forum and bumping old topics, not to contribute to conversations there or post new and insightful comments to breathe new life into the topic, but to be disruptive and to try and “prove a point”. Since asking nicely rarely seems to work with the people engaging in this behavior, I made the sticky post explicitly telling everybody to stop, under threat of infraction, suspension and ultimately banning. If there’s a topic you actually wish to discuss, then please open a thread (if an active one does not currently exist) and do so. This is not a new limitation on what you can talk about, just a request to stop the disruptive necroposting.

I understand your frustrations and desire to hear from developers about what’s under development, I really do. However, as I said in the other thread I posted in today, we are unable to comment on features under development until they reach a state where we, as a company, are comfortable talking about them. So, when you ask “are you working on x” or “what’s the status of y”, we can’t comment.

Being disruptive on the forums (in old or new threads), making rude or demanding posts and posting comments like “there is no WvW team anymore” are hardly an endearing method that encourages our developers to post more. I would ask that you take this into consideration when posting as well.

Again I can assure you, the developers are reading the forums regularly, even though they don’t have time to post a reply to everything they read. Additionally, as I read these forums probably more than anybody here, I regularly compile reports for the competitive team to make sure they are up to speed on your concerns and desires. Does this mean your every wish will be granted? No, it does not. What it does mean is that the team is regularly being made aware of how the community feels about the game and what features, content, etc. that you like, dislike or want to see in the future. What it also means is that we take note of when you all ask for or suggest a feature that is currently under development, so that down the line, when it’s actually released and a bunch of people clamor to the forums to complain that “nobody asked for this” (you know who you are), we can refer back and be secure in the knowledge that somebody did, in fact, ask for it.

Now, this post has ended up way longer than I intended it to be. I don’t expect what I’ve said here to cause a sudden change in the tone or content of the posts on this forum. What I do expect is your understanding that we’re not just sitting here twiddling our thumbs and I haven’t enacted this rule against necroposting as some sinister method to justify shutting down the WvW forum. WvW is one of the core game types of Guild Wars 2, and as long as we have forums and I have something to say about it, we will have a place for WvW discussion.

Speaking from a developer perspective and owner of numerous forums….this is bullkitten. If you don’t want people necro’ing threads….ARCHIVE THEM.

The point of allowing people to bring up old posts is to keep relevant content together regardless of age. If you feel there is a point in time at which people should never be allowed to bring up old threads at all. They should be moved to a read-only archive forum so that people can still search them. Blaming users for using your forum software as it was built, with the features it was built with is stupid….at best.

MasterD.4790:

Mark Katzbach.9084:

Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054:

Arenanet Forum Main Page:

Be heard! Seek wisdom! Join a conversation with fellow adventurers, or start your own..

I was heard, and the wisdom I required was I was told to be quiet.

Joining a conversation and bumping long-dead threads with developer posts in them as an attention-seeking tactic are two entirely different things. A few people decided to start digging through the forum and bumping old topics, not to contribute to conversations there or post new and insightful comments to breathe new life into the topic, but to be disruptive and to try and “prove a point”. Since asking nicely rarely seems to work with the people engaging in this behavior, I made the sticky post explicitly telling everybody to stop, under threat of infraction, suspension and ultimately banning. If there’s a topic you actually wish to discuss, then please open a thread (if an active one does not currently exist) and do so. This is not a new limitation on what you can talk about, just a request to stop the disruptive necroposting.

I understand your frustrations and desire to hear from developers about what’s under development, I really do. However, as I said in the other thread I posted in today, we are unable to comment on features under development until they reach a state where we, as a company, are comfortable talking about them. So, when you ask “are you working on x” or “what’s the status of y”, we can’t comment.

Being disruptive on the forums (in old or new threads), making rude or demanding posts and posting comments like “there is no WvW team anymore” are hardly an endearing method that encourages our developers to post more. I would ask that you take this into consideration when posting as well.

Again I can assure you, the developers are reading the forums regularly, even though they don’t have time to post a reply to everything they read. Additionally, as I read these forums probably more than anybody here, I regularly compile reports for the competitive team to make sure they are up to speed on your concerns and desires. Does this mean your every wish will be granted? No, it does not. What it does mean is that the team is regularly being made aware of how the community feels about the game and what features, content, etc. that you like, dislike or want to see in the future. What it also means is that we take note of when you all ask for or suggest a feature that is currently under development, so that down the line, when it’s actually released and a bunch of people clamor to the forums to complain that “nobody asked for this” (you know who you are), we can refer back and be secure in the knowledge that somebody did, in fact, ask for it.

