Guild Wars 2

insanemaniac.2456:

why was this post infracted.

Because I put ANet in title, apparently that’s not allowed.

EnRohbi.2187:

I have no sympathy for this.
If you cannot bother to spare a couple people per map to run around and keep tabs on enemy forces or check on white swords, you don’t deserve to keep your territory.

Stop expecting the game mechanics to tell you where the real threat is and adapt.

Pre-patch orange swords meant send out a group to attack/slow down the invaders. Pre-patch white swords meant send out a scout. As often as not it would be two npc’s fighting. Occasionally it would be a group of 20+ using 3 or 4 catas to tear down a wall, which still takes a few minutes against reinforced walls. Sometimes this is just enough time for an adequate defense to be mounted.

Post-patch white swords could mean just about anything. That same 20+ group doesn’t need to restrict themselves to just a few catas at range, they can now tear down that same reinforced wall in a fraction of the time & still not cause orange swords. Scouting will not give enough warning to respond, at least when it comes to towers.

This patch will make the already poorly rewarded, thankless & expensive job of defending even more difficult. On a positive note I do like the fix to Righteous Indignation though.

EnRohbi.2187:

You get white swords for that purpose.
Literally almost the exact same mechanic as “if you get close to a keep an alarm will sound”.

The problem is that there’s no distinction between a 10-golem attack, a 20 person attack or quaggans.

One thing we’ve seen is that you can simply keep everything on the map marked as “under attack” by having a couple thieves scoot around and knock on doors. They’re virtually impossible to stop, it will stop waypoints from being used and you never know where the real attack is.

Again, in DAOC you would always know where the real attack was. It’s counter-productive to hide it. Sieges with no enemies are just bad, boring PvE but some people want points more than good gameplay.

EnRohbi.2187:

Daemonne.5018:

titanlectro.5029:

I’m surprised how many idealists and wishful thinkers there are in this debate. Remember that this is a video game.

Wrong question: What do I want this change to do?
Another wrong question: What is this change intended to do?

Right question: How will people abuse this?

Whether or not you are asking the right question now, you will all be on the same page within the week, when abusing this becomes the meta.

This is the forums, the Ideal place for ideas and suggestions.

They have a Suggestions subforum for precisely that purpose.
So, if you wanna get technical, THIS isn’t the ideal place for this.

When the Dev’s see that the suggestions become many then I’m sure they will move the thread to the appropriate forum.

insanemaniac.2456:

EnRohbi.2187:

Slamz.5376:

EnRohbi.2187:

I have no sympathy for this.
If you cannot bother to spare a couple people per map to run around and keep tabs on enemy forces or check on white swords, you don’t deserve to keep your territory.

Stop expecting the game mechanics to tell you where the real threat is and adapt.

Players should not be relegated to tasks that are boring.

Game mechanics should remove boring behavior, not make it more necessary. The devs have said in the past that they used DAOC as a model — well in DAOC just getting near a keep would cause an automatic alarm to sound. The enemy would know what keep you are at and with roughly what size group. The point was to trigger big fights.

Arenanet encouraging silent keep takes is the opposite of what DAOC did and makes no sense.

You get white swords for that purpose.
Literally almost the exact same mechanic as “if you get close to a keep an alarm will sound”.

One scout can keep an eye on an entire portion of the map, not just one keep or tower. Maps are small. It is an ideal job for a ROAMER who would be doing pretty much the exact same thing anyway.

against an organized group, you may not have an alarm until 3 rams are bashing at your gate or 5 catas tearing down your wall because you have to actually hit the gate/wall before anything triggers

literally almost the same is not the same

… Against an organized group, that is exactly how it worked pre-patch. What’s your point?

Slamz.5376:

EnRohbi.2187:

You get white swords for that purpose.
Literally almost the exact same mechanic as “if you get close to a keep an alarm will sound”.

The problem is that there’s no distinction between a 10-golem attack, a 20 person attack or quaggans.

One thing we’ve seen is that you can simply keep everything on the map marked as “under attack” by having a couple thieves scoot around and knock on doors. They’re virtually impossible to stop, it will stop waypoints from being used and you never know where the real attack is.

Again, in DAOC you would always know where the real attack was. It’s counter-productive to hide it. Sieges with no enemies are just bad, boring PvE but some people want points more than good gameplay.

This isn’t DaoC,
DaoC already exists, if you’d like to go play a game that IS DaoC.

Using thieves to keep everything contested is not a new tactic.

Anet is putting a purpose out there for scouts and small groups so the entire map can’t just zerg around and rely on orange swords to tell them when they need to redirect.
If karma-training around WvW is all you want to do, then that’s too bad for you.

EnRohbi.2187:

insanemaniac.2456:

EnRohbi.2187:

Slamz.5376:

EnRohbi.2187:

I have no sympathy for this.
If you cannot bother to spare a couple people per map to run around and keep tabs on enemy forces or check on white swords, you don’t deserve to keep your territory.

Stop expecting the game mechanics to tell you where the real threat is and adapt.

Players should not be relegated to tasks that are boring.

Game mechanics should remove boring behavior, not make it more necessary. The devs have said in the past that they used DAOC as a model — well in DAOC just getting near a keep would cause an automatic alarm to sound. The enemy would know what keep you are at and with roughly what size group. The point was to trigger big fights.

Arenanet encouraging silent keep takes is the opposite of what DAOC did and makes no sense.

You get white swords for that purpose.
Literally almost the exact same mechanic as “if you get close to a keep an alarm will sound”.

One scout can keep an eye on an entire portion of the map, not just one keep or tower. Maps are small. It is an ideal job for a ROAMER who would be doing pretty much the exact same thing anyway.

against an organized group, you may not have an alarm until 3 rams are bashing at your gate or 5 catas tearing down your wall because you have to actually hit the gate/wall before anything triggers

literally almost the same is not the same

… Against an organized group, that is exactly how it worked pre-patch. What’s your point?

Before an organized group was limited to a small number hitting the door before orange swords went up. Often a random pug or two that was tagging along (and not in TS) would get a little excited and put swords up. Now you can have 20 people ripping through a gate like butter, account for the stray pug and still not put up orange swords. The zerg can flip structures relatively silently now faster than ever. If they’re smart enough to have thieves etc. put whites on everything at the same time it becomes even easier to abuse the system. The zerg is all powerful now. All hail the zerg.

I almost don’t want to say this here, but you can do a lot now without even triggering white swords (only gate/wall hits count).

You can kill all the cannons, oil, guards, defensive siege, and drop/build all the siege you want, without triggering white swords. By the time the white swords go up, it is already too late.

titanlectro.5029:

I almost don’t want to say this here, but you can do a lot now without even triggering white swords (only gate/wall hits count).

You can kill all the cannons, oil, guards, defensive siege, and drop/build all the siege you want, without triggering white swords. By the time the white swords go up, it is already too late.

Even the guards?

Personally I don’t really care how many people it takes to pop orange xswords or if they exist at all, as far as I’m concerned if they removed them entirely it would have been just as fine. I wasn’t “born” in tier1, I’m not in tier1 now and I’ve played everywhere from bottom tier to tier 2 so far, so I’m decently informed about the metagame across tiers.
Here’s a personal example of why it doesn’t really matter as much as some people make it out to be: Waaaay before this change, I’ve solo-broken both outer and inner walls of a keep to then cap it with 3 more ppl called in over mapchat and white swords were up all the time. Nobody bothered to check, so the keep was lost.
Now, instead of up to 4 guys attacking your keep, it will be up to 24, white swords will still pop, you will still have a window of time to check on it and call the nearest group/zerg (whatever you prefer to call it) to come and defend.

I don’t see this as changing the reality of ninja takes; they occurred before this change and they will continue to occur (arguably more often now and at a faster pace), which means less time for defenders (that are possibly zerging around halfway across the map) to react. Even before this change you could, for example, take 25 people, build 5 catas outside hills walls and take down both outer and inner walls really fast without any orange swords, then proceed to cap. This change makes this kind of tactic viable through doors as well. (such a massive change, wow!)
The difference this should lead to is that now you won’t afford to have your entire map population running mindlessly in one mega-blob (for higher tiers) or mini-blob (for lower tier) from point to point following the orange indicators on a map. You will have to either:
a) leave scouts and regroup to defend where needed;
b) split your <insert size here> blob/zerg into 2 or more <insert smaller size here> group to cover designated areas of the map.