Now, this post has ended up way longer than I intended it to be. I don’t expect what I’ve said here to cause a sudden change in the tone or content of the posts on this forum. What I do expect is your understanding that we’re not just sitting here twiddling our thumbs and I haven’t enacted this rule against necroposting as some sinister method to justify shutting down the WvW forum. WvW is one of the core game types of Guild Wars 2, and as long as we have forums and I have something to say about it, we will have a place for WvW discussion.

Speaking from a developer perspective and owner of numerous forums….this is bullkitten. If you don’t want people necro’ing threads….ARCHIVE THEM.

The point of allowing people to bring up old posts is to keep relevant content together regardless of age. If you feel there is a point in time at which people should never be allowed to bring up old threads at all. They should be moved to a read-only archive forum so that people can still search them. Blaming users for using your forum software as it was built, with the features it was built with is stupid….at best.

I would have to agree with this statement. From a student/up and coming game dev standpoint I would assume that this all really stems from one very simple concept that most if not all dev’s understand:

It is much more appealing to create than to fix. It is much more fun to create new content than to polish/fix old content.*

therefore it is likely that in an attempt to “sweep the problem under the rug” or at least reduce the obviousness(is that a word? lol) of it being necessary, they have decided to get rid of old traces of it entirely.

Although this may be their forum and they may have every right in the world to moderate it as they see fit, it is not smart to blame as opposed to taking responsibility. In truth, you all should feel wronged, because you have been. You are being indirectly blamed for something that is actually a design flaw(if “necroing” was something that was never intended to happen.).

Well, OP should be very happy as she/he got an ArenaNet employee to respond to anything WVW related. That means there is at least one person doing anything WvW related by ArenaNet. Because is there still anybody who believes that there is a WvW developer team?

On the other hand I am not so happy with the response. It is another one of those typical ArenaNet responses. Just bad communication. As bad as the software behind this forum is. I think the suggestion to move the WvW forum to another place (outside the reach of ArenaNet) is a good one. That gives us the option to use proper forum software and not the crap ArenaNet is using. And the lack of response from ArenaNet would not make a difference as the only response from ArenaNet on WvW related topics are threats. (Another reason to switch is to avoid all the kittens. I had to rephrase the first sentence of this paragraph to avoid a kitten.)

See?
This is why they don’t even bother posting. Because when they do people just complain even more than if they were just quiet.

lordkrall.7241:

See?
This is why they don’t even bother posting. Because when they do people just complain even more than if they were just quiet.

Yup. I agree. I can understand people getting angry and frustrated and wanting to vent because of a lack of response and/or lack of updates (or lack of what they think should be added). But people keep forgetting that any member of Anet dev team are not required to post anything, anytime, ever. Period. Now some (and I know they will) claim that it is a bad business practice, and actually hurts the game. But these same people will also try to claim that because of this, WvW, and the game in general, is rapidly declining, and might as well be dead. Although no one can offer any proof of the actual numbers of people playing, it’s all theory and speculation.

Also I heartily agree with Mark when he said that the toxic and ranting posts are not endearing the devs to comment. As we have seen in the case of Marks posting on the matter. Being straight up called a liar, that everything he said is just PR crap, and that he and the others aren’t really doing anything at all. I don’t know ANYONE who would want to respond to such things, when they know that ANYTHING you say is going to be taken way out of context, that you will only be met with more anger and frustration, because you legitimently can’t speak on whats in development (see: Non-disclosure. A legally binding contract that basically says you cannot speak, write, email, or otherwise communicate on projects that are under development until so released, generally in writing, by the company to do so.). But all that will be seen as a “weak” excuse for not appeasing the masses, or telling them the specifics of what they want to hear.

lordkrall.7241:

See?
This is why they don’t even bother posting. Because when they do people just complain even more than if they were just quiet.

If you cant stand kids, dont make a chuck e cheese.

pdavis.8031:

lordkrall.7241:

See?
This is why they don’t even bother posting. Because when they do people just complain even more than if they were just quiet.

Yup. I agree. I can understand people getting angry and frustrated and wanting to vent because of a lack of response and/or lack of updates (or lack of what they think should be added). But people keep forgetting that any member of Anet dev team are not required to post anything, anytime, ever. Period. Now some (and I know they will) claim that it is a bad business practice, and actually hurts the game. But these same people will also try to claim that because of this, WvW, and the game in general, is rapidly declining, and might as well be dead. Although no one can offer any proof of the actual numbers of people playing, it’s all theory and speculation.

Also I heartily agree with Mark when he said that the toxic and ranting posts are not endearing the devs to comment. As we have seen in the case of Marks posting on the matter. Being straight up called a liar, that everything he said is just PR crap, and that he and the others aren’t really doing anything at all. I don’t know ANYONE who would want to respond to such things, when they know that ANYTHING you say is going to be taken way out of context, that you will only be met with more anger and frustration, because you legitimently can’t speak on whats in development (see: Non-disclosure. A legally binding contract that basically says you cannot speak, write, email, or otherwise communicate on projects that are under development until so released, generally in writing, by the company to do so.). But all that will be seen as a “weak” excuse for not appeasing the masses, or telling them the specifics of what they want to hear.

NDA isnt magical mouth binding, its that you cant say what the company doesnt want to say, usually companies have a lot they want to say. If you dont want to have to continue to appease your customers, you probably shouldnt make an MMO. If you dont like customers asking you questions, how do you expect to be in business

Once again how is it that almost every other company gains more than they lose by communicating intent to customers? You act like this is the only way to do things when its far from the standard business practice

lordkrall.7241:

See?
This is why they don’t even bother posting. Because when they do people just complain even more than if they were just quiet.

no, this time youre in the wrong. most of the time you speak truths that people just dont like to accept or hear, but not this time.

the cdi’s worked well until they stopped posting, people were pretty positive about it when they were getting some kind of interaction, but devon will not allow himself the time required to have a relationship with the wvw community, and no other dev is stepping up either.

for once, dont blame the community for the state of things. all we have in recent memory is hostility and emptiness. if our relationship with the devs wasnt so bad, we wouldnt be complaining so much. and its up to them to improve that relationship.

phys.7689:

pdavis.8031:

Also I heartily agree with Mark when he said that the toxic and ranting posts are not endearing the devs to comment. As we have seen in the case of Marks posting on the matter. Being straight up called a liar, that everything he said is just PR crap, and that he and the others aren’t really doing anything at all. I don’t know ANYONE who would want to respond to such things, when they know that ANYTHING you say is going to be taken way out of context, that you will only be met with more anger and frustration, because you legitimently can’t speak on whats in development (see: Non-disclosure. A legally binding contract that basically says you cannot speak, write, email, or otherwise communicate on projects that are under development until so released, generally in writing, by the company to do so.). But all that will be seen as a “weak” excuse for not appeasing the masses, or telling them the specifics of what they want to hear.

NDA isnt magical mouth binding, its that you cant say what the company doesnt want to say, usually companies have a lot they want to say. If you dont want to have to continue to appease your customers, you probably shouldnt make an MMO. If you dont like customers asking you questions, how do you expect to be in business

Once again how is it that almost every other company gains more than they lose by communicating intent to customers? You act like this is the only way to do things when its far from the standard business practice

Yes NDA is not magical mouth binding. But it would appear in this case, the information about future/current development that the forums are asking about, and the devs are unable to comment on, fall under the pervue of NDA for whatever reason. John Smith gets asked about that all the time, and of course he respondes that he is unable, as much as he would like to, comment on it. So it would stand to reason that when Mark says he cannot talk about what is in development, he is bound by the NDA from doing so. To think otherwise is just stupid. From what I’ve seen, devs like questions, and respond when they are able and tell you if they cannot.

Of course customer communication on whats going on is the standard business practice, and I see Anet doing that with their blog updates, POIs, interviews etc. quite often. Just because they don’t do it in 1 sub-forum doesn’t mean they aren’t doing it. They usually will talk about whats coming in the blog, in detail, before launch. Remeber the blogs about the April feature patch? They told us EVERYTHING well in advance before that patch went live.