Sure, the effect of this change is different as you move up and down the tiers, but relying on orange swords meant offering the enemy opportunities for ninja takes as much before as it does now:
In a lower tier, chances are you don’t have enough people to run a big zerg during off-peak anyway and ideally you would be scouting keeps and holding/recapping camps and calling people in from all over to defend when needed (at least that’s how we used to keep a decent ppt over night across all maps in lower tiers with like 20-30 ppl online total). If you have less than 25 people yourself, you will be able to “ninja” a keep at a decent rate now from an enemy less adapted to change, instead of wasting an hour solo-ramming/catapulting 2 doors/walls. If you’re on the outmanned side and your enemy is running a big zerg instead of spreading out, you can confuse them more easily by triggering white swords on multiple objectives while you’re at it, increasing your chances of success as they run between all objectives to check.
On the other hand, in the higher tiers this cripples the map-wide blob tactic which relied on running your entire map population between objectives marked with orange swords thus overwhelming any enemy that didn’t want to blob the entire map up.

I don’t know what kind of scouts your servers have, but you shouldn’t need more than one person per objective to ensure a timely call of attacks (and I don’t mean the idle lazy type), maybe 2 for SM and garrisons. Just improve your communication within and across maps and you will do just as well, if not better. Make it even more simple: just treat white swords as if they were orange swords. (don’t forget to kill the quaggan node )

VOLKON.1290:

titanlectro.5029:

I almost don’t want to say this here, but you can do a lot now without even triggering white swords (only gate/wall hits count).

You can kill all the cannons, oil, guards, defensive siege, and drop/build all the siege you want, without triggering white swords. By the time the white swords go up, it is already too late.

Even the guards?

guards have never triggered white swords at towers

at camps they do

VOLKON.1290:

titanlectro.5029:

I almost don’t want to say this here, but you can do a lot now without even triggering white swords (only gate/wall hits count).

You can kill all the cannons, oil, guards, defensive siege, and drop/build all the siege you want, without triggering white swords. By the time the white swords go up, it is already too late.

Even the guards?

Yup, blew my mind away too.

Supply camps trigger from the guards, but not towers or keeps. Last night, my guild did this several times. One time, we even took a garrison this way.

Give it a week, and team/say chat will be filled with:
“Don’t attack the door”
“Be careful with that aoe, pull the guards back”
“Don’t use the rams until they are all finished”
“Some noob hit the door!”

Ascii.9726:

Okaishi.8320:

If you’ve got so few people, it has little to do with tactics. Sure, you can send one person to stand guard (idle) at every tower and keep, but it’s not fun and you’re not playing WvW for something like that. I don’t mind them changing the amount of people that cause orange swords, but 25 is just too high. In my opinion, 10 or 15 would have been way better and requires more tactical play. Because with the limit at 25 you often don’t even have to worry about causing orange swords on the map.

If you have too few people, either so does your opponent making the whole argument of ninjaing invalid as you can do the exact same thing or the enemy is a stacked server and notification or not you’ll be out-manned and it will make minimal difference.

If you check this weeks rankings you see lopsided match-ups almost in every tier.
I would argue that in most cases it’s not skill and tactics but more numbers on the field. The changes made to wvw lately seems to give the team with more numbers
the advantage. The current one with the orange swords or the way breakouts have been implemented. All those changes cater more to the upper 3 tiers and going to make things worse for the rest. I can see people not fortifying structures anymore
because it is way easier now to get them without any resistance. If teams are even matched in a tier than it might be different. But if you look at the rankings I sure doubt that this is the case.

I like things that encourage smaller groups, scouting, and playing strategically. I dislike things that have players reacting to a Skale attacking a camp guard the same way that you’d have to react to a swarm of 24 invaders at the same camp. Less information does not make the game better, and there is a better way to approach this.

Someone suggested orange / red swords as a difference between whether there are fewer / more invaders at a location. I think that’s a decent idea. I don’t know what the best solution to the problem is, but I personally don’t think hiding information from players and forcing players to do things they don’t enjoy doing is the way to do it. WvW should encourage first and foremost fighting against other players and strategizing against them, not sitting around in anticipation.

Either way, I’ll play with what we’ve been given, and while this change has favored me some of the time, it has also favored the opponent some of the time. That’s just how it goes.

EnRohbi.2187:

If karma-training around WvW is all you want to do, then that’s too bad for you.