Also I believe another reason that Anet gets so tight lipped about whats coming is the NCSoft fiasco when NCSoft announced an expansion for GW2 was in the works and was coming.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/05/12/ncsoft-sales-down-from-last-quarter-up-from-last-year/

“NCsoft’s Nah Seong Chan says the company is “preparing an expansion pack” but has yet to decide when it might launch. Very interesting news indeed as ArenaNet said as recently as March that it was not working on an expansion."

But then had to retract that statement: “In regards to your recent post on a Guild Wars 2 expansion, there is a slight misunderstanding when interpreting the answer from the NCsoft earnings call. We are considering an expansion, but we are taking a wait-and-see stance. We are evaluating the performance of the game and deciding on when would be the best time to launch an expansion. But right now, our living story approach is very successful in keeping players engaged with new and exciting content. Launching boxed expansions are a great way to package content, but if we can do this on a more regular basis, something we’ve been doing since launch, it provides players with new content to explore and experience every time they log into the game.”

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/05/14/ncsoft-clarifies-stance-on-guild-wars-2-expansion/

BlazeQ.1095:

This actually bothers me to a degree… Where is the direction of this company going?

“Necro threads” is a pathetic concern of small-minded people with misguided priorities. Fairly indicative of the company’s direction, if this subject warrants a special rule and notification, particularly in context of this sub-forum for the past months.

Virtute.8251:

“Necro threads” is a pathetic concern of small-minded people with misguided priorities. Fairly indicative of the company’s direction, if this subject warrants a special rule and notification, particularly in context of this sub-forum for the past months.

To be fair when almost a full page of threads is more or less necroed with completely useless new posts (which main objective is simply to stir up trouble) it does become a concern.

lordkrall.7241:

Virtute.8251:

“Necro threads” is a pathetic concern of small-minded people with misguided priorities. Fairly indicative of the company’s direction, if this subject warrants a special rule and notification, particularly in context of this sub-forum for the past months.

To be fair when almost a full page of threads is more or less necroed with completely useless new posts (which main objective is simply to stir up trouble) it does become a concern.

To be fair the real concern is that every single one of those necro threads is over a year old and talk about upcoming updates which are still no tin the game!

The real concern is that instead of communicating with the community about what’s going on, they create a new sticky telling us to stop.

The real concern is that 2 years later they are still claiming they cannot talk about things.

Cant wait to see the next WvW CDI which was promised a month ago!

lordkrall.7241:

Virtute.8251:

“Necro threads” is a pathetic concern of small-minded people with misguided priorities. Fairly indicative of the company’s direction, if this subject warrants a special rule and notification, particularly in context of this sub-forum for the past months.

To be fair when almost a full page of threads is more or less necroed with completely useless new posts (which main objective is simply to stir up trouble) it does become a concern.

It’s not to stir up trouble, it’s to highlight that nothing has changed and even issues they said they were working on haven’t happened. Your replies remind me of the three monkeys analogy, and i wonder if you actually work for Anet or a related company in some capacity as you seem to be their biggest apologist. That’s not a personal attack, just a comment on where your viewpoint seems to come from.

lordkrall.7241:

See?
This is why they don’t even bother posting. Because when they do people just complain even more than if they were just quiet.

I would be 100% on your side if the post he made has been WvW related. But what he basically told us is “if you post in an old thread we will kittening punish you, trolololol”

This has nothing to do with WvW, it´s just a threat he made.

Guys what the devs are saying is that “Shut the hell up. You don’t buy more gems anyway. Its free to play game and we know there aren’t any alternatives so keep QQing while we make more money on RNG skins and boosters. If you guys keep talking, you will get banned and we will close the forum down”.
This will continue until a new game comes out and then they will add stuff like colored commander tag
Its exactly the same as South Park cable company episode

TheFamster.7806:

Guys what the devs are saying is that “Shut the hell up. You don’t buy more gems anyway. Its free to play game and we know there aren’t any alternatives so keep QQing while we make more money on RNG skins and boosters. If you guys keep talking, you will get banned and we will close the forum down”.
This will continue until a new game comes out and then they will add stuff like colored commander tag
Its exactly the same as South Park cable company episode

Yeah not really. If you bothered to read Marks response on the matter, he in fact says quite the opposite.
“Joining a conversation and bumping long-dead threads with developer posts in them as an attention-seeking tactic are two entirely different things. A few people decided to start digging through the forum and bumping old topics, not to contribute to conversations there or post new and insightful comments to breathe new life into the topic, but to be disruptive and to try and “prove a point”. Since asking nicely rarely seems to work with the people engaging in this behavior, I made the sticky post explicitly telling everybody to stop, under threat of infraction, suspension and ultimately banning. If there’s a topic you actually wish to discuss, then please open a thread (if an active one does not currently exist) and do so. This is not a new limitation on what you can talk about, just a request to stop the disruptive necroposting.”

Again, if there is a an older thread about a topic you still wish to discuss, just start a new thread. Copy and Paste the thing if you want. If there is a thread talking about an update that was never realized more than 30 days ago. Don’t necro the thread to say “It’s been X months since they told us this was coming! WTH is it!?” Just start a new one with the OP as “It’s been X months since they told us this was coming! WTH is it!?”. It’s not that difficult to understand.

Edit: Also the fact that he posted about the necro threads, and those doing the necroing, shows that the Anet is in fact reading the forums, even if they don’t respond.

Edit: Fixed for clarification.

pdavis.8031:

Again, if there is a an older thread about a topic you still wish to discuss, just start a new thread. Copy and Paste the thing if you want. If there is a thread talking about an update that was never realized more than 30 days ago. Don’t necro the thread to say “It’s been X months since they told us this was coming! WTH is it!?” Just start a new one with the OP as “It’s been X months since they told us this was coming! WTH is it!?”. It’s not that difficult to understand.

When did responding to an old thread became unacceptable? On what rules of ethics are you basing yourself upon to come to such a view?

Xillllix.3485:

pdavis.8031:

Again, if there is a an older thread about a topic you still wish to discuss, just start a new thread. Copy and Paste the thing if you want. If there is a thread talking about an update that was never realized more than 30 days ago. Don’t necro the thread to say “It’s been X months since they told us this was coming! WTH is it!?” Just start a new one with the OP as “It’s been X months since they told us this was coming! WTH is it!?”. It’s not that difficult to understand.

When did responding to an old thread became unacceptable? On what rules of ethics are you basing yourself upon to come to such a view?

Not my rules of ethics, ArenaNets Code of Conduct that users agree to when using the forums.
“•Do not spam. This includes bumping threads or making posts that lack content.”

Also: “ArenaNet has the sole right to interpret and apply this Code of Conduct to any specific circumstance and situation, and its judgment is final.”

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/rules

Mark has said that people are bumping (aka necroing) old threads, and doing so strictly to draw attention to them. They aren’t adding to the discussion, or providing anything new to the conversation. Of course if you feel you have something relevant, and new to add to an old conversation, I would think you are free to do that. But bumping and necroing old threads just for attention or as Mark said “Trying to prove a point” is against the Code of Conduct, and is being actively enforced so it can stop.

pdavis.8031:

Edit: Also the fact that he posted about the necro threads, and those doing the necroing, shows that the devs are in fact reading the forums, even if they don’t respond.

Shows, that Mark Katzbach read the forums, but he is not developer.

Avit.3165:

pdavis.8031:

Edit: Also the fact that he posted about the necro threads, and those doing the necroing, shows that the Anet is in fact reading the forums, even if they don’t respond.

Shows, that Mark Katzbach read the forums, but he is not developer.

A generalization. I tend to use the term “dev” loosly. Dev =/= Anet employee.

Next up: account infractions for unoriginal “content” and reposts… but you still can’t reply to the original content!

Mark Katzbach.9084:

Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054:

Arenanet Forum Main Page:

Be heard! Seek wisdom! Join a conversation with fellow adventurers, or start your own..

I was heard, and the wisdom I required was I was told to be quiet.

Joining a conversation and bumping long-dead threads with developer posts in them as an attention-seeking tactic are two entirely different things. A few people decided to start digging through the forum and bumping old topics, not to contribute to conversations there or post new and insightful comments to breathe new life into the topic, but to be disruptive and to try and “prove a point”. Since asking nicely rarely seems to work with the people engaging in this behavior, I made the sticky post explicitly telling everybody to stop, under threat of infraction, suspension and ultimately banning. If there’s a topic you actually wish to discuss, then please open a thread (if an active one does not currently exist) and do so. This is not a new limitation on what you can talk about, just a request to stop the disruptive necroposting.