On the contrary, this new patch makes karma-training much easier.

In fact, the entire point of it is to allow smaller karma trains to flip more things with less opposition.

I appreciate that you were trying to troll but you are dead wrong in your assessment. If you want to discourage karma-trains, you need to enable defense. This patch made defense require more effort, even though it was already the least rewarding, most boring job in the game.

I think 10 would be a much better number. I get that they’re trying to make small mans able to do whatever so they roam in those numbers, but that’s discounting servers/groups that can just tell people to not attack. In reality, that orange swords is a limiter on something more sinister, which is a golem and scouting meta.

Remove swords all together IMHO. Us small group roamers need more anti Zerg game mechanics in WvW

Slamz.5376:

EnRohbi.2187:

If karma-training around WvW is all you want to do, then that’s too bad for you.

On the contrary, this new patch makes karma-training much easier.

In fact, the entire point of it is to allow smaller karma trains to flip more things with less opposition.

I appreciate that you were trying to troll but you are dead wrong in your assessment. If you want to discourage karma-trains, you need to enable defense. This patch made defense require more effort, even though it was already the least rewarding, most boring job in the game.

I appreciate that you think everyone who disagrees with you is a troll, but you are dead wrong in your assessment.

It’s nice that that’s what you resort to first though.

MOST STUPID IDEA OF THE YEAR 2013!!!! Indeed!

It’s clear some guilds have been relying too much on battle markers

Let’s take this example :
High tier and 70 people in map, put 10-15 people as scouts, you have sitll 55-60 left, you can make 3 zerg of 25 or less or just make 1 big blob, and defending with them is not a problem if 70 enemies attack
Middle tier: 40 people in map: put 10 as scouts, 30 left for zerg , 40-50 people attack, still bearable
Lower tier: 20-25 people: put 10 as scouts, 15 left for zerg. now if 25-30 people attack, thos e15 people will relaly have to be strong to be able to kill the enemies

Now who do you think it will affect more and who will it affect less ?

Barab.9016:

Remove swords all together IMHO. Us small group roamers need more anti Zerg game mechanics in WvW

Might as well do away with NPC’s while you are at it. The NPC’s are part of the tower/keep/camp defense mechanism. Why shouldn’t you be alerted when a enemy group is attacking that objective? What other purpose do the NPC’s serve? They sure don’t slow you down much.

It’s a good dynamic. And it seems the only ones who are affected are larger groups. Which is fine. Brainless zerging shouldn’t be the end all be all strategy.

Ilesyt.7084:

Let’s take this example :
High tier and 70 people in map, put 10-15 people as scouts, you have sitll 55-60 left, you can make 3 zerg of 25 or less or just make 1 big blob, and defending with them is not a problem if 70 enemies attack
Middle tier: 40 people in map: put 10 as scouts, 30 left for zerg , 40-50 people attack, still bearable
Lower tier: 20-25 people: put 10 as scouts, 15 left for zerg. now if 25-30 people attack, thos e15 people will relaly have to be strong to be able to kill the enemies

Now who do you think it will affect more and who will it affect less ?

It affects everyone, but if you’re a low pop vs. a higher pop server it becomes more and more brutal. The chance to rally and respond is greatly diminished.

imo the orange swords before was to low and needed to be higher but 25 is too high it should of been raised only to about 10. As it is now sending a scout to every flagged location is tedious and boring for the scout not to mention pretty pointless anyways as by time they get there it will already be to late and even if it is not 1 vs 20 is a lost fight and by time they have called for reinforcements and they get there it will be to late.

What they should of done was added a warning system for claimed keeps/towers/camps for the guild that claimed them before changing the orange swords, just a red text msg every 5mins from the structure was 1st tagged saying YOUR STRUCTHURE IS UNDER ATTACK would of ment that you would at least had a chance to check it out before it was too late.

I would happily upgrade keeps and towers before but i wont be doing it any more as it would just be a waste of gold.

titanlectro.5029:

I’m surprised how many idealists and wishful thinkers there are in this debate. Remember that this is a video game.

Wrong question: What do I want this change to do?
Another wrong question: What is this change intended to do?

Right question: How will people abuse this?

Whether or not you are asking the right question now, you will all be on the same page within the week, when abusing this becomes the meta.