I understand your frustrations and desire to hear from developers about what’s under development, I really do. However, as I said in the other thread I posted in today, we are unable to comment on features under development until they reach a state where we, as a company, are comfortable talking about them. So, when you ask “are you working on x” or “what’s the status of y”, we can’t comment.

Being disruptive on the forums (in old or new threads), making rude or demanding posts and posting comments like “there is no WvW team anymore” are hardly an endearing method that encourages our developers to post more. I would ask that you take this into consideration when posting as well.

Again I can assure you, the developers are reading the forums regularly, even though they don’t have time to post a reply to everything they read. Additionally, as I read these forums probably more than anybody here, I regularly compile reports for the competitive team to make sure they are up to speed on your concerns and desires. Does this mean your every wish will be granted? No, it does not. What it does mean is that the team is regularly being made aware of how the community feels about the game and what features, content, etc. that you like, dislike or want to see in the future. What it also means is that we take note of when you all ask for or suggest a feature that is currently under development, so that down the line, when it’s actually released and a bunch of people clamor to the forums to complain that “nobody asked for this” (you know who you are), we can refer back and be secure in the knowledge that somebody did, in fact, ask for it.

Now, this post has ended up way longer than I intended it to be. I don’t expect what I’ve said here to cause a sudden change in the tone or content of the posts on this forum. What I do expect is your understanding that we’re not just sitting here twiddling our thumbs and I haven’t enacted this rule against necroposting as some sinister method to justify shutting down the WvW forum. WvW is one of the core game types of Guild Wars 2, and as long as we have forums and I have something to say about it, we will have a place for WvW discussion.

So do i get this right? The wvw team does exist but is very buisy all the time. And ofc you only tell us about new content when its actually close to completion. Thinking about those two statements i cant help wondering why, if they are so buisy" there is never ever ever ever ever ever anything to inform us about? What are they busy with? Cant be wvw. Otherwise you would have something to tell us about, right? I thought the necroing was kinda funny as it somehow was a way of a “wake up call”. Understand that the WvW community feels ignored and if you are honest, you have to agree that you havent really done alot to not make them feel this way. As you said that you really understand the frustration. So lets threaten them so they shut up…..way to go. WvW has become boring, repetitive and empty. Guilds die, people leave and me beeing sad about this.

To me it feels like wvw has become the unwanted child you would like to get rid of so you can fokus on more singleplayer story modes and jumping puzzles. So lets just let it silently go away by ignoring it. I think you set you bar way to high with 3 game modes and now you came to learn. Pve is pretty much a weak singleplayer storymode updates every 2 weeks, Spvp = no esport, wvw so boring that people leave in masses. GJ

As expected of ANet, throw a quick threat at us then kitten off as fast as possible. ZERO FOLLOWUP! ZERO CONCERNS ADDRESSED! ZERO COMMUNICATION!
INCOMPETENCE!

Also stop feeding lordkrall his cavetroll food, everyone.

Avit.3165:

pdavis.8031:

Edit: Also the fact that he posted about the necro threads, and those doing the necroing, shows that the devs are in fact reading the forums, even if they don’t respond.

Shows, that Mark Katzbach read the forums, but he is not developer.

I think they glanced at the forum and were like, “What the hell is that red post?” Just like the rest of us that opened those threads.

I’ve always wondered how it’s possible for the devs to read through the forums, but not have the time to post even the most simple answer like: “We understand your concerns and will put it into our next meeting etc”. Is there really that much red tape that you have to go through to post on these forums? If there is then maybe it would be better to just be done with this game on my end, because if the devs have people looking over there shoulders that much then I have no clue how anything EVER gets done.

The other end of this is, that if the devs don’t have to get confirmation on everything they post, then the only real answer is that our opinions aren’t worth 30secs to confirm/deny them. This is what I expect is what really is happening.

It is nice to get some sort of response. It is just a shame that it took nothing short of a riot just to get a simple response. It isn’t like this all just happened overnight. Players have been asking for some sort of guidance and feedback for many, many months with nothing but stone cold silence as a reply.

It is obvious that WvW is in a serious state of decline and from what most people can tell, no one responsible for the game gives a kitten about it. This is frustrating for those who enjoy the game format and see the great potential that it holds.

That is all.