Good becuase the meta needed to change. Now it will be is this an organized Zerg (lol) using a small band to knock down door or is it really a small group? You won’t know unless you send a scout or ask a havoc group to go look.

Anyway you look at it, this will cause people to break off the Zerg to do stuff. Scout or claim who cares as long as it splits forces and makes the map more active and not just three giant zergs.

EnRohbi.2187:

It’s nice that that’s what you resort to first though.

Nevertheless, you agree with me that this change makes karma-trains even easier and therefore more profitable.

If you are a karma farmer, this patch is for you. If you like big fights and robust defenses rather than karma trains then you want more visibility into where the enemy is at, not less.

Personally I’d like to see “heat maps”, similar to Planetside 2. Divide the map into squares and color them based on the number of enemies in the square.

Ilesyt.7084:

Let’s take this example :
High tier and 70 people in map, put 10-15 people as scouts, you have sitll 55-60 left, you can make 3 zerg of 25 or less or just make 1 big blob, and defending with them is not a problem if 70 enemies attack
Middle tier: 40 people in map: put 10 as scouts, 30 left for zerg , 40-50 people attack, still bearable
Lower tier: 20-25 people: put 10 as scouts, 15 left for zerg. now if 25-30 people attack, thos e15 people will relaly have to be strong to be able to kill the enemies

Now who do you think it will affect more and who will it affect less ?

Indeed. Top tier you can easily find 10 out of 75 people to scout. You also probably have a lot more organization.

But even as far down as middle tier (where you don’t even have 40 on a map at many hours of the day) you aren’t going to find 1 out of 4 people that want to scout, or even have the right profession to scout.

Have to remember in lower tiers at low map population times, scouting could very well mean sitting in a keep or around it, for hours at a time. It’s not so bad higher up because there are more constant fights on all maps. At the least you’ll see small teams moving around and be able to call out information. Lower down, you might see no one for hours.

In tier 3 right now, there is one borderland that has not seen virtually any fighting since the weekend. But technically they should really have 5-10 scouts there just in case the other two factions decide to abandon their own defense and rush a zerg over there. But no one wants to do this. If you only have 2 hours to play WvW, are you going to spend it sitting on a tower watching the rabbits jump in a circle? That means no loot, no rewards, not even defending rewards. This is not exciting gameplay.

Slamz.5376:

EnRohbi.2187:

It’s nice that that’s what you resort to first though.

Nevertheless, you agree with me that this change makes karma-trains even easier and therefore more profitable.

If you are a karma farmer, this patch is for you. If you like big fights and robust defenses rather than karma trains then you want more visibility into where the enemy is at, not less.

Personally I’d like to see “heat maps”, similar to Planetside 2. Divide the map into squares and color them based on the number of enemies in the square.

I don’t agree with you.
Don’t put words in my mouth, you need to learn how this “conversation” thing works.
I told you I don’t agree with you, and I never said otherwise, what kind of assumption is that that I’ve changed my mind?

I like organized defenses.
Not the zerg waiting to see orange on the map and rerouting.
I like scouts, I like actually having to stay and defend a piece of territory instead of leaving it and letting the lazy game mechanics tell you when to come back.

If you don’t have the manpower to defend your keeps, you are overextending your forces and don’t deserve to keep them all. And with this patch, you won’t get to.
This will destroy unorganized servers if they don’t learn to adapt, and I am personally very happy about that.

Adapt or lose in wvw.
Simple as that,
End of discussion.

Either way fair play to anet for this lastest change great move by them to throw this gem in there:) But i bet like myself alot of wvws are not that stupid!wvw needs some serious love and anet are doing everything they can to keep people interested till they have an idea of what to do!!!!!

I like this change. Scouting is an underrated contribution to WvW. I hope they do away with swords altogether so that sneak attacks are possible and scouting becomes priority.

EnRohbi.2187:

I like organized defenses.
Not the zerg waiting to see orange on the map and rerouting.
I like scouts, I like actually having to stay and defend a piece of territory instead of leaving it and letting the lazy game mechanics tell you when to come back.

Everyone likes scouts.

Few, if any, like BEING scouts. I’ve spent more than my fair share of time playing scout/defender and the result is I have less money, less loot and fewer badges than most anyone else who plays as much as I do. Scout/defenders will be the ones getting screwed when new WvW rewards come out in March and we find our pockets emptier than most other people’s. If you want to propose solutions to that problem, let’s hear it. My solution is to automate scouting so that human players don’t have to get suckered into doing it.