Mark Katzbach.9084:

Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054:

Arenanet Forum Main Page:

Be heard! Seek wisdom! Join a conversation with fellow adventurers, or start your own..

I was heard, and the wisdom I required was I was told to be quiet.

Joining a conversation and bumping long-dead threads with developer posts in them as an attention-seeking tactic are two entirely different things. A few people decided to start digging through the forum and bumping old topics, not to contribute to conversations there or post new and insightful comments to breathe new life into the topic, but to be disruptive and to try and “prove a point”. Since asking nicely rarely seems to work with the people engaging in this behavior, I made the sticky post explicitly telling everybody to stop, under threat of infraction, suspension and ultimately banning. If there’s a topic you actually wish to discuss, then please open a thread (if an active one does not currently exist) and do so. This is not a new limitation on what you can talk about, just a request to stop the disruptive necroposting.

I understand your frustrations and desire to hear from developers about what’s under development, I really do. However, as I said in the other thread I posted in today, we are unable to comment on features under development until they reach a state where we, as a company, are comfortable talking about them. So, when you ask “are you working on x” or “what’s the status of y”, we can’t comment.

Being disruptive on the forums (in old or new threads), making rude or demanding posts and posting comments like “there is no WvW team anymore” are hardly an endearing method that encourages our developers to post more. I would ask that you take this into consideration when posting as well.

Again I can assure you, the developers are reading the forums regularly, even though they don’t have time to post a reply to everything they read. Additionally, as I read these forums probably more than anybody here, I regularly compile reports for the competitive team to make sure they are up to speed on your concerns and desires. Does this mean your every wish will be granted? No, it does not. What it does mean is that the team is regularly being made aware of how the community feels about the game and what features, content, etc. that you like, dislike or want to see in the future. What it also means is that we take note of when you all ask for or suggest a feature that is currently under development, so that down the line, when it’s actually released and a bunch of people clamor to the forums to complain that “nobody asked for this” (you know who you are), we can refer back and be secure in the knowledge that somebody did, in fact, ask for it.

Now, this post has ended up way longer than I intended it to be. I don’t expect what I’ve said here to cause a sudden change in the tone or content of the posts on this forum. What I do expect is your understanding that we’re not just sitting here twiddling our thumbs and I haven’t enacted this rule against necroposting as some sinister method to justify shutting down the WvW forum. WvW is one of the core game types of Guild Wars 2, and as long as we have forums and I have something to say about it, we will have a place for WvW discussion.

You’re now my favorite of the Anet team. Well written, well said, and it feels like a post that I wish could be stickied at the top of every CDI or discussion thread started by you guys. Also, would it be possible to program something that automatically locks a thread after 30 days of no posting in it here on the forums in order to prevent the necroposting?

Hi guys I’m back after a nice holiday for necroing all those posts

Oh dear, what have I done?! A red post demanding we stop highlighting things they said they were working on but none of them coming to light, except account bound WXP.

But you know what, what I believe is the most concerning thing is that after making this threat, a whole load of WvW players have voiced their own concerns; not only about the game, but the response by Mark and the attitude taken. And Mark and the rest of the moderators have gone quiet yet again!

What will it take to get another response from them?!

DevilishLyx.2340:

What will it take to get another response from them?!

A birthday party complete with people in costume looking like the races of GW2.

RyuDragnier.9476:

DevilishLyx.2340:

What will it take to get another response from them?!

A birthday party complete with people in costume looking like the races of GW2.

Only LARP and Cosplay do things like that. The majority of us aren’t in those groups, but rather are in the various styles of PvP.

Why dont they auto lock all threads older than 30 days if they dont want us to post in them? This is beyond stupid.

Malediktus.9250:

Why dont they auto lock all threads older than 30 days if they dont want us to post in them? This is beyond stupid.

Might as well just lock all threads whenever they pop up, since nothing will go anywhere without dev comments(and we all know those aren’t going to come ever again).

Malediktus.9250:

Why dont they auto lock all threads older than 30 days if they dont want us to post in them? This is beyond stupid.

I would assume because they thought people were mature enough to not necro threads of the reason of necroing them?

It is not really that hard to not necro a thread. You are required to know the rules of the forums after all.

lordkrall.7241:

Malediktus.9250:

Why dont they auto lock all threads older than 30 days if they dont want us to post in them? This is beyond stupid.