End of discussion.

Oh well nice chatting with you! Come on back if you have any more ideas!

Slamz.5376:

EnRohbi.2187:

I like organized defenses.
Not the zerg waiting to see orange on the map and rerouting.
I like scouts, I like actually having to stay and defend a piece of territory instead of leaving it and letting the lazy game mechanics tell you when to come back.

Everyone likes scouts.

Few, if any, like BEING scouts. I’ve spent more than my fair share of time playing scout/defender and the result is I have less money, less loot and fewer badges than most anyone else who plays as much as I do. Scout/defenders will be the ones getting screwed when new WvW rewards come out in March and we find our pockets emptier than most other people’s. If you want to propose solutions to that problem, let’s hear it. My solution is to automate scouting so that human players don’t have to get suckered into doing it.

End of discussion.

Oh well nice chatting with you! Come on back if you have any more ideas!

Thieves, DD Eles, and Mesmers are really common for roaming classes.
If your server doesn’t have any of those who are solo in wvw already, then you’re going to have a really hard time.

All they have to do is, instead of roaming in any random direction, roam around the territory they’re SCOUTING.

Problem solved,
Scout organized.

If the entire server is full of zergers who don’t want to do anything but run around in a big conglomeration of noobs, then this patch is going to hurt you, and it should.
Anet is finally promoting organized play by punishing the mindless bads for being bad.

Half the players roaming aren’t out there to scout, but to fight 1v1s, gank people, or find small scale engagements, they could care less where the zerg is going, what the score is either, and probably aren’t going to call out every time they see more than 5 people, let alone follow them.

Pendragon.8735:

Half the players roaming aren’t out there to scout, but to fight 1v1s, gank people, or find small scale engagements, they could care less where the zerg is going, what the score is either, and probably aren’t going to call out every time they see more than 5 people, let alone follow them.

That really isn’t Anet’s problem to deal with, or mine.
It is your server’s problem to deal with. Get them to play ball or find someone else who will. If they’re too full of themselves to toss a message in /t when they see a sizeable enemy force while they do their 1v1, ganking and roaming, then that sounds like a personal problem to me. Not a problem with the game.

As I’ve been saying, if you don’t adapt you are not going to fair well.

Until enough don’t like it and complain and it gets changed again.

Pendragon.8735:

Until enough don’t like it and complain and it gets changed again.

Every change Anet has made since the day they’ve announced GW2 has had haters.
Could probably count the amount of times they’ve actually reverted a change on one hand.

They are well aware of the concept of a Vocal Minority.
Other players in this game don’t seem to realize though, that the people complaining on the forums represent less than 1% of their playerbase (I’m estimating, if the only argument against me you have is demanding proof for this number I will assume you’ve forfeit the actual conversation) and primarily most people only come to the forums if they have a problem.

If they’re going to force us to scout, let us do it in style.

I disagree.

I think the new numbers enhances things.

It’ll give good reason to station actually persons at strategic locations for intelligence reports. (allow players to build mini fortifications away from towers/keeps/camps; once they leave the fortification for more than 60 seconds, it goes “poof”)

It’ll give a good reason to actually stage defenses (defnsive sige) and MAN those defenses. (rewards for defending need to be dramatcally increased; you should get credit for defending for more things than repairing a wall/gate and killing an invader. You should get credit for building siege or using siege against attackers at long range)

It’ll give good reason for there to be more commanders. (all commanders should be given a chat channel for better communications for those following or attempting to follow that commander)

Nnekk.5806:

It’ll give good reason for there to be more commanders. (all commanders should be given a chat channel for better communications for those following or attempting to follow that commander)

Like squad chat?

I personally think that 25 is too high of a limit, since an organize 10 man team can very quickly destroy towers and keeps. But overall, I like the change. I didn’t find the swords all that helpful since most of the fighting happened in very predictable spots and zergs often followed predictable patterns. If you lost a supply camp near a tower, expect the tower to quickly be attacked as well. Plus, if they did a surprise attack on one of our interior towers and manage to flip it, it wasn’t really a big deal since we could just treb it to death from nearby towers. I find that with the constant flipping of supply camps and need for resupplying you will always have scouts moving through areas, especially on the edges of your territory.

I think the only people really hurt by the change are the top servers per tier that quickly capture all of Eternal Battlegrounds and then manage to hold it for the entire match-up with heavy defensive siege equipment, the single entry choke-point, and coordination with the combat swords to quickly shut-down any resistance outside of the choke point.

The whole idea behind GW2 is to have fun. Being forced to sit in your own tower or keep because some thieves are putting white X’s on everything you own so you never know where to look… that isn’t fun. With 5 people required for orange you had a little bit of time luxury to check something out, but 20 – 25 can melt a door faster than you can run from “X” to “X”.

EnRohbi.2187:

Nnekk.5806:

It’ll give good reason for there to be more commanders. (all commanders should be given a chat channel for better communications for those following or attempting to follow that commander)

Like squad chat?

No, because that would require people to know about and acutally use the “join squad” function and it doesn’t allow for two-way communications.

I want another chat tab that allows for the commander to openly communicate with only those that are interested in communicating with them. Sort of a “Team Nnekk” channel, if you will.

The whole argument is dancing around the fact that 25 mans were already not putting up orange swords by virtue of not being idiots. However, the 5 limit was a golem meta inhibitor. It was effectively only in place to show unorganized zergs and when they were using more than x number of golems.

The increase to 25 is a gigantic buff to the golem meta. The only real change, since organized zergs still won’t put up swords even if they’re 50 strong, is that the golem buffer they have before orange swords just went up to an insane number.

I feel like anet isn’t paying attention to the stupid golem game that requires stationary scouts, which is just not fun. Lower it from 25.

VOLKON.1290:

The whole idea behind GW2 is to have fun. Being forced to sit in your own tower or keep because some thieves are putting white X’s on everything you own so you never know where to look… that isn’t fun. With 5 people required for orange you had a little bit of time luxury to check something out, but 20 – 25 can melt a door faster than you can run from “X” to “X”.

Yeah it might work if one person could no longer contest. 3 would probably be a good minimum number since it takes that many to put up a ram. If 2 want to make runs and keep the guards busy more power to them. Or maybe pop the silver if a combat or gate is being hit for over a minute in that case of less than 3.

EnRohbi.2187:

Pendragon.8735:

Until enough don’t like it and complain and it gets changed again.

Every change Anet has made since the day they’ve announced GW2 has had haters.
Could probably count the amount of times they’ve actually reverted a change on one hand.

They are well aware of the concept of a Vocal Minority.
Other players in this game don’t seem to realize though, that the people complaining on the forums represent less than 1% of their playerbase (I’m estimating, if the only argument against me you have is demanding proof for this number I will assume you’ve forfeit the actual conversation) and primarily most people only come to the forums if they have a problem.

This change has been in effect for one day, I think its a bit early to be declaring what side is the minority. The problems were easy to see coming when it was announced, certainly for lower tiers, which maybe you don’t care about, but we’ll see how its greeted as more time passes.

Maybe you will be right and a whole generation of selfless server loving sentries will pop up all over WvW.

VOLKON.1290:

The whole idea behind GW2 is to have fun. Being forced to sit in your own tower or keep because some thieves are putting white X’s on everything you own so you never know where to look… that isn’t fun. With 5 people required for orange you had a little bit of time luxury to check something out, but 20 – 25 can melt a door faster than you can run from “X” to “X”.

Why should defenders be rewarded for being lazy. If someone puts in the effort for subterfuge. They should be rewarded for their time.

Ninein.4782:

VOLKON.1290:

The whole idea behind GW2 is to have fun. Being forced to sit in your own tower or keep because some thieves are putting white X’s on everything you own so you never know where to look… that isn’t fun. With 5 people required for orange you had a little bit of time luxury to check something out, but 20 – 25 can melt a door faster than you can run from “X” to “X”.

Why should defenders be rewarded for being lazy. If someone puts in the effort for subterfuge. They should be rewarded for their time.

What are you even babbling about? Characters only run so fast. If there are a few structures with swords it used to be a viable option for one person to watch multiple structures when you see white swords. Now it isn’t… 20+ people can rip through a gate faster than you can run somewhere to check it then muster forces as needed.

It will take more work to hold onto a keep/tower. You can’t just blob and win. Small group of 20 people are now a force to be reckoned with.

everything gets ninja’d a lot easier.