I would assume because they thought people were mature enough to not necro threads of the reason of necroing them?

It is not really that hard to not necro a thread. You are required to know the rules of the forums after all.

This is also why we no longer require libraries nor public discussion of ideas dated older than 30 days.

pdavis.8031:

Not my rules of ethics, ArenaNets Code of Conduct that users agree to when using the forums.
“•Do not spam. This includes bumping threads or making posts that lack content.”

No i´am sorry but no,

he wrote in his initial post

Due to the rash of necroposting on this subforum, anybody caught posting in a dead thread will be subject to infractions and possible suspensions from this point forward

This tells nothing about the lack of content. It just says if you post something in an old thread you will get infracted.

Don´t you get what this is all about ? They could have easily decided that they auto close old threads without any drama or the need to threaten people. But this is not what they want, what they want is to make people uncertain whether they can post or not and many won´t because they don´t want infractions. Goal achieved, less posts, less complaints, Anet happy.

This is just a lousy attempt to shut people up.

In general providers of forums want to keep information about one topic in one place, for better readability and to keep the boards clean. Anet wants the exact opposite. Hey if a thread about ta topic is 30 day old, please open another thread about the same topic and if that gets thirty days old, rinse repeat. This make absolutely no sense if you want to keep your users informed and information to be accessible. But if you want what Anet wants it makes perfect sense.

lordkrall.7241:

Malediktus.9250:

Why dont they auto lock all threads older than 30 days if they dont want us to post in them? This is beyond stupid.

I would assume because they thought people were mature enough to not necro threads of the reason of necroing them?

It is not really that hard to not necro a thread. You are required to know the rules of the forums after all.

there is nothing particularly immature about necroing threads, there are many sites that prefer necro threads. Its really just a bad word for no good reason. Necro-ing as a bad thing, is when the thread is no longer relevant

http://www.penciljack.com/forum/showthread.php?89443-The-Artists-of-PencilJack-Shining-Moments/page82&s=e9cd33994800b8db80b92c468e71cbe9

notice how before the last post, it had been 3 months before someone commented.

truth is, there is nothing intrinsicly wrong with necro threads, ANet is just mad right at this specific case for whatever reason, in fact i dont even know if there is anything in the official forum rules, about necroing at all. I just re read the forum code of conduct and as of today 8/3/2014 i see nothing mentioning necro posts at all, in fact it sort of suggests you are supposed to look for old threads and post in pre existing threads.

So dont make this about being mature, or some sort of obvious rule of thumb. Its really not. Its anet’s forum, they can set whatever rules they like, but this was not one of them, it was probably never intended, and thats probably why they didnt create the forum to auto archive old threads, For all we know there is still a archive older than check mark in forum software for a high level admins. It really is not high level tech, in fact they could probably make a couple lines of code in SQL to make it impossible even now.

Of course, necroing threads with the purpose of actually adding something to the thread is one thing, but many of the necros here have simply been to bump the thread up, without adding anything.
And it is simply easier to forbid it altogether than having to deal with the people feeling the mods taking wrong action when locking some of the threads.

lordkrall.7241:

Of course, necroing threads with the purpose of actually adding something to the thread is one thing, but many of the necros here have simply been to bump the thread up, without adding anything.
And it is simply easier to forbid it altogether than having to deal with the people feeling the mods taking wrong action when locking some of the threads.

thread bumping is against the rules, so they could use that rule. The problem is, it isnt hard to make relevant posts on any topic. Still, if the post is relevant, then there is no logical reason that it should be bannable.

Anyhow they changed their rule for this sub forum for whatever reason, which is their perogative, im just saying dont act like this is really a universal truth, or something they couldnt handle via software if they chose.

phys.7689:

For all we know there is still a archive older than check mark in forum software for a high level admins. It really is not high level tech, in fact they could probably make a couple lines of code in SQL to make it impossible even now.

Spot on. Auto-close on a time interval is absolutely a common feature of forum software. It went into Discourse.org before they hit version 1.0. It’s always possible and relatively easy, when you can code for it server-side.

ANet is using a white-label version of some limited distribution forum software that another company made for themselves, and I can’t remember that other company right now. It’s a B2B license, though. They could get it done.

This is a special case middle-finger sort of rule, no doubt.